← Ukraine: The Latest
Ukraine: The Latest
Ukraine ‘on the offensive’ after Russian starlink shutdown & fresh peace talks to start in Geneva ‘next week’
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- [00:00]
Lily Shanaher
Foreign.
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Dom Nichols
Is now ready. Dr. Horton, America's builder has new homes that are ready today. With new construction communities throughout the Puget Sound and Central Washington areas And more coming, Dr. Horton has the right home for you at Dr. Horton. We're still building. With more construction, more communities and more homes available every day. 10 Tap your screen now or visit drhorton.com to find your new home. Now ready. Dr. Horton, America's Builder an equal housing opportunity builder ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's the show that we recommend.
- [00:49]
Olga Braga
Galactic Year 6967 420-428-0085 the War for the spark rages on. Yet one last hope remains. Four ancient warriors are about to take to the stars and take the galaxy by storm.
- [01:08]
Dom Nichols
Hey, so here's what you're gonna do. You're gonna go to HTTPs.
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Olga Braga
They added that colon.
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Dom Nichols
Yeah, Gotta check on that. Oh, don't we all. I wish I were dead.
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Lily Shanaher
Colonies.
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Olga Braga
Dungeons and Daddies presents Grandpas and Galaxies, an improvised actual play senior star citizen space Opera adventure. Coming February 10th to our solar system.
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Dom Nichols
Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com. I'm Dom Nichols and this is Ukraine. The latest today as national leaders arrive in Germany. We report on expectations for this weekend's Munich security conference. We assess reaction to the announcements made at yesterday's Ramstein summit. And we look at how Russia has moved to supply Cuba with oil. Plus we have our regular segment on resistance activities in the past fortnight in the occupied territories. And a cultural segment interviewing the writer of a new play showing in London about the Donbass region of Ukraine. Bravery takes you through through the most unimaginable hardships to finally reward you with victory.
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Olga Braga
The Russia does not want peace. If I'm president, I will have that war settled in one day.
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Lily Shanaher
24 hours.
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Dom Nichols
We are with you. Not just today or tomorrow, but for 100 years.
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Olga Braga
Nobody's going to break us.
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Dom Nichols
We are strong. We are Ukrainians. It's Friday the 13th of February, three years and 356 days since the full scale invasion began. And today I'm joined by foreign reporter Lynny Shanaher and my co hosts Adli Pojm? Ponte and Francis Dernley. I started with a look ahead at the weekend President Zelensky has landed in Munich for the weekend security conference. He's expected to visit a joint Ukrainian German defense company, then have bilateral meetings with Friedrich Merz, Metta Fredriksen, Alexander Stubb and Netherlands Prime Minister Dick Schouf. Before participating in the Berlin format meeting with leaders of European countries plus the eu, NATO and us. Secretary of State Marco Rubio is expected to attend a few other people as well. I think then President Zelenskyy is due to give a speech to the conference around midday local tomorrow, Saturday. In a tweet, he said, the most significant thing we can achieve together is ending the war with a dignified peace and creating reliable security guarantees for Ukraine and for all of Europe, so that no one in Europe is afraid of being left without protection. Thank you to everyone who is helping. Finished with an exclamation mark. Learnt a thing OR 2 From Mr. D Trump of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. Now that follows yesterday's Defence Ministerial meeting at n at which $38bn was pledged for Ukraine that's going to be spent on military capabilities, including drones, air defense missiles, Patriots, all that kind of stuff. Ukraine's MOD said it was one of the most successful Ukraine defense contact group meetings yet. Germany said it's going to supply about a billion dollars for drones. They're going to finance an air defense fuel project over Ukrainian cities. Britain, as we reported yesterday, is going to make 500 million quid available for air defense, another 150 million put into the Pearl pot. The MOD here said that they're going to continue the annual military assistance of 3 billion quid throughout this year to Ukraine. And then you remember that Estonian plan they came up with a couple of years ago, that if European NATO pledged a quarter of 1% of GDP for Ukraine, that would be enough to see them win the war? Well, there's been specific commitments, about a quarter of a percent of GDP this year from Estonia, as you might expect, but also the Netherlands and Latvia and probably some others. But I can't work out the gdp. GDP figures from the cash pledges from the likes of Belgium, Sweden, Denmark, Spain, Lithuania, Iceland. So lots of countries offering staff and or cash. Couple of noticeable absences. Ou sur trouve la France E do ve l'. Italia. Anyway, into Ukraine and Ukrainian forces are conducting localised and opportunistic counterattacks near the Dnipro, Petrovsk and Zaporizhzhia Oblast administrative border. As we've been saying the last couple of days, we think that's likely taking advantage of those recent blocks of Starlink and Telegram. So this is not some huge overarching coordinated counteroffensive, we don't think. We think it's localized, opportunistic retaking territory that Russia has not held or just sort of held with a Few infiltrators and flag dashers. Now Russian forces have been attacking near Kupiansk up in the northeast, pushing on the east, the southeast and south of the city up there. Ukrainian Joint Forces Task Force spokesperson Colonel Viktor Trebov speaking yesterday said that Ukrainian forces maintain physical control over Kupiansk and have surrounded a limited number of Russian forces that are still in the city in high rise buildings in the center. Now Trebov said that Russian forces are using drones to resupply them in Kubiansk because they can't get in via the ground. So it suggests that it's only a limited amount of time before all those last pockets are mopped up. Now in the rest of Ukraine, Russia