A (3:52)

Amazing. Now, for those who don't know, I mean, you manage a whole number of the world's biggest beer brands, don't you? If you were to go down the top 10, there's quite a few of them that under your wings, aren't they?

B (4:02)

Oh, yes. Yeah. This is why I said it's a big privilege and also a big responsibility. We, we own 8 out of the top 10 most valuable beer brands in the world. And by the way, Corona just became the number one in 2024. Budweiser number two. But eight out of 10. Also, we have $20 billion brands in our portfolio in a total of 500 brands. So it's a, it's a very big and powerful portfolio.

A (4:27)

It's a big privilege lead to an obvious question. How do you manage that amount of brands? So what, you know, what strategy do you apply to decide where you're going to put your investment?

B (4:35)

This is a great question because we've been learning a lot in terms of how consumers interact with brands and how different industries behave. So simply put, what we See is that all over the world you choose at any given market there's no more than three at max. Five brands commanding real growth in that given market. So this is why it's very clear for us that we need to learn to play with focus. When you understand the consumer basket, the amount of brands that they consider and they purchase on a monthly basis, it circulates around the Same number from 3 to 5 max. So this is why we've put together a program that we're calling the Mega Brands program. So it's a way to be much sharper on the portfolio strategy we apply on each one of our markets. Because there's no point on having just a global portfolio strategy. Right. Markets are big and they're different. We need to respond, we need to have a, we have a global strategy but that respects local nuances. So we have this Mega Brands approach. So we select the brands that have both scale and growth to be the leading horses for the next couple of years. And this is the brand, these are the brands that get disproportionate level of, levels of investment and execution. It's much easier said than done but it's, it's been a game changing approach for us in the way we organize our commercial programs because if we have focus, we have investments, we have focus execution so we can have everybody connected and concentrated in terms of brand plans that become much more commercially integrated. Integrated because we do fewer things better and, and this is in practical terms a game changing thing for the way we build our brands.

A (6:25)

Now I noticed you won. I think I'm right in saying Fes market of the year.

B (6:30)

Yes. I, I would attribute that to what we're talking about here, the Mega Brands and the Mega platforms program that we've been implementing.

A (6:38)

Because I was wondering if that could. Yeah. If that's part of why, you know.

B (6:41)

Because it's all about in the end of the. Yes. In the end of the day, it's all about effectiveness.

A (6:45)

Yeah.

B (6:46)

Right. So yes, we're very happy to be the number one company. ABI currently sits in the number one position of the FE rankings for most effective marketers in the world for the three last consecutive years. And I really believe that a lot of what we're talking about is what's behind that.

A (7:05)

So what other behaviors or actions lead, you know, deliver that kind of effectiveness? Because that's quite an impressive track record, isn't it? Three years in a row.

B (7:12)

No, it is. And we have a very clear philosophy as owners. We need to be very ambitious because we're leaders, but we need to be very humble every single day, to learn every single day. Because given the pace of change of things in the world, if you stop learning, you're happy today, you're miserable tomorrow. So within that aspect, like we, we observe those, we compare ourselves to peers every year. Exactly. To understand the gaps and opportunities that we have. But anyways, going back to your key question connected to the mega brands approach, once we have focus and clarity on our portfolio strategy, we also plugged in what we call the mega platforms. Because once you have fewer brands with a greater level of investments and commercial integration, we can afford to have bigger programs and more commercially integrated programs to activate those brands and to connect them with key occasions and with more consumers. So this is why we've been engaging with FIFA clubs, World cup, FIFA, World cup, the Olympic Games. For the first time ever, we were a global sponsor of the Olympic Games. Roland Garros, Wimbledon, musical events like Lollapalooza, like Tomorrowland, and you name it. But these are big moments that are always naturally beer big occasions. We're not talking about sponsorships, we're talking about events that are already connected to big beer occasions. You just mentioned Super Bowl. It's a big mega platform. Right. But people are watching the games, people are watching the ads with the beer in their hands. So this is when beer is naturally part of those moments. These are moments that people love. And this is when people get together to celebrate, to have a good time. And this is where beer belongs, by the way. This is why I love beer as a category. It's a privilege to work with a product that participates in people's lives in those amazing moments. So this is why we've been investing behind those big moments. So people connect with our brands in a natural way, in the right occasions. And because they want to be there, because they love those moments, we don't need to interrupt them, we don't need to fight for their attention. So when we put mega brands and mega platforms together as a combo, this is what I believe is making a big difference in the way we manage the commercial plans here, in the way we build our brands. And this is why I believe we are making strong efforts and we're improving the effectiveness of what we do.

