Putin’s forces trying to ‘bypass and infiltrate’ frontline city & was Epstein's ‘sex empire’ a Russian honeytrap?

Summary

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Ukraine: The Latest — Putin’s Forces Trying to ‘Bypass and Infiltrate’ Frontline City & Was Epstein's ‘Sex Empire’ a Russian Honeytrap?

Date: February 2, 2026 | Host: Francis Dernley with Dominic Nicholls and Poppy Wood | Podcast: The Telegraph

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Overview

This episode delivers a dual-pronged analysis: first, a comprehensive update on the ongoing war in Ukraine, focusing on Russian military tactics, Russian attacks on civilian targets, and shaky diplomatic efforts regarding ceasefires. Second, it investigates the explosive claims from newly released Jeffrey Epstein documents, probing whether his operations served as a Russian state-sponsored “honeytrap” to acquire kompromat on Western elites.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The ‘Energy Ceasefire’ Myth & Recent Russian Strikes

Timestamp: 03:20–13:00

• Despite talk of an “energy ceasefire,” Russia carried out significant strikes across Ukraine over the weekend, including:
  • Drone attack on a bus of miners near Dnipro, killing 15 (reported as 15 dead, 16 injured, details from Ukrainian officials).
  • Direct drone strike on a Zaporizhzhia maternity hospital, injuring at least 6. Two women were injured during the attack.
• Quote (Dominic Nicholls, 03:40):
  “Strikes were going on against a maternity hospital … a war against life itself.”
• Quote (Ukraine’s Ambassador to the US, via Megan Mobs, paraphrased, 05:00):
  “Indifference is not neutrality. When life-giving places become legitimate targets and the free world shrugs, that is a world Americans have never been safe in.”
• Russian use of Starlink technology on drones greatly extends their range, sparking concerns about depth of attacks.
• Elon Musk responded to appeals from Ukraine, claiming actions have been taken to curtail Russian abuse of Starlink (07:50).
  • Ukrainian MOD introduced a Starlink “white list” to block Russian drones and secure infrastructure.
• Power outages across Ukraine and parts of Moldova, initially feared as cyber-attacks, seem to have been caused by technical failures and extreme cold (11:10).
  • President Zelenskyy confirmed restoration but flagged 200+ buildings in Kyiv still without heating due to cold and Russian strikes (minus 14°C, dropping to minus 22°C overnight at the time).

2. Air Defenses Overstretched & Frontline Update

Timestamp: 13:00–14:30

• Ukrainian air defenses suffer critical shortages of missiles; NASAMS systems sometimes down to just two missiles per launcher (13:40).
• Russia’s escalation in missile and drone attacks deliberately overloads Ukrainian defenses, sometimes using up air defense supplies faster than they can be replenished.
• On the ground: Russian troops are now actively trying to “bypass and infiltrate” the destroyed city of Vovchansk in Kharkiv Oblast. Local official:
  Quote (Viktor Tregobrov, 14:30):
  “The city is completely destroyed. There is no infrastructure to serve as a barrier.”

3. Military & Diplomatic Developments

Timestamp: 14:55–18:00

• Scheduled US–Ukraine–Russia trilateral peace talks postponed after a “surprise meeting” between Russian and US envoys in Florida. Ukraine was not present at these talks.
• Estonian Foreign Minister Margus Sakhna warns of potential “hybrid warfare” by former Russian soldiers in Europe—possibly hundreds of thousands could be deployed after or even before the war's end (16:00).
  • Proposes an EU ban on all former Russian combatants entering.
  • Claims Russia recruited 18,000 foreign mercenaries from 128 countries, 7% of captured Russian troops in Ukraine are foreigners.

4. Russia’s Ongoing Occupation & War Crimes

Timestamp: 18:00–22:00

• New Russian law now requires all children in occupied Ukrainian territories to obtain Russian passports to travel, further complicating escape from occupation.
• Civilian deaths again on the rise: “70% increase” in Ukrainian civilian casualties in 2025 vs. 2023, mostly due to deliberate targeting by Russian drones.
• International law and perceived impunity for Russian forces called into question: Quote (Francis Dernley, 19:50):
  “The erosion of international law is almost certainly having a tangible impact around the world ... more civilians were killed in Ukraine in 2025 than in the two previous years.”

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Special Investigation: Was Epstein’s ‘Sex Empire’ a Russian Honeytrap?

Timestamp: 22:26–38:43

1. Reviewing the Claims & Evidence

With Poppy Wood (Investigative Journalist)

• Over three million new Epstein files released; journalists sifting for revelations regarding his abuse, but now also examining potential espionage connections.
• Key fact: Prior files (released Dec ’25) and latest batch both contain references to Russia, showing more overt ties than to almost any other government except (possibly) the UK.
• Epstein’s direct communication with Kremlin:
  • In 2018, Epstein offered to act as a back-channel between Trump and Russia's FM Sergey Lavrov, emailing a Norwegian PM before the Trump-Putin Helsinki summit (24:40).
  • Quote (Epstein email, 2018, 25:10):
    “It’s not complex. Trump must be seen to get something. It’s that simple.”
• 2011 emails discuss an upcoming meeting with Putin in Russia; 2014 emails suggest plans to meet again (uncertain if it happened due to flight MH17 crisis).

