← Ukraine: The Latest
Ukraine: The Latest
Trump lifts sanctions on Russian oil as energy prices surge & the ‘leaner, more professional’ partisans in the occupied territories
00:50:29
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- [00:04]
Francis Durnley
The telegraph.
- [00:56]
David Knowles
Inflammatory intestinal isierto syndrome es hereditarius o un historial Persona familiar de cancer de colon en espanol. Visit a cologuard pun.com diagonal
- [01:11]
Dr. Jade McGlynn
okay, I have to tell you, I was just looking on ebay where I go for all kinds of things I love. And there it was.
- [01:16]
David Knowles
That hologram trading card. One of the rarest. The last one I needed for my set.
- [01:21]
Dr. Jade McGlynn
Shiny like the designer handbag of my dreams. One of a kind. Ebay had it and now everyone's asking,
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Francis Durnley
ooh, where'd you get your windshield wipers? Ebay has all the parts that fit my car. No more annoying, just beautiful.
- [01:36]
Dr. Jade McGlynn
Millions of finds, each with a story. EBay Things people love
- [01:43]
David Knowles
ACAST Powers the World's Best Podcasts Here's a show that we recommend. Do you like being educated on things that entertain but don't matter? Well then you need to be listening to the Podcast with Knox and Jamie. Every Wednesday we put together an episode dedicated to delightful idiocy to give your brain a break from all the serious and important stuff.
- [02:03]
Dr. Jade McGlynn
Whether we're deep diving a classic movie, dissecting the true meanings behind the newest slang, or dunking on our own listeners for their bad takes or cringy stories, we always approach our topics with humor and just a little bit of side eye. And we end every episode with recommendations on all the best new movies, books, TV shows or music.
- [02:19]
David Knowles
To find out more, just search up the podcast with Knox and Jamie. Wherever you listen to podcasts and prepare to make Wednesday your new favorite day of the week. ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com Foreign. I'm Don Nichols and this is Ukraine. The latest Today as President Zelensky arrives in France for talks with Emmanuel Macron, Britain's Defense secretary says the hidden hand of Vladimir Putin is behind Iranian drone strikes on British troops and allies in the Middle East. We report on the US Move to further ease sanctions on Russia to allow all countries to not just India, to buy Russian oil, a decision Britain's energy minister says will allow the Kremlin to fix some of their ailing economy. And we hear how a Moscow man's love of Domino's Pizza ended in a three year court battle. We also have our regular update on resistance activity in the occupied areas of Ukraine from Dr. Jade McGlynn of King's College, London. Bravery takes you through the most unimaginable hardships to finally reward you with victory.
- [03:35]
Dr. Jade McGlynn
The Russia does not want this. If I'm President I will have that
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Francis Durnley
war settled in one day.
- [03:48]
David Knowles
24 hours. We are with you. Not just today or tomorrow, but for a hundred years.
- [03:59]
Francis Durnley
Nobody's going to break us.
- [04:01]
David Knowles
We are strong. We are Ukrainians. It's Friday the 13th of March, four years and 17 days since the full scale invasion began. And today I'm joined by the Telegraph's executive editor for audio, Francis Durnley. I started with the latest from the battlefield. Now. Russia's Krasnodar Krai region continues to be hit. It's been whacked for several days now, although mostly in the last few days they've been been strikes on energy facilities. Now it's military sites that seem to be getting attention. There are lots of reports of explosions at the Kanskaya military airfield near the southern Russian city of maikop. That's about 150ks east of the Kirch Bridge. Then a little later last night, or around 5am this morning, the Crimean Wind Telegram channel said a number of blasts occurred at Russia's Belbek military airfield and separately at the nearby Katya air base in occupied Crimea. No message, no reports or confirmation at all from Ukraine as to what may or may not have happened there. On the ground in Ukraine, no significant move. As I've been saying for quite a while now, Russian forces seem to have culminated in the vicinity of Pokrovsk. So culminated means they're not going backwards, but they've just run out of steam to go forwards. They are north of the city, as we have reported, but there's not been a lot of move at all around Pokrov for a number of days now. Elsewhere in the Donbas, there's a lot of friction, movements in the line in both directions. 860 Russian casualties yesterday reported by Ukraine's General Staff. Casualties obviously being killed, wounded, missing or taken prisoner. Now at the foot of the fortress belt, so the southern end of the fortress belt. The Institute for the Study of War says geolocated footage published earlier this week, I think it was actually Wednesday, maybe Tuesday, shows very small Ukrainian advances on the southern outskirts of Konstantinivka. However, they also report Russian infiltration operations in the same area. Infiltration operations being a few lucky volunteers running forward with a flag, planting them, having a photo and then being whacked by drains very soon after that. So anyway, the point I'm making is that there's a lot of movement in the line. It's virtually impossible to say one side's advancing, the other's not. There are movements in the line, hence the high number of casualties. Although the actual overall ownership of territory is not changing an awful lot. Now Ukraine's 11th Army Corps spokesperson, Lt. Col. Djumyo Zaporich said yesterday that Russian forces are accumulating infantry, drone operators and armored vehicles, including tanks. And as part of the so called anticipated Russian spring offensive, they're supposed to be grouping around Chasiv Yar, that's just to the northeast of Konstantinivka. We've heard quite a lot about this much vaunted Russian spring offensive. I'm a little bit skeptical. I don't think they've got the combat power to do anything more than we are seeing at the moment these infiltration operations which are very difficult to say that the line is moving to any great degree anyway. Colonel Zhapetz said there'd been a slight uptick in Russian airstrikes in the core area, his corps area, to around five glide bomb attacks a day, which he ascribes mainly due to better weather. So it's very difficult to say if this thing is starting this spring offensive or if this is some shaping operation for that, or if it's just better weather and the aircraft can fly and lob the glide bombs in. He also says that on a typical day Ukrainian forces are having to bring down or are bringing down up to 150 Russian drones just in his cause area. Okay, now Ukraine. Yesterday the last 24 hours, 126 drones and an Iskander M ballistic missile were fired at the country. 117 brought down mainly by fire or by electronic warfare. 4 people killed, nearly 30 injured. Russia targeted a civilian bus in Kharkiv oblast, killing the 53 year old driver, injuring four of the passengers on board. You'll find images of this online. It is a very obviously bright red civilian bus. Absolutely no way you could confuse that for a military vehicle. You'll see shattered windows, shrapnel damage. Ukrainian authorities say it was hit with a Lancet drone at about 9:15am local time this morning and that follows Wednesday's attack. You'll remember that we reported on a civilian bus in Kherson oblast that injured 11 people there.