A (9:40)

Yeah. Now, sporting occasions, you know, football and F1, for example, I'd imagine. But Olympics is quite interesting, isn't it? I wouldn't expect necessary expect that. And that was Corona with your zero percent, wasn't it? That, yes. Is that a new strategy then, to extend the brand into a new kind of sporting arena.

B (9:56)

No, thanks for the question as well because I get excited when we talk about that. Exactly. Because it was one of those moments, like even like quick parenthesis. Like our purpose as an organization is the statement is we dream big to create a future with more cheers. It's really what we have inside our veins. We really live those principles every day. So when we spoke about Olympics, we were like, imagine if we could be connected to the Olympics. Why? Because we are seeing the trends with no knock. We're seeing the trends with our consumers and we have great technology to do really a superior level of non alk propositions. So he said, okay, we're about to expand Corona Cero. Corona is our leading horse globally as a brand. Number one most valuable beer brand in the world. We have a great liquid for Corona Ceru, which is also unique not only because of the quality and the technology, but because Corona is better served with a lime. So when you have a Corona CER with a lime, you're really having the perfect original Corona experience. And then the point was nonaak gives consumers freedom of choice. They can drink beer whenever they want because it's nonaak. And then the point was Olympics seem to be a great platform for nonaoc because there's so many games going on throughout the entire day. Because depending. So depending on where you are in the world, you have games at 9am, at noon, at 3pm, at 10pm so it's a perfect launchpad for a global expansion of a non alcoholic proposition. So we were like, this could be awesome. Dreaming big. But then we were in a room and it was like, okay, but it has never happened before. Beer was never there before, but it doesn't hurt to try. And then we reached out to the International Olympic Committee. We had a few great conversations with them. They are great people. It's not a coincidence that they're managing the Olympic Games the way they are and they're being extremely successful. And then we got to a very good place where they saw, yes, that's exactly what we want to drive. It's a very healthy and responsible consumption. Beer brings a lot of the celebration aspect for the Olympic Games. So it was a clear win win. And we decided to make this partnership for the first time ever. So it was a big moment that at first we said, yes, it's happening. But then we said, whoa. And now what we do? Because we announced the partnership in January and in June the games would start. We would have to produce the beer to distribute the Beer. Everything would have to be in market by May. So it was a big rush. But it was one of the projects last year, 2024 Olympics that we will never forget. And the best part is just the beginning of a beautiful partnership. I think we win, the Olympics win and consumers win.

A (12:46)

I hadn't spotted that you launched the beer at the Olympics as well. I didn't realize that it was time to launch the beer as well. Was it?

B (12:51)

Yeah, we had Corona Cero at the time in a few markets. So we expanded during the Olympic Games to 40 markets. So it was a huge period for the brand expansion. So simply put, we were launching Corona Cero in dozens of markets during the Olympic Games.

A (13:09)

Yeah. Now, let's talk about creativity, because I noticed as well, creative Marketer of the Year at Cannes as well. So congratulations on that. Lots of awards. How important is creativity to delivering? Kind of the effectiveness that you talked about before on all the brands.

B (13:23)

A sip of.

A (13:24)

Yeah, this will help.

