← Ukraine: The Latest
Ukraine: The Latest
Russian army suffers highest daily loss of the year & the horror of friendly fire with Hamish de Bretton-Gordon and James Hewitt
00:42:35
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- [00:04]
Hamish De Breton Gordon
The telegraph.
- [00:09]
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- [00:39]
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- [02:00]
David Knowles
La prova de color detective. Nous escolo garcianes enfermedadi inflammatory intestinal isierto syndrome Es hereditarios o unistorial Persona familiar de cancer de colon para mas Informacion en cologuardpun.com Diagonal Preva. I'm Dom Nichols, and this is Ukraine. The latest today. After Russia suffers the highest daily loss of personnel so far this year, it's no surprise the head of their armed forces, General Valeriy Gerasimov, is repeating out of date information to try to convince his boss that everything's going swimmingly at the front. We report how a stricken Russian shadow fleet tanker adrift in the Mediterranean may cause a disaster of unprecedented proportions. And how President Zelensky has shown live battlefield footage from his iPad to Britain's parliament to try to show what war in the 21st century looks like. And later, I speak to the Make a Difference foundation about their work supporting Ukrainian families fleeing the war.
- [03:19]
Volodymyr Zelenskyy
Bravery takes you through the most unimaginable hardships to finally reward you with victory.
- [03:29]
James Hewitt
Russia does not want peace.
- [03:39]
Volodymyr Zelenskyy
If I'm president, I will have that
- [03:41]
James Hewitt
war settled in one day. 24 hours.
- [03:43]
David Knowles
We are with you, not just today or tomorrow, but for 100 years.
- [03:52]
James Hewitt
On Ukraine. Nobody's going to break us. We're strong. We're Ukrainians.
- [03:58]
David Knowles
It's Wednesday, the 18th of March, four years and 22 days since the full scale invasion began. And today I'm joined by former Royal Armored Corps officers Hamish De Breton Gordon and James Hewitt. I started with the latest from the battlefield. Okay, let's go over to the east. There is still fighting to the east and the southeast of Kupyansk. This is right over in the east of the country. Ukrainian Joint Forces task Force spokesperson Colonel Viktor Treobov said that roughly 20 Russian service members still remain in central Kupiansk, but they can't get out of the town and are therefore cut off from ground supplies, relying entirely on drone drops. Now, we've been reporting that for some time about this presence, this very small presence still in Kupyansk. I think it's interesting that they are relying on drone drops, not only because that's the modern face of war, but also because that Ukraine is either, well, clearly not able to kill those remaining soldiers or stop the drones that are getting in. It just speaks for how contested the airspace is on a micro level. And I'll be interested to talk to the chaps here in a moment about this sort of novel idea of micro air superiority with drones a little bit later. Now, elsewhere in the Donbas, fighting continues. Lyman in particular, we've been talking about that for some weeks now. That's been under extreme pressure. But a Ukrainian spokesperson yesterday said there is no Russian presence in the the city itself. Now, this is despite the head of the Russian Armed Forces, General Valery Gerasimov on Monday reiterating a claim he made in December that Russian forces control over half of Lyman. Now, he was visiting Russian troops in Ukraine yesterday. He reheated that old claim to try to give the impression that his forces are rapidly advancing across the battlefield. As well as talking about Lyman, he rattled off a load of other settlements that Russia has apparently taken, some of which have no evidence whatsoever of Russian presence. And others are just tiny collections of houses on the border, not quite the mega cities that Gerasimov would have us, or more importantly for him, Putin believe. Now, slightly further south in the Donbas, and a spokesperson for a Ukrainian brigade operating in the Konstantinivka Druzhkivka area. So that's at the base, the southern end of the fortress belt. They said yesterday that Russian forces are continuing to try to push there. They are using artillery, drones, small infantry groups and mechanised assaults. So mechanised vehicles that don't often get through the drone swarm, but they're using all these things to try to break through Ukrainian defences. They were not successful. But I note the use of a lot of different types of military capability, which speaks of some effort to try and get combined arms maneuvering again. So using all the different pieces of the orchestra, as we call it, although it was unsuccessful. Now, to the southwest, there have been some small geolocated advances by Ukraine. This is in the area of Dobropia, where Ukrainian counterattacks have been taking place. No large moves, however, that alone makes it all the more staggering that Ukrainian mod, which is largely taken to be a reliable source for these statistics, said that yesterday 1,710 Russians became casualties, dead, wounded, missing or taken prisoner. Now, that is the highest daily loss for this year, a staggering amount. We've been saying for weeks now that there's a lot of violence at the front, even though the lines aren't moving a great deal, but this 1700 is a huge number. So I was looking around for some kind of explanation as to why that may be, and it looks as if this much vaunted Russian spring offensive may, may have come out the blocks. I