← Ukraine: The Latest
Ukraine: The Latest
Rumours of 'Ukrainian counteroffensive' in the south & Japan aligns with NATO to support Ukraine in surprise move
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- [00:04]
Narrator/Host
The telegraph.
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David Knowles
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David Knowles
ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.
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Narrator/Host
Foreign.
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Francis Durnley
I'm Francis Dernley and this is Ukraine. The latest Today, amid growing rumors Ukraine may be preparing a new counteroffensive, we discuss how the Kremlin is attempting to play down expectations and undermine confidence in the ongoing peace talks. We then report on Japan's move to join the Pearl initiative supporting Ukraine, examine a diplomatic row that's erupted at the Winter Olympics and sit down with Romania's Foreign minister to hear how the war in Ukraine is being viewed from Bucharest on NATO and the EU's eastern flank.
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Narrator/Host
Bravery takes you through the most unimaginable hardships to finally reward you with victory. Russia does not want peace.
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Francis Durnley
In essence. Werfer teidegen mit unsre hilfe die O Kreine auch unsre Freiheit und unsre Europischen Wertel.
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Narrator/Host
If I'm president, have that war settled in one day, 24 hours.
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David Knowles
We are with you. Not just today or tomorrow, but for 100 years.
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Narrator/Host
Nobody's going to break us.
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David Knowles
We are strong.
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Narrator/Host
We are. Ukraine is.
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Francis Durnley
It's Tuesday 10th February, three years and 353 days since the full scale invasion began. And today I'm joined by our Associate Editor of Defence, Dom Nichols and Romania's Minister of Foreign Affairs, Oana Soyu. But first, over to Dom for the latest on the battlefield.
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David Knowles
Well, thanks, Francis. Let's start inside Ukraine. Look over the last 24 hours and Russia launched 11 Iskanda M ballistic missiles and 149 drones at Ukraine overnight. The air force said this morning Ukrainian air defence intercepted 116 drones but at least 23 and several of the missiles made made it through striking 15 locations. Six people killed and 41 others injured. So relatively, and that's an interesting term but a relatively small number of dead and injured. But what does it actually look like on the ground? Okay, let's zoom in. In Donetsk Oblast an artillery strike killed and injured civilians in Kramatorsk. Elsewhere in the oblast there were more dead and injured in the village of Alekseevo Druzhivka, then in Borokiv in Kharkiv oblast. That's about 40ks northwest of Kharkiv city. A 41 year old, 10 year old boy were killed. We don't know their relationship, but it seems likely to have been a mother and a son. An 11 year old child and her mother were killed this morning by a Russian glide bomb in the city of Sloviansk in Donetsk Oblast. That attack brings the official number of children confirmed killed by Russia since the start of the full scale invasion to 681. In Chernhiv Oblast, a Russian drone strike killed a 71 year old man and injured four others in the towns of Novodsfersky, Governor Vasyslav Ch said 1 residential buildings were hit in Odessa. There were casualties there including at least one dead. And in the Nikopol district of Dnipropetrovsk Oblast there were more casualties. 27 settlements were hit across Kherson Oblast yesterday and drones hit civilians in Sumy Oblast. Strikes there too against rail infrastructure trying to deny the locals the ability just to live their lives and to get around. Oh, and a vehicle carrying railway workers en route to repair the tracks that have been damaged while was also hit by a drone. The pilot of that drone thinking anything? Thinking what? That killing civilians was just the thing that one does in war. Ethics aren't some sort of woke bolt on bureaucracy to keep the losers happy. Flying drones into vans carrying repair workers is where you end up when you have a system that applauds the willful disregard of law and order and that encourages the suppression of one's own humanity. I know that's not just a Russian problem right now. There are many places around the world where weak tough guys strut around feeling emboldened with guilt guns, bellies just about squeezing around the edges of their body armor. But there we go. Oh, and to finish off energy infrastructure was hit in Poltava and sumy oblasts. 80,000 people left without power after a high voltage substation was hit in Volyn oblast right over near the Polish border. So that's just another typical day in Ukraine on the ground next to no move. More comment We've been talking about the last couple of days, but more comment about this supposed counter attack by Ukrainian forces in Zaporizhzhia under Dnipro Petrov Oblast. More comment in the way of turning it off or refuting such ideas, there were suggestions, just as a recap, that the drop off of Starlink after SpaceX turned the signal off or came up with a plan with Ukraine's MOD to have a whitelist and a blacklist of registered users, the Ukrainians being the white list, everyone else not able to access the Starlink system. Suggestions that because of that Russian drones, and there is some evidence for this, that Russian drones haven't been able to operate as deeply as they have been inside Ukraine. But on the back of that there were suggestions that Ukraine launch some sort of counterattack or you know, counter offensive. That seems not to be the case. Online media outlet Malcontent News says small pockets of Russian troops can no longer be resupplied by air or ground drone due to the Starlink restrictions and Ukraine is carrying out mop up operations in areas where Russia never had military control. There are fewer Russian drones for now and Russian intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance type drones is degraded. But they say Russian commanders captured a lot of villagers captured in inverted commas, captured them on credit if you like, over the last few months and the only