Ukraine ‘scales up offensives’ near Pokrovsk & third round of US-Ukraine-Russia peace talks begin in Geneva

Summary

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Ukraine: The Latest

Episode: Ukraine ‘scales up offensives’ near Pokrovsk & third round of US-Ukraine-Russia peace talks begin in Geneva
Date: February 17, 2026
Host: Francis Durnley, The Telegraph
Guests: Dominic Nichols, Joe Barnes, Nikita Zubenko, Artur Podsoka; Student leaders from the Ukrainian Students Union

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Episode Overview

This episode explores two central themes:

1. The Military and Diplomatic Situation—including the escalation of fighting near Pokrovsk and updates from the trilateral Geneva peace talks between the US, Ukraine, and Russia.
2. The Next Generation of Ukrainians—a special focus on Ukrainian youth voices, their hopes, concerns, and the pivotal role they are seeking (and demanding) in their country's future and in current diplomatic debates.

Journalists on the ground provide real-time analysis, while youth leaders and student organizers share firsthand perspectives on how the war continues to shape their decisions, activism, and vision for Ukraine’s recovery and security.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Military Update: Escalation Before Geneva Talks

• Russian Aerial Attacks:

  • On the eve of the Geneva peace talks, Russia launched a significant aerial assault with missiles and drones across Ukraine.
  • Ukraine’s air defense intercepted the majority: "Amazingly... this resulted in only one death and 25 injured. Ukraine's air defences say they intercepted all of the cruise missiles and 367 of the drones."
    — Dominic Nichols, [03:23]

• Situation in Pokrovsk:

  • Russian forces have "scaled up their offensives north of Pokrovsk," intensifying attempts to encircle key cities, though Ukrainian forces maintain resistance and deny Russia a breakthrough.

• Ukrainian Strikes Inside Russia:

  • Ukrainian drones targeted the Ilsky oil refinery and other sites deep in Russian territory, including Tatarstan—demonstrating Kyiv’s continued capacity to strike at logistical targets.

• Precision Weapons & "Precision" in War:

  • In-depth discussion on the limitations and legal implications of modern weapon accuracy (CEP, circular error probable).
  • Not all “precision strikes” are as clean or discriminate as politicians might hope or claim.
    • Quote: “When we talk about CEP, we’re only talking about 50% of the weapons. A CEP that could be 5 meters—that means that 50% of the weapons will land within that 5 meter radius. The other 50% will land outside it… So think about the collateral damage that is possible.”
      — Dominic Nichols, [09:17]

2. Diplomacy and the Geneva Peace Talks

• Geneva Negotiation Atmosphere:

  • Joe Barnes (on location) describes the scene at the Intercontinental Hotel: Americans and Ukrainians socializing before Russians arrive with “loud sirens, a big motorcade.”
  • Talks are somewhat fluid in schedule and seem to begin with bilateral (US-Ukraine) discussions before trilateral engagement.

• Ukraine's Position:

  • President Zelenskyy calls for "realistic US proposals" and insists on strong, unconditional security guarantees; Russia continues to reject these.
  • Ukrainian diplomatic circles are bracing for “bluster” on the first day, with hope for substantive discussion in subsequent sessions.

• Europe’s Energy and Sanctions Dynamics:

  • Croatia refuses to transport Russian oil to Hungary and Slovakia after a pipeline was damaged in Ukraine, risking broader energy disputes within the EU.
  • Ongoing concerns about the effectiveness of sanctions—Germany and Italy, in particular, are cited for continued trade patterns via Central Asian intermediaries.

• Ukrainian Anti-Corruption Efforts:

  • Former Energy Minister detained leaving Ukraine, as another corruption scandal unfolds.
  • New initiatives: Ukraine’s economic police launch a Telegram bot for citizens to report illegal fuel traders.

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3. Ukrainian Youth Voices: "The Next Generation"

Introduction to Young Ukrainian Leaders

• Nikita Zubenko — Co-founder, Headquarters of Future:

  • A network uniting over 30 Ukrainian youth organizations abroad.
  • Focus: Amplifying pro-Ukrainian sentiment and channeling youthful energy towards support initiatives in host countries.

• Artur Podsoka — Founder, UA Youth UK:

  • Aims to educate the British public about Ukrainian culture/history and foster socio-political engagement amongst Ukrainian youth in the UK.
  • Emphasis on keeping displaced youth connected to Ukraine and preparing them to help rebuild.

The Open Letter and Its Demands

• Ukrainian youth organizations have co-authored and signed a letter to policymakers insisting that:

  • Any peace agreement must not permanently bar Ukraine from NATO membership.
  • European leaders must intensify their diplomatic and security guarantees, beyond current US leadership.
  • Youth voices must be included in negotiation processes.

• Quote: "This is a call from Ukrainian young people to say that we know what's happening, we know what's at stake and we are very certain that this is important for the rest of our lives."
  — Nikita Zubenko, [25:12]

• Quote: “We are the ones who will live in the next generation. We want to be safe, we want to be protected, because we want our generation to be the last one to experience war in Europe.”
  — Artur Podsoka, [26:22]

Mobilization, Political Responsibility, and Agency

• Discussion about controversial proposals to lower the military mobilization age from 25.
  • Many young Ukrainians weigh the imperative to return and serve vs. contributing abroad in specialized fields.
  • Zubenko: The 18-25 “window” is often spent acquiring skills—military, technological, or in defense tech collectives—so they can be more effective when called.
  • Podsoka: If conscripted, “Morally, I don’t have a choice...it would be hypocritical of me to advocate for Ukraine from abroad and refuse to go if called.” ([31:31])

Outlook for Peace and the Future

• Mixed optimism: Most feel that without sustained Western leverage, any Russian promise is unreliable ("they’re likely to pause and return in five years").
• The challenge for youth: Planning a future, whether to build a life abroad or return to rebuild Ukraine, is paralyzed by the war’s uncertain duration.
  • Quote: "It’s very difficult to decide your own future and your relationship with your country when you don’t know what that future looks like."
    — Francis Durnley, [33:41]
  • Podsoka notes legal uncertainty—temporary protections in the UK, limited options for residency—complicates decisions for displaced youth.

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4. Ukrainian Students in Europe: Conference in Cambridge

A special segment features interviews with leaders of Ukrainian student organizations in the UK and France, including:

• Danila Kifrov (Ukrainian Students Union, UK)
• Anna Bazarna (Ukrainian Students in France)
• Diana Shapovich (Cambridge University Ukrainian Society)

Key Takeaways:

• Origins & Growth:

  • Ukrainian student societies flourished after the full-scale invasion, providing cultural, social, and career support for thousands.
  • “At the moment... we have 51 member societies [and] 2,000 current Ukrainian students across 51 universities.”
    — Danila Kifrov, [39:28]

• Aims:

  • Promoting Ukrainian culture and awareness in host countries.
  • Networking and career opportunities—internships in the European Parliament, Council of Europe, partner think tanks.
  • Advocacy: E.g., meetings with UK government re: tuition and visa issues.

