Zohran Mamdani, the Internet’s Mayor (Re-air)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Zohran Mamdani, the Internet’s Mayor

Uncanny Valley | WIRED Big Interview with Katie Drummond
Original Air Date: August 11, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of Uncanny Valley’s "The Big Interview" spotlights Zohran Mamdani—New York State assemblyman, mayoral front-runner, and self-described "extremely online" political figure. WIRED’s Global Editorial Director, Katie Drummond, delves into Mamdani’s evolution from a digital-native activist to a viral campaign strategist. The conversation explores how social media and tech-savvy organizing transformed Mamdani’s political reach, reshaped modern campaign tactics, and the complex implications of digital culture on democracy and governance.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Rapid-Fire Warm-up: Digital Life and Tech Habits

Timestamps: 02:35 – 05:18

• Screen Time & Guilty Pleasures

  • Mamdani admits he avoids checking his "extremely elevated" screen time.

    "Elevated is a very kind word.” — Mamdani (02:57)

  • Guilty pleasure: TikTok, especially “AI videos of Jake Paul speaking Punjabi.” (03:02)

• Civic Tech Wishlists

  • Would build a straightforward app distilling when, where, and how to vote for New Yorkers.

    “Should be one simple place to go.” — Mamdani (03:20)

• Tech Tools & Work Routine

  • Calls his alarm clock "very useful" (04:07) and shares he started his day at 7:30 AM.

• Thoughts on Democracy & Tech

  • “By its current use [tech is making democracy] weaker, but I don’t think that’s an innate aspect of technology.” (04:33)

• Fascination with Civic-minded Tech Founders

  • Mammadi would choose to dine with Huge Ma (creator of TurboVax portal for vaccine appointments) as an example of civic tech that made a real-world impact.

    “I, an elected official, was recommending to my own constituents that they not use the government website... they used TripleVax instead.” (04:43)

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2. Origins: Growing Up Online and Early Digital Activism

Timestamps: 05:18 – 08:33

• Formative Online Experiences

  • Navigated childhood with weekday TV bans, exploiting early Hulu for loophole streaming (“thoroughly enjoying the loophole”).
  • Childhood immersion in computer games (FIFA, SimCity, Rollercoaster Tycoon) led to early community building online via game chat rooms.

• Digital vs IRL Activism

  • Admits his early activism's digital component was “quite underdeveloped," serving more as an informational channel than a powerful organizing vehicle.

    “Rarely if ever transformed the world that we were actually living in.” (07:13)

  • Facebook debates with friends rarely changed minds but laid groundwork for fusing internet and politics.

• Evolution of Purposeful Social Media

  • Early online experiences were more about reflection; Mamdani now seeks to "transform" reality using digital tools.

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3. Dealing with Digital Footprints and Authenticity in Politics

Timestamps: 08:33 – 09:52

• Unfiltered Digital History
  • Mamdani makes no efforts to “scrub” his digital past, embracing authenticity and public growth.

    “Too much of politics has become artificial… I think that actually being able to show who you’ve been over a period of time, the growth, the consistency… is also something that reflects what many people go through.” (09:12)

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4. Inside the Viral Mayoral Social Media Strategy

Timestamps: 11:50 – 17:47

• Social Media as Game-Changer

  • Mamdani credits his meteoric rise to a systematic investment in digital outreach, beginning even when he was polling at 1%.

    “It’s like all the candidates—me—tied with someone else. Shoutouts to someone else.” (12:56)

• Borrowing and Advancing the Model

  • Inspired by AOC’s campaign launch videos, he realized the power of social for both electoral and legislative advocacy.
  • Mamdani’s "Fix the MTA" campaign tested the waters: highly-produced videos, breaking out of the insular “political bubble.”

    “[We wanted to] not just better the other candidates in terms of our use of digital, but really owned that medium and tried to do something different...” (14:56)

• Risk and Creativity over Routine

  • Against consultant advice, committed resources to produce "two highly produced videos every month, supplemented by iPhone-shot content."

• Breakout Viral Moment: The Polar Bear Plunge

  • A polar bear plunge video (symbolizing “freezing rent”) exemplified low-cost, high-impact content.

    “It cost us far more in terms of invention—and a willingness, frankly, to put yourself out there in all different kinds of ways, many of which are embarrassing.” (17:47)

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5. Rival Campaigns: Humorous Reflections on Mayoral Social Media

Timestamps: 17:47 – 19:27

• Memorable Eric Adams video moments: "getting stuff done, but doesn’t seem to do anything right", smoothie videos, and a POV video set to Linkin Park’s "What I’ve Done".
• Cuomo’s attempts at social media described as “a reflection of—I just got beat by a guy who uses social media.”

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6. Consequences of Online Fame and Strategy Evolution

Timestamps: 19:27 – 25:14

• Adapting to Notoriety

  • Logistics have shifted—more shooting in the office due to increased public interruption, but sees the attention as positive and reflective of campaign goals.
  • Expanding, innovative video team to avoid stagnation:

    “There’s a real tendency when you’re successful with something to just continue to do that again and again and again... But the inventiveness... is both exciting and also necessary as part of our political project.” (20:06)

• On Overexposure

  • Mamdani delegates concerns about overexposure to his comms team, doesn’t dwell on it himself.

