OpenAI and Musk Fight Again; DOJ Mishandles Voter Data; Artemis II Comes Home

Summary

Uncanny Valley | WIRED – Episode Summary

Episode: OpenAI and Musk Fight Again; DOJ Mishandles Voter Data; Artemis II Comes Home
Date: April 9, 2026
Hosts: Brian Barrett (Executive Editor), Leah Feigar (Senior Politics Editor)

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Episode Overview

This week, Brian Barrett and Leah Feigar delve into a series of high-stakes, headline-making tech and politics stories. They dig into the intensifying court battle between OpenAI and Elon Musk, the controversial Department of Justice handling of sensitive voter data, and the triumphant Artemis II crewed moon mission. The episode oscillates between Silicon Valley drama, political intrigue, and awe-inspiring feats of human achievement in space exploration—always through WIRED’s sharp, informed lens.

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Segment Breakdowns & Key Discussion Points

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1. The Trump-Iran Crisis: "Global Politics in 2026"

Timestamps: [02:32] – [07:39]

• Trump’s Threats & Ceasefire:

  • Trump threatens Iran with annihilation—"A whole civilization will die tonight, never to be brought back again." ([02:32])
  • A two-week ceasefire is announced at the last minute, reminiscent of Trump’s prior high-stakes brinkmanship.
  • The hosts discuss whether the public is growing numb to “madman theory” politics and repeated “bluffing” crises.

• Memorable Quotes:

  • Brian Barrett:
    • "What he's bluffing about has gotten really alarming. And it's only a bluff until it's not." ([03:14])
    • "When Trump being Trump equals taking the world to the brink of the nuclear age... it's really alarming." ([04:47])
  • Leah Feigar:
    • "The boy who called World War 3 is a very scary thing because at some point. Is this real?" ([04:03])

• Contextual Insight:

  • News cycles move so fast that even near-catastrophic events quickly fade from public attention.
  • The “madman theory” is contrasted between Nixon's performance and Trump’s seeming authenticity.

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2. OpenAI vs. Elon Musk: Tech Titans in Crisis

Timestamps: [08:09] – [14:59]

• The Lawsuit & Escalating Tensions:

  • Musk, a co-founder, is suing OpenAI, alleging it betrayed its original nonprofit mission.
  • OpenAI retaliates, urging California and Delaware AGs to investigate Musk (and, allegedly, Mark Zuckerberg) for anticompetitive behavior.
  • Musk’s legal demands (if he wins): removal of CEO Sam Altman and President Greg Brockman, OpenAI to return to a nonprofit model.
  • Ongoing executive shakeups and personnel drama at OpenAI are highlighted.

• SpaceX IPO:

  • SpaceX confidentially files for IPO; Musk hopes for a $2 trillion valuation, potentially the largest in history.
  • Banks wanting in on the IPO must license Grok (XAI), demonstrating Musk’s leverage.
  • IPO race context: SpaceX, OpenAI, Anthropic all vying for AI market supremacy.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Brian Barrett:
    • "His whole life is from a position of insecurity. I feel for the guy. I don't think he's like a happy person." ([09:38])
    • "Elon trying to twist the knife a little bit more... using every opportunity to dig in and extract maximum impact..." ([11:51])
    • "He is making any bank that wants to sort of pitch their services for the IPO... subscribe to Grok." ([13:48])
  • Leah Feigar:
    • "The boys are fighting. We're talking about multi-billion dollar companies here." ([10:13])

• Political Connections:

  • Both Musk and Altman are portrayed as political actors, with influence over the administration.
  • OpenAI’s release of a “post-AGI” policy whitepaper is discussed as both audacious and narrative-driving.

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3. The DOJ & Voter Data: Privacy on the Chopping Block

Timestamps: [14:59] – [19:51]

• The Story:

  • DOJ misleads a judge about use of sensitive state voter roll data; later admits to already analyzing it for “anomalies.”
  • Data includes Social Security numbers, driver’s licenses, dates of birth, etc. Purpose: to “catch” non-citizen voting—a largely nonexistent issue.
  • DOJ has sued 30 states to force handover; plans to share data with DHS's SAVE system.
  • Resignation of the DOJ’s Acting Chief Privacy Officer adds to oversight concerns.