launched an Iskander M ballistic missile and 154 attack drones across the country yesterday. At least 22 drones and that missile made it through air Defense, hitting 18 locations. At least nine people were killed and 28 others injured. Regional authorities said five of those killed were in Donetsk Oblast, including an eight year old boy that's I think the sixth child this week killed by Russia. And three of the killed were in Kramatorsk. Three of them were under 21 years of age. The other victim there in Kramatorsk was in his 60s. Druzhkivka, just to the south of Kramatorsk, was hit by glide bombs then in the south of the country. Odessa's port area was targeted along with residential, industrial and energy infrastructure facilities in the region. One person killed, six injured there. Dtec, that's Ukraine's largest private energy company, said there was extremely serious damage caused to energy facilities in the region that require extensive repairs. There were deaths and injuries in Kharkiv, Kherson, Zaporizhzhia and Dnipro Petrovsk oblasts. The ages of those injured in those areas range from 8 to 74. Now the commander of Ukraine's Unmanned Systems forces says Russian troop losses in January this year exceeded the number of newly mobilized and contracted soldiers for the second consecutive month. So Robert Magyar Brody said Russia had recruited OR mobilized around 22,000 personnel in January and there are verified Russian losses reaching just over 30,000. He was citing data from Ukraine's Defence Force drone units. So a difference of about 9,000 in January there was just under 6,000 deficit. So losses against those that have been mobilised in December against similar numbers as in similar numbers mobilised and lost, but the difference of about 6,000. So Magyar said that however, these imbalances are not a reason for applause. We do know, obviously, as Francis was saying yesterday, that that Ukraine wants to raise the monthly losses to around 50,000 Russian troops to significantly weaken Moscow's offensive potential. And then just the last one for me, we've spoken this week quite a lot about the Starlink switch off. And in the last couple of days, the Kremlin clamped down on Telegram. Well, now it's WhatsApp that's in their sights. Meta, the company that owns WhatsApp, said yesterday that Russian authorities were now attempting to fully block the WhatsApp service. This is all part of Moscow's plan to. To push people onto the Kremlin's own max messaging and digital services platform. One of those digital services being surveillance. They don't put that in the adverts, but I think that's fairly obvious now. In a statement, Meta said trying to isolate over 100 million users from private and secure communication is a backwards step and can only lead to less safety for people in Russia. We continue to do everything we can to keep users connected. Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov said WhatsApp doesn't comply with Russian laws and that, quote, the chance for reaching an agreement will arise if Meta engages in dialogue with the Russian authorities. So, you know, more of the typical do what we say stuff. Not sure that's going to play out particularly well. Russia declared Meta, the tech giant behind Facebook, Instagram threads and WhatsApp, an extremist organization in 2022. But WhatsApp was the company's only service that had yet to be blocked by Russia. However, now looks like that's going the same way as all the others. So that's a quick military update. Lilly, welcome back to the pod. You've been having a look at the diplomatic stuff. A busy weekend. What's caught your eye?
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Lily Shanaher
Yeah, hi. It's been exceptionally busy today in Munich so far at the security conference. I'm following it as it goes along, and there's been a number of speeches already. Friedrich Mertz, Mike Waltz has just spoken. Kaia Kallas. There's been a lot going on and a lot of statements. I've noticed that there's some very similar rhetoric to what happened in Davos. We've had Marco Rubio already saying that we live in a new era in geopolitics. Mertz has said that the world order as we know it is over. These are things that the leaders touched upon in Switzerland a few weeks ago. Merz has come in strong with some big defenses of Europe and some quite thinly veiled criticisms of the US but some relevant points I wanted to extract from his speech and subsequent Q and A about Russia are his mentions of Russia's, quote, violent revisionism, dictating its aggression against Ukraine. He said that one striking example is Russia's GDP is currently about 2 trillion euros and that of the EU is almost 10 times as high. But still Europe is not as 10 times as strong as Russia today. Talking about the untapped military, political, economic, technological potentials of the EU in comparison to Russia, he also said that Russia is not willing to talk seriously about Ukraine. And he said that the war will only end when Russia is at least economically and potentially militarily exhausted. Quote, we are approaching this time, but we are not there yet. He says Russia has to give up this terrible war against Ukraine. We have to do everything that is needed to bring them to the point where they see no further advantages for them to continue this terrible war. In the meantime, Zelensky has touched down and he's visited today the drone factory near Munich with Defense Minister Boris Pistorius. On Twitter earlier, he posted about visiting there and said that he received the first drone of many as a gift today. He's talked about them being battle powered.
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Dom Nichols
Battle powered.
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Lily Shanaher
He's talked about them being battle tested and powered by AI. He said that 10,000 manufactured are going to go to Ukraine this year alone. And he hopes to see 10 similar joint ventures set up in various places in the year to come. So that's some quite exciting news. In terms of defence.
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Dom Nichols
I mean, they've been saying this week that Ukraine's defence industrial base has about a third spare capacity. They were saying if they took orders from European countries, they could fulfill those orders in. In Ukraine, they're going pretty hard at these joint ventures, building stuff, factories and what have you, not just in Ukraine, but obviously that comes with the attendant risk of Russia trying to attack them, but having joint ventures outside the country or using, as I said, the spare capacity that's already in the existing Ukrainian manufacturing outlets. It's interesting. I mean, we wait to see if the orders will flow in.