- [08:13]
Francis Durnley
And also worth mentioning is the context of the attacks on those passenger trains as well recently. Something's changed, hasn't it?
- [08:19]
David Knowles
Yeah, well I mean something has changed because there's been more attacks on civilian transportation infrastructure, rail and road. We've seen from the drone safari down has on that. There's nothing changed in the, the moral decision making and targeting of civilians. Russia does seem to be trying to target logistical nodes or maybe they're just trying to terrorize the population, which we know they are doing. Now, an odd story here. The story from Ukraine's online media outlet for a Madska saying that the Security Service of Ukraine, the SBU, has thwarted a Russian plot to assassinate the 3rd Army Corps commander, Andrei Beletsky. The SBU has detained a drone operator who had been planning a missile or bomb strike during a frontline visit that Mr. Belitsky was going to make. Now, let's just pause there for a moment. The suspect, this is a Ukrainian drone operator from a separate brigade operating in Kharkiv area. Third Corps basically is from Kharkiv down to the northern Donbass area. So a separate brigade in Kharkiv area. This individual was said to have been recruited by Russian Special Services through his ex wife, we are told, who lives in temporarily occupied Zaporizhzhia Oblast and is said to work for Russia. The sbu, along with some other Ukrainian authorities said to have tracked and detained the individual, tracked him over a number of months, his communications and what have you. Detained the individual who now faces life in prison. We'll put a link in the episode Notes to this story. Mr. Beletsky is an interesting character. He is a former politician, not beyond controversy. Some links to some far right figures earlier in his career. In 2014, when Russian, you know, little green men appeared in the Donbass, Beletsky started fighting back. He raised his own force, which was a. Originally a brigade, Third Assault Brigade, that's expanded. They were very successful. They were good at their job. It's now A Corps. Third, it was 3rd Assault Corps, it's now called 3rd Army Corps. They're very well funded, very slick marketing, campaign, branding, recruitment, all that kind of stuff. Third Corps, along with Azov, that we speak about a lot and the Hatier Brigade or Hatier Corps, they are very successful. There are about 120 brigades broken down into 16 corps in the Ukrainian Armed Forces with 3rd Army Corps, Hatiya and Azov being the sort of premier league, if you like. As I've said, very slick marketing, very good branding. They've got. They run their own recruitment initiatives, they fund a lot of their own equipment, et cetera, et cetera. We've made this point before. I think it is not unreasonable to say that these things are being perhaps styled for future political platform. I don't think Mr. Beletsky is beyond political ambition, put it that way. I'm not saying that's a, that's a good or a bad thing. I Just think it's interesting to note given what we know about Ukrainian politics that's much more based around personalities than parties that we might recognize here in the UK that seems to be what, what a lot of people are doing here. Anyway, we were trying to meet when we last went out to Ukraine a couple of weeks ago. We'd set up interviews with Mr. Bilecki. It all fell out of bed at the last minute. But we are hoping to meet him in the future. An interesting character who seems to have just avoided an assassination plot, according to the sbu. Anyway, that's the the military updates. Francis, what have you got on the diplomatic front?
- [11:26]
Francis Durnley
Well, thanks, Dom. The big news, as you mentioned, is that the U S. Treasury Department has issued a temporary license to allow countries to purchase Russian oil currently stranded at sea. Their words, in an effort to stabilize the global energy prices as the war with Iran continues.
- [11:43]
David Knowles
Stranded, they said stranded at sea.
- [11:45]
Francis Durnley
Well, hold that thought. So it's effective immediately? Well, I'm coming to it until April 11th. So this is meant to temporary measure. In a statement, US Treasury Secretary Scott Besant called the temporary authorization a narrowly tailored short term measure which only applied to oil in transit. Hence why this term stranded at sea is applicable, adding it will not provide significant financial benefit to the Russian government which derives the majority of its energy revenue from taxes amassed at the point of extraction. Now nonetheless, many are seeing this as a symbolic shift, including German Chancellor Friedrich Merz. He had this to I want to make this very clear. We believe that easing sanctions now, for whatever reason, would be wrong. We will not allow our Ukraine support to be distracted or dissuaded by the war in Iran. Now, contrasting responses within EU institutions speak to the different approaches taken on these issues by different individuals within them. Antonio Costa, President of the European Council, gave a crushing denouncement. He called the decision by the US to lift sanctions very concerning. But in these situations, there's always one heroine we can count on to say it as it is. Brussels foreign policy chief Kaia Kallis. She never lets us down, she said. The administration wants to divide Europe. In Washington, she said, adding, if you read the national security strategy of the U.S. and the national defense strategy, there shouldn't be any illusions. Now, in a sign of just how much she grates Moscow, it's not former President Medvedev this time who's commented, but man of the moment Kirill Dmitriev, Putin's economic adviser. He said Kaya is still trying to learn how to be smart, calling her the disappointed vassal. It's just ungentlemanly if nothing else. Now, meanwhile, Steve Rosenberg of the BBC reports more on the consequences of Moscow's week long mobile Internet outage that we spoke about at length yesterday. The press is reporting there that the sales of walkie talkies are now up 27% as a consequence of this. Sales of pagers up 73%. I don't even know. You can still buy pages.
- [14:11]
David Knowles
I think Hezbollah got a few that.
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Francis Durnley
Sales of.
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David Knowles
I want to get rid of them.
- [14:16]
Francis Durnley
I love this one. Sales of road atlases up 170%.