• Wider Implications:

  • Loss of local control over voting data risks broader misuse/manipulation.
  • Many states are “really, really upset about it” ([16:43]), stoking further concerns about election integrity and federal overreach.
  • New wave of “election deniers” crowding into DOJ leadership posts during an election year.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Leah Feigar:
    • "It's not just, 'Oh, this person voted Democrat'... this is your very personal information." ([16:53])
    • "I'm a little bit nervous, I have to say." ([19:44])
  • Brian Barrett:
    • "He just didn't know what was going on with the data... a casualness with how this is being used... really concerning." ([17:42])

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4. Artemis II Returns: Awe, Joy, and the Moon

Timestamps: [19:51] – [28:03]

• History-Making Spaceflight:

  • Artemis II sends humans further from Earth than ever before; first crewed mission to lunar orbit since 1972.
  • Crew survived the longest communications blackout in spaceflight history (40 minutes behind the moon).
  • Spectacular images and videos from space capture the public’s imagination.

• Human Stories:

  • Personalities of the astronauts shine; “the jar of Nutella floating quietly through the shuttle” ([22:37]), rehydrated shrimp packets, etc.
  • The crew proposes naming a previously unseen crater “Carol” after Commander Reid Wiseman's late wife.
    • Astronaut Jeremy Hansen:
      • "If you want to find this one, you look at Glushko…We would like to call it Carol. And you spell that C-A-R-R-O-L." ([24:19])

• Skepticism and Joy:

  • Rampant online conspiracy theories question the reality of the mission—“For whatever reason, this is really getting me.” ([23:14]) – Leah
  • The mission unites onlookers, evoking comparisons to the Olympics in its unifying effect.

• Industry and Policy Context:

  • NASA’s shrinking budget and the rise of private spaceflight (SpaceX) signal a changing era.
  • Direct tension between NASA’s public role and private contractors, with implications for the Moon and Mars.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Leah Feigar:
    • "Feats of humanity…Truly where no person has gone before." ([21:05])
    • "This is one of the increasingly rare events that can really just unify and capture imagination and attention..." ([25:16])
  • Brian Barrett:
    • "There were some deeply human moments along the way." ([23:39])
    • "It does sort of make you remember a time when it's okay for the government to do things." ([25:43])

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Memorable & Notable Quotes

1. Politics & Public Perception:

   • "The boy who called World War 3 is a very scary thing because at some point. Is this real?" – Leah Feigar [04:03]

2. Silicon Valley Drama:

   • "Musk's whole life is from a position of insecurity...I do feel for him. I don't think he's like a happy person." – Brian Barrett [09:38]
   • "The boys are fighting. We're talking about like multi-billion dollar companies here." – Leah Feigar [10:13]

3. Space Inspiration:

   • "Feats of humanity...you are, it is truly where no person has gone before." – Leah Feigar [21:05]
   • "If you want to find this one...We would like to call it Carol." – Astronaut Jeremy Hansen [24:19]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Trump’s Iran Crisis: [02:32] – [07:39]
• OpenAI vs. Musk Feud & SpaceX IPO: [08:09] – [14:59]
• DOJ Mishandling Voter Data: [14:59] – [19:51]
• Artemis II Launch & Human Stories: [19:51] – [28:03]

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Tone & Style

The hosts blend analytical rigor with irreverent, conversational banter. The tone is frank, occasionally sardonic (“The boys are fighting”), and often awestruck when discussing Artemis II. There’s a clear bias toward skepticism of authority (whether Silicon Valley or the federal government), a passion for transparency and privacy, and a human-centered appreciation for scientific milestones.

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In Short

• OpenAI v. Musk: The feud is escalating, with legal and political consequences amid IPO speculation.
• DOJ Voter Data: Misdirection and privacy violations fuel alarm in a tense pre-election environment.
• Artemis II: Amid political and technological anxieties, the mission generates rare, genuine public wonder.

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For more details and linked coverage, see the show notes on WIRED.

Transcript

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[Brian Barrett]

o o.com hey, it's Brian, Zoe, Leah and I have really enjoyed being your new host these past few weeks and we want to hear from you. If you like the show and have a minute, please leave us a review in the podcast or app of your choice. It really helps us reach more people, and for any questions and comments, you can always reach us@ uncanny valleyired.com thank you for listening onto the show. Welcome to Wired's Uncanny Valley. I am Brian Barrett, Executive Editor and

[Leah Feigar]

I'm Leah Feigar, Senior Politics Editor.

[Brian Barrett]

This week we're discussing why OpenAI and Elon Musk's feud in the courts is starting to heat up again. And speaking of Musk, we're going to go over some key takeaways from SpaceX's recent confidential IPO filing. Then we'll dive into the rising concerns around how some agencies in the current administration are handling voter data. And finally, let's get away from it all and go Go to outer space and talk about why the Artemis II launch was such a big deal for everyone watching.