think it came out the blocks a bit half cocked, but may have done. There's a report from Ukraine's Unmanned Systems Forces that say that 900 Russians were killed yesterday by their drones well over the period of one and a half days down in the southwest of the country, down in the area of Dnipropetrovsk and your border area. They said the sudden change in weather over the last couple of days meant that the enemy's planned and somewhat premature launch of the spring summer campaign prompted them to resume assault operations under cover of the long awaited March weather. It's a bit of a mangled sentence, but basically they're saying that they tried to launch it in the better weather. They say the old military doctrine of relying on invisibility should have worked. They said that just before midnight yesterday. So midnight Tuesday, Monday, Tuesday, the first pre infiltrated assault units, which had been in reserve, began their advance in the drizzle and encountered drones. Over a hundred well armed enemy soldiers were knocked to the ground before midnight. Then at dawn yesterday, they say the enemy launched a gas attack with accumulated infantry, motorcycles, armor and even horses. Simultaneously on a dozen sections, but then over 500 of them were killed yesterday morning. They said the fog of varying densities did not disappear until now. So the night of March 18th, that's last night, Tuesday, Wednesday dragged on, albeit with less compression. But by midday today, at their time, another 277 enemy soldiers had been eliminated. So I think that whatever's happening in the southwest of the country doesn't seem to be successful for Russia, but does probably account for the majority of those 1700 casualties across the rest of Ukraine. 19 of 147 drones got through, causing deaths and injuries across the country, which is low compared to recent days, thankfully. However, I'm just going to pause there. James and Hamish, I'll be interested in your view that that figure. 1,710 Russian casualties, mostly by drones. It is a staggering number for. For what we've seen in recent months. But it just speaks of how hard it is to get that combined arms assault that I was talking about earlier on going again. And unless you've totally suppressed these drone units or they are suppressed by the fog, which is what we've seen for the last few weeks, it seems almost impossible to get through. Is this just a fact of war now that if there's good weather, there's drones you can't move?
- [09:47]
Hamish De Breton Gordon
Perhaps I'll come in first. Isn't it staggering? Had you not mentioned drones, we could be talking about the Sommel Passchendaele. You've got combined arms, including horses, inching along and taking casualties at the rate and gas. A thousand a day and gas, it could be the same now. Drones stand faster. Drones. But I suppose my observation on the drones. I remember being an istar intelligence surveillance, target acquisition reconnaissance expert for CGS's battlefield tour in Berlin. I think in 2008, CGS being the
- [10:23]
David Knowles
Chief of the General Staff, the head of the army, just as we were
- [10:26]
Hamish De Breton Gordon
getting into drones, and I was commenting on the general's defensive plan, which he entirely relied on drones to key assets onto it. And it was a classic German day. The clouds were literally hanging on top of the trees. And I said, maybe the generals spent far too long in Afghanistan and Iraq, where the clear blue skies and of course we can see nothing. So I think it is staggering. That's where we are. And you say about the Jew and everything else not affecting drones, crikey, we're in a very different environment, but same casualties as 110 years ago.
- [11:00]
David Knowles
James, you're fought in Gulf one. Have drones removed surprise from the battlefield?
- [11:05]
James Hewitt
We didn't have Anything like that at all there. I think we got intelligence reports from satellite and other manned aerial vehicles. We didn't really have to deal with drones at all. They would have made a big difference, particularly in the desert, because the weather would be conducive to drone warfare. Yeah, it would change altogether. I left in 2000, so you did so much more than I would have done in that respect. What did strike me in that figure is just the scale of the number. And it could be taking us back to the First World War, operating from trenches, trench warfare and the ghastness of that and the fact those numbers are becoming normalized. Seemingly nobody's picking them up. Nobody's thinking of why are the Russians
- [11:57]
Hamish De Breton Gordon
not picking it up when The Russians lost 17,000 in Afghanistan in, in 1984, the Babushkas marched on the Kremlin. So are you saying anything why the Russians are accepting?
- [12:08]
David Knowles
Well, we've been reporting on the shutdown of Telegram and Starlink and this push by the Russian authorities to try and get everyone onto their state controlled media max, which is undoubtedly a way of controlling the flow of information. I think it all feeds into the
- [12:22]
James Hewitt
need to work hard at that because they seem to have won the propaganda war and we haven't countered that. That's a huge error on the West's behalf. I think to not have picked that up sooner and worked hard at it. You're doing as best you can here and thank goodness for that. But it's become normalized in the media
- [12:45]
David Knowles
and more so than that, not only are the numbers normalized, but also the idea that actually the majority of these casualties are dead rather than injured. It completely turned on its head.