• Transition from Campaigning to Governing via Social Media

  • Plans to treat social media as a core tool of governance to communicate and involve New Yorkers in policy, not just for personal branding or galvanizing a base.

    “We have to treat these forms of media with the seriousness and the legitimacy that they deserve... you cannot divorce the political approach to social media from the political approach to young people.” (24:00)

• Building Citizen Engagement and Participation

  • Examples range from 85,000+ campaign volunteers recruited online to citywide scavenger hunts and community-designed “I Registered To Vote” stickers.

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7. Navigating Safety, Visibility, and Political Violence

Timestamps: 25:14 – 28:18

• Post-Charlie Kirk assassination:
  • Maintains city presence (train, bus, bike) despite rising threats, adding extra precaution for self and staff.

    “If you’re riding around only in a car with tinted windows, the only New Yorker you might see is a reflection of yourself.” (27:29)

  • Public transit experience grounds political empathy and priorities (e.g., “You will not feel the pain of the slowest buses... until you ride that bus.”).

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8. Tech Industry, Rightward Shift, and Building Bridges

Timestamps: 28:18 – 31:21

• Tech & Business Leaders’ Shifting Politics
  • Mamdani notes parallels between tech’s disruption ethos and his progressive politics. Sees opportunities to work together on efficiency, innovation, and public service; rejects the notion that talk of "fraud" and "waste" are exclusive to the right.

    “Any progressive politics worth its salt... has to be concerned with the quality of life for those same working people, with the efficiency of the services you’re delivering to them...” (29:43)

  • Open to dialogue and unity—even if some industry leaders remain skeptical or opposed.

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9. Tech Platforms, ICE, and Digital Rights

Timestamps: 31:21 – 33:37

• Criticizes Apple and Google for removing ICE-tracking apps under government pressure.
• Provides a poignant story about the real stakes of deportation in New York City and underscores his advocacy for using tech as a tool for justice and anti-authoritarian organizing.

  “There is a clear need... to both understand the authoritarianism that we are seeing and use every single tool we have to ensure that we’re standing up for everyone.” (33:28)

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10. On Optimism and The Future

Timestamps: 33:37 – 35:20

• Defines optimism as finding hope and possibility in small, tangible acts of everyday kindness and solidarity among New Yorkers.

  “Amidst all the talk of New Yorkers being people who have no time for others... we are a kind people... these are the examples I hold on to as ones that can actually deliver us to the world that we want.” (34:04)

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11. Closing: What Comes Next—His First Post as Mayor

Timestamps: 35:20 – 35:46

• Jokingly hints his first mayoral post could reference the Eric Adams “POV: You’re the Mayor” meme, capped with playful ambiguity:

  “To me, it could be, as we say, inshallah, like, you have no idea what I mean. Is it yes? Is it no? Is it maybe?” (35:35)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On authenticity:
  • “Too much of politics has become artificial… Actually being able to show who you’ve been over a period of time, the growth... is also something that reflects what many people go through.” (09:12)
• On digital strategy:
  • “We decided we’re going to make two highly produced videos every month, and we’re going to supplement that with our own videos that we take with an iPhone here and there.” (14:56)
• On the campaign’s viral breakthrough:
  • “Freezing your rent as the next barrier of New York City. Let’s plunge into the detail. Very, very cold.” (16:33)
• On continued engagement:
  • “If you show that, then people are willing to engage with you. If you just treat young people as you would anyone else, with the same concerns, the same stakes, the same consequences... you'll see that there is the possibility of reaching far more people.” (24:00)

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Timeline of Key Segments

| Timestamp | Topic / Question | Key Point / Takeaway | |-----------|------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:35 | Digital habits rapid-fire | Mamdani’s tech/online habits, guilty pleasures, and favorite civic tech ideas | | 05:18 | Growing up online | Childhood internet use, early organizing, and evolution of digital activism | | 08:33 | Digital footprints & authenticity | Embracing transparency about past digital activity | | 11:50 | Social strategy origins | How Mamdani’s team built their viral, creative, risky campaign approach | | 16:20 | Polar Bear Plunge viral video | Example of DIY, authentic, cost-effective viral content | | 17:47 | Opponents’ social tactics | Humor about Adams and Cuomo’s videos—“POV: you’re the Mayor” meme | | 19:27 | Handling fame, evolving video approach | Adapting logistics, expanding creative team, and avoiding monotony | | 22:11 | Social media’s future in City Hall | Using platforms to inform, engage, and govern | | 25:14 | Navigating visibility & safety | Remaining in the public, protecting staff, necessity of political leaders being among people| | 28:18 | Tech industry/politics | Bridging progressives and tech, reclaiming discourse around “efficiency” and “waste” | | 31:21 | Apple/Google ICE trackers | Mamdani’s critique of tech companies for removing activist apps under federal pressure | | 33:37 | Modern optimism | His pragmatic, daily-acts-of-kindness vision for hope in NYC | | 35:27 | His first post as Mayor | Jokes about memes and ambiguity: “POV: you’re the Mayor” |

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Tone & Language

• Conversational, self-aware, witty, and direct.
  • Mamdani combines earnest optimism, humility, and humor—including poking fun at himself and his competitors.
  • Drummond maintains curiosity, skepticism, and a touch of playful irreverence.

