Michael Uslan: The True Story of Batman With Sean Callagy

Summary

Podcast Summary

Unblinded with Sean Callagy – Michael Uslan: The True Story of Batman

Date: February 10, 2026
Host: Sean Callagy
Guest: Michael Uslan (Producer/“Godfather” of Batman Films and lifelong comics fan)

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Overview

In this richly engaging episode, Sean Callagy welcomes Michael Uslan, the man responsible for bringing the "real" Batman to the big screen, elucidating how his unyielding passion, Jersey perseverance, and mastery of influence made possible the transformation of Batman from a campy pop-culture joke to the global icon of grit and darkness we know today. The conversation journeys through Uslan’s childhood connection to comics, his early career innovations, the years-long battle to revive Batman’s cinematic legacy, and the deeper themes of belief, identity, and the power of story.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Early Love for Batman and the Pain of the “Campy” Era

• [00:00–06:41]:
  • Uslan describes the trauma of seeing the 1960s Batman TV series as a teenager, realizing the world saw Batman as a joke:

    “The whole world was laughing at my Batman. And that killed me.” (00:00, Michael Uslan)

  • Vows to show the world the “true Batman” as created in 1939:

    “I made a vow like young Bruce Wayne once made a vow...I will show the world the true Batman as he was created in 1939.” (05:40, Michael Uslan)

2. The Power of Passion, Perseverance, and Parental Influence

• [06:41–08:03, 12:24–14:59]:
  • Uslan recounts being a “blue collar kid from New Jersey,” learning commitment and grit from his stonemason father and supportive mother:

    “My dad was a stonemason...he would get up every morning before dawn...smile on his face, couldn’t wait to get to work...How can you not want to wake up on a rainy Monday morning and say, boy, I can’t wait to get to work?” (13:09, Michael Uslan)

  • His massive comic collection began as escape, with his parents nurturing his interests, leading to a record 30,000 comics by high school graduation.

3. Batman: The Human Superhero

• [15:37–16:10]:
  • Uslan explains Batman’s allure:

    “He was one of the only superheroes with no superpowers. His greatest superpower is his humanity. And I could identify with it. Everybody can identify with that.” (15:46, Michael Uslan)

4. Stan Lee as Idol and Mentor

• [16:10–16:58, 29:36–31:15]:
  • Uslan delivers insights from comics legend Stan Lee:

    “Stan said to me, ‘It’s the supervillains who are just as important as the superheroes, because ultimately they define the superheroes.’” (16:15, Michael Uslan)

  • Lee connects with Uslan after seeing his college comics class go viral, helping to mentor his budding career.

5. Teaching the First Accredited Comic Book Course

• [19:19–25:01]:
  • Uslan pitches and fights for the first college-accredited course on comic books, convincing a skeptical dean by paralleling Superman and the story of Moses:

    “He stares at me and says...‘Your course is accredited.’” (23:11, Michael Uslan)

6. Marketing through Guerrilla Tactics

• [26:15–27:20]:
  • On marketing his course by prank-calling UPI to create controversy and nationwide news:

    “I started screaming at him...‘this must be a communist plot to subvert the youth of America.’ And I slammed down the phone.” (26:15, Michael Uslan)

7. Breaking into Comics: The “Shadow” Script

• [35:12–40:39]:
  • Uslan seizes opportunities at DC, gets his first professional break writing “The Shadow” (by pitching a story on the fly).
  • Follows up by writing his first Batman story: Detective Comics #460.

8. The Herculean Task of Bringing Batman to the Movies

• [44:16–66:13]:
  • Sends 372 typewritten resumes to Hollywood execs in the pre-internet era (“on a typewriter”), gets two job offers with $95/week pay.
  • Goes to law school as fallback, works on Rocky, Raging Bull, Apocalypse Now at United Artists.
  • Assembles finances via private investors, finally buys the Batman film rights in 1979.
  • Faces “10 years of rejection” by every Hollywood studio, often mocked outright for wanting a “dark, serious” superhero movie.

9. The Role of Support Systems

• [66:14–68:34]:
  • Uslan credits his wife Nancy, who “does the important work in the family,” for her emotional, practical, and worldwide humanitarian support, as well as to his and Nancy’s families.

10. Breakthrough with Tim Burton and the 1989 Film

• [69:30–77:46]:
  • Tim Burton’s “big idea” was to make the movie about “Bruce Wayne, not Batman,” and to make Gotham real as a character.
  • Uslan gets the final critical funding/lifeline thanks to his father-in-law during a low point.
  • The film’s release changes Uslan’s life and launches the modern superhero film era.

11. Creative Influence and Legacy

• [77:46–87:40]:
  • Stories of teachers Mrs. Stiller and Mrs. Friedman; the importance of mastery and craft.
  • Uslan as “Batman’s Batman” – he refused to allow Batman to be made campy in film, even at the cost of losing deals.

    “You defend Batman. You are protecting Batman. You are Batman’s Batman.” (84:27, Michael Uslan’s mentor Ben Melnicker)

  • Transition from Burton to Schumacher to Nolan films traced to changing eras of Batman comics.

12. Nolan’s Trilogy and the Deepest Batman Themes

• [96:25–107:19]:
  • Christopher Nolan’s “realistic” approach, use of Chicago as Gotham, Bruce Wayne’s trauma and journey, the Joker as terrorist, Morgan Freeman’s credibility.
  • The power of cinematic storytelling for moral and ethical self-examination:

    “It’s about, what do you do when you have to make a moral choice and your choices are bad and worse?” (107:19, Michael Uslan)

13. The Power of Identity, Influence, and Teaching Others

• [110:12–114:09]:
  • Uslan’s speech at West Point, drawing a direct parallel between Batman’s vow and the sense of mission, honor, and identity for young soldiers:

    “Cadets of West Point, you are Batman.” (112:44, Michael Uslan)

  • The ripple effect: high-fiving, chest-bumping soldiers with their new calling card: “I am Batman. You are Batman.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Uslan’s Lifelong Vow (00:00–05:40)

“I made a vow like young Bruce Wayne once made a vow...I will show the world the true Batman as he was created in 1939.”
– Michael Uslan (05:40)

On Batman’s Humanity (15:46)

“He was one of the only superheroes with no superpowers. His greatest superpower is his humanity.”
– Michael Uslan (15:46)

The Genesis of Uslan’s Comics Course (23:11)

“He stares at me for what I swear to you is an eternity and says...‘Your course is accredited.’”
– Michael Uslan (23:11)

Mastery of Influence in Action (26:15)

“I just heard there’s a course on comic books being taught at Indiana University...This must be a communist plot to subvert the youth of America.”
– Michael Uslan (26:15, recounting his guerrilla PR tactics)

The Moment the Dream Becomes a Career (41:39, 66:13)

“Detective Comics number 460.”
– Michael Uslan (41:39, on his first Batman comic)

“From the day I bought the rights to Batman till I could finally get our first movie made, took me 10 years.”
– Michael Uslan (66:13)

On Identity, Integrity, and Refusing to Compromise Batman

“You are protecting Batman. You are Batman’s Batman.”
– Ben Melnicker, as recounted by Michael Uslan (84:27)

The Power of Story and Teacher’s Influence (77:46–81:08)

“For those of you who don’t believe there are superheroes in real life, you’ve never met a great teacher.”
– Michael Uslan (80:30)

Nolan’s Moral Quandary Scene & Its Power (107:19)

“It’s about, what do you do when you have to make a moral choice and your choices are bad and worse?”
– Michael Uslan (107:19)

Batman as National Symbol and Identity (112:44)

“Cadets of West Point, you are Batman.”
– Michael Uslan (112:44)

On Support Systems (66:52)

“Because I had a great support system in my wife, Nancy, in my parents, in her parents. And you can’t do it alone.”
– Michael Uslan (66:52)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–06:41: Uslan’s childhood and vow to change Batman’s legacy
• 12:24–16:10: Early comic passions; Batman’s unique humanity
• 19:19–25:01: Creating and defending the first college comics course
• 26:15–27:20: PR masterstroke—turning a crank call into national news
• 35:12–41:39: Breaking into DC, first Batman story
• 44:16–46:46: Hollywood hustle—sending out 372 resumes by hand
• 66:13–68:34: Ten years of Hollywood rejection, story of support from Nancy & family
• 69:30–77:46: Tim Burton, dealmaking, and the 1989 Batman film
• 81:08–82:04: Honoring formative teachers at the Batman premiere
• 84:27–85:20: Being “Batman’s Batman”—protecting the integrity of the character
• 96:25–107:19: Elevated themes in Nolan’s trilogy; Bane, the Joker, moral dilemmas
• 110:12–114:09: The West Point story—Batman as a symbol for service and calling

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Flow and Tone

The episode is intimate, high-energy, and inspirational—rich with anecdotes, vulnerable moments, and laughter. Sean’s style is enthusiastic and deeply reverent, while Michael’s storytelling is warm, humorous, and full of Jersey grit. They continually loop lessons of self-mastery, influence, risk, and the lasting power of iconic stories—inviting listeners to see themselves through the Batman lens: ordinary humans with the potential for extraordinary impact when identity, integrity, and perseverance align.

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Key Takeaways

• Influence is a superpower, and when used with integrity, reshapes culture and possibility.
• Persistence overcomes ridicule: Uslan’s 10-year campaign to revive Batman required withstanding repeated, even public, “no's.”
• Identity matters: Batman endures because he is “the most human” of superheroes—his superpower is mastery over self, not superhuman ability.
• Never do it alone: Behind every “Dark Knight” is an Alfred, a Lucius Fox, a Nancy—a support system that makes heroism possible.
• Great teachers are superheroes: Story, mentorship, and high standards transform young potential into lasting legacy.
• We are all Batman: Our story, emotions, setbacks, and resurrection are what make us extraordinary.

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Suggested Next Steps for Listeners

• Reflect on what vow ignites your passion.
• Consider who in your life is your “support system”—and how you show up for others.
• Examine how you wield your “influence superpower”—with mastery, not manipulation.
• Honor the teachers who shaped your journey.
• Remember: Batman had no superpowers—just purpose, integrity, mastery, and community.

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For More

• Michael Uslan’s memoir: The Boy Who Loved Batman (in print and audio)
• Broadway adaptation of his memoir soon to come
• Continue listening to Unblinded for further deep dives into influence mastery

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Summary prepared in the energy and spirit of Uslan's own “Zeus energy,” inviting all to claim their Batman within.

Transcript

[Michael Uslan]

The whole world was laughing at my Batman. And that killed me. He said, don't you understand that since Batman went off the air in television, the brand is as dead as a dodo? He said, nobody's interested in Batman anymore. This was a dream I had since I was 8 years old. For the next 5 months, I was working 20 hour days all the time. I had no relatives in Hollywood. So how do you get there from here? Perseverance, passion. They said this was the worst idea they ever heard. They said you can't make serious comic book movies. You can't do dark superheroes. You can't make a movie out of an old TV series nobody's ever done. That I decided was that I had nothing to lose. So I stood my ground. And if Batman and my journey have done nothing else, that for me meant everything. What?

