The Miracle Mets: Mookie Wilson, Dwight Gooden, and the Power of Belief

Summary

Unblinded with Sean Callagy

Episode: The Miracle Mets: Mookie Wilson, Dwight Gooden, and the Power of Belief

Date: November 5, 2025

Guests: Mookie Wilson, Dwight Gooden
Host: Sean Callagy

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Main Theme

This episode is a heartfelt deep dive into the personal histories and shared triumphs of two iconic New York Mets: Mookie Wilson and Dwight Gooden. With Sean Callagy’s trademark combination of passion and vulnerability, the conversation goes far beyond baseball statistics, exploring themes of resilience, family legacy, and the transformative power of belief. Centered on the unforgettable 1986 World Series and the defining moments of Mookie and Doc’s careers, the narrative is tied together with Sean’s own story—highlighting the indelible, life-changing influence sports heroes can have on individuals and communities.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Early Lives and Personal Journeys

Mookie Wilson: Humble Beginnings

• Background: Grew up in a family of 12 in rural South Carolina, working the fields from a young age.
  • “Baseball is something that we did on the weekends because we were tired.” (03:01, Mookie Wilson)
• Education and Sports: First in his family to attend college, thanks to baseball.
• No Early Dreams of MLB: Did not imagine a professional career until his second year of college, when he was first drafted.
  • “Being a professional baseball player was never in my plan…until after I was drafted by the Dodgers out of Georgia College.” (04:12, Mookie Wilson)

Dwight Gooden: Baseball in the Blood

• Family Legacy: Youngest in a family from America’s, Georgia, raised in Tampa. His father was a passionate amateur coach who trained both Dwight and nephew Gary Sheffield.
  • “All we wanted to do is play baseball because my dad coached Little League, semi-pro, and girls softball.” (06:28, Dwight Gooden)
• Unique Childhood: Trained through repetition, drills without ball or bat, emphasizing mechanics—a “Karate Kid” method.
  • “He’ll take us to the park. No glove, no bat, no ball. …It wasn’t fun.” (07:19, Dwight Gooden)
• Local Baseball Culture: Came from a little league that produced 25 future major leaguers. Faced stiff competition even making the starting rotation in high school.

Path to the Major Leagues

Mookie’s Route

• Late Start: No formal coaching—learned the game from his dad, who played semi-pro and was big on mental approach rather than mechanics.
  • “Everything I learned in baseball, I learned from my dad.” (13:17, Mookie Wilson)
• Drafted by Dodgers, then Mets:
  • “I had no idea who the Mets were…The only game we could watch on TV was the Braves.” (15:01, Mookie Wilson)
  • Minor league life was challenging: “$500 a month before taxes…You had to work during the winter.” (16:16 & 16:26, Mookie Wilson)
• Major League Debut: Debuted for the Mets in 1980, became a regular by ‘81, experienced benching and the hardship of playing for a struggling club.

Doc’s Route

• High School Prodigy: Despite fierce competition, eventually broke into the starting rotation.
• Coaching & Mentorship: Cites both mechanics from his dad and the guidance of veteran teammates and coaches for his early success.
• Meteoric Rise: Drafted at 17, MLB Rookie of the Year at 19, quickest rise to stardom imaginable.
  • “My first year, I made the All-Star team…Nolan Ryan told me, ‘Man, you can really pitch.’” (29:13 & 29:25, Dwight Gooden)

Early Mets Years and the Culture of New York Baseball

• Hard Times: Both speak to the struggle of playing for the Mets when the team was bottom of the league and fans were restless.
  • “We were so bad…I wanted to go back to the minors.” (20:24, Mookie Wilson)
• Fan Pressure: Mookie’s first experience of getting booed, Sean’s lifelong refusal to boo.
  • “I guess I’ve never been booed before. That was part of it.” (23:39, Mookie Wilson)

Arrival of the Stars; Power of Team Culture

• Emergence of Strawberry and Gooden:

  • “When we finally saw Daryl [Strawberry]…I expected this big, husky guy. Is this what all the hoopla’s about?” (24:44, Mookie Wilson)
  • On Dwight Gooden’s first impression: “First thing I look for is mound presence. They always looked like they belong.” (27:41, Mookie Wilson)

• Doc’s All-Star Impact:

  • “Nolan Ryan told me…‘Man, you can really pitch…’” (29:25, Dwight Gooden)
  • Support from veterans: Mike Torrez and Craig Swan offering guidance and mentorship. (30:51, Dwight Gooden)

The Unforgettable 1986 Season and World Series

• 1986 Playoffs & World Series:
  • Astros Series: The tension and belief the Mets must win Game 6 to avoid facing “unhittable” Mike Scott.
    • “Game 6 was a must win…that was the only time in the whole year I felt threatened by another club.” (39:29, Mookie Wilson)
  • The Infamous Ball: Candid discussion of suspicions Mike Scott was scuffing the baseball, and how it got in the heads of the Mets.
    • “I was using the same ball…I couldn’t get it to do anything.” (37:29, Dwight Gooden)
• Game 6, World Series: Firsthand, emotional retelling by Sean and Mookie of perhaps the greatest moment in baseball history.
  • “The statistical improbability…of coming back with two outs, two strikes, no one on base…miracles happen.” (44:43, Host)
  • “That’s probably my best at bat I ever had.” (48:41, Mookie Wilson)
  • Detailed pitch-by-pitch account, the infamous wild pitch that tied the game, and then Mookie’s ground ball between Buckner’s legs.
    • “After that, it all happened so fast. …The ball was just bouncing. …When it went between his legs, I said those same words again.” (52:08 & 52:39, Mookie Wilson)

The Deeper Message: Resilience, Teamwork, and the Power of Belief

• No Lost Causes: How the 1986 Mets’ comeback is proof that nothing is ever truly over until it’s over.
  • “There is never a time where something is over.” (56:15, Host)
• The Role of Team: Picking each other up in times of doubt—everyone does their part, everyone has their low moments.
• Making the Impossible Possible:
  • “This wasn’t a podcast about Met history…This was a podcast about the impossible becoming possible, about miracles happening and…what everybody did along the way to make it happen.” (57:00, Host)
• Legacy, Redemption, and Impact:
  • Gooden on his struggles: “I try to take that mess now and make it a message…try to help someone else.” (59:22, Dwight Gooden)
  • Mookie: “Just let my work speak for me…Put yourself in a position to take advantage of any opportunity that might arise.” (61:06 & 62:21, Mookie Wilson)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Humble Beginnings:

  • “Pick cotton. I don’t wish that on anybody. Picking cotton is one of the worst things in the world.” (03:04, Mookie Wilson)

• On Unlikely Success:

  • “No one should have to bear that type of burden. But that was my spot. I had to go from ‘we’re probably not going to make it’ to ‘now I’ve got a hit.’” (47:39, Mookie Wilson)
  • “You always put yourself in a position to be the hero…you don’t want to be there, but that’s what you dream of.” (46:49, Mookie Wilson)

• On Mentorship and Legacy:

  • “I try to take that mess now and make it a message…try to help someone else.” (59:22, Dwight Gooden)
  • “Just let my work speak for me.” (61:06, Mookie Wilson)

• On Being Booed:

  • “Just because fans boo you, that doesn’t make ’em less fan. They’re still passionate about it.” (23:39, Mookie Wilson)

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Important Timestamps

• 03:01 – Mookie Wilson describes childhood farm labor and introduction to baseball
• 06:28 – Dwight Gooden’s family baseball culture in Tampa
• 13:17 – Mookie’s baseball education via his father, not formal coaching
• 16:16-16:26 – Minor League pay and struggles, need to work off-season
• 24:44–27:41 – Arrival and impressions of Strawberry and Gooden, assessing presence
• 29:13–29:25 – Dwight Gooden on Nolan Ryan’s All-Star compliment
• 39:29 – Mookie on Game 6 Astros series: “only time in the whole year I felt threatened”
• 44:43 – Sean on the improbability and miracle of the Game 6 comeback
• 47:39 – Mookie’s mindset stepping up for the biggest at-bat
• 48:41 – Mookie: “That’s probably my best at bat I ever had.”
• 52:08–52:39 – Mookie on the grounder through Buckner’s legs and his reaction
• 59:22 – Dwight Gooden’s reflection: “I try to take that mess now and make it a message…”
• 61:06 – Mookie Wilson on legacy: “Just let my work speak for me.”

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Episode Tone & Takeaways

The atmosphere is emotional, reverent, and warm—with moments of humor woven through the gravity of nostalgia and life lessons. Sean’s openness, frequent personal asides, and reverence toward his guests create a sense of intimate storytelling. Both Mookie and Dwight are candid, reflective, and grounded—making the episode not just a celebration of sports history but a universal tale about overcoming adversity, seizing the moment, and believing in miracles.

