‘Staggering’ Russian losses as ‘tens of thousands of troops’ stall in Putin’s spring offensive & interviewing Ukrainians who fought for Russia

Summary

Podcast Summary: Ukraine: The Latest

Episode: ‘Staggering’ Russian losses as ‘tens of thousands of troops’ stall in Putin’s spring offensive & interviewing Ukrainians who fought for Russia
Date: March 24, 2026
Host: The Telegraph (Francis Dernley, James Kilner, Adli Pogman-Ponte, Jen Stout)
Guests: Borlaj Hidwegi (Hungary), Jen Stout (Reporter, The Reckoning Project)

---

Episode Overview

In this episode, the hosts delve into the launch of Russia's 2026 spring-summer offensive and the resulting heavy Russian casualties, examine the growing unrest and technological clampdowns in Moscow, cover the latest on Hungary’s controversial relationship with Russia, and present a deep-dive interview with reporter Jen Stout about Ukrainians who ended up fighting for Russia, exploring the complexity of "traitors" in Ukraine.

---

Key Discussion Points

1. Russian Spring Offensive and ‘Staggering’ Casualties

• [03:07-09:42] Francis Dernley: The episode opens with a detailed update on Russia's military campaign:
  • The 2026 spring offensive is officially acknowledged by both Ukraine and the Institute for the Study of War (ISW).
  • Between March 17th and 20th, Russia launched 619 assaults involving tens of thousands of troops; reportedly, 6,090 Russian soldiers were killed or wounded, with 8,710 infantry losses over the past week (03:40).
  • The majority of these attacks are centered in eastern Ukraine—particularly the Pokrovsk sector in Donetsk.
  • Russian command is trying to exploit poor spring weather (fog) to diminish Ukrainian drone and artillery effectiveness—so far, unsuccessfully.
  • Ukrainian authorities report a double-tap terrorist attack in Bucha, orchestrated by a local recruited by Russian intelligence.
  • Russian missile and drone strikes killed five, including a train passenger, and damaged Moldova’s power connections to Europe.
  • International pressure is mounting for tougher sanctions (04:30):

    “Sanctions must bite harder... We must defend international peace and security through strength and decisive action. Russia will not stop on its own.” —Ukraine’s Foreign Minister, Andrii Sibilla [05:45]

  • Oil and sanctions: Continued Russian intelligence support to Iran and Kyiv's concerns over the US possibly engaging with Belarus' Lukashenko.
  • Hungary Controversy: The Hungarian Foreign Minister stands accused of leaking EU meeting details to Moscow (08:30).

2. Hungary’s Response to Diplomatic Allegations

• [09:42-11:29] Borlaj Hidwegi Interview:
  • Hidwegi calls the allegations “utter nonsense,” arguing diplomacy means talking to all partners, even adversaries.
  • Criticizes Brussels for “shallow slogans” and “never-ending financing of Ukraine’s military effort.”

  • “If you are a chief diplomat... you talk to your partners. Hungary would like this war to end... It's absurd that they've come to the point of saying things like that.” —Borlaj Hidwegi [10:15]

  • Accuses EU leaders of lacking real diplomacy and failing to engage with Russia effectively.

3. Moscow Unrest: Internet Outages, Censorship & Civil Disquiet

• [12:26-24:21] James Kilner Analysis:
  • Significant and uneven internet outages across Moscow; likely part of increased Kremlin censorship, especially targeting non-state communication apps like Telegram.
  • Reports of Russians turning to alternative messaging apps (e.g., KakaoTalk) to circumvent government controls.
  • The clampdown has disrupted daily life: GPS failures, collapsed taxi booking systems, even restricting access to public restrooms due to app white-listing (14:47).

  • “Everyday bits of Russian life are being very much impacted... a feeling of deep unease, anxiety, destabilization in Russia... [with] the psychosis and dystopian trajectory of ordinary life.” —James Kilner [15:37]

  • Students are pressured to use state-subsidized messaging app "Max"; refusal risks exclusion from studies and exams.
  • Emergence of internal dissent: Kremlin insider Ilya Rezhlo published a memo calling for Putin’s removal, directly citing war failures, economic damage, and clampdown on media freedoms. He was detained in a psychiatric hospital soon after speaking out.

  • “For him to turn against Putin is remarkable... He has been explicit about this.” —James Kilner [17:53]

  • Noted opposition analyst Abbas Gallyamov suggests this dissent is symptomatic of “cracking” within Russian society and elites.

4. Russian Economic Troubles

• [22:40-24:21]
  • Putin admits GDP dropped 2.1% in the past year—rare candor on economic downturn.
  • Inflation hits consumers hard (vodka prices up 16%).
  • Labor shortages and unpaid workers, especially among imported labor.
  • Poll: 70% of Russian small/medium enterprises say business is bleaker than a year ago—citing war taxes and VAT hikes.
  • Major auto manufacturer transitions to rental model due to the worst sales in 20 years.

---

Special Feature: Interview—Ukrainians Who Fought for Russia

[25:13-46:44] Jen Stout with Adli Pogman-Ponte

Context & Main Questions

• Exploring why and how Ukrainians from occupied Donetsk/Luhansk end up fighting for Russia, often as conscripts, and what happens when they’re captured.
• Focus on the moral, legal, and societal complexity around labeling these men as traitors or collaborators.
• Ties to larger themes of identity, propaganda, and post-war reconciliation.

Highlights & Notable Quotes

The Human Story Behind the “Traitor” Label

• Many conscripts were miners or working-class men with few opportunities, often living under Russian propaganda for years (28:56).

• “None of it’s very straightforward. Any kind of simple judgment is... foolish. The testimonies are a fascinating insight into why these men—if they volunteered—why they did.” —Jen Stout [26:19]

• Extreme examples of being used as expendable “meat” by Russian commanders—even sending men back to the front after suffering strokes (28:44).

• “The interviewer says, ‘What kind of soldier could you be like that?’ And he says, ‘For meat, what else?’” —Jen Stout [28:44]

Motivations, Survival & Local Identity

• Many cite “defending Donbas” without being able to articulate who the attacker was—deeply rooted propaganda and confusion (29:40).
• Those who surrendered or were captured may now face 15 years in Ukrainian prison for treason, regardless of the circumstances.

• “If they didn’t have the opportunity to surrender... are they going to surrender to Ukraine if they know they'll be prosecuted for treason?” —Jen Stout [31:10]

The Agony of Human Rights

• Ukrainian society divided: some want POWs for prisoner swaps, others see all as traitors (32:43).
• Laws rushed through for collaborators; human rights groups worry punishment is often too broad.