• Changing Engagement:

  • “Among students, interest is waning...but academics remain engaged.”
    — Diana Shapovich, [42:35]

• Integration vs. Return:

  • Most want to contribute to Ukraine’s future, but are split—some plan to return, others believe they can serve best as “ambassadors” abroad.
  • Example: Cambridge students working on nuclear deterrence modeling; others focusing on mental health for war-affected children.

• Support Mechanisms:

  • Societies provide vital social support, trauma-processing, and mental health resources—particularly acute as most students have lost someone to the war.

Memorable Quote:

• "Having hope involves having responsibility. Because if you believe that something can be better...then we have the responsibility to act on it and do whatever we can, small or big, to contribute."
  — Diana Shapovich, [53:27]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the murkiness of “precision” in modern warfare

  • “That term of CEP does allow for a lot of outcomes you really wouldn’t want, but it still comes under ‘we used a precision weapon and it functioned as advertised’.”
    — Dominic Nichols, [10:38]

• Youth leadership on NATO and Peace

  • "The prospects of becoming a NATO member is the strongest security guarantee...for any peace deal."
    — Artur Podsoka, [26:12]

• On moral responsibility and conscription

  • “I do have a choice legally, but I don’t have a moral choice because it would be hypocritical of me, you know, if I advocate for Ukraine from abroad.”
    — Artur Podsoka, [31:30]

• On balancing optimism and reality

  • “It’s always important to be optimistic, but also realistic and always keep track of what is going on and don’t dream too much of things which cannot be implemented.”
    — Anna Bazarna, [52:46]

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |:----------|:------------------------------------------------------| | [02:59] | Military update: Russian strikes, Pokrovsk situation | | [08:42] | Legalities & realities of "precision" weapons | | [13:03] | Geneva talks—on the ground update by Joe Barnes | | [22:41] | Youth organizations: missions and impact | | [25:12] | The open letter: youth demands for peace & security | | [27:45] | Young Ukrainians on mobilization and service | | [32:42] | Will there be peace? Youth perspectives | | [38:01] | Cambridge: Ukrainian Student Union interviews | | [46:18] | Do students plan to return or build new lives abroad? | | [50:10] | Student societies’ support for war-affected students | | [52:46] | Hopes and realism for the future |

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Conclusion

This episode captures the tense intersection of ongoing military struggle, elusive peace negotiations, and the urgent, often overlooked, aspirations of Ukraine’s youth.
By centering young voices—with clear, candid discussions on everything from battlefield innovation to trauma, activism, and the complexities of diaspora life—the episode delivers a moving and nuanced perspective on what’s at stake for an entire generation.

Final Thought:
“We are the ones who will live in the next generation. We want our generation to be the last one to experience war in Europe.” — Artur Podsoka, [26:22]

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Transcript

[Francis Durnley]

The telegraph.

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[Francis Durnley]

I'm Francis Durnley and this is Ukraine. The latest. Today we bring you the latest from Geneva, Switzerland where the next round of trilateral peace talks are taking place between the United States, Russia and Ukraine. Are we about to see a breakthrough or is it the same as usual? Meanwhile, as strikes continue on both Ukrainian and Russian territory, we present a special episode focused on the next generation of Ukrainians, their hopes and aspirations and how they view the leaders and political decisions shaping their country's future.

[Nikita Zubenko]

Bravery takes you through the most unimaginable.

[Artur Podsoka]

Hardships to finally reward you with victory.

[Francis Durnley]

Russia does not want Feeschen Werther.

[Artur Podsoka]

If I'm president, I will have that war settled in one day.

[Dominic Nichols]

24 hours. We are with you. Not just today or tomorrow, but for 100 years. Nobody's going to break us. We are strong. We are.

[Artur Podsoka]

Ukraine is.

[Francis Durnley]

It's Tuesday the 17th of February. Three years and 360 days since the full scale invasion began. And today I'm joined by our associate editor of Defence, Dominic Nichols. Our Brussels correspondent, Joe Barnes dialing in live from the peace talks in Geneva. And a plethora of young Ukrainian voices, including representatives from many institutions you'll soon hear about. But first, over to Dom for the latest in the military sphere.

[Dominic Nichols]