For listeners: You do not need to be a Mets fan (or even a baseball fan) to be moved by these stories. This is an episode about the bigger themes of resilience, mentorship, and the ripple effects of greatness. The legendary Game 6 is more than a sporting event: it’s an example of how greatness is achieved not alone, but together, and how belief can create miracles.

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Transcript

[Host/Interviewer]

The star that Dwight Gooden was, the impact, it just isn't like that today. So then, like when. When these guys were doing what they did, it was a different universe. You got, you know, Dwight doing that. Mookie is as popular as any method ever. People just love him. He's heart, soul, core of team. Dwight Gooden has, in my opinion. It's not statistically, but I believe as dominant a pitching season as anyone ever has. 1.53 RA, 24 and 4. I'm blind. No notes. This curveball would drop from hitter's head to his toes. It was the most insane thing to see. Are you kidding me? To my left, Mookie Wilson. To my right, Dwight Gooden. But this is not just about talking about professional athletes. Two people who've been involved in some most historic moments in baseball and sports history, period. This is something particularly special. It's my dad's 80th birthday. John Robert Callaghan. These amazing men, as we are rolling with the Sean Callagam on the podcast, came to the hospital, hanging out with my dad, tears flowing because. Not because they're athletes, not because they're celebrities, because these are people of heart and they're champions. And sometimes it's very difficult for us to relate to people unless it's in the context of something that's truly special in our heart. They talked about in city slippers. Sometimes there's nothing left to talk about. Billy Crystal talked about, or his friend talked about him, his dad, and they had baseball, and that's all. And that's sometimes what my dad and I had. And this cake. Happy birthday. Mookie and Dwight were there, but most importantly, my dad. These guys walked in, started bawling, crying. When I was talking about the stories. My dad didn't know Dwight and Mookie didn't know you guys were coming. And I was telling the story to my kids in the room, and I'm crying, tears coming down my face. I want to get into what it looked all about personally, but let's hear from these guys first. And eenie, meenie, my emo. Let's go. First to my left to Mr. Mookie Wilson. Met extraordinaire, came up when the Mets weren't winning, things weren't happening, all the ways you want it to be happening. And he went from all the way from that to what's been rated the third most. I'll call it the most amazing moment in baseball history.

[Mookie Wilson]

Three and two to Mookie Wilson.

[Dwight Gooden]

Little roller up along first behind the bag.

[Mookie Wilson]

It Gets through Buckner, here comes Knight, and the mets win it.

[Host/Interviewer]

Mr. Mookie Wilson, can you please tell us a little bit about you, Your background, coming up with the Mets, where they were, what it meant to you from there, you know, to 86, or like, how about this from there until Mr. Dwight Gooden comes to the Mets, Please.

[Dwight Gooden]

Okay.

[Mookie Wilson]

Well, I think that my history, like many young people, you come from humble beginnings. I was born and raised on a farm family of 12 kids in my family, and I'm like, right in the middle. Seven boys, five girls.

[Host/Interviewer]

South Carolina. South Carolina.

[Mookie Wilson]

And baseball is something that we did on the weekends because we were tired.

[Host/Interviewer]

Working.

[Mookie Wilson]

So it was a career.

[Host/Interviewer]

What'd you do on the farm?

[Mookie Wilson]

We did everything.

[Host/Interviewer]

What's like, the worst thing you ever did on the farm?

[Mookie Wilson]

Pick cotton.

[Host/Interviewer]

Wow.

[Mookie Wilson]

I don't wish that on anybody. Picking cotton is one of the worst things in the world. But picking cotton, clothes, corn, cultivating by hand. We don't have those machines and stuff with it back then. We just know, get a hole and a rake and you. You cultivate. So that's where I grew up.

[Host/Interviewer]

So. So when you were working on a farm, you've grown up, Mr. Mookie Wilson. And I'm calling Mr. And Mr. Dwight. Good, because it's how much respect I have for these gentlemen. At what point do you begin to think about a future? Like, did the future look like, hey, I'm going to live the life where I'm going to be doing, working on a farm, or the time that you start to think about, hey, that could be a different future?

[Mookie Wilson]

Well, when I work at the farm and I didn't have much of a plan because back then, most kids, when they finished high school, military was the only option. It was either military or the farm. I wasn't working on the farm. I have. I had my field of work on the farm, but I was lucky enough to be the first child in my family to go to college, you know, and because of baseball, you know, I went to college.

[Host/Interviewer]

And when you were in high school, did you think you were going to be a professional? Like, at what point did you first.

[Mookie Wilson]

Have the thought, no, being a professional baseball player was never in my plan. I didn't think about professional baseball until my second year of college. And that was after I was drafted by the Dodgers out of Georgia College.

[Host/Interviewer]

And what round was that? What do you remember what round you were drafted?

[Mookie Wilson]

Oh, I was drafted. I was drafted. And back then they had the supplement draft, which is the winner. They call it the winner Draft, and I was drafted in the fourth round by the Dodgers, and I didn't sign because I had no plan or how baseball is all about. So I decided to go back to school.

[Host/Interviewer]

Were you a superstar in high school? Like, how. How different were you in?

[Mookie Wilson]

Literally, that depends what you. I was a really good player in high school. I was. My biggest role was pitching dog, mostly pitching pitcher in high school. In the college as well. I pitched most of my college gorilla to my last year of college, and that's when I had kimono.

[Host/Interviewer]

Little League, though, was like, everybody like, okay, here's Mookie Wilson. Mookie's coming up. You lead in the league and hits home run. Like as a Little League, or are you just, like, really good? Or were you like, the man never played? Wow.

[Mookie Wilson]

I played my first all night baseball.

[Host/Interviewer]

In high school, and now I'm going to jump over. That's a lot different. That's a lot different than your story, right, in terms of baseball and your dad growing up. So if we take it from where your dad and you start rolling and from there as a. As a young, young boy.

[Dwight Gooden]

Oh, yeah. So my dad was from Georgia. Same thing in Mookamichen. Small town called America's Georgia. Wait, you know, he worked on the farm and all that. I'm the youngest of five kids. I'm the youngest by 13 years. So I was very spoiled growing up.

[Mookie Wilson]

You know, I never know that.

[Dwight Gooden]

I was born in Tampa and my dad was a baseball coach. He loved baseball. And back then, you only got the one game a week on Saturdays with Joe Gaggiola. You know, we got all of that on Braves games on the radio. So my dad would get off work at night, we'll sit there. And my nephew, Gary Sheffield, he grew up in the same house. He's my sister's son.

[Host/Interviewer]

I'm sorry, I'm going to jump in for things that people don't know. Gary Sheffield was also an incredible Major League baseball player. And that's Dwight Gooden's nephew. So imagine they're rolling in this family, like Dwight Gooden and Gary Sheffield.

[Dwight Gooden]

I grew up in the same house, but my sister had him young, she had him at 15. So basically my parents raised him and grew up like a brother. We shared the same bed at one time. So all we want to do is play baseball because my dad coached Little league baseball, coached semi pro baseball, and coached girls softball.

[Host/Interviewer]

Your dad was a great player growing up himself, right?

[Dwight Gooden]

He said he was. I never seen him play. I never seen him play.

[Mookie Wilson]

His claim Was.

[Dwight Gooden]

But no one seen him play. My mom never seen him play so much. But I tell you what, though, to his credit, the one thing I regret. Before my dad passed, I never found out where did he get his knowledge from. Because he taught Gary. He knew Gary was gonna be a hitter. And he said he knew I was gonna be a pitcher, even though I wanted to hit her. But he said, no, your best thing, gonna be a pitcher. He taught Gary. Wait, Gary. So we're gonna back. That was all for timing. He talked Gary about hitting. He told me about pitching. I had the high leg kick. That was all about timing, get my arm time and getting a good place to throw. So he told us all that, like when we first go to the park. Like he. He came home one day for work. He said, how much guys like baseball? I don't remember what my mom said. I told him that one day I want to go on tv. So he said, okay. When I come home from school to the park, we're gonna work on stage. So he'll take us to the park. No glove, no bat, no ball. So it wasn't fun, you know, Gary's working the thing, swaying his stick. I'm over here going to my wind up. No ball, no glove, nothing. And so I'll go over to my mom. Yeah, I guess I just parked doing this crazy stuff. He don't know what he's talking about. I don't know.

[Host/Interviewer]

Listen, so you're like, you like j. Karate Kid?

[Dwight Gooden]

Like, yes.

[Host/Interviewer]

So. So you're like, daniel, S. Wax off, wax off. I don't know what you're doing here.

[Dwight Gooden]

So I told my dad, I don't want to guy. I'm like, you don't know. You. You know he's talking about. You know, that's what I'm thinking. Then my. My oldest brother told me, no, just stick with it, bro. You never know. You got them do at school anyway. And stuck with it. And then as I start getting older, I understood, like, if I threw a ball, like, say the monkey's badging from the left side, I'm trying to go down and in, but the ball is up and away. I would know because my arm didn't catch up in time. I got here. And the reason I got here, because I was rushing or something like that. So I knew that at a young age because my dad taught me all about mechanics, which they already teach anymore today. So by learning all the different things. And down in Florida playing baseball, the weather's always great so you can play year round. So Even when the season was over, we'll get together and meet halfway and play guys from our school that lived in different neighborhoods and play.