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David Knowles
Like a nice road atlas.
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Francis Durnley
So do I, actually. They are great things to have, but bunged in the back of the car.
- [14:25]
David Knowles
You don't drive.
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Francis Durnley
No, I know, but you know, they're fun to just peruse. I love for you to tell your
- [14:30]
David Knowles
driver where to go.
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Francis Durnley
Exactly.
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David Knowles
Right.
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Francis Durnley
Anyway.
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David Knowles
Okay.
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Francis Durnley
Yeah, no, it's weak. As I say, you're reading it at the back while someone's driving you.
- [14:36]
David Knowles
Yeah, it's normally me.
- [14:37]
Francis Durnley
Anyway, story for another time. Right. Rumors are still swirling as we spoke about yesterday, about what all this means. There's little evidence that anything as serious as a coup against the regime is actually taking place. But that is the speculation. It's rife everywhere you look. This seems to be being the subject of the moment. But if you want more on that, as I say, check out yesterday's episode.
- [14:57]
David Knowles
Can I just ask.
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Francis Durnley
Yeah.
- [14:58]
David Knowles
Did Treasury Secretary Scott Besson, did he say most taxes. The Russian state gets most money from the taxes at the point of extraction.
- [15:06]
Francis Durnley
Drives the majority of his energy revenue from taxes assessed at the point of extraction.
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David Knowles
Assessed, yeah. So they still got to sell it.
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Francis Durnley
Yeah.
- [15:13]
David Knowles
Right. So the whole. The whole. Right, okay. Yeah, so they do.
- [15:16]
Francis Durnley
I think it's a bit of word. Word salad. Some. Some political fudgery. Who would have thought it? I think going on there. Fudge and salad, indeed. Not a great combination. Anyway, there's actually not that much evidence that the attempt to temper the oil prices by lifting Russian sanctions is actually having any effect. By the way, I mean, there's obviously. This has been going on now for at least 48 hours. It's been speculated you might expect to see some impact on the markets as a consequence. But because of the continued strikes on Iran, which continue to be fierce, to put it mildly, there hasn't actually been any reduction. So all of this political capital being spent on something that may actually not be having much of effect at all.
- [15:54]
David Knowles
Well, Donald Trump said the US Navy was going to escort tankers through the Strait of Hormuz. Then he Said that they might do it in part of a coalition. Yeah, we'd love to, but as coalition members, we're not really up at the front line. We're a little bit back, aren't we? So, you know, we can't really, can't really be expected to do that. Over to you, U.S. navy.
- [16:11]
Francis Durnley
Well, indeed. Well, speaking of President Trump, he's actually ratcheted up the rhetoric today, calling Iran's leaders deranged scumbags and saying they've been killing innocent people all over the world for 47 years. And now I, as the 47th President of the United States of America, am killing them. What a great honor it is to do so. Now, war used to be framed as a tragic necessity by previous administrations, but this White House is frankly reveling in the destruction it's causing. A video published by the White House splices up clips from the Nintendo game Wii Sports. With them blow up targets. Now, this is such a staggering clip that many people actually believed it was fake when it was published a few hours ago. But it's real. It's real and it's well worth watching. If you haven't had the opportunity to see it and you're listening to this on the audio version and the video version, you will have just seen a clip from it. I think another aspect of this is worth bearing in mind. Wii Sports was fundamentally a family game. You know, anyone recalls it from that time, millions of copies were sold. It's just, I mean, I think, I think, to be honest with you, tasteless doesn't do it justice.
- [17:22]
David Knowles
Yeah, I saw that. And then bizarrely, and I think this was genuine. Didn't China put out some kind of repost? They've done an AI generated cartoony thing as well. Not about military strikes like that, but having a go at America. And it's just sort of descended into literally cartoonish behavior by these two world powers. I find, as you say, it is staggering that this is the, the level. I mean, because, okay, it's, some of it might be quite funny because the cartoon clips are funny, but then it's not a funny subject. So what are we, are we supposed to laugh at this now? Is it's a game? I mean, I don't like when we report in the news, you know, I don't like talking about game changing weapons and things. Like I say, it's not, it's not a game. Anyone who's ever been close to any of this stuff. No, it's not. It's not a game. And so to then Sort of so consciously go through the looking glass or to be unaware of that, that a lot of service personnel, veterans, their families, anyone who's been close to any of this stuff and under bombardment, it's not a game, it's not funny. And trying to inject humor into it, it's like, why? What, what are you hoping to achieve? It's just I. I was staggered when I saw it.
- [18:27]
Francis Durnley
Yeah, so was I. And just while we're on the subject of video games, one has been released on Steam called Ukrainian Warfare Gostamel Heroes, which users claim spreads Kremlin propaganda and portrays the Russian army as heroes. Ukrainian gamers are saying that people should be reporting this on the uses to basically try and get this banned. As an example of where some Russian developers are praising the special operation in Ukraine. Now, while all of this is going on, Ukraine is trying to underscore that it does have cards saying that it's ready to sign a major agreement with the US on drone production and air defenses. Many are saying President Zelenskyy has been vindicated for the remarks he made in that now notorious encounter with President Trump in the Oval Office back in February. Just listen to this VI viral video which clips what Zelensky said then.
- [19:20]
David Knowles
During the war, everybody has problems, even you. But you have nice ocean and don't feel now, but you will feel it in the future. God bless. You don't know that. God bless. God bless. Don't tell us what we're going to feel. We're trying to solve a problem. I'm not telling you. You're in no position to dictate what we're going to feel.
- [19:39]
Francis Durnley
We're going to feel very good. We're going to feel very good and very strong.
- [19:43]
David Knowles
You will feel influenced. You're right now not in a very good position. You're gambling with the lives of millions of. You're gambling with World War Three. And what you're doing is very disrespectful to the country, this country.