Well, thanks Francis. Now, somewhat predictably ahead of the latest round of so called peace talks, Russia has launched its latest mass aerial attack overnight. Four Iskander M ballistic missiles. Four Iskander K cruise missiles, 20 KH101 cruise missiles and 1 x 59 or 69 variant cruise missile along with 396 drones were launched at Ukraine, the air force said today. Now amazingly, and I don't mean to diminish the individual pain, but amazingly this resulted in only one death and 25 injured. Ukraine's air defences say they intercepted all of the Cruise missiles and 367 of the drones. The four ballistic missiles got through and 18 drones got through. The remaining drones just disappeared from radar, so don't know what happened to either went back or piled into the ground but were not brought down by Ukrainian action. Now President Zelenskyy said Odesa has been left without heating and water supply after the strikes overnight hit infrastructure and residential premises there. Three civilians were injured. This comes from Regional Governor Serhiy Lisak. Six civilians were injured in Kherson Oblast as dozens of coastal communities were attacked by Russian drones from the other side of the Dnipro River. The so called drone safari still going on. This comes from the the oblast Governor Oleksandr Prokudin there Foreign Minister Andrei Sibier said the extent to which Russia disregards peace efforts. A massive missile and drone strike against Ukraine right before the next round of talks in Geneva says it speaks for itself. Now on the ground, no significant move, but it's worth noting that Ukraine's 7th Rapid Response Corps says that Russian troops have scaled up their offensives north of Pokrovsk and intensified efforts to try and encircle that city and Nearby Minarad, about 5 k's to the east. Now I raised this. I'm not suggesting that Ukraine holds much of Procrost or Binh Ard at all, but just to highlight that they still do clearly have a military presence there and they've denied Russia the ability to break out and get into the open ground to the north and west, counter to the Kremlin's narrative into Russia. And several regions were hit overnight, including the Ilsky oil refinery in Krasnodar Krai. This is across the Kirch Strait from Occupy Crimea. Pro Russian telegram channel said the area has been under attack by Ukrainian drones since early evening, adding that Russian air defence systems had shot down more than 20 drones across the whole region. Now residents there reported hearing more than 10 explosions in Ilsky and there was a major fire reported at the oil refinery soon after. The three local airports also briefly suspended operations. Now further into Russia and the Republic of Tatastan was also hit. That's about 1300 kilometers east northeast. Actually of Ukraine. Blasts reported there around 3am local time. Explosions were heard on the outskirts of Kazan, after which the electricity supply was disrupted. Also, the city of Nizhnyakamsk was also targeted. No further details about what was hit or the scope of those strikes, but airports across that region also temporarily closed. Now, last week we reported on the Ukrainian flamingo cruise missile attack on Russia's Capistin Yar launch site in Astrakhan Oblast that took place earlier in January. But the news broke last week. Well, Ukrainian General Staff said at the time the strikes had damaged a technical facility that serviced missiles. So missiles, including the nuclear capable Arashnik missile based there, they also damaged an assembly building and a logistics warehouse. Well, yesterday a Ukrainian open source intelligence outfit published satellite imagery which suggested that at least one of the four reported flamingos didn't hit anything of significance. That report of four flamingos came from a Russian mill blogger. So not the best source, but it's the only suggestion we've heard so far about the number of flamingos used in the attack. Anyway, the satellite imagery seems to show a 6 meter crater near the fence of one of the areas inside Kapistin Yar, not near anything of great significance. Now of course the other missiles may have struck more important areas of the site, but I think it's quite interesting that if this open source, this Ozin outlet put out this detail, just question why they didn't also take images of what may have been hit or offered a considered opinion on whether those other strikes hit anything or missed completely. So I'm a little bit skeptical about this news, but I bring it to you because it is out there and you may see reports, you might see the imagery, but it also gives us a chance to look at precision weapons once again. And the issue of cep. Now, the circular error probable, this is how we rate precision of weapons. So a weapon system is given a figure, a CEP. CEP is the radius of a circle within which 50% of the weapons will land. Now, modern weapons have very small CEP because they're very accurate. But I will raise two points. Firstly, in older systems or systems which are being used for purposes for which they weren't originally designed, the CEP is going to be much larger. To give you an idea what I'm talking about, himars has a CEP of 5 meters. That's quite small. Russia's Kinzhal hypersonic missile has a CEP of 10 to 20 meters. Remember, this is radius, so 10 to 20 meters. You know, you're getting quite, quite big now and then the Russian KH22 anti ship missile. So a missile that should be used in the maritime domain, anti ship being used in a ground to ground format. Now, because Russia needs all the missiles it can get because it's being used out of what it was designed for, the CEP is less accurate. Basically the 300. So that's the radius of a circle, 300 meters. So that's pretty massive. So the first point is, the older the weapon system or if it's not being used for what it was designed for, the CEP is going to be.

[Francis Durnley]

Very big because of the level of inaccuracy you've just described there. Are there rules of war, like legal wars, about when you're allowed to use weapons that have that much leeway in terms of where they could strike?

[Dominic Nichols]

Well, you should only be firing weapons against targets which are necessary. An obvious military target. So if you use a cluster munition against an individual soldier, you might say that was disproportionate, but it is a military target. Now if that military soldier was hiding in a school at the time, it would be unwise, you would be legally on, on dodgy ground to use a cluster munition against that target, even though it's a military target in a school. But equally then you have the, the issue of using human shields. Soldiers should not be using civilian infrastructure to hide themselves for their own protection. So there is no set answer. It is a very murky area. But no is the short answer. This comes on to my wider point about precision because the second thing I want to say is when we talk about CEP, we're only talking about 50% of the weapons. A CEP that could be 5 meters, very accurate, or 300 meters, not very accurate. But let's say it's 5 meters. That means that 50% of the weapons will land within that 5 meter radius. The other 50% will land outside it. Now outside it could be 1 meter, could be 2 meters, could be a kilometre. So think about the collateral damage that is possible. And think about the briefing that is given to a politician who doesn't really understand weapons, doesn't really understand war, but is told, don't worry Minister, we're going to be using a precision weapon on this target or we're going to use a missile with a 1 meter CEP. Oh, what's that general? Well, it means that 50% of the weapons are going to land within a metre of the target. Oh, brilliant. Okay, that weapon could still hit a school and then the Minister turns around and goes, what the hell are you guys doing? You told me you're using a precision weapon. Well, you did use a precision weapon, Minister. The weapon came off the rail as it should do. It guided to target accurately. All systems were working. The warhead functioned as it should do. That was a successful precision strike. It just so happened that we killed a busload of nuns and a school. So, you know, this issue of precision is a murky area. So when you hear people talking about we only use precision weapons, we need to know what we're talking about. That term of CEP does allow for behavior or a lot of outcomes that you really wouldn't want, but it still comes under we used a precision weapon and it functioned as advertised. So bit of a sidebar, but just do please bear that one in mind when we're talking about, this is a very precise weapon. Back to the flamingo that I was talking about. That's 6 meter crater inside Kapustin Yar that might not have damaged anything at all. That was probably a perfectly serviceable weapon that functioned as it should do. That was a successful strike. It just happened not to have done any damage to Russia.

[Francis Durnley]

Fascinating. Well, thanks very much, Dom. No nuns were harmed in the recording of this segment.

[Dominic Nichols]

None in fact.

[Francis Durnley]

So don't worry. James Rothwell. None, in fact. Let's go then now to the diplomatic realm. Another day, another summit. In his nightly address yesterday, President Zelenskyy was warning about more oncoming strikes just like those you've described, Dom. As we prepare for next round of peace talks in Geneva, Switzerland, he said, quote, intelligence reports that the Russians are preparing new massive strikes on energy and air defence and they must be configured properly. Russia cannot resist the temptation of the last days of winter cold and wants to inflict painful blows on the Ukrainians. The more of this evil comes from Russia, the harder it will be for everybody to reach any agreements with them. He then said he wants to agree realistic US proposals, including an unconditional long term ceasefire. But the Russia has continued to reject that idea. We expect partners to act so that coercing the aggressor into peace truly works, he said. Now, Oliver Carroll of the Economist quotes a Ukrainian diplomatic source as saying, day one will be loud, there'll be threats, an attempt to scare Europe, but our info is it's all a bluff and that the hope is that on the second day that things will calm down a little bit and more technical details will be discussed. But that's the moment to bring in our Brussels correspondent Joe Barnes in Switzerland, in the very hotel where the peace talks are taking place. So, Joe, I know you're in the foyer at the moment keeping an eye out for who arrives. Where do you want to start on this? What's it like over there?