B (13:27)

A lot is said about creativity, and I think for us, it starts with having a clear point of view about how to use creativity the right way. And we believe that creativity for creativity's sake is not really our business. We are a beer company. We're not in the entertainment business per se. So creativity for us is means to an end. And we use creativity to solve business and consumer problems. I think this is the right way to use creativity because then people pay attention to what we do, they engage with what we do, and then it makes everything we do more effective. So that's the clear point of view we have about that. So having said that, we learned over the years that to do this right, we need to have a process. We need to train our teams on that process. And we've been doing that for many years so that we can behave as an organization the same way anywhere in the world. We have a process that is called the Creative X. We have a couple of steps in terms of how to judge creativity, how to ask for creativity, and most importantly, how to use creativity to make sure it's used to solve business and consumer problems. So that's what's behind everything we do. And then it becomes a natural part of our commercial conversations because there's a clear role for creativity to play. And then, of course, we're. We don't work for awards, but we shouldn't shy away when people recognize our work. And then, yes, we were very excited to become the Creative Marketers of the Year for the first time in 2022. And then I remember at the time they said to us, it's great, but no company has ever won it twice in a row in history. And then again, we like to dream big. We said, let's see if we can do it. And then it was really great. It was a big accomplishment for the entire organization, for the entire team to do it again in 2023. And currently BI is the only company in the world to make it two times in a row.

A (15:20)

I do love your definition there of creativity there to solve business problems. I think that's what many organizations forget. They think creativity is for creativity's sake, but actually it's always in service of a commercial goal, isn't it? And that's so critical to put creativity at the heart of solving business problems.

B (15:36)

Exactly. Because especially in the world of marketing, there's a lot of conversation about the awards and stuff. And again there's. I think it's very healthy to compare companies, to compare brands to inspire people on great work. But it needs to be great work that drives results. So we take people to Cannes, we take people to Effie's events always to make sure that they get inspired, but always with that mentality of great work that uses creativity to drive growth. So whenever we celebrate these recognitions, it's pointless if it's just about that. Like in our case, what made this process both on effectiveness with the EFFIS and also with creativity with Cannes, very meaningful is that if you take the two years we want, Khan, for example, those were two years when we reached all time high volumes, all time high net revenues and we grew brand power in our portfolio as a company. So things come together. It has to be about means and ends.

A (16:36)

Yeah. Well, it brings me to my next question about credibility of marketing as well. Because if you use creativity and you deliver the result, then the business is going to invest more in that in the future, isn't it? So how, how, what's your advice to marketers to kind of gain influence within kind of the organization and demonstrate, you know, the power that marketing.

B (16:52)

I think you, you just said it all. Ultimately, what, what this process gives us is confidence to invest, right? Because especially in every business that is designed to grow organically, which is our North Star, the brands, brands are inevitably the most important assets of any company that is willing to grow organically. So this is the means and ends need to come together to give confidence to invest. Because this we need, there must be believed that this will drive growth and shared prosperity in the end of the day. So this is exactly the process that we do now. We Always talk about driving sustainable growth. And sustainable growth creation means top line, bottom line and brand equity. Because this is what makes sure that we drive growth, that this growth is profitable, and that we do this at the same time as we're making our brand stronger to grow today and to grow tomorrow. So this is the 1, 2, 3 that we work with every day. This is what guides all my targets, my personal targets, my variable compensation. And the same thing applies to everybody in our commercial teams. And this is how we play the commercial game, which is, according to our beliefs, the right thing to do.

A (18:11)

Something I think you do particularly well actually is the consistency of your execution. Not that it's the same, but you're very, very consistent how you approach it. We did a study recently that looked at kind of brands that are consistent in their creative ideas, consistent in their partnership with agencies, consistency in way they execute. And it's. And what we discovered is these compounding effects that the more consistent you are with your strategy and execution, actually the returns get bigger and bigger over time. And I think so many brands kind of pivot every single year and change direction and so on. But I think you've been one of those portfolios that you can see the consistency coming through over many years.

B (18:47)