- [19:55]
Francis Durnley
Now, Zelenskyy's just arrived in Paris for yet another meeting with President Macron. I think that's the 11th visit to France since the full scale invasion and the second this year. So quite a partnership forming between the two of them. We understand the leaders will discuss French and European support for Ukraine's defence and ways to increase pressure on Russia, namely by targeting the shadow fleet. Zelenskyy was also in Romania yesterday to sign a strategic partnership between Bucharest and Kyiv, expanding cooperation in the energy and defence sectors, working to jointly produce drones and constructing two new power supply lines with Romania to strengthen energy security in Ukraine's border regions. Now, this also is interesting. I think Romania is a country, it's worth us doing some more deeper dives on in the future. Obviously a NATO member, former Soviet state, but with a very, very, very, I think clear sighted view on Russia. And obviously given their geography and what we've seen in terms of the drone incursions has a very strong role to play. And whenever we're talking about Moldova, Romania, Moldova have strong ties. Even the Moldovan president, Maya Sandu wants to see a potential reunification between those two countries. So this is a key sector of the eastern flank of Europe, which I think, as I say, deserves more attention.
- [21:11]
David Knowles
Black Sea coastline indeed.
- [21:13]
Francis Durnley
But I can't possibly finish my segment, Don, without giving you an update on the bank heist that's caught listeners and now viewers attention around the world. So get this, Hungary has now returned gold, nope, the two seized armored bank vehicles to Ukraine, but has decided to withhold the $82 million cash and gold that it seized, claiming that it's investigating alleged money laundering, an accusation that Keef denies and has condemned as theft. Theft. Now, I have to say, like many people who've been writing in bucket loads to us about this, I also found it hard to believe that that much cash could fit into a couple of vehicles. So I've done some research, at least five minutes worth, on how much money is typically transferred via road or train, via banks. It's actually more than you would think a lot of the time. Although interestingly, the 1963 Great Train Robbery here in Britain saw robbers take 120 bags of cash and that equated to £70 million in today's money, which makes you wonder how it's become so much easier to transport vast amounts in apparently a shorter space in vehicles. So anyway, if you're a bank robber or are involved in planning some kind of multi million heist, do get in touch and answer some of these questions for us. It certainly caught people's attention, as I say, but that's us up to date, Dom.
- [22:32]
David Knowles
Thank you, Francis. And now to our regular segment with Dr. Jade McGlynn of King's College, London, dedicated to the occupied territories.
- [22:46]
Francis Durnley
Well, Jade, lovely to have you back on Ukraine, the latest and without rabid dogs this time. First of all, any other reflections from your time in Ukraine when we last heard from you a fortnight ago?
- [22:56]
Dr. Jade McGlynn
I'm afraid I'm struggling for originality at this point because obviously I travel back and forth between Ukraine so often. But I think the main one was, just as always, I think that distinction between, particularly in East Ukraine, like the energy, the ideas, like the solutions, like the capacity at which solutions to problems are found, and then trying to engage and to find places against the bluntly what often feels like the sheer paralysis. I don't like to criticize Britain specifically because there are so many wonderful things Britain is doing, but it really does feel so slow on the British side, so difficult to find, and it's actually easier to often find solutions in foreign governments. So I think just that general attention and also, to be honest, perhaps I shouldn't veer into this, but some general confusion as to what is happening maybe inside General Budanov's former institution of her of course, a public space isn't the place to get into it, but Carnegie has published a certain analysis and I'm happy to provide the link if people are interested in what's happening there. But it does seem like there's rather an awful lot of paperwork for an institution that has not not normally been famous for its paperwork. So I'm watching that with some interest and with some some confusion over what the direction will be in this post Budanov, if there can ever be a post Budanov era in her.
- [24:18]
Francis Durnley
Indeed. Well, we'll definitely, I'm sure, get into that in a future episode, but today we've got a few other subjects we want to focus on first, before we talk about the usual updates of acts of resistance in the occupied territories. The first, of course, is the big report into abducted children by Russia from the Occupied territor that I spoke about at length with the commissioner at the UN yesterday in yesterday's episode. If you missed that, I heartily recommend listening to it and reading the report. It makes, well, sobering reading doesn't really do it justice. But Jade, from your expert perspective, when you read the report, I imagine a lot of it wasn't new. But at the same time, I wonder if there was anything that really jumped out at you.
- [24:59]
Dr. Jade McGlynn
I think because as you say, of course a lot of the information wasn't new. I mean, some of the collation of statistics. It's incredibly helpful to have this report. It's incredibly helpful to publish on a much lower scale. Nastra Romanyuk from Apora and I published an academic article this week which was on the reasons behind the abduction of children. Because, of course, Russians are not just saying, oh, because we're really evil, we're going to do this, but looking at some of the ways that it helps them to govern and terrify people in the occupied territory. And it was an arduous process because of course an academic article can be quite an esoteric activity at times. But it's so important to have these, these whether or not it's a report or whether or not it's an academic article, to have them published and to have them as part of the foundation of knowledge that people can cite and refer to. So gratitude that it was published and of course for all of their published reports. I actually started reading and then immediately stopped because I couldn't handle the comments so early on. The quotation of your mum won't come to get you. She doesn't have the money, she won't be able to get to the border. And I don't like to do this sort of as a mother comment, but of course, because I am a mother, it's just so heartbreaking. So it actually took me a couple of tries to read the whole document because those quotations, it's much easier to read dry statistics, as awful as that sounds, than it is to engage with what a child must feel when they are told that their mom isn't coming for them. I think it's an excellent report that does a great job of providing knowledge, but also not losing the humanity and the inhumanity that this entire process covers.
- [26:29]
Francis Durnley
Yes, I think that is something the report does very well, is it has these case studies woven throughout which draws out the human experience in, in a very profound and sobering way. So again we will link to, to that report in the show notes and recommend it to everybody who is covering this subject in detail because it is one of those reports that I think will be very often cited in the months and years ahead. But Jade, there are some other subjects that you wanted to talk about today.