[Joe Barnes]

Well, let me set the scene a little bit. So I'm in the Intercontinental Hotel in Geneva, famous for hosting peace talks and various talks between Iran, the West, now Ukraine and Russia in this case. I arrived late last night. Most people were in the hotel already. People who are staying here anyway get an early night, make sure that was in and around early. Early this morning. And I went down for breakfast and saw no other than Steve Witkoff, the White House envoy who's in charge of the peace talks. He was having breakfast with Jonathan Powell, the UK's National Security Advisor, which is super fascinating, completely unexpected. I know the Brits are very involved in the talks, but to that level. But was super interesting to see. And they, at various points of their breakfast, while I was squashing croissants and pancakes, they were joined at one point by Jared Kushner, by Army Secretary Jan Driscoll, who was in his workout gear still. And I could sort of hear him sending his apologies as I was loading up a second plate saying, sorry, gents, I can't stay, I've got to go and have a shower. I can't help you much on the inside, the talks at the moment because they've been going on in a closed room and they're still going on as far as I'm aware, but they've been happening on a mezzanine level that sort of overlooks the foyer where I've been sitting. And from time to time, Ukrainian, Russian, American officials will come out and help themselves to sandwiches and coffee, which are on these tables just outside the negotiating room. And it's. Yeah, it's super interesting to see. One interesting nugget is we were cleared out of the foyer for a brief period when I believe the Russian delegation arrived. We were put in the hotel bar, Le nations, and at that point they shut the shutters. We couldn't see who was coming in and out, but all I saw was a lot of loud sirens, a big motorcade, but, yeah, unaware of who that was. But I believe it was the Russians arriving.

[Francis Durnley]

Well, thanks very much, Joe, and of course, we'll have you on the podcast again tomorrow, ideally to fill us in on what's been happening over the next 24 hour period. But one final question from you before you go is what kind of time blocks are these negotiations taking place? And There seems to be some confusion about exactly when they start, when they end, and therefore when we might expect any comments to come out of the delegations.

[Joe Barnes]

Yeah, so I think it's pretty fluid. They were billed to start about 11am local times 10 o' clock in the UK this morning. The Ukrainians were there and I saw Rustem Umarov having a coffee and speaking to some of his colleagues. On this bezine level is the Ukrainian chief negotiator, the head of the National Security Council. So they were there on time. The Americans were there. They were floating around the hotel from sort of 8 o', clock, 7 o' clock onwards. Presume they're staying here. The Russians may have come about an hour and a half, two hours after the talks have begun. So that sort of signals that maybe the format was let's, let's get the Americans and the Ukrainians together. Let's, let's speak and then they'll come back and then they can start the trilateral talks.

[Dominic Nichols]

Joe. Hello, mate. Glad to hear that you're still on the, on the croissants and the, and the fruit juice. Not the, not the full English. Jonathan Powell. Interesting, interesting. Who was he chatting to after? Steve Witkoff or did you did. Was he working the tables or was it just Witkoff? And do you know which room they've booked out for these negotiations? Because it might be an interesting journalistic exercise for somebody to ring to see if it's been blocked out for. What's today? Tuesday. So Tuesday, Wednesday, if it's been blocked out for Thursday or Friday.

[Joe Barnes]

Yes. Jonathan Powell. I haven't actually seen him speaking to anyone else, but I presume he's had meetings with the Ukrainians, who I've not actually seen in the lobby level. So I presume they were keeping their own council in their rooms or had a separate space set up so they could keep talking in private. Power has been quite visible. It's just in the, in the conference center, which is known to host various events. It's on level one, it's very publicly addressed. So, yeah, I think we could be able to ask, maybe as I leave, can the Telegraph host its February party in the Intercontinental Geneva after Wednesday?

[Francis Durnley]

Well, Joe, thanks very, very much for your time and we'll, as I say, try and have you on the podcast tomorrow if time allows and you're not busy writing up what's happened in, in the next negotiations. But all the best to you, Joe, and thanks again. Now, just a few other quick bits of diplomatic news before we go to our other Guests, lots of economic stories at the moment. Croatia has refused to transport Russian oil to Hungary and Slovakia. Quite an interesting intervention this. So for context, oil flows to Hungary and Slovakia via Russia's Druzhba pipeline have been halted after a Russian airstrike damaged the conduit on Ukrainian territory. Something that Dom has spoken about before. That has left Hungary and Slovakia scrambling around trying to find alternative routes for that Russian crude, despite Brussels ban on seaborne imports. But basically Croatia has said that they are not going to allow the transportation of Russian oil via their territory. So this is potentially a little bit of a diplomatic row that is brewing. They've said, and I quote, we will not allow Central Europe's fuel supply to be endangered. But interestingly, if you read that, it could be read as them saying we'll will also try and find a solution for Hungary and for Europe. That means that there's no risk to energy flows because of what has happened in Ukraine. So potentially deliberate diplomatic wording there. But obviously it is significant that Croatia has said, no, we're not going to do this at the request of Hungary and Slovakia. Just while we're on the subject of third party countries, as it were, it's been an ongoing theme over the years for us looking at sanctions of Asians via other countries. Not possible for many countries, many businesses to be selling directly to Russia. So they might, might sell by a third party country somewhere in the Middle east or Kyrgyzstan or Kazakhstan, and then those buyers, those sellers sell that on to Russia. And that has involved all sorts of different electronic components and other aspects that are vital, particularly for drone construction. Robin J. Brooks, senior Fellow at the Brookings Institution, has posted some graphs on his substack showing transshipments to Russia via Kyrgyzstan in particular. And what's interesting about this is that Poland and Lithuania have shown themselves to be very successful in weaning themselves off from these shipments, but other countries, particularly Germany and Italy, have not. The question, of course, is why now? Perhaps this is part of just people, governments not really realizing the degree of this. That seems very unlikely. Or it might just be them turning a blind eye. But nonetheless, it's interesting that certain countries in Europe have very successfully managed to wind this down and I think the UK actually is one of them as well. I remember reporting on Kyrgyzstan before and I think there has been a reduction from the UK too. But other countries, it's rampant. And obviously the problem is that as soon as you've got one leaky country, as it were, all of the business that's stopped by other Countries can just go in via that other country and obviously Germany, economic heart of Europe. In many ways it's major, major story that we'll obviously continue to monitor it, but I thought it was worth mentioning and I'll include that in the show. Notes to the episode that interesting substack post back to energy though. Herman Helushenko, former Energy Minister of Ukraine. Of course he was detained this week while attempting to flee the country or certainly leave the but many people are interpreting this as him trying to flee it. He was the one forced out of his role last year after being named in the corruption scandal that we spoke about so often. He was reportedly apprehended while on a train leaving Ukraine. Well, there aren't very many trains that leave Ukraine, so it's probably the one that we're familiar with. Dom, I hope he had a nicer berth than we did when I was munching those crisps. But anyway, others were able to escape, of course, many, many months ago that were implicated in the corruption scandal. And just lastly, a smaller story, but enlightening. As reported in the Kyiv Independent, Ukraine's economic law enforcement AGENC has launched an online bot to help bust illegal gasoline traders. So to quote our friends at the paper, members of the public, business people and journalists will be able to upload information about dodgy dealings into the fuel market and to a chatbot called Stop Shadowbot on the popular messaging app Telegram. Detectives from the Economic Security Bureau will use the tips as a starting point for investigations. Now, just for background, the illicit fuel market is a growing problem in Ukraine. We have touched on it before and IT detectives have been trying to seize fuel and equipment worth over $5.8 million from illegal circulation last year, three times more than in 2024. But don't know if you've got any thoughts on that. Dom, have you ever pinched any petrol from a helicopter to use on your lawnmower?