- [12:53]
James Hewitt
Even if they're not injured, I mean, I can't imagine what their chances of recovery would be. Put it that way, and then die a ghastly painful death. It's not very nice at all.
- [13:05]
David Knowles
But my point is that if you're hit by a drone, you're not injured. That's it, you're toast, you're done. So the majority of these people are dead, I think. Let me carry on with the news. So a stricken Russian Shadow Fleet tanker adrift in the Mediterranean could cause a disaster of unprecedented proportions, according to politicians in Malta. Now they warn that the Arctic Metagas we spoke about this last week. It is or was carrying over 60,000 tons of liquefied natural gas and 700 tons of diesel fuel. It's drifting towards Malta after being allegedly attacked by Ukrainian seaborne drones earlier this month. Ukraine haven't commented on it. Russia has blamed Ukraine, but we don't actually know who did it. I think it probably was Ukraine anyway. Yes. So you'll remember the ship's 30 crew were evacuated, so the tanker is now empty and drifting towards Malta, where it said it could impact the country's fisheries and tourism. Plus huge quantities of leaking fuel could also affect the island's desalination plants. Now, Momentum, that's a political party in Malta, a centrist political party, sort of 10 to left. They champion environmental issues. They're pointing this out. They say the ecological implications of are disastrous. Malta ranks among the top 10 countries globally for water scarcity, depending almost entirely on desalination plants for drinking water. Any pollution of the surrounding sea resulting from a maritime attack or sunken vessel would mean our taps run dry, they say. The party called on the Maltese government to explain what the plan is to deal with the tanker. Now the next one. Speaking yesterday, former Russian Defence Minister and now Kremlin Security Council secretary Sergei Shoigu. Remember him? He highlighted the effectiveness of Ukraine's long range missile and drone attacks. Somewhat surprisingly, he said Ukrainian airstrikes against Russian infrastructure had increased almost fourfold over the last year, up to 23,000. That's up from about 6,000 the year before. And he said that even the Ural region, right in the middle of Russia is now in the immediate threat zone. That's more than 1500 kilometers from the Ukrainian border. He's calling it the immediate threat zone. He said that region being a major hub on the road and rail transportation network, is a prime target. He said disabling them, those transportation networks, disabling them could not only cause significant economic damage, but also disrupt major metropolitan areas and key supply chains, including those essential to supporting the special military operation. Now, this somewhat bizarrely off message report came. He was saying that Ukrainian forces are primarily targeting military sites, transportation networks and energy facilities. Slightly odd. They normally say they're targeting nunneries and schools, but there we go. Now, the Institute for the Study of War, the US based think tank, suggests Shoigu's unexpected openness in highlighting the impact of the war affects all of Russia rather than just the border regions near the front line is potentially an effort to justify future rolling mobilization. And these continued Internet shutdowns that we've been seeing and commenting on, if they're not, then surely he's got a date with a window or an interview with polonium laced coffee. Hamish, you've probably had a few interviews without coffee in your time, haven't you?
- [16:16]
Hamish De Breton Gordon
Certainly. And as many as you, I Expect Tom. Luckily, none of them containing polonium. But yeah, I wrote a piece in the paper about two or three weeks ago about the, the sort of stealth way or mobilization by stealth. I think the line was that actually an awful lot of young boys and girls are coming in to do their service. But it's supposed to be home service in the back counting the blankets and suddenly they're finding actually those blankets are in Ukraine and they're at the front line. And on the piece, the clever statisticians here at the Telegraph put a metric up of where all the casualties come from. And about 90% were starting 400 miles east of Russia. So rural, ethnic and I think maybe this is what Shoigu, our old chum, is trying to cover up.