• “To uphold the rights of your enemy and uphold international law when your enemy has absolute contempt for international law... is the agony of human rights.” —Jen Stout [34:55]

Interviewers’ Dilemmas

• Interviewing POWs is fraught—strict Geneva Convention rules, emotional empathy collides with knowledge of atrocities (35:34).

• “All I’m going to think is they’re responsible for this... and then you have to look someone in the eyes—and what if they’re kind of pathetic?” —Jen Stout [36:40]

• Many prisoners realize they were cannon fodder, given worse equipment, poor training. Some become deeply cynical about Russia and their past choices (40:14).

Banality of Evil & Propaganda

• Parallels drawn to Arendt’s Banality of Evil—atrocity is the cumulative result of small, sometimes banal decisions (37:25).

• “Good people can very quickly do or at least back very terrible things.” —Jen Stout [38:20]

• Sense of helplessness (“small man syndrome”) is pervasive; many express a purely local—not Russian or Ukrainian—identity (41:10).

• “It’s a completely dystopian hell... a very local identity... and this was a thing for a long time.” —Jen Stout [41:10]

Socioeconomic and Legal Challenges

• Decaying industrial regions like Donbas feel alienated and abandoned (43:30).
• Geneva Convention and Ukrainian law limit and regulate POW interviews—journalists rely on vetted sources and anonymized testimonies (44:38).

On Longform Journalism

• “We need more longform journalism... topics like this, you need 4,000 words, you need the time.” —Jen Stout [45:27]

---

Closing Notes and Additional Updates

• [48:52] Putin signs law allowing private security guards at strategic infrastructure to temporarily carry assault rifles to shoot down drones—highlighting ongoing militarization.

  “Now they’re arming your bog standard security guards with assault rifles to shoot down drones... More weapons, more militarization, and more crazy projects and policies in Russia.” —James Kilner [49:18]

---

Timestamps Index

• Russian Offensive & Casualties: 03:07–09:42
• Hungary—Leaking Allegations & Response: 09:42–11:29
• Moscow Internet Outages & Social Impact: 12:26–16:27
• Civil Dissent & Crackdown: 16:40–21:18
• Russian Economic Woes: 22:40–24:21
• Interview: Ukrainians Fighting for Russia: 25:13–46:44
• Arming Security Guards: 48:52–49:44

---

Memorable Quotes

• “Sanctions must bite harder... Russia will not stop on its own.” —Andrii Sibilla, Ukraine’s Foreign Minister [05:45]
• “If you are a chief diplomat... you talk to your partners... It's absurd that they've come to the point of saying things like that.” —Borlaj Hidwegi, Hungary [10:15]
• “The everyday bits of Russian life are being very much impacted by this blockage... deep unease, anxiety, destabilization in Russia.” —James Kilner [15:37]
• “To uphold the rights of your enemy... is the agony of human rights.” —Jen Stout [34:55]
• “Good people can very quickly do—or at least back—very terrible things.” —Jen Stout [38:20]
• “Now they’re arming your bog standard security guards with assault rifles to shoot down drones... More weapons, more militarization, and more crazy projects.” —James Kilner [49:18]
• “We need more longform journalism... topics like this, you need 4,000 words, you need the time.” —Jen Stout [45:27]

---

Summary Takeaways

• The Russian offensive has reached unsustainable loss levels; Ukraine faces persistent attacks but Kremlin resources and morale are showing clear strain.
• Hungary’s unique diplomatic stance sparks outrage across the EU but reveals sharp fault lines on Russia policy inside Europe.
• Moscow is increasingly dystopian, with censorship and technological interventions undermining both daily life and social stability.
• Economic problems and dissident voices, while not overtly revolutionary, hint at deeper fractures within Russia.
• The experience of Ukrainian fighters captured as enemy combatants—many drafted under duress—raises profound ethical, legal, and societal questions for post-war Ukraine.
• The mechanics of “traitor,” “collaborator,” and “survivor” are often painfully tangled amidst propaganda, class, and local identity.

---

For further reading:

• Jen Stout’s in-depth piece in Prospect Magazine (linked in episode description).
• The new documentary series on Hungary and its relationship with Russia and Ukraine.

Production credits:
Produced by Rachel Porter, executive producers Francis Dernley, Louisa Wells, and David Knowles.

Transcript

[Jen Stout]

The telegraph.

[Jerry Insurance Advertiser]

Tired of your car insurance rate going up? Even with a clean driving record, you're not alone. That's why there's Jerry, your proactive insurance assistant. Jerry compares rates side by side from over 50 top insurers and helps you switch with ease. Jerry even tracks market rates and alerts you when it's best to shop. No spam calls, no hidden fees. Drivers who save with Jerry could save over 1,300 doll a year. Switch with confidence. Download the Jerry app or visit Jerry AI Acast today.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying Big Wireless Way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop with Mint. You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying, no judgments. But that's weird. Okay, one judgment anyway. Give it a try. @mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 for

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

3 month plan equivalent to 15 doll

[Boost Mobile Advertiser]

required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra.

[Jen Stout]

See full [e-mail] hey, this is Adam

[David Knowles]

Grant, host of Ted's podcast Rethinking with Adam Grant. Have you heard of Bill? It's the intelligent finance platform that uses AI to help you avoid costly errors and optimize cash flow. In fact, Bill reports that over 90 of the top 100 US accounting firms trust them to manage, move and maximize money. Proven by over a trillion dollars in secure transactions. Eliminate the friction and start scaling with the proven choice. Visit bill.compenven to talk with an expert about automating your business finances and get a $250 gift card as the thank you. That's bill.com proven terms and conditions apply. See Offer page for details.

[Francis Dernley]

I'm Francis Dernley and this is Ukraine. The latest Today amid confirmation that Putin's spring offensive has begun, we hear more details of the assaults which triggered the huge increase increase in Russian casualties before learning the truth behind the latest rumors of unrest and Internet outages in Moscow. We also speak to a senior figure in the office of Prime Minister Viktor Orban of Hungary about the accusations that Budapest's diplomats have been sharing details of EU meetings with Kremlin officials and later hear about Ukrainians who fought for Russia and are now prisoners of war in Ukraine. What made them betray their country?

[James Kilner]

Bravery takes you through the most unimaginable hardships to finally reward you with victory.

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

The Russians is not one facing essence. If I'm president, I will have that

[David Knowles]

war settled in one day.

[James Kilner]

24 hours.

[Francis Dernley]

We are with you, not just today or tomorrow, but for 100 years.

[Jen Stout]

On Ukraine.

[Borlaj Hidwegi]

Nobody's going to break us. We are strong. We are Ukrainians.