[Dominic Nichols]

I mean, we were able to use four Star, the old four Star proper leaded petrol in our helicopters. In an emergency it would burn hotter and therefore degrade the the engine. But you know, it was a practice story, a taught, recognized, you know, technique. If it all goes to rats and you've run out of, you know, your Avtor aviation turbine fuel, you could just pitch up to your local BP garage and fill it up with 4 star. I don't know if it'll work with unleaded. I never did it. The only time I've ever landed next to a BP station was because my mate wanted to nip out and get some facts. But that's another story.

[Francis Durnley]

Story for another day everyone. But let's turn now to the main subject of today's episode, and that is the next generation of Ukrainians. We're joined today by Nikita Zubenko, co founder of headquarters of future, and Artur Podsoka, founder of UA uk. Thank you both very much for your time. We're going to hear shortly about an open letter you and many others have signed urging diplomats to ensure that a safe and secure future for young people across Ukraine and the wider continent is at the heart of the negotiations taking place at the moment. But first of all, I'd just like to hear a bit about your organization. So Nikita, perhaps you could tell us about headquarters of future.

[Nikita Zubenko]

Yes, thank you so much. Basically our organization is a youth led initiative in which we are trying to unite and coordinate Ukrainian groups of young people abroad, mainly in Europe and in the wider North Atlantic region. Currently we have more than 30 organizations of Ukrainian youth abroad, including Arturs Initiative. We are basically trying to capacitate them and to utilize their efforts into any kind of initiatives that might prolong, enlarge pro Ukrainian sentiment in their own countries and allow them to better produce projects for Ukrainians in their host countries.

[Francis Durnley]

Thank you very much Digita for that overview. And Artur, perhaps you could tell us about UA Youth.

[Artur Podsoka]

Yeah, absolutely. So UI Youth is a Ukrainian youth organization here in the UK. We were founded in 2024. We have two goals. So basically the first one is the education of British and not only British public about Ukrainian culture, history and political affairs. Because this issue is and those topics are not being covered widely enough in the media. Well, your podcast is basically the biggest outliner in the media for those spins. But still we want to popularize it among young audiences all around uk. And the second aim, we work closely with Ukrainian youth and we create socio political discourse for them because we believe that every Ukrainian as soon as the war finishes or even earlier, should contribute to the rebuilding of Ukraine, whether by being in Ukraine or by doing something abroad and actually contributing to Ukraine's rebuilding, rebirth of the nation, if we can say so. And so we are creating social political discourse. So Ukrainians who live abroad right now, especially like Ukrainians who were displayed who are displaced since 2022, they do not lose the connection not only with Ukraine and its culture, but only with the events that are happening in Ukraine.

[Francis Durnley]

Thank you. Now listeners will recall the documentary Facing War following the former NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg and features several excerpts actually from the podcast to give historical context to particular moments during his tenure. And inspired by that film, you've signed an open letter with Rebirth Ukraine calling for leadership that will reject any peace deal clause permanently blocking Ukraine from NATO membership and will intensify coordinated diplomacy to end the war, particularly among Europeans. Given that it's the US steering things at the moment, Nikita, why do you think that that is so important? Why have you signed this?

[Nikita Zubenko]

Well, I think to begin with, it's important to understand that Ukraine is not an object of defence but a vital part of security in Europe by US and Ukrainian military possessing the cutting edge knowledge. It's very much important for the whole security ecosystem in Europe to include Ukraine as a part of that puzzle. US signing that basically showed that we as a generation that's going to bear the most brunt, basically bear the brunt of the recovery efforts and any kind of unfavorable peace deal. We wanted to highlight and to focus the diplomatical effort on the needs and responsibilities that that might bring in terms of any kind of security talks in Europe, dealing with Russia or any other further threat. So this is a call from Ukrainian young people to say that we know what's happening, we know what's at stake and we are very certain that this is important for the rest of our lives.

[Artur Podsoka]

And I believe, I mean Nikita has opened everything about the letter, but I also believe that it's really crucial to add that youth are the people who will believe in Ukraine and will believe in Europe because let's be honest, if Ukraine falls, Europe will fall as well because Putin is not going to suffer easily just on Ukraine. And so this is why it is crucial to support Ukraine and for any peace deal. Obviously Ukraine wants peace, but Ukrainians want just peace. While for example, Trump administration, they want peace as well, but they want like peace at any price, you know, well, we want a just peace and for just peace we need some security guarantees. The prospects of becoming a NATO member is the strongest security guarantee that, that Ukraine or any other European states can get to defend itself from Russia. This is why it is really crucial to show that Ukrainian and European youth voices really matter because we are the ones who will live in the next world, we are the ones who will live in the next generation. And we want to be safe, we want to be protected because we want our generation to be the last one to experience war in Europe. And this is why it is really important to listen to youth, not only to Ukraine, but to the global youth as well. And to actually what we want and what we say. And I believe that Youth should be implemented more in the decision making processes. And so this is why this open letter, which was co authored by UIU's Rebirth Ukraine and supported by Finka Film Impact Production, is really important because it unites youth all over the world and it shows that it puts youth into some sort of diplomatic discussion. And so we really hope to have this letter as an open call to the diplomats to actually listen to young people want and to to think about their strategies.

[Dominic Nichols]

Hi guys, Dom here. Thanks for joining us today. Could I ask, probably a bit personal, I don't mean to be too personal, don't mean to be rude, but can you talk to us about your feelings on the relative merits of President Zelenskyy and the political class not pushing to reduce the mobilization age from 25 to get your generation into military service in Ukraine and, and where you feel your efforts would be best placed, rallying political support outside the country or encouraging your generation to go back to Ukraine to fight for the future that you've just outlined.