[Host/Interviewer]

That's what we did.

[Dwight Gooden]

And then also like up north, like in New York, they have. In New Jersey, they have stickball. We used to call it a strikeout where you have a guy, two guys on a team, you got tennis ball in the bat, you play, and if you hit on one side of the street, other sides out. So that's the way we grew up playing. And so baseball is what always wanted to do when I was a kid. On Saturdays, you know, you get up, there's no school, so you have your cereal. I'll go outside bowling ballista house or find one of my friends to play catch. With baseball, the only thing that I wanted to do. A lot of times you asked if you wanted to play baseball or would you be doing something with baseball. I'm sure because I knew nothing else. Baseball was my ticket. I was just fortunate enough and blessed to play baseball because I don't know what I was going to do.

[Host/Interviewer]

And you were a big time standout Fee. You're a big time standout in little league as you go in high school, but the high school you play for is like rich in crazy superstar stud baseball players. Like this is, you know, I'm thinking numbers guy. You had guys from your high school getting drafted high right beside you. Am I right?

[Dwight Gooden]

Yes. So I don't know. You remember Mike Heath?

[Host/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Dwight Gooden]

Played with the Tigers a little bit. He was drafted. I think it was 72 or 75 from that year to. Even after I was chef graduated in 76, was the number one pick every year from 72 at 75 out of high school. My number one. Number one. Number one for high school. We had 25 guys. I just found out. 25 guys, 25 that played in my little league park. Not high school. My little league park that played at least one in it in the major leagues.

[Host/Interviewer]

That's crazy.

[Dwight Gooden]

From a lily park. Right.

[Host/Interviewer]

So. So I'm sorry, do. Go ahead.

[Dwight Gooden]

No, go ahead. So my l. And we try to. Me and Gary try to get that back into our park. We played in inner city and the kids don't get the same opportunity because traveling baseball now we got all the best players and a lot of guys can't afford that. So we try to have clinics and different things like what we played to get that because it's good to give donations on that. But the kids, they want to ask questions, they want to touch you. They want to know how did you do it? So we trying to get back into that, to give them opportunities. But my high school, like you were saying, first of all, I'm saying we never won the state. The team we had, we don't want to state.

[Host/Interviewer]

Mookie Wilson coaching the staff.

[Dwight Gooden]

We had 1981, my junior year. Okay. So we played Tuesday, Friday, Saturdays. All three pitches got Van Fle, big lefty ball, 6, 6, 5, 6, 6. No more pick with the Dodgers. He was in a Ron State deal. We had Albert Everett. Albert Everett, number one pick by the Twins in 81. That's Corey's older brother. And Floyd Y, the number tier pick by the Mets in 82. I couldn't break the rotation. I was a relief pitcher.

[Host/Interviewer]

Imagine, imagine rotation.

[Dwight Gooden]

But I can hit though.

[Host/Interviewer]

Yeah. I asked him in the car, I'm like, would you have been a professional hitter? He says no. I say yes, but please.

[Dwight Gooden]

Yeah. So I couldn't make that. I was a release pitcher. I was like the closer. Yeah, anytime. And for me, halfway through my junior year, got kicked off the team for missing practice a lot. He moved to California with his dad. And I got into the rotation like halfway through my junior year. And if that, if German didn't get up team, I wouldn't have pitched into my senior year because revelation ever was seniors. When I got in my junior year, I pitch well. I think I went like 5 and over the one summer already. But my senior, I had a better junior than my senior year. My senior, I pitched like almost every game. I mean, I would start Tuesday, depending on the score, I might release four Friday. And then depending on what we play on Saturday, my starter coming that game. So there's a wonder I had anything left.

[Host/Interviewer]

Coach, coach him get arrested for doing that tonight.

[Dwight Gooden]

You can do it today.

[Host/Interviewer]

So. So you were 17 years old? Yes. I'm sorry, is it junior or 17 or 16?

[Dwight Gooden]

16.

[Host/Interviewer]

Your birthday is when?

[Dwight Gooden]

November. November.

[Host/Interviewer]

So you're turning, you're turning. So you graduate high school at 17.

[Dwight Gooden]

Yes.

[Host/Interviewer]

Got it. So you're 16 years old, three years later you'll be the major league rookie of the year.

[Dwight Gooden]

Am I correct this? Right?

[Host/Interviewer]

And so then back to Mr. Mookie Wilson. Come back to Dwight in a sec. So Mookie Dwight was just talking about how he had incredible coaching from his dad. At first he thought his dad was crazy, right? Most of people do. What was it for you? Like, how did you learn to play this? Was it self taught? You have some great mentors, coaches, and then, you know, if you don't mind taking us from there to get drafted. And all of a sudden you got this hot shot. Who's this guy? Rookie coming in.

[Mookie Wilson]

Right.

[Host/Interviewer]

Good. But like. Yeah, so who is it for you? Yeah, please.

[Mookie Wilson]

Well, first of all, I never had a formal coaching. Everything that I learned in baseball, I learned from my dad. Even in the major leagues, things, my things that I used that saved me in the game, you know, because we didn't have the real coaches coming through my leagues that they have now. We didn't have hitting coaches and base riding, coach, all that. My father was really big, was so much on the mechanical things of the hitting and the pitching. He was all about the mental approach. That's what he was really, really good at. And no, I was a pitcher. Like I said, most time in amateur ball, in my first game I ever pitched, I pitched to my dad. My dad was the catcher. So. And that was.

[Host/Interviewer]

How old were you?

[Mookie Wilson]

I was about 13.

[Host/Interviewer]

Wow. Okay. What was your dad's baseball background?

[Mookie Wilson]

My dad was the catcher and he played and they call it semi pro. We call it Salon. We played every Saturday. Every Saturday we played. And that's what that was. That's what we. So when I was 13, I got to play with the adults.

[Host/Interviewer]

Wow.

[Mookie Wilson]

You know, at 13, you know, so.

[Host/Interviewer]

You were a big time standout. I mean, you're playing, you know, 13 years old.

[Mookie Wilson]

When I got high school, I'm like a play Little league out or I could play with grown men already and stuff.

[Host/Interviewer]

As a freshman high school, did you start or city?

[Mookie Wilson]

Yes.

[Host/Interviewer]

Wow. So this is incredible, right? I mean, you guys both played. You're having. Because your high school is so crazy, you're having a difficult time being starting rotation as a junior, Mookie's there starting as a freshman. But obviously you guys just complete rock stars, so. So you get drafted. Buy the Mets. Yeah. And what happens with what's minor leagues? Let that journey from minor leagues to major leagues. What's that like for you?

[Mookie Wilson]

When I was drafted by the Mets, I was drafted by Dodgers first and did shine. I went back to college when I was traded by the Mets, in all honesty, I didn't know who the Mets were. I had no idea because the Pro bowl was not. Not something we watched. We had only one game that you could watch on television. It was always the Braves. That's all you seen is Carolina Brave, nobody. Braves drafted by the Mets. I signed. I was drafted in the second round. And it was tough. It was really tough because I had no idea that Molly ball was that Rough. I had no idea that the bus rides, hotel accommodation, and even the ballparks.

[Host/Interviewer]

So you were drafted in what year? 80.

[Mookie Wilson]

77.

[Host/Interviewer]

Oh, sorry. 77. You're drafting 77? And how much did you get paid to play in the Minor Leagues in 1977?

[Mookie Wilson]

You really want to know?

[Host/Interviewer]

I do.

[Mookie Wilson]

Okay. All right. It's almost embarrassing to see, but I didn't, um. I was drafting the second round and I had a $22,000 bonus. Second round. That's what I got as a bonus.

[Host/Interviewer]

And. And what's the second round bonus today?

[Mookie Wilson]

Oh, God, this got to be rereading. It's almost a million. Pretty much, yeah. But anyway. And I was made 500 bucks a month.

[Host/Interviewer]

500.

[Mookie Wilson]

$500 a month? A month before taxes.

[Host/Interviewer]

Wow.

[Dwight Gooden]

Did you.

[Host/Interviewer]

Did you do other jobs at 6,000 in the winter?

[Mookie Wilson]

In the winter?

[Dwight Gooden]

Yeah.

[Mookie Wilson]

You had to. You had no choice? Yeah, there's no choice. You had to work during the winter so you couldn't devote your time to training. And there was never. Only training we got was the week before spring training.

[Dwight Gooden]

That was it.

[Host/Interviewer]

Yeah. So you, you. Were you a fast run? Well, 77. Your debut at the Mets is 1980.

[Mookie Wilson]

1980.

