The Tech Behind McLaren Racing’s F1 Dominance

Summary

Podcast Summary: Uncanny Valley | WIRED

Episode: The Tech Behind McLaren Racing’s F1 Dominance
Host: Katie Drummond (WIRED’s Global Editorial Director)
Guest: Zak Brown (CEO, McLaren Racing)
Date: June 2, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of WIRED’s Uncanny Valley features an in-depth interview between Katie Drummond and Zak Brown, CEO of McLaren Racing. The discussion explores McLaren’s dramatic resurgence in Formula 1, delving into the pivotal role that technology, team culture, and fan engagement have played. It also addresses broader trends: the Americanization of F1, the impact of media (notably Netflix’s “Drive to Survive”), the fanbase’s evolution, and the cutting-edge tech driving McLaren’s current dominance on the track.

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Zak Brown’s Personal Journey into Racing

[04:57]

• Early Inspiration: Zak’s first exposure to Grand Prix racing was the 1981 Long Beach Grand Prix at age 10, sparking a lifelong passion.
• Game Show Origin Story: As a teenager, Zak won $3,000 on “Wheel of Fortune,” which he spent on expensive Cartier watches before pawning them to buy his first go-kart—marking his true entry into motorsport.
  • “What does a 13-year-old want with some very nice Cartier watches?” – Zak Brown [06:06]
• Independence: Raised by supportive but financially constrained parents, Zak found creative ways to barter and self-fund his drive to race, including bartering airline tickets for sponsorship.
  • “I was definitely a very independent teen.” – Zak Brown [07:03]
• Transition from Driver to Business: After 10 years as a driver, his talent for sponsorship led to the creation of a successful motorsports agency, eventually culminating in his leadership role at McLaren.

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Transforming McLaren: Leadership, Culture, and Commercial Strategy

[10:42]

• Initial Challenges: Zak inherited a McLaren team steeped in history but struggling with arrogance and poor results.
  • “We were ninth in the championship. Our employees were not happy. … As I say, other than that, everything was great.” – Zak Brown [12:00]
• Rebuilding Leadership: The turnaround started with changing the leadership team and redefining the culture—moving away from being “Darth Vader” to a more approachable, fan-centric identity (“papaya” orange branding).
• Commercial Growth: Under Zak, McLaren’s sponsorship revenue soared from under $50 million to nearly $500 million. Bringing in Dell as an early major sponsor catalyzed a snowball of tech partnerships.
  • “Success begets success.” – Katie Drummond [13:33]
• Fan Engagement: McLaren shifted to a transparent, inclusive organization—now identified as the “most loved and least disliked racing team.”
  • “We were kind of a dark, unfriendly team. I called us Darth Vader… but Luke Skywalker is the good guy.” – Zak Brown [14:19]

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The Dynamics of F1 Fandom

[14:59]

• Team vs. Driver Loyalties: F1 is unique—fans follow both teams and individual drivers. The intra-team rivalry (e.g., between Lando Norris and Oscar Piastri) can also polarize fans.
  • “When they become each other’s biggest rivals… when you’re a fan of one, it makes you not a fan of the other because you want your guy to win.” – Zak Brown [16:03]
• Building Narratives: While McLaren doesn’t manufacture drama, it recognizes and embraces the power of storytelling and rivalries to engage fans.
  • “We try and get our fans to be papaya fans. … But when they want to win, they start to see them as the rival, even though we’re inside the same team.” – Zak Brown [16:03]
• Surprises from Fans: Zak appreciates passionate, positive fan interactions (kids decorating rooms, marriage proposals at events) but notes the dark side—the “2%” who send abusive messages or threats.
  • “The 2%, which sometimes are louder than the 98%, are, quite frankly, shocking… And that’s pretty disappointing. You gotta just ignore it…” – Zak Brown [19:21]

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Expanding the Fanbase: Diversity, Women, and Youth

[19:42]

• Growth in U.S. and Beyond: After Liberty Media’s acquisition, a new focus on North America and inclusivity (fueled by “Drive to Survive”) opened up F1 to new audiences.
• Women and Younger Fans: The share of women and youth in the fanbase has increased dramatically—75% of new fans fall into these categories, with dedicated efforts at McLaren to promote STEM and diversity in both the workforce and among fans.
  • “We have a racing series with the only team that has two female racing drivers in what’s called the F1 Academy.” – Zak Brown [20:28]
• Accessible Events: McLaren organizes events beyond racetracks, like Miami Live and appearances at the Apollo Theater, to connect with the vast majority of fans who may never attend a live race.

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The Apple Deal: F1’s New Media Landscape

[26:06]

• Streaming Shift: Apple now has exclusive F1 broadcasting rights—initial concerns about paywalls have been offset by a reported 30% increase in viewership.
• Tech-Forward Approach: The partnership leverages improved production quality, data access, and multi-platform accessibility, aligning with F1’s identity as a technology-driven sport.
  • “There was concern by some, myself included, that anytime you go behind paywall, are you going to lose an audience? Reality is…they’re up over, I think, 30%.” – Zak Brown [26:26]

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The Tech Behind McLaren’s F1 Dominance

[27:48]

• Scale of Operations: Around 1,000 staff dedicated to building and operating two race cars (“80,000 parts” per car, changing constantly across the season).
  • “If you take the car at the beginning of the year…by the end of the year, it would be last. … We live in a prototype world.” – Zak Brown [28:24]
• Aero and Data: Most effort is devoted to maximizing aerodynamics and downforce—using 300 sensors, collecting 1.5 terabytes of data per weekend, and running 50 million simulations per race week.
• Industry-Defining Partnerships: Tech giants Dell (computing), Cisco (communications), Google (AI via Gemini), and Intel are deeply integrated, helping showcase new technology through F1.
• Transferable Innovations: Many technologies pioneered in F1—carbon fiber chassis, paddle shifters, hybrid systems, and even material science applied to medtech and marine biology—have migrated to road cars and other industries.
  • “We were the first Formula 1 team in the early 80s to have the first ever carbon fiber chassis. Now every road car…has a carbon fiber chassis.” – Zak Brown [31:14]