[Artur Podsoka]

So clearly, if Nikita is not against, I think I can answer, start answering. Because I've been living in the UK since 2021, so before the war began and I can say that, well, I do not think that President Zelenskyy is doing something wrong in this situation because let's be real here, realistic, Russia has two or three times bigger population than Ukraine and they're prevailing in manpower. That's true. And Ukraine needs people. So Western armies, they do not want to fight for Ukraine. And this is obvious because if there is like Western troops in Ukraine, like Probably World War 3 will start super shortly. And basically Ukraine needs people. And this way this mobilization is happening. And for me personally, in April there was like this law that was introduced that Ukrainians abroad should go and stand on this military list. I went to the Ukrainian consulate in Notting Hill. I've done it. I have like my old military documents sorted. And for me, if the country calls me to go there, well, do I have another choice? No. But I will have to defend my country and it's not like someone will drag me there. I will go there where it's better to be. Well, I think it depends case by case because I can talk about for example my case. I'm doing like, I've done my BA at UCL at Cease in Politics of Eastern Europe. Now I'm doing MA at kcl. I'm doing war studies studies and then I will do a PhD about the weaponization of Russian Orthodox Church in Ukraine by provoking like this Discussion by making myself smarter. Realistically saying like this, I think I can help much better in terms of some strategy plan or something like this, or like political information planning. And to be fair, if we talk about mobilization in Ukraine, like usually if you have like a degree or you are like a specialist, let's say in communications, you will not be sent directly to the frontline, you will be like in a brigade and you will be doing this, you will be working like political communicator or like strategists or something like that. And so I believe that I can be most helpful to Ukraine in this way and this way. For example, uius we launched our think tank. It's super small right now, but we are trying to provoke the political thought.

[Nikita Zubenko]

Yeah. And also not to prolong this particular question, but to support artist position. A lot of my friends are utilizing this time that they have until 25 for example, to to train themselves in any kind of skill that might be useful in the army. There is a lot of courses now available to any kind of citizen in Ukraine who for example can try himself in drone warfare, trying himself in understanding how the cutting edge technology works. At the same time, another group of my friends, they have started a defense tech collective that's basically promoting and allowing for more effective fundraise and technological development for new arms that are then being transferred and bought into the armed forces of Ukraine. This time basically from, from 18 to 25 allows citizens, young citizens to basically realign themselves and to find their positions in the future when they are going to be drafted.

[Dominic Nichols]

Thanks guys. And just finish off. So you said you're 22 at the moment. If the mobilization age was lowered, let's say to 23 or 24, would you go back?

[Artur Podsoka]

Well, if I'm conscripted then yeah. Do I have another choice? Like come on, we are fighting for democracy. We are fighting to be a lawful European country. I do have a choice legally, but I don't have a moral choice because it would be hypercritical of me, you know, if I advocate for Ukraine from abroad. Right. I advocate that Ukraine should be a European country that follows the laws, that follows the norms. If I do it, if I advocate it and then I'm being conscripted, what should I do? Should I just say like, oh, like everything what I state, that's what I believe in, should just vanish and disappear and I should go into hiding or I don't know, or find some job in London and stay here? I think it will be super hypercritical of me.

[Francis Durnley]

Thank you. Gents, very much for your time and your candid responses to questions that are often being asked. And it's great to hear your responses to them. Going back to the political realm, are you optimistic that we will see some kind of ceasefire or even peace this year? Or do you think that the leaders in Europe particularly have put themselves in a position where this war is going to drag on for considerably longer? What's your instinct?

[Nikita Zubenko]

I think important here, for example, having in mind the Geneva talks that are happening at this point in time, as soon as we got the news that Geneva talk started, we received an arachnic threat in Kiev and whole Ukraine. That threat thankfully didn't materialize. But it's very clear to everyone living in Ukraine the true intentions of Russians when they are going to negotiate. So I think the main question that should be answered is whether Ukraine and the collective west, however fragmented it may be at this point in time, is able to put enough pressure on the Russians to actually force them to sign any kind of peace agreement that would uphold Ukrainian security guarantees that would uphold and make sure that this war is not going to reignite in five years, for example, because this is a very plausible scenario when you're dealing with the Russian, that they're going to just sign a sort of peace deal, impose some restrictions on Ukraine and then come back in five years and finish the job.

[Francis Durnley]

The reason I asked that question, Arta, before we hear your response is of course this has big ramifications for young people because your trying to decide your own future and it's very difficult to decide your own future and your relationship with your country when you don't know what that future looks like. So I wonder if you could just speak to that in your reply.

[Artur Podsoka]

Yes, absolutely. And you know about the future actually coming back to my previous response, so you know, like Ukrainians are being protected in Europe and in the UK by temporary protection. For example, Ukrainian visa in the UK doesn't lead to ilr. And so realistically it's very hard to talk about about future of Ukrainian youth even like in Europe, because as you mentioned, like you're saying that I have a choice, but well, I'm not sure whether I have a choice because my residency here can just finish. And you know, we don't know who will be the frontrunner of the 2029 general election, let's be fair. And what the immigration policies will be are obviously we all hope that the war would finish as soon as possible. We hope for it and so obviously want some just peace. We want some justice for us. But at the same time, let's be frank. If Russia wanted to finish this war, they would have signed the agreements many, many days, weeks and months before. Or simply they wouldn't have invaded Ukraine in 2014 and 2022 if they really wanted this war to finish. Because even right now, if you look at the Russian delegation and the negotiation, they sent Medinsky right now and Mitzinsky as it has been proven he doesn't have any any actual power and authority in Russia. So those talks while USA are saying Witskov European countries sends many of the national security advisors. Ukraine has sent Budhana and mirror Russia is sending Medinsky. Russia is showing that they don't want peace and this is the main problem.

[Francis Durnley]

Well gents, thanks very very much for your time today. And of course in the show notes we'll have links to all of your organizations and to that open letter. Thank you both.

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[Francis Durnley]

Continuing with this theme, you're going to hear now a short interview I did several weeks ago in Cambridge at a special conference bringing together Ukrainian university students studying in Britain under the umbrella of the Ukrainian Students Union, an organization we'll also link to in the show notes. I spoke to three of them. Okay, so first of all, if you could just say your names and your roles and also where in Ukraine you're from.

[Danila Kifrov]

Dana Loni Kifrov, Founder of the Ukrainian Students Union. I'm from Bucha, Kyiv.

[Anna Bazarna]

Anna Bazarna, I'm the president of the association des Institution Ukrainian France association of the Ukrainian Students in France and I'm from Kyiv region.

[Diana Shapovich]

My name is Diana Shapovich. I'm the president of Cambridge University Ukrainian Society and I'm from Donetsk region.

[Francis Durnley]

Wonderful. Well, let's start off with you, Danilo, and you're running the umbrella organization here in Britain of Ukrainian university students. How did that come about and what is its core purpose?