[Host/Interviewer]

Okay, so what's that? You know that were you. Were you pretty confident once you're in the minor leagues that you were on a normal pacing to get the major leagues or you weren't so sure if you're gonna make it?

[Mookie Wilson]

I didn't know because I did. I wasn't aware how pro baseball worked. You know, it was like a day to day thing to me, just talking with guys and stuff. All I wanted to do is just move up. You know, you play rookie ball and I played rookie ball in my first two months, which I signed back in July because I went to college World Series in June and I signed in July. So I played the last two months. And then the next year I got moved from rookie bowl to Double A. So I skipped the A Bowl league because, look, I've been in. I'm a college, college player, so I did skip that one year in Double A, then I played two years in AAA and second year in Triple A is when I got called up.

[Host/Interviewer]

Got it. And so you come to the mets and by 19, so 1980. William come for a little bit by 1981. When do you first start to become a more regular player at the Mets?

[Mookie Wilson]

I played every day when I first got here. I mean, 80 when I got. Hold up. I played about every game that last month of the season, but 81 was my official rookie year, and I made a team as a starting right fielder.

[Host/Interviewer]

Wow.

[Mookie Wilson]

In 81, I made a team as a starting right fielder.

[Host/Interviewer]

And.

[Mookie Wilson]

After playing like a month or whatever, Joe Tory benched me. I never forget him for that. I never forgave him either, benching me. But I was hitting about 240, 250, and he benched me seat. I was struggling, so he put me on the bench, and I was sat on the bench for about another month. And then their team was so bad, where I never forget that we ran out of San Francisco and they had a meeting, and the coach came up to me and said, we had a meeting, and you're going to be starting center field. And this is Joe Torre. Joe Tory was mad at it. Joe Tory. That would have told me. One of the coaches told me that.

[Host/Interviewer]

You know, so before Joe Torre's becoming a legend with the Yankees. I'm a Met fan. He was the Met head coach. Met manager. Excuse me, Met manager. And he wasn't doing what he was doing with the Yankees and the Mets.

[Mookie Wilson]

Well, now, in all honesty, to Joe, in all honesty, Joe, he didn't have a whole lot of words.

[Host/Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah. So this does tell you you need players like. Yeah, you can be a great mind ye players. 1981, it wasn't working out. So 1981, if I could introde real quick, we go to Shea Stadium. It's the winter, Nobody's there. I'm 11 years old, and this fifth row behind the dugout. And I said, these are incredible seats. We sit in them. And my dad said, well, hey, they have one more thing for us to look at. So we go over and we go to box 113A. It's the front row, right? Is the edge of the dirt meets the edge of the grass. And this is where Mookie Wilson, Dwight Gooden, and my life will intersect. They don't know it, right? They don't know anything about it. They don't know about now. But our lives were on a trajectory to intersect. And because of what they will do, my life would never be the same. So I thank you for that. We'll come into that in a minute. But now, 1981, you're playing, you're there, now you're starting. And, you know, take us through, please. You know, Mookie, for, you know, quick minute or so, what happens over the next couple years until the Mets get a guy named Daryl Strawberry? Guy named Dwight Gooden, please.

[Mookie Wilson]

Well, I think that most people probably know the story from 80, when I came up to 81 and Lakeisha, from.

[Host/Interviewer]

Your perspective, like what?

[Mookie Wilson]

From my perspective, we were so bad. I wanted to go back to Miles.

[Dwight Gooden]

That's bad.

[Mookie Wilson]

And then we were winning in my lease. I, you know, we had good guys on the team with Doug Flynn, Joe Youngblood, John Stern. They were good guys, but the team was not. They. We just didn't compete with the other teams. And I was happy to be here. And I didn't, I didn't appreciate. I didn't understand what winning meant to New York. I, I didn't understand the love, the love hate relationship that Met fans had. You know, they've been struggling and I didn't understand their struggles. And I think that's what it is. I didn't understand their struggle because like I said, I didn't know who a lot about the men I, I knew. And I heard that they did this great. The Amazing Mess 69. I heard about that, but I wasn't a part of it. So I really didn't understand until I got here. And I didn't understand, you know, the, the hostility. And that's what it was sometimes, the hostility that they had towards a lot of players. And it wasn't a hostility toward the players. It's a hostility because they weren't winning. No. And it's a big difference. It's a big difference. And I learned that early because I go out there and I played hard. I played hard and I made one crucial mistake, and that is I'd won every place I'd been. I thought that I was going to do that when I got to New York. And when it didn't materialize, then all of a sudden I felt a little bit different. Well, maybe you're not as good as you thought you. You were because you didn't make that difference. You didn't make that difference. Well, at this level, it takes more than one guy, you know, and I did. I think I had to learn from that and just go out and do the best I could, then be the best that I could be and perform up to my capabilities. And that only thing that got me through those first two years, because it was rough.

[Host/Interviewer]

So I'm 7, 8, 9, 10, 11. I'm 11, 81, 12, 13, 82, 83. And do you want to know how much I booed? You guys? Ready? Zero, zero. I never booed. I never in my life have ever booed, ever. Because what I believe and appreciate this. How does that help? Right? Like. Like sitting there booing and I'd love to hear Your thoughts in a second. I've never understood it, like, this is your team.

[Mookie Wilson]

Yeah.

[Host/Interviewer]

Somebody you know is in the major leagues and they're up there. And somehow I knew this. Like, I don't know. My dad never even told me that was 70. I'm like, do you think the guy didn't want to get hit? Yeah. Do you think he wanted to walk the batter? I mean, the guys are doing the best they possibly can. And the person that's the most upset, the most hurting, if they strike it on the key spot or give up a home run, the key spot is that player. And the other thing I would think when I'm sitting there and this is. I'm 10 years old thinking this.

[Dwight Gooden]

Yeah.

[Host/Interviewer]

I was like, you go out there and try to do it, dude. You drunk, heavyset dude that's yelling and screaming, booing like, you try to get your ass out there.

[Mookie Wilson]

You're not.

[Host/Interviewer]

I'm not normal.

[Dwight Gooden]

You not.

[Mookie Wilson]

You're different.

[Host/Interviewer]

And I'm not pulling slow. I swear to God. That's the truth.

[Mookie Wilson]

And I've learned that just because fans boo you, that don't make him less fan. They're still passionate about it.

[Host/Interviewer]

Matt.

[Mookie Wilson]

Fans are passionate, Passionate fan. Yeah, they are very, very passionate fans. And I just, I. I guess I've never been booed before. And I think that was part of it. And, you know, and, but.

[Host/Interviewer]

And I'm not judging them. I think, I think sometimes people, we. We all do. I do too. We do things that don't make sense.

[Mookie Wilson]

Yeah.

[Host/Interviewer]

So for me, it's always made no sense. You're building a team. Like, how is that helping anybody? Like, I don't know what's happening. It's like, it's like if you're, you know, your kid's six years old and go up and bat and he strikes out, yell at him. I mean, it's crazy. Like, how is that going?

[Mookie Wilson]

Yeah.

[Host/Interviewer]

So. So now you at some point.

[Dwight Gooden]

Yeah.

[Host/Interviewer]

Have this hot shot. Not that he says, but everybody's saying he's a hot shot.

[Mookie Wilson]

Yeah.

[Host/Interviewer]

So Dallas Strawberry is the first hot shot and this guy named Dwight. And all of a sudden you hear pop like this. There's like some, Some metal in the mid. Right. Is that like, am I right? Like this sound like metal in the mid or.

[Mookie Wilson]

No, it was, it was. I. I tell you what.

[Host/Interviewer]

Or am I. Or am I just like. Am I just like fluffing up?

[Mookie Wilson]

No, no, I tell you. We had. When we. Daryl came up and Darl was this very high profile player coming out of California. Everybody heard about the, the kid, you know, coming out of California the next 10, six, six. And he had a just, just beautiful swing. And when I finally saw him, he was about his legs is real skinny kid. I'm saying this is what all the hooplas about I expect, you know, I expect this big husky really I'm serious. I expect this guy to be just a monster. He said this. Is this what those albums are? You know.

[Host/Interviewer]

I could play this quickly of D for some.

[Mookie Wilson]

Then you see him play and you see him run and you see him throw, you see him do all these things and you say wow, boy, I wish I had those tools. I mean really, he's. I said I wish I had those twos but if I had those dudes, they couldn't pay me enough to play this.

[Host/Interviewer]

And how tall are you?

[Mookie Wilson]

I'm only five nine.

[Host/Interviewer]

Five nine.

[Mookie Wilson]

Yeah. I got a ways to go. I got a ways to go. I'm still working on that. You know, let's go. But you know and the same thing with, with, with Dwight. No got chemo Dwight I hadn't. The first time I heard of Dwight he was already in the big leagues. I had made about the mileage, nothing like that, you know, hadn't seen the pitch, you know so but that I hear him talking in the clubhouse again. Dwight good. I say right.