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The Future: Sustainability and AI

[33:11]

• Next-Gen Materials: Active projects include developing fully recyclable race cars and more sustainable manufacturing.
• AI Everywhere: From race strategy to fan engagement and operations, AI is embedded throughout the organization.
  • “We’re using AI everywhere…design of the race car, engagement with our fans, operational efficiency… It’s early days, which is exciting.” – Zak Brown [33:32]
  • “AI…could actually help create the better McLaren vehicle of the future.” – Katie Drummond [34:19]
  • “100%. 100%.” – Zak Brown [34:33]

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F1’s Business Model and Financial Growth

[35:04]

• Revenue Breakdown: McLaren makes about £700 million/year (“billion-ish” dollars), with over 75% from sponsorships, plus licensing, merchandise, and league payouts.
• NFL Comparison: F1 teams now rival U.S. NFL franchises in revenue and profitability, but the league’s (F1’s) business scale still lags behind the NFL.
  • “It’s a global business. It has NFL type revenues for the teams…” – Zak Brown [35:28]

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Advice to New Fans

[37:05]

• Getting Started: Experiencing a live race is ideal, but not realistic for most; instead, Zak suggests a multi-screen experience at home—following live telemetry, team radio, in-car cameras, and strategy tools online alongside the broadcast.
  • “You can set up on your kitchen table, kind of a whole scene… Once you get immersed… it really draws you in.” – Zak Brown [38:28]

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Reflecting on the Driver’s Mindset

[38:51]

• Missing the Wheel: Zak admits to occasional “FOMO” for driving, but regulations prevent him from testing current cars; he still drives heritage McLarens and fosters close relationships with team drivers.
  • “It’s good to know what you don’t know.” – Katie Drummond [39:20]
  • “I go around trying to see how can I help everyone be better at their job. …I love being in the race, and I still definitely am…just not driving the race car.” – Zak Brown [39:22]

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Memorable Game Segment: Control, Alt, Delete

[42:50]

• Control: Would like to bring back sequential gearboxes for more driver control.
• Alt: Wants to alter battery reliance, shifting toward improved internal combustion and hybrid systems with sustainable fuels.
• Delete: Wishes to “delete silence,” bringing back more visceral engine sound (not “anti-socially” loud, but more exciting than current hybrid/turbo units).
  • “I don’t think I’ve ever had someone delete silence.” – Katie Drummond [44:08]
  • “I’m deleting silence.” – Zak Brown [44:18]

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Standout Quotes

• “The problem isn’t the masses. The problem is the leadership… That was not any one person's responsibility. It was the leadership team as a whole. So I set out focusing on the people.” – Zak Brown [12:00]
• “We want to be the most exciting and most engaged sports team in the world. We want everyone to feel part of McLaren.” – Zak Brown [21:44]
• “AI is going to continue to help us learn quicker. I think that will ultimately end up in new discoveries as well.” – Zak Brown [34:09]

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Key Timestamps

• [04:57] Zak Brown’s first race and “Wheel of Fortune” origin story
• [10:42] Early challenges at McLaren & leadership overhaul
• [14:59] Culture shift & fan engagement strategies
• [19:42] Expanding to new audiences, women and youth in F1
• [26:06] Apple streaming deal and its impact
• [27:48] Behind-the-scenes technology and R&D for F1 cars
• [33:11] The future—sustainable innovation and integration of AI
• [35:04] Financials of F1 and McLaren business model
• [37:05] How to become an F1 fan: practical advice
• [42:50] "Control, Alt, Delete" technology game

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Tone & Atmosphere

The conversation is candid, energetic, and lightly self-deprecating (especially from host Katie Drummond, who jokes about lacking a driver’s license). Zak Brown is affable, honest, and clearly passionate—not just about racing, but about people, technological innovation, and winning the hearts of fans around the world.

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Summary for Non-Listeners

This episode gives an insider’s look at McLaren’s spectacular turnaround and F1’s tech-forward, inclusive, and business-savvy future. If you’re curious about the intersection of sport, innovation, fan culture, and high-stakes business, this is a must-listen—and an invitation to fall in love with F1, no matter your starting point.

Transcript

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[Katie Drummond]

From Wired this is the big interview where we'll get to know the people beyond the headlines in conversations that explore the intersection of technology, power and culture. I'm Katie Drummond, Wired's global editorial director. Formula One auto racing, or F1, is already very popular overseas, and in the past few years it's broken into the US In a big way. Much of that success can be attributed to the sport's representation in movies and on streaming platforms. Netflix has a series, Formula One Drive to Survive that's now in its eighth season, and you may remember that among the Oscar contenders for Best Picture this year was the Blockbuster named, fittingly, F1, starring none other than Brad Pitt as a race car driver. But in the world of auto racing, one team in particular has made a huge comeback. McLaren Racing, one of the sport's oldest teams, won three World Championships between 2024 and 2025. Each marked the first time the team has clinched those titles in decades. And at the helm of the storied racing franchise is CEO Zach Brown, who's credited with much of the team's recent success. He. He joins me now to talk about all this and more. Welcome, Zach.

[Zach Brown]

Thank you for having me on.