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For New Listeners

If you haven't listened to the episode, this conversation is a candid, behind-the-scenes exploration of how digital fluency and authenticity have become core assets in modern campaigning—and how their implications will reverberate as both candidates and citizens attempt to bridge online virality with tangible political transformation.

Transcript

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[Zoran Mamdani]

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[Zoran Mamdani]

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[Katie Drummond]

Welcome to Wired's Big Interview. I'm Katie Drummond. Zoran Mamdani is quite literally everywhere. The 34 year old New York State assemblyman went from political rookie to Internet darling and the presumptive winner of New York City's November mayoral race. He's already graced the covers of Time, New York, Vanity Fair, and the Nation, among other publications. He's sparred with newscasters on CNN and NBC. He's riffed with Stephen Colbert, and he's bantered like his life depended on it with the hosts of the View. Mamdani's ascent to political superstar wasn't fueled by those print pages or broadcast interviews. Instead, his meteoric rise is arguably the byproduct of a single element of his mayoral campaign. A really, really good social strategy. I wanted to ask him about it. So on a rainy Monday morning, Mamdani and I caught up for 45 minutes in a conference room at his Manhattan campaign office. This is that conversation. Mr. Mamdani, welcome to the Big Interview.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Thank you very much for having me.

[Katie Drummond]

Thank you for being here. So we always start these conversations with some rapid fire questions. It's Monday morning, we're going to warm up a little bit. Are you ready?

[Zoran Mamdani]

I'm ready.

[Katie Drummond]

You're ready? Okay. What is your screen time average in a given week? Don't lie to me. It's too early in the interview for that.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I'm going to be honest. I haven't looked at it but mostly out of fear.

[Katie Drummond]

Okay.

[Zoran Mamdani]

What it could be.

[Katie Drummond]

So it's extremely elevated.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Elevated is a very kind word.

[Katie Drummond]

What is your Internet guilty pleasure?

[Zoran Mamdani]

Probably say TikTok same. You know, it's been quite concerning Now a lot of my algorithm is AI videos of Jake Paul speaking Punjabi.

[Katie Drummond]

That sounds quite a guilty pleasure to me. If you could design one civic app for New Yorkers, what would it do?

[Zoran Mamdani]

One civic app for New Yorkers. Right now I'd say an app that distills how to vote, where to vote, all the information that you need on voting. Because there's still a lot of New Yorkers that don't know the general election is coming up. Should be one simple place to go.

[Katie Drummond]

You would think, wouldn't you? Yeah.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Feel that way about a lot of politics.

[Katie Drummond]

You met your wife on hinge. Congratulations.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Thank you very much.

[Katie Drummond]

Any tips?

[Zoran Mamdani]

Any tips? You know, continue to have hope.

[Katie Drummond]

Just to be clear, I am married.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Okay.

[Katie Drummond]

But for anyone else you don't

[Zoran Mamdani]

shiva happy marriage.

[Katie Drummond]

We're doing great. Thank you.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Great, great.

[Katie Drummond]

What is one tech tool that you actually find helpful in your day to day work? What do you use?

[Zoran Mamdani]

A tech tool. It's very old fashioned but my alarm is very useful, I'm sure right now like I could not function without that alarm.

[Katie Drummond]

What time are you up this morning?

[Zoran Mamdani]

What time was I up this morning? I was up at 7:30. Not, not too early this morning. This morning was a nice morning. Yeah. Every now and then you get one of those.

[Katie Drummond]

Yeah, yeah. Is technology making democracy stronger or weaker?

[Zoran Mamdani]

I think by its current use weaker. But I don't think that's an innate aspect of technology.

[Katie Drummond]

If you could have dinner with any tech founder, living or dead, who would it be?

[Zoran Mamdani]

Any tech founder, living or dead. H, you know, I would like to have dinner with Huge Ma who is actually a constituent of mine. He created something called turbovax which was a portal that took publicly accessible information about vaccine appointments and made it much easier for New Yorkers to actually sign up for them at the peak of COVID and it was so much so that I, an elected official was recommending to my own constituents that they not use the government website to find their appointments and find where they could actually get a test and they used TripleVax instead.

[Katie Drummond]

You know, kudos to you for not saying Steve Jobs, because that's what most people go for. Okay, let's jump right in. So before you were an extremely online mayoral candidate, before you were a state assembly member, a community organizer, a rapper, which we're going to talk a little bit about, you were a kid, and you were a kid who grew up with the Internet. Can you talk a little bit about some of your formative digital experiences? Were you an early adopter? Were you an always online guy when you were 10? Like, what was that like for you?