[Host/Interviewer]

So Daryl's out of Crenshaw.

[Mookie Wilson]

La. Yeah.

[Host/Interviewer]

The two meccas of baseball, high school baseball. And you told me a little bit before this that you just saw when he was like all right, let's see what this is about. He said there's a mountain presence about DWIGHT Good and 19 years old or you saw first time he was 18 years old.

[Mookie Wilson]

I guess that's the first thing that I noticed because I'm playing center field hugger stinger field. On the part of if you've been to St. Pete, Florida huggers thing up feels old place to mess you to you know, train and stuff. And I'm standing there and I'm sitting right. Okay, let's see what this kid's got. And I'm watching him and high leg kick. He had a big high kick and he throw the ball, you know. Okay, okay, I can do it. Ain't no big deal. Yeah but let's see if they face some hitters. But he approached hitters the same way that it was almost like a warm up day and that's impressive. There's no panic, no nothing. He just. This kid's got. It was. You knew something was special about the Kid. Now, could he get guys out consistently? That remain to be seen. But the first thing I look for is my own presence. And even as a hitter, the first down is pray presence. Whether you get hit or not is irrelevant. I just want to see how he handles himself between the good and the bad. And that's my most impressive thing I like about both of those kids, Daryl and Doc, they always look like they belong.

[Host/Interviewer]

Yeah. And so the long he did that can move on his. Mr. Dwight Goodall, you are the National League rookie of the year and if I get this incorrect, please correct me. Right. Was it 276 strikeouts as a rookie? How about me knowing that I didn't look that number up for this interview? I've known that since I'm 14 years old. Yep, 276 strikeouts. And my life is changing because I'm just sitting there in eighth grade, not going out on a Friday night to go to the movies with my friends. Because you're pitching. And I was the only fan of all my friends. Most of my friends didn't even like baseball, believe it or not. Like, I like I played football as well. So most of my closest friends were football players. Didn't go, so you're dominating everything and you're the guy. Like, how was that rookie season where you mentioned earlier, you go from watching and pretending you're these guys, like playing and the next thing you're doing, you're facing the likes of Pete Rose, Mike Schmidt. How was that for you?

[Dwight Gooden]

First of, like, it was. I was like a dream. It's a real. I used to have more. To get more kick out of it after the game to go home and call my friends and tell them who.

[Host/Interviewer]

I faced.

[Dwight Gooden]

Me, they're like, you kidding?

[Host/Interviewer]

I struck out Mike Schmidt. I just struck out Mike Schmidt.

[Dwight Gooden]

Like they normally be like, you didn't face people. You didn't pick me up. But they know I'm in the beginning. And I can't believe it because back then it was on cell phones.

[Mookie Wilson]

Yeah.

[Dwight Gooden]

Like the hotel and you call. It's. I face, you know, Del Murphy, I face under Dawson, these guys. But the thing was, was things like Davey, you know, he started me off my first three or four starts. He would only be going five minutes.

[Host/Interviewer]

And this is what. So the Met manager, Davey Johnson. Dwight Good has this lightning in a bottle where Davey Johnson is his manager in the minor leagues.

[Dwight Gooden]

Yeah. And David, I had David in the minor league. So he knew me. We had a good person, a good relationship. So first four or five games, like, I Started my first game at Houston in Astrodome. So it's kind of like, not that he was baby me, but he kind of like the second in Chicago. So it was like, I'll go five or six innings. But I remember what gave me confidence. It made me feel like. You say you had that one moment, did you belong? Was mine was being in the All Star Game. My first year, I made the All Star team, and Nolan Ryan was like one of my childhood heroes. Told me, goes, man, you could really pitch. I like watching you pitch. And to hear Nolan Ryan tell me that, that gave me all the comments in the world that I needed. And I remember after the awesome break, Davey told me to say, alicia, now you're on your meaning. I can go more than five minutes now. He just kind of let me fall in. But I had good veterans around that made me feel comfortable. One guy that really helped me was Mike Torres from spring training. Mike told me, he goes, you're probably gonna make the team. And if you make the team, I'm probably gonna get released. Wow. But to Mike Zubetz, he told me he was. But long as I'm on the team, when you're not pitching them, I'm not pitching. You're going to sit next to me. I said, why? He said, because you're going to talk about hitters and different things and what guy you think anybody that you know is going to take your position is going to help you. Yeah, I just sit next to Mike and he'll say, why don't you throw here? I said, why would you throw that? What are you looking for? And he basically was teaching me about.

[Host/Interviewer]

These hitters, what act of integrity, what acts, leadership. My tortoise, please.

[Dwight Gooden]

Another guy, Craig. Remember Craig Swan?

[Mookie Wilson]

Craig Swan.

[Dwight Gooden]

Craig Swan was hurt, but he would do the same thing. He would talk me to him about pitching. How do you feel? And then I went off the equal row with Mookie George, a lot of veteran guys. So it made me feel comfortable because, again, I'm a year and a half out of high school, some of the youngest kids, so I wasn't really homesick, but it was different. But they made me feel comfortable, made me feel like I belong. And that went a long ways.

[Host/Interviewer]

And you become the. Correct me if I'm wrong, the youngest player ever to start the Major League All Star Game or the youngest player ever pitched in a Major League All Star Game. Is that right?

[Dwight Gooden]

Yes.

[Host/Interviewer]

When you're 19 years old.

[Dwight Gooden]

19, yeah.

[Host/Interviewer]

Please.

[Dwight Gooden]

I never been so nervous. That game, you know, just what you Call nervous? Yeah, nervous heat. I was so nervous. I remember the funniest thing about being on the All Star team. When we had workouts, Howard Cosell was entering me and it was, it's funny now, but at the time I was like. Because I was real shy and quiet, you know. So I can only remember Howell from him and Muhammad Ali getting to it all the time. He's interviewing me like I'm sitting right here from Mookie, he asking me questions, but I'm looking at him like I'm amazed as Howell. I don't hear nothing. He said, I don't hear anything. And so now they're like, doc, so what do you think? I'm like, can you repeat that? I didn't say nothing the whole time. They said, okay, let's go to commercial. I mean, nothing. I was just so nervous. And then I wanted to get in the game, but I would have been okay if I didn't get the game. I was just happy being around so many players that analyzed and I, I'm admired. And so when the friend was pitching, they called down and say, big note. And they said, good, you up?

[Host/Interviewer]

Wow.

[Dwight Gooden]

I nervous. I'm more nervous that 19 years old.

[Host/Interviewer]

Major league All Star game and for, for folks out there that, that, you know, don't really can't appreciate this context. It isn't the same today. People always say, oh, it's not the same thing. It isn't the same. Baseball was a, it was the American pastime, right? Basketball and football were not what they are today. The star that Dwight Gooden was, the shock, the impact, it just isn't like that today. Baseball isn't televised the same way. People don't watch baseball the same way. It's just a different universe. In those days, like the major league playoffs, they were on the major networks, channel 2, 4, 7. That's it. What's happening today, it's like channel 78 and this thing, other contracts, right? So then like when, when these guys were doing what they did, it was a different universe. You got, you know, Dwight doing that. Mookie is as popular as any met ever. People should love him. He's heart, soul, core of team. We go through this, this improvement from 1983, Darryl Striver rookie of the year 1984 Dwight Gooden rookie of the year 1985 then that's we think might win the division. They don't quite get there. Dwight Gooden has, in my opinion, it's not statistically, you know this, but I believe as dominant a pitching season as anyone ever has. 1.53 RA 24 and 4. I'm blind. No notes. I bet right knowing these numbers cold and his curveball. I don't even know pitchers are stopped learning how to throw curveballs. There's nothing like sweeper today. This curveball would drop from a hitter's head to his toes. It was the most insane thing to see. People like oh, baseball is not really curved. Go watch these videotapes of Dwight Cab pitching. We'll put some right here. It's totally crazy. So dominant force now we're coming to 1986 and we're about to intersect the Fox 113AMookie Wilson as the greatest moment in sports baseball history.

[Dwight Gooden]

I go with.

[Host/Interviewer]

They call it number three all time. Think of every million baseball moment. The number three moment met steamed through the 1986 season won 108 games. They clinched the division early September fans running the field crunching against Chicago Cubs. I'm going to all these games in box 113A. Not every game. My dad sneaks me in. We don't have a lot of money my family but my dad has these tickets because of work. So he'll every time he can steal me in. He's got a. A customer that's got a son. He's bringing me maybe even sometimes Dwight movie maybe he's putting some of those tickets in the back pocket bringing me and him and right. And here we're going to the games St. John's party. There's no cell phones and people couldn't confirm who was there. Maybe my dad, a couple phantom clients that were sitting those seats with us. So this is the whole season we're building up and we're going to win the World Series. I haven't seen the Mets win the World Series in my lifetime. I was born in 1970. My dad would tell me the stories of 1969. We're ready to go. Here we go. Houston Astros. Tough series. Crazy Nolan Riot, Mike Scott, JR Richard Joaquin and Duhar. All those four pitches were there. Was I right or wrong about that?