[Katie Drummond]

We're thrilled to have you. I'm so excited to talk, and I need to start with a confession. I need to start by leveling with you here. Wired covers sports a little bit, particularly on YouTube. We have just fanatical audience for auto racing. Anything F1 people go absolutely crazy. But I have to admit, I'm the global editorial director, which is a fancy way of saying I'm the editor in chief. I'm not an expert in everything that we do here at Wired. And cars and driving is not my strong suit. I do not have a driver's license. But I do know that F1 has been breaking through in the US in a significant way. We're gonna get into the specifics of it all. You're gonna teach me more about auto racing. You're gonna talk to me about cars. I wanna learn. I wanna understand this world. I think our listeners do, too. But first, I wanna actually start with your personal story, because it's a fascinating one in terms of how you got to where you are now. And I understand that it started with watches, and it started with Wheel of Fortune. So take us back many, many years to the origin story of Zach Brown.

[Zach Brown]

I don't think any of us can be experts at everything. I'm certainly not an expert at all things McLaren Racing.

[Katie Drummond]

I just always laugh when I'm talking about cars because literally cannot drive one.

[Zach Brown]

Yeah, okay. All right, Fair enough. Fair enough. I would never be able to be,

[Katie Drummond]

but I have Wired. I mean, there are people in the Wired newsroom who were, like, begging to come listen to this taping. They are such massive F1 fans. So, like, I understand the power of Formula One. The power of Formula One. Like, this is a cultural phenomena that I experience in the newsroom. I just. I don't know as much about it as I would like to.

[Zach Brown]

Yep. Well, we're gonna.

[Katie Drummond]

We're gonna change that.

[Zach Brown]

We're gonna. We're gonna change that today.

[Katie Drummond]

Okay.

[Zach Brown]

Yeah. Where did I get started? So I'm originally From Los Angeles. My first ever grand prix was the 1981 Long Beach Grand Prix. I remember it like it was yesterday. I remember meeting my first racing driver, getting my first autograph. And the speed and the sou of the visceral experience. I was 10 years old, a lot older now. And a couple years later, I was able to go on Wheel of Fortune. Teen week, Teen week, Teen week. So I was 13 years old. Won the first two rounds. The Smurfs. I knew who the Smurfs were.

[Katie Drummond]

Okay, good.

[Zach Brown]

Wild Bill Hickok. I need to rely on Wikipedia to tell me who Wild Bill Hickok was. But I got the spelling right. Then one. And you do what you do. Is 13 years old. As you look immediately at. What's the most expensive thing I can buy.

[Katie Drummond]

How much money are we talking about here?

[Zach Brown]

$3,050, I think it was. Or 3,000. Yeah.

[Katie Drummond]

Not an insignificant sum of money.

[Zach Brown]

And went to the top of the list, which happened to be his and her watches, which kind of, as it came out of my mouth was, what does a 13 year old want with some very nice Cartier watches?

[Katie Drummond]

Wow.

[Zach Brown]

Then went back to the Long Beach Grand Prix in 1987 with my buddy in high school. Met Mario and Jeretti, and I was very intimidated. Now I wanted to kind of get into racing. And I asked him, how do you get started? He said, karting. I knew, or I assumed my parents wouldn't help me with that.

[Katie Drummond]

Carding. You mean go karting?

[Zach Brown]

Go karting, Yep. That's kind of where you get the little League if you'd like. Even though it's very serious. And I thought, ah, I know I can pay for this. I got some watches in my. In my drawer that I've. I think I'm gonna take to a Van Nuys pawn shop. Went and sold them, got some. They never asked me, why do you have these watches today? I'd probably, they'd, you know, not pass the KYC test. In a pawn shop. Sold them, bought a go kart, and that's how I got started.

[Katie Drummond]

And your parents were. Yes. Sell these watches, buy a go kart?

[Podcast Sponsor Announcer]

No.

[Katie Drummond]

I'm not sure.

[Zach Brown]

I ran the idea past them. They were my watches.

[Katie Drummond]

An independent teen.

[Zach Brown]

Exactly.

[Katie Drummond]

They were your watches.

[Zach Brown]

Yeah. I was definitely a very independent team.

[Katie Drummond]

But from there you actually had a career as a driver. Tell us about that. For 10 years.

[Zach Brown]

For 10 years. So I was successful in karting. So then I wanted to pursue my dream of Formula one. Requires sponsorship. My family wasn't in a position to support Me much, you know, certainly by racing standards. My mom gave me her salary for one year, which was enough to move to England, which was very great of her, but not enough to go beyond that. But she was a travel agent. Still is a travel agent. Knew someone at TWA who liked racing. So they gave me some airline tickets, which I would then barter and sell. And that's how I got started in the sponsorship business. So I would go to companies and go, give me 50 grand to go racing, and not only will I put your logo on my race car, you can have some hospitality. I'll give 50 grand in airline tickets to match it. And so it was kind of a. That's a good deal. So that's how I got started. Then I became obsessed with both my racing career and the need for sponsorship. So I just started calling everyone and just trying to understand how does it all work. And I still carry that with me to this day.

[Katie Drummond]

You were running like a mini enterprise. I mean, you were running your own business.

[Zach Brown]

I was running my own business. So I raced for 10 years. And then when I stopped racing, everyone said, hey, you're really good at the sponsorship stuff. Ended up building what was the world's largest motorsports agency. Looked after the corporate side of the sport. So the sponsors, because I felt no one was advising them, and they've got a lot of juice in the sport, they're the money. So I thought, hey, I can get you great deals here. I had the credibility of understanding the sport, being a racer, and built that business up, did it for 20 years, sold it, and then had the opportunity, a great opportunity, to either join Formula One itself or McLaren. Ultimately, tough decision, but very happy with my decision, which was, I'm a racer. So I felt I'd done sponsorship for so long that joining McLaren would give me both the commercial side of the business, which I absolutely love, but. But when the lights go out or in America, the green flag comes out, you go racing. And that was something that was very exciting for me. And so now I'm in my 10th season at McLaren.

