Podcast Summary:

Uncanny Valley | WIRED – THE BIG INTERVIEW
Episode: Silicon Valley Tech Workers’ Campaign to Get ICE Out of US Cities
Date: January 30, 2026
Host: Katie Drummond (WIRED Global Editorial Director)
Guests: Pete Worden (Startup Founder, ex-Google/Apple), Lisa Khan (Tech Entrepreneur, ICE Out Tech Signatory)

Episode Overview

This episode focuses on the growing movement among Silicon Valley tech workers—ICE Out Tech—petitioning industry leaders to leverage their influence and demand the removal of ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) from American cities. The movement, sparked by recent acts of violence involving federal agents, reflects a marked shift in attitudes, risks, and tensions within the tech sector, especially compared to earlier Trump-era activism. Host Katie Drummond explores motivations behind the campaign, the power dynamics at play, CEO responses, and the road ahead with key movement signatories.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Genesis and Motivations of ICE Out Tech

• The movement was triggered by the killing of Minneapolis resident Renee Goode and ICU nurse Alex Preddy by federal agents ([02:27], [04:18]).
• Lisa Khan explains her motivation to sign:
  • Speaks to the broader economic and moral crisis: “When the government starts killing people on the streets and then denying or reframing what is clearly documented, it's really a bad situation, just purely thinking about the economics of it.” [04:58]
  • Emphasizes the risk to capital, talent, and business stability in a climate of fear.
  • Acknowledges personal and professional risks, but says, “the stakes are too high not to act.”
• Pete Worden cites the courage of Minneapolis protesters as inspiration and his own relative freedom (as a founder) to speak up, compared to corporate employees ([06:09]).

2. Shifting Power Dynamics in Tech

• Lisa Khan outlines the dramatic decline of employee power post-2021:
  • "From 2016 through 2021, retaining employees was a top business priority… As the economy shifted and layoffs happened, employees lost a lot of that power.” [07:46-09:25]
  • Notes the shift from employer dependence on talent to a more expendable view.
  • Draws a line from the DEI movement’s height in 2020 to Coinbase CEO Brian Armstrong’s push for “no politics” at work as signs of changing winds.
• Pete Worden adds: “If you're a tech CEO… and you do not kiss the ring, you’re going to be targeted… it's not a choice anybody ever expected to have to make between free speech and having your company destroyed.” [09:42]

3. CEO Motivations & Realism of Activism

• Lisa Khan on CEO psychology:
  • “At some point the company becomes their ideology. And protecting the company… is the ideology.” [11:40]
  • She doubts that CEOs' core values have shifted, but views silence as the rational, self-protective stance in 2026—though “that may no longer be true.”
  • She argues current brutality and risk to the industry's foundations (research cuts, talent flight, instability) may force CEOs to act.
• Pete Worden: Tech’s transition “from underdog to dominant” shocked leaders, who “used to be given a lot of leeway” and are now viewed with public skepticism ([14:30-15:57]).

4. Why the Movement Resonates Now

• Lisa Khan: Asserts the coalition is unusually broad, including “moderates, independents, libertarians, Republicans, and people who have never really been politically active…” [16:30]
• Pete Worden: The brutality of recent events “even people who do not follow politics… couldn't ignore.” [17:23]

5. Barriers to Wider Participation

• Pete Worden: Fear of retaliation, both for corporate and startup employees.
  • “By speaking out, you’re marking yourself as somebody the Trump administration will demand that [your] company fires...” [20:56]
  • VC dynamics: “If Marc Andreessen is saying, ‘I will not do business with people who are against the Trump administration,’ even sympathetic VCs will be constrained by that.” [20:56]
• Lisa Khan: Notes some employees prefer internal channels (Slack groups etc.) to public action, e.g., Palantir’s internal activism [22:57].

6. Ethics vs. Business Reality

• On companies (like Palantir) reliant on ICE contracts, Pete says:
  • “It's not like they're going to go bust if they turn down the ICE contracts… People are not going to forget that Palantir was a key enabler of ICE.” ([24:12])
• Lisa Khan on CEO responsiveness:
  • Pressure often comes “from a range of folks—peers, friends, employees… only then will they seriously consider shifting their positions.” [25:39]
  • Recent internal and external statements from big names (Sam Altman, Dario Amodei, Tim Cook) show this pressure works.