[Francis Dernley]

It's Tuesday the 24th of March, four years and 28 days since the full scale invasion began. And today I'm joined by our Russia analyst James Kilner and later Adlie Pogman. Ponte interviews journalist Jen Stout. But first, the latest military and political updates from me. Russian forces have launched their spring summer 2026 offensive. That's now the assessment of both the Ukrainian military and our friends at the Institute of the Study of War in Washington. It tallies with Dom's assessment in recent days, partly triggered by the reports on the ground, but mainly those extraordinary Russian casualty numbers in recent days. According to Ukraine's Commander in Chief oleksandr Syrsky, between March 17th and 20th Russia carried out 619 assaults involving tens of thousands of soldier, losing 6090 troops killed or wounded and a total of 8710 infantry losses over the past week alone. If true, such a high casualty rate is simply unsustainable long term given Russia's recent recruitment crisis. Most of those attacks took place in eastern Ukraine, particularly in the Pokrovsk sector in Donetsk at the intersection of Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia and Dnipropetrovsk Oblasts. Syrsky also stated that the Russian military command is trying to bring up new forces and is counting on deteriorating spring weather conditions like fog to reduce the effectiveness of Ukrainian drone and artillery strikes for future assaults. Now again, if true, that shift in the weather seems not to have been favourable for Russia after all. And for more on that, I highly recommend you listen to yesterday's episode with Rand's Michael Bohnert. Verifiable footage and testimony is hard to come by from that sector, but clearly there is increasingly intense fighting taking place elsewhere in Ukraine. Two law enforcement officers have been reported injured in what Ukrainian authorities are calling a Russian orchestrated terrorist attack in the streets of Bucha, the next town over from Irpin, where Adli was reporting from a fortnight ago. The Suspect is a 21 year old local resident apparently recruited by Russian intelligence. He was detained within a few hours after remotely detonating two improvised explosive devices. The first at 5:35am local time near a residential building, shattering the windows. The second as police officers, first responders and explosives experts responded to the scene. So that would be another double tap style attack similar to the ones in Lviv and Dnipro back in February. Now in the air war, a Wave of Russian missiles and drones killed five people in Ukraine this morning, including a man on a train. Another passenger train attack. Two died in the Poltava region, with Zaporizhzhia, Hezon and Kharkiv each reporting one death. Sirens wailed overnight in most areas of the country. The International Space Station just released some footage from December showing what such an attack looks like from space, with flashes of light over Kyiv lasting for several hours. Overall, Russia reportedly launched 392 drones and 34 missiles, disconnecting Moldova's key power link with Europe. Moldova's President Maya Sandu, who the Telegraph interviewed a few weeks ago, said that alternative routes are in place, but the situation remains fragile. Russia alone bears responsibility now. Kyiv's Foreign Minister, Andrii Sibilla posted this. Another night of Russian terror. When Russia fails on the battlefield and cannot impose its will at the negotiating table, it resorts to terror against civilians. Pressure on Russia must be intensified. Sanctions must bite harder. The 20th EU package must be adopted. The shadow fleet must be anchored together. We must defend international peace and security through strength and decisive action. Russia will not stop on its own. It must be made to stop. How long have we been saying that now? President Zelenskyy also warned Ukrainians to pay attention to air raid alerts due to information from their intelligence service that the Russians may be preparing a massive strike. Meanwhile, the oil depot in the Russian port of Primorsk in Leningrad Oblast, which Dom discussed yesterday, is reportedly still ablaze with footage circulating on social media of black clouds around the plant and satellite imagery published showing extensive damage. Oil continues to be the issue of the moment globally, with Moscow profiting from the massive boost in revenue brought about by the war in Iran. Kyiv says it has irrefutable evidence that Russia continues to provide intelligence to Tehran, particularly in terms of radio, technical and electronic intelligence. But that clearly makes no difference to persuading Washington to adopting a different approach towards Moscow. As we discussed at length yesterday, Kyiv is also clearly concerned about neighboring Belarus in light of President Trump's rapprochement with the man dubbed Europe's last dictator. There are reports today that the US is considering inviting Alexander Lukashkov to meet with Trump at the White House following the improved relations between the two countries. President Zelensky has just claimed that Moscow plans to open four control stations for long range attack drones in Belarus, saying that there will be consequences of that. So it will be interesting to continue monitoring this situation with regard to Belarus, of course, worth bearing in mind that it was absolutely pivotal as a staging post. For Russia in the first weeks of the full scale invasion in 2022. But the major row in Europe continues to be related to Hungary with outrage over the fact that its foreign minister supposedly briefed his Russian counterpart Sergei Lavrov on discussions during EU meetings. A European Commission spokesperson has just said a relationship of trust between the member states and between them and the institution is fundamental for the work of the eu. We expect the Hungarian government to to provide the clarifications. Don't worry, there's no need. I've done it for you. I just spoke to Borlaj Hidwegi, the parliamentary State Secretary of Prime Minister Viktor Orban's cabinet office. Here's what he said when I asked for his response to the allegations by several European leaders and diplomats.

[Borlaj Hidwegi]

Listen, it's utter nonsense. Basically what they are doing now, if I understand it well, they are criticizing up our Foreign Minister Peter Seattle, for being a diplomat. Right? What is diplomacy? Diplomacy is talking to your partners. You don't have to necessarily like your partner. You don't have to necessarily agree with the position of your partner. You don't have to have the same opinion. But if you are a chief diplomat and if you work in diplomacy, you talk to your partners. Hungary would like this war to end. We think it's essential that we talk to the Russian partners, to the Russian foreign minister, for instance, in an effort to have this war to end again, you don't have to like your partner, but you have to talk to him. That's the work, that's the job of a diplomat. It's absurd. And it shows you, by the way, how far Brussels and these leaders have gone. It's absurd if they criticize a foreign minister for what exactly? For talking to his partners. That's the most normal thing to do. And that's what Brussels should be doing. Instead of the shallow slogans about the war and the never ending financing of Ukraine's military effort. That's just not right. And it's absurd that they've come to the point of saying things like that. It's not by accident, by the way, that Kayak Talas, who is supposed to be the chief diplomat of the eu, she is basically not received by any serious actor in the world because she thinks, she says things like that. You can't have diplomacy with players like that. You need real diplomats, you need talented politicians, you need patriots to reach a deal. That's what we do.

[Francis Dernley]

I know several people who would gladly see Kaia Kallis.

[James Kilner]

Now.

[Francis Dernley]

Many in Europe will flinch at the use of the word partners to describe the Russians, but that's not how Hungary sees it. And I did that interview as part of our documentary series on Hungary, which we had the trailer for in yesterday's episode. The first of that series, dedicated to the country's relationship with Ukraine and Russia, is published on Friday, where we explore this in lots more detail. So do check that out. But let's go now to our Russia analyst, James Kilner, who's been looking at the, well, plethora of stories relating to the situation in Moscow at the moment, some of which we've touched on in the last few days, but also looking at the economy and many other issues besides. James, welcome back. Always a pleasure having you on Ukraine, the latest it's been a little while. I mean, I have to ask you first of all about what exactly is the latest on the situation in Moscow with regards to these Internet outages?