[Zoran Mamdani]

So my parents didn't let me watch TV on weekdays.

[Katie Drummond]

Okay.

[Zoran Mamdani]

And I have a distinct memory of the beginning of Hulu where you could watch TV on your computer. And thoroughly enjoying the loophole that that created for my young childhood. I think early adopter, I think would be giving myself a little bit too much credit. But I played quite a few computer games, especially FIFA, SimCity, rollercoaster, tycoon.

[David Remnick]

Yes.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Championship manager, which then became football manager. And that kind of introduced me to the world of also chat rooms around games, things like that. But one of my memories was also the birth of itunes and, and the free song of the week and having an ipod. Before that having a jog proof Sony Walkman. These were some of the memories that kind of informed the way I saw technology in the world.

[Katie Drummond]

And then fast forward to college you organized for Palestine. Of course, that's an important part of your history. And you continued to do organizing work after that. I'm curious about how you thought about and approached digital activism as opposed to IRL activism and interaction. Sort of is one approach better for achieving certain goals? Did you see them working in tandem? How did you think about the digital piece of your work? Even sort of dating back to your late teens and early 20s?

[Zoran Mamdani]

I think, to be honest with you, the digital aspect was quite underdeveloped at that time. It was a part of it, but it was more kind of perfunctory than it was adding a distinct utility to the way in which we organized. And even in high school, my sense of politics was Facebook wall debates going back and forth.

[Katie Drummond]

Of course, people are still having those,

[Zoran Mamdani]

wishing them the best.

[Katie Drummond]

Yeah, me too.

[Zoran Mamdani]

And I remember really thinking that each time I would research something and I would write it and I would think that I really got my friend and then he would feel the exact same way and we'd just go back and forth and never move each other even more than an inch. That to me was what a lot of that kind of early fusing of politics and Internet was. And I think, you know, even actually in, in college I stopped using Facebook for a few years, but only would kind of keep an account to keep the Bowdoin SJP Facebook page going. But it, it rarely if ever transformed the world that we were actually living in.

[Katie Drummond]

Sure.

[Zoran Mamdani]

It was more of just a way in which to share information. And I think that, I'm sure we'll talk about this more. But the most exciting part of this campaign has been as it pertains to social media, the use of it to not only reflect the world that we live in, but to also transform that same world. And I think that was something that I had not arrived at in early years.

[Katie Drummond]

Yeah, you grew up online, as we've said, and like all of us who grew up online, I grew up online. You have a digital footprint, you have a digital history, much of which has been picked over. It's been used to make fun of you, it's been used to attack you. I read a piece over the weekend, they quoted some expert saying anyone running for mayor should really scrub their digital profile. Did you?

[Zoran Mamdani]

Clearly not.

[Katie Drummond]

Clearly not.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Can you believe if I did

[David Remnick]

the

[Zoran Mamdani]

worst scrub of all time?

[Katie Drummond]

Do you fire whoever was responsible for that? Do you ever wish you had? Do you ever wish that less of you as a 21 year old was out there now that you're running for mayor of New York City?

[Zoran Mamdani]

You know, I haven't spent too much time on it frankly in too turning it over in my head again and again because I think also too much of politics has become artificial, has become the creation of a self that is actually divorced from the way in which you grew up through the world. And I think that actually being able to show who you've been over a period of time, the growth, the consistency, all of these things at the same time, I think is also something that reflects what many people go through in and outside of politics and yet within politics. It's almost as if we want to create a snapshot of who you are in this moment and tell people to extrapolate that that's who you know, that's

[Katie Drummond]

who you've always been.

[Zoran Mamdani]

You've always been.

[Katie Drummond]

Yeah.

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[Katie Drummond]

comprehensive, witty, speculative, critical, insightful, profound.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Wide ranging.

[Katie Drummond]

Hopefully doesn't take itself too, too seriously.

[David Remnick]

David I'm David Remnick, and each week on the New Yorker Radio Hour, my colleagues and I try to make sense of what's happening in this chaotic world. I hope you'll join us for the New Yorker Radio Hour. Wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Katie Drummond]

Thoughtful, exquisite, just, you know, real.

[Superhuman Go Advertiser]

Introducing Meta Glasses.

[Katie Drummond]

You have questions. They've got answers.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Hey, Mehta, what's the capital of Peru?

[David Remnick]

Lima.

[Katie Drummond]

How do you say where's the restroom in Spanish? Donde esta Alvano? Hey, Meta, Is a hot dog a sandwich? Technically, no.

[Superhuman Go Advertiser]

Spiritually, yes.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Hey, Meta, what should I do with my life?