- [26:55]
Dr. Jade McGlynn
Yes. So I understand that in the coming days or weeks you may have an interview with Petro Andrushenko and I just refer to that because this has been one of our conversations, mine and his convers conversation this week, or perhaps it was last week already around forced conscription. Because forced conscription is something that comes up quite a lot in the media. And some listeners may remember that in 2022 in the occupied territories we really did see this large scale kind of men snatching. And this is where the word busification originally comes from, loading men onto buses in Donetsk region in particular and in Luhansk region, those areas that had been occupied since 2014. But in general we haven't seen that sort of mass scale forced conscription inside the post 2022 occupied territories. And so it's something that we watched. That's not to say there hasn't been forced conscription. There very much has, but it's not been on that scale. And so of course we're always sort of watching and recently we've seen in particular in occupied Zaporizhzhia, incredible efforts to start building up databases to expand the administrative services that would be needed if there were to be a large scale forced mobilization so far. Often a lot of the people who are forcibly mobilized in the occupied territories are of course political undesirables from the Russian point of view, people who've commit, committed some kind of minor crime and also migrants. So Russia went to considerable efforts to attract migrants to the occupied territories. Those same, you know, often from Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, example. And those same migrants are often the targets of the forced conscription campaigns. But thinking about this topic on two levels. First of all, thinking about some of the figures that General Dmitry Usov has since made public, but that he was shared with me during a meeting at chq, so his civilian headquarters last year, that of the Russian prisoners of war in Ukraine, 16% of them were illegally mobilized Ukrainians from the temporarily occupied territories. So it's quite a notable figure. But also looking at kind of some of the statistics, I mean in terms of the forced mobilization in the occupied part of Zaporizhzhia and the occupied part of Kherson, it was 560 and 478. So that was as of July 1, 2025. So they're actually pretty small numbers, particularly if you compare them to say, for examp, Crimea, where you're looking at 35,271. So backed up what I was saying that you haven't seen that mass scale forced conscription, of course the population of Crimea is much larger, but even still. But that's something that we're looking at. And also it got me to thinking about the administrative processes and the need for administrators. And without wanting to become too arrentian and thinking about the banality of these topics, one of the areas I've been looking into as part of my academic work at King's with a different researcher from Ilya. Big hello to and thank you to Ilya, of course, as always, but a different researcher who's also Ukrainian is we've been looking into who are the Russians who move to the occupied territories. To what extent is this structural and state led, to what extent is there agency? And as always in the answer to any of these kind of complicated questions, it's a bit of both. There's a clear state project with state objectives. But to talk about coercion is in the vast majority of cases, like completely inappropriate. It's people been choosing as we've been looking at sort of the different spectrums. So there's a program called the Zemsky program, Zemsky. And it encourages people, Russians to move to different areas and they have it already for the regions to encourage Russians to move to certain regions that are, for example, depopulated. But it's interesting because the bonus that you get for going to the occupied territories is double the amount of the bonus that you would get to going to a Russian region, for example. So that's one of the more obvious kind of state programs. But we also look at sort of the way that officials and administrators are sent over. In particular Kirienko. Sergey Kirienko effectively is in charge of running the occupied territories. He's the first deputy head of the presidential administration. He very much has overseen a shift from having locals to having Moscow installed officials who then spend a bit of time in the occupied territories and will then be rewarded with a plum position on their return. So there are clearly these pressures. There are also a lots of incentive to get people to come out there. On the other hand, you have ideological types. So in particular, what we're interested in there is the religious aspects of the role of the Russian Orthodox Church, both in encouraging and indeed in people going there especially take over Ukrainian Orthodox Church property or the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church. And so looking at that and looking at the fact that even where some people have not gone over for ideological reasons, because they're teachers or because they're involved in the education process or even in the healthcare sector, they do end up becoming agents of ideological indoctrination. So those are the processes we want to look at. To a certain extent, it's going to be very difficult to understand fully what are people's motivations, but at least to work out what might be the incentives or the push factors and to try to get a better idea, because I'll follow up on it more. But some of the demographic figures that are coming out of e.g. mariupol would suggest that the local population in the next 12 years, essentially on current rates of birth and death rates, and because of course, so many old people stayed behind and so much of the working age population, you're essentially looking, looking at the total disappearance of the Ukrainian local population in Mariupol. And so I think we need to have a better understanding of who are the populations who are in and, and replacing Them so grim, as usual, I'm afraid.
- [32:23]
Francis Durnley
Well, it sounds like a very important research subject. And I mean, it's classic imperialist, colonialist behavior, isn't it? Let's be honest. This is textbook. And I think that that's an important point just to underscore, because we're not seeing something that is particularly, particularly innovative here. This is something that has been Russian imperialist behavior and imperial behavior that has been going on for centuries, really. And anybody who thinks that this is some kind of different state needs to reflect on that. And as I said in the conversation that I had with the commissioner at the UN yesterday, the terminology evacuations, which is often used in relation to the occupied territories, is something straight out of the 1940s. So I just mentioned that because I think sometimes people think that it's almost unbelievable because it's too antiquated, almost. They almost don't believe it because it comes across as something from a different age. And yet this is happening now. And I. Again, it speaks to something that we've spoken about many times, Jade, on the podcast with you, which is that we're dealing almost with a. A different mentality today with regard to what we think is possible. Possible of happening in the world. And so when you see something like this that many people just think this isn't actually happening, like in some way, this is almost propaganda that it can't be that bad.
- [33:41]
Dr. Jade McGlynn
I do. I do. I think there's a natural understanding, and I think it comes from a good place to try to rationalize, to try to make it less horrible. And I had originally planned to do today's video, but in the end it didn't work out. From the monument to the victims of totalitarianism, there's a beautiful garden, and it sits by a quite striking monument in Tallinn to those who were deported, imprisoned, executed during the Soviet occupations and the Soviet invasions. And of course, it's a difficult, you know, monument and memorial to visit anyway, but I find it especially difficult because you read through it, and it's just exactly the same methods. Yeah, it's the same methods as are happening now. And I remember when I was younger and probably happier and more naive, I used to think, in the 1930s, how do people let it get to that position? And without one wanting to draw a basic and obvious analogy, but just talk about how did people let these terrible crimes happen? And now I completely understand how.