[Danila Kifrov]

Thank you for having us, Francis. Delighted to tell you more. So we set it up originally a few months just before the full scale invasion in 2022. So it was, I do believe, in November. We started for the sake of making our lives easier by doing joint events, having more people in attendance and perhaps sharing ideas between the committees and the presidents. And then the war started, obviously, the full scale invasion. We launched a fundraiser between six university societies and apparently it went quite viral. So we collected about £40,000. Boris Johnson has noticed the prime minister at the time, so he issued like a letter of support, an endorsement for our organization. The embassy also noticed our action and since then more societies. The Ukrainian students also started joining in. And at the moment, as of today, 9th of November 2025, we have 51 member society. It's about, I believe, 2,000 current Ukrainian students across 51 universities we have 1,000 alumni for whom we created a separate platform and we have also our partners from France. I do believe it's another 2,000 students. We'll talk about that as well. So for them we aim to provide both cultural enriching experiences which are useful both for the Ukrainians and, well, the international students. We host quite a few events on political discussion, economy, cultural, like for instance, President Zelenskyy himself has addressed quite a few universities at the same time. First Lady Zelenskyy attended former President Poroshenko, former President Yushchenko, obviously the ambassador, Ambassador Zaluzhny himself recently spoke to us too. And in fact today he also recorded a message. But we don't only do the events, we also try to boost career opportunities. We have internship and mentorship schemes in the private and public sectors. Our flagship program is in a public sector. We do internship in the European Parliament and Council of Europe, Italian Senate. We are negotiating positions with think tanks, U.S. senate, hopefully this year and in private sector, for those who are interested in business, that will be Deloitte, IBM. We conducted quite a few schemes with them just to make sure that the Ukrainians here can integrate and are better equipped to deal with the Korea's market. And finally, we also act to represent our members by uniting all of them. We have more leverage, we have more power, we can be heard better. Like in the case with the tuition fees. We were called in to the Downing Street a number of times and we were able to advise, particularly in relation to Ukrainian students here. And obviously the Ukrainian government also know about our initiative and in cases where they can support us, they can. But we are fully independent organization. This is our motto. This is our objective, to stay independent from the government, however cooperating, or when they can support us, or we can, let's say, have their speakers, for instance, or help our Ukrainians. We would be delighted to do so.

[Francis Durnley]

And Diana, you steer the Ukrainian students here at Cambridge, where the event today is being hosted. We've heard about the overarching objective of the umbrella organization, but what's it been like on. On the level of one university? And what kind of network is provided and what value of the society is there for Ukrainian students?

[Diana Shapovich]

I think that the biggest value that we provide as a society is social support. We try to unite the current students with our alumni and provide a platform for networking, establishing connections, career support, etc. But it's also a platform for, you know, Ukrainian culture, Ukrainian politics. We try to galvanize the people. We try to keep, keep Ukraine in the academic and, you know, media, public eye. So that's another very big point for us.

[Francis Durnley]

And have you felt that over the past three years, interest in Ukraine has increased or waned?

[Diana Shapovich]

I think it's a really tricky question because it depends on which target audience are we talking about. I can feel that, for example, among the students, the interest is waning. And I mean international students, unfortunately, we see a lower number of international students attending our events, but at the same time, talking about academics, we can see the continued engagement, we can see the continued response to attend our events and act as speakers or as moderators. So it's a very interesting divide. What can I say?

[Francis Durnley]

Let's hop across the channel then to France. Does what. What you've just heard resonate with the experience in France, or how did things come about there in terms of the umbrella organization that you run?

[Anna Bazarna]

Okay, so this organization of the Ukrainian students, it's an old, new organization. It exists for more than 15 years, but there were ups and downs when it was more active, in 2014, recent years, it wasn't that active. And right now we are rebuilding from the scratch. The stick structure, their organization. And Nowadays there are 52 organizations, associations in France of the youth and students and overall Ukrainians. And we're trying to unite everyone and to help them to be aware of what are the issues of the students, of the youth, how can we help them? And to also decentralize the. There is this issue of centralization, that everything is happening in Paris because it's the capital. And sometimes, sometimes students from other regions and other cities, they're not hurt and they don't have the same opportunities. And so this is our strategic goals for the upcoming months, because it's been four or three months since we worked together. And yes, overall, to show the Ukrainian culture, Ukrainian artists in Paris, to really spread the view on everything, like everything going on in France with the youth, Ukrainian youth, to show us and to make French people also aware of our literature, of our history. There is a very beautiful gallery right now and exhibition in Paris by Ukrainian artist who came from Ukraine and now he went back, Nikita Kadan. And I think French people, Parisians, sometimes, very often they're not that aware because. Because it is true that right now the popularity and overall Ukrainian question is not that popular in France. We have a lot of happening with the politics right now internally. So this is the first question. Secondly, there are also other wars in the world and other issues, and the focus on Ukraine is not that intense as it was before, maybe. But overall, I think that Right now there is maybe a second wave of Ukrainians being active again, because I see that all of the events and different film, demonstrations, museums, they're back full of Ukrainians. They're back to be active because I think maybe recent year, like last year, it wasn't that active.

[Dominic Nichols]

Yeah.

[Francis Durnley]

In one of the sessions that we've just heard, one of the students stood up and said they're studying architecture because they want to be involved in the reconstruction, destruction of Ukraine. And that gets the core of what I'd like to discuss with the three of you, which is do you get a sense that the majority of Ukrainian students who are in Britain or in France or around Europe are thinking in terms of their degrees and wanting to go back after the war, or do you feel that it's a 50, 50 split between people who want to make new routes in the countries that they've moved to to study? Danlo, you want to go first?

[Danila Kifrov]

Well, it's a sort of complicated question, although there is a short answer. I do believe everyone wants to contribute to the future of Ukraine. However, the question is if they want to do it from the abroad or in Ukraine. Our organization, namely the Ukrainian Students Union, our stance is that the Ukrainian students are free to choose where they want to be useful. Obviously, as one of the high profile politicians I had an honor to speak to a while ago, but I'll remain chapter house rules on this one. 1 He said if they can be useful, let's say in London or in Europe as a, I don't know, director of JP Morgan or becoming like an analyst at a central bank or maybe becoming a top tier lawyer because.

[Francis Durnley]

Or a journalist.

[Danila Kifrov]

Oh, I was gonna say a journalist.

[Dominic Nichols]

Or a journalist, yeah.

[Danila Kifrov]

Due to the connections they received from, let's say top tier universities from, you know, the Western education, but also the French friends who they made here from all over the world, they could be much better, the ambassadors, as we call, of Ukrainian culture or Ukrainian, let's say, influence and in this way support Ukraine more than as if they just went straight back home. Although we do have quite a few students who already returned back home and are working for either international organizations or for the government or just pursuing business ventures. So I don't think think it's the question where the students want to stay or leave. It's more about them kind of continuous, supporting Ukraine in any way they can. And at the moment they are in currently.

[Francis Durnley]

Do you agree with that, Tyen?