[Katie Drummond]

You raced for 10 years so you would know what kind of person is drawn to the sport. Like, who wants to get behind a wheel of that car? Looks terrifying to me, personally. What kind of person is drawn to that as a career? What do you think drew you to it?

[Zach Brown]

I think certainly adrenaline sure plays a. Plays a role being competitive, loving the field for speed. You get nervous, and if you get scared too often, you shouldn't do it. But anyone who says they don't get Scared. You know, you have a big moment or you crash, or you're in wet weather or something like that. But I think same thing being a baseball player, which is what I want it to be. You know, if you have 100 mile an hour fastball coming at your head, I would imagine that's pretty scary. If you're a football player and Michael Strahan's about ready to hit you, that's gotta be pretty scary. So I think fear is a natural element of sport, but that actually creates adrenaline and excitement, which drives performance, you know, and then it requires motor racing. Not just physical skills, but mental, because the race cars are very sophisticated. So understanding the equipment is something that all these sports, there's playing the sport, but then there's understanding how the sport is played. And motor racing, you need to be pretty switched on to understand how to get the most out of the race car and the team.

[Katie Drummond]

And I want to ask you a lot more about the cars themselves in a few minutes. But I'm curious about your arrival at McLaren. What were the biggest challenges when you showed up, you walked in the door and you thought, oh, my God. And what came after that? I mean, if you did think that. But I think there's a, there's a pretty significant transformation.

[Zach Brown]

Yeah, I didn't do it first because there was a lot of arrogance in the team, given the unbelievable history. And we were new with Honda and Honda was really struggling. And so I came in with the belief that I think the team believed and led everyone to believe, which is, we're great. This is all on Honda. And that was not the case. You know, Honda definitely had their challenges, but when we replaced Honda and we put another engine in Renault, while we took a step forward, we went from being our worst year ever. When I joined 9th, we hopped up to an all great 6th and it was like, okay, Honda might be responsible from ninth to sixth, but who's responsible from sixth to first? That's on us. Sure. So that's when I realized, wow, we're not as good as we think we are. Today we had record low sponsorship, less than 50 million. Today we're up over close to 500 million.

[Katie Drummond]

Wow.

[Zach Brown]

We were ninth in the championship. A team that has been the second most successful team in the history of the sport. We had our worst year. Our employees were not happy. And as I say, other than that, everything was great. Now what was great was we have this great iconic brand that was not in a good place. But sitting here in New York, it's kind of like okay, if the Yankees have a bad season, there's still the Yankees. So you can revitalize that brand with success quite quickly. So I knew we had an unbelievable brand. And then we have 1400 people at McLaren, about 1000 of those in Formula One. And as you kind of walked around the halls in the shop, it was like, there's a lot of race wins and championships here. So the problem isn't the masses. The problem is the leadership or the lack of the leadership team. And that wasn't any one person's responsibility. It was the leadership team as a whole. So I set out focusing on the people. I changed the leadership team quickly, one at a time, get the right leadership in place to create the right energy and the right culture. Attack the commercial side of the business, because that's something I love and was very comfortable with. And I felt if we could, you know, you could sell the brand and set a new vision and get people to buy into that. First big partner to kind of buy into that was dell Technologies in 2018. And it was like, okay, once you get a Dell, then they're going to help attract the Googles and the MasterCard. You know, that kind of starts to.

[Katie Drummond]

Success begets success.

[Zach Brown]

Yeah. And so then with that, that created a new energy that brought in some revenue so we could upgrade our technology. We were behind in technology. We could hire the best drivers in the world, and all just started to build. And sitting here now, today, 10 seasons in, we've won the last couple championships. We've got the best driver lineup in Formula one. We have revenues, you know, just on the. On the partnership side, you know, knocking on 500 million. So we've. We've 10x that, a lot of excitement and energy, and most importantly, very engaged with our fans and a very inclusive team. We were kind of a dark, unfriendly team. I kind of called us Darth Vader, which people like. Darth Vader. Darth Vader can be cool, foreboding, but Luke Skywalker is the good guy.

[Katie Drummond]

Sure.

[Zach Brown]

And so we went to our papaya, which was our iconic color orange, and we did that because that's what the fans. So we started to really engage with our fans and be a team that fans loved or liked, which there was some data that came out recently, and we were the most loved and least disliked racing team, which is very important.

[Katie Drummond]

It's great to be the least disliked.

[Zach Brown]

Yeah. Because in sport, you know, it's, you know, it's quite a polarizing business. And a lot of credit that to our Two drivers, you know, world champion Lando Norris and Oscar Piastri, two of the nicest guys in the world when they don't have helmets on. And when they got the helmets on, their tough characters.

[Katie Drummond]

I wanted to ask you about the fans and the fandom and sort of that piece of it. So something I was wrapping my head around as I was learning about F1 and learning more about McLaren when I was getting ready for this interview is that you have. It's the McLaren team, but you have two drivers, and fans can get behind the team, but they get behind one driver or another. There's a bit of that sort of, like, rivalry piece. Can you explain how that works and sort of the significance of that for McLaren fans and the fandom?