[Dwight Gooden]

Or. And I was gone.

[Mookie Wilson]

J.R. was gone.

[Dwight Gooden]

It was Nolan Scott Nipper. What's a big big lefty? The big lefty was on big lefty.

[Mookie Wilson]

The Shields. I should hit him.

[Dwight Gooden]

Yeah.

[Host/Interviewer]

So. So it's Mike Scott, it's Nolan Ryan, it's Nefer, it's the Shields. Right. So here we're 86 and yeah, Danny Dory. And then now you end up in one of the great controversial playoff series of all time. Which Gets overshadowed by what's about to happen in the World Series because the Mets are. They lose. Was it game one, lose to Mike Scott or game two?

[Dwight Gooden]

He beat me. One nothing game.

[Mookie Wilson]

Yeah. Beat one, not one nothing.

[Host/Interviewer]

Right. So Dwight Gooden goes out there and crushes it. He is up a single run and lose one nothing. But now it's a question, Mookie of the ball. So what's going on with the baseball Mike Scott, in one of these great controversies of all time. So what happens? What happens to the baseball Mike Scott?

[Mookie Wilson]

That's the biggest mystery.

[Dwight Gooden]

I'm.

[Mookie Wilson]

My question is what didn't happen?

[Host/Interviewer]

Okay.

[Mookie Wilson]

I know we had just a lot of evidence that somebody would do something weird with the baseball. You know, somebody was doing something with baseball.

[Host/Interviewer]

And what people were saying. I'm not gonna say. Mookie's gonna say it. Is that Mike Scott was scuffing. The baseball was cheating. Yeah, that's what the. The word was. And by the way, baseball is an interesting game. Yeah. So people historically tried to cheat and get away with it. It's like, you know, baseball is a complex sport. So pitchers did things to the baseball, but the Nets now believe Mike Scott's got from the ball and it's in their heads. So game one, Mike Scott wins. Was it game four? They came back at one. Again, I say what, though?

[Dwight Gooden]

If I could jump in, I pissed against Mike Scott. Game one.

[Mookie Wilson]

Yeah.

[Host/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Dwight Gooden]

So I'm gonna say somebody was comfortable. Somebody, I think. And just my opinion, I think out of that, they catch someone Shangart. Because they checked my Scott all the time, never found anything. But the ball is definitely scuff because I was using the same ball. I mean, I couldn't get it to do anything. I didn't know how to. Yeah.

[Mookie Wilson]

Do it.

[Host/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Dwight Gooden]

No, but the ball is definitely scuff. But it's in the same spot.

[Host/Interviewer]

So you hold the ball. It's definitely scuffed, definitely scuff. And then that's heads. Now we get to Game 6. It's three games to two. The Mets are up. It's in Houston. If the Mets don't win Game 6, they're going to face Mike Scott. And face of Mike Scott has not gone too well so far.

[Mookie Wilson]

Right.

[Host/Interviewer]

Playing Mets. So the game goes into the 16th inning, right.

[Mookie Wilson]

Go ahead, nookie, take it.

[Host/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Mookie Wilson]

No, this is the point where your chest start ache, you know, back and forth. It's just been one of those matches. I would say that going into that game, though, we knew that it was going to be Be they matched up very well with us pitching wise. They had pitching speed, good defensive team, they had power. So they matched up with us pretty, pretty well. We were a better club, no doubt there. But they had the X factor. Was my Scott nice. And I, I think that Game 6 was a must win because the last thing that we wanted, the last thing I wanted was for us to face my scar in game seven because we had too many players already complaining about my Scott.

[Host/Interviewer]

So now we're in our.

[Mookie Wilson]

Nah, they're in their hands right now. In baseball, you can't play like you cannot play. That's a defeated attitude. You can't play the game like that. You can't play a game thinking you're going to lose. And the question was, everyone said, why would the umpire do something? Why would the umpire do something? They hadn't done anything all year. So why would you think they're gonna do something now? Then that really brings about questions. If they've done it all year, they definitely gonna do the thing now. So why are we. I'm saying this, I'm not telling the players though. Why complain now? It's too late, you know. But anyway, game seven, something we didn't want. So game six was definitely a must win for us. And now I could also say that the only time in the whole year that I felt threatened by another club. Only time.

[Host/Interviewer]

Wow.

[Mookie Wilson]

Only time.

[Host/Interviewer]

And so 16th inning.

[Mookie Wilson]

16Th inning. Wow.

[Host/Interviewer]

Please.

[Mookie Wilson]

Game goes back and forth. What's the outfield?

[Dwight Gooden]

Hatchet.

[Mookie Wilson]

Hatcher. He had that home run. Yeah, I, I was saying Billy Hatcher. Billy Hatcher. I'm saying, I say, oh, that's good, you know, And I think the game was going back and forth so much. I was so emotionally drained that I just wanted to get the game over with. I didn't care who win. I wanted to get it over to start fresh next day because my chest was hurting just from the thrill, you know, I, I literally, my chest was aching. I'm saying this is too much. No one should have to go through this. And I'm glad we won it. Knowing that Mike Scott was going to be in year seven. We wouldn't have had anything left. We wouldn't have. But they probably been the same vote.

[Host/Interviewer]

We wouldn't have anything left in the Astrodome. Jesse Rasco, you guys are going to the World Series. Here we go. I'm losing my mom. I'm 16 years old. My nest is going to win the World Series. This is going to be most incredible thing. Go to game one. Chase Stadium Ball Roaster somebody's legs will remain aimless. Right. We don't. Things don't quite go our way and then so we the Mets lose game well I'll say we so. And then we lose game two at home.

[Mookie Wilson]

Yeah.

[Host/Interviewer]

My friends are writing up. I wrote this whole thing out of like what was going to happen in the World Series of my friends and they're now running the counter story as you guys lose game one. We lose game one two and I'm sicken. Right. Game three in Boston win game four in Boston, win two two. The world is right. Game five in Boston doesn't go delay. But we're coming home for game six. Right. So let's take us through. Dwight coming into game six. What are you feeling? What are you thinking? 1986 World Series. We're about to set up the moment that is the greatest comeback in World Series history, period. And rated the third greatest moment in World Series history by some. I'll say number one. And Mr. Dwight Good. What do you feel and think of as game six in New York in Shea Stadium. Here we go.

[Dwight Gooden]

I thought we had a good shot at that time before game started. You know me personally, I didn't pitch well in the World Series. Game two had nothing. Game five had nothing. So I was looking at it like man, how can. From a selfish standpoint, I'm like how can. That's where the self pity come in. How can they pull me out of this? But I had confidence with going back to Shane, what's going to play better Because I thought game one and two, what Game one I should say, I think was mentally wasn't prepared because of what we went through.

[Mookie Wilson]

Yeah.

[Dwight Gooden]

In game six against the Astros. So I don't think we're basically there but again the world says I didn't pitch well but I still had confidence in our team. And from a selfish standpoint I was hoping we did well so I could maybe come out of bullpen or something like that. But I had a lot of confidence on our team that come in my cold weather. We still had a legitimate shot even before we got down to build famous edge. Yeah, I still thought we had a good shape.

[Host/Interviewer]

