Uncanny Valley | WIRED
Episode Summary: Can UpScrolled Keep Up With a Surge in Users?
Host: Katie Drummond (WIRED’s Global Editorial Director)
Guest: Issam Hijazi (Founder & CEO, UpScrolled)
Air Date: April 7, 2026

Overview

This episode of Uncanny Valley’s “The Big Interview” features Katie Drummond in conversation with Issam Hijazi, founder of the new social media app UpScrolled. The discussion explores Hijazi’s personal journey from working at major tech companies to launching UpScrolled, the platform’s rapid user growth, how it differs from mainstream social media, challenges in scaling and moderating content, and the overt political stances the platform has taken, especially regarding Israel and Palestine. The conversation also touches on the future of social media, monetization strategies, and ethical technology choices.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Issam Hijazi's Background and Personal Motivation

• Early Start in Tech: Started coding at 12; 17.5 years in IT and tech, including stints at IBM, Oracle, Hitachi, and small startups.
• Disillusionment with Big Tech: Felt complicit in unethical global practices, particularly companies enabling surveillance and atrocities (e.g., in Gaza).
  • Quote [04:00]: “These companies have been complicit in bad things… for instance, by supplying technology… to countries like Israel… I felt complicit just working for them, and I wanted out.” – Issam Hijazi

2. Catalyst for Creating UpScrolled

• Personal and Political Turning Point: The October 2023 violence in Gaza and personal losses motivated him to act.
  • Suppression on Social Media: Noted widespread shadowbanning and selective censorship for Palestinian and allied voices.
• Goal: Create a platform where expression isn’t algorithmically suppressed, and ownership/control are more ethical.
  • Quote [05:05]: “I've seen a lot of people been trying to post and talk about what's happening... but they were shadowbanned, selectively censored… I felt it was a time to give people back control…” – Issam Hijazi

3. UpScrolled's User Experience & Product Philosophy

• Familiarity is Key: The platform deliberately mimics the interface/UX of Instagram and X to ease user transition.
  • Quote [07:40]: “I wanted something that would instantly feel familiar… I did not want to create something new that needed a certain learning curve…” – Issam Hijazi
• Chronological Feed – No Algorithms: Content is shown strictly in chronological order, not curated by opaque recommendation engines.
  • Quote [09:03]: “What’s happening behind the scenes is a very chronological feed. That is.” – Issam Hijazi
  • Quote [09:08]: “I love chronology. Thank you for sticking with chronology.” – Katie Drummond

4. Handling Rapid User Growth

• Solo Founder Stress: Up to 2.5 million users, Issam was running the platform alone—managing infrastructure, content moderation, marketing, and more.
  • Quote [11:28]: “It was pretty much a one-man show, and that’s me.” – Issam Hijazi
• Surge Post-TikTok Sale: Growth accelerated massively after the TikTok acquisition by US interests; user base jumped from 150k to over 2.5 million in days.
  • Quote [13:57]: “I started to see upscroll jumping... to the top... it got all the way to number one by the end of January… 2.5 million users. And it was still me running the show.” – Issam Hijazi
• Scaling Team: Now has 25 employees across engineering, moderation, comms, brand, and HR.

5. Technical & Ethical Challenges of Growth

• Scaling Pains: From infrastructure stress to targeted harassment and orchestrated attempts to undermine the platform’s reputation.
  • Quote [16:55]: “With growth of course comes all set of challenges. You need to manage... millions of users. You need to suddenly manage bad actors who want intentionally to bring the system down...” – Issam Hijazi
• Personal Sacrifices: Prolonged family separations due to work.

6. Monetization Plans

• No Current Revenue: Operating on investment from mission-aligned angels and VCs; maintaining strict standards for investors to preserve platform ethics.
  • Quote [20:24]: "Currently we're not making any money. We're backed by certain angel investors who are aligned with our values…” – Issam Hijazi
• Possible Revenue Streams:
  • Verification subscription fees (for "blue check" status)
  • Marketplace commissions for creators and businesses
  • Highly selective advertising (only from ethical businesses)

7. Content Moderation: Criticism and Approach

• Criticism: Accusations (e.g., ADL) about insufficient moderation and presence of antisemitic content.
  • Quote [22:49]: “We're a new social media platform… existing platforms... still have problem when it comes to content moderation… We want to build a platform that is safe for everyone to exist, to speak freely, but within legal boundaries...” – Issam Hijazi
• Moderation Model: Currently mostly human-led moderation; AI used only for detection, not for final decision-making. Plans to keep a "human-in-the-loop" model for appeals and transparency.
  • Quote [24:54]: “Currently it's a manual process… we want to be able to detect anything before it widespread... and then allow a human in the loop to make a decision.” – Issam Hijazi

8. Explicit Political Positioning: The Israel/Palestine Question

• No Israel in Location Dropdown: This was a conscious choice, reflective of Issam’s personal and family history as a Palestinian.
  • Quote [27:03]: “I personally coded that function, not for you as a user to see Israel on the dropdown... Israel is exactly that [perpetrator]...” – Issam Hijazi
  • Quote [28:45]: “This is an app that I've built… in response to… the bad things that Israel have done… having them to be on the app on that dropdown is not going to happen.” – Issam Hijazi
• Open Statement: The stance is explicit, unapologetic, and defines the platform’s identity and values—expectation of both support and backlash.
• Focus on Mission: Prioritizes support and engagement from aligned users.