I'm loving this conversation because you're touching on a few points that are so crucial and so I love what you said and I couldn't agree more. And to be very honest, we've been learning a lot on that area from our own successes and especially from our own mistakes. Consistency is key and I think it's very common for us to make mistakes on that because we tend to get tired of what we do way before consumers do. I think it's a great insight that comes from self reflection and I think we're humans, so it's very common to have the effect of the new brand manager, the egos that want to bring a personal touch on every everything or a change in a group or in an agency or something like this. So we're learning to take consistency to the next level. And I think it starts by us understanding what's our job as we're here. Sometimes people say, I own this brand because I manage this brand. No, you're temporarily in charge of this asset and that is precious, the most precious thing we have in the organization and by the way, in our case, managing the brands we manage many, in many times we talk about brands that have been around for hundreds of years. So our job is to make sure that we behave as true ambassadors of these Brands that we keep them consistent and that we hand it over to the next recipient of the responsibility, having the brand in a better shape versus the way it was before. Consistency doesn't mean don't touch it, but it's different from saying change it. Brands are like people, they stand for something. And it's okay to adjust how you articulate what a brand stands for over time, but they are what they are. And I think it's very important to learn from that. As I told you, we've been learning a lot from successes and from mistakes. And the best success case probably we have in our organization. We were just talking about Corona being the most valuable beer brand in the world. It is not a coincidence that if you see what Corona does now all over the world in our system, and if you see the campaign and the commercial toolkit from 10 years ago, it is the same. We adjust exactly the language, the words here and there, a few activation elements, but the key principles of this brand, they are the same. So without a doubt, consistency plays very important dividends. And this is something that we all marketers need to take to the next level everywhere.

A (21:27)

Another example actually is Budweiser with super advertising, the Clydesdales. It's incredible, isn't it? I mean, although you evolve the story, the consistent thread throughout, that is amazing. In fact, I was looking at. We've been rating every super bowl ad for the last 10 years based on emotional response. And can you guess which is the most effective ad of all time on our database?

B (21:52)

I don't know. I would guess it's either puppies or it's the frogs.

A (21:56)

Bingo. There you go. You got it? Yeah. Yes.

B (21:59)

Okay.

A (22:00)

There you go. But I did a search in our database last night, looked at every super bowl lab we've ever tested. The maximum score, all time. Puppy. Yeah, puppy love.

B (22:10)

Well, that's great.

A (22:11)

Which just shows the power of like that consistent thing that people are familiar with. But there's a bit of a twist. Beautifully executed, but it's just the power of knowing what your brand stands for, knowing the kind of, you know, association people have with it. Incredible.

B (22:24)

Yeah, that's great. It's another great example. Well said. Budweiser. It's the number one. It's the greatest winner of the admitter in all the super bowl history. It was great to see Budweiser in the number one position again this weekend. And yeah, it's another great example about consistency.

A (22:41)

You must be in quite an unusual position because you don't just have one brand in the Super Bowl. You've got like four, I think, this year, didn't you? Yes, you had four different. You see, had Stella Bud, well, Budweiser, Bud Light and Michelob Ultra. Didn't you as well?

B (22:55)

Yes. So. But it's a great example because we can talk about, we just, we were discussing here mega brands, mega platforms, which is our commercial approach to building brands. So super bowl is a great way for us to use it. As a very tangible example. Super bowl for us is a mega platform. Why? Because people care about it. Because it's a huge beer occasion and because people have a net. It's a passion point. Right. So it's connected with the NFL, which is the number one sport in the country. So it's a passion point. It's a big beer occasion. Therefore it's a mega platform for us. And we've been connected to the super bowl and to the NFL for decades and decades. So the point is exactly to bring our mega brands strategy to life. What we have here is a perfect representation of our portfolio strategy. It's not by chance that we chose the brands, we chose to go to Super Bowl. So Bud Light is our number one brand in the portfolio and the sponsor of the NFL. But Wiser is all about consistency. The Clydesdales, like if you don't take the Clydesdale to Super bowl, you will see millions of people on social media saying, where are the Clydesdales? It's a cultural element. It's a must. So Budweiser and Clydesdales, they're synonym to Super Bowl.

A (24:15)

Yeah.

B (24:16)

Then you have Miklob Ultra, which is the fastest growing brand in the U.S. and our key player in the Core plus segment. And you have Stellartois, which is our premium brand in the portfolio. So we have the core brands. We have the core plus brand. You have the premium brand. So our portfolio strategy is perfectly reflected in our choices of brands that went to Super Bowl. There was actually a fifth brand on the regional media, which is Bush Light, that happens to be the number two brand in growth in the US as of now. So we actually had five brands. Four on national broadcasting, one in regional broadcasting. Super Bowl.

A (24:54)

Wow. Well, as a soccer fan, it was quite fun to see David Beckham appear in an ad. So.