[Sean]

Are you. Okay? I made a lot of that up. I hope I was right. So now, Michael, congratulations on everything you've done. It is an honor and privilege to have you here. Thank you. And I'm a little intimidated for like 14 different reasons, not the least of which is you bring an H bomb to the party. Is that true that you're a Harvard guy?

[Michael Uslan]

No.

[Sean]

You're not a Harvard guy?

[Michael Uslan]

No, I'm an Indiana University proud, Al.

[Sean]

I'm so much less intimidated because I despise Harvard. I played at Columbia, so. But congratulations. You guys are ranked number three in college football right now.

[Michael Uslan]

Yeah, it's the first time in history that Indiana's had a good football team.

[Sean]

Let's hear for that.

[Michael Uslan]

I grew up, it was all about basketball. Bobby Knight, it was about swimming and Mark Spitz, but my God, it's football. Now who to?

[Sean]

So this is even better because you don't have to go to an Ivy League school to recreate the universe and create billions and billions of value. Make some noise for that. Yeah. So thank you for being here. It is an honor. We spoke back in the green room for a few minutes and I'll just share it. Same thing I shared there. I'll share with these folks and just like hear. The physical energetic connection is the space of Batman and the time frame between when I was 3, 4, 5, 6, watching the Adam West, Burt Ward Batman and reruns to 1989, Michael Keaton, Jack Nicholson was a time I desperately missed Batman. When they took Batman reruns off the air with Adam west when I was little, we actually wrote to the New York TV station to ask them to please put them back on. Like, that's how much this meant to my heart and being so, it is such an unbelievable honor to have you here. So, Michael, can you just share? How do we get here? Like, what's this look like for you growing up? Where do you intersect with Batman? And please take us from there.

[Michael Uslan]

Sure. Well, first of all, you can blame me for having that silly TV series taken off the air. Look, I get it. If you were a little kid back then, it was great. But back then, in January 1966, when this premiered, I was a teenage hardcore comic book fan. I had already met the creators of Batman, Bill Finger and Bob Kane, and they told me what their vision was in the creation of Batman. And it was meant to be a dark knight to be taken very seriously. Batman battling deeply disturbed villains in the shadows. So my goal was to erase from the collective consciousness of the world culture these three awful words. Pow, zap, and wham.

[Sean]

So let's hear from Michael. And just because some folks, if you never saw an episode of the Adam West Burt Ward Batman, if you never saw it, say yes. Yeah, a few people. So, Tank, mj, Do we have a quick clip? All right, let's. Let's see it. So can. Can you hold your breakfast down for one moment? Because we want to support people in seeing what was that you helped eradicate to what is.

[Michael Uslan]

I hope it's the bat, too. C scene.

[Sean]

It may be worse. It may be worse. So here we go. All right, we don't want Michael to leave, so let's pause and then do we have our other clip? Yes or no, Michael? Okay, so hold on for one sec. So just like, what's present for you? What was present for you when you first saw that horror?

[Michael Uslan]

I realized 20 minutes into the first episode that this was a comedy and that Batman was played as a joke. The whole world was laughing at my Batman, and that killed me. So that night, in the basement den of our house down in Ocean Township, New Jersey. Yeah, in front of my two best friends, Bobby and Barry, I made a vow. I made a vow like young Bruce Wayne once made a vow. Except Bruce Wayne made his vow over the slaughtered bodies of his parents in the street. My parents were safe upstairs in the kitchen. And I said, somehow, someday, some way, I will show the world the true Batman as he was created in 1939. That's where it started.

[Sean]

And that is Zeus energy. If you feel that Zeus energy, say yes. The absolute certainty and commitment to something immovable. Resolved. Decided. Unstoppable. Am I hearing you correctly, sir?

[Michael Uslan]

Yes, you are. To me, it all starts with Passion. You have to be passionate about something. You have to feel it virtually burning through your veins. And I mean, I'm a blue collar kid from New Jersey, folks. My dad was a stonemason. My mom was a bookkeeper. I didn't come from money. I couldn't buy my way into Hollywood. I didn't know anybody in Hollywood. I had no relatives in Hollywood. So how do you get there from here? Perseverance. Passion.

[Sean]

Yes. An incredible amount of influence. Mastery. Because you had to cause a lot of yeses. And when you get there in one moment that we're driven by that passion at heart. And let's watch just one more scene to demonstrate the ridiculousness. But. But just pause it for one more sec. Tank. Before we do, though, remember, for those that don't know, Batman became Batman, beginning with the murder of his parents in cold blood. Murdered in front of his eyes as a child. So imagine that's where it begins. And now we're seeing pow. And zapp. To understand where Michael's heart would hurt. Now, I was a little boy, so I had no idea that Batman's parents were murdered. I'm three and four and five years old. And I was born in 70. So 70. Three, four, five. I'm three, four, five. I'm like, pow. Zap. Yay.

[Michael Uslan]

Fun.

[Sean]

Cool. Because they had no idea of what this character actually was at the depth and the drive and the trauma and the recreation of reality. Right. So imagine. And let's hit this next scene. Imagine this is what Michael, who understands what Bob Kane and the creators created in 1939. Imagine if you thought that was bad, imagine this, please.

[Michael Uslan]

Oh, no, not this. This was the straw that broke the camel's back.

[Sean]

Here comes the wave today. They ought to be able to take off on it. They have.

[Michael Uslan]

Something sure seems to be pounding in that trash can. Busy.

[Sean]

Joker's good. What a kick turn. But watch Batman trimming. Joker's shuffling. Now he's cutting back to meet the curl. He caught it. He's riding the hook.

[Michael Uslan]

Batman can't beat Joker.

[Sean]

But watch him trot the squad. Look there.

[Michael Uslan]

A shark.

[Sean]

What's that in his hand? Make the noise of this, Michael. My God. Please, would you. I'm sure you remember this. Do you remember this, please?

[Michael Uslan]

So many years later, I'm at San Diego Comic Con on a Batman panel. Thousands of people in the room. Sro. And they announce at the last minute there's going to be a guest pan panelist. And who walks in but Adam West. And he sits down next to me and he grabs the mic and for the first time ever, he said, you know, I've come to realize there can be many different interpretations of Batman. There doesn't have to be simply one Batman. And it was a very, very kind gesture. So I took the microphone and I said, you know, Adam, every two seconds, Robin on the show was going, holy chair, holy car, holy this, holy that. I said, but I'm now going to let 12 year old Michael out for a moment and I'm going to give the microphone to Michael at age 12. And I then looked at him and I said, oh, my God, I'm sitting next to the Batman of the swinging 60s hobby. Holy shit. And with that, the place went crazy. He stood up, gave me a bear hug, I gave him a bear hug, and we made peace.

[Sean]

Wow, thank you. Because, correct me if I'm wrong, so Adam west is the person that played Batman in the Campy series. And he was deeply offended and upset when the movie in 19, it was 89. Am I correct? 89. Correct. 89. The Batman movie came out with Michael Keaton playing Batman, Jack Nicholson, that he was deeply offended and upset that he wasn't gonna play Batman. Am I correct on that?

[Michael Uslan]

Yeah, yeah. He wanted to either play Batman or as he used to say, I'll at least play Uncle Batman. And as if those of you have seen the 89 movie that Tim Burton directed, there's kind of no room for that interpretation of Batman anymore.

[Sean]

Yes. So what happened? You go from, I, Michael, am horrified at this. If I could actually one half a step back. So where did your love for Batman come from in the comics or how did you become introduced to Batman in the comics?

[Michael Uslan]

Thanks to my older brother, Paul. First of all, you have to understand, my older brother was a superstar in every sport he ever did. And I barely could swing a bat, and no pun intended, by the way. And I escaped into a world of comic books, a world of superheroes. And for me, it was Superman and Batman and Spider man and all the DC and Marvel superheroes in particular. That was my world. And they, My mom said that that's what taught me how to read before I was 4 years old. By the time I graduated high school at Ocean Township High, I had over 30,000 comic books dating back to the 1930s.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Michael Uslan]

From the day we moved into our house, my dad never once could get his car in the garage. It was floor to ceiling comic books. And that's where the passion was nurtured. My parents were very supportive. They knew they had a strange son and they catered to my interests. I attended the first comic book convention ever held on the planet earth. I was 14. There were 200 of us at the first comic con, and I got to meet people of my community. I found it was a community, and we got to meet for the first time, all of us fans, face to face, or more accurately, pimple to pimple. But it was really incredible, and I knew that I had to make comic books and superheroes part of my adult life. If there's anything, Sean, that my dad ever taught me, it was as a stonemason. He would get up every morning before dawn, work six days a week. From age 16 when he dropped out of high school to help his family survive the depression Till he was 80 years old, my dad woke up with a smile on his face and couldn't wait to get to work. He was an old world artist, a real craftsman. And what he built out of stone and cement, just incredible. And when you live in a house like that and you have somebody who has that kind of an attitude, how can you not want to wake up on a rainy Monday morning and say, boy, I can't wait to get to work. Wow. So Paul and I went to work for my dad during high school, and it was the worst thing I ever experienced in my life. We were carrying bags of cement and bricks. We were tarring foundations in the heat. And that's when my dad explained to me, michael, you need to find your own bricks and stones.

[Sean]

Wow. Look at this. That's the difference how masterful a storyteller and context setter is. Michael, make some noise for that. Yeah. Thank you. Really, because this is what we're teaching. Influence, mastery, what to do with it, how emotionally you get yourself to use it to generate your bricks and stones in life. Like that's what we're doing here. And really, I had no idea how masterful you were already. Thank you. It's remarkable. So from there, what is it about? Was Batman your favorite? And if so, why?

[Michael Uslan]

Batman was my favorite, and it's for a very simple reason. He was one of the only superheroes with no superpowers.

[Sean]

Amen.

[Michael Uslan]

His greatest superpower is his humanity. And I could identify with it. Everybody can identify with that. It transcends borders. It hits cultures. He also, as you pointed out, has the most powerful origin story, witnessing as a child the murder of his parents before his eyes. He has the greatest array of supervillains ever created.

[Sean]

Amen.

[Michael Uslan]

And I was having lunch with Stan Lee, my mentor and friend.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Michael Uslan]

Those of you who don't know what's here for Stanley.

[Sean]

Can I drop a quick footnote? We have licensed Stan Lee's AI voice and make some of our videos with his voice. But please, back to you.

[Michael Uslan]

Well, I first met Stan when I was 11 years old. And there'll be more about Stan as this conversation generates. But Stan said to me, he said, you know, Michael, you've got to remember when you start doing these movies that it's the supervillains who are just as important as the superheroes, because ultimately they define the superheroes. And he was very right about that. And the last bit of magic of Batman, the car. I mean, the car.

[Sean]

Amazing. You will have to drag me off this stage or Michael will have to leave first, because I will be here for the next four days. And I just, like, I cannot tell you this. And fun. Footnote. Do you know David Maisel, founder of Marvel Studios? Yep. So did you know David was here at this immersion? He spoke two days ago.

[Michael Uslan]

That's great. I know David. He's a great guy.