thing happening now is that the truth is coming out. So they say a lot of the advances west of the T401 highway and the Haicha river, they were one way trips, they say for small squads of Russian soldiers. This is in the vicinity of a bit further north in Zaporizhzhia Oblast. Now that view is seemingly supported by Russian mill bloggers. A number of these individuals are saying that Ukrainian forces are taking advantage of foggy weather and the recent block on Starlink in order to conduct counter offensives in Dnipropetrovsk and Zaporizhzhia areas. You may remember it was only a few days ago in relation to Pokrovsk brackets. There are still reports of fighting in Pokrovsk and the city hasn't yet fallen to Russia. But don't let that get in the way of a good Kremlin narrative. But you may remember a few days ago Russia was saying that because of the foggy conditions they were able to take advantage of the weather and push on against Ukraine. Well now it seems to be a massive advantage to the Ukrainians. So after drones and ceasefires, perhaps we can now add Schrodinger's fog to the list of Russian misinformation terms. Something that exists and at the same time doesn't exist, or in the case of drones, something that is a sound military tactic if employed by Russia, but a terrorist attack if they come from Ukraine anyway. Ukrainian Southern Defence Forces spokesperson Colonel Vlasyslav Vloshin said there has been no counteroffensive. He says there's just reconnaissance and search operations to find these Russian infiltration and sabotage groups, as he says. Now it's interesting that Russian mill bloggers have in recent weeks been somewhat critical of Russian commanders fabricating advances. We've seen a few flag waving episodes. People rush forward, wave a flag, take a photo from a drone, say, oh this is this area taken by Russia. You know, it's one or two people on a flag raising suicide operation. But you know, these reports have been fabricated and called out by Russian mill bloggers, these reports to look good for the Russian chain of command. But this time Russian mill bloggers are not framing the violence in those terms. They're not saying it's all fabrication. They're preferring this narrative about some Ukrainian counteroffensive. It's all very confusing. We don't know exactly what's going on on the ground, except that Ukraine has refuted that they are in the midst of a counteroffensive. UK you might counter with. Well, they would say that, wouldn't they? So we don't, so we don't, we don't really know. However, according to Ukraine's general Staff statistics that are generally taken to be accurate, they say 980 Russians were made casualties yesterday. That's dead, wounded, taken prisoner and missing. So still very active at the front even though the line's going nowhere and we're not exactly sure what's happening down in the south of the country. Now, just finally, as you said at the start, Japan is going to join Pearl, the prioritised Ukraine requirements list, Japanese public broadcast NHK said earlier today, citing unnamed NATO officials. Now this will take to 25 the scheme's members. There's only two other non NATO members in Pearl, that's Australia and New Zealand. This is quite interesting in the wake of the election of the weekend. I know you're going to mention in a moment, but in line with Japan's post second World War constitution, this aid is going to be limited to non lethal support. I've seen somewhere that it's going to be, I think it was electronic warfare stuff and body armor. I mean, you know, all useful stuff, but in line with their constitution. Non lethal, as I said, comes after the conservative LDP party's landslide victory on Sunday's election, as you mentioned yesterday, and you're going to mention again, it seems to be very, very quickly out of the blocks. We thought that this was going to usher in a new era of perhaps a slightly more muscular foreign policy from Japan and perhaps we're already seeing it, but that's us up to date. Francis.
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Francis Durnley
Yeah, thanks, Tom. I think this is an extraordinary intervention, I have to say. I mean, obviously all the caveats apply here, as you say, because of the nature of the Japanese constitution, which I won't go over all over again. But we talked about in, in yesterday's episode. But the fact that they've already said they want to join Pearl, I think does speak to, as you say, an increased muscular policy that Tokyo clearly feels is necessary in response to China. And it is fascinating to see that they think it very, very important to be allying themselves more closely with European powers and supporting Ukraine in their fight. Clearly they feel that if things were to escalate in the Pacific in the years ahead that they're going to need more allies, perhaps allies that are not the United States. But anyway, that is a separate discussion for another time. Just briefly, since we're on the subject of weapons. As Dom introduced yesterday, Ukraine and France took a step forward towards joint arms production as the new Ukrainian Defence Minister Mykhailo Fedorov and his French counterpart signed a letter of intent in Kyiv. We've got a few more details from that. They said they are opening the way for a large scale joint project in the defence industry, moving from supplies to joint production and long term solutions that systematically strengthen our defence. During the meeting, the ministers also discussed accelerating the delivery of French Mirage 2000 fighter jets, as well as a record shipment of AASM air to ground bombs. But perhaps the most significant political intervention of the past 24 hours is once again from Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, who has thrown coal water on the idea that the peace talks currently taking place are making huge amounts of progress. In an interview with state owned ntv, he said they were far from finished. I think he's referencing the talks there and described the excessive optimism surrounding the negotiations, saying there was some kind of enthusiastic perception of what is happening that should not be embraced. Now bear in mind that Enthusiastic perception is most prominently coming from the United States and President Trump himself. Clearly, the Kremlin is worried that if when the latest round of negotiations leads to no sizeable progress because Russia hasn't been incentivised to stop, this does not come as too much of a shock. A bitter blow to the White House risking their wrath. I think most leaders in Europe who really understand the