- [17:02]
David Knowles
Yeah, he's been wheeled out to, to start breaking the bad news. He's clearly in hock still to Putin because one of his defense ministers, former deputy defense ministers, was arrested last week. Sure, he's still on the rack for something. So I guess he's been wheeled out to, to take the heat for this. We shall see. Now onto the diplomatic front. And President Zelensky is in Spain today. I've already seen an announcement out of that visit. Spain has announced a 1 billion euro. That's about the same US$1.2 billion military aid package for Ukraine. So that's happened just in the last couple of hours. But yesterday he was in London where President Zelenskyy met with Prime Minister Keir Starmer and also NATO Secretary General Mark Rutter. He then trotted off, met the king and signed a drone deal with the United Kingdom, not with the king, signed that separately, but met the king anyway. He later addressed MPs in Parliament where he plugged his iPad. He plugged his iPad into a screen and showed in real time the battlefield. He then said, this is an iPad with software that lets us control our security in real time. I have one, my Prime Minister has one, our Minister of Defense and our top military commanders. It lets us see the front line in Ukraine and even every enemy killed with video proof. It also shows every strike in our skies, our sea area and our long range strikes against Russia. Now I reckon he was dialed into their Delta system because when I was in Zaporizhzhia a couple of weeks ago, I was looking at their, the battle space management systems called Delta. And yes, I was able to zoom in on every Russian casualty and it gives you the time date stamp of exactly when that was hit and then shows you the video because it's normally taken from a drone of how that happened. That's how we get the statistics of the daily casualties. I don't think President Zelensky went to that degree in Parliament yesterday, but he showed them a lot of good graphics now. He said President Zelensky said right now 90 of Russian losses on the front are caused by our drones. That's got a little bit of comment. I think that's a little bit Toppy. Jack Watling, beefy brainbox land warfare expert at the rusi, the Royal United Services Institute, he put a tweet out in response to that. He said stats from the armed forces of Ukraine last week had casualties. Artillery accounting for just over 20%, drones just over 3/4 75.4% and small arms as in rifles and stuff, 4%. He said that excludes mines except for some drone delivered mines which are in the drone numbers. But anyway he was saying drones accounting for about 3/4 75%. So potentially President Zelensky is a little bit toppy saying 90% but still staggering numbers. Now the whole thing there to Parliament was in some ways a sales pitch, you might say to other countries, especially those in the Gulf. Right now he was basically saying, you help us and we'll help you. He said the capacity for of Ukraine's military industrial complex. They can produce 2000 interceptor drones a day, he said, for which Ukraine needs 1000. That is freeing up a thousand for any partners who want to come and buy them. Here's what he said.
- [19:58]
Volodymyr Zelenskyy
We are capable of producing at least 2000 effective and combat proven interceptors every day. We can produce more. It depends on investment. We need about 1,000 interceptors a day and we can supply at least another 1,000 a day to our allies. Second, we know how to build radar and acoustic coverage to respond how Shaheeds and other drones approach sword. We have software that allows radars to keep working even on the electronic warfare jamming in real time. We analyze enemy frequencies and respond to them. And because of this system we understand how effective our defense is against almost every every attack drones and we can move our positions and air defense to get better results. This iPad gives full control of the situation because we have a system for using our defense tools. If Shahid needs to be stopped in Emirates, we can do it. If it needs to be stopped in Europe or United Kingdom, we can do it. It's a matter of technology investment and cooperation. And the fact that we go through this winter which Russia tried to make deadly for all our families, shows that our solutions work
- [21:24]
David Knowles
now afterwards he added Europe Must prepare for drone strikes by terrorists and criminals. And on that point, related from the Gulf, you may have seen this extraordinary footage of a first person view drone scouting out the US Embassy in Baghdad. It comes from yesterday, apparently completely unmolested as it's flying along. And it eventually fires the US Embassy. It wants to attack, but it's airborne for quite some time over the military base. It appears the world isn't ready for this, despite four years of watching this drone evolution in Ukraine. So people saying it would never happen here, we don't need to prepare for it. It's absolutely staggering how these things are fairly. We now talk about first person view drones and fiber optic control drones as pretty basic stuff. This is just the common currency of drones. And yet it's taking people by surprise in the Gulf, taking the US by surprise, because these things can attack the US Embassy. Absolutely staggering stuff, guys. The Ministry is often bashed for not learning lessons, but as I said, this has been four years in the offing. Am I being too harsh here? Is it you, when you really start to learn lessons and find workarounds, when the shooting starts now, you've been under fire much more than I ever have. Is that when all the past assumptions go out the window and you think, blimey, how are we going to adapt to this new threat?
- [22:36]
James Hewitt
We can't without funds. Basically, the masters are the politicians and I think it's easy to criticize and to kick the generals and the naval officers and the Air Force officers in charge, but they can only do so much with the little they've got and it's not enough. I think that needs to be shouted loudly and clearly as well. That's what I feel about it. I think that they don't get the support and I think it's always playing catch up. I don't think our industry has got enough future idea. It's all very well saying they should develop these items, but unless they can sell them to the buyers, the British government, if you like, then they're hardly going to start developing if there's no outlet for it.
- [23:30]
David Knowles
Hamish, you're the commanding officer of a unit in the British Army. So when a bright young non commissioned officer came up with an idea and you put your name stamp on it and then sent it up this chain, did you find an open door? Was the MOD willing to take these ideas on board, invest in them and see how they work, experiment?