[Katie Drummond]

That's one of life's biggest questions. What do you think? Ask anything with the new Meta glasses, Obviously, the campaign on social has been a meteoric success. I mean, it has been one of the foundational stories of this era, of this entire campaign. When you win, which it is widely anticipated that you will in a few weeks, there will be a lot of fingers pointing at what you did on social media to help explain why you are now the mayor of New York City. But take us back in time. Take us back to before this moment, before you were even polling at 1%. Right. The origin of that social media campaign, where did it come from? Talk us through the thought process how you sort of came up with that strategy. You and presumably a team. Tell us about that.

[Zoran Mamdani]

It's funny you mentioned the 1%, because we were recently looking at that poll and I was quite literally tied with someone else. Not even a name.

[Katie Drummond]

1% generous. Oh, it's literally someone else.

[Zoran Mamdani]

It's like all the candidates. Me.

[Katie Drummond]

Well, it's people who wrote in their

[Zoran Mamdani]

friends tied with someone else.

[Superhuman Go Advertiser]

Yeah, sure.

[Katie Drummond]

Literally anybody else. Anyone else.

[Zoran Mamdani]

And then, yeah, shout outs to someone else.

[Katie Drummond]

Good for them.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I think there are a few moments. I mean, one of Them for me is by the time I ran for State assembly and I think especially with Congressman Ocasio Cortez's run in 2018 and the way in which her launch video so captivated people and distilled her politics into something that could be shared with everyone. The idea of having a launch video for social media and not necessarily even launch, but because the one that I shared, I think came out just a few weeks before my election. Right, but having a video that would kind of distill your politics, distill your campaign, that was becoming more and more well established. And I was seeing at the State assembly level that this was kind of the approach we started to think about what it could look like to use videos in a non electoral capacity, to use them in a legislative advocacy capacity, to try and take that same kind of approach as if it was a campaign, but have it be about a specific set of issues. And one of those approaches was with the campaign we started called Fix the mta. And so we made this big launch video with this duo called Melted Solids who continue to work on the campaign today. And it's this launch video that looks to speak about the MTA specifically and distill the three key ways that we were going to transform the MTA and bringing that ethos of what if we took the same kind of rigor and desire to break out of the little political bubble and not just had it be about elections. And even in terms of scale, if I look back, it didn't reach that many people, but it was this kind of moment in which we thought there could be more than just the approach and the model that we've seen. And then since then, I would see also a number of other politicians who would continue to utilize these mediums in different and innovative ways.

[David Remnick]

Right.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Congressman Ocasio Cortez is one of the most clear examples. City council member Chiyo Se was someone who was also using short form media, Instagram, kind of built for TikTok and Instagram as a medium. And it was really taking issues that would previously only be of the concern of those preexistingly plugged in into the politics of the city and making it of a far larger interest and specifically with brokers fees. And as we were thinking about all of that, I had a meeting with Anthony, who's one member of the duo, with Deb of Melted Solids. We met at Pie Boat in Astoria, just by where I live. And I was talking to him about wanting this campaign to be one that didn't just better the other candidates in terms of our use of digital, but really owned that medium and tried to do something different in the manner in which we used it and investing in it at an early level with the level of investment that I think most consultants would tell us was not the right move to make. And yet we decided we're going to make two highly produced videos every month, and we're going to supplement that with our own videos that we take with an iPhone here and there.

[Katie Drummond]

So you've executed on a lot of very fun stunts on social media during this campaign. Do you have a favorite? Do you have one that was the most fun that you think was the most effective?

[Zoran Mamdani]

I think one of the first ones that really broke through was when I did the polar bear plunge.

[Katie Drummond]

It's very unpleasant to watch.

[David Remnick]

Yeah.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Freezing your rent as the next barrier of New York City. Let's plunge into the detail. Very, very cold. And I think specifically shooting the rest of that video after I'm out of the water.

[Katie Drummond]

Yeah.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Dripping cold.

[Katie Drummond]

Oh, yeah.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Trying to speak about the nine mayoral appointees on the rent guidelines board. That was quite fun. And I think it was this moment where it was quite literally me and Andrew Epstein, who ran our entire comms operation for the primary and now is running our entire digital operation for the general. And it's Andrew with his iPhone and it's me in a $30 suit from the thrift store on Steinway. And just those, just the two of us, could make a video that Deb from melted solids would then help to cut. And that then became one of the most watched things that we had put out. And it cost us such little money. It just cost us far more in terms of invention. And I think also a willingness, frankly, to put yourself out there in all different kinds of ways, many of which are embarrassing.

[Katie Drummond]

They are embarrassing. Yes. Good for you. Speaking of embarrassing, your opponents, namely, I'm thinking about Eric Adams before he dropped out. Andrew Cuomo. They have made valiant efforts to find the same success on social media that you have found. What's it been like to watch that? And any favorites from their selection of fine works.

[Zoran Mamdani]

What I like about Eric Adams approach to social media is it's distinct to Eric Adams. You wouldn't confuse his video from mine. It's not an imitation of my video. It's very much Eric Adams.

[Katie Drummond]

It sure is.

[Zoran Mamdani]

You know, and I mean, the one where he's getting stuff done, but he doesn't seem to do anything right.