B (25:00)

Yes.

A (25:01)

Yeah. What was the thinking behind that? Because I think that that's got. That scored brilliantly last night, in fact, on our system Monskores, that actually came. Came top of your portfolio.

B (25:09)

Oh, really?

A (25:09)

Yeah. Yeah.

B (25:10)

That's great.

A (25:11)

It was very good to see that.

B (25:12)

Now it's a, it's a Great story. It's a beautiful brand. It's a brand that is talking about consistency that comes from the 1300s.

A (25:20)

Yeah.

B (25:21)

So Stella Brewery was created in the 1300s. So it's a super special brand. It's the most premium brand there is. Like, when you talk about quality attributes, it's by far the number one beer in the industry. Stellartois. And the point is exactly that it has European heritage. It's a brand from Belgium. So, Dave, so first point, what does this brand stand for as a premium brand? The whole point on Stella is to connect with people on what really matters, because it's very easy for premium brands to connect with consumers through luxury and things that money can buy and expensive possessions. And what Stella stands for is actually luxury, is to have time to spend with what's worth more in life, which is to be with the ones you love. So this is why the tagline for Stella is for moments worth more. So you choose a beer worth more for moments worth more. That's the beer that elevates simple moments into meaningful moments. That's what the brand stands for. And then it's an European brand that is growing and that we are focusing on in the US So it was important to have David Beckham because he plays this role of an European cool guy that drinks authentically and genuinely Stella, that now that came to the US and that lives in the us so he's the embodiment of that. And then as you start getting to know David Beckham, if you watch his documentary, you see that he's a family guy. He really enjoys and values those moments worth more. So he's a perfect ambassador for the brand. And then that's point number one. Then we work with gut the agency to really put together this positioning of for moments worth more, which was very well done to really bring to life the brand proposition. And then there was a third piece, which was the following. We were in Stella dinner. We do a let's do dinner event every year. Exactly. To celebrate people getting together to have a meal with beloved people. And Matt Damon was there. Estella has a partnership with water.org and Matt Damon is one of the founder founding partners of water.org it's a partnership we have for more than a decade, providing clean water to countries in need so that people can have time to spend with their families instead of having to travel to get clean water. Anyways, we were there and then he said, I love what you guys are doing with this brand and I would love to contribute a little bit more with Storytelling. We said, let's talk. He had that conversation with our CEO, with Michel Duqueres. Then Michel said, I loved the conversation with Matt Damon, let's continue that. And then we had a couple of meetings and then they came up with that idea, why don't we connect? We create a story where this European ambassador, David Beckham, connects with an American ambassador, met Damon. And why don't you create something unexpected, like they're twin brothers, but they had no clue until a given point. And then everything starts there and we continue from that point and we were like, wow, that's really, really cool. Because it's meaningful and it connects with the brain proposition and then the rest is what you saw. This is the first step towards many other chapters that are already filmed and prepared to go live in the next couple of months. But we are very excited with the work and with the reaction we saw during Super Bowl.

A (28:59)

To your point, it was very funny as well, very good end. And actually reminded me, didn't Gut do some work tracing the origins of Stella back hundreds of years as well, which I thought was fascinating. Going back to your point about how old beer is and how, you know, the strong associations we have with it.

B (29:15)

Exactly. And it's a super, super, super rich history and heritage that Stella brings to the table on the ingredients, on the brewing process and on the quality. This is why it's not a coincidence that, as I told you, this is the brand that has the number one status on high quality attributes in the industry. When you study the origins of the brewery, the origins of the brand, it's really fascinating. And this is why I think it's another great example of a new process that we have internally. Exactly. To make sure that people embrace the brand propositions and drive consistency. The first thing that a new brand manager needs to do is to get immersed on the history of the brand. And we have museums here in Belgium, in all the different parts of the world, where we have all the history kept as a very sacred thing, so that we can make that the starting point of any new brand team, to make sure we will drive consistency. We're learning, but that's what we're trying to do every day.