So we go into this game, Roger Clemens, one of the great pitchers of all time, also pitching. I had the privilege after you and I, Dwight met for the first time of the next night going to dinner with Roger Clements and you told us all about game six from your perspective. He told me all about game six from his perspective. So now we're there and in game six it's tied, going to extra innings. And if the Mets lose this dream season of 108 wings, 54 losses, one of the most dominant baseball seasons a team's gonna ever have, right, it's gonna all be gone. My friends are rooting against me like crazy. My heart's breaking. And my dad and I, this is the core of our existence in life as we just talked about in the hospital. Then, thank you guys again so much for doing that. My dad. And my dad is in the front row box, 113. Eight of those seats I had the privilege of picking. I'm in the last row of the upper deck, thrilled to be there in extra tickets my dad was able to get, sitting with my uncle. And my dad comes up in the beginning of 10, tie game and says, come on down. I have a broken ankle from playing high school football my junior year. I start crutching down, and Dave Henderson hits a home run, and I'm in shock. And later, as a sophomore at Columbia University, we play at the Oakland A spring training facility. In some of our early games in season, I'm in the east dugout, and I bump into Dave Henderson. And this is only three years later. And I said, you know, Dave Henderson, you almost crushed my heart and my soul as he's packing up his stuff. Like, what are you talking about? So I told him this and privileged time, that story. So we're there, and we come into the tunnel, and the Mets are down a run from Dave Haddress. Down a run. I go in crutching, crutching, crushing my dad. Come out of the lower level. She's staying tunnel. And somehow another run scored. I don't even know what happened, right? I didn't even hear any crowd noise. So I'm like, wait. I literally thought the scoreboard was wrong. I'm like, dad, the scoreboard's wrong. And I'm like, what happened? Like, no, they scored again. They're like, oh, my God, it's five, three. And. But as Mookie Wilson would say, Mets have Wally Backman coming up. Q. Turning in this Gabby Carter, right, 2, 3, 4 in the lineup, right? And so Wally Backman comes up and all of a sudden flies out. Keith Hernandez hits the ball. Well, right? And he's out. There's two outs. I'm in shock. Tears. I'm 16 years old, you know, the tears are welling up in my eyes. Gary Carter gets the two strikes. And this. This is proof that miracles happen. The statistical improbability of a team coming back in the Major League Baseball and the World Series. In any game, you know, especially in the World Series against the team as great as the Red Sox down two nothing, two strikes, nobody on to Gary Carter. And he gets a hit. Yeah, there's no noise on Shea Stadium. It's like dead right. And my. I don't. I've never given up. I did not give up. I was not giving up. I refused to give up in my heart, in my soul, my mind. But I was like in tears. I'm fighting what's going inside of me as a fan. I'm sitting there just 20, 25ft away from the first base bag. And then two strikes again. And it's drama. It's at a Kevin Mitchell's up base hit because Daryl Strawberry is out of the game. And a double switch. Then Ray Knight comes up two strikes again. It's unbelievable. Now there's a lot of noise. Like noise is happening. And he gets a hit. Shea Stadium explodes. Complete insanity. Now, what's present for me is why everybody wasn't believing from hit number one and why everybody needs like all that stuff happens. So I'm making some noise. I'll always be challenged the psychology of people, right? Mookie, you're such a bright light. And things your dad told you the mindset. Why is everybody wait until something happens to cheering you guys on? The whole time I was. That's the truth. Right? And so it's. Now it's down one run, right? The Mets have guys. Two guys on base on first and third. And up to the plate comes as beloved a Met has ever played the Mookie Wilson and sir, please take us from. Do you walk to the plate? What's happening in your heart mind? What's going on?

[Mookie Wilson]

Well, first of all, now you know how you.

[Host/Interviewer]

How do I do that setup, by the way?

[Mookie Wilson]

Yeah, there's a great setup. But you know, the one thing that you know when. When you're growing up and you. You're dreaming and. And you thinking that you always put yourself in a position to be the hero. You know, I want to be in that position to be the hero. You always dream of that. You don't want to be there. Don't let anybody take you unless you're in that spot. You know, that is more than. No one should have to bear that type of burden. But this was. I mean, that was my spot then because I had to go from. We are down. We probably not gonna make. We probably had blown this to. Now I got. I got a hit and I Didn't think I could have an opportunity to hit. And I get up there, I got one thing on my mind right now that is, you know, hey, you just got to do. Do you?

[Host/Interviewer]

Do you.

[Mookie Wilson]

Which is swing the bat.

[Host/Interviewer]

And now Dwight, as Mookie's up and all this insanity is happening, what are you thinking? Like, what's happening for you?

[Dwight Gooden]

So when Mookie came up, I thought we had a shot, to be honest. And I'm not just saying I could do this here.

[Host/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Dwight Gooden]

Because all the pressure, like he says, pressure on him, but the pressure I look at that situation is on the pitcher, too. Yeah, more on the pitcher. But before, if I can, before Mogi come on that. Before we got the rally going once it was two outs. Like you're taught, even in Little League that the game is not over till it's over. But I thought it was done. You try to think of what I could have done differently, what the team could have done differently, Feeling bad about yourself, self paid, all this stuff in your clubhouse. Then it was a hit. Then the metal hit. Wild pitch on something. Mookie came up. I'm like, you know, let me get back out there, put my uniform like, oh, we got a shot here. So I had a lot of confidence that at that point, had a legitimate chance. Right.

[Host/Interviewer]

And there's pitch one, pitch one, and pitch two. Please take.

[Mookie Wilson]

I just pitch out the pitch. I mean, I'm. I'm swinging for deadline.

[Host/Interviewer]

I.

[Mookie Wilson]

That's probably my best at bat I've ever had.

[Host/Interviewer]

And everybody who. Not a baseball fan, right. The. The average amount of pitches that a player is going to see in a bat, I think, think. And I could be wrong about this, but I think it's like 3.1 pitches is the average, like, amount of pitches every batter sees. Like, if you look at every bat, like, in a season. So pitch one to Mookie, pitch two to Mookie. Pitch three to Mookie. Okay. That's an average of mat. Pitch four to Mookie. Pitch five to Mookie, Fish six. Now we're like kind of an outlier back Fish. Seven, eight to Mookie. We're in a crazy situation. The place is going crazy. And what happens next is that, first.

[Mookie Wilson]

Of all, after the first pitch, I went for my average already. My one pitch person.

[Host/Interviewer]

Player, swinging it back, pitcher.

[Dwight Gooden]

But the last guy you want to see that situation got us a free swing.

[Mookie Wilson]

Yeah.

[Dwight Gooden]

Because it's got no holes.

[Mookie Wilson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host/Interviewer]

And.

[Mookie Wilson]

And that's the way I was thinking about it. The umpire I took the umpire out of the game. He was not going to have anything to do with it, no matter what. And that's kind of the philosophy that choke my whole career. Don't let the umpire determine what I mean. But I'm swinging and I'm just fighting balls off. And people don't understand the wild pitch, pass ball debate. What depends whether you're in Boston, New York. It depends. I'm playing with house money after that.

[Host/Interviewer]

I mean, everything. So Mookie's up and. And the ball gets past the catcher. Gets past the catcher, ties the game.

[Mookie Wilson]

Yes.

[Host/Interviewer]

And Chase Stadium is literally moving, moving like the whole place could collapse. Nobody cares. We all died in that moment. None of us.

[Mookie Wilson]

Nobody would have care.

[Host/Interviewer]

And so it's going crazy. And now it's a tie game. And Mookies up, please.

[Mookie Wilson]

And I'm saying, no, kiddies. School is tied. Only thing I can hear, I'm. I can't hear anybody boo me now. It can only be cheers.

[Host/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Mookie Wilson]

You have no idea how that. That's. So all I got to do now is concentrate on doing my job, which is put the ball in play.

[Host/Interviewer]

And right before this, they put a Congratulations, Boston Red Sox winning the World Series on the scoreboard. Shay Stadium. They got a clubhouse guy puts on a Boston jacket in their dugout ready to run out. They named Marty B. To the Red Sox the MVP of the World Series. Are you kidding me?

[Mookie Wilson]

That showed how much confidence they had in me. I'm not, but. But I actually had some pictures I should have really. And I was upset because I had two good pictures that I should have really done a lot with. And I think you can probably see my show emotions on one of those swings. I'm like, I'll never get that one back again because you're going to get one piece to hit, you know, and understand it was not. I've faced him before, so I knew. Yeah, I knew what he was going to try to do, you know, So I was kind of trying to take that pitch away. And when I got the pitch, middle end, middle end, which is a left handed dream, getting that pitch middle in about knee high. And I went at it great. And then I kind of turned over.

[Host/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Mookie Wilson]

And when I rolled over it. You remember you. When I met you today, you said that the first time your father heard you curse.

[Host/Interviewer]

Yes, sir.

[Mookie Wilson]

Well, that was that. That's when I.

[Host/Interviewer]

You were cursing that moment.

[Mookie Wilson]

Then I was laying some words out during that moment. But that's another story for another day. All right, so after that it all happened so fast. And after that did not. I just took off and started running, not knowing where the guy was playing or anything like that. I'm just. I just took off, started running, and the ball was just bouncing. Took forever to get down to first base. And when it went between his legs, I said those same words again.

[Host/Interviewer]

So Mookie hits the ground ball towards Bill Buckner. First place. I'm sitting. Yeah. Oh, 20ft from Bill Buckner. Yeah. And the whole place is thinking, Mookie Wilson's. Yeah. Not the whole place. Half the place. Mookie Wilson's round out. And all I'm thinking, you know, I'm a player playing. You know, I'm gonna be a divisional college player shortly thereafter. So I'm understanding the whole thing. And all I'm looking at is Mookie and Bill Buckner. Mookie and Bill Buckner. I look, the picture is not covering. I'm like, bill Buckner is not. Beat Mookie to the bag. Like, this is going to be amazing. And all of a sudden, I think Bill Buckner may look up to see where you are, what.

[Mookie Wilson]

Whatever happened. And I spoke with Bill a couple of times. We talked about this, and he says, she didn't take his eye off of it. He just was rushing because the picture was late covering. And the question people ask me all the time is, would I could beat him to the bag? And Bill and I, we. We. We watched this video time and time again, and we're in agreement that even if he catches the ball, he's not going to beat me to the back.

[Host/Interviewer]

And. All right?