[Leah Feigar]

Before we dig into our lineup this week, we do briefly have to talk about what happened between the US and Iran in recent days. President Trump is threatening Iran again. Writing online this morning, Trump said, quote, a whole civilization will die tonight, never to be brought back again.

[Brian Barrett]

Moments ago, President Trump once again reiterated his threat to devastate Iran if a deal is not reached before the deadline he set of 8pm Eastern Time. Tonight, breaking news out of the White House. The US President has agreed to a two week ceasefire.

[Leah Feigar]

The entire situation was very odd. I guess this is how global politics happens these days. I'm so curious for your thoughts.

[Brian Barrett]

Well, yeah, talk about what happened and. Or more specifically, what didn't happen this week, which was potential World War Three. We were the brink of it, it feels like. And I don't think that's. It's interesting. Like there were good odds that Trump was bluffing, right? Because he has done this time and again. He says, here's this deadline and then he pushes it back. But what he's bluffing about has gotten really alarming. And it's only a bluff until it's not. You know what I mean? Like, I think threatening to annihilate an entire civilization. Terrifying stuff. Even if it's bluster. Terrifying bluster.

[Leah Feigar]

What's wild about pushing this back two weeks is like you made this very pithy remark in Slack late last night, Brian. Sorry, I'm gonna reveal it. Which was just like, see you guys in two weeks here. Something along those lines.

[Brian Barrett]

I said it in that voice too.

[Leah Feigar]

Yes, exactly. Wrote it in Comic Sans, 100%. And yeah, we will see each other in two weeks on this. I'm sort of wondering how, frankly, I'm not sure how much the world capital W was 100% paying attention to this anyway. And in two weeks it feels like that's gonna be even less so because it's just yet another Trump bluff. And the boy who called World War 3 is a very scary thing because at some point. Is this real?

[Brian Barrett]

Yeah. And it makes it very hard. I think there's people talk about the madman theory of politics, right. Which is Richard Nixon famously thought that if people thought he was erratic and unpredictable, then they wouldn't be able to sort of famously.

[Leah Feigar]

This is a theory that people in the Trump administration like, joke about.

[Brian Barrett]

Yeah. And the difference is that Nixon was pretending to be a madman, whereas Trump feels very much settled into the role. We had some similar situations in the First Trump administration with North Korea, right, Where Trump was sort of very overtly threatening. I'm going to push the big red button and my button's bigger than yours and I'm going to send a nuke to North Korea. Which again, in retrospect was like, oh, well, he was just being Trump. But when Trump being Trump equals taking the world to the brink of the nuclear age, and he seems fully capable of doing it, no, it's really alarming. I do want to. Leah, in your point, I don't want it to get lost. You were saying, I'm not sure how much the world was paying attention. Can you expand on that a little bit? Like, do you feel like there's just so much noise from Trump's true social account that people have tuned it out by now?

[Leah Feigar]

Yes, yes and no. Obviously this was the headline. CNN had a countdown clock. Like there was a very specific corner of the world that was keeping the closest eye on this. I had a hard time working yesterday, cuz I was like constantly checking my phone, checking in with sources. Which is all to say though, having conversations with friends that are politically minded who are going like, yeah, pretty wild. But like, yet another Trump tweet, yet another Trump message. I haven't seen wild call outs from the people that you would sort of expect them to happen from, I suppose. And I'm speaking in a more global sense, I think that the world has been very hard hit by Iranian war already. Like, this is, you know, Madagascar yesterday quite literally declared a state of emergency over the energy situation. Clearly there have been very serious impacts already. I'm. I really, I guess maybe this isn't fair of me, but I really do think of this in so many ways as when we really do have to pay attention, will people be able to do so? I keep thinking about how quickly everyone moved on from Venezuela, the US Kidnapped the sitting leader.

[Brian Barrett]

Are you still in jail in New York?

[Leah Feigar]

Still in jail in New York City, like quite literally blocks away from where I am right now. Being able to pay attention, being able to like really care about this. I don't know. What do you think? I feel like you're giving everyone a little bit more credit than I am.

[Brian Barrett]

I don't know. It's a weird thing where I feel like people in real life that I have talked to seemed aware of it, but also kind of resigned to it is like another thing, but I think that's kind of where we're at. The last thing I was saying this too is this is like, it's such a Classic Trump deal in that it seems like it's not really a deal at all. It's, it's a sort of, yeah, we've got a framework. It seems like it's on the right track. Meanwhile, there are still bombs flying in the region, but the US Is involved. Maybe there, maybe bitcoin will have something to do with the, like it is just throwing in. It's that perfect combination of vagueness and seediness that is the hallmark.