9. Ambitions & Philosophy for the Future

• Mainstream Goals: Wants UpScrolled to be a “mainstream social media platform” for anyone who values free expression, not only for pro-Palestinian or “pro-anything” groups.
  • Quote [31:52]: “We are not creating this platform for specific groups… We're pro humanity really. So everyone is welcomed with their views.” – Issam Hijazi
• Open Social Future: Envisions social media where users can freely move content between platforms; sees fragmentation but hopes for interoperability.
  • Quote [36:48]: “At some point there will be some sort of openness between all these platforms where users are able to interact from one platform to the other… something like… you're on Vodafone, I'm on T-Mobile… Able to communicate… same with social media.” – Issam Hijazi

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [04:27] “I felt I needed to do something because I was fortunate enough not to be in Gaza… And I've looked around and I've noticed a lot of people been trying to post and talk about what's happening on social media platforms, but they were shadow banned, they were selectively censored.” – Issam Hijazi
• [09:08] “I love chronology. Thank you for sticking with chronology. I think too many social media apps have lost the plot when it comes to the chronological feed.” – Katie Drummond
• [13:57] “I started to see upscroll jumping… to the top... it got all the way to number one by the end of January… 2.5 million users. And it was still me running the show.” – Issam Hijazi
• [27:03] “I personally coded that function, not for you as a user to see Israel on the dropdown… Israel is exactly that [perpetrator]… having them to be on the app on that Dropdown is not going to happen.” – Issam Hijazi
• [31:52] “We are not creating this platform for specific groups or pro Palestinians or pro anything. We're pro humanity really. So everyone is welcomed with their views.” – Issam Hijazi

Segment Timestamps

• [02:07] – Opening, intro, and setup of Issam Hijazi’s background
• [03:19] – Hijazi’s tech career and growing ethical dissatisfaction
• [04:41] – Founding UpScrolled: personal loss, censorship, mission
• [07:15] – Designing UpScrolled: user familiarity & functionality
• [09:03] – Chronological feed, no AI content curation
• [10:22] – Growth surge, solo founder experience, sacrifices
• [11:28] – Scaling challenges, transition to 25-person team
• [16:55] – Technical and moderation challenges
• [20:24] – Monetization, investors, ethical ad policies
• [22:13] – Moderation criticism and response to ADL
• [24:54] – How moderation works: human-first, AI-assisted
• [27:03] – Israel in the UI, personal politics, and company stance
• [30:20] – Dealing with backlash and community support
• [31:52] – Roadmap: from niche to mainstream, independence from big tech
• [33:03] – On fragmentation and the future of social media
• [37:35] – Open invitation: "UpScrolled is for anyone"
• [39:53] – “Control-Alt-Delete” game: what tech to control, change, delete
• [44:08] – Playful banter over autocorrect, closing remarks

Tone & Style

The conversation is candid, direct, and occasionally impassioned—reflecting both Hijazi’s activism and Drummond’s journalistic thoroughness. The episode balances personal storytelling, technical detail, and industry critique, always circling back to the question of values in technology.

For New Listeners

If you’re interested in:

• How major world events shape Silicon Valley entrepreneurs
• The ethics and politics of tech startup culture
• The future of social media beyond algorithms and Big Tech
• How new platforms handle moderation and scale under a surge of users
  This episode offers a deep, unvarnished look at how ideals, identity, and business pressures intersect in the next generation of social tech.

Notable closing exchange:

[44:02] Issam Hijazi: "I will delete the autocorrect.”
[44:05] Katie Drummond: “Oh, that's a good one. I hate the autocorrect. It doesn’t correct me. It makes me sound wrong all the time.”
[44:12] Katie Drummond: “No, it rewrites things to be like, the word you actually were not thinking about at all and had no plans to type.”
[44:25] Issam Hijazi: “Sometimes they're extremely bad words. I was like, mom, sorry, I did not mean that. I meant something else.”
[44:45] Katie Drummond: “Esam, thank you so much for being here and congratulations on the growth. It has been wild to watch over the last three months.”

End of Episode Content