[Commercial Narrator]

Incredible.

[Katie Drummond]

And he's making a smoothie at 9am

[Zoran Mamdani]

but it's 11am the clock behind is incredible. Yeah.

[Katie Drummond]

Fine art.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I could not come up with that or script that. My favorite one of his is the. The one with the Michael Bay Linkin Park.

[Katie Drummond]

Yes.

[Zoran Mamdani]

What I've done. And it's like POV or the mayor, but it's on him.

[Katie Drummond]

Yeah.

[Zoran Mamdani]

So it's either a misuse of POV or a bold new format. Exactly. So I did start listening to what I've done by Linkin Park a lot after watching that video, and I do credit the mayor for that. Brought me back to memories of Meteora and hybrid theory. Andrew Cuomo's use of social media, it feels a little more of a reflection of. I just got beat by a guy who uses social media. So let's. Let's try and get this show on the road.

[Katie Drummond]

There you go.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I do miss the half cut sleeves that he had in the relaunch video.

[Katie Drummond]

Bring those back, Andrew.

[Zoran Mamdani]

You still have time, please.

[Katie Drummond]

So one of the consequences of your approach on social media, I would argue, is actually its own success. So you are extremely famous online, which in the year 2025 means you are just famous. Right. Like, my family lives in Canada. They all know who you are.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Where do they live in Canada?

[Katie Drummond]

Western Canada. They all know that I'm interviewing you today. My dad is like, oh, yeah, the guy. So you are known to millions of people outside of New York City, outside of even this country, outside of the voters that you are courting. How have you had to adapt to that level of notoriety?

[Zoran Mamdani]

I think there are some logistical adaptations. You'll see. We make a lot more videos in this office now.

[Katie Drummond]

Sure.

[Zoran Mamdani]

And part of that is just because we don't have enough time to make them outside anymore because of what making them outside means now. And part of that is a beautiful thing where people are stopping you and saying hello. And that is one of our many hopes from the beginning of this campaign that we break out of this bubble. And then what I've also really been overjoyed by is the blossoming of the video team that we have. It initially started with two people, then it was three people, now four, now five, and. And the inventiveness that they bring to this, because there's a real tendency when you're successful with something to just continue to do that again and again and again. I have a very bad habit with food, where if I like one dish, I'll just eat it until I'm sick of it. And I think what's been so lovely is to work with a team whose hunger is undimmed. By the success of that initial format. And it would be very easy to just continue to make direct to cameras every single day. But the inventiveness of how do we continue, how do we be consistent with our message, but continue to reinvent the medium and the way in which we're using this, and that's something that I think is both exciting and also necessary as part of our political project. We cannot rest on our laurels.

[Katie Drummond]

To be clear, you're literally everywhere. So you've been on the COVID of Time magazine, New York magazine, among others. You've done the Late show, the View, cnn, msnbc. I'm here from Wired. We are the third Conde Nast publication to interview you. I have to imagine the editor in chief of Glamour is somewhere outside. She's going to be coming in after. She's going to interview you. She'll be the fourth. Do you worry about overexposure?

[Zoran Mamdani]

I don't really think about it, and I defer to my comms team questions of exposure or overexposure.

[Katie Drummond]

How does your use of social media change, assuming that you take office? So what does it look like to go from campaigning on social media to governing, and to thinking about these platforms as tools of governance rather than tools to galvanize an electorate?

[Zoran Mamdani]

I'm going to make the Eric Adams videos.

[Katie Drummond]

Well, obviously, I mean, you're clearly in.

[Zoran Mamdani]

This is over. It's pov. You're the mayor of New York City. I'm getting stuff done. I'm going to get the clock. The Gracie Mansion.

[Katie Drummond]

And it just always says 11am it's

[Zoran Mamdani]

always 11am he has left us a model. I think we'll kind of wrestle with it. But, you know, I think social media is often discussed as a way in which you can escape the world. And what's been exciting is to be a part of a team that's looking to use it as a way in which to tell the stories of that world and then to transform it. And the use of the medium has allowed us to build a campaign that now has more than 85,000 volunteers, so many of whom first engaged with the campaign through a video that they saw or a tweet or a photo. And even, you know, we recently put out a request for submissions for an I Registered to vote sticker. And we had hundreds of artists send in their submissions. And then we had thousands of people vote on them. And the other day, the winning artist came into the office and we just said hello. And it was so lovely to meet this man and get a sense of who he was, the design that he made. And none of this would have been possible without social media. I mean, our scavenger hunt, you know, it brought about 5,000 people or so from across New York City on a premise that we just shared online. And now here they were in person. And the other day I was at a paper shredding event that we had in the Bronx and a woman came over to me and she was confiding me, confiding in me about an issue that her parents were facing. And then at the end of her telling me her story, she mentioned that she first met me at the scavenger hunt. And this is the ways in which social media can actually transform the world around us. That's why I don't think that there's an innate positive or negative. It depends on how you use these tools. And so in governing, it has to continue to be a tool that speaks to as many New Yorkers as possible. Because today, so many more New Yorkers are getting their news or their sense of self or their sense of their city from the social media that they use. And to ignore that is to ignore reality. And so we have to be not only present there, but we have to be thinking about how do we treat these forms of media with the seriousness and the legitimacy that they deserve? Because I think that's. I don't think you can divorce the political approach to social media from the political approach to young people. There's so often a condescension about both the medium and the people themselves that it doesn't require that kind of time and study and approach, when in fact, it requires just as much, if not more. And if you show that, then people are willing to engage with you. If you just treat young people as you would anyone else, with the same concerns, the same stakes, the same consequences. And if you prep for that Instagram video in the way that you would for a print media interview, you'll see that there is the possibility of reaching far more people.