7. The Limits of CEO Action and the Role of VCs

• Lisa Khan: “Alphabet, Meta… I don’t know if we’re getting [them].” ([29:21])
• Pete Worden: The venture capital industry remains a key bottleneck; open support from top VCs would grant “permission” to many others. Praised Vinod Khosla for speaking out, criticized others’ silence ([29:31]).

8. Advice to Startup Founders

• Pete Worden: Encourages all to contribute in any way they can: “I'm never going to judge somebody for not sticking their neck out… Please try and find other ways to help.” [31:32]
  • Shares a personal anecdote about joining protests in costume to channel energy positively ([32:28]).
• Lisa Khan: “I don't think being opposed to state sanctioned violence… is very controversial or risky… Focus on building a great company. If you build a great company, people will want to invest. Investors are capitalists, not ideologues, most of them.” [33:06]

9. What’s Next for ICE Out Tech?

• Lisa Khan: Next goal is to double the signatories: “We want to get to 2,000.” [34:21]
• Pete Worden: Calls for in-person meetups to build community and moral support: “I really want this to be the start of us forming a community that’s just dedicated to being decent to people.” [34:28]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Lisa Khan [04:58]: “It is risky… but the stakes are too high not to act and not to speak up. It feels like a no brainer to me.”
• Pete Worden [09:42]: “If you're a tech CEO… and you do not kiss the ring, you're going to be targeted. So in some ways, I actually sympathize with the CEOs…”
• Lisa Khan [11:40]: “At some point, the company becomes their ideology. And protecting the company… is the ideology. It is the prevailing motivator.”
• Pete Worden [14:30]: On tech’s perception shift: “That shift from being given a lot of leeway because you were the scrappy underdog to now, owning massive parts of the economy means… you're going to get a lot more criticism.”
• Lisa Khan [16:30]: “We’re hearing from people who identify as moderates and independents and libertarians and Republicans… This is a really big tent.”
• Pete Worden [17:23]: “Seeing the murder of two innocent people on video, even people who do not follow politics… couldn't ignore that.”
• Lisa Khan [25:39]: “CEOs are rarely the first to break with… consensus… only when they feel pressure… will they consider shifting their positions.”
• Lisa Khan [28:52]: “I applaud it.” (On leaders finally making public statements)
• Pete Worden [28:54]: “Absolutely. Come join us… This is not about purity tests… anybody who's helping, we're super happy to be working alongside them.”
• Pete Worden [31:32]: “Just try and get involved… It doesn't have to be public. It doesn’t have to be a big statement. Anything you can do.”
• Lisa Khan [33:06]: “If you build a great company, people will want to invest. Investors are capitalists; they're not ideologues, most of them.”

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:27] — Introduction and context for ICE Out Tech Movement
• [04:58] — Lisa Khan on why she signed the letter
• [06:09] — Pete Worden’s motivations and career risk
• [07:46] — Decline of employee power in tech post-2021
• [09:42] — The threat of retaliation from government and investors
• [11:40] — CEO psychology: Company as ideology
• [14:30] — Tech’s shift from underdog to dominant industry
• [16:30] — Unusually broad political tent behind the movement
• [17:23] — The unignorable brutality of recent events
• [20:56] — Barriers to participation: Retaliation and power of VCs
• [24:12] — Palantir/ICE business and moral risk
• [25:39] — Does internal pressure work? Signals of effectiveness
• [28:52] — Whether late CEO statements matter
• [29:31] — VCs' influence and calls for more public support
• [31:32–32:28] — Advice for cautious founders and anecdotes
• [33:06] — Risk calculus and investor motivations
• [34:21] — Next steps: building the coalition and community

Conclusion

This episode delivers a candid, multi-faceted view into Silicon Valley’s soul-searching at a moment of national crisis. It chronicles a reconfiguration of risk, morality, and motivation, tracing the industry’s changing dynamics from post-2016 activism to fearful, but growing, dissent in 2026. The movement’s leaders urge both empathy and pragmatism: small acts matter; building communities matters; and both short-term and long-term decisions have consequences for American business and society. The episode closes with calls for continued coalition-building and the defending of basic decency and constitutional values—“Let’s care about human rights. Let’s not murder people in the street.” ([34:28])