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Lily Shanaher
Yeah. And the military cooperation perhaps also reflects the diplomatic cooperation that we've seen here, with Mertz saying that he stands strong with the EU and also with Ukraine. Similarly to Davos, there's also been a lot of sideline activities outside of the main conferences. So German and Ukrainian foreign ministers have opened Ukraine House, which will be a special space for events on Ukraine's future. And this evening, there's going to be a Ukraine panel as well, featuring a number of foreign ministers including Yvette Cooper from the UK and Andriy Subia from Ukraine. So the conference is going to continue over the weekend and the podcast plan is to give everyone an update from the there on Monday's episode. Yep, some more updates from me outside of Munich. As Dom mentioned before, we have final confirmation of the amount of military aid that Ukraine has managed to secure following the Ramstein meeting on February 12th of the Ukraine Defence Contact Group. So Ukraine's partners have pledged around $38 billion and that money will be allocated in part towards Ukrainian drones, prioritise Ukraine Requirements List initiative and air defence. There's been an interview in the Atlantic with Zelenskyy and he spoke with a friend of the podcast, Simon Schuster and he's spoken about the peace deal. He said that he would rather accept no deal than pressure his country into a bad one and that he wants a dignified, lasting peace and of course security guarantees that would prevent Russia from attacking again. He spoke a bit about the battlefield situation in which he insisted that Ukraine is not losing and that Ukraine's willingness to engage in peace talks should not be mistaken for a readiness to accept any agreement, especially bad one. And I thought it was interesting he did acknowledge that progress has lagged, but seemed insistent on getting it right and ensuring it to be lasting rather than just rushing through with one, which I think is what the US is promoting and then move over to Cuba. Now as we've seen in recent days, Cuba is all but grinding to a halt following the US ramping up its sanctions. It's now threatened anyone that supplies oil to Cuba with intense tariffs and that's all but scared off a lot of countries. But Russia is actually expected to supply Cuba with oil in upcoming days as part of a humanitarian effort. This is according to the pro government newspapers Vestia and this would be the first time in a year. I believe the last time that Russia supplied crude oil to Cuba was February 2025amid no oil or money going to Cuba from Venezuela. Now that's obviously been cut off and that was pretty much its lifeline. Mexico is also, I think the last time they provided oil was in January. And while China and Mexico are both sending humanitarian aid, it does seem to be Cuba is increasingly isolated from Latin America and its traditional allies as it faces up against Trump's threats. The government has had to put in an emergency plan to stop planes from refueling on the island for one month. There's rationing, there's reports of medical work halting and hospitals shutting down, tourists being transferred to other Resorts in a bid to save fuel and university, school and work are all having their days shortened as well. Russia has suspended flights to Cuba and evacuated tourists. And I believe that Canada is, is looking at changing flights as well because planes are not going to be able to refuel on the island for about one month. So considering no foreign fuel or oil tank has arrived in Cuba in weeks, this is really next level. There's been a trade embargo on the island since 1962 and they've gone through tough periods before, such as a special period in the 90s. But this one really looks to be quite extreme, actually. There's one question that I wonder is, would any Russian tankers going to the island be seized by Trump? We've seen that other ones have obviously been seized on their way around and Venezuelan tankers have been seized. Would this escalate tensions between the two? Dmitry Peskov said on Thursday, according to RIA Novosti, quote, we wouldn't want any escalation. But on the other hand, we don't have much trade right now with the US So remains to be seen. I mean, what do you think could happen?
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Dom Nichols
Well, it was noticeable, wasn't it, that Russia didn't come to Venezuela's aid when the US Took its action and the buildup, but also the action to go and grab Maduro. I mean, not that they really could do an awful lot in the 30 odd hours or however long that operation took, but they've obviously decided that this is something they feel they have to do. But yeah, it does beg the question, I mean, what happens now? I can't imagine that Trump would allow Russian shadow fleet tankers or even a flagged Russian tanker to go to Cuba. So is he going to board a vessel? And I wonder if Russia then uses that to their advantage and not use a shadow fleet. If they have a, quote, unquote, legitimate Russian tank oil tanker flagged to Russia, does America board that on its way to Cuba? But you've been to Cuba, so talk to us about how this will play out on the ground. Will the authorities be able to say, look, this is America again trying to grind us into the dirt? Will the authorities there be able to in any way make it play to their strengths? Or will the people see through this as tough as it is? Will they see that this is actually the US Taking action because of the way that Cuba's running?