[Leah Feigar]

And also claims that the US Is gonna financially benefit. Yeah, we're gonna supposedly now. The strait that was once free for passage is now going to be charging a fee shared between Iran and Oman. But also maybe the US Is getting into it. The news coming out of this is also changing moment to moment. It's so hard to figure out what we're paying attention to. And it feels very seedy. Yes, it all feels very seedy. I'm sorry, did we wage war to have to charge a toll? Like what's happening here?

[Brian Barrett]

It sounds like maybe in terms of things that are maybe not seedy, but tawdry, or at least you kind of can't get enough in a voyeuristic way. I want to talk about the OpenAI Elon Musk feud. There is a trial that's going to be headed to courts later this month. But in the meantime, on Monday, Leah OpenAI sent a letter to the California and Delaware attorney general urging them to investigate, quote, improper and anti competitive behavior by Musk and his associates, including Mark Zuckerberg, who was allegedly one of those associates. Again, this is all alleged. We got to get that, make that very clear. All this behavior is alleged for some background who aren't familiar with Musk and OpenAI's history, because I think a lot of people maybe aren't. Musk is a co founder of OpenAI. He sued the company and his CEO Sam Altman back in 2024, accusing them of violating OpenAI's founding mission as it restructured itself from a nonprofit to a for profit organization. The idea of OpenAI when it started was we're going to have this nonprofit thing that is going to research AI for the benefit of humanity, make sure it's aligned, make sure that this very powerful force can be harnessed for good. And then they started making billions of dollars and spending trillions of dollars in that sort of fell by the wayside a bit. Altman and Musk have a long history of throwing jabs at each other's expense. OpenAI, I mean, you seem somewhat frustrated with them. You were one of the big contributors early on. The reason I am the reason OpenAI exists.

[Alex Barker]

Do you think Musk's approach then is

[Brian Barrett]

from a position of insecurity? Probably his whole life is from a position of insecurity. I feel for the guy. You feel that? I do, actually. I don't think he's like a happy person. I do feel for him. Musk's defense team doubled down on Tuesday, requesting that if he wins the case that's coming up later this month, he is going to demand that OpenAI CEO Sam Altman and President Greg Brockman need to be removed from their roles as officers in the company, and OpenAI needs to return to being a nonprofit. Not sure what power he actually has to compel those things, but the fact that he's really going for it, I think shows just how vitriolic this situation has become.

[Leah Feigar]

I love the gossip. I'm sorry. This is so entertaining. The boys are fighting. We're talking about like multi billion dollar companies here.

[Brian Barrett]

This is so much money and it's very messy. And I think OpenAI, apologies to any OpenAI people listening to this podcast has been messy in general lately. You know, we've talked a lot about the revolving door of people leaving the company, people coming back to the company. You know, they had a big executive shakeup this week. They, they bought a podcast this week. It's. It is all over the place.

[Leah Feigar]

Shout out to tbpn, the other tech podcast.

[Brian Barrett]

Yep, yep. There's a lot of mess going around in general. And then you have Elon Musk coming in, who is trying to sort of upset the apple cart even further. And I think as a background to all this too, SpaceX, Elon Musk. SpaceX reportedly filed confidentially for an IPO last week, so they are at a very momentous time. I think everyone's racing to be to hit the IPO market, whether it's OpenAI, SpaceX, Anthropic, and SpaceX out the door first. So a lot going on here and

[Leah Feigar]

Musk is betting that SpaceX will be valued at nearly 2 trillion, which would be the largest IPO in history. This again, like the backyard squabbles, it feels like so much more. How incremental do you think is the back and forth, though, between the Musk and Altman camps? Like, what are we? Does this actually mark a very big juncture in this case or not really just something that you're paying close attention to?

[Brian Barrett]

No, I feel like this is something where it's Elon trying to twist the knife a little Bit more, I think using every opportunity to dig in and extract maximum impact if he's able to succeed. I do think this case will be really, really interesting. Assuming they don't settle, which maybe they'll settle, maybe this all goes away. But they both seem really entrenched. So the case will be really interesting because I feel like all of these AI companies have acted pretty much with impunity from the start. There's no real regulatory pressure. The only pressure is among each other and between each other for hiring, basically because there's infinite money and there's infinite scope. So it feels like the first real sort of hit the brakes moment, potentially. If Musk is somehow able to pull out a win in court.