war know that the chance of any breakthrough in talks is minuscule. The EU's foreign policy chief, Kaia Kallis, said this yesterday. While Ukraine already agreed to unconditional ceasefire over a year ago, Russia keeps on bombing. Plus, they don't really have serious people behind that negotiating table. That's something that we've talked about on the podcast before, so I don't expect anything out of this, really. So the usual candor from Kaya, it begs the perennial question then, what is Europe's strategy? We reported last week how clearly concerned about the US being the key broker in these talks, Europe was seeking to reopen a back channel directly with Russia. Now we learn from the Kremlin that technical level contacts between Paris and Moscow have resumed, saying they could quickly lead to high level dialogue if there were political will. So these were the remarks of our friend Pesky Peskov, Kremlin spokesman. We took note of Macron's comments about the need to rebuild relations with Russia. We welcome statements like that. We've said for a long time that cutting relations down to zero is illogical, counterproductive and bad for everyone. Russia has always argued in favour of dialogue. In our view, only dialogue can help deal with the most serious and difficult problems. These issues won't solve themselves and confrontation won't fix them. As for other European capitals, we haven't seen similar moves from them so far. One can almost hear the relish in those words. Now. In other news, we've been reporting recently on Russia's use of African mercenaries, reportedly strapping mines to some of them and deploying them as suicide bombers on the front lines. Well, according to the BBC, Kenya says it will talk to Russia over its citizens being recruited to fight. The country's foreign minister called the practice unacceptable and clandestine and said Nairobi had shut down illegal recruiters and would urge Moscow to sign a deal banning the conscription of Kenyan soldiers. The Kenyan government estimates that around 200 of its nationals have been recruited to fight for Russia. Kenya and Russia have had long relations since independence, literally. So this, in my view, becomes a very unfortunate episode of otherwise a very positive and cordial relation between our two countries. Quite a Remarkable statement. I think that given what we know Moscow has been up to in Africa over recent years, not least involving the Wagner group, and we've done a lot of deep dives on that subject. But another update, this time in Europe. Pope Leo has sent 80 electric generators and thousands of medical supplies to Ukraine to help citizens there cope with the freezing winter temperatures and the constant attacks that came from the Vatican yesterday. The aid was arranged in response to appeals from bishops who warned of the mounting difficulties caused by the attacks on energy infrastructure and the sub zero temperatures. Three trucks carrying the generators and medical supplies departed from the Basilica of Saint Sophia in Rome and have already arrived in in Kyiv. Alongside the generators, thousands of medical supplies were delivered, including antibiotics, anti inflammatories, supplements and melatonin, which Vatican officials said is in high demand as Ukrainians struggle with stress, sleep deprivation and the ongoing attacks. Final story today is a row that erupted at the Winter Olympics in Italy, which is now involving very senior figures and heated remarks from both sides. In training, the Ukrainian skeleton racer Vladislav Heleskivi, I hope I've pronounced that correctly, has been wearing a helmet featuring athletes killed during the war, but the International Olympic Committee has banned him from wearing it. Now President Zelensky is involved, saying this truth cannot be inconvenient, inappropriate, or called a political demonstration at a sporting event. It is a reminder to the entire world of what modern Russia is now. The competitor who was Ukraine's flag bearer said, the decision simply breaks my heart, adding that some of them, referring to the dead athletes, were my friends to compromise. The IOC will allow him to wear a black armband, with a spokesman saying, we feel this is a good compromise in this situation. Now, just for context, gestures of political nature on the medal podium have been forbidden since 2021 under Article 50 of Olympic Charter, but athletes are permitted to express their views in press conferences and on social media. However, the spokesman's remarks went further and have upset many, especially this line. There are probably 20 to 30 different conflicts going on at any time around the world. Now that is basically the core of their justification here, that because there are so many other wars that they don't want to get into a situation where everybody is commenting on other conflicts and so thereby it shouldn't be possible for him to become. But this is Europe's largest war since the Second World War, over a million casualties on one side alone. And so you can understand why many people are pretty upset by this. Ukraine's sports minister told AFP this month that Russia has killed more than 650 athletes and coaches, according to their latest data. So you can, as I say, really understand why the Ukrainians feel so strongly about this. I expect this story is going to run.
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David Knowles
I think it will. No pun intended. I mean, that's such a crass and a stupid statement to say there's 20 or 30 other wars around the. Around the world. I mean. Right, okay, great. So what? So it doesn't matter. You'll remember, you may remember during the Bosnian war that the then UN Secretary General, Boutros Boutros Ghali got into real hot water. He was either in Sarajevo or he was asked directly about the siege of Sarajevo and the number of civilians that are being killed there. And he said. I mean, it's almost a direct quote. He said, I could name 10 other countries around the world where the situation's worse than here. You know, utterly irrelevant, crass, insensitive, didn't do him any good. And I think the Olympic Committee here are going to be under scrutiny. It didn't need to happen. It could have been managed. But by coming up with this kind of statement, they just invite criticism and invite a correction, and then they're. They're on the back foot in terms of comms. And so I think this will actually run. So, forgive me, Winter Olympics. Right. So Seb Coe, Sebastian Coe, he's the head of the International Olympic Committee. That's both, isn't it? Summer and Winter Olympics.