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Lily Shanaher
I mean, Miguel Diaz Canel, he's the president, he's already set very strong, amped up patriotic rhetoric and the Cuban government has actually enacted a state of war, which it basically relies on. It's a Castro era ideology or doctrine that relies on mass mobilization of the people. So there's been a bunch of videos of civilians being trained up to use artillery and grenades and things like this. So the government is standing firm. They've said they would be open to talks with the US And Trump has suggested that he, he is going to be signing a deal with Cuba, but he hasn't stipulated what any of that is. Diaz Canel has said that he would be open to speaking with the US but under no pressure. He won't accept being pressurized by the U.S. he obviously is being pressurized by the U.S. and I mean, I was there last in 2024 and there were already blackouts there. Havana and Varadero, which is the main tourist destinations, were somewhat safe, but now there are reports of 24 hour blackouts with the energy grid basically all but shutting. And I spoke to an expert a few weeks ago who said that experts are unsure what Trump's intentions are, because should he open up the country and swap the leaders, there will be a mass migration either to Mexico or to the US which is the last thing that the Trump administration wants. And in fact, in recent months, they've removed the special privileges that Cuban migrants traditionally had to go to the US So there's that option. The other option is the fact that it isn't Venezuela. It's an ideological government that's been rooted for about 80 years. So it's not as easy as just swapping it over. There's not really a second in command in the same way as there's Delsey Rodriguez in Venezuela. And finally, Cuba doesn't have oil to offer the U.S. it seems to be purely a political thing, the fact that it's one of the final communist governments holding out against Washington. So it remains to be seen what the end goal is rather than just mass chaos. And what the UN and the Pope have raised concerns about being a humanitarian crisis in the country. The expert that I spoke to recently said that people, when they're so desperate, they're less likely to start revolutions and to protest because they're too worried about living day to day to mass mobilize. Especially in a country like Cuba where any kind of dissent is rapidly and strongly crushed. So I suppose one will have to see, I mean, regime change wasn't affected in Venezuela. The same people are still in power, all except Nicolas Maduro and Celia Flores, who are in Brooklyn at the moment. And if they want to do the same Thing in Cuba, they're going to have a lot more to deal with. While they may not have military strength, they have a deeply rooted ideology and a mass humanitarian crisis that will just become the U.S. s problem.
- [21:03]
Dom Nichols
I wouldn't worry about it, Lilly. I'm pretty sure the White House has thought this through for the second, third and fourth order effect if they did anything there. But just before we move on, what was it like as a tourist there in Cuba? Did you feel safe? Was it good place to visit?
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Lily Shanaher
It's the most beautiful, unique country you can go to. I appreciate that people are really suffering there and so I don't want to come across as insensitive. But to go somewhere that is like going back in time, that's the kind of cliched description of the place. The people are amazing, the beaches are the most stunning things that you'll ever go to. And culturally it's so interesting, whether it's people playing dominoes on the streets, salsa music, all the old Spanish style buildings and the streets that you can still walk through is honestly incredible. So it's sad to see what's happening.
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Dom Nichols
Now. We did a deep dive yesterday with Jeremy Wilson, our chief sports reporter, into the Winter Olympics and the issues around Vladislav Haraskiewicz, the Olympic. The skeleton runner. Is that what you call skeleton runner? Anyway?
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Lily Shanaher
Racer.
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Dom Nichols
Racer, That's a better word. So if you do want to have a good listen to all the politics around the International Olympic Committee from Jeremy, who obviously knows a lot more about this stuff than. Than we do and all the implications, it was very interesting chat with him yesterday. So do go and have a listen to Thursday's pod. But Lily, you've got a short update on Mr. Haskerevich. What have you been looking at?
- [22:19]
Lily Shanaher
Yeah, of course, everyone will have seen that he was disqualified at very emotional scenes yesterday and the day prior with his family and with the committee. But he's actually been awarded the Order of Freedom yesterday by Zelensky. Zelinsky said, quote, sport shouldn't mean amnesia. And the Olympic movement should help stop wars, not play into the hands of aggressors. The IOC's decision is certainly not about the principles of olympism, which are founded on fairness and the support of peace. Obviously, the IOC has come under fire for potential hypocrisy for obviously making a political statement when it banned Belarus from Russia back in 2022. And so it's good to see that he's being commemorated. He's received a lot of praise back in Ukraine.
- [23:03]
Dom Nichols
Yes. And judging by our inbox and the messages we receive from our listeners. It's really struck a chord with the international community. Thanks, Lee. And now to our regular segment dedicated to resistance in the occupied territories. Dr. Jay McGlynn is away this week, so Frances sat down with her researcher Ilya Repin to hear a quick summary of recent activities. Well, Ilya, thank you very, very much for your time today and for stepping in for Jade. Where do you want to start in terms of the updates on the occupied territories?
- [23:41]
Ilya Repin
So thank you, Francis. Between 28th of January and 12th of February 2026, Ukrainian resistance forces conducted at least 16 confirmed operations. The majority of them took place throughout the Kherson and Zaporizhzhia region. Across this period we mentioned that the main targets were communications, rail, logistics and fuel or energy infrastructure. These targets matter because modern armies depend on the stable communications and on rail and fuel supply. So the first case we found in Enarhadar. Enerhadar is a part of Zaporizhzhia region. It happened on 28th of January. There was an explosion in cafe that caught Milana. We found several resources that says that for example, the occupying authorities claim that there were some civilian casualties, but other sources report that four fighters from Akhmad were wounded and there was their vacuum was damaged with shrapnel there. And I guess I need to clarify a bit. The Akhmat stands for some special forces and it's informal term of Chechnya based detachments of National Guard of Russia that also known as Rozguat. This name refers to Ahmad Kadyrov, the father of the Ramzan Kadyrov, the current president of Chechen Republic. The next case we found on the Left bank on 30th of January and it's described as mining roads used by Russian troops. It was reported by this rock channel. I guess I don't need to present this rock. We talk a lot about this resistance movement. I guess it's a typical low visibility method, right? It doesn't require the open battle, but it also can slow movement and increase fear among the occupying forces. The next case was in Arbut speed Kherson obligation on 1st of February. The resistance network Atesh, also very well known in this podcast reported disabling communications and electronic warfare and the related equipment on this orbit speed. This location in Kherson oblast is important because it's very close to Crimea and it's used as some kind of corridor for the military movement and occupation control. The reported action focused on infrastructure that supports communication and this electronic warfare in Particular terms, damaging this equipment can reduce local coordination and can weaken defenses against drones. And the last case that we found throughout this period was in Tavrisk district. It's also part of the Kherson area. It happened on 3rd February where the fuel tanker fire was reported. And I mean, fuel is a critical resource for military operation. Right. And when the fuel transport is disrupted by the partisan, it affects the mobility, it affects the resupply schedules and of course the ability to sustain operations, especially in southern regions where the long distance supply lines matter. That is sold from my side is everything that found throughout this period in occupied territories and resistant activities in it.