- [34:37]
Francis Durnley
Yes, absolutely. I think many, many people will echo that sentiment. I mean, as we've said, I was naive enough to believe that when People said never again. We actually meant that. And that had weight behind those words in the west. And yet we have seen in just a handful of years how really empty those words were in several key respects. But Jade, are there any other subjects you want to talk about before we get into the updates for this week?
- [35:00]
Dr. Jade McGlynn
No, I think, I think we've depressed listeners enough.
- [35:04]
Francis Durnley
Fair, fair enough. Well, let's get to the resistance then. So where do you want to start in that respect?
- [35:09]
Dr. Jade McGlynn
So there was a slight dip in this fortnight. So we had 11 confirmed operations and that's between the 25th of February and, and the 12th of March. Again the focus on sabotage, arson attacks on, on transport, disruption of railway logistics. What's interesting is the re emergence of Luhansk. So there are of course active partisans in Luhansk and Indeed some of two very famous partisans who were in Luhansk from 2014 to 2021. They're quite frequent media contributors in the Ukrainian space. Now perhaps you should speak to one of them. He's Artem Karjakin or known as Hydni or Eastern is his kind of. Oh, he forgotten. Forget the word for this. I want to say, is it call sign? I always want to say battle.
- [35:52]
Francis Durnley
Yes, even that's, that's not call sign is correct.
- [35:55]
Dr. Jade McGlynn
There we go again. These words that I only really use in Ukrainian or Russian. I don't need to know how to say air defense in England. Thank God, long may it be that way. But yes, so we see the re emergence of Luhansk and of course Mariupol features too. So for example, on, on 2 March in Mariupol, sabotage against Russian air defence positions. And this is an interesting, interesting point because the position of air defense often, sometimes people ask me, okay, but resistance members, for example, people in the occupied territories are sending coordinates. But can't people just find this information via OSINT or Geosync or of course signals intelligence? And of course they may be able to find some, but certain things. For example, some of the air defense points can be quite small or for example electronic warfare points and being able to identify them may be just involve walking around the city. So this is one of those kind of examples. And yes, it was a fire arson at Russian air defence position. It's on the road between Mariupol and Mangush, which is to my mind just to the south. But I feel like my friends from Mariupol are going to shout at me if I got that wrong. So I apologize if Mangush is to the north. So it's obviously about efforts to reduce Russian protection in the rear, because Mariupol is unfortunately, you know, really very much in the rear now. And it shows that there's still a vulnerability for military sites. In Luhansk on the 3rd of March and we saw railway relay cabinets. So this was Hatash who very much like going after the railway relay cabinets. That's their thing. And of course it's very central. Understandable why the railway central to logistics. In Mariupol on the 4th of March we saw a destruction, burning, arson of a vehicle. So of course compared to the 2 March case, it's a much smaller scale action, but it's pretty much all part of the same operational logic, just slowing down both vehicles. Either for the military or indeed for patrols, it's quite normal. Normal for the FSB to just drive around and just beat up random people. Or for police or occupation, various occupation forces just drive around, beat up random people, stop them, maybe rough them up as well. It shouldn't. Sometimes I imagine there's probably not always an operational logic, but might just be a sense of revenge because for the indignities suffered in Luhansk region. Again, there was an incident reported on 6 March with the involvement of Srok and destruction of transport that was being used by Khadir of fighters. So in general, the Kadyrovtsi or the Chechen fighters, they do tend to be quite safely ensconced in the rear. They're good. It would appear most Ukrainian soldiers I've ever asked about this, or Ukrainian kind of officers who have insights, explain good dancers, don't do any fighting, you know, it's very much for show and I think that's pretty well established by now, even in Western media. So those were the most interesting of the resistance operations. Of course, on Shevchenko's birthday, which was the 9th of March, which also followed in, there were various kind of elements of people photographing quotes from the Kobzar, which is his famous poetry collection, and there were different kind of non violent acts to mark that. And that's quite common now. So whilst that sort of non violent resistance has inevitably died down in terms of the public element, because it's just become so much less safe and also because. Because bluntly, it's not 2022, it's not 2023, I think most people understand liberation is not coming anytime soon, which doesn't mean it won't ever come, but it's not coming anytime soon, unfortunately. And these types of activities do tend to be focused around Kind of key days or important Ukrainian national days now, rather than a kind of generic point, which again completely makes sense and I would suggest a wise move.
- [39:40]
Francis Durnley
Well, thank you, Jade, for talking us through those. And of course, as you say to Ilya for his help in compiling that, before you go, I just wonder if there are any broad trends that we should be reflecting on in terms of resistance in the occupied territories. If zoomed out and looking at, say, you know, the first months of this year or the past six months or the past year or so, have there been any changes that are significant in terms of the scale of these, the types of operation? I know you referenced before that there had been more caution in some of the way that this information was being relayed outside of the occupied territories. But I just interested before, before you go, anything else that's caught your eye
- [40:20]
Dr. Jade McGlynn
in terms of the broad trend? I suppose I look at three areas. One kind of the scale, second the types, and then third, and this is a trickier one, the kind of the interaction with Free Ukraine. So if we think about the scale, I'd say it's pretty stable in terms of the numbers. For example, during January, not much is happening because it's the holiday period, etc. Etc. But I guess partisans also need to
- [40:42]
Francis Durnley
take holidays or the weather may play a role, I suppose. Suppose as well, yeah.