- [23:45]
Hamish De Breton Gordon
That's a really good point, Tom and I, I just. Come on. I like the idea of Zielinski taking A laptop into the Houses of Parliament minute, you know, if you or I took our laptop into the mod, we'd be down the salt mines before we could blink sort of thing. So that's amused me. Slight I would Strategic Defense Review, which we've all written about it actually I think it's pretty good. Talks about 80% lethality from drones. Francis and I went down to the Land Warfare center before Christmas. Land exploitation, what lessons we're learning. Actually they appear to be learning all the right things. But I think what James says and what your point are absolutely bang on are these bright ideas getting to the right place. We remember the inertia of the chain of command and it's really difficult and without the resources that are there to say, yeah, Hewitt, bloody good idea, go and here's the check, get on go and give it a go. And I think, funny, I just had lunch with some Americans and talking about a different type of capability. But the idea was that they were very much, yeah, we're trying to develop this surveillance device for a certain capability. And the American government said right, here's X dollars, go away, if it works, come back and we'll give you more sort of thing. Now I'm not sure that sort of thing happens here with the Ministry of Defense. Not because they don't want to do it because as James says there is not money. And I personally, if the Strategic defense. No end user, but if the Strategic Defense Review is properly funded to 5% now, not in 19, in 2035, then yeah, we can start doing stuff. But you can't do stuff with thin air. The boys and girls on the ground I think are really trying hard to stay up with the pace. And there are Ukrainians at the Land Warfare Center. I don't think I'm breaking any sort of confidential deals here that are training us and we are learning. Yeah.
- [25:42]
David Knowles
Now one more for me for. I'd like to talk to James about the foundation. We need to talk about the Druzhpa pipeline. So this is very serious. I don't want to say saga, but that sounds too glib. But this is very serious and it's been rumbling on for quite a while while now. The latest is that Ursula von der Leyen, the president of the EU Commission and Antonio Costa, the president of the European Council have put out a joint statement yesterday. They say following the renewed Russian strikes on January 27 on the Druzhba pipeline leading to the interruption of crude oil supplies to Hungary and Slovakia, we have engaged in intense discussions with member states and Ukraine at all levels to restore the flow of oil to Hungary and Slovakia. The EU has offered Ukraine technical support and funding. The Ukrainians have welcomed and accepted this offer. European experts are available immediately. Our priority is to ensure energy security for all European citizens. In this sense we will continue to work with the concerned parties on alternative routes for the transit of non Russian crude oil to the countries of Central and Eastern Europe. So let's just break this down. So Russia bombed the pipeline. Hungary and Slovakia threw their toys out the cot and still wanted to buy Russian oil. The money from that trade would go by Russia to fund the war against Ukraine. Hungary and Slovakia hold up the 90 billion EU loan to Ukraine. Then the EU offers Ukraine technical support and funding to get the oil flowing again to Hungary and Slovakia, thereby allowing money to flow to Russia again. I think I've got that right. That's essentially what's happening here. So that just seems daft to be. But also, where's the funding coming from? If the EU is now going to fund the fixing this Druzhpa pipeline, where is that funding coming from? So explain to me how this is not the case, that EU taxpayers money is going to, in a slightly different form, end up in the Kremlin? Because if this EU money has to be used, why not use the frozen Russian assets or make the transaction conditional on Hungary and Slovakia agreeing to the 90 billion loan? I think it's absolutely extraordinary that the EU is now paying to fix a pipeline that Russia bombed because Hungary and Slovakia have like say, throwing the toys out the cot. Anyway, Kyiv has accepted the EU's offer of assistance in restoring oil transit to Europe via the pipeline. President Zelenskyy wrote a letter to EU leaders yesterday. He said, I welcome and accept your offer of the necessary technical support and funding to be able to conclude the repair work as well as to explore the longer term sustainable solutions. Fine, longer term sustainable solutions is the other mechanisms. But they're fixing this pipeline that Russia bombed just so Hungary and Slovakia can then pay money to the Kremlin. I really don't understand that. But no doubt Viktor Orban will paint this as some sort of massive victory. And I can't say I massively disagree. I'll get your thoughts on a moment gents on that. But it comes as half of Ukrainians consider Hungary a hostile nation. This is according to a new survey conducted by Gradus Research Co. Shared with the Kyiv Independent today. The survey that was about 1,000 people aged between 18 to 60 between February 13th and the 16th found that 50% of Ukrainians viewed Hungary as hostile. That's up. Up from March last year. Up 3% from March last year. And that was before all this. The recent developments about the pipeline and the block on the 90 million was worked its way through other countries that were hostile to Ukraine, Iran 52, North Korea 57 and Belarus 72. I'm not quite sure why. I presume they excluded Russia from that calculus because it'd be pretty obvious where everyone put their vote. But I'd be interested in the question because Belarus 72%. Even if you exclude Russia, I'd be surprised that Belarus was so strongly the next country. But anyway, as ever, it's lies down lies and statistics. But I'll be interested in the question that was asked. But Hungary. This is extraordinary, isn't it? I've got that Russia bombed the pipeline, EU's paying to fix it, and then Hungary and Slovakia can pay money to the Kremlin. Is that how you're seeing it, chaps?