[James Kilner]

Francis, hi. So, as you know, we've been talking about this story for some time, trying to work out what's going on and how serious it is. It does seem patchy when I talk to people in Moscow. It depends where they are. Central Moscow has been more badly hit than suburban Moscow, but there definitely has been some sort of Internet outage, Internet blockage in Moscow. From what I've been reading, the Kremlin has come up with several excuses about why it appears to be blocking the Internet. One is that it wants to undermine effects of Russian drone strikes in Moscow. The other is it's an error. The tech has been overwhelmed. We do know that they've had tech problems since all these sanctions from the West. So that could be a reason, I think more importantly for our listeners here is why the Kremlin's doing it and why it hasn't been able to effectively block all the Internet in central Moscow. So I've been reading that the Kremlin's media monitoring outlet has been overwhelmed by the task. It's been set by the Kremlin to block the mobile Internet in central Moscow. And I've also read that there's been a sort of a tech malfunction. So there's that the reasons why the Kremlin may want to block the mobile Internet in central Moscow is more nuanced. Once again, it could be a defensive measure. But I think really we keep circling back to this increase in censorship that we understand that. Well, we know the Kremlin is forcing on ordinary Russians. We look at telegram and how it's blocked telegram, trying to force Russians onto the Kremlin zone is A messaging app, Max, all this sort of thing, which is having ramifications its own way. I think you'll find that the blockage of mobile Internet in central Moscow is all linked to this. There have been some interesting side stories around this increased censorship. France says, I was reading this morning that a Korean instant messaging app called Kakaotalk is trending on Russian download apps, seen as a way of getting around the Kremlin. Censorship, getting around Macs, downloading this app and talking to friends and family on this instant messaging app, KKOW Talk. It's in Russian, it's free, and it's not being monitored by the Kremlin. This is what Russians are increasingly reversing to.

[Francis Dernley]

Well, thanks very much, James. Before we go on to the next subject, I just wanted to ask, are there any tangible examples of the impact that this is having on everyday life? Terms of when I was reading reports about public loos being affected, taxi bookings, I mean, just be interested to give us a flavor of that.

[James Kilner]

Yeah, exactly. So it seems to me, Francis, that the Kremlin, for whatever reason has gone in for a white listing operation rather than a blacklisting operation. So his white listed various websites that he wants to force Russians onto to read his normal propaganda websites. The max Internet Internet messaging system that we keep talking about, and as you say, this has had ramifications. One of the most obvious is the GPS systems around Moscow have collapsed. The tactic booking system systems have collapsed. This has re restarted something called the gypsy taxis that I remember back in my day when I was in Moscow when people were flagging down cars and negotiating random drivers. Can you take me from here to here for this price? So the barter system has come back in. There has been the story about the public loons were not on the original whitelist. People were complaining they couldn't get access to any of these leads because the apps weren't working. So now it's on the white list. So everyday bits of Russian life are being very much impacted by this blockage. And it does have very serious ramifications, for instance, that our listeners are interested in. It's this feeling of deep unease, anxiety, destabilization in Russia that is continually, you know, bubbling up and bubbling over them. And the Internet blockage and the sort of the psychosis and dystopian trajectory of ordinary life in Russia is, I think, getting to people. I keep coming back to this trip I took when I was in Telegraph on the Russia desk to Kazan in 2024 and I easily bumped into dissatisfied people, dissatisfied with Putin and dissatisfied with the war in Ukraine. They also had to talk to me in very sort of hush way about this. But I think if you went into Russia now, you'd find more and more of this dissatisfaction.

[Francis Dernley]

Well, blockage being the optimum word based on what you've just said, James. But before we go into more signs of civil unrest in, in Russia, if indeed that's the word that we should be using, can you just give us an update on Telegram and the latest on that and Max apps?

[James Kilner]

So the Telegram, you know, it's definitely happened. It's like 50%, 55%, 60% blocked. As I said, people are being forced into the Max. University students are being forced. If they don't go into max, they don't show their university lecturers there on max, they get admonished they might be banned from going into their university exams, that sort of thing. As I said, people are looking for ways around being forced into the Max app. It is generally, it's the equivalent of WhatsApp being turned off in the UK and people are getting very irate about this. This kind of leads onto a story that I think you were discussing the end of last week when I wasn't on, when about a Kremlin official going rogue and posting a five point memorandum of one of another word about why Putin should be kicked out of office. One of those was a block on the media.

[Francis Dernley]

Yeah, that was a really interesting story. And I wonder, James, whether there have been any other instances of this, like is he a rogue operator who's sort of broken rank or are there other signs of discontent? I mean, I was citing on podcast, it was yesterday or the day before, a piece quoted from Steve Rosenberg that he saw in the press that seemed to be a little bit more irate than would be usually expected.

[James Kilner]

Yeah. So the champion question is a guy called Ilya rezlo, he's a 42 year old, very pro Kremlin guy, was very pro Kremlin, was part of an advisory group to the Kremlin, had been a massive Alexei Navalny activist and had actually gone into court and given evidence against Navalny. So for him to turn against Putin is remarkable. He is now actually in a Psychiatric Hospital Number 3 outside St. Petersburg with very, very grim Soviet era record of somewhere where dissidents get sent to to be tortured and to be reprogrammed. Want of a better sort of way of putting it. So for him to go rogue is remarkable. I know you went into some depth last week about why he's gone rogue. The war in Ukraine, enormous damage to the economy, the Internet and media freedom that we've talked about. And he also directly criticized Putin for his leng power and his disrespect for voters. Now, when you talk about dissent in Russia, this is a really important thing. There have been some newspaper articles which have reference negative things or in frame and negative issues and social issues and economic issues going on around the country which have caused some protest and disquiet. But they have always steered clear away from challenging Putin himself and Putin's war in Ukraine. This guy Neslo has gone out of his way to take Putin on directly. Now, again, I mean, he's been completely sidelined in the Russian media, hasn't been talked about, people aren't referencing, particularly on telegram, on social media because it's too dangerous. But he, before he went, he was placed in the psychiatric hospital. He went on radio talk shows to promote his Five Point Memorandum about why Russia should kick out Putin. And he said that it all stemmed from the Prigozhin mutiny. But 2023, when Prigozhin, the Wagner mercenary chief, was charging up the road towards Moscow and then Putin did a deal with Prigozhin. Prigozhin called off his mutiny and was meant to go into sunny exile in Belarus or wherever. Two months later, in August, his plane was blown up with the Kremlin agents to place bombs on his plane. Now, Remesulu was saying he's so disgusted by this underhand treatment of Prigozhin, who he saw as a bit of a hero, that that's when he started thinking about Putin shouldn't be around much longer. So you know that in itself, the Prigozhin issue, the way that Putin handled that, is still playing into the psychosis of people in Russia. So the point is, he has been explicit about this. This wasn't like a shot in the dark. He has been explicit about this. There has been several well founded analysis saying that he is just a Trojan horse for more powerful Russians behind him. That has yet to play out. So we have to wait for that to be seen. But, and this is also where it gets interesting. For instance, Abbas Galliamov, former Kremlin speechwriter, who's now an opposition analyst in exile. I think he's in Israel, I'm not 100% sure, but he's in exile. He has said that this statement by Ramaslo is indicative of a broader trend in Russia. I quote, this is a shift in the direction it's taking place both in the media and in society. As a whole, he says that Russian society, the elite, the middle and the lower, are cracking. They've had enough of Peter. They've got war fatigue, economic problems and a dwindling trust in the direction of travel.