[Sean]

Yeah. So we had a. This is, like, unbelievable. And it was just pain in my heart to say how much more of a DC guy than Marvel guy I am. But, you know, we'll stay here. And quick footnote. So going off track, just stream of consciousness. Batman. I'm sorry, Superman versus Muhammad Ali. Larger comic book. Of course, you have to know that your feelings, impressions about that. And when that came out, I was.

[Michael Uslan]

Working at DC when that came out, so I was behind the scenes at the time. That book was being prepared. And at that point, Muhammad Ali was maybe the most famous person internationally that existed at the moment. And he was a superhero in his own right. So the idea that DC had of setting up a battle of the century between Superman and Muhammad Ali worked on a lot of levels. And the theme was basically man's humanity toward man. And the themes of that particular issue were very, very strong, very, very positive. And it was one of the great projects that DC undertook.

[Sean]

Amen. And I loved it as a child. I love this day. I have my copy of it. I got it literally fresh in the store. And the COVID of it had Superman and Muhammad Ali fighting in a boxing match. And the entire crowd, or almost all the crowd, were famous people. And so you would see their faces on the COVID and you open up the inside cover, and their faces were numbered. And then you look up the number and the name of who it actually was, like Farrah Fawcett and other famous people of the day. I mean, it was beautiful and remarkable. So we have this world of Batman and your love for Batman. And how does this turn into your life's work?

[Michael Uslan]

Well, I was always looking for an opportunity to get my foot in the door somewhere, somehow that would take me on a path into the world of comic books and movies. And that opportunity first arose when I went to Indiana University. It was the early 70s, folks. It was a time of great experimentation on college campuses. And that's all I'm going to say about it. But in response to those times, the College of Arts and Sciences began an experimental curriculum department. If you had an idea for a course that had never been taught in college before, and if you could get the backing of a department on campus, you then had the right to appear before a panel of deans and professors and pitch it. Even though I was an undergrad, I was a junior, I could literally teach a course on campus for three hours of credit. I said, what an opportunity. Nobody in the world, there's never been a college accredited course on comic books before. So I wrote a syllabus and I went to the folklore department and I met with my professor. I said, look, comic books are our modern day mythology. The superheroes are contemporary folklore. I said, the Greeks called him Poseidon. The Romans called him Neptune. I call him Aquaman. The Greeks called him Hermes. The Romans called him Mercury. I call him the Flash.

[Sean]

Amen.

[Michael Uslan]

And my professor said, you know, Michael, you're right. If you go back and look, it doesn't matter if we call it King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table or the Avengers, it's the same thing. I will back you.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Michael Uslan]

So I went in to appear before the dean and the professors, my hair down to my shoulders. I'm wearing a Spider Man T shirt, package of comic books under my arm, my hippie love beads, thank you very much. And I walk into this cavernous, dark room and the dean is sitting at the end of a table. He's got that little pair of half glasses at the end of his nose, looking down at me over his glasses and says, so you're the fellow who wants to teach a course on funny books at my university. I knew I was in deep trouble. I launch into the first pitch of my career. He lets me speak for two minutes and cuts me off. He says, Mr. Uslan, come on. I read comic books when I was a little boy. I read every issue of Superman I could get my hands on. But all comic books are cheap entertainment for little kids. Nothing more, nothing less. And I reject your theory. This was now a life Changing moment for me. Because what I decided was that I had nothing to lose. So I stood my ground and I said, dean, may I just ask you two questions? He said, ask me anything you want. I said, are you familiar with the story of Moses? And he looked at me like I was out of my mind. He said, yeah. So I said, so, Dean, very very briefly, could you just summarize the story of Moses for me? Sits back, he goes, Mr. Uslan, I don't know what game you're playing here, but we have a few minutes yet. I'll play it with you. The Hebrew people were being persecuted. Their firstborn were being slain. Hebrew couple place their infant son in a little wicker basket and send him down the river Nile. There he's discovered by an Egyptian family who raised him as their own son. But when he grows up and learns of his true heritage, he becomes a great hero to his people. I said, stop. That was great, Dean. Thank you so much. You said you read Superman comics when you were a kid. By any chance, do you remember the origin of Superman? He said, sure. The planet Krypton was about to blow up. A scientist and his wife place their infant son in a little rocket ship and send him to Earth. He said, there he's discovered by the Kents, who raise him as their own son. When he grows up, he stops, stares at me for what I swear to you is an eternity and says, your course is accredited.

[Sean]

The superpower of human influence. If Michael can, you can. Is it valuable to have speakers here? Yes. Thank you. Amazing. By the way, if you thought before this moment that Batman had superpowers, say us. Yeah. Batman had none. He was a master. And he developed himself at every level, completely. His mind, his body, his spirit, from the place of the deepest trauma. And that is why Michael loves him, why I love him, and why so many people have Batman as their favorite superhero. Because Spider man was bitten by a radioactive spider and developed superpowers. Superman is an alien from another world. That the gravity works differently on him here and a number of other dynamics. The Hulk is the Hulk and all of these creatures, the Flash, superpowers, they all have superpowers. Batman has none. Right. And as Michael shared his humanity, Batman, no matter what, would not only not kill the super villains, but he would risk his life to save their life because he would not want to become what killed his parents. Am I hearing you correctly, sir?

[Michael Uslan]

Absolutely. May I tell part two of what just happened, please?

[Sean]

Yes.

[Michael Uslan]

There was a follow up to this.

[Sean]

Yes.

[Michael Uslan]

I was so excited, Sean. I raced Back to my apartment. And I called my mom and dad in New Jersey. And my mom said, michael, this is very exciting. This is great, but if you don't market yourself, if you don't market your creative wares, nobody will ever hear of it. And I said, Ma, I'm 20 years old, I'm in Bloomington, Indiana, and I have no money. What am I supposed to do? She said, you're a smart boy. You'll think of something. So I hung up from my parents thought for two minutes, and I picked up the phone and I called upi, United Press International. Now, back then, UPI was as big a new syndicate as the Associated Press is today. I asked to speak to a reporter. This poor man gets on the phone.

[Sean]

I need to interrupt. Do you understand what you're listening to? Just fucking do this. Thank you. Please, back to you.

[Michael Uslan]

This reporter gets on the phone, and I started screaming at him. I go, what is wrong with you? He goes, excuse me? I said, you're supposed to be the watchdogs of our society. You're not doing your job. He said, what are you talking about? What am I talking about? Are you kidding me? I. I just heard there's a course on comic books being taught at Indiana University. I said, are you telling me, as a taxpayer in this state, they're now using my money to teach our kids comic books? I said, this is outrageous. This must be a communist plot to subvert the youth of America. And I slammed down the phone.

[Sean]

Oh, my God.

[Michael Uslan]

It took this guy three days to find out if there was such a course. He found out who the lunatic was teaching. It shows up at my doorstep with a photographer. They do an article. It's a third of a page long. It gets picked up by virtually every newspaper in North America, a bunch in Europe.

[Sean]

Unbelievable. Listen, this has been an incredible lineup, right? We had Charlie Sheen here. We had Ralph Macchio here. We had arguably the most brilliant woman in AI in America that was Google's chief decision officer and ran their AI programs, trained 20,000 people, Google. And we had David. And when we had this conversation, this was. And I thank Brian Esposito. What's here for Brian, For Michael being here, right? So thank you, Brian. And we just, like. We had eight folks coming to speak. We have still Sugar Ray Leonard and Gary Vaynerchuk and Kevin Mayer that acquired Lucasfilms and Pixar and Marvel for Disney, Sadia Khan tonight. And it was like, oh, my God. Like, this is unbelievable, this opportunity of all these speakers. And I was like, we just can't. We can't. I can't tell you how grateful I am because I, and I want to say so precisely, I don't want to in any way, shape or form limit all of the prior insanity, but there has been no more practically useful conversation we've had than this one. The dude just picked up the phone, disruptively went from hello to yes, created virality before they were computers. That's what this guy did. And you could do the same. Okay, sorry. Michael, please, back to you.

[Michael Uslan]

Well, I got invited on radio and TV talk shows. Every class I ever taught. The classroom was filled with television cameras and reporters. NBC Nightly News, the CBS Evening News. We had, oh, there was one day. I had Parade magazine, Family Weekly and Playboy. I mean, everybody was into this and the word was spreading. So two weeks later, my phone rings and it is this exuberant male voice. He goes, hi, is this Mike Uslan? I go, yeah, hi, I'm Mike, this is Stan Lee from Marvel Comics in New York City.

[Sean]

It's crazy.

[Michael Uslan]

I call this my burning bush moment. I was talking to my God and Stan said, you know, Mike, I'm seeing you on tv, I'm reading about you in newspapers. What you're doing is great for the whole comic book industry. How can I help you? And that was the moment Stan changed from my idol to my mentor. That's eventually building up a friendship.

[Sean]

I mean, Stan Lee, many people relate to. Until I did some research a little bit more recently, about two months ago, I thought Stan Lee was the creator of Marvel comics. He was not. But he is the face, the identity of Marvel. Who is Stan Lee, your mentor? Who is he in the comic world? In the Marvel world? According to Michael Uslan, he is the.

[Michael Uslan]

Co creator of the entire pantheon of Marvel superheroes. He is the person that elevated comic books. Up until that time, comic books were being aimed at 8 to 12 year old boys. And Stan started to write more intelligently and in a more sophisticated graphic storytelling manner, along with the fabulous artists like Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko, who, who worked with him, created with him. And he turned comic books into something that you could continue to read as you hit high school, as you hit college. And he opened up the audience worldwide to older people, which ushered in the age of graphic novels, which is where we are today. So I don't know how you measure that, but it really is immeasurable.

[Sean]

Wow. Unbelievable. And has anybody here, if you have never read a comic book ever, say yes. Okay. If you've never read a graphic novel, say yes. Okay, so how would you articulate, Michael, what graphic novels are just so we can contextualize all this and then go back into the 70s rollout up until you acquire this option, which I cannot wait to hear this story. But like, what. What is a graphic novel? According to Michael Uslan, those of you.

[Michael Uslan]

Who are not Gen Z, you need to tune in because this is one of the ways the world is changing. Graphic novels. Think of the floppy comic books, the individual issues we all read. Think about putting four or five or six of them together and publishing it as a book form. Okay? That's the concept of a graphic novel. Go to a Barnes and Noble while there's still some left and go through the aisles and you will see an entire row of graphic novels. And then you will see two rows of manga. Manga are graphic novels coming out of Japan. There's Manhwa coming out of Korea. And this is where it is all moving. The I think the last statistic I SAW was currently 50% of all gen Zs and millennials are reading graphic novels monthly. 50% overall for all groups it's 30% and it's growing in leaps and bounds. I just spoke at New York Comic con Javits Center. 225,000 people, it's about one third now Asian groups that are set up there. The feeling is within just a couple of years it will dominate both San Diego Comic Con and New York Comic Con. That's how fast things are changing. Whether it's American or English speaking. Graphic novels, graphic novels coming from Europe or the fastest growing audience out of Asia.