- [29:43]
Hamish De Breton Gordon
Is that can't be right, Dom? It's bonkers. And as you mentioned, whatever it is, the 200 billion of Russian frozen assets in the Belgian bank, why isn't that being used? But I might have got it wrong. But didn't the Belgian Prime Minister this week suggest that they should normalise relations with the Russians?
- [29:59]
David Knowles
Bart Avaeva said that it's time for the EU to speak to Russia now. I asked President Alexander Stube of Finland that exact question yesterday. I said, is he right? How far do you agree with Bart Nova that now is the time? And he basically said, it is the time, but it shouldn't be done on a bilateral basis, as some countries have done in the past, and more recently France, Hungary and Slovakia. But he said it should be done institutionally. So the EU or some transnational body. But we're looking at the EU here. But no, Alexander Stuart was in favor of that, but extraordinary stuff. Extraordinary stuff. Anyway, now I'd like to talk, James, about the Make A Difference Foundation. I'm delighted that we have a brace of cavalry officers here. Sorry, a brace of tank commanders. There's only two. Two Curry officers here, thank God three of you include the People's Cavalry. Hamish, you're obviously welcome to join in if you're able to, but James, retired cavalry officer in the British Army. I'm told you nearly killed Hamish in Gulf 1. Perhaps we can explore that a little bit, a little bit later.
- [30:53]
James Hewitt
That's tempting. It was an extraordinary situation. At the time, I didn't know Hamish was amongst the group of tanks. Who had been told, no uncertain terms, to attack and get on with it. Repeatedly told to stop dilly dang, stop being a coward. That came over the air.
- [31:12]
David Knowles
Wow.
- [31:12]
James Hewitt
And get on with it to you
- [31:13]
David Knowles
as a squadron commander.
- [31:15]
James Hewitt
I was commanding as a squadron leader then. And, yeah, it's very difficult in the fog of war, but I knew where we were. Eventually we determined that from my forward observation officer, who helped establish that fact, and the very limited GPS we had very basic but yum. So I said no. And then we were informed that actually there were friendly forces to our front, including one of the tanks. Was Hamish's there?
- [31:45]
Hamish De Breton Gordon
It was, Yeah. B Squadron, 1420 Czars, and General Richard Sharif, who you've had on Ukraine the latest, a number of times. He was the commander. And the whole episode is told in my book, which the telegraph is serializing. So thank you very much to the Telegraph in a few months time. But everybody's heard, I'm sure, about Blue on blue. And these things do happen. And if you're not as rigorous as James was that night. We had our 35th anniversary two weeks ago. And in the 14 20th czars, we have a silver chamber pot, which was Napoleon's chamber pot. And each dinner night, each year, when we celebrate this, you drink to somebody. And this year, James, it was to you. Because there were at least 14 of us sat around that table who, if James had made the wrong decision.
- [32:36]
James Hewitt
Thank you.
- [32:36]
Hamish De Breton Gordon
Probably wouldn't be here.
- [32:38]
David Knowles
Blue on Blue being the fracture site, accidental shooting of your own size in the confusion. So you weren't mixed up amongst Iraqi tanks. You were, James. You were looking at your togs, your thermal observation and gunnery site. Your thermal site. You could see these heat signatures. You knew there were tanks.
- [32:55]
James Hewitt
We'd just gone through one objective and we were reorganizing and about. We're about to move off. And I was trying to establish. Make sure I knew where we were going and where we were leaving from. But B Squadron, 1420th, slightly geographically embarrassed, to put it kindly, or their position had been reported incorrectly. That's a better way.
- [33:19]
Hamish De Breton Gordon
That's a bit more.
- [33:20]
James Hewitt
Yeah.
- [33:20]
Hamish De Breton Gordon
Fog of war, James. Fog of war. The general will have you go for garter.
- [33:24]
James Hewitt
No, I would hate that. And I like Richard very much. And anyway, so what was staggering was what I was being told over the radio net. And I was told I was going to be relieved of my command in field, which wouldn't have been very good for my career. What mess I made anyway. But it wouldn't have been the best thing for Anyone, to be honest, and had a huge belief that I was right. I had a huge belief in myself to be able to. To do it. I had amazing concerns and worries. I remember 24 hours before we were given the green light to go into the war. I was lying in my hammock and thinking. I was feeling very relaxed. And then a huge wave, fearful, tangible fear gripped me. And I wouldn't wish that on anybody or certainly I would recommend that any who's going to militarily command should have that kind of experience. Because if you can then resolve those feelings inside and come to terms with it, that wave just disappears. And you think, God, I've been put here for a reason and this is gonna work out. Of course, it did go slightly hither and thither to a degree, but you have that incredible belief in yourself and in your men and in your equipment that you can do what you're being asked to do. Hugely important, I think, to be able to instill that into anybody who's being asked to lead in any aspect.