[Diana Shapovich]

Yes, overall I think I do agree with Danila here. I think a lot of people are going to take on some ambassador roles in different industries. But I also think that a lot of people here in Cambridge are thinking how their research, their studies can contribute directly to rebuilding and supporting Ukraine. And I can give you just, let's say two examples. So one member of our committee is working in the field of nuclear engineering and she is planning of nuclear deterrence for Ukraine. So not sure if you can use it, but yeah.

[Francis Durnley]

I presume she's not doing it in the lab already here.

[Diana Shapovich]

So that's kind of the planning that's going here in Cambridge. But on the other side, for example, my sister is looking more into the psychology field and working with children who were affected by the war and how we can work with the intergenerational trauma that is visible right now in Ukraine.

[Francis Durnley]

And how about in France?

[Anna Bazarna]

So I think there is also the difference between France and the UK is that first you have to speak French in France. France. And I think French language is not that popular in Ukraine as English is. And I know that there are maybe a bit more students who are willing to either move somewhere else in Europe after their studies in France or go back to Ukraine. But yes, I totally agree with what Danila said and about being useful from abroad because there are a lot of banks and also, for example, like just me, I work in finance. And for example, I had interviews for the, the sovereign advisory departments in the French boutiques which are specialized in debt restructuring in Ukraine. So I think this is mostly about people, how they are willing to help Ukraine. And it is not the question from where they can do that, it's more about what they want to do.

[Francis Durnley]

And I imagine that all of the organizations that you're involved in, another big part of them is the support that they provide for Ukrainian students who of course must in many instances have family who are still in Ukraine or indeed have their own trauma to deal with from having to leave in many circumstances when the full scale invasion began. I wonder if one of you can speak to that and perhaps give some examples of people who've been helped and supported by the work that you've done and the communities you've built.

[Diana Shapovich]

Yeah, I mean, I suppose for us it's a bit easier to talk about this because we are a society who is directly uniting students on the physical level level. So basically, I think just generally getting together, talking about what someone is experiencing really helps for students. Can you give you any direct examples? I think for each of us it's individual, it's whether just getting involved with a meme quiz and relaxing, taking your mind off or coming to our, you know, weekly protest and giving a speech on a topic that you feel passionate about, passionate about, that you want to promote to the people. So through these different ways of getting involvement, you find your own methods of living with the trauma, experiencing it and, you know, having this social support, if I may add.

[Danila Kifrov]

Actually institutional wise, we also aim to support all the students, but obviously our responsibilities. So we have to make sure that we're covering the whole ground of 20, 20 students. So at some point we did partner up with a mental health to believe it's a startup or a company, but it was very effective in terms of providing face to face kind of engagements with for the Ukrainian students, I do believe by Ukrainian professionals, but based in London or it was some psychology trained experts in the field. And we managed to secure a deal with them based on the referral, obviously. But I do believe at least one or two sessions were free to every new Ukrainian CPU students who joined across the whole 2000. I'm not saying that 2000 students used it, but don't remember the exact number, but at least 100 I do believe was sessions taken. We obviously also do occasional workshops. Since the war has been going on for four years, it seems like the societies on site are more aware about how to deal. They have internal protocols or how basically procedures, how they deal with the trauma. But initially we were doing workshops on this. We will be inviting professionals from the mental health to deal with that. Obviously a lot of students, quite a few of them have, if not everyone has lost someone and it's just a big trauma in addition to the exams, in addition to normal student activities.

[Francis Durnley]

So yeah, you are the future of Ukraine and you represent the future of Ukraine. Are you optimistic about that future at the present moment or does this still feel like a very, very dark time and it's hard to think about what might come after the war.

[Anna Bazarna]

I think it's always important to be optimistic, but also realistic and always keep track of what is going on and don't dream too much of things which cannot be implemented right now, but can be implemented to the future future, for example. So yes, I think right now it's even not about like being optimistic more, but to work hard and to work first of all for our future. It's important that all of us Ukrainians like students, young people abroad, we could succeed in our lives to help succeed our country. So I think this is important.

[Artur Podsoka]

Diana?

[Diana Shapovich]

Yes, I think this is a very topical, you know, point and for me, I recently had a conversation with my best friend about this because at some point I got into the spiral of thinking that whatever that we are doing has no effect, you know, it's worthless. And then my friend shared this thought with me that having hope involves having responsibility. Because if you believe that something can be better, that you know, we can have a better future, that Ukraine can survive and resist, then we have the responsibility to act on it and do whatever we can, like small or big, to contribute to that.

[Danila Kifrov]

Well, I do agree that yes, we are the future, but I don't think the saying is completely correct in terms of terms of being right here, right now, because it kind of transfers our responsibilities, the opportunities to have hands kind of further into the future. Because what is future? We are here right now, we are doing the things that we have to do and that's why we are focusing on the exact moment we are in. Because yes, we are the future, but nobody knows what the future holds while here, you know, a second pass, this is already the future. So that allows us to, instead of delaying the responsibility or transferring our fate into the hands of somebody else, actually doing what we can do best right now in this situation. So yes, I agree.

[Francis Durnley]

Thank you all very much.

[Danila Kifrov]

Thank you.

[Anna Bazarna]

Thank you.

[Francis Durnley]

Ukraine the Latest is an original podcast from the Telegraph created by David Knowles to support our work and stay on top of all of our Ukraine news, analysis and dispatches from the ground. Please subscribe to the Telegraph. You can get one month free, then two months for just one pound at www.telegraph.co.uk UkraineTest deploying cutting edge technology, we also release Ukrainian and Russian versions of this podcast. These translations retain our voices and delivery so that it can reach listeners in every region of Ukraine and those parts of Eastern Europe where Russian is still widely spoken. Links to those can be found in the podcast description to this episode. You can also now sign up to the New Ukraine, the latest weekly newsletter. Each week Dom Nichols and I answer your questions, provide recommended reading and give exclusive analysis and behind the scenes insights plus maps of the front lines and diagrams of weapons to complement our daily reporting. It's free for everyone including non subscribers. You can find the link to sign up in the descriptions for this episode. We regularly have a Ukraine Live blog on our website where you can follow updates as they come in throughout the day, including insights from regular contributors to this podcast. We also do the same for other breaking international stories. If you appreciate our work, please consider following Ukraine the latest on your preferred podcast app and leave us a review you as it really helps others find the show, please also share it with those who may not be aware we exist. You can also get in touch directly to ask questions or give comments by emailing ukrainepodelegraph.co.uk we continue to read every message. You can also contact us directly on X. You'll find our handles in the description for this episode. As ever, we're especially interested in interested to hear where you're listening from around the world. Ukraine. The latest was today produced by Phil Atkins. Executive producers are Francis Durnley, Louisa Wells and David Knowles.

[Artur Podsoka]

My name is David Knowles.

[Dominic Nichols]

Thank you all for listening.

[Joe Barnes]

Goodbye.

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[Anna Bazarna]

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