[Sean]

Amazing. And like to give you just a bit of an illustration, a graphic novel that I loved incredibly was Batman and Jack the Ripper. So this is a deep graphic novel and you just open up and Batman is in the time of Jack the Ripper and the greatest detective ever. Because Batman was introduced not in about a comic called Batman, but in a comic called Detective Comics. And now Batman is in pursuit of Jack the Ripper. And that's not necessarily known as like a great graphic novel, but it was a graphic novel I love. And then at some point like Batman was like the Lone Ranger, but like seriously, like not in jest. So this world in my twenties of graphic novels emerging became something I would do Michael on every Friday. I was in the beginning of building this formula, this work and not wanting to go blind and be broke. And my de stressor wasn't alcohol, it wasn't drugs thankfully, but it was going to at the Bergen Mall, the comic book store and buying every Single Batman, detective comic, all the graphic novels. And then I would spread to getting Superman. And for those again, that don't know, there's alternate storylines running for these characters as the proliferation of more and more comic books came out through the 1980s into the 1990s. And it's an entire universe of dynamics. So, again, I thank you for all that. But. So what year is this you're teaching at Indiana?

[Michael Uslan]

What year?

[Sean]

I'm sorry, what year are you teaching these courses?

[Michael Uslan]

This was the early 70s. Okay, so how did 72, 34.

[Sean]

Now, Stan Lee is your mentor. So how do we move towards you and Batman?

[Michael Uslan]

Okay, so there were two giant steps to come. Two hours after Stan called me, I get a call from the president of DC Comics, and they said, we've been listening to you on the radio, reading about you in magazines. You're a very innovative young man. We'd like to fly you to New York and discuss ways we could work together. Okay. I'm in New York, and they offer me a job where I would work in the offices during my summers, and then they would put me on retainer and help me pay the rest of my way through Indiana University. Wow. So I'm on the job less than a week in New York. It's the end of a day. I hear yelling and screaming coming from down the hall. I think somebody's being murdered. I go running down, it's the editor of a comic book called the Shadow. The Shadow is a very, very famous character in the history of media. Dark, mysterious, and the singular major influence on Bill Finger and Bob Kane in the creation of Batman. And all the Shadow's adventures took place in the 30s and 40s, and it was the editor of the Shadow. So I said, are you okay? He goes, no, I am not okay. I go, denny, what's the problem? He said, they just told me they switched our publishing schedule and that a shadow comic book script is due in by tomorrow afternoon. I said, so why is that bad? He said, michael, it's bad because I don't have a shadow script. I don't have a shadow story. I don't even have an idea for a shadow story. I said, I have an idea for a shadow story. He said, you do? I didn't, But I recognized that the door was open a crack, so I shoved my foot in. He said, all right, come in, sit down. What's your idea for a shadow story? You're going to love this. My wife Nancy, at that point, my girlfriend Nancy and I just came back from a trip to Niagara Falls. And when we're up there, we learned that back in the 30s and 40s, people were going over the falls and barrels and walking across Niagara Falls on a tightrope. I said, picture this shadow and a bad guy battling on a tightrope over Niagara Falls at night with floodlights going. He said, now that's a great visual. That'll make a great cover. But what's the story about? I said, well, I was just getting to that. The story is about smuggling. What are they smuggling? Well, they are smuggling drugs. And he says, well, Michael, you know, a story, you need a creative take. You need something really creative. I said, danny, this is the best part. I've been saving it for last. They were going over the falls and barrels back then. False bottoms in the barrels, that's where they hide the drugs. They go over the Canadian side, they wash up onto the American side. That's how they'd get them across. He said, now that's different. That's creative. Can you have a full script on my desk by 6 o' clock tomorrow? I said, not a problem. He, he says, go do it. I'm now a writer for DC Comics.

[Sean]

Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Levels of self mastery. If you're present to it, say yes. Influence mastery. If you're present to it, say yes. Ecosystem merging process mastery, say yes. He's got to have the dean say yes. He's got to have the press say yes. He's got to then have the. The creator of the shadow, say yes. It's incredible. And the power of the stage and the microphone is what generates the inbound call from Stan Lee, Marvel and dc. The intersection of the entire comic world is in search of Michael Uslan. Because Michael has created a stage and a microphone for himself, not only in the college classroom, but also in the media, on radio, on television. Why can't you do the same? If you're inspired to do the same, say yes. If you're willing to commit to do the same, say yes. You don't need all the yeses, you just need the right ones present to it. Yeah, let's hear for that. Okay, so thank you, Michael. So the shadow and please keep us going. This is. If you are enthralled, say yes. Okay? Please.

[Michael Uslan]

I pull an all nighter, I get the script done, I hand it in. Two weeks later, I'm walking down the halls of DC Comics and who's coming toward me but a very important editor, one of the most important editors in comic book history, who introduced, reintroduced the dark Batman to comic books. After that thing went off the air. And he's a gruff guy. He was a marshmallow once he got to know him, but he was pretty gruff. And he sees me come and he goes, hey, kid. I said, yes, Julie? He goes, I read your shadow script. I said, you did? He goes, yeah, it didn't stink. I said, oh, thank you so much. Thank you very, very much. Goes, how'd you like to take a shot at writing Batman?

[Sean]

Oh, my God.

[Michael Uslan]

I still get the chills. I still get the chills.

[Sean]

What did you feel in that moment?

[Michael Uslan]

Stunned. The fact that I can still, whenever I say it today, still get the chills up my neck gives you an idea of the impact it had. This was a dream I had since I was 8 years old to one day write Batman comics. And when my first Batman comic book came out, through the tears, admittedly, I panicked. I said, oh, my God. This dream I had since I was eight has come true. I don't have a dream anymore. I need a new dream. And that's when I remembered back that cold night in January 66. I said, okay, now's the moment. I gotta go make dark and serious Batman movies. I have to show the whole world the true Batman. And that was the next step forward.

[Sean]

What, may I ask, what was the. Was it Batman? Detective comics. What was your first Batman creation?

[Michael Uslan]

Detective Comics number 460.

[Sean]

T. I want Detective Comics number 460 team. For sure. Yes.

[Michael Uslan]

And if you want to see the shadow with the Niagara Falls, it's the shadow number nine.

[Sean]

Let's. Guys, let's pull up and put up on the screen shadow number nine. Let's grab that. And Batman. Detective Comics. Right. Detective Comics episode 460. So Detective Comics 460. Shadow number nine. What shows up on the screen in a moment in honor of Michael? If you are inspired, say yes. Yeah. Yeah. And if you note, it's also Michael's influence mastery in his contextualization, emotional and energetic transference and delivery. If you're present to that, say yes. If you find. I'm not saying that, Michael. That you like Michael most. That's not the question. Maybe you do. But if you find his influence mastery in delivering the truth of the points for you to take away is the most powerful of anyone yet on this stage, say yes. Undoubtedly.

[Michael Uslan]

Yeah. But now come all the setbacks and all the heartbreak.

[Sean]

So which is this now? Because I can't see.

[Michael Uslan]

Yeah, that's my first Batman story.

[Sean]

Let's hear for that. And who's on? I can't see him like, what's on.

[Michael Uslan]

The COVID Well, first of all, you see the logo for DC Comics back in the 70s up there? The line of superstars. I designed that. And that was one of my proud contributions to DC Comics. I figured if Batman existed in the real world and villains were analyzing this, they said nobody could be that great. Nobody could have so many skill sets. There has to be more than one Batman. And this group of criminals come up and they look at everything, all right? One clearly is acrobatic. One clearly is really strong. One clearly is super smart. And they believe that there are three men who together comprise a team that everybody believes is one Batman. And Bruce Wayne gets onto this and sets them up so that it looks like what they are saying is actually what the case is. And then he uses it to boomerang back and defeat them.

[Sean]

Wow, that is absolutely unbelievable. Unbelievable. And how did you continue? Do we have shadow? Let's go. Shadow number nine. So, yes, please take us from there. And then whenever you guys have shadow, just put it up. So what happens from there now? This vision of bringing Batman to the big screen? Please.

[Michael Uslan]

All right. So now I needed to go to work in the movie business. Movie and TV business. But again, I know nobody in the industry. I have no relatives in the industry. So my senior year at Indiana, every Friday, I went to the library. They got a copy of Variety magazine, which is the bible for the movie TV industry. I took a yellow notepad and a pen. I'm that old. And I would write down the names of any executive that I ever saw, listed what their title was, what their company was. At the end of my senior year, I had a list of 372 executives in the movie and TV industry and was able to type out and send 372 resumes to specific human beings, not to human resources.

[Sean]

Hold on now, hold on now. So if you've ever used AI, say yes. If you could produce 372 letters to Ideal Potential Ecosystem partners for you in two hours or less, if you know that's true, say yes. If you have not done it, say yes. No judgment. This dude did it on a typewriter. That's why he's sitting here. And there's no. Yeah, I'll take one sec. One sec, one sec, one sec. Wait one sec. It's not judgment to feel bad from. It's simply to make a behavioral change. He didn't dream of slaying the dragon. He went out and found the dragon. And he sprinted into the cave repeatedly and continuously. There is no more efficient embodiment story of Helodius than what you're sharing, the efficiency with which you're sharing this. And Michael mentioned in the green room, I was like, yeah, I kind of go off on tangents sometimes. Like, dude, you are insanely, masterfully, laser focused with unbelievable heart energy and transference. I had no idea. And I don't say it to you. Great. This is what I do for a living. This is my mastery in the world. The words I'm saying to you. My opinion is about as informed an opinion as on the planet. That's what I do. And I'm just, brother, I see you. This is incredible how you deliver, but please, over you.

[Michael Uslan]

I attribute that to my mom. My mom taught me and my brother the meaning of commitment and perseverance. And I go back to the Little League story where I couldn't swing a bat and I had a jerk for a coach. I was 8 years old, and at the end of one Little League game. Come on. I'm eight years old. This coach pulls aside three of us just out of range of our parents where they could hear it, and starts screaming in my face and says, you guys all struck out more than once. This game. You cost us this game. You're all. The three of you are a bunch of clowns. Get out of my face.

[Sean]

Oh, my God.

[Michael Uslan]

And I went home hysterical. And of course, my mom had her mom radar going, and she knew something was up. And I said, I hate him. I hate this whole thing. I'm never going back. And my mom says, yes, you are. And I got really upset. She said, listen to me. She goes, I'm going to talk to him. That will never, ever, ever happen again. I promise you that. But, Michael, you made a commitment to your team that you would show up at every practice and every game. And sometimes when we make a commitment, it becomes a matter of what we call honor. And we have to honor those commitments. And sometimes doing that will cause pain. So you have to endure a little bit of pain. But this is a matter of honor, and you have to fulfill it. You don't have to go back next year if you don't want to. And it was my mother's making us understand this whole concept of commitment, perseverance, and pain that have helped both me and my brother through life. My brother was in a horrible motorcycle accident. He was in the hospital for a year.

[Sean]

Oh, my God.

[Michael Uslan]

Had 26 operations.

[Sean]

Oh, my God.