[Katie Drummond]

Yeah, sure. So you talked a little bit about shooting more videos in the office as opposed to out on the sidewalk, for good reason. You are extremely visible. You are a person of color. You are a self described democratic socialist. You're Muslim. You hold values and positions, whether on Gaza or the LGBTQIA community, that are anathema to large segments of this country. I don't need to tell you that political violence has risen in this country markedly in recent years. You've been yelled at on the street. You've been on the receiving end of death Threats. So has your staff. I'm curious, particularly following the assassination of Charlie Kirk, have you thought differently about your safety and your exposure? How do you think about the risk of violence? And how does that change your campaign? How does it change, ultimately, what that means for you as mayor?

[Zoran Mamdani]

I. I haven't let it change the way in which I move through the city that I love. And I have to also take every precaution, not only for myself, but frankly, for my staff, the team that are around me, because these threats that are being made, they are not just threats on myself, as you've said, they're threats on my team. And the fact is that I'm never alone now. So if there is a threat to me, it's also those who are in my immediate proximity. There are things that I used to do that were instinctual. If I just missed the train, I would hop on the city bike and bike as fast as I could to the meeting. Now I have a detail with me. Now. I have a team around me. And now it also just means a little bit more of a negotiation and intentional planning around the use of whatever means by which I'm getting around the city because of safety concerns and because of the new way in which people relate to this campaign and know of this campaign. But that just means you have to take that extra time. It doesn't mean that you stop taking the train, you stop biking, you stop taking the bus. And I think the way that you move around the city, it influences the way in which you see the city. And, you know, too often, if you're riding around only in a car with tinted windows, the only New Yorker you might see is a reflection of yourself. And that is part of what leads our politics to politicians who do not engage with the public in the manner that they should. And my not only hope and dream of my commitment, rather, is to live in the city as New Yorkers live in it. To take the train, to take the bus, to ride a bike. Because you will not feel the pain of the slowest buses in the United States until you ride that bus. You know, me sitting on the M57 last week going 4.9 miles an hour to a press conference is a great reminder to myself and everyone around me as to why we're fighting to make buses fast and free. And I think these are the kinds of reminders you need so that you don't get separated from the people that you're actually looking to serve.

[Katie Drummond]

So a big area of focus for Wired this year and for plenty of journalists has been documenting the relationship between leaders in the tech industry and President Trump. Some of those same leaders are people who are not thrilled about the prospect of you as mayor. Some who live here and some who don't. I think because of what you represent on a national level that they point at that and they don't like that. Why do you think technology leaders, and I use that a little bit as a proxy for sort of business leaders writ large. But obviously the tech industry is the dominant industry in this country and on this planet. Why have they moved so far to the right and how do you bring them back?

[Zoran Mamdani]

You know, I had a number of meetings over the summer and continue to with business leaders. And there was one week where I had a meeting with hundreds of top CEOs, and the next day I had a meeting with those specifically within the tech sector. And one thing that I found fascinating in that meeting with the tech sector is that there are a lot of parallels in the ethos that drives that sector and the kind of politics that we espouse. An ethos where you are hungry, you are unwilling to accept a status quo, and you are interested in both innovating and frankly, disrupting the style of whether it's the politics or the business approach that you see in front of you. And I think that that, to me, has provided a real building block for a number of the relationships we've been building over these last few months with a number of leaders within the tech industry. Because we are looking to bring excellence into public service and to build upon the excellence that exists and also to deliver that which has been denied. And part of that means looking at the current state of city government and reckoning with that which is fake. And I think it's one of my own reflections that it is sad, to say the least, that we have allowed the language of efficiency and fraud and waste to become bywords of a right politics or Elon Musk's doge. When in fact, any progressive politics worth its salt that's focused on working people has to be concerned with the quality of life for those same working people, with the efficiency of the services you're delivering to them, with the fact that there cannot be any tolerance for fraud or waste in the pursuit of delivering those services. And I think that opens up the possibility of working together on a number of these things. And I've been honestly surprised in the openness that many have had. Now, there will be some who oppose this campaign, absolutely, sure. But I will always leave the door open to anyone and everyone, to both explain the positions that I have, and also to make clear that my vision of success for this city is a success where everyone stays. And that includes business leaders, that includes the workers who are working at those businesses, and that there's room for others to join us.