- [35:03]
David Knowles
It's interesting the way you talk about fear there. I still feel fear when we go to Ukraine. I still feel fear every time. It's not like some of the times in the military, but it's still tangible. And I've. I've developed the. For me, it works for me, this technique of not trying to run away from it, but as I think, as you were describing there, yeah, face, face it. And I say to the fear, I acknowledge your existence, I acknowledge your power. I'm not trying to diminish what you are, because that way it will just consume you. And I say, I'm going to put you in this box. I'm going to put you in this box. I'm going to put the box off to one side in my mind. But I promise you fear, I promise you I will deal with you later. I will address you, I will look at you, I will talk to you, I will deal with you after this thing that I'm about to go and do. And I guarantee maybe it's the same your experience, James, when I leave Ukraine and I then mentally pull the box out and I open it to have this conversation with fear, the box is empty.
- [35:56]
James Hewitt
That's beautifully described, actually. That seems to conjole with what I was saying. And what do you think?
- [36:03]
Hamish De Breton Gordon
Well, just one final thing to wrap this up.
- [36:06]
James Hewitt
You were there as well.
- [36:07]
Hamish De Breton Gordon
I was there, but I. It wasn't my first blue on blue. About a day later, our forward observation gunnery officer emptied 50 rounds of his chain gun into my vehicle and I'd come. We met at a dinner party about 10 years ago, and this chap, I won't name him, he knows who he is, went up to my wife and said, has Hamish ever forgiven me for almost killing him? And she said, I've never heard about this. And he came up to me and said, hamish, have you forgiven me? And I suddenly went, God, I'd forgotten all about it. Yes. You didn't nearly kill me. You. What's it. But it was one of those things just completely disappeared.
- [36:49]
James Hewitt
But.
- [36:49]
Hamish De Breton Gordon
But I suppose the fight. How much of this is going on in Ukraine, I bet.
- [36:53]
James Hewitt
Gosh, yes.
- [36:54]
David Knowles
Now, just before. James, if you tell us about the Make A Difference foundation, just to finish off that. That part. Did the individual who made those really crass comments, if I may. I know it was the heat of battle, but calling someone a coward and threatening to release command is.
- [37:08]
James Hewitt
You say it was a heat of battle, but did he ever apologize? Not for him, no. He might have been getting pressure from higher command to crack on. And I didn't get an apology, no.
- [37:20]
David Knowles
So all that military experience and empathy of men and women in combat, you now bring to the Make A Difference Foundation. What is the Make A Difference Foundation? How do you.
- [37:29]
James Hewitt
I'm hugely proud to be working with Make A Difference foundation, started by John Lawlor I called Chief. He was made a chief when he was working in Africa. And I just thought, although he's a bit younger than me, I wanted to make sure that everyone who worked for us realized that he was in charge. Although I was just a driver and still am, I still drive. But I have been made a trustee of the foundation, and we operate Operation safedrop and support the Ukrainians with humanitarian aid. We had a fleet of vehicles, now down to two, and we would drive forward, having loaded them in Lviv or Kyiv with what was required at the front, and drive forward. Some of the stuff was picked up from United Nations Depot or Red Cross, and we would take it forward because we were able to do that as a volunteer force rather than have to worry about the safety of the employees as a normal institution like the Red Cross United Nations. So we'd go forward and deliver the equipment, the kit, medical aid or whatever that was required, sometimes water, and recover those who needed to be recovered back to safety. We've delivered 2,500 tons of aid. I think that's on fairly conservative estimate. We've evacuated 3240. I think that's the figure that I'm most proud of. Really, we've driven 42,000 miles. I think I've done most of those, actually. And we managed to rehome 620 Ukrainian individuals and families.
- [39:20]
David Knowles
So that's in Ukraine and Poland, I
- [39:22]
James Hewitt
understand, in Europe, and a few in England, too, when we had slightly bigger workforce and sadly, we dwindled down to really just Chief and me and two vehicles. Because although everyone was interested in the beginning and everyone promised all sorts of things, that wears out and it's harder for us to continue. I've spent nearly all my money doing what I set out to do, and so is Chief. So it's terribly embarrassing asking for money, but in fact, is it really? I'm not asking. I'm asking for people to realize the importance of keeping the Ukrainians moral.