[Zach Brown]

Yeah, I think there's a lot of different ways fans kind of take in sports and racing. So you have people that are fans of teams. I'm a McLaren fan, I'm a Ferrari fan, I'm a Mercedes fan. And when a driver moves, they kind of remain loyal to the team, and they pick a favorite driver or two, not necessarily an either or. And then you have fans that are fans of the drivers, and if the driver moves, they maybe move with the driver. Take Lewis Hamilton is an example. You know, the most famous Formula One.

[Katie Drummond]

I do know about Lewis Hamilton.

[Zach Brown]

Yeah. So you have people that, you know are Lewis fans in front of Mercedes, who was driving for. So when they went to Ferrari, they're now Lewis Ferrari fans. And, you know, I think when you have two drivers competing for the World Championship, they have a huge fan base. So it's interesting that where, you know, I'm cheering for McLaren, but I want Oscar to win or I want Lando to win. And then when they become each other's biggest rivals, then naturally, when you're a fan of one, it kind of makes you not a fan of the other because you want your guy to win. So it's an interesting dynamic where fans can at times get grumpy with the team, but we love both our drivers, so, you know, we try and get our fans to be papaya fans. And maybe if you have one driver as your favorite, maybe the other should be your second. But when they want to win, they then start to see them as the. The rival, even though we're inside the same team. Different than stick and ball sports. Right. If you're, you know, I'm a St. Louis Cardinals fan, but you. Again, we're in New York, you're a Yankees fan, but you're kind of cheering for everybody on The Yankees because it's a team win and why Aaron Judge might be your favorite player on the Yankees. You probably don't dislike anyone else on the Yankees because you want the Yankees to win. Where our sport, you've got a team aspect to it, but then you have an individual aspect to it. And that sometimes conflicts fans, where they're for your driver, but grumpy with the team if the other driver's winning. Cause they somehow see it's kind of your fault, right?

[Katie Drummond]

Yes, I am.

[Zach Brown]

It's a weird dynamic.

[Katie Drummond]

I'm wrapping my head around this.

[Zach Brown]

It's a different dynamic.

[Katie Drummond]

Do you think about these for the fans in the context of storylines? Like, are there narrative arcs that you're thinking about as a season progresses?

[Zach Brown]

Yeah, all we try and do is we are very principled on our racing values. We stay the course, I think, in sport. And it's a beautiful thing because it's such a popular thing.

[Katie Drummond]

Has there been anything in the time that you've been with McLaren that has surprised you about the fans?

[Zach Brown]

Well, there's good and bad. Let's start with the good. The passion people have. The notes I get from the strong majority of fans of the love they have for McLaren and our drivers. And I got a note, you know, and I read them all, try and read them all of kids that decorated their rooms. And we try and reach out for every fan as much as we can. Because I remember, you know, the 1981 Long Beach Grand Prix meeting, my driver. So those are the awesome stories. And that is the strong majority of it, is people's love for the sport. And when they convey that and you see the birthday cakes. We've seen people propose at McLaren, we've seen weddings. I get, you know, that is awesome when we're that much ingrained. So that's the beautiful side. The 2%, which sometimes are louder than the 98%, are, quite frankly, are shocking. You know, as far as the language, the allegations, the death threats. No. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've seen. Seen it all. And that's. That's pretty disappointing. You gotta just ignore it and kind of go, maybe there's just something wrong with some of these people.

[Katie Drummond]

Some of that 2%.

[Zach Brown]

Some of the 2%. And they can be pretty, pretty loud. But I think that's the world we live in.

[Katie Drummond]

Oh, sure it is. Same with journalism.

[Zach Brown]

I think we all see it around all variety of topics. And so the haters, if you'd like, are pretty loud. But I think you just gotta blow em off and realize that's not really our fan.

[Katie Drummond]

Yeah. Yeah. You know, as fervent and passionate as this fan base is, I know that you have aspirations still to. To grow it. And you've talked before about women and sort of the gender dynamics of the sport. Talk to me about how you plan to grow the audience for F1 racing, especially in the context of women. How do you get more women excited about the sport? To be clear, plenty of women in the Wired newsroom really wanted to be here today. So it's not like it's.

[Zach Brown]

It's amazing. It's already happening. Yeah. To kind of wind. Back when Liberty acquired the sport in 2016, 17, there was three things the sport needed to kind of go to the next level. It needed North America. And I think we're. You know, five years ago, I wasn't sitting in New York doing interviews about Formula One, so it's. It's tackled North America. I think Drive to Survive played a big role because I think we opened up the sport. We went from being exclusive to inclusive, showing people how the sport worked. It's got a big soap opera drama element to it, which everyone loves, and get to know the characters. I think fans want to engage and understand in Formula one for a long time was look but don't touch. And we don't want to show you what's behind the wizard of Oz robe or what have you. So we opened that up. Then that also brought in women, diversity and youth, and that was what the sport needed to go to the next level. We have a racing series with the only team that has two female racing drivers in what's called the F1 Academy. So racing drivers obviously get everyone excited, but then also lots of engineers. We have programs with our partners around stem, so we're trying to get women involved, you know, actually working at McLaren, and those numbers are dramatically increasing. And then same thing with the fandom side. And now when I'm stopped, often it's mostly from women or it's from guys who go, my wife, my daughter, they're a fan of Lando. So it's happening. It's probably has much more of a balance than people would think. You know, it's about 60% male audience, 40% women, and the audience is getting younger, which is great. 75% of our new fans are women and youth. So that's exactly what the sport needs to have a really strong future, you know, just being accessible to all fans. And I think these events are awesome and exciting. Yeah, they're glamorous, they're global. And Then something that we're putting a lot of effort in is only 1% of our fan base actually makes it to a race. So we're trying to make sure we pay as much attention to the 99% that don't make it to a race. So we did some live events in Trafalgar Square in London, we did Miami Live in Miami, as it says on the tin. We've done events in the Apollo Theater. So we want to be the most exciting and most engaged sports team in the world. We want everyone to feel part of McLaren. Probably doesn't hurt that we have two pretty cool racing drivers that are, you know, multi millionaires racing around the world. Very nice guys. So they, they, they definitely draw attention. Put all that together, we just have an awesome fan base. We want to keep doubling down on it.