- [27:24]
Dom Nichols
Thank you, Ilya.
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Adelie Pojm Ponte
And just before you go, I wonder.
- [27:26]
Dom Nichols
If there are any trends that you would pick up or that have happened since the start of this year. Anything that's perhaps a bit unusual or perhaps it's been fairly business as usual. Nothing really has changed. And that's revealing in and of itself.
- [27:42]
Ilya Repin
Right now. I can say that we found something trend during the this period, from the start of this year, because of the block in the telegram, the media, sometimes it became more harder to find right information, to find the proof and the evidence. But from the part of the resistance, I can say that it's changed somehow. We focus right now on how they would perform in future and looking for the new resources and new groups on occupied territories. And I guess that's all.
- [28:21]
Dom Nichols
Thank you. And just because you mentioned the telegram story which we've been reporting on, has there been a major impact of telegram usage being restricted?
- [28:31]
Ilya Repin
Yeah, it totally affects our work. For example, right now I can say that the amount of the actions were reduced, making these reports. And I see this stable amount, it doesn't change right now, it could be affected in the future. And that's why I'm personally interested in founding new ways to collect this public information.
- [28:54]
Dom Nichols
Thank you very much, Ilya, for your time. And of course, we'll return to this subject in a couple of weeks.
- [28:59]
Ilya Repin
Thank you so much, Francis.
- [29:01]
Dom Nichols
Thanks to Ilya and Francis. Let's end the week with a bit of culture. Today, Adelie sits down with Olga Braga, a Ukrainian playwright and director. She's the author of Donbass, currently playing at Theatre 502 in London until the end of February. The play takes place in a town under Russian occupation and explores the nuances of human reactions when faced with the brutality of war. Does one choose safety over rebellion? When does survival become collaboration with the enemy? How does one mourn loss of loved ones, of one's identity? Or of an era long gone. Olga's family drama is both dark and darkly humorous. Here is their conversation.
- [29:41]
Adelie Pojm Ponte
Olga, thank you so much for joining me tonight. It was a pleasure to see the play. It was incredibly powerful. Can you just start by just telling our listeners what the play is about?
- [29:50]
Olga Braga
It's a story of an ordinary Ukrainian family living in Donbas. And we're exploring their lives against the backdrop of the Russian invasion. And we're focusing on everyday life and how they're trying to continue to survive. Sashko comes home from a Russian prison. His father tries to keep him safe, keep him away from the front. Parallel to that, we have a young girl, Nadia. She's the conscience and the keeper of myths in the story because she explores different storytelling things connected to Cossacks together with Sashko. And this also shows us the power of storytelling. And although the play of course deals with war, it also has a lot of elements of humor and levity, which is how people survive. There is jokes about blonde hair color or jokes about Revlon lipstick and these little things like enjoying a Snickers bar. So it really is focusing on how people survive and not only survive, but persevere and overcome difficult times.
- [30:54]
Adelie Pojm Ponte
And also what really strikes me every time I go to Ukraine is war seems this massive big thing, but actually the mundanity of it and the mundanity of everyday life and as you say, wanting to wear lipstick and do your hair and, and play and draw actually belongs as well within the lived experience of war on a day to day basis.
- [31:16]
Olga Braga
Yes, for sure. Trying to latch on to the normality of life when everything around you is not normal and these little things are what survival is about. And recently, for some reason, it really reminds me of what Deroy said in God of Small Things and that idea that these small things are incredibly precious, incredibly precious, especially in time of war, because they give you a sense of hope and possibility of a better future.
- [31:48]
Adelie Pojm Ponte
I'm really interested in one of your characters. He's the father, I think his name is Serhiy, who tells his son that we're all made of different bits of one another. We're like a quilt. And he says that because Sashko says we're pure Ukrainians, when he says, no uk, your great grandmother was a Russian woman who married a Ukrainian. Like none of us are pure. And what I thought was really interesting in the characters that you've chosen in this play is there's also Moldovan girl. You have two young men from the same town, Sashko and Alexei, who've decided to have two entirely different responses to the occupation. Can you tell me a bit more about why you chose to have a Moldovan character who gets trapped and how you chose to have this patchwork, this quilt of character?