[Leah Feigar]

Is this a good time for SpaceX to go public?

[Brian Barrett]

It's a good question. I do think there is pressure to go public. I think there's only so many $2 trillion IPOs that the market can kind of like hang onto. And, you know, remember when we talk about SpaceX, it's not just rockets anymore, it's also XAI. And it's X. It is so much of Elon Musk's empire rolled up into one. And so it would unlock a ton of capital for them to keep building up their data centers, to keep building compute. It would make them the first big AI company to go public other than, you know, not counting, obviously. Google is a big AI company. Alphabet has been public for a long time. So it is a chance to sort of get out there first. One thing I want to note, though, I don't know if you saw, and this is a side note, but it's another thing about Elon Musk. Extracting as much as he can out of everything he can is the way he operates. He is making any bank that wants to sort of pitch their services for the ipo, they all have to subscribe to grok. They all have to be XAI customers.

[Leah Feigar]

Incredible.

[Brian Barrett]

On a really big scale like that actually is like material money. Because these banks have thousands of employees. They're all going to have to go on grok. Just a really, I think not the usual way these things work, but it is in muskworld.

[Leah Feigar]

Yeah, there's no usual in Muskworld. I think that that ship sailed a very long time ago. But that is kind of wild. I'm so curious to see where that happens. And I also, I mean, it's hard to not talk about Elon and Sam as political players. Like they're having these business squabbles that are taking place in a very large stage, not just because of how much money, but also because they like invariably different ways have the ear of different people in the Trump administration.

[Brian Barrett]

And just I think last thing on this, you mentioned them as political players. Absolutely. OpenAI on Monday of this week released a big policy document saying here's how we think the post AGI world needs to work in terms of policy. Here are some policy points that are going to prepare the world for, for where we're headed. There's a certain audacity to that. There's a certain trying to own the narrative to that, but it does speak to yes, these are extremely political players.

[Leah Feigar]

Let's talk about another fun part of politics, everything, which is voter data. Ryan, don't you love voter data?

[Brian Barrett]

I love voter data. I love voter data when it is kept private and kept in my state and people can't use it to cross reference for bad things.

[Leah Feigar]

Well, I have a murmur of a story for you.

[Brian Barrett]

Oh no, Leah, no.

[Leah Feigar]

Well, last week we learned in a court hearing in Rhode Island a Department of justice lawyer misled a judge about what the agency has been doing with voter roll data. So this DOJ lawyer, Eric Neff, who's the acting chief of the DoJ's voting section, said that nothing had been done with this information. But, but then our colleague David Gilbert reported that he later backtracked that statement and actually admitted that the preliminary internal data analysis of the non public voter registration data has begun, which is a slightly complicated way to say, yeah, your voter data in certain states is being taken and being processed. And in the DOJ's case, they're looking for anomalies. They're trying to find people that they think should not be voting. This is part of a larger voter roll campaign that's been led by the doj. It started last year when the agencies sent letters to election officials in almost every single state asking for unredacted voter rolls. That includes Social Security numbers, driver's licenses, dates of birth and addresses. A lot of states have pushed back and so the DOJ has actually sued 30 of them to force them to comply. Eric Neff this lawyer disclosed that the DOJ intends to share the state voter roll data with the Department of Homeland Security. The goal is to run this through a DHS system called Save Again to check for non citizens, deceased individuals, et cetera. I want to be so clear here that in all of the studies that have happened about non citizen voting, it is teeny, teeny tiny. We're talking like 30 people across many, many millions of votes. Like, this is not a real issue, obviously, the Trump administration has made this an issue. The DOJ has now made this an issue. And it's pretty wild in this voter data. It's not just, oh, this person voted Democrat, this person voted Republican. I just want to say, again, this is your very personal information that is being pooled together in a way that it's not supposed to be. And a lot of states are really, really upset about it.

[Brian Barrett]

Yeah. And I, I want to also just take a step back, too. Like, we need to get into the data privacy and the way they're using this. But I think there's also just the. I think there are two possibilities here with nef. Right. Neither of which is encouraging. One is he intentionally misled the court and then thought better of it the next day. Two, which I would argue is equally as alarming. He just didn't know.

[Leah Feigar]

Right.

[Brian Barrett]

He just didn't know what was going on with the data, which is. Suggests a casualness with how this is being used and a lack of oversight with how this is being used that I think regardless of any other factors, is really concerning.