- [40:09]
David Knowles
And what are the foundation's plans for the rest of 2026? Where would any funds donated go? This year?
- [40:16]
James Hewitt
We'd like to continue the work of taking equipment out there. It costs about a thousand pounds to get a vehicle out there, to get a driver and a vehicle to pay for the accommodation over two nights and the diesel and the ferry or le. Le tunnel, go on the train. And it all adds up. And to keep that show on the road, we'd like to continue that. And I think it's hugely important that we continue that. And if everything turns out how I'd like it and how Hamish would like it and you'd like it, Dom, and we see a beginning of an end, we'll still be required out there helping to rebuild as well. And it'll be operation rebuild, Operation rebuild a school, Operation rebuild a hospital. So we'd like to help these amazing people who have put their life on the line so that we can continue to live the way that we have since the Second World War. And I will try and keep fighting for that.
- [41:23]
Hamish De Breton Gordon
Well done.
- [41:24]
David Knowles
Thank you, James.
- [41:27]
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- [43:24]
Hamish De Breton Gordon
Foreign
- [43:26]
David Knowles
let's move to final thoughts. Hamish, where would you like to leave our listeners?
- [43:30]
Hamish De Breton Gordon
Yeah, thanks very much for that. It's been a really great chat. Great to see you again, James and and delighted to get your story out and delighted to get the plug in for Tank Command available at all good bookshops on the 4th of June. But to be really serious, my final thought is very much for another charity charity called Pickups for Peace. Who are Mark Laird and Alistair Stewart, avid listeners to Ukraine. The latest they do amazing work. I think they've delivered Almost a thousand 4x4s to Ukraine, over £7 million worth of aid. They took my own son, took a vehicle out there just over a year ago and speaking at a charity event in Edinburgh this weekend with James charity Pickups for Peace, another wonderful charity based in this country, doing amazing work and as James so rightly says, showing to the Ukraine people that we really do care and we realize that they are fighting a battle that is absolutely interrogated in our own bones and they must win. They must get a just peace and people like James and Pickups for Peace are enabling that and we should be mightily thankful. So I suppose my final thought is thank for all those fantastic charities. Those people are spending their own money off their own back going into the danger zone and doing stuff which is amazing. Well done to you.
- [44:57]
James Hewitt
All the work that you do in writing about it and keeping people informed properly. And you Dom, it's excellent program or podcast. It's hugely important to keep people informed about it and we must progress and move wider and get more ears to listen and not normalize this iniquitous ghastliness of Putin and his pathetic cronies.
- [45:26]
David Knowles
We will thank you gentlemen. We will be back same time, same place tomorrow. Do hope you can join us. Thanks.
- [45:37]
Podcast Narrator
Ukraine the latest is an original podcast from the Telegraph created by David Knowles. Every episode featuring us in the studio maps and battlefield footage is now available to watch on our YouTube channel. Subscribe at www.YouTube.com Crainethelatest. There's a link in the description. You can also sign up to the Ukraine the Latest newsletter. Each week we answer your questions, provide recommended reading and give exclusive analysis and behind the scenes insights plus diagrams of the front lines and weaponry to complement our reporting. It's free for everyone including non subscribers. You can find the link to sign up in the episode description. If you appreciate our work, please consider following Ukraine the Latest on your preferred podcast app and leave us a review as it helps others find the show. Please also share it with those who may not be aware we exist. You can also get in touch directly to ask questions or give comments by emailing ukrainepodelegraph.co.uk we continue to read every message. You can also contact us directly on X. You'll find our handles in the description. As ever, we're especially interested to hear where you're listening from around the world. And finally, to support our work and stay on top of all of our Ukraine news, analysis and dispatches from the ground, please subscribe to the Telegraph. You can get one month for free, then two months for just one pound at www.telegraph.co.uk Ukraine the latest my name is David Knowles.
- [47:09]
David Knowles
Thank you all for listening. Goodbye big news.
- [47:15]
James Hewitt
Boost Mobile is now sending experts nationwide to deliver and set up customers new
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Hamish De Breton Gordon
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David Knowles
Wait, we're going on tour?
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James Hewitt
Not a tour, we're delivering and setting
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Hamish De Breton Gordon
up customers phones so it's easier to upgrade.
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David Knowles
Let's get in the tour bus and hit the road. No, not a tour bus, it's a regular car we use to deliver and
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Hamish De Breton Gordon
set up customers phones at home or work.
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Adam Grant
Are you a groupie on this tour?
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David Knowles
We deliver and set up phones.
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Hamish De Breton Gordon
It's not a tour.
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David Knowles
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Adam Grant
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