Uncapped #25 | Lulu Cheng Meservey
Podcast: Uncapped with Jack Altman
Host: Alt Capital
Guest: Lulu Cheng Meservey
Date: September 24, 2025
Episode Overview
Jack Altman interviews Lulu Cheng Meservey, widely regarded as a “startup whisperer” for communications strategy. The conversation explores why comms has become a critical function in tech, how founders can craft compelling narratives, the psychology behind public perception, and the evolving media landscape. They delve into classic comms frameworks, the nuanced art of storytelling, archetypes of magnetic leaders, and how to align authenticity with strategic relevance. Meservey shares actionable insights for founders and comms pros, illustrating points with vivid historical analogies (including Napoleon) and candid perspectives on company aura and influence.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
The Rise of Comms and Company Aura
- Why Comms Is Having a Moment
Lulu highlights that companies led by founders with strong “aura” attract top talent and resources. The appeal of these leaders, she argues, comes from their communication prowess and the ability to shape reputation deliberately.- “Aura is code for how good of a communicator you are. You can't be bumbling your way through a sentence… and still have aura.” (A, 01:57)
- Companies now actively curate their image, using tools from influencer partnerships to cinematic videos, yet the “grand strategy” of reputation is rooted in clear ambition and intentional messaging.
What Matters Most in Comms: Clarity or Charisma?
- Both the “what” (message content) and the “how” (delivery and style) are more critical than the “where” (distribution platform).
- “If people just like you in their gut, they will figure out ways to try to help you be successful, and they will retcon to themselves the thing that they heard and how compelling it was.” (A, 04:13)
- Honest conviction and confidence are magnetic.
- “If you just have complete confidence that this thing you’re doing is right and you're going to win ... people will feel that emanating from you, and it's very hard to resist.” (A, 05:20)
The Structure of Great Stories
- Every effective narrative must have a problem and a resolution—a universally compelling arc.
- “Every story has that arc. A narrative arc is literally an arc. It goes one direction and then it comes back the other direction.” (A, 06:58-08:47)
- Founders must help people see not just where a company is on the trajectory, but indicate that its “best days” are ahead, cultivating the sense of being “underrated.”
Underrated vs. Overrated: Managing Perceptions
- The goal is to appear “loudly underrated,” so people perceive unrecognized upside.
- “Underrated is a compliment. Overrated is an insult.” (A, 11:32-14:32)
- Example: Opendoor’s stock jump was less about fundamentals, more about market trust in new leadership’s potential. (A, 15:00)
Flow vs. Stock in Narrative
- “Flow” is the trajectory (where you’re going); “stock” is the message at a moment in time.
- Crafting a message involves overlap between:
- What’s true
- What’s relevant/interesting
- What’s strategically useful
(A, 17:42-19:59)
- Not all press is good press; relevance divorced from truth or usefulness can handicap future plans.
The Difficulty of Narrative Pivoting
- It’s possible but hard to substantially shift a public narrative, especially when trust and ethos are at stake.
- “Anything is doable, but it is hard, especially if it accrues to personality and trust. People can believe the business will change, but it’s harder to pivot who people think you are.” (A, 22:23)
Authenticity and Emphasis
- Comms strategy is not about inventing a fictional persona for a founder but emphasizing certain authentic traits that are relevant to the business.
- “You gotta lean into the thing that you are. If someone is more remote ... to try to position them as warm and fuzzy ... it’s just hard. It will come across uncanny valley.” (A, 23:50)
- Public perception is always a compressed, refracted version of reality—the “homunculus model.”
- “There’s the authentic Platonic ideal of Jack ... and then there’s the world... a refracted, mini version of you.” (A, 25:16)
Consistency and Amplification
- To impact public perception, repeat key messages relentlessly—what feels like overkill internally is barely a blip externally.
- “Inside, but outside, it’s like, no one’s heard it. Like, zero people know about Lattice, so we got to keep saying it.” (B, 27:18)
The Power and Subtlety of Words
- Word choice shapes emotional responses and strategic framing.