[Leah Feigar]

I 100% agree. David Becker, who's the head of the center for Election Innovation and Research, and he's also a former Justice Department lawyer, talked to David Gilbert for this story and basically said the same thing, which is just like, this is so concerning. And I'm aware that it's this small moment, the specific state case, but is indicative of this larger, larger trend.

[Brian Barrett]

It also comes at a time, Leah, that the DOJ's Acting Chief Privacy Officer has resigned. Not really a high priority for them to fill that role, I'm guessing. You know, we talked about this a little bit, I think, last week, too, this sort of full court press from the Trump administration to get access to this data. And I want to mention why it is compartmentalized, is because voting is fundamentally a state issue or even more local than that, and that actually helps make it more secure because there's no one big switch that you can flip that says steal the vote.

[Astronaut / Narrator]

Right.

[Brian Barrett]

As much as Trump thinks there is, it comes down to local workers, local municipalities, state secretaries of state running their own systems securely. As you said, there's no indication that this is a real problem, but they're going to keep going until they make it one.

[Sponsor Voice]

Yeah.

[Leah Feigar]

And especially this is really not going to be pettering that quietly behind in the background either. Last week, after Donald Trump effectively fired his Attorney General, Pam Bondi, a lot of election deniers, as Wired reported again today, are really frothing for more and potential candidates that would be able to actually lean even further into election denial and make this process as convoluted and complicated as possible. I'm a little bit nervous. I'm a little bit nervous, I have to say. Pam Bondi's resignation firing aside, I think that there's a lot more that we're gonna see from the DOJ in the coming weeks and months when it comes to the midterm elections.

[Brian Barrett]

Before we go to break, let's talk about something that this week captured our attention not because it makes us anxious or afraid, but makes us filled with joy and awe. The Artemis II launch. And Here we go. 10, 9. The mission shuttle, with a crew of four astronauts, lifts off smoothly on April 1st. Booster ignition and lift off. The crew of Artemis 2 now bound for the moon. And as you've probably heard by now, Artemis 2 is the first crewed flight to orbit the moon since the Apollo 17 mission in 1972. It's pretty remarkable in and of itself, but it also goes further than that. For one, they've officially traveled further away from Earth than any humans have before. Good for humanity. We need some winds. We're putting them on the board. But it's also, they're going to be testing whether NASA can send a crew to the moon itself to land there without any issues. That means testing the spacecraft's life support systems that are put in place for the astronaut, hopefully laying the foundation for an enduring human presence on the moon. And then possibly, maybe after that, although it's a little bit up in the air right now, Mars. Leah, I know that you have strong feelings about Artemis 2. What has stood out to you on this journey?

[Leah Feigar]

So I actually didn't get to watch it live because it was the first or second night of Passover. And I remember being like, ugh, that's a bummer. I would love to go and do this. The next day, I decided, I wanna relive this. I just read some amazing descriptions of what this was like, and it got me. I mean, this crew has already broken so many records. They've traveled farther from Earth than any ever have. They broke the distance record previously held by Apollo 13. Since 1970, they passed behind the moon. The photographs of them passing behind the moon, which is again, one of the longest communications blackout in human spaceflight history. Forty minutes before they reestablished contact with mission control. Just feats of humanity like you are, it is truly where no person has gone before. They saw features of the lunar far side that have never Been seen, seen by human eyes. Just really shocking, incredible, awe inspiring stuff. And not to mention, and this is me revealing just really how much I love reality tv, I suppose I love the characters here. I love every single one of the astronauts. They are posting these incredible videos and sharing that awe and joy of their spaceflight with others. It's not just about breaking the records. It's not just all like serious all the time. You know, one of my favorites recently was like showing the food that they're eating and like how they're rehydrating their shrimp packets.

[Brian Barrett]

Yeah. The jar of Nutella floating quietly through the shuttle.

[Leah Feigar]

Yeah, it's lovely. It's so lovely and special.

[Brian Barrett]

I'll say. If you haven't had a chance to see the pictures taken by the astronauts, which Leah, I know you have, but they've taken a bunch of photos along the way with high quality equipment, telescopic lenses. We have several of them on wired to interject a little tiny downer. In this celebration of joy and all that humanity can achieve, there is a rampant corner of the Internet that insists that all this is fake and all this is AI and da da, da, da.

[Leah Feigar]

I knew you were going to bring this.

[Brian Barrett]

Yeah, just briefly.