[Katie Drummond]

We're going to take a quick break and we'll be right back.

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[Katie Drummond]

uncanny we are in uncharted territory.

[Zach Brown]

Staff writer Evan Osnos on the New Yorker Radio Hour.

[Katie Drummond]

I think all of us right now are trying to make sense of an avalanche of news every day. And there aren't very many places where you can go and understand how something looks in the grand scope of history and context. That's what I come to the New Yorker for.

[Zach Brown]

I'm David Remnick and each week my

[Katie Drummond]

colleagues and I try to make sense

[Zach Brown]

of what's happening in this chaotic world. And I hope you'll join us for the New Yorker Radio Hour.

[Katie Drummond]

I want to ask you about Formula One's deal with Apple. Actually Apple, my understanding is now has exclusive rights to broadcast Formula One races. How do you think about that kind of deal in the context of building up a new fan base in terms of access, Right, the need to subscribe to watch the races? Is there a limiting factor there or do you see more opportunity in that dynamic?

[Zach Brown]

Definitely, definitely opportunity. And that's proving out. I think there was concern by some, myself included, that anytime you go behind paywall, are you going to lose an audience? Reality is they've now gone public with their numbers. They're up over, I think, 30%. So I think that was the biggest concern. The production quality, the content is amazing. And I think reality is the way we're all growing up today is a technology world and pay to play is a thing, right? Netflix and Apple tv and I think if people want content they're prepared to, to kind of pay for, to go that extra step. And everything's on your phone now or on your tablet or on your laptop or your T. And so I think people are comfortable. You know, for me it would have been, it's an extra step. But people want live sport and now with technology partners like Apple, they're able to distribute the sport in different ways. And I think because we're such a technology driven sport, there's a lot of different ways to watch our sport. People sometimes just watch it via kind of data. And so I think it's a great opportunity. And I think the concern of are you going to lose audience when you're behind a paywall that's proved to not be the case.

[Katie Drummond]

You're talking about technology. Which brings me to a very interesting conversation I think we can have in a very wired conversation, which is actually around the cars themselves. I mean, this is an incredibly technical, technologically sophisticated sport. Talk to me about the teams who actually build the cars. Like how does one of these cars get made and what are the key considerations in that process?

[Zach Brown]

It's a big team effort. As I mentioned, we have a thousand people.

[Katie Drummond]

I mean, that is a shocking number

[Zach Brown]

of people for two race cars. Now.

[Katie Drummond]

Probably a thousand people for two cars.

[Zach Brown]

Thousand people, two race cars. Now let's take out probably 300 of those that aren't responsible directly, but they are responsible, but directly for building the race car. When I say directly, our comms team, our marketing team, our commercial team, our HR team, our finance team, which are those three, 300 plus people, they've got to create the opportunity to hand it over to the race team to design it. So they're the ones that are raising the money and engaging with the fan base and creating culture and spending the money wisely. So they're very much as important as anyone on the racing team. But once you get into the racing team, it's pretty much an aerodynamic game. So it's about putting as much aero and downforce. So you've got your aerodynamicists, you've got your design team, you've got your vehicle dynamics team. It's amazing watching a race car that has 80,000 parts that lives in a prototype world. So we don't just build it and go. That's what we're racing for the year, we build it. And by race one, by race two, it's changing. Race three, it's changed. So it's constantly evolving. If you take the car at the beginning of the year that qualified first and you didn't touch it, by the end of the year, it would be last. So that's the pace of development of the entire field. So we live in a prototype world. We're chasing perfection. But you never actually catch it because you can always. We're done with that. Let's put it on the car now. Let's keep working on it to make it better, lighter, faster, more aero, whatever the case may be. And so it's amazing watching it all come together. You know, it's close to 100 million just to develop and build these race cars. One car, two cars, you ultimately end up building up about four or five over the course of the year because the chassis will flex out or have accidents, things of, of that Nature and you need spares. We have 300 sensors on the car. We pull down one and a half terabytes of data over the course of a weekend. We run 50 million simulations over the course of a race week. So the technology is absolutely insane. Which is why we have so many technology partners is they are very much integrated into the team. So you look at the Dell, we're running their servers and their storage and their high performance computing. Cisco's responsible for our communications, Google and Gemini around our our AI activities. And so that's why I think so many technology partners. We just announced intel gravitate towards the sport as it's a place for them to showcase design and develop their technologies. And I think that's why it's such a fertile playground for these great companies.

[Katie Drummond]

Have there been any breakthroughs in car design or manufacturing or testing or anything in that space that have been particularly exciting for you in recent years?

[Zach Brown]

Yeah, I mean it dates back to the seat belt in the rearview mirror. Yeah, those are good ones. But that started in motor racing. Then you get into carbon fiber chassis. Safety is a big aspect in racing that gets transferred to the road car materials. Now you don't take something off Formula one car and put it on a road car because road car wants it to go 200,000 miles. We want it to go 200 miles and then be done with it and move on. But materials, carbon fiber chassis was something. We were the first Formula One team in the early 80s to have the first ever carbon fiber chassis. Now every road car we have carbon fiber chassis and that's a safety performance, lightweighting. So a lot of innovation there, paddle shifts, that's something that is now an everyday car. We're big into hybrid and electrification. We're now running sustainable fuels. So we are kind of 10 ahead of what you might start to see in road cars. Our materials have been involved in the medical industry around prosthetics because we know shock absorption and materials. So we actually have a piece of our business we work with in Australia, the coral reefs, about reproduction. So we have some knowledge and know how that we've used to do good around the world around sustainability. We've had a product on the Mars lander.