[Francis Dernley]

And are we seeing evidence, James, of their increased aggravation within the Russian press, within social media?

[James Kilner]

Only to the extent that we're seeing the article condemn actions that are going on around Russia. Officials in the clampdown on telegram, the censorship of the Internet blockade that we've been talking about in central Moscow, in Novosibirsk, officials have been rounding up hundreds of cattle and killing them, supposedly because they've got a disease. But the criticism has been that these have been very poorly handled, very poorly explained, and it's been frankly winding people up. Obviously, the economic concerns have also come to the fore. These sort of stories, yes, there has been a few notable stories of this ilk recently, but they have always been around in the Russian media, even during the whole the so called sort of iron grip during this war in Ukraine. It's always been an area where Russian media can let off some steam. So I'm not entirely surprised by these stories. They are worth watching. There's very little room for dissent, actual on the street descent. And I've read stories about how potential dissenters have been shooed away on grounds of COVID Of. Grounds of this isn't in the public interest to have this dissent. And they're definitely worth watching. The actual stories. I know they've been highlighted by other journalists. I. I don't think they're completely out of the ordinary, especially given the economic plight and the problems that are current in Russian society. There has to be a bit of give, basically.

[Francis Dernley]

Well, let's go to that subject next, the economy, something that we always talk about with you. James, what's caught your eye this week?

[James Kilner]

Week? Well, the big story is Vladimir Putin was talking about the Russian economy yesterday in some depth and he admitted that Russian GDP was 2.1% lower at the end of January this year than it was 12 months earlier. That's obviously a very significant drop. It was also very significant that Putin himself was talking about this sort of thing. He rarely admits that there's been a major economic decline in Russia. So this is important. I think it's gone as far as admitting that there's an economic recession or decline in Russia because he knows he's going to be buffeted by the oil price increases that you were talking about earlier in the show. He knows it's going to have a windfall because of the war in Iran, because of oil prices surge. He knows the US have eased sanctions on Russian oil, which is going to make it easier to sell. All these are very good things. So he's able to talk about, oh yeah, it's down, but better times are coming. I think the reality is again clearly of a recession or dark economic times in Russia. Izvestia, one of the very pro Kremlin newspapers have been talking about recession. I read some data now that a bottle of vodka is now 16% higher, more expensive in Russia than a year earlier. Kremlin has been a mass importer of labor from Sri Lanka, but they've been grumbling. They haven't even been paid properly. So, you know, serious problems there. And there was a business poll in Russia of small medium sized enterprises, creation of Forbes. 70% of the respondents said that their businesses were more bleak now than a year earlier. And they link this directly to the increase in VAT and other taxes to pay for the Kremlin's war in Ukraine.

[Francis Dernley]

And I see that one of the car makers has also had its worst sales in 20 years and is now having to develop a car rental model instead to push its new cars. These extraordinary stories and when you take together that patchwork, James, you do begin to see these trends much more clearly. But that's all we've got time for today in terms of the updates before our final thoughts later on. Now let's go to a special interview with Adli and freelance reporter and friend of the podcast, Jen Stout. Jen has been working with the Reckoning Project, speaking to Ukrainians who ended up fighting for Russia and are now prisoners of war in Ukraine. Through those conversations she's been exploring a complicated what turns someone into a traitor? Here's their conversation.

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

Jen, it's a pleasure to have you on the podcast. Welcome back. We're always very happy to talk to you.

[Jen Stout]

Thanks. It's lovely to be back.

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

You are talking to us today about your latest piece in Prospect magazine which is looking at a very underreported issue in the war, which is the mobilization of people in Donetsk and the drafting of people in the Russian army who have now been made prisoners of war in Ukraine. So just to be really clear, these are Ukrainians living under occupation that have joined Russian ranks, either by force, maybe not entirely by force, who have been sent to the front line fighting Ukraine, made prisoners of war currently being held in Ukraine. And you've written a piece looking at the intricacies of what is a traitor, what is collaborating with the enemy and what that means for Ukraine, for these people, for these territories, and also for the journalists who decide to write about them, because that's also quite complicated. We'll get into that in a little bit. So, first off, can you describe how you came to this piece and what you wanted to explore?

[Jen Stout]

So you're right to say that it is a topic that is unpopular, and perhaps that in itself makes me drawn to it. I originally started talking to Peter Pomerantsev and the Reckoning Project, which is a great NGO that I'm sure your listeners are aware of. They work to gather evidence of war crimes and to pursue prosecution, so that all of the work that journalists are doing isn't for nothing. And they do a lot of this work all over Ukraine and internationally as well. And they have been gathering testimonies of Ukrainian prisoners of war being held in Ukraine. And we need to be clear about the definitions here, because we can get our heads wrapped up with these definitions a little bit. So there are prisoners of war camps in Ukraine. They're separate to prisons, as they should be, as international law demands. And some of the men in there, of course, are Russian. Some of them are from occupied areas of Ukraine, such as, as you mentioned, Donetsk region, also the Hansk region, also occupied crime and other occupied parts of southeastern Ukraine. And so part of this story was looking at the very, very, very complicated situations in which these men ended up in the Russian army. None of it's very straightforward, and I think any kind of simple judgment is, as with most situations, foolish. How I proceeded with the Reckoning Project was that I pitched this to Prospect magazine, which I work with quite a lot. I really like them with the idea of doing a long piece that could really get the time and the space to breathe and to dig into all these issues. And that to do that, I would access some of the testimonies that the Reckoning Project and their researchers in Ukraine had gathered. Now, those testimonies are. There are several things. They are evidence of a war crime, often of the forced conscription of Ukrainians in occupied territory. But they're also a really fascinating insight into maybe the reasons why these men, if they volunteered, why they did, into the propaganda that's so rife in occupied territories, and to the kind of lives they had been leading before they ended up in the Russian army, and also how they felt about Russia. Now, some of them are very cynical and had always been cynical about being used as cannon fodder. And it actually starts with the story of a man who had a stroke and he could barely function. And they sent him back to the front, the Russians. And the interviewer says, what kind of soldier could you be like that? And he says, for meat, what else?