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Francis Durnley
I believe so.
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David Knowles
Right, okay. Well, I imagine then he will. I can see this elevating pretty quickly. And. And Sebco being asked for for a comment. In fact, we should ask him. Let's find Sebco's number.
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Francis Durnley
The Telegraph will have his contacts somewhere. My old beat on the comment desk.
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David Knowles
Right, well, there you go. You've just volunteered for the guard room, but yeah, I mean, seriously, what's the. What's the think here? They've got. They've now got to come out the same. They can't leave it like this. At the very least, we can say we're gone. Then where are these other 20 places that are worse right now or with these other. These other conflicts that we should be.
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Francis Durnley
I'll drop him a WhatsApp, Dom. All right, I'll ask him.
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David Knowles
Okay. All right, good.
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Francis Durnley
He's looking at me, accusing. I'm on it. Right, okay. Well, bear with us. We'll see if we can get some sort of response from the ioc. And, and Seb, let's do our final thoughts very quickly before we go to our interview with Romania's foreign minister. Dom, where do you want to start?
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David Knowles
With a slight apology, one I missed on Friday, but I think is worth bringing to your attention because we've chatted about it. We are going to chat again. NATO allies agreed last Friday a new distribution of existing senior officer posts. This is going to result in European nations playing a more prominent role in NATO's leadership. So what's going to happen is the UK is going to take over JFC Norfolk. So joint Force Command Norfolk. That's In Norfolk, Virginia. U.S. not. Not Norfolk. Norfolk, home of the six fingered webbed. Webbed hands. All the rest of it. Deny it, deny it.
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Francis Durnley
Okay, to be clear, my parents aren't from Norfolk, right. So they moved there. I am Norfolk born and bred, however, so tread carefully because we've got seven toes.
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David Knowles
Didn't you have a maths teacher with six fingers?
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Francis Durnley
I had a. You have to bring this up. Yes, I had an English teacher who did have web feet.
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David Knowles
Well, there you go. It's pretty much the same thing.
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Francis Durnley
He was 14 generations Norfolk book. So he said, there you go. I almost named him then. I was going to give him a shout out but I better not do that. I better not do that. But he was a much loved English teacher. He was great. Really inspired me actually. He did war poetry particularly powerfully. I remember him doing Dolce Decorum Est.
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David Knowles
Brilliant swimming coaches as well, I guess. Anyway, so JFC Norfolk, not that Norfolk, the one in America. JFC Norfolk is going to be taken over by a British officer. Basically looks out, out of the Atlantic. Atlantic Security Italy is going to take over JFC Naples. That looks after NATO's southern flank. Both of those are currently led by a United States officer. Germany and Poland are going to share command of Joint Force Command Brunsom on a rotational basis. And that means that all three JFCs Joint Force staff commands the operational lead in any type of conflict going to be led by Europeans. These changes are going to come in over time with people retiring and rotation of posts. It's not going to be rushed in tomorrow. So it's going to take a number of years. But. But I think it's an interesting move. I think it's a good move. Europe needs to take more responsibility for its own security, as we've been saying. Does need to be backed up though by national political heft. I would suggest if it's not to flounder and just be seen as an expeditious means for the US to disengage from NATO and Europe. But I think on the face of it, a Good move and an interesting move that NATO's taking this time to do it.
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Francis Durnley
Well, thanks very much, Dom. Now, this was a story that was reported last week, but I just thought I'd zoom in on that and use it as a, as a means to talk about something else. So a Russian drone struck an animal shelter in Ukraine, killing 13 dogs and injuring at least seven more last week. Now, compared to the scale of the human suffering, that may seem a fairly insignificant story, but I think it's right that we do shine a light on these two. And in that spirit, I wanted to share a long read with fantastic photography by our friends at the Keev Independent into at Kyiv Zoo. So to quote the opening from it, life in Kyiv right now is difficult for any 51 year old. But when you are also a western lowland gorilla more suited to the warmth of Central Africa, the ongoing energy crisis is particularly tough. This is the current plight of Tony, one of the oldest residents of Kyiv Zoo, a popular attraction in the capital that is somehow still managing to function even as Russia continues its relentless campaign to freeze Ukraine into submission. Now, the article talks about the unique challenges the staff experience. They have to obviously water, feed and warm the 2,000 animals that they have across 321 species. So the zoo has an Indian elephant, hippopotamus, crocodiles, dozens of birds and varieties of primates. Tony the gorilla and is Ukraine's only gorilla, I learned today lives in an enclosure with electric heated flooring when the power goes out. So during blackouts they have to use a log burning stove. And apparently he's rather fond of that when that happens because he gets to sort of sit closer to it. So anyway, a really interesting read. None of the animals at Kyiv Zoo have died from Russian strikes during the war. That is a remarkable achievement for the staff given where Kyiv Zoo is located in the city, which is one of the areas that's struck most frequently. And they've also, on top of all of that, managed to shelter 600 animals evacuated from areas elsewhere in Ukraine. So a great story and hopefully a little bit of a brighter one and I'll link to it in the show Notes.