2. Russian Girls, Compromat, and Blackmail

• Epstein appears to have systematically recruited Russian girls for his operations, even emailing government ministers about issues with a Russian woman “blackmailing powerful businessmen” in New York (26:10).
• Quote (Epstein draft email, 26:38):
  “I felt it necessary to contact some friends in the FSB and that she would surely become vragnoroda [enemy of the people] and be dealt with extremely harshly.”
• Numerous receipts for flights suggest “active recruitment” from Russia to the West; also mentions interest in Russian modeling agencies and orchestrating visas (35:04).
  • But the investigation stops short of directly linking these actions to official Kremlin direction.

3. Evaluation of Honeytrap Theory

• Files contain thousands of photos and some “compromising” images but no blockbuster kompromat (e.g., Bill Clinton at pool, Prince Andrew in suggestive poses), plus emails allegedly threatening Bill Gates with claims of relationships with Russian girls (he denies; “completely absurd”).
• Context: Epstein was also closely connected with influential Israelis and UK figures (Ehud Barak, Lord Mandelson), so similar rumors swirl around Mossad involvement.
• Quote (Poppy Wood, 31:02):
  “I think it’s important to say that there might not be an ulterior motive ... it does a bit of an injustice to his victims, suggesting this was directed by a foreign state.”

4. Limitations and Unanswered Questions

• The files are unstructured, with scant metadata—making solid reporting tough. Some photos indicate Epstein in Russia, but there is no complete evidence trail or established records of meetings with top Kremlin officials.
• Quote (Dominic Nicholls, 33:04):
  “Do we know the earliest date that these files go back to? ... the most concrete thing we could find with the FSB is the blackmail suggestion … in 2011.”
• There were more systemic mechanisms for recruiting Russian women—plane tickets, visas, payments—which could suggest an organized operation, but again, intent is ambiguous.
• Reflecting broader context:
  The normalization of Western elites associating with Russian oligarchs and Kremlin officials is “morally reprehensible”; business-as-usual practices with “known crooks” called out (Francis Dernley, 37:20).

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Notable Moments & Quotes

On Russia’s war crimes and international law:

• “Culture shifts when behaviors repeat and we grow so accustomed as to accept them as our new reality.” (Francis Dernley, 20:38)

On the nature of conspiracy and speculation:

• “Once an idea is out there, you can use any information at your fingertips to try and back up your claim … the Epstein saga is a dark tale of a dark man.” (Poppy Wood, 42:16)

On Western responses to Russian diplomatic provocations:

• “Any further action taken by Russia will be considered an escalation and responded to accordingly.” (Dominic Nicholls, 41:47)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Russian strikes, ‘energy ceasefire’ recap: 03:20–13:00
• Air defense shortages, frontline updates: 13:00–14:30
• Diplomacy, hybrid warfare warning: 14:55–18:00
• Occupation, war crimes, and human rights: 18:00–22:00
• Epstein honeytrap theory discussion: 22:26–38:43
• Speculative limits and avoiding conspiracy: 42:16–43:37
• Final thoughts and diplomatic news: 40:30–42:10

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Final Thoughts

• Dominic Nicholls (42:10):
  Britain and Russia’s diplomatic tit-for-tat escalates, with the UK expelling a Russian diplomat, warning further action will be met as escalation.
• Poppy Wood (42:16):
  Stresses the importance of tempering speculation on the Epstein files with rigorous fact-checking—reminding listeners not to let conspiracy fill gaps left by ambiguity.

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For listeners: This episode expertly intertwines Ukraine’s daily reality on the ground—including war crimes and the ongoing hazard of Russian escalation—with the headline-grabbing intrigue of the Epstein files’ Russia connections, parsing fact from sensationalism. It’s a rich, sober assessment for those seeking clarity in turbulent times.

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Transcript

[Poppy Wood]

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[Francis Dernley]

I'm Francis Dernley and this is Ukraine. The latest today as Putin's so called energy ceasefire is reportedly broken once again. We report on another weekend of devastating Russian strikes on Ukraine including an attack that killed 15 miners when drones hit their bus during a shift change near Dnipro and a strike on a maternity hospital in Zaporizhzhia that injured at least six. We then examine mounting claims that convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein was not only close to the Kremlin, but but may have actually acted as a foreign agent on Russia's behalf.

[Dominic Nicholls]

Bravery takes you through the most unimaginable hardships to finally reward you with victory.

[Poppy Wood]

The Russia does not want peace.

[Dominic Nicholls]

If I'm president, I will have that.

[Francis Dernley]

War settled in one day.

[Dominic Nicholls]

24 hours.

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We are with you.

[Dominic Nicholls]

Not just today or tomorrow, but for 100 years.

[Francis Dernley]

Nobody's going to break us.

[Dominic Nicholls]

We are strong. We are Ukrainians.

[Francis Dernley]

It's Monday 2 February, three years and 345 days since the full scale invasion began. And today I'm joined by our Associate editor of Defence, Dominic Nicholls, and our Education editor here at the Telegraph, Poppy Wood. But first, the latest on the military realm with Dom.