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

That's a very striking moment in your piece. How did these men get drafted? How did that happen? How did they end up in, in Ukrainian prisoner of war camps? What are their stories and all of their complexity?

[Jen Stout]

Well, I mean, a lot of the men had been miners and that's a very, very hard job. But particularly in eastern Ukraine and during the 90s, a lot of them had ended up in Kopankas, which are unofficial, incredibly dangerous, very difficult, very low paid work. And these are working class people who've had not a lot of opportunities in life, I think it's fair to say. And then they've gone through sort of 2014, the first Russian invasion then, of course, and as I said, the sheer quantity of Russian propaganda aimed at these people for a very long time now. Some of it reminded me of the, I don't know if you remember the book by Sean Walker, the Long Hangover, the part in that where this has stuck with me ever since I read it, where an old man, he joins up the Russian military and he's killed very quickly and he does it because he saw some propaganda on tv and that one single story persuaded and ended his life and ruined his wife's life. And that's, you know, this is powerful stuff, but often quite incoherent. I should just explain as well. The testimonies are gathered by Ukrainian researchers and I interviewed two of them for this piece as well, because I didn't want to just read the stuff they had gathered. I wanted to question them about how they feel about it as well, which for me was a really interesting aspect of this. One of these researchers had asked this man, he'd been forcibly conscripted in 22, but prior to that, in 2014, he had joined the, what was called then the DPR militia, the Diniak's People's Republic Militia. And she asked him why? And he said, to defend Donbass. She said, from whom? From those who attacked. And she asked, who was it that attacked? And the man said, honestly, I didn't see. And you think, oh my God, you know, it's very easy to judge these people. And of course for Ukrainians, these people are the enemy to an extent. They have been fighting in the Russian army, which commits atrocities. I've heard this many times when I've been interviewing people around deoccupied areas in the northeast of Ukraine. The lnr. DNR guys were the worst. They were the most brutal and committed the most atrocities. That's impossible to obviously quantify right now, but I have heard it an awful lot and there could be various reasons for that. But these men are hated and neither in POW camps and they're being treated as traitors, understandably, legally, it's very complicated. And if they were conscripted in those cases, it's even more complicated because if someone wasn't responsible for that decision and was forced into it, then people argue, well, they should have surrendered. But if they didn't have the opportunity to surrender, possibly also, are they going to surrender to the Ukrainian side if they know that they're going to be prosecuted for treason, which is almost invariably a sentence of 15 years?

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

Yes. It's an impossible situation to be in. And you've mentioned being considered a traitor, you've mentioned the 15 year prison sentence. Reporting on this piece, it's a really grave accusation. And it's going to be one of the major issues if and when there is the occupation at one point, or it may be a ceasefire, like how is the rest of Ukrainian society, both in Ukraine as well as in the occupied territories, are going to deal with the case of traitors. And being French myself, learning history of my own country, it's very prominent in the French psyche, the idea of being a collaborator to the Nazi regime. And that is something I've really been curious about in the context of Ukraine that they will have to deal with massively in the years to come. What did you see in relation to Ukrainians reactions to these people, whether they did consider them traitors, whether they had able to take in some of the nuance of their paths. What is your assessment of what you saw?

[Jen Stout]

So really it was just the two interviewers that I researched for this piece, I wasn't canvassing opinion. I was writing it while I was in the uk. I mean, a lot of Ukrainians I know are. If they're going to be pragmatic about it, at least it's good that they have these POWs because they can swap them for Ukrainians held in Russian prisons. Right. And a lot of these guys that we're referring to, one of them said he wants to be swapped back to Russia so that he can then enter occupied Donbass and go back there where he intended to drink himself to death. You know, it wasn't an optimistic and happy story. It was a really grim read because this guy, he's lost his son. His son survived, I think, barely weeks in The Russian army before he was killed. This guy had had several strokes while in the army, you know, and he was in pieces. And the researcher, she's a really interest woman and clearly very empathetic. And she said to me, usually in that situation, I would touch someone's arm. I mean, the man's weeping, he's broken, physically and mentally. But she's thinking, is he my. My enemy, my compatriot? Who is this man to me? And as you say, that's a huge question. Post war, certainly people don't want to talk about it right now, and I understand that. But there has been an ongoing issue, certainly linked to this, about the collaboration law law, which a lot of human rights groups and NGOs in Ukraine have been criticizing, challenging. It was brought in in a rush and it is not very good legislation. And it has been used in ways that worry human rights groups to prosecute people who lived under occupation, some of whom, of course, did collaborate. There are also other people who are being hounded and sentenced for quite minor things, and is certainly linked to this case about who was a collaborator, who was a traitor, and how shall we deal with them. And actually, a bigger part of this piece is what Peter Pomerantsev, who's the co founder of the Reckoning Project, referred to, I thought was a great way to put it, is the agony of human rights. Because to uphold the rights of your enemy and uphold international law when your enemy has absolute contempt for international law, is clear about that. Tortures and executes and well, we know what they do. We've been reporting it for all these years. How do you then uphold their rights and the rights of these prisoners? It's very, I think, very morally difficult. But you have to, because partly. What kind of country do you want to be after the victory, if you stoop to their level? But it is also very easy for me to sit in my peace and comfort here and say, oh, you should be doing this and you should be doing that.

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

This phrase, the agony of human rights is incredibly powerful. It encapsulates so much. And you've touched upon these researchers who've done the interviews with the POWs. And tell me more about. About what it was like for them to talk to people who may have been involved in the war crimes they were documenting two or three years ago.