[Katie Drummond]

Wait, what's the product on the Mars lander?

[Zach Brown]

That was before my time.

[Katie Drummond]

Okay.

[Zach Brown]

So like I said, I'm not an expert in everything.

[Katie Drummond]

Not an expert in space.

[Zach Brown]

But that would have been materials. But I don't recall specifically which material. But that would have been around materials.

[Katie Drummond]

Wow. Okay. And so you said that at this moment you would describe these cars and the technology as sort of maybe 10 years ahead of what's on the road for the average consumer. Can you give us any insight into what you are looking into, investigating, considering right now in terms of technology that might be 20 or 30 years down the down the pike?

[Zach Brown]

Materials are always a thing. Sustainability is very much a thing. And so using materials that you can recycle things of that nature. We'd love to have a fully recyclable race car. That would be kind of our moonshot project, and I think that's possible. And then AI.

[Katie Drummond]

Yeah, tell me about the AI piece of it.

[Zach Brown]

Well, so we're using AI everywhere around strategy. So both on performance of the racing team. It's one of the big things that Gemini brings to the table. Design of the race car and then engagement with our fans and then operational efficiency and productivity. So it's kind of like it is in most businesses now, all across all areas of our business. And it's early days, which is exciting because I think we continue to discover and racing teams naturally want to know what's happening tomorrow. We don't live in yesterday, we live in tomorrowland. And so I think AI is going to continue to help us learn quicker. I think that will ultimately end up in new discoveries as well.

[Katie Drummond]

So you think that AI, I mean, in sort of analyzing all of that data you're pulling out of these cars, you're pulling out of every race, the materials involved in the car, how the car is designed, could actually help create the better McLaren vehicle of the future.

[Zach Brown]

100%. 100%.

[Katie Drummond]

That is fascinating. That is really fascinating.

[Zach Brown]

It's amazing how when you go in and you see a Formula one team and you see the technology and the data flying around and the server racks and the AI, it's pretty mind blowing. And when you take the engine cover off and you look at what propels these race cars, it's not like popping a hood in your. In your everyday road car. You look at it and it's like, what is going on here? It is definitely flying, flying to the moon stuff.

[Katie Drummond]

That is so wild. Now, I want to talk to you about money a little bit. You've talked about revenue here and there throughout the conversation, but my impression is that there is just a massive amount of money pouring into F1 right now. Can you talk a little bit about that? Break it down for us. Where is the money coming from? Is it primarily sponsorships? How big is this sport becoming, particularly in the United States?

[Zach Brown]

It's primarily sponsorship. You do get a good revenue stream from the league itself. Our numbers are public, even though we're a private company in England. You have to file with company house. Our revenues are around £700 million. So depending on the kind of current exchange rate was that I'm like billion ish. Billion ish. Not quite. And then bottom line, north of 100, that kind of puts us in the NFL category. When you look at what NFL teams generate from a revenue and a profit, our shareholders are all about winning and our people and brand. And then the revenue follows. The value creation of Formula One has grown immensely. But when you look at what an NFL team is working, there's 11 Formula One teams. It's a global business. It has NFL type revenues for the teams, not the league. The NFL league is in a different league. It is the best business sport in the world and hats off to them. I think we all look up to the NFL and go, we want to be like the NFL when we grow up. I would say probably three quarters of our revenue is sponsorship. Then you get some licensing and merchandise. And then you do get from Formula One itself a pretty healthy, healthy check that's based on. There's kind of three different categories. There's kind of an appearance fee that we all get the same for. You're in the sport and then it's performance based on how you finished last year is another piece of the pie that you share. And the better you do, the more you get. So the revenue streams are pretty simple.

[Katie Drummond]

Now let me ask you this. Let's say someone listening. I'm sure many listeners already know and love the sport. Maybe some, like me, are trying to figure out how to get into it. What would you tell a new or aspiring fan, Someone who's like, this sounds interesting, this sounds fun. I don't even know where to start. Where should they start?

[Zach Brown]

I think it's, you know, if you can go to a race. Because then I think it, like most sports, makes the television experience that much better. Because seeing a car go 200 miles an hour in real life looks a lot faster than seeing it on tv. So I think if someone can get to a race now that's, that's currently the 1%, can we get 99? The other 99%, that's probably not. So I think the more you could use almost a second screen experience because there's watching the race, but then there's watching the strategy of the race and the technology. So if you just turn on the TV and you're watching race cars go around you're only kind of getting half the experience. The more you can kind of understand the strategy, see how. How the race is playing out. And so it's a great second screen experience, I think our sport probably more. So you got the TV on and then you got your tablet open and you're watching telemetry and lap times and sectors, listening to radio. You can have in car cameras from your different drivers. So you can kind of.

[Katie Drummond]

Oh, that's fine.

[Zach Brown]

You can set up on your kitchen table, kind of a whole, whole scene. And I think once you get immersed in and it really draws you in because you start to follow the strategy. And here's what I think they're gonna do. What tires are they on? So there's a lot of strategy, as there is in all sports, but I think ours is quite complicated. So the more you get immersed in it, the more you understand it, the more intriguing it is.

[Katie Drummond]

And so you were a driver and now you run McLaren. Do you ever get FOMO? Do you ever wish you.