[Dominic Nicholls]

So, yeah, with no real idea over the weekend about that so called energy ceasefire, what we did find out was that Russians didn't have time to meet in Abu Dhabi, but they did have time to hit a maternity hospital and a bus carrying minors yesterday. Among other attacks over the weekend, they collectively caused multiple deaths and injuries across the country. So just to zoom in on those two for a moment, around noon on Sunday, Russia struck a maternity hospital, injuring at least six people. Among the injured were two women who were being examined when the Russian attack happened. This comes from local oblast governor Ivan Fedorov. A drone hit the gynecology department of a maternity hospital in Zaporizhzhia, started a fire there. Initially two people had been reported killed. However that's no longer being reported. It says that just quote, unquote, six injured. Zaporizhzhia was then hit again later Sunday afternoon elsewhere in the city. So maybe those two reports have been conflated and that's where the reports of the deaths came from. Regardless, I think that's missing the main point, that strikes were going on against a maternity hospital. Now, Olya Stefanish Naya, who's Ukraine's Ambassador to the United States, a minister we've interviewed in the past in her former post as Deputy Prime Minister for European and Euro Atlantic integration, she said this is a war against life itself. And then commenting before reports were updated to say that we think nobody was killed in that attack. But appealing to US lawmakers and citizens to do more to punish Russia, Megan mobs said if a maternity hospital can be deliberately struck and women seeking care can be killed without consequence, then the line protecting civilians, hospitals and the most basic rules of war has collapsed. Regimes that normalize this kind of violence do not stop at their borders. They export cruelty, coercion and instability. Indifference is not neutrality. When life giving places become legitimate targets and the free world shrugs and that is a world Americans have never been safe in. Now, later Sunday afternoon, a bus full of miners working for Dtec was hit near Tenivka and Dnipropetrovsk Oblast that was hit by four drones during a shift changeover. As you say, Francis, 15 dead. Latest reports 16 injured, according to Ukrainian officials. Foreign Minister Andrei Sibier condemned the strike, stressing the bus was no military target and that the miners were just hard working men returning to their families after their shifts. He he said Russian murderers responsible for this and other atrocities must face justice, calling accountability essential for a just peace. The strike was 50Ks northwest of Percross. That's a long way. It links to reports we've heard of Starlink terminals being used on Russian drones, enabling targeting in much greater depth. Notwithstanding that, and not diminishing that this was murder, the range at which it happened is concerning now connected to that, you'll remember last week we reported how since December last year Russia has been using Starlink terminals to extend the range of a number of drones, including the BM35 strike drones and the cheaper fixed wing Molnir 2 first person view drones. On Friday we said that Ukraine's Defense Minister Mykhailo Fedorov had personally thanked Elon Musk and SpaceX president and chief Operating Officer Grynne Shotwell for their swift response. Having raised this issue, Musk replied on Sunday morning saying looks like the steps we took to stop the unauthorized use of Starlink by Russia and have worked. Let us know if more needs to be done. Mykhailo Fedorov said the steps had achieved real results. I note that Institute for the Study of War reporting today says that Russian mill bloggers are complaining or were complaining yesterday, that Russian drone operations have started to experience signal blocking on Starlink when flying at around 90ks an hour. They say this has caused significant disruptions to Russian Starlink enabled drones. Now the Ukrainian MOD this morning said the government has approved a white list for Starlink terminals. Verified terminals will stay online unverified terminals will be disconnected. This blocks Russian drone use, secures communications and protects energy infrastructure. We are grateful to Elon Musk for his cooperation that helps save lives of civilians. Thank you Starlink and SpaceX. Now then go back a couple of days. Friday there was a very odd this is when we started talking about is there an energy ceasefire, is there not? What does it mean, how long is it going to last, etc. Etc. Something very odd happened to Ukraine's energy grid. Energy Minister Denis Schmihal reported what he calls a cascade shutdown in Ukraine's power grid overnight Friday into Saturday morning following disruptions to transmission lines between Romania and Moldova as well as between western and and central Ukraine. Now a systemic failure in the energy system led to power outages widely across Ukraine, but the reasons were unclear as to what had caused them sources in an energy company and the Cabinet administers. Speaking to Ukrainian media outlet, economists said they didn't know at that time Saturday morning what had caused it. Ukraine's largest private energy company, Detec, reported emergency power shutdowns in Kyiv and the surrounding region throughout Saturday. The Kyiv Metro system was temporarily suspended due to the power outage from about 11am local and the water supply was also cut off. Then Dennis Shmiel added that Kyiv and its surrounding region, as well as central Jitimir Oblast and northeastern Kharkiv Oblast, had special emergency shutdown schedules imposed on them after the chaos triggered automatic protection mechanisms at substations. DTE also reported emergency power cuts in southern Odessa oblast and Dnipro Petrovsk. In the center. Moldova's Energy ministry said on Facebook that a voltage drop had disrupted the country's electrical system, blaming serious problems on Ukraine's electrical system. However, power supply in some locations was quickly restored, they said. But then in his Saturday evening address, President