- [25:26]
David Knowles
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David Knowles
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- [25:47]
Francis Durnley
Alana Soyu has served as Romania's Minister of Foreign affairs since June 2025 during a visit to the UK this week, we invited her to the Telegraph offices for a conversation about Bucharest's view of the war. Romania, of course, is a member of both NATO and the eu, bordering Ukraine to the north, Moldova to the northeast, Hungary and Serbia to the west, and Bulgaria to the south. As a frontline NATO state, Romania has experienced multiple drone incursions across its border and finds itself among the countries most affected by Russian hybrid warfare, from disinformation to cyber and political interference. In response, it has stepped up security cooperation with Kyiv, including the signing of a new bilateral treaty aimed at countering these threats. Last year, Romania's presidential election was annulled by the Constitutional Court following intelligence assessments pointing to serious irregularities and alleged foreign, including Russian, interference. This is our conversation. Well, Minister, thank you very much for your time. A couple of days ago, Viktor Orban, the Prime Minister of Hungary, one of the neighbouring countries of Romania, called Ukraine an enemy. I wonder what your assessment of that remark is and also your assessment of Ukraine at this moment of the war.
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Narrator/Host
Well, Ukraine is our neighbor. Ukraine is a courageous country. I have been there, to Kyiv, Chetnamut and other communities. And if you see firsthand the courage that the Ukrainian people have, the resilience, the way that they have kept, the hope, the way that they have kept working towards the goal of peace, I think it's very hard not to admire what they are doing. And I think the international community sees this clearly from Romania's perspective, as we have the longest NATO border with the war. That's also European Union and the Schengen border. Of course, we also understand that what is happening now in Ukraine, the sacrifice of the Ukrainian people, the effort they're doing, and also the international community support indirectly keeps us safer from Russian harm as well.
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Francis Durnley
Can you talk a little bit more about the risks Romania faces as a frontline country, particularly in the hybrid warfare sense?
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Narrator/Host
If you speak about the hybrid interferences, those have no borders in terms of the potential that is open in any country for interferences in the online space, for example. And we have seen this happening in many countries. There's actually a NATO clear statement that has been initiated by Ukraine, where we actively participated as well, that makes it clear that there is hybrid interference and that we should coordinate more in terms of how we prevent that from happening, how we learn from each other, and what are the best instruments to, well, protect that. What we're doing now is that we're working with more countries to be able to share the lessons that we have. Romania is actually the host country at the European level of some of the best experts in terms of cyber security. And we're also well known in terms of our university degrees, in terms of our engineers, for how Romanians have contributed in the software and IT space. And that has also a cyber component to it. Actually, if you look at the private companies as well, we have some of the most fast paced, growing cybersecurity companies.
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Francis Durnley
When we're talking about the threat, though, we aren't just talking about hybrid, we're talking about drones. There have been drones that have actually crossed into your border. What has been your reaction to that? And do you think that those are genuine threats to the solidity of Article 5 in NATO?
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Narrator/Host
Well, if you look at all the countries on the eastern flank, we have seen interferences and have reacted to lead firmly to that. In our case also the United Nations Security Council in New York in September, it has been a clear case where Romania has shown solidarity with the other countries that have faced interferences in their airspace, for example, from drones. And also, I have to say, we have seen the same international solidarity. There have been more than 20 countries that have spoken up in support of Romania during the United Nations Security Week. And that has been important to signal again that we are together in this and that we perceive the security of one as having a stake to the security of all. Now we're also doing something concrete at the defense level. We are strong supporters of having a dedicated amount of funding for the eastern flank. That means capabilities within NATO. That means our own budgets to be increased in that direction. The 5% commitment at the Hague NATO summit. But it also means that through the process of negotiating the future budget of the European Union, we are focused together with the countries on the eastern flank to make sure there is an allocation for the common initiatives, be it the drone wall, the Eastern century, you can use different titles, as it depends from where it started. The initiative, Is it a funding initiative? Is it an actual military initiative? NATO has a focus on the eastern flank. The European Commission has acknowledged. Acknowledged that and goes ahead with that in terms of defense coordination, but also in terms of funding. And it is quite clear that we need better capabilities and the stronger coordination. And on that sense, we are hosting the Bucharest Nine Summit, the B9 summit in the second half of May. Presidentico Shordan has already coordinated with his counterparts and we're going to see in the second half of May the summit hosted in Bucharest. The B9 initiative is a common initiative of Romania and Poland and we are quite proud to host it this year. And it is put precisely in the actual time frame that would allow us to then feed in the conclusions from the B summit into the Ankara NATO summit happening in the summer.
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Francis Durnley
I can acknowledge that a lot is happening on Europe's eastern flank and NATO's eastern flank in particular. But you rather deftly avoided my question, if I may say, about Hungary and a judgment on Hungary, because surely there is a very serious security issue when you have a country that's calling Ukraine an enemy that's so closely tied, particularly with regard to energy purchasing. I mean, can you offer the Romanian government's assessment of Hungary's position?