[Mookie Wilson]

And I'm saying, well, I'm glad you missed it, because if you catch it, the score is still tied. You've got to remember that we got a good hitter coming up, got Hojo.

[Host/Interviewer]

Coming up, and poor. Listen, my heart breaks with Bill Buckner because people say something that's totally untrue is that he lost the World Series of Red Sox. It wasn't even game seven, and the game was tied. There's no way you got. I mean, it was not. No way. But you guys had so much momentum, like going to the. If you. If you beat him to the bag or if you don't. Right. He catches the ball, makes the out. Like, you have your next trainings now. You have all the momentum in the world. It's Bill Buckner, I think, got one of the most raw deals in sports history.

[Mookie Wilson]

I think so. But that's baseball. Because people say, why is that? And I always give the Analogy, you know, if you, you, you can't find your keys or whatever, you don't look five different places and it's always the last place you look. That's the last thing people remember. That's the last thing that ended that day. And that's all they remember. They don't forget about all that other stuff that happened before that. You know, you forget you looked in your glove compartment, you looked in your left pocket, you looked in your shoe bag. But it's always that last spot. And people remember that. And as unfair as it is, and we all know I had the pleasure of playing with Bill for many, many, many years, playing against it. And I had the pleasure of being a friend of his for just as many years after.

[Host/Interviewer]

And.

[Mookie Wilson]

That play could have happened to anybody. It could have happened to anybody. It just happened in a time when both teams were cursed for lack of people's sake. And the two seaters that were involved, it was so much at stake. And the fact that, and I will say it, they had the game in their hands. They had the game and they couldn't close it out. So. And, and I think that they have to blame somebody.

[Host/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Mookie Wilson]

And it's easy to blame that last person that had the opportunity to put into it.

[Host/Interviewer]

And here, and here's my take as just on a self mastery, a mindset level, right. Is yes, the bread sauce can close it out, but in that game, gary Carter.

[Mookie Wilson]

Yeah.

[Host/Interviewer]

Two strike. Oh. Kevin Mitchell. Two strike hit.

[Mookie Wilson]

Yeah.

[Host/Interviewer]

Brain that you strike. Mookie Wilson. 10 pitch at battle.

[Mookie Wilson]

Yeah.

[Host/Interviewer]

Put the ball in play. You're going to beat him to the bag. What in my heart, what that taught me is that there is never a time where something is over.

[Mookie Wilson]

Yeah.

[Host/Interviewer]

And every one of you did your job to make sure that our hearts and souls in New York was not crushed, devastated and destroyed. And it inspired me. I would not be doing this podcast. I would not be in a place. I don't know if you guys know this. I'm just going to say it in my heart. I'm on the verge of becoming the first blind self funded unicorn, which means billion dollar company, founder, creator ever in the history of planet Earth. It's never happened before. Blind self funded unicorn, business builder, history of the planet. That would never have happened if it wasn't for what you guys did. And I honestly believe that's probably. There's about 20 other things that had happened to in my life and other people and places, but the New York Mets, 1986, game six. And this is why guys because you go, oh, this is going to be like, the end of the podcast is you can ask them, like, one more thing. I will. One more question, each and a one thing. But the answer is yes. Because this wasn't a podcast about met history. This wasn't a podcast about every aspect of the amazing Dwight Good and Mookie Walsh's lives. This was a podcast about the impossible become impossible, about miracles happening and what everybody did along the way to make it happen and whatever. And you know, DWIGHT, you know, Mr. Dwight Good. You know, you mentioned, hey, like, there's a part of you that felt like it wasn't going to work out, but you had teammates that picked you up, and you picked those teammates up hundreds of other times when you were the dominant force doing everything, because that team was never where it was without you. And I'm not saying it to be nice, I'm not saying to be kind, but that's the case. We all have moments where our. We have doubt. But then Mookie Wilson picks it up and Gary Carter, Ray Knight and Kevin Mitchell. And that's what team is about. It's about picking each other from all the things you guys do. And then game seven comes in, you guys are down three, nothing. Again, I have no doubt whatsoever. Then Dallas Germany hits a home run and Ray Knight has his home run. Like, unbelievable. And what I want to know two final questions on make it a compound thing. First, Mr. Dwight Gooden, anything you want these fine folks to know. You go on and win two more World Series. The Yankees pitcher, Noah with the Yankees. I tease and joke because, you know, like in New York, like, you're the method Yankee fan. But you, you made me unable to root against the Yankees because of my love and appreciation for you. But anything you want these fine folks to know in, you know, final, final, as you like to say. And Dwight Gooden, if you could be remembered for anything you want, this is the legacy of what people to know about you, right? Not, not the worst, not the best, not the meaning, just what you want to be remembered for by people. What would that be?

[Dwight Gooden]

Okay, the two part.

[Host/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Dwight Gooden]

First of all, what I like to be a member of is obviously off the field, I had my downfalls. It was time that I didn't believe myself. But I got to talk depressing. It sounded like going to 2019 where fans, family believed in myself more than believed in me more than I believed in myself. Because of my fans, my family, the people that around me love me so much, they got me back on my feet. So what I like to remark, yes, I made a mess. But I try to take that mess now and make it a message. That's what I try to do. Now. I can't change what happened. I can share what happened to try to help somebody else. They may be going through those struggles. A family member or someone might be going through the struggle. So one thing I knew of, yes, he fell, but he turned his wife around, turned the mess that he made into a message to try to help someone else.

[Host/Interviewer]

If I may offer something on my heart, I don't think you failed. You can call whatever you want. I don't think anything is ever permanent enough or final enough to be failure. And taking something that wasn't the way you wanted to and turn it to a message of inspiration for people is so utterly powerful and amazing. And I mean this all my heart. There's ever anything I can do in service and support of what you do. Even those kids in Tampa and that Little League. I am here because of what you've done for my family and my life. And so even in moments that were imperfect, I mean, who isn't imperfect? Who hasn't made mistakes, left for the grace of God, go, I've made tons of mistakes, and we all made mistakes. But when you're a superstar in front of the world, you make a mistake, it's going to get amplified, magnified, twisted, and turned a million different ways. You've always talked about. And I will give props to George Steinbrenner and how he related to you and treated you in that spirit. Please relate to me the same way that if there's ever anything to do for you, Mr. Dwight, good. Because of what you've done for my father, be honest. 80th birthday, all of the memories will lead as a player. And afterward, I couldn't thank you enough. And thank you, Mr. Blake.

[Dwight Gooden]

Thank you for having me. Appreciate you.

[Host/Interviewer]

Thank you. And Mr. Mookie Wilson, same question. We want these five folks to know if you can be remembered for anything, what would you want to be remember for?

[Mookie Wilson]

I think that the first thing is I would like for people just to judge me based on the work I've done. Let whatever I've done speak for me. You know, I think that's old gospel song and stuff like that, you know, and so I don't need to tell people this. I don't need people to. I. I don't care about people constantly telling me how great I've done, what I've done, this, that the other people that have come in Contact with me. I want them to understand that who you see, that's who I am. And as far as the game, baseball has been very good to me and my family. And baseball has been a great lesson. And I like people to. And I try to. I try to relate this message to people because I do a lot of public speaking. I'm an ordained manuscript, and I do a lot of. I talk to people a lot. And I let them know that.

[Host/Interviewer]

Just.

[Mookie Wilson]

Like in baseball, we practice, you know what you call it, PfP, but plays and all kinds of defensive schemes and stuff like that, and all of this saying is that if you put your body in the best position to be efficient, and that's what life is, you put yourself in a position that you can take advantage of any opportunity that might arise. Here's an opportunity, not someone. No opportunity is always there. You're just not always in a position to take advantage of it, you know, So I. That's the message that I like to live with people. But as far as how they want to remember me, hey, just. Just let my work speak for me. Don't let me. I can't tell you how great I am or how bad I am, you know, let you be your judge.

[Host/Interviewer]

Anybody ever wants to have a celebrity athlete, speaker, people that are a part of the sports history. These guys are the people that have. They're sitting there eating birthday cake.

[Mookie Wilson]

My dad good cake, too.

[Host/Interviewer]

Was it a net Jeep cake? They're just loving, they're present. It took a lot longer than we thought. At one point, some visitors were died in the hospital. And these guys could not have been more present, more loving and better. And I can't thank you again enough. Mr. Dwight here, Mr. Mookie Wilson. God bless the both of you. So everybody seeing what you don't see is what this is all about. Seeing what you don't see. And these folks reporting a miracle. And miracles happen every day. But it didn't just happen only from the hand of God. It happened because they did the things. They're not perfect. I'm not perfect. Nobody's perfect. But miracles happen when the heart, the mind, the mastery comes together. And that's what these people in the 1986 Mets. Let's go, Mets. Here we go. Thank you.

[Mookie Wilson]

All right, man.

[Host/Interviewer]

Thank you.

[Dwight Gooden]

Buddy. All right.

[Host/Interviewer]

Thank you, thank you.