Zelenskyy said the cause of the mass outages. He said they were being investigated, but he suggested it was not brought about by external interference or cyber attack. And he said preliminary information suggests that the mass outages were a result of frozen lines causing automatic shutdowns. Now, this morning, Monday morning, President Zelensky has updated it, he said. As of today, Ukrainian energy workers and repair crews have fully restored the energy system to its pre incident state before Saturday's technical failure. The system is operating stably. However, given the extreme cold weather and the impact of Russian strikes, all challenges remain serious. According to President zelensky, more than 200 buildings in Kyiv are still without heating and that instruction has been given to Ukraine ago regarding part of Odessa region that says brownouts must be adjusted to account for the significant number of homes with electric heating. That is the planned outages I think that refers to. They said the situation with outages remains difficult in Kropvinitsky and the wider region and Cherkasy. Those are both just to the north in the center of the country, pretty much right in the middle of the country to be honest. Also Poltava region about 100 kilometers southwest of Kharkiv, Dnipro in the east, as well as communities along the border with Russia. Everything possible is being done to support people, the statement said. I thank all employees of energy companies, utility services, emergency and repair crews, every business, everyone who is working for people, supporting their community and helping our entire country get through this difficult time. Those were the words President Zelenskyy Temperature right now I checked a little while ago in Kyiv, minus 14 centigrade dropping to minus 22 tonight. And it's very similar numbers in other parts of the country. So over the weekend then strikes did continue to happen. Like I say, this energy ceasefire, whatever it was, didn't seem to really impact much. At least five people were killed overnight Friday, Saturday, 19 others injured. The Air Force said Russia had launched 85 drones of which 64 were brought down overnight Saturday, Sunday, four killed, 21 injured. 14 of 90 drones got through. And then Sunday to Monday, 14 people killed, nearly 40 injured, 170 drones and a ballistic missile fired at the country. Now Yuri Iniat, who's the head of Ukraine's Air Force communications department, speaking in an interview with RBC Ukraine that's been published today, says a shortage of air defense missiles has left some Ukrainian air defense systems empty. He speaks of occasions where there is a serious shortage of air defense missiles. He says, I won't reveal any secrets. For example, that there is a NASAM system that instead of six missiles in the launcher, there are only two. Now NASAMS is the national, or sometimes called Norwegian Advanced Surface to Air Missile System. It's a short to medium range ground based air defense system. Ukraine's air force warns that Russia has adopted a tactic of intensively and simultaneously attacking a single region to overload the air defenders. Mr. Inyat said sometimes our anti aircraft missile systems such as NASAMs or RST, the German system, simply do not have enough time to reload during such massive attacks. He said Russian forces have also begun using ballistic missiles more frequently as only the American Patriot air defense system can get them now on the ground, very minimal movement. Although a spokesperson for Ukraine's Joint forces speaking earlier today said that Russian troops are trying to bypass and infiltrate what's left of Vovchansk in the northeast of Kharkiv Oblast. Viktor Tregobrov said the situation is frankly difficult. Speaking on national tv, he said the city is completely destroyed. There is no infrastructure to serve as a barrier. Now you remember last week we were speaking about that spat at the US embassy in Copenhagen when a number of Danish flags, 44 Danish flags to be precise, were placed in flower planters outside the embassy, each with a name on it. Of the 44 Danish service personnel killed in Afghanistan, they were later removed by Embassy staff. Well, US Ambassador to Denmark Ken Howery, assisted by MC staff on Friday placed 44 new Danish flags in the boxes. Speaking to broadcaster TV2, Ambassador Howie said, I've been away this week. I was in Washington. I participated in meetings between Greenland, Denmark and the United States. I have followed the misunderstanding surrounding the flags I landed today and I'm now placing 44 flags in honor of the Danish soldiers who fell in Afghanistan. I have the greatest respect for the Danish contributions. I know there have been many questions and a great deal of grief surrounding these flags. My team here at the embassy and I have the utmost respect for the Danish contributions. Unfortunately, my team and I were not informed about the flags in advance. Had we been, we would not have removed them. I note also that on Saturday there was a large gathering in Copenhagen in response to Donald Trump's comments about NATO support and Danish support, what have you in Afghanistan and the flag incident. And also finally on Saturday, Danish daily broadsheet newspaper Politiken devoted their entire front page of Saturday's edition and plenty of room inside to repeating the biographies of all 44 Danes killed in Afghanistan. So a pretty elegant response, I'd say there from Ambassador Hari. But do you think that draws a line, be interested in your, in your views. And then just finally in Russia, Russian officials say Ukrainian drone attack last night sparked a fire in the city of staryovskol that's about 100 kilometers northeast of Kharkiv. No news, no idea really about what the potential target may have been or the attacking munitions. But Belgorod Governor Vasyslav Gladkov said that an exploding drone shattered windows in more than three apartment buildings. But he said two people had died in the attack, gave no further details, and I couldn't find any other details about that anywhere else. But that's us up to date after another busy weekend. Francis?