- [32:36]
Olga Braga
Yeah, excellent observation and summary from you. It was very intentional because I think war affects not just one type of person. War impacts such a wide range of individuals. And you mentioned, obviously, there's many different characters, different types of characters, and that is really reflective also of the plurality of being. Ukraine is not a monolith, and there are many different identities. And that applies, of course, not just Ukraine, but to continental Europe, Britain. There is a diversity of identities, and that is something that I really wanted to explore in the play. Half of my family continue to live in Ukraine. Half of my family are in Moldova. So I actually also wanted to include a Moldovan character in Ukraine, as well as ethnic Ukrainian characters and different mixes of characters, different ethnicities of characters. That shows us how people are impacted by war. And importantly, you mentioned generations. There are different generations. Younger people may feel one way. And there is an older character of man who is quite an elderly person, and he does have some interesting thoughts on the former Soviet Union. And of course, I am a dramatic. In drama, you need conflict, and there is no conflict unless you have opposing forces. So he's talking about the Soviet Union from one perspective. Vera, another elderly person is talking about the Soviet Union from another perspective. And that was really important for me because ultimately, the breakdown of the Soviet Union impacted many people from very important angle. That transition from a highly centralized to an open market economy was very difficult. And that is something that one of the characters says. The other character, of course, has some different views on the Soviet Union. And that complexity is important because therein lies the truth, therein lies humanity because of that diversity of perspectives. And the other reason why I really wanted to include that is because although the play is about Ukraine and it is set in Ukraine, as James Joyce said, from the specific comes the universal. And my goal, really is to write for audiences across many different borders, to write for audiences maybe in continental Europe, but also in Britain, irrespective of their ethnicities. And hopefully what the play ultimately shows us is that it is focusing on an us versus them mentality and how that can lead to a breakdown of diplomacy. And obviously, in the case of Ukraine, that is war. And we're seeing a lot of that us versus them mentality in Britain, in continental Europe. And I hope that is also something that comes across in the plane. That is another reason why I wanted to include these different types of identities.
- [35:40]
Adelie Pojm Ponte
It's also interesting because that notion of us versus them comes in between the characters on a variety of different topics. So you've got these different relationships to the Soviet Union and the Soviet legacy. The elderly character Ivan, says, we were.
- [35:56]
Lily Shanaher
All brothers back then.
- [35:57]
Adelie Pojm Ponte
And then Viren says, what do you do when your brother starts killing you? And then at the same time, you've got another moment where the us versus them penetrates a relationship which is between Serhi and then Sashko, his son, where Sashko accuses his dad of taking a Russian passport and of collaborating with the Russian occupation forces. And Sashko in all his youthful fervor, which is very necessary, but also can be a little bit binary, as we can all be when we're 20. It's also an us versus them.
- [36:28]
Lily Shanaher
It's a.
- [36:29]
Adelie Pojm Ponte
How do you react in the face of war and brutality?
- [36:32]
Olga Braga
Yeah, how do you react in the face of war and brutality at multiple scales? Because, of course, we're talking about the actual war, but then there is the war within the household. So that domestic conflict was also really important to explore. And this type of us versus them mentality also is seen just between the son and the father. Obviously, there's generational differences there, which is why perhaps Sashko feels one way and he wants to go to the front and his father is. He's not necessarily a bad man. He. He's protecting his son from potential pain. And it's very important because for him, he just wants to preserve his family unit. So I think theater from one perspective, is also about empathy and trying to understand how different people arrive at their conclusions. But just to wrap up the answer about this type of mentality, it also goes to love, because there is a central kind of love story. And it's really important to see how in time of war, we try to latch on and grab this human affection and how it's so difficult to do that.
- [37:45]
Adelie Pojm Ponte
I want to touch upon the depiction of war and the depiction of death, of murder in the play. You've just talked about the importance of conflict in theatre. How did you want to depict war? It's a very realist way of depicting war. What you've chosen to do. How did you get to that?
- [38:01]
Olga Braga
Yeah, it's interesting you mentioned realist, because I have also had some Ukrainian friends come and they mentioned some of. It almost feels like a documentary, and they see what is happening on stage and they feel like they're looking at a conversation with their family. And I've had just Audience members, not even friends, come up to me and say, the conversation between, for example, Sashko and Suryoga is a conversation that they have had as well. But in terms of the depiction of war, we were very careful because we didn't want to have a lot of gratuitous blood on stage. That was very intentional because we just want to be sensitive to the people who come in to see the show. So it's important for us to balance a diverse audience because, of course, there's a lot of British people, but there's also. We've had a lot of Eastern European people, not just from Ukraine. And for us, it was really important not to have blood on characters unless it was really necessary. And we tried to keep it to a minimum. And there is a section in the play that almost changes from magical realism to this kind of hyper abstract, almost like a dance performance with the lighting changes and so on. Dance performance is probably the wrong word to use, but it's this kind of. I don't want to give too much away, but there's certain special effects that we use to convey the war in the kind of abstract way, in the broad way, because we focus on the really specific with the scenes. And then it continues on to more expressionist vision of how war is actually carried out.
- [39:38]
Adelie Pojm Ponte
What do you mean by that, expressionist vision? Just. I know it's a theater term, but it can be a bit abstract.
- [39:44]
Olga Braga
I'm mindful because I don't want to give too much away. There's obviously a lot of certain lighting effects, strobe effects. Also, with our sound design, we were very mindful to ensure we used really authentic sound, actually from Ukraine. But there was also certain other layers on top of it to make sure that what was conveyed was the feeling. Feeling. Because the theater, let's face it, it's an intimate theater, so the space is of a certain size. So when I say expressionistic in the theatrical sense, I mean, we were really focusing on conveying the emotion, what it would be like to feel something. Because at the end of the day, especially if you are, for example, not Ukrainian, usually what you hear about the war comes at a distance. You're reading the headlines. And our goal is really to focus on the human cost of war and to show you how that feels. And usually, maybe sometimes you're scrolling on your phone, you're looking at one headline, moving on to the next headline, it becomes very hard to actually feel what it means to be at war. So when you're in a theater, in a dark room, With a group of other people focusing on what's happening on stage, you can't turn away and you're actually able to see that emotion. But as I said earlier, the play itself has a really interesting balance because we do, like I said, focus on these small pleasures in life, like dumplings, cooking dumplings, eating dumplings, chicken dumplings. And it's really important for us to have those moments of levity as well. And I just wanted to make sure that it's balanced out. We're focusing on l' Oreal superior blonde hair color and how difficult it is to get in a war zone. So these kind of moments are really precious and reaffirmed our humanity, how even in the darkest of times, we strive to retain some sense of levity and normality.