[Michael Uslan]

And was the fifth microsurgery leg reattachment in the country.

[Sean]

Oh, my God.

[Michael Uslan]

And through all that pain and all that suffering, it was my mother's. What she put into him about persevering, enduring the pain and getting across the finish line ultimately. So it impacted us in different ways, but it was the same thing.

[Sean]

My God. Wow. Let's see if it is. And if I may ask this so clear. So we break things just for fun, to give Michael a sense of what we're up to. Just throw the full formula slide up there tank for a sec. So this conversation that you're sharing is for us. The work that we claim we're in is the codification of all results ever produced in the world. It's a small claim. And we say we have the only complete, holistic, diagnostic, dynamic, interconnected actualization tool for all of human AI business and mission acceleration on Earth. That explains the rise and fall of the Greek and Roman empires, explains the story of Moses, the proliferation of Batman and Marvel. Your life, everything mine. Everyone's here. And so we're having a conversation right now with your mom about self mastery, the seven components that liberate or destroy our ability to take zone action. And you are a master of taking his own action. But then you have to cause. Yes. So it isn't just the perseverance, it's the mastery. Just the concept of how you communicated with the people in the newspaper and how you frame it. This outrageous communist plot that's an unbelievable demonstration of human influence any place that came from. Was it your mom, who's also a masterful communicator? Where is your masterful ability to create? Yes, from we say and no. There's four steps, 12 dispensable, almost four energies in that codification. Where did yours come from? Because it is remarkable.

[Michael Uslan]

I think it comes from both my comic book influence and my Jersey influence.

[Sean]

Okay, let's hear for that.

[Michael Uslan]

Look, we have a Jersey attitude, right? That can't be beat. I got to tell you a story. Do we have time to.

[Sean]

We have. Dude, they could. You guys could do whatever you want. If you want more of Michael, say yes. Okay, yeah.

[Michael Uslan]

All right. Here's what I mean by Jersey attitude. I had a comic book property that I wanted to make into a movie, and Bruce Willis was interested in it. This is many years ago. And his agent, manager, I'm talking to them, and they said, all right, we're going to set up a lunch for you to meet Bruce and talk about it. He said, michael, Bruce can be challenging sometimes. And if he has a bad attitude or something, please don't Take it personally. I said, I think I can handle it. I'm okay. So I go to meet him and he's already sitting down. I introduce myself. Before I can even get my butt in the seat, he goes, you know, the only reason I took this damn meeting was because they told me you were a Jersey boy like me. He said, is that true or is that just more Hollywood bs? I said, no, actually, that's true. And he goes, yeah. I go, yeah. He goes, where you from? I said, well, I grew up at exit 105 and today I live at exit 145. At that he smiles, he stands up, he goes, only a Jersey boy knows how to talk like that. Comes over and gives me a big bear hug. I said, bruce, where are you from? He said, Exit 2. I said, Exit 2. Screw you. That's Delaware. That's not even New Jersey.

[Sean]

What. What is exit two? Kate May is exit one.

[Michael Uslan]

Pennsauken.

[Sean]

Pen. That's okay. Pen socket. That. That is super funny.

[Michael Uslan]

He got it. You know, it's this attitude. We both respected each other.

[Sean]

That is super fun.

[Michael Uslan]

I think that's part of it.

[Sean]

Yeah, absolutely. So let's throw up. Just shadow number nine real quick. I know we had it so something my peripheral before just so we can have that on the screen and get a quick description if we don't mind Tank. And as we are sourcing back to shadow number nine. So we're not yet at. Here we go. So this is. I can't see. Is that over the night? Did it end up being over Niagara Falls?

[Michael Uslan]

Yeah, that's Niagara Falls in the background. The light. That's where it all started.

[Sean]

And the shadow was. Was a great radio show. Is that right?

[Michael Uslan]

Yes, originally a radio show in a pulp magazine created in 1931.

[Sean]

That's super cool. I mean there's so much that I'm sure everyone does just like curiosity. When were comics originated? Do you. Are you present to that? Like what. What's considered to be the first American comic book? Or around what time frame, if you happen to know Michael?

[Michael Uslan]

Well, there's different ways historically you can answer this question, but I'll say the modern day version of the comic book took place in the mid-30s when a couple of brilliant guys decided to take a newspaper comic strip, fold it in half, fold it again, fold it again, staple it, cut it, put a 10 cent price sticker on it, and then drop them off at a bunch of little outlets around Manhattan. And went back the next week and found they were all sold out. And he said, oh, this may be something. And then the next major step forward was when a gentleman named major Malcolm Wheeler Nicholson formed a little company, put out a comic book called New Fun Comics in 1935. And that company ultimately became DC Comics, joined in 1939 by Timely Comics, which would later become Marvel Comics. And it was the need for superheroes as we were approaching World War II. That's what really propelled the comic book industry. Superman was created in Action Comics 1, June 1938. And that opened up the floodgates. Batman, May 39. Then came Wonder Woman, Human Torch, Submariner, Captain Marvel. And it just exploded from there.

[Sean]

And Captain America was that three.

[Michael Uslan]

Captain America was December 1941. How's that for a coincidence?

[Sean]

There we go.

[Michael Uslan]

Created by Joe Simon and Jack Kirby. They were two young Jewish men who were keenly aware of what was happening in Germany with Hitler, what was happening in Europe, and wanted to bring it to the attention of the United States, which up until that point, were really turning their backs on it. They were really not trying to acknowledge it. They were trying to appease a lot of people and countries. And on the COVID of Captain America 1, there's Captain America slugging Adolf Hitler in the jaw.

[Sean]

Let's pull that up. Let's throw that up on the screen. Captain America slugging Adolf Hitler in face. Captain America one. That is unbelievable. The power of story, the power of heroic, unique identity. Is this landing? Okay, you need your heroic, unique identity. You're not an accountant. You're not an attorney. You're not a financial service provider. And if you are, you are forgotten before you're done with the sentence of what you do. That is not what you do unless you choose it. And that will be a very foolish choice. About as foolish as leaving Batman on surfboards with spray shark repellent. If that is landing, say yes. And being the goofball comic. That is not your answer. Being the hero. If you hear that, say us. So, please. Now this vision of film is present, and where do we go?

[Michael Uslan]

Now come all the setbacks. Okay, 372 resumes went out. I got two job offers.

[Sean]

Oops, sorry. What is that?

[Michael Uslan]

Out of 372 resumes, I got two job offers.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Michael Uslan]

One was to go to work for a talent agency in New York, Work in their mailroom. They were willing to pay me $95 a week. I would have to relocate on my own dime from Indiana to New York. Nancy and I planned on getting married after we graduated. I didn't think the two of us could live comfortably on $95 a week in New York City. Second offer from Los Angeles, producer of a lot of these big movies like Earthquake and Roller Coaster and some of the disaster films, said, I'll make you a production assistant. You'll go for coffee, you'll do a lot of. Back then we called it xeroxing. Move to LA on your own dime, and I'll start you at $95 a week. Plan B. Always have a plan B. And C and D.

[Sean]

Let's hear for that.

[Michael Uslan]

You never know about the twists and turns of life. So Plan B for me, reluctantly, bitterly, I went to law school. The Vietnam War was still on. If I went to law school, I continued to get my 2s deferment from the draft, and I didn't want to be there, but that's where I was. And it turns out I don't think I could be doing what I'm doing today if I hadn't gone down that path that I didn't want to go down, because I got out of law school and I had no job prospects. I wasn't making any headway.

[Sean]

And where'd you go to law school, Michael?

[Michael Uslan]

Indiana.

[Sean]

Oh, cool.

[Michael Uslan]

Stayed in Indiana for the whole time. Got my master's and my doctorate there. And so Nancy and I moved back to my parents home. We were living in the bedroom that I grew up in, and we were there for months. I was working construction on my dad's crew while I was trying to go for interviews in New York. Nothing was happening. I remember the one day I just teared up. I said, I'm going to be working for my dad the rest of my life. This is going nowhere. And it was at that moment in time where I got a call from United Artists, which was a major motion picture studio, the only one based in New York City. And they said, we have a legal business affairs job. Open. The head of IT saw your resume and would like you to come in. Now, what they didn't know is I had two resumes. One was just mentioning about legal and how I had done a legal paper. Never mentioned I wrote comic books or anything. And the other one never mentioned I went to law school. So I was sending two resumes to each movie and TV company. One to legal and business affairs, and then one to production and programming.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Michael Uslan]

So I was getting two job interviews at the same company. Wow. I had this one thing in la. It was my first job interview. I pull into CBS Television City in Hollywood, and I have a meeting with the head of legal and business affairs. I'm in A three piece suit with an attache case. I have a rented Ford Pinto, and I go running across the parking lot, up the steps, down the hall. There was a receptionist there, clearly from New York. And I didn't know that they kept people waiting for meetings. I had no idea. So he kept me waiting for like 40 minutes before he would see me. And I had my next interview with the head of programming at cbs. And I was running right into it. So I finally got up, I had my interview with the lawyer, and I look at my watch. I've got six minutes before my meeting is supposed to begin with the programming person at cbs. I run down the hall, past that woman, run down the steps, run across the parking lot, get in the backseat of the Ford Pinto, and I change my clothes. I put on jeans, a T shirt, a Steven Spielberg type baseball hat. I went back, rushing back in. I go up to the same receptionist. I said, I'm here for the programming meeting and pardon my French. But she looks at me, she goes, you got balls, kid.

[Sean]

A quick superhero costume change.

[Michael Uslan]

What I'm hearing backstage, there was no phone booth around. What could do. Yes.

[Sean]

So now what year are we in?

[Michael Uslan]

We are in 76. Okay, 1976.

[Sean]

So it'll still be correct. It's three more years until you.

[Michael Uslan]

I finished law school working for my dad and then I get the call from United Artists. So I go up to ua, they offer me a job. I really don't want a legal business job, but it's all I got on the plate. So I said, okay. I said to Nancy, I'm going to do this for no more than four years as if it's graduate school. At the end of four years, I'm going to quit. I'm going to try to learn everything I can and network like mad. But at the end of four years, I am not going to be trapped into being a lawyer for the rest of my life. I. I am not going to wind up doing people's wills and estates and taxes. I will. At the end of four years, I'll either be writing and producing movies, TV and animation, or I'll be delivering pizza for Domino's, but I will not be trapped being a lawyer. And that was. And plan B worked. Plan B worked. They put me in charge. I learned so much. They put me in charge of the legal business, financial affairs of the first three Rocky movies.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Michael Uslan]

A beautiful movie, if you've never seen it, called Black Stallion.

[Sean]

Yes. Yeah.

[Michael Uslan]

A movie that's on everybody's top 10 list of all time called Raging Bull.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Michael Uslan]

And for two and a half years of my life, a movie you've probably all heard of called Apocalypse Now.

[Sean]

Oh, my God.

[Michael Uslan]

And that was a crisis every day of my life for two and a half years.

[Sean]

So Charlie Sheen was here and is that. Is it. Am I correct that at some point Martin Sheen was wandering naked through the streets of the Philippines in Apocalypse Now? Did that actually happen or no?