[Francis Dernley]

Well, absolutely. Thanks very much, Don, for taking us through that. As you mentioned at the start, the second round of trilateral talks between the U.S. ukraine and Russia scheduled for Sunday. So the Sunday that's just gone was postponed after a surprise meeting took place this weekend between the Russian and US Negotiators in Florida. President Zelenskyy confirmed yesterday on social media that the meetings had been moved to Wednesday and Thursday. This week, on Saturday, Steve Witkoff, President Trump's special envoy, of course, held a meeting in Florida with Kirill Dmitriev, the Kremlin special envoy and the head of Russia's sovereign wealth fund. We've talked about him many times before. Neither side released details of what was discussed, although Mr. Witkoff said on social media that the meeting had been productive and constructive. The words they often use, the Ukrainians suffice to say, were not at the table. Meanwhile, the so called energy ceasefire was broken Multiple times by Moscow, as Don was saying, without any comment from Washington. And the Kremlin is reportedly looking to escalate the war in other ways. Our Brussels correspondent Joe Barnes spoke to Estonia's Foreign Minister, Margus Sakhna over the weekend, who claims that Putin is preparing to send hundreds of thousands of former soldiers to conduct hybrid warfare operations across Europe after any ceasefire in Ukraine and possibly even before one. He proposes a blanket ban on Russian soldiers who fought in Ukraine from the EU's Schengen Free Travel Zone. We have close to 1 million combatants in Russia right now, he said. Putin is already using different people to commit attacks on our societies. But when there will be peace, we can imagine we will have hundreds of thousands of ex combatants coming to Europe, and they're definitely not going with good plans to earn their own salaries and pay taxes. They come with real bad plans. And we've already seen the special agencies of Russia organizing different attacks in Europe now. In a diplomatic note circulated to EU foreign ministers seen by the Telegraph, Estonia warns that there are an estimated 1.5 million Russian citizens who've taken part in the war, with around 640,000 still in active service. We see ex prisoners and rapists, all of these crazy guys on the battlefield, and Putin doesn't want that in Russia, Mr. Sakhna warned. They will be weaponized, they will be sent to Europe, and we know exactly how to fight against the Russian military as NATO, but this is even more dangerous and we need to act now while they're still stuck on the battlefield. The minister also said individual EU countries are capable of implementing their own embargo on former Russian soldiers entering at the bloc's external borders. But not enough integration has currently taken place. So an interesting story, and one we will link to in the show, notes there have been similar calls before and frustration by Kyiv and other countries that it is still relatively easy for someone to leave Russia and travel unencumbered across Europe. Now, perhaps that is part of the hangover from when there was that massive brain drain from Russia in the first year of the full scale invasion. But the situation is different now, and it's worth asking whether enough has been done to counter these particular threats. But in other areas too, Moscow continues to show signs of not slowing down its war machine. We had our Africa correspondent, Ben Farmer on the podcast a couple of weeks ago to summarize reports of African mercenaries being recruited as suicide bombers with mines strapped to their chests, and he's just written a follow up looking at more cases. We'll link to that too. And he underscores that a recent survey of more than 10,000 Russian troops captured by Ukraine found 7% were foreign mercenaries taken from 40 different countries. In total, Kyiv estimated late last year that Russia had recruited a total of 18,000 foreigners from 128 countries and over 3,300 had been killed. Now, that won't include, of course, the North Korean soldiers. Other developments that point to no expectation of an imminent ceasefire is what is continuing to happen in in the occupied territories. A new Russian law requires Ukrainian children in Russian occupied parts of Ukraine to obtain Russian international passports to travel abroad to complicate efforts for them fleeing occupation. It took effect at the end of last month and bars Children under 14 from traveling abroad without a Russian international passport. Given that rejecting a Russian passport was a common form of defiance in the occupied territories, We've reported on that many times over the past few years. This is further evidence of suppression and is, of course, illegal under international law. Now, international law may always have been a shared myth of sorts, and we've argued about that before, and it may well be one of the key questions that comes out of this conflict. But it was one that at the very least organized expectations and constrained certain behaviors. And its erosion is almost certainly having a tangible impact around the world. A survey by the Geneva Academy of International Humanitarian Law and human rights of 23 armed conflicts over the the last 18 months concluded that more than 100,000 civilians were killed. While torture and rape are committed with near impunity, more civilians were killed in Ukraine in 2025 than in the two previous years. So a recorded total of 2,514. Although, of course, as you know, at home, the real number may be much, much higher, which was a 70% increase on the number killed in 2023. That's because of the Russian drone attacks deliberately targeting civilians and the millions of homes losing electricity and other utilities. Even the UN has published multiple reports on the systematic, that's their word, systematic human rights abuses of Russian troops in Ukraine. But it is less talked about than in previous days, which surely, surely has to act as an enabler of that behavior. Culture shifts when behaviors repeat and we grow so accustomed as to accept them as our new reality. At least in the Epstein files, there continue to be enough revelations that in Europe there are consequences rather than acquiescence. Maxwell went to prison. Andrew Mountbatten Windsor, formerly Prince Andrew, lost his title, Lord Mandelson his job. The National Security Advisor to Slovakia's Prime Minister has just resigned after the latest release of of documents he exchanged messages about girls and diplomacy with Epstein. And as the thread has been pulled and millions more files released, there is increased scrutiny, too, on certain political parties in Europe. Epstein wrote in one email. For instance, I was having a meeting yesterday with the French right wingers, including Le Pen, her husband, about refinancing the National Front, because apparently a good part of their money comes from Russia. It feels like there's a lot more to follow on this story, and that's why it's great to have the Telegraph's Poppy Wood back with us in the studio today, who, alongside Nick Squires, worked on a piece looking into Epstein's links to Putin and to Kremlin spies. Poppy, it almost sounds conspiratorial, this, but there are people taking this very seriously indeed, seeing him as somebody who acquired Kompromat on influential figures. What evidence do we have about his links with Russia?

[Poppy Wood]