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Narrator/Host
I wasn't shying away from the question. It's just that our positions are clear for so many years that I don't think anyone questions them anymore.
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Francis Durnley
No personal reaction to Mr. Orban going further than usual in calling Kyiv an enemy.
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Narrator/Host
I don't comment on internal elections for our neighbors, no. But again, the reason why this is not the question anymore is because our positions are different for so long. For example, we have cut off the import from Russia since 2022. But that is also because we are an energy producer. We are the largest producer inside the European Union of natural gas. We have this mix of energy resources, nuclear, solar, wind. And we also have the potential to increase, furthermore our production if we look at the Neptune deep at the Black Sea. Now, Hungary hasn't taken the same decisions. We have been quite clear on the fact that we see that all of the European Union should cut off from Russian energy sources. But obviously we're in a different position in terms of what we have. And here I think the United States position has actually helped accelerate the effort within the European Union in terms of regulation decisions. And that has been well on that sense, specifically beneficial. Now, in terms of Ukraine, again, we have a different position. We are supporters of opening the negotiation clusters. That is very important, obviously, for Moldova as well. We believe the western Balkans as well need an accelerated path to join the European Union. Mr. Orban has had a different opinion and has been vocal about it. It is transparent for a long time for our citizens that we do not share the same position on this.
- [33:54]
Francis Durnley
I'll come to Romania's support for Ukraine in a moment. But you mentioned the United States position there. What's your assessment of the United States in Europe at the moment? Are you concerned about the direction of travel following the release of the national security plan?
- [34:07]
Narrator/Host
Well, I think it is obvious that they have been transparent, clear and quite vocal about the fact that they want to decrease their resources here on the continent to reallocate some of the resources towards their objective on the Indo Pacific. But there are also strong voices within the United States that say that the threat coming from Russia shouldn't be underestimated and that it makes sense that the United States continues to have capabilities to the level they currently have or even increase those capabilities on European soil. On our side, we've been working with the United States, for example, to increase the way we're able to defend our airspace. And this comes back to one of your initial questions in terms of radars. Currently, as we are speaking, we have common exercises on Abraham tanks happening with US Troops as well. We are one of the countries inside the European Union that agree that a bigger part of the border in terms of defense budgets needs to be taken by European allies. And we have increased our own allocation at 2%, then now 5%, 3.5 plus 1.5 for dual use. But we're also one of the countries that continues to send the message for the need for a strong transatlantic partnership on the security part and on the economic part.
- [35:30]
Francis Durnley
Given your proximity to Ukraine, do you think Romania has done enough to keep Kyiv in the fight?
- [35:36]
Narrator/Host
Well, I think we can all of us say we've done enough when we're going to have peace in Ukraine.
- [35:40]
Francis Durnley
Ukraine, do you think that's close?
- [35:43]
Narrator/Host
I think we have to be optimistic. But in the same time, what history teaches us, what our history, Romania, what Poland is saying, the same thing many times, and also a lot of the countries that have bordered Russia or have had direct experience with Russia across time is you have to look at what Russia is doing rather than what they're saying. And what they're doing is the opposite of signaling a path towards people peace. They have broken almost every rule that was ever written. There is absolutely no universe in which you can say that a maternity where women were giving birth is a legitimate war target, but they have bombed nonetheless, that workers on a bus to commute to work can be a legitimate target. They are never a legitimate target, but they have been targeted nonetheless. And what they're doing with targeting the energy infrastructure, leaving people to freeze in their homes, is absolutely inconceivable and cannot be forgotten, cannot be overlooked. And here, what we see, for example, in many countries, Romania as well, is the effort of the civil society, of people stepping up, transferring money, or collectively buying generators. In Romania, 60 such generators have been put together. They're now at the Ukrainian Embassy in Romania to be given to Ukraine. And this is the effort of society as such. Our Ministry of Energy has traveled to Ukraine this week to Be able to advance the conversation that was already said by our presidents, by President Yukushordan and President Zelensky in our decision to invest in the connection points in the energy grid, to be able in the future to have a more easily accessible energy market between.
- [37:29]
Francis Durnley
Between us. We've mentioned on the podcast the work of Romania that you've just described. But following the logic that you've just said that Russia doesn't seem to be focused on peace, that it is escalating in many respects. Surely there is an argument here that Romania needs to be doing much more in coordination with Europe to put a pressure on Russia. I mean, you said you're optimistic about peace, but where does the optimism come from, given that I said we have.
- [37:52]
Narrator/Host
To be optimistic, okay, I use the verb we have, have to be optimistic. Because it is impossible to ignore the energy, the effort, the sacrifice that the Ukrainians are doing and the fact that they hope and work towards peace. So we cannot be put less energy into it than they do in terms of saying we have trust in the plans. And also that's one thing. But I have also said that you look at Russia, what they're doing and what they're doing is not signaling for peace. So in the same time, you can be optimistic in the sense of allocating energy in that direction. And for us, it means increasing the pressure, pressure on Russia and helping with the resilience of the Ukrainian society. But it also means you have to be realistic. And we do not see signals from Russia to expect peace soon, but we hope and work for it in terms of what can be done more to increase the pressure on Russia. We are just finishing now a new package of sanctions at the European Union level. Part of the conversations I've had in the United States are also on the increased power we have if we coordinate our sanctions. This is very important. In Romania's case at the end of last year, we have transferred the consequences for eluding actions from what was previously just a financial fine that a lot could potentially afford to actual potential jail time for those that coordinate to go around sanctions.