[Jen Stout]

Can you imagine how hard that would be and how conflicted you would feel? I mean, these are very, very, very diligent professionals, I should say. I talked to two women, Ina and Natalia, and they're there to Do a job, they go to the camp to interview these guys. They do them in very prescribed circumstances. There can't be any duress. But yeah, one of them said that on the way to the camp, she looked out the window and there was one of those cemeteries that's just growing and growing and growing because of all the war dead. And it's a horrible sight. And she said to the person with her, a colleague, when I talk to these men, all I'm going to think is they're responsible for this because these men have been part of the army that has rampaged across Ukraine, committing atrocities, and then you build up the enemy in your head. Or evil, I suppose. You know, people think of evil as an abstract, and then you have to look someone in the eyes and what if they're kind of pathetic? Psychologically? It's really, really difficult morally, in every way, I think. But, you know, reading through the transcripts, it's obvious they were very diligent, they did a very good job. Perhaps Ina was really grappling with having empathy for these guys at one point, and they were talking about mining, apparently, with this sort of. Of love and zeal. And she was thinking, gosh, yeah, this is a thing I don't know that much about. And how interesting. But often this would happen in the interviews. The men would start saying, just coming out with like the usual Russian propaganda lines like, oh, Ukraine is to blame. And Ukraine started this. It's because of my Dan, we're liberating you and all this crap. And, yeah, can you imagine then how hard that is, that the very lines that are used to justify the invasion and some would argue genocide of your own country. One of your countrymen, depending on how you see him, is sitting in front of you parroting these same lines. You know, must be so difficult to

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

find it within yourself to maybe have empathy for these men who are breaking down in front of you and have gone through horrible times and horrible lives and have not necessarily chosen or not very consciously that path. It's interesting what you said about these soldiers or these evil, which is a very vague construction in anyone's mind, come to reality through one life, one story, one experience, and as you describe them, being potentially quite pathetic. And it really echoes, you know, after World War II, like Hannah Arendt's Banality of Evil. It's not a massive big monster, a faceless thing, or like one massive act of atrocity. It is a succession of tiny decisions, some of which can be very banal, some of which can be very mundane. It's the guy who drove the train to Auschwitz or opened the doors to the carriages. And it seems like that's what's coming through in these testimonies as well. Would you agree?

[Jen Stout]

Yeah, absolutely. And that shows, again, the power of propaganda and why we need to fight against it so much. Because, you know, men who seem very nice, men who are nice to their children can do terrible things. And it starts with believing in lies and believing that you're under attack, believing that Natal's trying to destroy you in your way of life, believing that a child was crucified. Suddenly you become capable of terrible things. I would actually unquote Peter again, because he had a book called Nothing Is True and Everything Is Possible. And I, having spent time in Russia as well, I would slightly tweak it and say if nothing is true, then everything, anything is possible. And good people can very quickly do or at least back, very terrible things like trying to wipe out your neighbour. And that becomes possible when you disrupt the entire idea of truth and people become very cynical. So a thing that came up a lot in these testimonies was that people had a kind of small man syndrome, this psychology of, well, I can't affect anything. The elites are fighting between themselves, whether it's in Russia or in Europe or whatever. And this was all written and I can't do anything thing that comes up an awful lot. It's quite a striking trope, I would say.

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

Yeah, and that's something that is so easy to believe for anyone faced with these massive political upheavals. And speaking of propaganda, now, these men have been prisoners of war in Ukraine for months or maybe years. You've mentioned the case of this one man wanting to go back to Russia and Chudonetsk and drink himself to death. Have you read any testimonies of men who'd maybe started changing sides, who wanted to remain in Ukraine? I mean, obviously they would have to remain in prison, so that's very difficult. But did you see any breaking down of the propaganda they've been subjected to?

[Jen Stout]

I haven't been in these camps myself. They have been opened up to foreign journalists at various points and there's some interesting reporting from the. You know, they go in for a day, but they watch Ukrainian tv. Maybe they're subjected to propaganda, you could say, about Ukraine. But yeah, I think there was definitely mentions. When I talked to the two women, they talked about some of the men they interviewed becoming far more cynical or angry about how they've been treated by the Russians and more cynical about the reasons why they'd been mobilized, if we want to use that rather vague words, or why they had chosen, for instance, to join the army or what they'd been conscripted for. And the idea that they were cannon fodder came across very clearly, and particularly because they would often talk about the fact that DNR and LNR guys would have much poorer kits and equipment, hardly any training. I mean, they were, you know, by all accounts, cannon fodder. Absolutely.

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

I mean, that's what we report constantly about Russia. But they themselves are completely aware of it from what you say.

[Jen Stout]

Yeah. And in terms of where they want to go, you're right. I mean, if they're serving a long prison sentence, 15 years is a long part of your life. And if it's possible that you'll be swapped to Russia and from there maybe get back to the occupied territories, perhaps you would do that, depending on what's waiting for you there. It's really important to understand what Russia has created in the occupied territories. In particular, we're talking about Donbass, and the other places are no better, but slightly different. It's a completely dystopian hell, just to be clear what life is like there. It's utterly totalitarian and dystopian and huge amounts of criminality and just Russian naked power. But another trope that comes up a lot in the interviews is a sense of identity that people have that is neither Russian nor Ukrainian, but is local. And that's been a thing for a long time in that part of Ukraine. And, like, you know, I'm not judging that, understandably, like, everyone has, like, layers of identity before the sort of state that they claim or that claims them. But, yeah, it's a very local identity, often tied in with that kind of cynicism about countries and the reasons why these countries are. Are at war and their role in it.

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

And I think that must be especially valid for places like these that have been contested for a long time and where also have gone through such massive changes where once Soviet, that identity collapsed 30 years ago, now they're part of something else. I think they're so aware of the artificiality of countries, of borders, of nationhood, and the identity that is tighter isn't tied to that, because ultimately, when you've been through that over your lifetime and you've seen those shifts and you've lived through them, you must have a very different relationship to it.

[Jen Stout]

No, these things are complicated, and being simplistic and judgmental about them is never that useful. This is something that Jade McGlynn said, actually, the academic, when I was interviewing her about this, she said that she gets frustrated with the discourse about people from the east of Ukraine. She said either that they're all pro Russian, which is not true, of course, or that I think she said, if you cut them, they'll bleed blue and yellow. This kind of very romanticized idea of just how super Ukrainian they are, and both of those are nonsense.

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

And what you do to survive and for your family to survive in a system that is, as you said, completely dystopian and devilish.

[Jen Stout]

Yeah, look, I think there's also a class aspect as well. And that's why I think the east of Ukraine is really, really important to understand, for more people to understand, because like many of the decaying industrial regions of Ukraine, Europe, they've not had a great time. And people can feel, in lots of different countries, including this one and including France, very screwed over by the metropolis because their main industrial occupations have been allowed to fall apart and nothing's really replaced them. And that's a common feeling in many, many places. And how you treat those people, how you talk about them, and whether they get to be integrated into the project of the nation and that society is really crucial.

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

Yeah, I think that's a really important point to make. And for us covering this conflict and being interested in this conflict, Something to keep in mind, I wanted to ask you your experience about. Because talking to prisoners of war as a journalist is a very complex thing. It's regulated by the Geneva Convention. There are lots of rules around it. Can you talk us through a little bit? What are some of these rules and the legalities around interviewing prisoners, prisoners of war?

[Jen Stout]

So I. I had access to testimonies. Obviously, none of them. I mean, prisoners of war cannot be compelled. They cannot give interviews under duress. We have seen that happening a lot in this war, and that's been done to both Ukrainian and to Russian prisoners. And they have to be treated humanely. Though I hate that word when it's used about humans.