Yeah, that's right. And, I mean, I think it's important to say off the bat that the Internet is awash with conspiracy theories about the whole Epstein saga, not least because, you know, in another world, you might be forgiven for thinking this whole thing is a conspiracy theory in itself. You have the current president, former president, tropical island, lots of money washing around, and a pedophile billionaire at the heart of it. So, over the weekend, more than 3 million documents were released, and journalists, including NRT, are busy trawling through them, looking for the latest revelations and trying to really piece together exactly what went on for decades of Epstein abuse and people being involved in that. But more macro questions have naturally started to arise about how high up did this go and what were the motivations behind Epstein's very large orbit. And we saw a piece in the Daily Mail over the weekend quoting what they said was an intelligence source, saying, you have former Prince Andrew, Bill Gates, Donald Trump, Bill Clinton and all the rest placed in compromising positions on an island bristling with technology. It's the world's largest honey trap operation. All those people have denied any wrongdoing, but as you said, so my colleague and I, Nick Squires, we were tasked with sorting what was fact from fiction. So the previous tranche of Epstein files that were released in December started to lift the lid on his links with Russia. And it does look like his links with Russia's top brass were potentially more overt than his links with the governments of other countries, with the exception of the UK. So we saw from those files that in 2018, Epstein sent an email to Torbjorn Jaglend. And I hope I'M not butchering the pronunciation of that. The former Prime Minister of Norway, who was leading the Council of Europe at the time, he emailed him a month before Trump was due to meet Putin in Helsinki and said that he could offer insight on the US President to Sergei Lavrov, Russia's longtime foreign minister. And then in a follow up email, Epstein wrote, it's not complex. Trump must be seen to get something. It's that simple. So this was the first sort of revelation that Epstein had channels of communication with top Russian officials and he seemed eager to flex them. So we were looking through the most recent tranche of Epstein documents that were published this weekend and they revealed some more links. So in 2011, Epstein received an email discussing an upcoming meeting with Putin in Russia. And further emails from 2014 suggest that he had planned to meet with the Russian leader that year, although it's unclear if it actually went ahead. There were some security concerns following the Malaysia Airlines flight crash. So there are thousands of references to Putin and Moscow in the files. And it's a very live debate and it's something that we'll probably have more answers to in the coming days and weeks as we go through these documents. But we found that he was using his connections with Russia to flex his muscles. Going through the emails yesterday, we saw that he emailed Sergei Belyakov, Russia's then Deputy Minister of Economic Development, saying that he had a problem on his hands regarding a Russian girl who was trying to blackmail a lot of powerful businessmen in New York, and that it was bad for business for everyone involved and asking Russia's government ministers essentially for help on this. And Epstein then drafted an email to himself in what appeared to be him, laying out his thoughts of what he was going to tell this woman. And it said, you should know that I felt it necessary to contact some friends in the FSB and that she would be surely to become vragnoroda, which I believe is Russian for enemy of the people and would be dealt with extremely harshly. There are also tons of references to Russian girls in the Epstein files. We saw thousands of results come up when you search that exact term, which was a term that he seemed to bandy around quite a lot. Those included flight documents showing that he was actively recruiting girls from Russia, flying them to places like Paris and New York, and that he was boasting to his top connections that he had some new Russian girls that he wanted to tout around. So the question is, does this amount to kompromat of trying to lure powerful people into compromising positions involving Russian girls, potentially at the direction of the Kremlin, to hold some sort of leverage over the question of honey trap schemes and Russia's use of them as a long history and been used in the Cold War. But also we've seen them more recently. Last year, there was a high profile trial of a Moscow spy ring run from a guest house in Great Yarmouth. So these are definitely still being used. But the question of whether this was actually a targeted kompromat scheme directed by Russia, I don't think we have any solid evidence of that to date so far. There are serious questions about why Epstein was so keen to document so many of his high profile friends in potentially compromising positions on his property. And we do know from looking at pictures of Epstein's houses that he did have CCTV in lots of the rooms. What has really spurred this debate along is some very specific revelations from the latest Epstein files, including that he sent an email to former Prince Andrew suggesting that he might like to have dinner with a beautiful Russian woman that he had made a connection with. And then a separate email in which he sent to himself in 2013, again similar to the Russian blackmail case, laying out what looks like he was trying to send Bill Gates in a threatening way, potentially. He suggested that Bill Gates, the Microsoft executive, had caught a sexually transmitted sex from sleeping with Russian girls. Bill Gates has denied this and said it's completely absurd. But we do have thousands and thousands of pictures and videos of the world's most powerful people and there are valid questions about why he was hoarding all of those things. I think it's important to say that they're not as compromising as they could be. We have pictures of Bill Clinton and other people in swimming pools and we have pictures of Prince Andrew on all fours over a what looks like a fairly young woman with her face redacted. But if he was running a kompromat scheme, you would expect there to be potentially much more compromising material. Whether or not he was directed by Russia is a whole other question. We don't have very solid evidence of his links with any countries. So that's why I think people have latched onto the Russia thing. He was very good friends with the former Prime Minister of Israel and there are similar rumors percolating that potentially he was working for the Israeli spy agency Mossad. He was good friends with Ehud Barak, the former Prime Minister of Israel. But I do think that when you have a wealth of material with these sorts of things involving incredibly high stakes people, places, time frames, people like to join the dots and put forward that there's this ulterior motive underpinning it all, and that's not necessarily the case. I mean, we could also say that he was incredibly good friends with Lord Mandelson, who at the time, their friendship spanned decades, and that included him being a government minister for the uk. He also had very good connections with former Prince Andrew. And nobody's suggesting that he was really a spy for the British government or the British establishment. So I do think it's important to take all of these suggestions with a pinch of salt. And then also I think it's just important to say that there might not be an ulterior motive. I think when you have a cache of evidence that's this large, people are obviously going to speculate and want to take the suggestions to the extreme. But Epstein was clearly a man motivated by primarily his own twisted sexual gratification, but also clearly hoarding the contacts that he could to create the most illustrious little black boat that we've seen drip fed out over the years of people in high places. And that latter point is nothing new. Lots of people do that and they like to flex their muscles. It doesn't mean that they're a spy. And I don't think there has to be a grand motivation behind it, such as an intervention by a foreign state tying this all together. I think we can make sense of it without that underpinning it. And to some extent, it does a bit of an injustice to his victims, suggesting that this was directed by a foreign state. I mean, he clearly was a deeply disturbed man that enjoyed abusing people and creating evidence to show exactly, if to no one else, exactly to himself, what he'd done.