[Michael Uslan]

Well, what happened? Martin Sheen and Marlon Brando were the two stars of the picture. And this was taking place in the Philippines. They build all these sets. They're ready to go. And Martin Sheen had a heart attack. So everybody had to stop and wait for him to recover. Then a typhoon comes through and destroys all the sets. All the sets have to be rebuilt. And that's just the beginning of that story.

[Sean]

Wow. Charlie Sheen said two days ago that they began to call it Apocalypse Never like in terms of their family. And he was living in the Philippines. So all this amazingness. And what about these Batman rights?

[Michael Uslan]

So I was coming up past my three year mark at United Artists. I knew I had my next vow that I had made that I was going to quit by year four. So I went back to the president of DC Comics, the man who mentored me into DC when I was teaching the course. His name was Sol Harrison. A wonderful man. I said, sol, I now have the credentials. I've worked at United Artists now for over three years. I know how to do this. I want to buy the rights to Batman and go out and make dark and serious Batman movies and show the world that Batman is not a pot bellied, funny, pow, zap, wham. Guy Saul looked at me. Did you ever see the poster for Home Alone? He looked at me like that. He goes, michael, for God's sake, don't do this. He said, don't you understand that since Batman went off the air in television, the brand is as dead as a dodo? He said, nobody's interested in Batman anymore. I said, yeah, but Sol, nobody's ever seen a dark and serious comic book superhero movie before that. This is going to be like a new form of entertainment. He said, is there any way I can talk you out of this crazy idea? I said, no. So he said, all right, come on in. And that began a six month negotiation that gave me six months to find the right partner who had been through the loop on this, who was a legend in the movie business. He was my dad's age. His name was Benjamin Melnicker. And we raised money privately. And all the people who put up the money. None of them knew a thing about Batman. They put their money on me. Not on Batman. And on October 3, 1979, we signed the piece of paper. I now bought the rights to Batman. I put it in my back pocket.

[Sean]

And is it okay to ask what did that cost?

[Michael Uslan]

A lot. Yeah, a whole hell of a lot. I'm still a kid in my 20s. How does a kid in his 20s, by the way? It's a Batman. I mean, today, impossible. Nobody could even envision or imagine it. I flew out to Hollywood with Batman in my back pocket. Said, this is gonna be a piece of cake. Everybody's gonna see the chance for sequels and animation and toys and games. I was turned down by every single studio in Hollywood. They told me I was crazy. They said this was the worst idea they ever heard. They said, you can't make serious comic book movies. You can't do dark superheroes. You can't make a movie out of an old TV series. Nobody's ever done that. And as a result, folks, from the day I bought the rights to Batman till I could finally get our first movie made, took me 10 years.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Michael Uslan]

10 years of rejection. 10 years where Nancy and I did not know how we were going to pay next week's bills. Ten years of figuring out how I keep a roof over our head and food on the table. When I bought the rights to Batman, Nancy was six months pregnant.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Michael Uslan]

And we were building our first house. And I just quit United Artists at the. Let's see, it was two months after our son was born. Giving up our medical plan, our dental plan, my pension, and my bonus.

[Sean]

Oh, my God.

[Michael Uslan]

Because I had a great support system in my wife, Nancy, in my parents, in her parents. And you can't do it alone. You've got to have a support system, people.

[Sean]

And what do we have up here in the screen team? What's up there?

[Michael Uslan]

Oh, I know her.

[Sean]

That's Nancy.

[Michael Uslan]

That's Nancy.

[Sean]

That's amazing. Here for Nancy. Amazing.

[Michael Uslan]

So if I can inject a couple of important things you need to know about my wife. We met first day freshman year at Indiana. She was not even unpacked when we went out for the first time. And for four years, everyone said, you don't fall in love with the first person you set your eyes on in college. It doesn't happen. We now have been married 52 years.

[Sean]

Amazing.

[Michael Uslan]

And yes, it's a Hollywood record. But here's what you need to know about my wife. She does the important work in the family. Nancy has an ngo, a Nonprofit Boots on the ground in Rwanda. She has personally set up programs of literacy, teaching kids English and critical thinking. She's right now financed and is building her ninth clean water project in Rwanda that's impacting the lives of hundreds of thousands of people. She started a vision care program, which she saw no kid in Rwanda had a pair of glasses and found that there was no eye care outside of the capital. She is now a consultant to the United Nations.

[Sean]

Oh, my God.

[Michael Uslan]

And her first children's book was published recently by McMillan. So.

[Sean]

Wow. Holy. Nancy Edge is a small token of my gratitude. I'd like to, for my Callagh Christian foundation, make a donation of $25,000 to Nancy's Angelic thank you much. As a thank you small token of the impact. And again, I'm very confident this is the beginning, not the end for sure. So thank you, and the team will handle that. So you acquire the rights. It is 10 years of all this insanity. So how do you finally get a yes? Think about where you were 10 years ago. Imagine 10 years of no. And Nancy's hanging in there, and their families hang in there, and they're staying by Michael's side to pursue this dream. And they chose very, very wisely. So how do we get a yes? What happens?

[Michael Uslan]

Two steps in this process. Number one, everything changed in 1986 when a young genius named Tim Burton came into our lives. Here was a young Disney animator, and Warner Brothers said, we're setting up a screening of the fine cut of a movie this kid's done for us. You gotta see it and tell us what you think. It was called Pee Wee's Big Adventure. And I came out and I said, I have never seen more creative combination of direction and art direction in my life. I'd love to meet him. And I had three lunches with Tim. By the end of the third lunch, I knew this was the guy. And here's how he made this all happen, how he revolutionized Hollywood and the world culture's perception of comic books and superheroes. And here's how he did it. I always call it the big idea, Tim Burton's big idea. He said to me this one particular day, if we are going to make the first ever serious comic book superhero movie, this movie cannot be about Batman. And I just wanted to fall to pieces in the ground. I said, what are you talking about? He said, this movie has to be about Bruce Wayne. Ah. We have to show a portrayal of Bruce Wayne so driven, so obsessed to the point of being psychotic, that people around the world who have never read a comic book before will say, oh, yeah, that's a guy who would get dressed up as a bat and go fighting a guy who looks like the Joker. And Tim's corollary to that was from the opening frames of the movie. Gotham City had to become the third most important character of the film because audiences had to suspend their disbelief and believe in Gotham City before they could believe in all of this. So 86 was the turning point. But then I had a problem. I had no money left. I had been doing everything I could, trying everything. I was in debt, and it looked like I could not make it any further. Now I talk about support systems. Nancy's father, who is a founder of the Cincinnati Eye Institute, flew out to New Jersey. He sat me down. He goes, you know, Michael, this is why you went to law school, so you would have something to fall back on if things didn't work out. He said, you've tried your hardest. That's the measure of a person's success. Not what you've achieved, but by how hard you've tried. So you can't feel like you're a failure. But now it's time that you gave up your dream and became a lawyer and took care of your family. And I said, I understand that and I'm prepared to do it. It's just so frustrating because I'm so close. While we're waiting for Batman, I've been developing an animated series and. And I've got such interest in it, and we're making such progress. And he goes, let me ask you a question. He said, how long do you think it would be before you have in your hands not a deal, not a contract, not a promise, but a check for six figures. How long do you actually think that would take you? He said, and think carefully. I said, five months. He said, five months? I said, yes. He said, all right, I'm gonna pay all your bills for the next five months. But at 6pm five months from today, if you do not have a check for six figures in your hand, you agree you will have given it your best shot and you will go be a lawyer and be content with that. I thanked him profusely. For the next five months, I was working 20 hour days all the time. And I was pushing on the animated series. Pushing. And all the guys who were working on it with me at Columbia Television and an animation studio called Deke, they knew about the pressure I was under. Turns out that they got all the contracts signed for it. They got the commitment from the different Broadcast networks. And they held back the contract and the check until the last day. And sometime between noon and 3pm a FedEx truck pulled up in front of our house.

[Sean]

Come on.

[Michael Uslan]

And there were the signed. There were the signed contracts and a check for six figures. I was able to pay back my father in law and. And that gave me enough money to get to Batman. So sometimes you can't do it alone. You need a guardian angel. You need a support system. I had mine.

[Sean]

Dude, like again, look at this. No, Nobody else has had standing ovations. This is unbelievable. Crazy. How is this not a movie? How are you not a movie? Right, well. Well, right.

[Michael Uslan]

I am happy to announce, first of all, I wrote my memoir. It's called the boy who loved Batman. Available Stanley always said, michael, get in a plug whenever you can. Available through barnesandnoble.com and Amazon. I also recorded the Audible book version of it, if you don't want to read.

[Sean]

Yes.

[Michael Uslan]

And I'm proud to tell you that Nederland or worldwide, which own about half the Broadway theaters, theaters in London and all over, they are turning my memoir into a Broadway play.

[Sean]

Unbelievable. Unbelievable, dude.

[Michael Uslan]

We did a workshop. We opened in Tampa, Florida at the Stras center for the Performing Arts for six weeks. We got a standing ovation at every performance. And they are now looking for an A list star to play me and my wife Nancy. And the goal is within the next year or so to open on Broadway, followed by London.

[Sean]

Unbelievable, dude. Just the guy. As a son of a stone nation from the Jersey shore, like, this is what we got going on. Yes. So, okay, so. And what was the animated series?

[Michael Uslan]

Dinosaucers Now. You never heard of it? We did 65 half hours in syndicated TV. My son David, when he was little, there were two things he loved. Outer space and dinosaurs. And I thought, gee, that's just like me when I was growing up. In fact, I think every kid loves outer space and dinosaurs. So. So I thought, how can I combine dinosaurs in outer space? And I have my best thinking, creative thinking when I'm shaving. So I was like, dinosaurs. Outer space. Dinosaurs. Dinosaurs. And I got the name and then I worked up backwards from there and created this TV series about dinosaurs from outer space who come to earth, meet four kids, two of whom were my kids, and. And they take them around and show them what earth and humans are like. And the evil tyrannos follow. And it was a great series. We had a lot of fun.

[Sean]

That's awesome. Awesome. So now the first Batman movie, I saw it in its opening at the Ten Plex in Paramus, New Jersey. No longer there. It was the first multiplex cinema that I ever experienced. And it was. It was. Tears came down my face. I couldn't have been more thrilled and elated to experience all of this. Jack Nicholson as the Joker. The depth of it. People actually died. People had chemicals being thrown in faces and dropped into vats and all sorts of incredible things. How did you feel about the movie?