[Zach Brown]

Oh, all the time. All the time?

[Katie Drummond]

Yeah. You wish you were behind the wheel?

[Zach Brown]

Yeah, all the time.

[Katie Drummond]

Do you ever get behind the wheel?

[Zach Brown]

I do get behind the wheel.

[Katie Drummond]

Do they let you test the cars?

[Zach Brown]

I can't, no. Cause of regulations. I can't drive the new stuff, but I drive the old. Yeah. Especially like on the grid. And I think that's an area that I contribute a lot to the team is, is our driver relationship. So there are areas I can't contribute. Sitting down with our aerodynamicist, trying to suggest how we put more downforce on the car.

[Katie Drummond]

It's good to know what you don't know.

[Zach Brown]

I don't know that at all. I listen and I don't say a word. But then when it comes to drivers and maybe some strategy and things of that nature that I know the commercial side, I, I lean in on a lot. So, you know, my view is I work for the team, they don'. For me. So I go around trying to see how can I help everyone be better at their job. Some things I can help get my hands dirty on and really dive in. Other it's kind of tell me what you need and, you know, what support you need. And let me get that. That's one of the reasons, coming back to, you know, why I joined McLaren, is I love being in the race, and I still definitely am in the race. I'm just not driving the race car.

[Katie Drummond]

Yeah. I mean, perk of the job, occasionally driving one of the old cars. It sounds great.

[Zach Brown]

They are amazing. Amazing. Machines.

[Katie Drummond]

No judgment here. All right, another quick break here, and we'll be back with our favorite game.

[Podcast Sponsor Announcer]

The world gets more interesting when we stop and ask questions. That's what Shortwave, NPR's science podcast, is all about. Shortwave spends each episode answering a big question like why do we have nightmares? How does AI affect my energy bill? And how can trash be good for the environment in under 15 minutes? Shortwave follows a question wherever it leads and brings you along for the rest. It's science, but not the kind you remember from school. It's surprising, playful, and full of wonder. Science isn't just for PhDs of the world. It's for everyone, including those of us who didn't realize we love science. At Wired, we love a good rabbit hole. We recommend listening to their recent episode where did the Moon Come From? Earth didn't always have a moon. In the beginning of the solar system, when the planets were still forming, something happened that would change Earth's night sky forever. Ever co host Regina G. Barber takes you on that journey. Follow NPR's Shortwave podcast and exercise your right to wonder.

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[Katie Drummond]

The Internet can be strange, absurd, terrifying, even surprisingly human. Each week on Close all tabs from kqed, we cover how the digital world is reshaping, how we live and who we are. People just assume that the American Internet is this like, free and vast frontier here.

[Zach Brown]

And then when I started asking that question, it was impossible to unring that bell.

[Katie Drummond]

People were asking chatbots to tell them if God exists. Listen to close all tabs. Wherever you get your podcast, Zach, we like to play a little game that we invented, if you're up for it, of course. It's called Control, Alt, Delete. Okay, so I want to know what piece of technology you would love to control, what piece you would love to alt so alter or change, and what you would love to delete so vanquish from the earth. This can be F1 related, or it can be totally general about what you're experiencing in your life.

[Zach Brown]

Control. I would love to, you know we're now paddle shifts from the old days of kind of an H pattern. And then you had sequential gearboxes, which were somewhere in the middle. I'd like us to go back to sequential gearboxes. Gives the driver a little bit more control of the the car.

[Katie Drummond]

Okay, what are you altering?

[Zach Brown]

I would love to alter the battery technology. It's a big topic at the moment. I think batteries are relevant. You know, the whole world was going EV five years ago, and now it's put the OEMs in a pretty difficult situation. So I would like to go back to what we had, which is more internal combustion engine, hybrid and battery. Maybe dial down the battery a little bit now that we have sustainable fuels.

[Katie Drummond]

Okay. Very specific. What are you deleting?

[Zach Brown]

Deleting? What would I delete? I'd like to see some sound back in the engines. Because of the turbos and the hybrid and the battery, they're not quite as visceral as they once were. I don't want them to go back to what they were because they were almost anti. They were so loud you couldn't even have a conversation during a race. But kind of halfway in the middle would be good. So a little bit more sound because race cars going 200 miles an hour with sound just look faster than race cars.

[Katie Drummond]

Sounds very satisfying.

[Zach Brown]

Yes.

[Katie Drummond]

I don't think I've ever had someone delete silence.

[Zach Brown]

Yes.

[Katie Drummond]

But I like that Zach is deleting silence.

[Zach Brown]

I'm deleting silence.

[Katie Drummond]

I love it. Zach, thank you so much. This was so fun. Very informative.

[Zach Brown]

Thank you, Ramulan.

[Katie Drummond]

The Big Interview is a production of Wired and Kaleidoscope content. This episode was produced by our showrunner, Anne Marie Fertoli. Kate Osborne is our executive producer. Music and mixing by Pran Bandy. This episode was fact checked by Daniel Roman and I am of course, your host, Katie Drummond, Wired's global editorial director. Check back here on Thursday for the latest episode of Uncanny Valley, where Wired's writers and editors add you to their Slack channel. This week on the political Scene.

[Podcast Sponsor Announcer]

From the New Yorker, Trump's rupture in the world order.

[Katie Drummond]

Europe caught between two adversarial great powers. That's basically dialing back the clock to not only Pre World War II, but really it's a pre 20th century view of the world. And I would say it's a world of permanent insecurity that we're looking at. Join me, Evan Osnos and my colleagues Jane Mayer and Susan Glaser every Friday on the Political Scene, available wherever you get your podcasts.

[Zach Brown]

From prx.