[Francis Dernley]

Well, Bobby, thank you so much for talking us through that so comprehensively. It's been really, really interesting listening to your reflections on this, and it does feel like there's more to come and more speculation to come. I was reading one piece before we came on air of somebody who dug out an email saying that he had some times Epstein had acted as some kind of banker for Putin. But again, there's no evidence of that in the files that we have. But you can expect that there's going to be more things uncovered and then we're going have to return to this as a theme. But as I said at the top, it does seem bizarre, frankly, that so much is happening here in Europe as a consequence of this, whether it be in Slovakia or in Great Britain, and seemingly nothing is happening in the United States at the moment. No heads are rolling there. And I think you can speculate as to why that is the case. But, Dom, what would your thoughts be on this?

[Dominic Nicholls]

Yeah, Bobby, thanks for your reporting. You're absolutely right, we shouldn't. Okay, this podcast called Ukraine, the latest. But if there's no. No smoking gun leading back to the Kremlin, in no way diminishes these horrific, horrific crimes that these documents all lay out. Going to put you on the spot a bit here. Apologies for that. Do we know the earliest date that these files go back to? And do you know off the top of your head? And I apologize, but do you know when the earliest reference to FSB was in this? When Epstein started talking about or to the FSB or referring to. To these kind of characters?

[Poppy Wood]

I mean, the difficulty is that the Department of Justice search tool is so bad and clunky that if you search fsb, sometimes it says no matching results, and sometimes it says, oh, thousands of results. So we are working away, pouring through the documents to try and establish those sorts of things. The most concrete thing that we could find with the FSB is the blackmail suggestion that I mentioned. I think it was in 2011. So this is, you know, around the time that he is supposed to be meeting with Putin. And it may be the case that he was a man that liked to quickly turn one very small interaction into the most powerful thing he could possibly yield out of it. But we may have more details on that sort of thing in due course.

[Dominic Nicholls]

But we know he met Putin and there's images of him in Russia. I saw a photo of him with Ghislaine Maxwell, and it was thought to be somewhere in Russia, as if it was. This was not known if he was ever gone. Or is it established that he did go to Russia and had meetings with senior Kremlin officials?

[Poppy Wood]

It hasn't been established. I mean, this is the thing. Epstein wasn't a public official in any way. You know, we have pictures of the former Prince Andrew going to China and meeting with Xi Jinping because he was trade envoy and Epstein was a man in high places. But there's no reason why we should have our hands on these documents at all. So they have been released. And what we would say as journalists, a very unhelpful way of just hundreds of thousands of documents and pictures without any captions. And we're trying to piece together a jigsaw of this man's life. I mean, we have what looks like pictures of them with Russian soldiers, but no timestamp, no metadata, because they've been Reuploaded by the Department of Justice, and then we're downloading them. So it's very hard to create a picture, but I'm sure more details will emerge as we get through them. And, you know, as people have been saying, it's not just journalists have access to this. If people are interested, they can try and find their own things going on the Department of Justice website and seeing what search terms they can put in and what results it yields. But it looks like he did meet Putin in Russia in 2011 and that a further meeting planned in 2014 might have been scuppered. But he had a keen interest in Russia that he didn't necessarily have with other countries. I mean, he was happy to talk about China in abstract terms as far as we can see so far, but he wasn't going to China and creating links and striking up friendships with high fleeting people in that world.

[Dominic Nicholls]

Yeah. So. And you mentioned earlier on about the parade of Russian young Russian women through Epstein's life. I mean, do you think there was systemic recruiting of Russian women to get them over to New York? I mean, actually facilitated by an organized system, or is it just women looking for whatever they do through modeling agents or whatever, wherever Epstein finds them? But do you think they were actively pushed his way?

[Poppy Wood]

It looks like he had an interest in Russian girls in particular. We have found, as I said, so many references to Russian girls that pop up in his own words. And he wasn't just talking about Russian girls with associates of his and presenting Russian girls to them. There are emails with assistants that look like he was interested in Russian modeling agencies as huge resources that he could tap to find the sorts of girls he was looking for. We have found receipts and email confirmations from assistants tagging in Epstein and using his bank details, his cards to pay for the flights showing that Russian girls were being flown from Moscow to Paris or from Moscow to New York and vice versa. There are quite a lot of those and also talk of allowing them to get visas. And how would he get these girls visas? So it does look that way, but, you know, we have been selective in some senses because we are looking at stuff that he's already spoken about. We found that when he was talking to Prince Andrew, he would talk about proffering up a Russian woman. And therefore we've gone to look for what we can find in the documents relating to Russian girls. But it's possible that there are other nationalities that he was also keenly looking out for. But this was definitely one of his priorities and that sent it's interesting that.

[Dominic Nicholls]

2011 timescale if you say that's when you think Epstein met Putin for the first time, because of course, that was when. So Putin came to power after Yeltsin, 1999. So he was then acting president. I think he was actually voted, quote, unquote, voted in, in early 2000. But his tenure as president ended. His first tenure ended in 2008. And he was then Prime Minister when Dmitry Medvedev became president between 2008 and 2012. So Putin was only prime minister and we strongly suspect he was just directing things from behind there. Then another round of voting, blah, blah, blah, constitutional change. He comes back in 2012 and he's president since then. But that period you're talking about, if that's when you think Epstein met Putin, that might fit with him not being the president he was. Okay, prime minister's no sort of shrinking violent in any constitutional setup. But that would chime with Putin's time slightly out of the limelight, I might venture.