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

Yes.

[Jen Stout]

So it's. It's very difficult for journalists to go in. You can't just sort of swan in and go and chat to these guys. And so it's incredibly valuable for journalists like me to be able to talk to the Reckoning Project researchers and to look through some of their testimonies. But as I say, all the names and personal details are taken out.

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

Jen, thank you so much. Is there anything else we haven't talked about? Any final thoughts? Anything that we should mention about this piece or something?

[Boost Mobile Advertiser]

Else.

[Jen Stout]

Well, I would as ever, I'm always arguing this that we need more long form journalism. This is not a story that I could have told in 800 words and it's also not a story with a particular top line, as we like to say. And this is why we don't have much long form journalism left in the uk and I think we really need it. For topics like this, you need 4,000 words, you need the time. I mean, I read a huge amount just on the background for this before I even started reading and cataloging the testimonies that I got. And this stuff takes a lot of time and I think sometimes we forget that. So I'm grateful for the opportunity to talk about this and to have this piece in Prospect because thank goodness there are still pieces this long. Though I really do think there should be more.

[Francis Dernley]

Thanks very much Adelaide and Jen the researchers who conducted those interviews were Natalia Silabab and Ina Kabay, who work for the Reckoning Project. Jen's article is in the current print edition of Prospect Magazine and as well as online. We'll link to it in the episode Description.

[Boost Mobile Advertiser]

Hey, this is Paige desorbo from Giggly Squad and today I want to talk to you about Boost Mobile. Quick question. Why are we letting our phone bills bully? Here's a money tip. Stop paying a carrier tax when you bring your own phone and switch to boost mobile's 25 Unlimited Forever plan, you can unlock up to $600 in savings. That's real life money, not money trapped in a pricey phone bill. $600 is a trip, a shopping spree, or paying something off. Your money belongs in your life. You get unlimited data, talk and text for 25amonth with no contracts and no minimum line requirements. Your phone, your rules. Head to boostmobile.com to switch today and unlock the savings you actually deserve. After 30 gigabytes, customers may experience lower saving. Customers pay $25 per month while active on Boost Mobile Unlimited Plan savings claim, based on a January 2026 Boost Mobile survey comparing average annual payments of major carrier customers to 12 months on the Boost Mobile Unlimited plan. Visit boostmobile.com for details.

[Jerry Insurance Advertiser]

You know what's wild? Most people are still overpaying for car insurance just because it's a pain to switch. That's why there's Jerry. Jerry's the only app that compares rates from over 50 insurers in Mint minutes and helps you switch fast with no spam calls or hidden fees. Drivers who save with Jerry could save over $1300 a year before you renew your car insurance policy. Do yourself a favor, download the Jerry app or head to Jerry AI Acast.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying Big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop with Mint. You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying. No judgments. But that's weird. Okay, one judgment anyway. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment

[Jen Stout]

of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate

[Boost Mobile Advertiser]

first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra.

[Jen Stout]

See full [e-mail].

[Francis Dernley]

Well thank you very much James for your time today. Where would you like to leave listeners? Perhaps with an update on cucumber prices or something else caught your eye?

[James Kilner]

No, no cucumber prices today. Francis A small story that Vladimir Putin signed off on a law to allow private security guards working with state enterprises guarding fuel, infrastructure and other kits, factories, railway installations. So they're allowed to borrow, literally borrow assault rifles of Roskobadia, that's the Russian National Guard and had to borrow them for the amount of time they're there. And this is specifically to shoot down drones. If you remember there was a push last year for Russia to recruit special anti drone units from reservists, from volunteers and clearly that that wasn't effective enough and now they're arming your bog standard security guards with assault rifles are shoot down drones. They have to give these rifles back within two weeks of the project for extra an finishing. That's the only caveat. So this is more weapons, more militarization and more crazy projects and policies in Russia.

[Francis Dernley]

I wonder how many of those assault rifles are going to go missing. That's all I begs the question, doesn't it James? Thank you as ever and thank you all very much for listening wherever you are around the world.

[James Kilner]

Thank you very much.

[Francis Dernley]

Ukraine the latest is an original podcast from the Telegram Telegraph created by David Knowles. Every episode featuring us in the studio maps and battlefield footage is now available to watch on our YouTube channel. [e-mail] crane the latest there's a link in the description. If you appreciate our work, please consider following Ukraine the latest on your preferred podcast app and leave us a review as it helps others find the ship show. Please also share it with those who may not be aware we exist. You can also get in touch directly to ask questions or give comments by emailing ukrainepodelegraph.co.uk we continue to read every message. You can also contact us directly on X. You'll find our handles in the description. As ever, we're especially interested to hear where you're listening from around the world. And finally, finally to support our work and stay on top of all of our Ukraine news, analysis and dispatches from the ground, please subscribe to the Telegraph. You can get one month for free, then two months for just one pound at www.telegraph.co.uk Ukraine the latest Ukraine the Latest was Today produced by Rachel Porter. Executive producers are Francis Dernley, Louisa Wells and David Knowles.

[David Knowles]

My name is David Knowles. Thank you all for listening.

[James Kilner]

Goodbye.

[David Knowles]

Hey, this is Adam Grant, host of ted's podcast Rethinking with Adam Grant. Let me share with you why smart finance leaders turn to Bill. They know that clarity isn't just helpful, it's strategic. As the intelligent finance platform, Bill uses AI to automate the busy work for nearly half a million business businesses so they can focus on intentional growth, eliminate the friction and start scaling with the proven choice. Visit bill.compenven to talk with an expert about automating your business finances and get a $250 gift card as a thank you. That's bill.com proven terms and conditions apply. See Offer page for details.

[Jerry Insurance Advertiser]

This episode is brought to you by Nordstrom. Spring calls for wardrobe refresh and Nordstrom has the best styles of the season. From dresses and denim to standout tops and accessories, find the trends and essentials that feel right for you. Discover new arrivals from the brands you love like Waif, Princess, Polly, Mango, Adidas and free people. Plus free shipping and returns and free styling appointments. Make everything so easy. Shop in [e-mail] or download the Nordstrom App Store.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Your new home is now ready. Dr. Horton, America's Builder has new homes that are ready today.

[Jen Stout]

With new construction communities throughout the Puget

[Ryan Reynolds]

Sound and Central Washington area And more coming, Dr. Horton has the right home

[Jen Stout]

for you at Dr. Horton. We're still building, with more construction, more

[Ryan Reynolds]

communities and more homes available every day. Tap your screen now or visit drhorton.com to find your new home. Now ready. Dr. Horton, America's builder and equal Housing Opportunity Builder.