- [39:18]
Francis Durnley
Because there would be some that would argue that to be unduly optimistic is not, not realistic. But I think you've tried to navigate what your position is.
- [39:26]
Narrator/Host
I think there's a difference between optimism and to be optimistic and to be naive. None of the countries on the eastern flank are ever naive when it comes to Russia.
- [39:34]
Francis Durnley
Fair and just. Looking at the nature of the Russian threat, we know that there's of course been deliberate strategy from Moscow to stir up issues around migration and freedom of movement with Schengen. I wonder if you can just talk about Romania's experience of the. That.
- [39:48]
Narrator/Host
Well, we have just recently joined Schengen and we're grateful for that. But also we're in a situation in which we have complied with the technical criteria for a long, long time. And we have had this experience as a country where our accession to Schengen was blocked a couple of years more than would have been the case due to a lot of the narratives that was stirred around the topic that were very different on the actual data, responsibility and the good work we were doing on our board. So I think this is something we're going to see throughout time in the future as well. And here it's always useful for people to look at the actual data.
- [40:28]
Francis Durnley
Could you give your strategic assessment of the Russian Black Sea fleet?
- [40:33]
Narrator/Host
Well, we are, as you know, at the Black Sea and we've worked a lot with Bulgaria and Turkey, for example, to coordinate our actions in terms of demining. Now we're working to advance that to protect the undersea cable, something that is very important. If you look at the potential of the Black Sea now, you don't see a lot of activity from Russia. The Black Sea, it's not their preferred sea either in terms of the shadow vessels, although there are some. Some cases there as well. But I think it's very important to be able to coordinate more in terms of the defense of the Black Sea. And I think in our case we are monitoring the. The shadow fleet closely because we also have the Constanza harbor where we want to make sure there's a very clear monitoring. So as we do not have the shadow fleet use the port and this.
- [41:20]
Francis Durnley
Has been the case so far, the election that you. I don't want to put words in your mouth. Cancelled. Would that be a fair. The result that was cancelled as a.
- [41:31]
Narrator/Host
In the 2024 elections we have had the breach of the law that was in place at the election, specifically on illegal financing. That was a key, a key factor. So the election were done again and that has been already a year and more.
- [41:48]
Francis Durnley
Yes, yes. I didn't want to put words in your mouth, hence my hesitancy to use that word cancel. But it's been an election that has been used to attack Romania a lot by some countries and people have called the country anti democratic as a result.
- [42:01]
Narrator/Host
Of this Russia country that has attacked Romania or used that topic.
- [42:05]
Francis Durnley
Well, there are prominent voices within European figures, political figures and indeed in Russian propaganda expression. Yes.
- [42:13]
Narrator/Host
And Russia, this is not a topic of conversation between countries.
- [42:16]
Francis Durnley
Sure. Okay.
- [42:17]
Narrator/Host
Well, Russia, it's the topic of commentators as individual voices.
- [42:21]
Francis Durnley
Well, and some political figures in Europe who may or may not be in positions of power. But nonetheless, I just wanted to give you the opportunity to explain that election and what happened.
- [42:31]
Narrator/Host
Well, I think that is already a past episode. A long time has passed and also it has been clarified. Our president has brought forward one of the reports from the court in Romania, and he has also taken the commitment to publish a more detailed report. And here the Romanian society is quite keen to have those details, to be able to, well, also have them in the conversations with their counterparts. But that is a past episode. I would say, though, that it remains an open lesson in the sense in which we also need to be aware of the level of risk that is posed upon democracies. And we also need to collaborate and have, have more in depth conversations of what are the proper instruments to prevent that, what is the proper instrument to raise the resilience of societies? And how is it that we coordinate among ourselves to be able to share what we have learned, share what we observe. So we're able to better assign not just the authors of those type of malign interferences, but also be able to counter that phenomenon, because I think this is something that, that we see in many countries. And as I have mentioned, UK has been instrumental in initiating a common statement at the NATO level that Romania has joined as well. The European Commission has also had, fortunately enough, in the same day, one rare example of coordination between these entities in terms of signaling in the same time, the same message. Also a common statement in assigning practically what we, we see as a setup of hybrid interferences.
- [44:07]
Francis Durnley
Well, a country that's certainly also been very vocal on this is neighboring Moldova. And the president there, Maya Sandu, she said recently that she would vote for reunification with Romania. What's your view on that?
- [44:19]
Narrator/Host
It's a political signal from President Maya Sandu. But practically, what is the path ahead? And I've been recently with the Prime Minister of Republic of Moldova in Davos in the same panel, and we have answered the same question and we both see things in the same direction, which is the European Union integration. And I think President Maya Sandow wants you to give a very strong political signal of the fact that that is the path for Moldova.