[Francis Dernley]

I think another thought just to throw into the mix here is it's quite noteworthy that everybody just accepts that billionaires, of course, you'll be chatting to people in the Kremlin. Of course you'll be, these people are crooks. These people are known crooks. And I would say that it should be morally reprehensible, regardless of all of these matters that we've been talking about, foreign infiltration, sex trafficking. Just doing business with these people should be enough to have you ostracized. Not being such close friends, alleged close friends with some of the most powerful people in the United States, leader of the free world. I mean, I think it's quite striking how the conversation has shifted away from thinking that that in and of itself would be unacceptable. And that's before we even get into the territory of the fact. There's an email where he says that there are opportunities caused by the chaos that taken place after the 2014 annexation of Crimea, which again, you know, I know that this is economics, this is how business works, but nonetheless, it's still quite striking that you've got somebody talking about it in those terms in an email chain and has such important affiliations, including with the current President of the United States.

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[Francis Dernley]

Let's go to our final thoughts. Dom, where would you like to leave?

[Dominic Nicholls]

Listen today first, here in London, please. Francis says the next level or next step in a diplomatic spat between Britain and Russia today. So in a tweet earlier on, the British Foreign Office says the UK has today revoked the accreditation of a Russian diplomat. This follows Russia's unprovoked decision to expel a British diplomat and subject them to a public smear campaign. We will not tolerate intimidation of our staff. Now this goes back a little while ago when Russia kicked out just before Christmas kicked a British diplomat out of Moscow for reasons well unknown, they said spying and conduct unbecoming and what have you. So the FCO today in a statement they said we condemn in the strongest possible terms Russia's unprovoked and unjustified decision to expel a British diplomat last month and its baseless accusations against our staff. Summoning the Russian ambassador, a senior FCDO from Commonwealth and Development Office official made it clear that the UK will not stand for intimidation of British Embassy staff. And so we are taking reciprocal action today revoking the accreditation of a Russian diplomat. Now, so far, so slash normal. We've Seen this before, but the way the Foreign Office statement ends I think is quite interesting. It says it is deeply disappointing that Russia continually seeks to disrupt the work of the UK's diplomatic missions and deter our support for Ukraine.

[Francis Dernley]

Okay.

[Dominic Nicholls]

But then it says any further action taken by Russia will be considered an escalation and responded to accordingly. So normally in these diplomatic tit for tat, we see one of theirs, one of ours, one of ours, one of theirs, etc. But that statement there, any further action considered an escalation and responded to accordingly. That does. Will probably invite action by Russia, I would suggest. So we will keep our eyes on that one.

[Francis Dernley]

Yeah, very interesting. Well, thanks very much, Tom, for that and for your time today. Poppy, where do you like to leave listeners?

[Poppy Wood]

I suppose I would like to end where I started, which is that, you know, conspiracy theories are awash at the moment and it's very important that we separate fact from fiction. But also that with the Epstein files, basically once an idea is out there, you can use any information at your fingertips to try and back up your claim. And I think because there's such a mystery surrounding this whole affair, especially the nature here died, there will be no final word on what happened. And it is important to just draw things a little bit back and maintain a sense of calm as and when you can. I mean, arguably, Epstein emailing high officials saying that he could offer insight to Putin on how Trump's mind work could back up the exact opposite, saying, well, a spy's never going to say this. You know, a spy would never open up a channel of communication that way. It always works the other way around. It's evidence that he was just a grifter and he was addicted to making power and connections. So I think it's important that we just rein things in a little bit and work out exactly what we can say for sure. But also that the dark tale of this Epstein saga is that he was just a dark man and so many people were affected by that. It doesn't mean that there are forces at work controlling how the world operates.

[Francis Dernley]

Ukraine the latest is an original podcast from the Telegraph created by David Knowles to support our work and stay on top of all of our Ukraine news, analysis and dispatches from the ground. Please subscribe to the Telegraph. You can get one month free, then two months for just one pound at www.telegraph.co.uk. ukraine, the latest. Deploying cutting edge technology, we also release Ukrainian and Russian versions of this podcast. These translations retain our voices and delivery so that it can reach listeners in every region of Ukraine and those parts of Eastern Europe where Russian is still widely spoken. Links to those can be found in the podcast description to this episode. You can also now sign up to the New Ukraine, the latest weekly newsletter. Each week Dom Nichols and I answer your questions, provide recommended reading and give exclusive analysis and behind the scenes insights plus maps of the front lines and diagrams of weapons to complement our daily reporting. It's free for everyone including non subscribers. You can find the link to sign up in the descriptions for this episode. We regularly have a Ukraine Live blog on our website where you can follow updates as they come in throughout the day, including insights from regular contributors to this podcast. We also do the same for other breaking international stories. If you appreciate our work, please consider following Ukraine the latest on your preferred podcast. Appreciate and leave us a review as it really helps others find the show. Please also share it with those who may not be aware we exist. You can also get in touch directly to ask questions or give comments by emailing ukrainepodelegraph.co.uk we continue to read every message. You can also contact us directly on X. You'll find our handles in the description for this episode. As ever, we're especially interested to hear where you're listening from around the world. Ukraine the latest was Today produced by Rachel Porter. Executive producers are Francis Dernley, Louisa Wells and David Knowles.

[David Knowles]

My name is David Knowles.

[Dominic Nicholls]

Thank you all for listening. Goodbye.

[Jonathan Fields]

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[Dominic Nicholls]

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