[Leah Feigar]

This is setting me to my core in like a very intense way. I see conspiracy theories online on a daily basis. Like most people in a very specific corner of the Internet think that not only is, like, former President Joe Biden dead, but that he's been dead for a very long time. Like, I am used to that. But for whatever reason, this is really getting me. I get that this is the original conspiracy theory. Did man actually land on the moon? But very upsetting. Very upsetting, Brian.

[Brian Barrett]

Okay, but back, let's take it back to something nice and joyful. Then we're gonna pull it back from that. Just had to mention it, had to say it. But there were some deeply human moments along the way. And Lee, I know that this resonated with you as well. Astronaut Jeremy Hansen told NASA's Kelsey Young during the flight that the crew would like to name some craters on the moon that they could currently see. Again. They're seeing parts of the moon that had not been seen by human eyes. So a lot of branding opportunities, a lot of naming opportunities for one of the craters they named. The team proposed naming it Carol. And Carol is a tribute to Artemis ii, Commander Reid Weissman's late wife, who died of cancer in 2020. And we can listen to that here.

[Astronaut / Narrator]

So we lost a loved one. Her name was Carol, the spouse of Reed, the mother of Katie and Ellie. And if you want to find this one, you look at Glushko, and it's just to the northwest of that, at the same latitude as Om. And it's a bright spot on the moon. And we would like to call it Carroll. And you spell that. C, A, R, R, O, L.

[Leah Feigar]

It's so emotional. This is. Yeah, we needed that this week. We needed this. I mean, part of why this feels so special is. Cause I know, perhaps just like the Olympics. Brian, maybe. Thank goodness Zoe isn't here, but this is one of the increasingly rare events that can really just unify and capture imagination and attention in such a specific way. It's been beautiful to witness. I love it.

[Brian Barrett]

I like the suggestion that Zoe maybe hates spaceflight as well.

[Leah Feigar]

Yeah, I'm throwing it out there. I'm spreading that rumor.

[Brian Barrett]

She's not here.

[Leah Feigar]

Just like the Olympics.

[Brian Barrett]

As far as we know.

[Leah Feigar]

As far as we know.

[Brian Barrett]

One thing about this. So it's. There is a contrast between how much everyone is rightly celebrating this and what a terrific moment it is for the United States, for humanity. I keep saying the word humanity, but it's true.

[Leah Feigar]

It is true.

[Brian Barrett]

At the same time, the White House is proposing cutting NASA's budget by 24%. It's already been cut several times. There's a lot of tension at NASA both between how much of spaceflight is going to be supported by private companies like SpaceX or I guess soon to be public companies, versus NASA. What's NASA's role in all of this? If we do set up shop on the moon, is that going to be from the private sector developing lunar bases and a Mars spacecraft, while at the same time, NASA just kind of like seeds its role. Right. That's sort of what we've seen happening and will continue to happen. Fortunately, Artemis missions are planned up through 2030 at least. I think the plan is to actually land humans on the moon by 2030. So we've at least got a few more good years of this mission and learnings from it. But it does sort of make you remember a time when it's okay for the government to do things. It's not the worst thing in the world.

[Leah Feigar]

It's like, really okay for the government to do the fun things. I mean, yeah, watching NASA get doged last year as well, and watching different young, inexperienced technologists all of a sudden enter this very storied government agency, there was very much a moment of like, is nothing sacred? Like, truly, is nothing sacred? So I'm very glad that there is some very specific funding in place that will outlive some certain administrations perhaps. But you know, I'm very curious, especially as it comes to SpaceX, especially as it comes to NASA administrator Jared Isaacman, who is a big ally of Elon Musk. This was apparently one of the big fighting points between Musk and Trump. And Musk and the Trump administration was saying that he wanted Jared Isaacman to be in this role.

[Brian Barrett]

And Isaacman had committed the sin, Am I right? He had committed the sin of the donating to a Democrat at some point in his life.

[Leah Feigar]

Yes, exactly. Exactly. And so, you know, when we're talking private versus public, what can the government do? What can they not? There is still this like very slimy undertone that thankfully I am able to mostly forget when I am viewing the beautiful, beautiful images of the far side of the moon. But you always remind me of Brian. You always remind me of.

[Brian Barrett]

Yeah, and we'll always have the Nutella.

[Leah Feigar]

And we'll always have the Nutella and the rehydrated shrimp. Coming up after the break, we're going to share our Wired and Tired picks for the week. Stay with us.

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[Leah Feigar]

Okay, it is time for our Wired and Tired segment. Whatever is new and cool is wired. And whatever passe thing we're over is tired. Brian, you go first.