- [44:42]
Francis Durnley
And one final question for me, before I give you an opportunity to talk about anything that we've not touched on, can you just tell me a little bit about the Romanian diaspora in Ukraine? It's not something that's spoken about very much. But I think it would be quite interesting for listeners to hear about that.
- [44:54]
Narrator/Host
Well, we have a very lively community of Romanian speaking citizens there in Ukraine. This is due to historic factors, mostly for anyone that's a student of history, they know that those territories have been disputed and they have a complex history. I have visited our Romanians in Chernobyl. It's actually my first visit there, together with Andriy Sbiha, the Minister of Foreign affairs of Ukraine, and Mihaly Popshoi, the Minister of Foreign affairs of Moldova, because it was very important to bring them together with me in the community, to experience the community directly, firsthand. We also had have common cultural figures. Mihail Minesku, which is our national poet, has studied there as well and has lived for a time there. The Romanian language is very, very important for us. And I have spoken with Ukrainian officials on the potential to assign a national day, as we have in Romania, for example, a national day assigned to the Ukrainian language. Now, this is not without a challenge though, specifically as it is a time of war for us, the priorities to also protect our communities by supporting the overall resilience that can lead to peace. But there are also now a lot of heated conversations around the education reform, for example, where our communities are very keen on the fact that they want the schools that now have the Romanian language in the curriculum to remain at the status that they currently have. Ukraine is going through a process of educational reform the that by 2027 is going to see some high schools to be assigned as academic high schools. And for that they have a certain number of minimum number of students. Whereas what we're discussing with them is the stance of our communities that say rightfully so, and we support that the minority communities should have lower thresholds, so they're able to maintain that we're able to maintain the Romanian language in the education system, that our communities have access to what they currently have and more. And here we're also investing through the government programs for support in that direction. And this is something that's still a conversation, very heated conversation for us, because it's very important that we share this concept in which the language that they speak there is important not just as a cultural item, but is important in, in the day to day practice of the educational access that they have. And also something that's also important for us in the Romanian language is the religious part. The churches that have Sunday sermons in Romanian and have that relationship with the community that's also very, very important.
- [47:36]
Francis Durnley
And is there Anything that we've not spoken about that you would like to discuss?
- [47:39]
Narrator/Host
Well, I think something that is rarely spoken about but that it's very important is to be able to also keep the economy going because for a lot of the citizens there, their livelihood depends on the economic flows that Ukraine is connected with. And here there are a couple of things where we also invest in the direction of a better economic integration that contributes to all communities. First is the Constana harbor, which has been absolutely essential in terms of the the exports of the Ukrainian grains and we have been grateful to be able to help in that manner. And that's something that we want to invest more in, to be able to have the commercial flows going and also in terms of reconstruction, to be able to have it as a logistical hub there. And also we're investing in the border infrastructure, but also in terms of transportation, the highways from Romania to be better connected with with parts of Ukraine and Moldova. When I've been to Kiev and Chernowitz, I was mentioning before, we've launched together with Andriy and Mihaly new train ride from Kyiv to Chisino to Bucharest and we want to make sure that we advance the economic opportunities through those logistical integrations as well.
- [48:56]
Francis Durnley
Can't resist. One more question. Ukraine in NATO, yes or no?
- [49:00]
Narrator/Host
Well, here it's a way more complicated question that's now on the table of the peace conversations and we've always said we are supporting Ukraine. Ukraine stands in those negotiations.
- [49:09]
Francis Durnley
Thank you very much for your time, Minister.
- [49:11]
Narrator/Host
Thank you.
- [49:17]
Francis Durnley
Ukraine. The latest is an original podcast from the Telegraph created by David Knowles to support our work and stay on top of all of our Ukraine news, analysis and dispatches from the ground. Please subscribe to the Telegraph. You can get one month free then two months for just pound one at www.telegraph.co.uk UkraineTheLast. Deploying cutting edge technology, we also release Ukrainian and Russian versions of this podcast. These translations retain our voices and delivery so that it can reach listeners in every region of Ukraine and those parts of Eastern Europe where Russian is still widely spoken. Links to those can be found in the podcast description to this episode. You can also now sign up to the New Ukraine, the latest weekly newsletter. Each week Dom Nicholls and I answer your questions, provide recommended reading and give exclusive analysis and behind the scenes insights plus maps of the front lines and diagrams of weapons to complement our daily reporting. It's free for everyone including non subscribers. You can find the link to sign up in the descriptions for this episode. We regularly have a Ukraine Live blog on our website where you can follow updates as they come in throughout the day, including insights from regular contributors to this podcast. We also do the same for other breaking international stories. If you appreciate our work, please consider following Ukraine the latest on your preferred podcast app and leave us a review as it really helps others find the show. Please also share it with those who may not be aware we exist. You can also get in touch directly to ask questions or give comments by emailing ukrainepodelegraph.co. we continue to read every message. You can also contact us directly on X. You'll find our handles in the description for this episode. As ever, we're especially interested to hear where you're listening from around the world. Ukraine the latest was today, produced by Phil Atkins. Executive producers are Francis Durnley, Louisa Wells and David Knowles.
- [51:16]
David Knowles
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David Knowles
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