- [40:46]
Dr. Jade McGlynn
But in general we see pretty stable figures and that has been the case since early 2024, I would suggest, because after the failure of the counter offensive kind of became accepted or I suppose internalized. There was of course, a shift and maybe those who stay behind it tend to be more professional or had by that point become more professionalised or were more motivated by hatred and revenge than maybe by hope for liberation. And that's disorder. A difference. The second in terms of the type, yes, of course, most of my sources just run 90% of the resistance is essentially sending coordinates or sending information like human intelligence. Of course, with the recent shift from Ukraine from hitting the petrol refineries, oil refineries, to hitting military sites and military production sites, which I think is a very wise strategic decision, because as much as we all, all like to watch, you know, random things in Russia burn, ultimately hitting production sites, especially if you can find this production site that maybe rely very much on imported technology that cannot be easily replaced under sanctions or certainly not quickly replaced, that seems to me a much more strategic effort. Of course, those actions then, and that human intelligence and the ability to just have people on the ground who will go and check that. Actually, yes, it was hit, that becomes very important. So naturally we've seen a shift towards that. And of course, we couldn't have seen that in 2022 do, because you didn't have drone warfare of the type that we see now or other forms of strikes that are made possible. The other aspect I would draw attention to as well is of course, like the loneliness now of people who are helping the occupied territories. Because it really does have to be quite a, you know, a really very secret and very lonely and individualized experience. Whereas, I mean, speaking to one of my friends who used to run resistance operations in Kharkiv region, they just had a signal chat and people would just share. And the idea of that now is just completely impossible. But it was possible there. Not to say that it was ideal even then, but the fact that it even was possible and these people were not rounded up I think just speaks to how much things have changed. And then finally, in terms of the interaction with the Ukrainian side, I think things are very messy. And one of the questions that I struggle with sometimes is how to systematize lessons learned so they could be applied and elsewhere. I mean, that's. That's a project that I've worked on for papers commissioned by. By various ministries. And it's very difficult because it's very difficult to systemize what is a quite anarchic and often flawed and then sometimes truly excellent, you know, approach to this. Although, to be honest with you, I'd say the main obstacle to learning the lessons isn't any flaw on. On Ukraine's side or even the anarchy of it. It's that Western mindset are just incapable of understanding or translating it into their systems which are so bureaucratic and arcane and essentially just can't work that logically or intelligently most of the time. Yes, I think probably that won't change the kind of the anarchy of the system that you don't really have one group of people who are sort of in charge of it all. I think that's probably for the best. Personally, I think we also have to be aware that I think if we're talking more generally about the population of the occupied territories, I think there, unfortunately, we are seeing just a continuation of most of the Ukrainian government's just lack of engagement with the occupied territories. And I hope that it's an issue that countries, because there are many European countries and governments who do care about the occupied territories, and ultimately we're talking about fellow Europeans who are from droids who just do not have access to proper health care, don't have access to proper sanitary conditions and we're just ignoring them. And that's, I just don't think to go back to those kind of moral questions that you brought up, like it's just not good, good enough.
- [44:25]
Francis Durnley
Well, a telling fact. And just going back to what you were saying before, it makes one wonder how many heroes, how many people who are sharing this information will never be known, or if they are known, it will be decades and decades from now, just like with the Second World War or even the First World War that we, we recall these agents who, who did incredible things and yet it was covered up and not known about for such a period of time.
- [44:51]
Dr. Jade McGlynn
Well, it's interesting to say that last, well, it was a couple of weeks ago now. I was speaking to a former partisan from occupied Hasson, so Left Bank Hassan. And it's a story that I've heard from many other kind of former partisans as well that they shared all of this, but there was no real way to unless they could then get in touch with the person who they were in contact with, who, of course you could have changed their number. So many things could have happened, particularly if it was 2022. It was a bit easier before 2022 and then afterwards where things stabilized. Not only could you not prove that you were a hero and all the heroic things you had done, but also you were under suspicion because it's why did you stay under occupation?
- [45:29]
Francis Durnley
Gosh, yes, of course. Well, Jade, thank you so much as ever for your time. Thank you, Ilya, for helping to compile the updates for us and we will see you in a couple of weeks.
- [45:39]
Dr. Jade McGlynn
Jade, thank you. Thank you both.
- [45:41]
Francis Durnley
Bite.
- [45:57]
Dr. Jade McGlynn
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- [47:05]
David Knowles
Muchas velas y examinarte control cancer de colono es mastra table. La preva de cologuard nor rem Plaza La colonoscopia empacientes de altor riesgo nous es cologard si as tenido adenomas citienesierto syndrome es hereditarios o un historial Persona familiar de cancer de colon PI de la preva de cologarda tu medico paramas informacion en cologardpun.com diagonal
- [47:52]
Dr. Jade McGlynn
okay, I have to tell you, I was just looking on ebay where I go for all kinds of things I love. And there it was.
- [47:58]
David Knowles
That hologram trading card. One of the rarest. The last one I needed for my set.
- [48:02]
Dr. Jade McGlynn
Shiny like the designer handbag of my dreams.
- [48:05]
David Knowles
One of a kind.
- [48:06]
Dr. Jade McGlynn
Ebay had it. And now everyone's asking, ooh, where'd you
- [48:10]
Francis Durnley
get your windshield wipers? Ebay has all the parts that fit my car. No more annoying, just beautiful.
- [48:17]
Dr. Jade McGlynn
Millions of finds, each with a story. EBay Things people love.
- [48:32]
David Knowles
Let's go to final thoughts. Francis, what would you want to leave listeners with and viewers, I suppose, for the weekend?
- [48:38]
Francis Durnley
Well, an update on the growing row over Russia's inclusion at the Venice Biennale. The EU has now got involved in threatening to pull its funding for the festival. They're warning they may scrap grants after organizers allowed Russia to reopen its pavilion for the first time since 2020, slammed that move as incompatible with the EU's response to Russia's invasion. Now at least 22 ministers of culture and Foreign affairs from across Europe have jointly addressed the leadership of the Biennale. The event doesn't actually properly get underway until May, so it feels like this pressure is only going to mount on them. There's an interesting piece published by the Russia Desk about the history of Russian involvement in Libyannale over the decades. Each country has a purpose built pavil its own, which allows them to display art from artists in respective countries. And apparently the Russian one was built in 1914, but was ironically financed by a Ukrainian philanthropist. You couldn't make it up. The Russian imperial officials had shown no interest in an international art exhibition. The piece goes on, though. After World War I and the collapse of the Russian Empire, the Soviet Union returned to Venice in 1924, but skipped the 1926 exhibition under a 1925 Politburo decree concerning the undesirable nature of participation in art exhibitions abroad. Probably something to do with it being associated with the bourgeois. However, fascinatingly, the pavilion was kindly made available to host an exhibition on Italian futurism organized by Marinetti. Now, again, that's ironic given that the Futurists were associated, of course, with the fascist movement in the 1930s and beyond. But Soviet artists didn't return to Venice until after Stalin's death and the great thaw that followed that. So it's just an interesting little potted history of a subject that, as I say, caught people's attention this week.