[Brian Barrett]

I am so excited to share with you and with the world that scientists have made a french fry breakthrough.

[Leah Feigar]

Huge. Say more.

[Brian Barrett]

This is Wired. So some researchers, some food researchers have spent a long time studying french fries. And the problem with french fries, Lea, not that they have any problems really, they're perfect. And I won't have them besmirched on this podcast. But in order to get the real crispiness, you gotta throw away the air fryer, you gotta dunk em in oil and they absorb the oil and they get really crispy and delicious. But also that's a lot of like, fatty badness that you're putting into your body. However, what these scientists have realized, have figured out is that if you, instead of just deep frying, you combine microwaving with frying, you can cut down the actual amount of oil that the fry absorbs by a significant margin without sacrificing any of that crispy, crunchy goodness. So they have developed a microwave fryer to get the best of both worlds. The perfect Goldilocks french fry. And they hope to, you know, make it something that can be more commercialized or spread out soon. So no, I have not actually tasted one of these miracle fries, but I look forward to doing so. And I guess my tired then is the old way to do french fries. Tired. I'm over it. Get rid of that deep fryer.

[Leah Feigar]

Tired. Done. Okay, well, I can't wait for this to become a public commodity. I'm looking forward to it. Um, mine is also, I guess, in the commodity space, my Wired. And this is not a new cool thing. So I'm vaguely embarrassed. However, when I told you about this right before during the break, you had never heard of it. So I'm, I'm going ahead.

[Brian Barrett]

I'm ready to deny that now if it's going to make me look stupid on the show. What do you mean? Of course I know what it is. Of course. Of course I've heard of it.

[Leah Feigar]

No, no, it's it's very niche.

[Brian Barrett]

Okay.

[Leah Feigar]

This is the RealReal app. This is this company that I feel like a couple of years ago sort of took like the vintage resale market by storm. It's specifically luxury goods, so we're talking about like, vintage Gucci, but for a lot less. It's great. It is. You know, put your. The collection of your favorite vintage stores basically online. You kind of sell to the app, but then they sell it for you. They take a cut, et cetera, et cetera.

[Astronaut / Narrator]

And.

[Leah Feigar]

And I love it. And I've recently been turning to it more and more. Cause I've decided that I really can't be reading the news the minute that I'm going to sleep and the minute that I'm waking up. And so instead I'm like, okay, if I really feel the need to scroll and I want like 5 minutes of screen time, but I want to, like, detach myself a little bit more from the news. I'm just like, quite literally looking through

[Brian Barrett]

beautiful vintage designer bags, heavily discounted luxury goods.

[Leah Feigar]

Yeah.

[Brian Barrett]

So lull yourself to sleep.

[Leah Feigar]

Yep. Mm.

[Brian Barrett]

Leah, I love this for you.

[Leah Feigar]

I'm loving it. I'm loving it so much. Zoe, you know, not to mention our not here friend again, but Zoe recently was like, you have sent me a lot of listings. Are you okay? And I was like, yes, this is my new hobby. This is what I like. And again, I think part of this is my tired is sort of buying new things. I'm trying very, very hard to lower my consumption generally. And so this has been like a fun every once in a while purchase, but mostly just like the scroll. I'm loving the scroll. It's so good. RealReal sponsor me.

[Brian Barrett]

I feel like it's better than, like, Instagram reels. Right? It's a little bit less mindless. You're helping the environment by giving old Gucci bags new homes.

[Leah Feigar]

Yeah. Really excited.

[Brian Barrett]

That's our show for today. We'll link to all the stories we spoke about today in the show. Notes. Uncanny Valley is produced by Kaleidoscope Content. Adriana Tapia produced this episode. It was mixed by Amar Lal at macrosound. Pran Bandy is our New York studio engineer. Kimberly Chua is our senior Digital Production manager. Kate Osborne is our executive producer. And Katie Drummond is Wired's Global Editorial director.

[Jason Howell]

Hey, Wired listeners, I'm Jason Howell. And I'm Jeff Jarvis. On AI Inside, we cut through all the AI noise with curiosity and a bit of humor. Every week, we spend an hour unpacking the breakthroughs that matter and we reality check them with industry pioneers like Yann Lecun and Sal Khan and critics like Emily Bender. We're learning alongside you, making the complexity of AI make sense to all of us. Want AI news that informs and doesn't inflame? Subscribe to the AI Inside podcast wherever you get your podcasts

[Astronaut / Narrator]

from PRX.