“[Each] word that you choose should be load bearing ... if there are two words that mean the same thing, the way they sound influences how we feel about them.” (A, 28:52-30:34) - Metaphors influence how audiences think about issues: “Crime as a rampaging beast” evokes urgency and crackdown, while “crime as a disease” evokes care and remedy. (A, 30:34)
Human Psychology: Risk, Loss Aversion, and Narrative Framing
- People are risk-averse—if the status quo is positioned as unsafe, switching becomes easier.
- “Sales pitch Number One is: what you’ve got is mid; we’ve got something better. But you’re going against human psychology ... You actually want the image of them on a rickety canoe and you are on solid land.” (A, 31:37-32:12)
Impact on Recruiting and Company Morale: The Napoleon Case Study
- Legendary leaders inspire by branding the mission as grand and by embedding themselves with the team.
- “He gave his men a cause bigger than what it seemed like ... and then giving them this kind of branding ... you are part of something to be proud of.” (A, 36:28-39:51)
- Modern parallel: Highly involved founders (e.g., Brian Chesky, Joe Jebbia, or Scott Wu) set culture and make recruiting elite talent easier. (A, 40:21-41:38)
Working Across Companies & The General Theory of Comms
- After deep experience inside specific companies, Lulu’s broader work is aimed at developing and spreading a “general theory of comms” to uplift the entire industry.
- “I actually want to change how comms is done across the industry ... If each company gets better ... all of tech grows faster. And that’s better for America and the world.” (A, 44:22)
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
On Human Communication and AI:
"Comms is the final bastion of human ability ... the ability to persuade and win over and make other people fall in love for other humans will still be uniquely human."
— Lulu (A), [00:00], reiterated at [46:04]
On Narrative Arcs:
"You get to have some agency in where people think you are on the arc. And if people think that you have crested ... then they assume you must be coming back down."
— Lulu (A), [08:47]
On Being 'Underrated':
"When you are the founder ... you want people to think that your true value is even higher than the market is placing on you right now."
— Lulu (A), [13:44]
On Napoleon’s Comms Mastery:
"It wasn't just take this bridge ... it was a grander mission ... 40,000 years of history are looking down on you."
— Lulu (A), [36:29]
On Form Factor Agnosticism:
"I do not recommend that people anchor to a specific form factor ... you need to be ready to outrun your own ideas."
— Lulu (A), [46:04]
Timestamps for Key Segments
| Topic | Timestamps (MM:SS) | |------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------| | Why Comms is Now Valued | 00:49–03:43 | | Clarity vs. Charisma in Comms | 03:43–06:30 | | Building Narrative Arcs in Startups | 06:30–09:58 | | Underrated vs. Overrated—and Market Perceptions | 10:07–15:44 | | Flow/Stock in Messaging | 17:42–20:29 | | Is All Press Good Press? | 20:29–22:23 | | Pivoting Narratives & Authentic Positioning | 22:23–25:10 | | The Levels of Public Perception | 25:10–28:10 | | The Power of Repetition and Word Choice | 27:14–32:02 | | Human Risk Aversion & Sales Framing | 31:05–34:41 | | Napoleon & Recruiting Aura | 35:43–39:51 | | Why Founders Must Be 'One of the People' | 39:51–44:12 | | Building a General Theory of Comms | 43:16–45:48 | | Looking Ahead & Importance of Narrative 'Alpha' | 45:48–48:18 | | Evolving Relationship Between Tech & Media | 48:18–50:14 |
Final Takeaways
- Comms as Human Superpower: Persuasion, confidence, and authenticity will remain uniquely human and central to business success.
- Emphasize the Right Narrative: Founders must not only be authentic but also consciously shape which aspects of themselves and the company are highlighted for strategic impact.
- Repetition & Precision Matter: Relentless repetition and meticulous word choice create the sticky stories that drive public and employee engagement.
- Aura and Recruiting: Company aura, driven by narrative and leadership style, directly influences the ability to attract great talent.
- Evolve with the Medium: Don’t get attached to a single channel or tactic. The media landscape is always shifting; experiment and iterate.
- Everyone is a Reputation Critic: Audiences instinctively adjust perceptions to what they believe is “deserved.” Play to being “underrated” to unlock advocates.
- Comms as an Ever-learning Practice: Building a theory of comms is iterative, and industry-wide improvement uplifts everyone.
[End of Summary]