[Michael Uslan]

When the movie was completed, there was a special screening for a group of us. And my partner Ben turned to me. We had to go into the theater through heavy velour black curtains. And he stopped me. He goes, michael, you're going to go through these curtains right now. You're going to come out two hours later and your life is going to be changed. And he was right about that. It changed the course of my whole life. What I thought would be a mission, a job turned into a career, and then basically my entire life. I want to tell you about when we opened. Right before we opened, I had a special premier screening for family and friends in New York City. And I got to speak for about 10 minutes or so before then. When I was in seventh and eighth grades at Ocean Township School, I had two English teachers, Mrs. Stiller and then Mrs. Friedman. It was Mrs. Stiller in seventh grade who told me I had a creative ability and that I needed to believe in myself as a creative writer. And she thought that I had the ability that I could use this as an adult in my work. And then she passed me off to her sister in law, Mrs. Friedman, who had a red pen. She was the roughest, toughest teacher you could imagine. At the end of the first day of English in eighth grade, she asked me to stay and I went up to her desk and she said, Michael, Mrs. Stiller told me about you and she showed me your portfolio of your creative work. I think she's right, and I have very high standards in this class. But if you really, truly want to become a creative writer, it's more than just having ideas. Creative ideas. Anybody can have creative ideas. You would need to become a master of your craft of writing. If you are willing, I am going to then hold you to a higher standard than anybody else. I am going to be as tough as possible. You're going to learn vocabulary. You're going to read so much. You're going to learn how to diagram sentences and understand structure. And she was as tough as nails for me. So the night of the Batman Premiere, I found Mrs. Stiller and Mrs. Friedman and I think that Mrs. Friedman was in Florida. I can't remember where Mrs. Stiller was, but I brought them up and I sent a limousine to bring them to my premiere. And as I spoke, I said, for those of you who don't believe there are superheroes in real life, you've never met a great teacher. I said, there would be no Batman here tonight. There would be nothing here tonight if it wasn't for two great teachers that changed my life. And I said, now if you ask them, they will say they've gotten everything they could want out of life from teaching their generation of students. I said, but there's one thing I know they've never gotten, and that's a standing ovation. And they got a standing ovation that night.

[Sean]

Now, dude. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Dude. Crazy. The power of story. Emotional. Energetic. Transference. Incredible. So. And that's what actualizers are. He was consulted, he was trained, he was coached. And what was the word that they told him he had to have and achieve? Say it one more time. That's our word. A whole bunch more movies. And what are your rights? And just so that the room knows. And how would they appropriately describe your relationship to Batman in the cinematic world?

[Michael Uslan]

I'm his godfather. So I'll tell you. I'll sum it up in a story we were down to. Ben Melnicker and I were down to pitching to the final studio. All studios had rejected it. Columbia was the last student studio. So we go into pitch Columbia and it's this dapper dressed, silver haired guy in. He'd been at the studio for years and years and years. And I pitched my heart out for a dark and serious Batman. And at the end of it, he turns to me and Ben and he goes, michael, you're out of your mind. Batman will never be a successful movie because our movie Annie has not done well. I said, wait a minute, are you talking about the little red headed girl from Broadway that sings the song tomorrow? He says, yeah. I go, well, what does that have to do with Batman? Oh, come on, Michael. They're both out of the funny pages. Nobody wants to pay money to see a cartoon character walk and talk.

[Sean]

Oh my God.

[Michael Uslan]

And with that he then said, look, I'll tell you what, I will consider making a Batman movie. But it's gotta be that pot bellied, funny, pow, zap wham guy, because that's all audiences will remember and love. And I looked at him and I said, no. And with that, he brought his chair, leaned into me and he said, son, when people call Me, son. I know I'm in trouble, son. Better to have a movie made than no movie at all. And I said, no. That was the end of the meeting. We're now on a park bench sitting on the lot of the studio. My head is down, and Ben's sitting next to me. And he goes, you know, Michael, don't you think it was ironic that our last no came from you? He said, you know what that makes you? I said, I know, Ben. I'm an idiot. He says, oh, no. You have this vision for Batman that you believe respects the integrity of his creators. You defend Batman. You are protecting Batman. You are Batman's Batman. And that's my role.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Michael Uslan]

And to get the plug in, that's the name of volume two of my memoir.

[Sean]

So what happens? How does. How does that. How do you find the actual making of the movie? Who says yes?

[Michael Uslan]

Ben said, you know, I just got word that Casablanca Records, which were the kings of disco back in the day, Donna Summer and all of those, they just got an influx of money from polygram in Europe, and they're going to open up a film division. The guy in charge of it, he said, Ben knew from 1969. He said, he's much younger than all of the studio people we've pitch to. He's a lot more hip. He may get it. So he got Peter Goober on the phone at Casablanca Records, and he put me on the phone, and I pitched it over the phone from New York, and Peter said, I love this idea.

[Sean]

Like, it. Just pause for a quick sec. So Peter Goober, you guys have ever heard of Tony Robbins platinum partnership? Peter Goober is the inspiration for Tony Robbins platinum partnership. Peter Goober became great friends with Tony Robbins and invited him into a group that they called the Scorpions. And they traveled and went places together and invited Tony in. He felt like he didn't belong. He was 32 at the time when he was first invited, and he had to put up, like, 30 grand for the trip. And they were going all over Asia flying private. And that was the genesis of the concept, the platinum partnership. And Tony and Peter Guber are still incredibly great friends this day. They own interest in professional sports teams together, et cetera, et cetera. So, you know, Peter Gruber, back to you, please.

[Michael Uslan]

So it was Peter and his partner, Neil Bogart, and we went out and did an official pitch in front of them, and they said, look, we'll make this. We have an output deal now. We're going to make movies through Universal. It'll be a Universal Picture and the. Then you can imagine what happened. Casablanca faded away. Polygram Pictures came into play. There was another company for a second and a half called the Boardwalk Company. Then there was Universal, then Filmways, then 20th Century Fox. Then finally Warner Brothers came into the picture as everybody else kind of disappeared. But it was a ten year process.

[Sean]

Unbelievable. So then the original Batman movie is a massive success, critically acclaimed Jack Lichens and the Joker. And then there was a number of other movies that we worked through and Danny DeVito's the Penguin. And we have Val Kilmer and George Clooney as Batman, arnold Schwarzenegger as Mr. Freeze. You know, the. Jim Carrey is the Riddler. So we have that sequencing of movies, if we could, because we are finally running a little bit short on time. How does that all sort of transpire? What does that mean to you? And then we'll jump into Christopher Nolan and the next step in the process. But what does those years mean and look like? And how is that all for you, Michael?

[Michael Uslan]

All right, well, I'll start out with. It was. It was Memorial day weekend of 1980, and I'm in New York getting ready to get on the bus back home to New Jersey. I got the afternoon paper, the Post. I open it up to the movie section, and there I see two big movies are premiering. The Empire Strikes Back and another movie, a horror movie called the Shining. And I see this picture of Jack Nicholson for the first time. You know, the here's Johnny shot where he's like peering maniacally around a corner. I go, oh, my God, this is the only actor who could play the Joker. I tore the picture out. When I got home, I ran to my desk, I took white out and I whited out Jack's face. I took a red pen and I did his lips. I did a Magic Marker, I did his hair. And that's what I showed to everyone connected to Batman. I said, nicholson, he's the only one who could play the Joker.

[Sean]

It's unbelievable.

[Michael Uslan]

When he was hired, it was the greatest day of my career to that point. Absolutely amazing.

[Sean]

Unbelievable. And for those that don't know the Riddler, I mean, I'm sorry. The Joker is a deeply, deeply disturbed villain, like. And the complexity of his relationship with Batman, which is told in a litany of different ways over the course of the comics and movies. And Michael can speak into this a thousand times more. Masked with an eye. But in the simplest essence, there is this incredible interdependence where the Joker loves Batman, despises Batman, Needs Batman tells Batman this continuously. And Batman has this element of integrity and humanity at the foundational core that prevents him from ever killing the Joker. And there's this dance that goes on into eternity of the Joker continuing to come back and back and back and back again. And this dance continues forever. And so what I'm hearing you say, Michael, is that Jack Nicholson in this amazing moment of the Shining, which my dad took me to see at 10 years old, my dad made a lot of like very poor movie decisions. He took me to see Count Yorga when I was three in the movies and thought it was child appropriate. And recently, and my dad was in the hospital for fun energy, I asked our act eye is Count Yorga appropriate for a 3 year old? And the first sentence was Count Yorga is completely and totally inappropriate for a three year old was the headline sentence. But what I'm hearing you say is Jack Nicholson in this sense of derangement of the character in the Shining could not have been. No other human in acting could possibly have embodied the derangement of the Joker like that. Am I hearing correctly?

[Michael Uslan]

Yeah. And I mentioned the Joker specifically. First of all, in 1989 90, the motion picture academy was mostly a bunch of well to do white haired, white guys who were like the Dean at Indiana that I pitched to looking down their noses at comic books. There is no way back then the Academy would vote for Jack Nicholson in a comic book movie as best actor. He should have, had he been in it in more recent times, he, he would have won the Oscar for that. When Chris Nolan came along. Heath Ledger plays the Joker. Heath Ledger wins the Oscar for it. Then when Todd Phillips comes along and does Joker, Joaquin Phoenix wins the Oscar for Joker. We really should have had three times where actors won the Oscar for Joker. But that's the bridge for me from one filmmaker to another filmmaker to another filmmaker.

[Sean]

Unbelievable. And so that run, then we're going to show a couple clips from the we saw the surfing and pow wap, bam. Then we'll take a look at the Dark Knight in a minute. But just that period of the. Which by the way, I love all those movies because every time Batman's on the screen, I love him. I know some love some of those movies more than others love them. But just for you, if we can encapsulate that grouping of the Danny DeVito penguin version, Mr. Freeze, Riddler as Jim Carrey. What did that period mean to you and to Batman?

[Michael Uslan]

To me, as a comic book geek, these movies represent different eras of the comic book version of Batman. Tim Burton's Batman was really the Batman of 1939 into 1940, 40 before Robin, and it was much darker. And he captured that really well. When you look at what dear Joel Schumacher did with Batman Forever, it was more the Batman of the late 40s and into the 50s. Batman and Robin punning their way against a rogues gallery of supervillains hopping on giant typewriter keys. And they captured that era. The Clooney thing was the TV show redux.

[Sean]

I'm hearing your deep, abiding love for it.

[Michael Uslan]

And with Val Kilmer, I thought he was more like the Batman of the comic books of the 1990s. He was a deeply mysterious and dark romantic version of Bruce Wayne. And I thought very effective. To me, it evoked Frank Langella's Dracula, which he did on Broadway and in a film that showed that villainy could be romanticized and be attractive.

[Sean]

Yeah, I saw Frank Langella as Dracula at Montclair State University at one point. It was unbelievable. Amazing.

[Michael Uslan]

Really great. A Bayonne boy, by the way, Frank Langella.

[Sean]

Amazing. Can we hit Bane, Batman, in their initial interaction in the Dark Knight Rises. Can we hit that team?

[Michael Uslan]

Oh, yes. I was wondering what would break first. Your spirit.

[Sean]

Oh.

[Michael Uslan]

Your body.

[Sean]

That is not shark repellent on a surf wave. And pow. Whap, Bam. Thank you.

[Michael Uslan]

Well, as Bain said.