- [41:31]
Adelie Pojm Ponte
We love Vareniki at Ukraine. The latest you've mentioned that you've had, obviously, Eastern European audiences and Ukrainian audiences as well as British audiences, because the play is in London, of course. What have been the different responses? An audience for whom this war is very real and very intimate, and an audience who's further away.
- [41:49]
Olga Braga
Yeah, it's interesting, this proximity and the distance. And obviously Ukrainian people who are currently in London, there is a certain distance for them, too. It was, as I said, very important for us to ensure we approach it with a tactful perspective. And like I said before, many of them have recognized conversations they've had with their own relatives. One person said he was able to understand a certain fight he actually had with his father. He said, stopped speaking to his father. And it was interesting. He said, maybe there was a reason I came in contact with this play, with this piece of writing, because it actually maybe makes me understand my dad a little bit more. And I think that is really powerful. And in terms of British audiences, we have also had really positive responses as well. And the tickets are going really well. So it's been really great, of course, for the theatre and for the team as a whole. Just. It's a positive response.
- [42:50]
Adelie Pojm Ponte
The last thing I want to talk about is the importance of creation and art and theatre for society at a time of war. And you've mentioned something that's really interesting, is the documentary aspect of the play. And a lot of what is being created right now is very documentary. I saw another play, I think it was last June, which was based on testimonies from war crime and investigations, and the play had went further than that. Obviously, it wasn't just like a straight depiction of the testimonies from people who had seen or who had witnessed or Lived through war crimes. I'm interested in your. As a dramatist, the documentary aspect. Is that something that feels necessary? Is that something that is for this moment, as the war is unfolding? And how do you see theatrical production and the representation of the war evolving? Maybe at one point, when the war is a thing of the past, is it too early to say?
- [43:48]
Olga Braga
I think all of us hope that the war will be a thing of the past. Everyone wants peace. But, yeah, I mentioned documentary, but it was just something a few people have said. So I don't think it was our primary intention, because, yes, it is a play about a serious topic, but our goal was also to create a gripping show and an interesting show. There is drama, there is humor. In terms of the narrative structure, I would say it's not too documentarian, because you have to create a certain movement or a certain shape in each scene for it to escalate. So within each scene, you almost have a high emotional point. And then that was really important. But to answer the other part of your question, how important art is and storytelling, incredibly important. Even within this play, we see two characters, Sashkoa and Nadia, try to speak to each other, communicate to each other through storytelling. They play these games and talk about Cossacks on the steppe and how Cossacks defeated the Poles, Tatars, Ottomans, So all these other different groups. Groups. So that shows us that in itself, how storytelling can be a source of strength and resilience for people who are facing such hardship. And at the same time, the storytelling itself, it's not purely superficial or cosmetic in a way, because there is a certain darkness to it at times, because sometimes stories we tell ourselves can also lead us to harm and create pain. So there is a dichotomy to the power of storytelling within the play itself. So that shows us, to answer your question, how important storytelling is to overcome trauma, but also to say things that no other medium can let us say. And in a way, it goes back to what I said earlier about being in a dark room alone with strangers, where you're all reacting to theater and you can't turn away from it, and you. And you're feeling something together as a collective. And that sense of community is really important for us, because theater and storytelling, at the end of the day, is about community. It's about being together.
- [46:01]
Adelie Pojm Ponte
Thank you very much. Are you working on your next project already?
- [46:06]
Olga Braga
Yes, yes, I am. I'm writing a book for a musical, and I'm also working on a screenplay as well.
- [46:13]
Adelie Pojm Ponte
Are they about Ukraine?
- [46:15]
Olga Braga
Actually, no, they are Set in different locations. Yeah, looking forward to it.
- [46:21]
Adelie Pojm Ponte
Looking forward to seeing them on stage as well. Olga, thank you so much for your time.
- [46:25]
Olga Braga
Thank you very much. I'm very grateful for the opportunity that you came to speak to us. We are very grateful. Thank you.