- [50:38]
David Knowles
Sorry, we finished?
- [50:39]
Francis Durnley
Yeah, thank you.
- [50:42]
David Knowles
Loving Futures.
- [50:44]
Francis Durnley
They're interesting movement, Dom, the Futurists, because they were obsessed with the idea of technology being the great cause of progression in human affairs. And so they kind of fetishized war really. And then obviously the first World War quite quickly shook that out of a lot of them, but not all of them. Hence why, as I say, they became associated with, with Mussolini and others. Okay, I know the people back home are loving this. All right, so even if you're not.
- [51:07]
David Knowles
No, no, I'm loving it. My final thought, much more. Highbrow pizza.
- [51:13]
Francis Durnley
Oh yeah.
- [51:13]
David Knowles
A Russian man who tattooed the Domino's logo on his ankle to win a century of free pizza has lost a court battle after the promotional offer was withdrawn. So this chap called Dimitri Mezzi, Moscow Risen. He was one of 350 winners in 2018 of Domino Pizza's Domino's Forever campaign. He won 100 free pizzas a year for 100 years. I mean, right? Yeah, don't worry about the math.
- [51:42]
Francis Durnley
I can't believe I missed this. I should have signed up.
- [51:44]
David Knowles
Well, no. So to secure this offer, he had to get a tattoo of the company's logo at least 2cm in length on a visible part of his body and post the results on social media. So. So he did. He chose his ankle, you know, colored blue and red colors, all the thing. Domino's Pizza. He won it, got the free pizzas until the campaign was canceled in 2023. Domino's did offer to fund cover up tattoos for participants, but no, Mr. Mizensev was unhappy. He took them to court demanding his annual quota of 100 pizzas stipulated. 100 pizzas with a 28 centimeter diameter until the year 21. 118. He also wanted compensation for moral damages. I don't know, that means because, you
- [52:27]
Francis Durnley
know, morale damages maybe. I'd be pretty cheesed off if cheese.
- [52:33]
David Knowles
Anyway, so all this came to head and on Wednesday this week, the reason I raise it is Wednesday this week, Moscow court ruled in the company's favor. So it's been thrown out. And he's not, he's not getting his. He's not getting his century of free pizza. But he did say, he has said all this in the past, bearing in mind this was five years. They canceled the thing five years after. So he's had 500 pizza pizzas. He said, well, no, he wouldn't. So he won it in 2018 and then they stopped it in 2023. So you have five years of so 500 pieces. He said, I got sick of pizza.
- [53:03]
Francis Durnley
No he didn't.
- [53:05]
David Knowles
I got sick of pizza. But obligations to customers have to be fulfilled. It's a matter of principle.
- [53:11]
Francis Durnley
Well, I know how much you enjoy pizza, Dom. Or don't actually. I mean you were feeding it to those dogs in Kee like there's no tomorrow dog singular. Much to that. Ladies apologize. Yeah, there's actually a photograph out there, everybody of Dom and I having dominoes. The American summer party, wasn't it?
- [53:29]
David Knowles
Fourth of July.
- [53:29]
Francis Durnley
We actually asked the Domino's tent to reopen so that we could get one. Some drinks may have been consumed at the time.
- [53:38]
David Knowles
Right. That's us for the weekend. We'll be back same time, same place Monday. Do hope you can join us. Cheers folks. Thanks Francis.
- [53:43]
Francis Durnley
Thanks everyone. See you next week. Ukraine the Latest is an original podcast from the Telegraph created by David Knowles. Every episode featuring us in the studio maps and battlefield footage is now available to watch on our YouTube channel. Subscribe@www.YouTube.com crane the latest there's a link in the description. You can also sign up to the Ukraine the Latest newsletter each week we answer your questions, provide recommended reading and give exclusive analysis and behind the scenes insights plus diagrams of the front lines and weaponry to complement our reporting. It's free for everyone including non subscribers. You can find the link to sign up in the episode description. If you appreciate our work, please consider following Ukraine the latest on your preferred podcast app and leave us a review as it helps others find the show. Please also share it with those who may not be aware we exist. You can also get in touch directly to ask questions or give comments by emailing ukrainepodelegraph.co.uk we continue to read every message. You can also contact us directly on X. You'll find our handles in the description. As ever, we're especially interested to hear where you're listening from around the world. And finally, to support our work and stay on top of our of all of our Ukraine news, analysis and dispatches from the ground. Please subscribe to the Telegraph. You can get one month for free, then two months for just one pound at www.telegraph.co.uk Ukraine the latest Ukraine the Latest was Today produced by Rachel Porter. Executive producers are Francis Dernley, Louisa Wells and David Knowles.
- [55:28]
David Knowles
My name is David Knowles. Thank you all all for listening. Goodbye.
- [55:40]
Dr. Jade McGlynn
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David Knowles
ACAST powers the World's Best Podcasts Here's a show that we recommend. Do you like being educated on things that entertain but don't matter? Well, then you need to be listening to the Podcast with Knox and Jamie. Every Wednesday we put together an episode dedicated to delightful idiocy to give your brain a break from all the serious and important stuff.
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Dr. Jade McGlynn
Whether we're deep diving a classic music, dissecting the true meanings behind the newest slang, or dunking on our own listeners for their bad takes or cringy stories, we always approach our topics with humor and just a little bit of side eye. And we end every episode with recommendations on all the best new movies, books, TV shows or music.
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David Knowles
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