[Katie Drummond]

So you've been asked plenty about ice. You've been asked a lot about the National Guard coming into New York City. I'm not going to dig into that with you, but I am curious. In the last few weeks, Apple and Google have been on the receiving end of a lot of coverage because they have taken down several ICE tracking apps. So these are apps in their stores that allow individuals to notify their communities when ICE is spotted in a given neighborhood. The Trump administration, of course, has been very vocal in their disapproval of this kind of product. What do you make of that decision by these tech companies?

[Zoran Mamdani]

I think it's the wrong decision. And I think what we're seeing across this country is the terrorizing of people. And it's not simply something that is happening in cities far off from the one that we're sitting in. You know, I spoke to a pastor in East Flatbush who told me about a congregant approaching him after services and saying that she'd been served a deportation order. She had no one to go with her to 26 Federal Plaza. Would he go? He said yes. He went with her for the hearing with a judge. The judge asked her, in this hearing, are you wearing the clothes that you are ready to leave in? Have you told your family you will be deported today? She starts to break down crying. And over the course of the hearing, the judge decides to, in fact, provide her with TPS protections. But the ICE agents outside do not care. And so the pastor has to send some of the court watch activists outside to distract those agents, send another person who's there to run to grab the elevator, and then takes this woman under his arm and runs her into the elevator, smuggling her out of a federal building for her own safety. That's what ICE is in the city and across this country. You've seen these videos of the ways in which people are being treated, all in the name of law enforcement. It is a betrayal of those very words. And there is a clear need for everyone across this country to both understand the authoritarianism that we are seeing and use every single tool we have to ensure that we're standing up for everyone.

[Katie Drummond]

So Wired is ostensibly, ostensibly optimistic about the future. Oh, that's great. Your campaign has been very optimistic. I would argue, as Wired's editor in Chief. That realistically, optimism in this moment maybe looks a little bit different than it did a few years ago. Optimism to me right now is maybe the National Guard doesn't invade New York City. Right, That's. That's an optimistic view. What does optimism look like to you right now?

[Zoran Mamdani]

That's a great question.

[Katie Drummond]

Thank you.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I think it means not losing sight of the examples of a better world that we see each and every day, that there is an immense amount of work to do to build the world that we deserve. But we'd be doing it a disservice if we didn't see the ingredients of it around us already. And even amidst these horrific acts of cruelty, you will see New Yorkers, you will see Americans show that which we wish were reflected on a far larger scale, show that which we wish were embedded within the structures of politics of this country. And those are the opportunities for us to build something new. And amidst all of the talk of New Yorkers being people who have no time for others and that we are rude people, I also find that we are a kind people. We are people in a rush. We have a place to go. But in the same subway station that you'll find in violation of the ADA compliance, you will see a New Yorker who is trying to help a young mother carry her stroller down the stairs. You will see a New Yorker looking to help others in those moments where structures have failed them, but individuals are looking to try and help them. And I think those are the examples I hold on to as. As ones that can actually deliver us to the world that we want.

[Katie Drummond]

Fast forward to November. You've won the mayoral election. What's your first post?

[Zoran Mamdani]

I'm very tempted to say that Eric Adams is what I've done. POV or the mayor.

[Katie Drummond]

You can leave us with that. Parting words. You will have to make good on this commitment you're making.

[Zoran Mamdani]

To me, it could be, as we say, inshallah, like, you have no idea what I mean. Is it yes? Is it no? Is it maybe?

[Katie Drummond]

We may find out.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Thank you. Linkin Park.

[Katie Drummond]

Thank you. Zoran Mamdani. Thanks for joining us. This was great. Thank you.

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[Katie Drummond]

comprehensive, witty, speculative, critical, insightful, Profound.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Wide ranging.

[Katie Drummond]

Hopefully doesn't take itself too too seriously.

[David Remnick]

I'm David Remnick and each week on the New Yorker Radio Hour, my colleagues and I try to make sense of what's happening in this chaotic world. I hope you'll join us for the New Yorker Radio Hour wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Katie Drummond]

Thoughtful, exquisite. Just, you know, real,

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[Katie Drummond]

This show is produced by Jessica Alpert with help from Adrianna Tapia and Sam Egan. Sound design, mix and original music by Pran Bandi. Kate Osborne is our Executive producer. Conde Nast Head of Global Audio is Chris Bannon and I am of course, your host, Katie Drummond, Wired's Global Editorial Director. Comprehensive, witty, speculative, critical, insightful, profound.

[David Remnick]

Wide ranging.

[Katie Drummond]

Hopefully doesn't take itself too, too seriously.

[David Remnick]

I'm David Remnick and each week on the New Yorker Radio Hour, my colleagues and I try to make sense of what's happening in this chaotic world. I hope you'll join us for the New Yorker Radio Hour wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Katie Drummond]

Thoughtful, exquisite. Just, you know, real.

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