- [46:46]
Dom Nichols
Your new home is now ready. Dr. Horton, America's builder has new homes that are ready today with new construction communities throughout the Puget Sound and Central Washington areas and more coming. Dr. Horton has the right home for you at Dr. Horton. We're still building with more construction, more communities and more homes available every day. Tap your screen now or visit drhorton.com to find your new home. Now ready. Dr. Horton, America's builder and equal housing opportunity builder. Okay, let's go to our final thoughts. I will kick off Rusta Mamerov, who's chair of the National Security and Defence Council of Ukraine, former defence minister as, as well. Well, he says the next round of peace talks are going to take place next week. We had heard whispers of this over the last couple of days, but he says they're going to take place in Geneva, Switzerland, not Miami as had been suggested. Now the meeting is scheduled for two days, Tuesday, Wednesday I think we did know that. But he says that he's going to go along on the Ukrainian delegation. Next to him will be Kirill Badanov, who's the head of President Zelensky's office now. Also Andrei Hinatov, who's the chief of the general staff, David Arachmia, who's head of President Zelenskyy's party faction in parliament and I think the chief negotiator, Serhiy Kisletsiya, who's the deputy foreign minister. And Vadim Skibitsky. I thought that was interesting. First time I've seen Vadim Skibitsky there. He's the deputy chief of Defense intelligence, chap I interviewed in Kyiv a couple years ago actually. But yeah, interesting that he's there. He obviously used to work for or work very closely with with Mr. Budanov. So I wonder if they've got the band back together type thing. Anyway, Russia's delegation is going to be led by presidential aid Vladimir Mendinsky. Now we've not seen Medinsky, whom Ukrainian officials call a pseudo historian. We've not seen him for a few months. He led the delegation for a little while. I haven't seen him for a while. He wasn't in the last few so called ceasefire negotiations. The Kyiv Independent says that his reappearance in negotiations signals a potential hardening of Moscow's staff. Months during the next round, given his history of uncompromising rhetoric in previous rounds of talks. So we shall see, as we've said many, many times over the last few years. But yeah, next week in Geneva, next two days, Tuesday, Wednesday of peace negotiations. Lily, what have you got in terms of final thoughts?
- [49:14]
Lily Shanaher
I'm just going to finish with some pretty good news. Melania Trump has announced that several Ukrainian children abducted to Russia have been returned to their families in Ukraine. This is obviously good news for her too, because she's made it a big item on her agenda as first lady, however, is obviously sadly a drop in the ocean because Ukraine's Children of War database has documented around 20,000 Ukrainian children who have been abducted from Russian occupied territories and taken to Russia or Russian controlled areas. Melania says today marks the third reunification since I've been working strategically with both nations. I have no doubt more progress will come. Just a point of interest. In her full statement she also said that Russian children had been successfully united with their parents too. But as the Kyiv Independent notes, there are no credible reports that suggest Russian children have been abducted by Ukrainians during the war. So it is puzzling what she means by that. And she has not yet elaborated.
- [50:13]
Dom Nichols
Hmm, interesting. Are you, you going to go watch the film, Melania? Squeeze that into your diary.
- [50:20]
Lily Shanaher
I think it's not top of my my list. I'm going to see Wuthering Heights, so perhaps Melania's right at the bottom.
- [50:28]
Dom Nichols
This is the new racy version. Yes, Bosom heaving, sort of breathless.
- [50:35]
Lily Shanaher
All the Bronte purists are rolling their eyes at and in uproar that well.
- [50:39]
Dom Nichols
Francis is not here today. That's all I'm saying. Who knows? Who knows where he is? Thanks, Lily. Ukraine the latest is an original podcast from the Telegraph created by David Knowles to support our work and stay on top of all of our Ukraine news, analysis and dispatches from the ground. Please subscribe to the Telegraph. You can get one month free, then two months for just one pound at www.ukraine. the latest deploying cutting edge technology, we also released Ukrainian and Russian versions of this podcast. These translations retain our voices and delivery so that it can reach listeners in every region of Ukraine and those parts of Eastern Europe where Russian is still widely spoken. Links to those can be found in the podcast description to this episode. You can also now sign up to the New Ukraine, the latest weekly newsletter. Better. Each week Francis and I answer your questions, provide recommended reading and give exclusive analysis and behind the scenes insights plus maps of the front lines and diagrams of weapons to complement our daily reporting. It's free for everyone, including non subscribers. You can find the link to sign up in the descriptions for this episode. We regularly have a Ukraine Life blog on our website where you can follow updates as they come in throughout the day, including insights from regular contributors to this podcast past. We also do the same for other breaking international stories. If you appreciate our work, please consider following Ukraine the latest on your preferred podcast app and leave us a review as it really helps others find the show. Please also share it with those who may not be aware we exist. You can also get in touch directly to ask questions or give comments by emailing ukrainepodelegraph.co.uk we continue to read every message. You can also contact us directly on X. You'll find our handles in the description for this episode. As ever, we're especially interested to hear where you're listening from around the world. Ukraine the latest was today produced by Rachel Porter. Executive producers are Francis Durnley, Louisa Wells and David Knowles.
- [52:46]
Lily Shanaher
My name is David Knowles. Thank you all for listening.
- [52:49]
Dom Nichols
Goodbye. Day or night, VRBoCare is here 247.
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Olga Braga
To help make every part of your stay seamless.
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Dom Nichols
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Lily Shanaher
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Olga Braga
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Dom Nichols
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Olga Braga
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Dom Nichols
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Adelie Pojm Ponte
El Programa Nacional de Vecas a Serde.
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Olga Braga
McDonald's a beneficiado mas de die studiantes.
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Ilya Repin
Con Maz Trentai Cinco milliones de dolares.
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Olga Braga
Esta esmerazione de studiantes que le.
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Dom Nichols
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Olga Braga
Galactic year 6967 420-428-0085 the war for the Spark rages on. Yet one last hope remains. Four ancient warriors are about to take to the stars and take the galaxy by storm.
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Dom Nichols
Hey, so here's what you're gonna do. You're gonna go to HTTPs they added that colon. Yeah, gotta check on that.
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Olga Braga
Oh, don't we all.
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Dom Nichols
I wish I were dead Colon.
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Olga Braga
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Ilya Repin
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Dom Nichols
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