[Sean]

So when this happened and just in all I loved all the Batman movies prior and I still ached for this. And this is the third of the trilogy. And as Michael and I were chatting the Green Room, he said, this is really one movie in three acts. Batman Begins, Dark Knight, Dark Knight Rises. And if you have never seen Batman Begins and you only relate to the Dark Knight as like this incredible movie. And there's other movies around that time, it's one story. And Batman Begins contextualizes the Dark Knight and the Dark Knight Rises. The Dark Knight Rises completes the Dark Knight. And these are just absolutely masterful. And I think where critics get it wrong sometimes, and these were all critically, I mean acclaimed for sure. But is to. And people following the words of critics is just so often missing the point of things. And these movies were received masterfully. But to compare one to the other, I think it's just a mistake. It's just one thing. Right. Is what it is. And so the completion of Dark Knight Rises, Batman Begins. Amazing. And when I saw Batman Begins, the level of gratitude I had Michael and everyone for this is who I knew Batman to be. And I loved the 1989 Batman with Jack Nicholson. I mean, loved I loved all those movies, but this is from my heart, my soul, my being. This is Batman. Yeah. And so thank you, Michael, for that. From my heart. Right.

[Michael Uslan]

I appreciate that, Sean. Let me mention two things about Christopher Nolan's Batman movies. Number one is when Chris came aboard, he had to restore the darkness and dignity to Batman after Batman and Robin. And he went about it just like Tim Burton had to, but 180 degrees different. He was not gonna build Gotham City. We actually built five square city blocks of Gotham City on the back lot of Pinewood Studios. He was not gonna do that. He wanted to make this movie feel real. He wanted to convince you that Batman could be real today, the Joker could be real today. And he had about five challenges to try to overcome. So number one, how do you prove that Gotham City could be real? He didn't shoot it in New York, where as soon as you see Central park or the Statue of Liberty, you go, oh, it's New York. And it breaks your sense of disbelief. So he chose Chicago. You take two buildings out of the skyline of Chicago and people around the world cannot identify the city. And you still have Lower Wacker Drive and a lot of interesting places where I watched him actually flip a semi truck. So he made Gotham City real. Then he had to make you believe Bruce Wayne could be real. Today. A young man struggling post traumatic stress syndrome on a journey of personal discovery almost like Lost Horizon, and through the casting of Christian Bale, made us all believe that that could really happen to a person today. Then he had to make you believe the Joker could be real. And this was his testament to 911 and the aftermath of 911 and the joker was conceived as a modern day terrorist. Someone who places no value whatsoever on human life. And you fear him. He was scary and he was real. Unfortunately, the last thing which was the biggest challenge was how's he going to convince all of you all this tech, all the. All these gadgets could be real. That was a big challenge. He hired Morgan Freeman to tell you it was real. And if Morgan Freeman says something's true, by God, it's true.

[Sean]

Yes. Amazing. For those who haven't seen, that's Lucius Fox is the character and he works in Wayne Enterprises. And they were developing so much of this for military contracting companies and the military. And then it went into a side project and it was revived by Lucius Fox as he began to sense what was requested by Bruce Wayne, who went away. And in the movie, in the story Batman, Bruce Wayne, Christian Bale, as playing Bruce Wayne, loses himself and he Goes traveling around the world and to find his heart, his soul, his being. He's robbing, stealing. He's trying to learn what criminals look like and decide what he's going to be. He finds this group called the League of Shadows and they take him in to train him, to recreate him, to find, to channel this energy. But then they were going to violate the very principle that Batman wouldn't. And they killed the bad. They killed who they decided were bad. And they were judge, jury, executioner. And these people who trained and developed Bruce Wayne, the League of Shadows asked him in their final step, to kill someone who had stolen. And in front of all of the people that had made him what he had become, he had to now fight them. And that is why Batman Begins is such an unbelievable movie, film, story. And it's your story. It's what we're doing here. At least you can choose to decide that, because I am Batman. That's Batman. You're Batman. Or Wonder Woman or any of these characters. If Wonder Woman has some superpowers, this is real. If you decided this. And the breaking of the back by Bane, that's your fear of picking up the phone. That's the person who mocks you and says you think you know what you're talking about. That's what Michael faced over and over. That's why you stood. Because he's living. The living embodiment of. Of Bruce Wayne into Batman integrity and mastery. He was just a kid from Jersey who had masterful teachers who gave him. We say this, Michael, we teach this. This is not made for you today. You just are bringing forward what we teach all the time. They've heard me say these things a thousand times. I'm not saying it to the prism of you as example. Influence is the only human attainable superpower. That's his superpower. That's your superpower. And then self mastery comes in. When we face the Joker, face Bane, most often inside of our own head. And then we create the fiction that the other person saying no to you is actually trying to kill you and destroy you and break your back, which is a complete joke. And lie. And our work here is to deal with truth. And what I just spoke is the truth. And the truth is it's all a fiction. That's not the fiction. The crap we make up about why we don't send out 370 letters when it could take us two hours or pick up the phone and. Cause yes, with people and the right yeses. That's the truth. If you feel that truth in your heart, and you see the possibility available for you, say, yes, brother, thank you for that. And then if we could, let's go with broken back. Your back is broken. Whether that's your bank account, your heart, your vision, possibility, what people say to you. So here lies you, buried in your worst nightmare. You're broken, you're lying there. You've tried to climb out. You tried to escape, and you can't. And you can't. And then you have your next actualizer who tells you you need to make the climb like the child did, without the rope, so you can find fear again. Because you need fear to drive you. And not fear of what's in front of you, but fear of that final day on your deathbed and having stood and sat and stood and sat in this room and heard this and heard this, and heard it all. And I promise you, and I want this for you. If you do not this day, may it haunt you on your deathbed. May you have that blessing of remembering this moment and to fear that every day from this day forward. And let's see how Bruce Wayne handled it, please. Thank you, Sam.

[Michael Uslan]

It. The.

[Sean]

You rose from Michael because you experienced him doing that in his life story. The hopeless in this prison, this hell, are all the humans on earth who suffer blind, unable to see, and are seeking you to light their way as Michael has lit the way here today. And when you rise, all of these people would have laughed and mocked and laughed and mocked, and they roared and cheered, as we always do, for the rise. You rose and cheered, but with great respect, almost all of you would have laughed at Michael in 1970s, 1 and 5 and 9 and 80 and 82 and 84 and 86. And the same people who laugh at you laughed at him and laughed at me. The difference is, like Bruce Wayne, Michael rose. And you can too. Whether it's in money scaling or impact overall, that you chose the back right corner on day one. If you are recommitted to that truth, say us, okay, and sir, when you watch that, how does that feel for you and what's present, please.

[Michael Uslan]

It's so powerful. You know, over the years, there's one scene from Dark Knight that people keep talking about and asking me about and commenting on, telling me how this particular scene impacted them. It's a scene that takes place on a ship and people are on the ship and they are given a moral choice. Do they press this button and blow up the other ship filled with people in order to save themselves or do they not? And what People tell me is when this scene comes up and what is it? It's about, what do you do when you have to make a moral choice and your choices are bad and worse? And they tell me, in the darkness of the movie theater, by themselves, no matter who they were with or who they were around, they had to come to terms and think what they would do in that situation. Would they press that button or would they not? And I've had people approach me at screenings and all literally with tears in their eyes about the impact that that had on them introspectively. And for a comic book superhero movie to have that kind of thematic, that heft was really, really amazing. Yeah.

[Sean]

Okay, if I share this, then go back. And what I appreciate Michael, for me personally, most about that scene because, you know, one person, you know, posted about Charlie Sheen being here and he shouldn't be here and what's he doing here and all these. These terrible things did in that scene. It is the law enforcement people, the prison guards, the warden that wants to. Or the head of the prisoners that wants to blow up the other ship of the prisoners. And it is the prisoner and the guy struggling who takes it from him and says, I'll do what you can't. And what he thinks is the guy's going to press the button to blow up the other ship. This guy's a murderer. A prisoner that transports prisoners, and he takes it and he throws it overboard to make sure it doesn't happen. And what that means to me is the same conversation we had. But for the grace of God go I. Who are we to judge? And because someone has made a mistake, just like we've all made mistakes, it does not mean that they are still not heroic and capable of heroism. So I also thank you for that moment and that unbelievable power. And by the way, just for fun, I wasn't lying when I said I was a big fan. Thank you.

[Michael Uslan]

I'd like to offer one last story to you. At the time of Dark Knight, I got a call from a colonel at West Point, and he said, Mr. Uslin, every year the cadets of West Point have a Cadets Choice Award that they award to the one who they feel most embodies the code of honor of West Point. This year, they elected the Dark Knight Batman. And they said, would you possibly consider coming up here accepting the award and speaking to our cadets? Wow. So I said, absolutely. I would be honored to do that. So Nancy and I went up there, and it was magnificent. And they said, we're going to do this at lunchtime. And it's 4,500 cadets standing at attention at their tables. They bring me into this meeting hall or eating hall that was like a set from Harry Potter. The Vikings could have built this. It was stone coming to a V with a stone balcony and vaulted ceilings and flags. It was incredible. So as we're going up to the top for this, I said, you know, you never told me how long you'd like me to speak. Would you like a half hour? Do you want 45 minutes? Should it be Q and A? And he said, oh, I'm sorry. He goes, our lunchtime here is only 15 minutes, so we'd like you to speak for about two minutes. And, oh, we're on. And they present me with this award, which was amazing. And they hand me the microphone, and I'm looking at over 4,500 cadets standing at attention. And I just said, cadets of West Point, when Bruce Wayne was a boy, he saw his parents murdered before his eyes on a concrete altar of blood. At that moment in time, he sacrificed his childhood and made a vow. He promised that he would get the bad guy who did this, that he would get all the bad guys, even if he had to walk through hell for the rest of his life in order to honor that commitment. I said, in doing so, he became an urban warrior. He became a legend. He became a dark knight. I said, cadets of West Point, you are Batman.

[Sean]

Amen.

[Michael Uslan]

And at that moment in time, there erupted applause and yelps and they were on the chairs and it was like incredible. And it went on for a couple of minutes and it was just this amazing, amazing moment. But it was punctuated one week later when I opened my mail and I get a letter from a woman. And it went something like this. Dear Mr. Uslan, you don't know me. I am the mother of one of the cadets that you spoke to last week at West Point. In May, our kids are all going to Afghanistan and Iraq. This is serious business for our families. I don't know if you understand what you and Batman have done here, but right now our kids are walking across campus, high fiving each other, doing chest bumps with each other, going, I am Batman. You are Batman. She said, what you've done is give them a calling card. And in the years to come when they once again may encounter each other on some foreign battlefield, this will be their calling card. And I can't thank you enough for that. And if Batman and my journey have done nothing else, that for me meant everything.

[Sean]

Wow. Let's hear from Matthew Cent. One more time, let's hear from Michael Youssef. And I want to thank you. Let us Hear it for Mr. Michael Uslin. If. If this was remarkable for you, say yes. Remarkable. Masterful. Impactful. Say yes. And last thing I'll say, Michael, is people will die for their identity. And thank you for doing that for our nation. Thank you, all the people in this room. And thank you for giving. Batman his truest identity. And may this last forever. I thank you, Michael. Thank you. This is what Jersey produces right here.