A (30:20)

Yeah, bad consistency again. Actually, the other one I thought was brilliantly consistent as well, but evolving was Michelob Ultra. Last year, actually, on the System One database, it was the number one scoring ad, the one with Messi, in which I thought was absolutely brilliant. And this year it scored very, very highly as well. I thought it's beautifully excellent executed because it was Also quite nice because it had older people kind of starring in it, which I thought was quite a nice twist as well, and tapped into culture with the pickleball and that kind of thing. So that was a really good example of kind of a consistent strategy, but kind of really fresh execution.

B (30:52)

I mean, we've been having many, many discussions exactly in terms of driving consistency with Michelobotra. And what is great about Michelobutra is that I really believe it represents a new generation for beer. We see something that I find fascinating, and I think we relate with this anywhere in the world, especially after the pandemic. Everybody's trying to live a better life. Everybody's trying to live better. Everybody is now also given medicine and technology, starting to believe that they can live longer if they really take good care of themselves. So MicheloButroy is a great answer to that. What is great about beer as a category is that beer offers options and freedom of choice for consumers. From no alk to low alk to different styles, different flavors. And within that range of options, Michelob Ultra became the flagship brand that stands for low carbs and low calories. Here in the U.S. also, there's an organic beer proposition. So this is bullseye on consumer trends. Therefore, it is not a coincidence that Michelobltre is now the fastest growing brand in America. So, having said that, our job as we go to super bowl and as we bring this brand to life every day, is to really bring this proposition to life, because it is a great, light beer that has a great taste with this miracle combination driven by technology that delivers great taste with low carbs and low calories. It is called the Superior Light beer. So what we have there in that spot and in everything we do with Miklobutra is always that combination of an active lifestyle connected to the beer occasion afterwards, but in a way that you highlight the attributes of the product to reinforce that this is the Superior light beer. So this is why the campaign that we had on super bowl and that we're going to have for this year says Superior is worth playing for, which is, I think, a great way to bring all these elements together. We say that we do Michelobutra for social athletes. It's people that enjoy practicing sports because they're truly active people, but also because they enjoy hanging out with their friends and having the beer afterwards. So the best dynamic that happens in these moments is when there's some competition there. So everything starts with play for an Ultra.

A (33:14)

Yeah.

B (33:14)

And then, okay, Ultra's on the line. Let's go. And then in the end they see who wins. And Michelobotra is the ultimate price.

A (33:22)

Yeah.

B (33:22)

For them to hang out and have a good time together. So I really love this whole combo and I'm happy to see we get some. We got some very good reaction. This super bowl again.

A (33:31)

Yeah, no, it really performs very well. And how do you then take an idea like that and then execute it kind of through the line whether it's on digital platforms or in, you know, in bars. How do you take these ideas through?

B (33:43)

The first point that we always focus on is on making sure that we have a simple message. Because this message needs to be communicated in all these different channels, be it above the line, below the line, trade, so on, so forth. So if it's too complicated, you get lost in translation. So in this case it's always superior, is worth playing for. For example, Miklobutris Superior Light Beer. This is what you're going to see anywhere and everywhere. Simplicity and consistency go together hand in hand and helps a lot. Then especially when you talk about digital. This is a whole new dimension in what we need to do, right. And we have in our system an in house agency called Draftline. So we have 600 people in 14 markets organizing a few studios that exist to drive personalization at scale, which is all about understanding these mini segmentations so that we can group consumers in different ways and develop multiple endless iterations of the same campaign, but landing on different executions so that we can provide tailor made execution for different people in different places at different occasions. And this is what takes what we do to the next level. So we like to have as a North Star the ability and the approach to relate to consumers on a one to one basis to to call consumers by the name, to say hey John, like play you for an ultra. This is how we do it, right. And to provide exclusive experiences and so on, so forth. So this is the layer on building brands that I think unlocks the most powerful approach to connect with consumers not only on a rational level, but also on an emotional level because it becomes personal.

A (35:32)

It's amazing. I mean if you can see it on the big stage on super bowl and then you can experience something directly to you and you're pulling those two things together. It's quite powerful.

B (35:40)

And this is why by the way, during super bowl we have some newsrooms in a few places. It's really like a publisher, like we have people tracking everything that is being said and shared second by second. And we have all the people managing all the Interactions with consumers in real time. Because in the world as it is today, that's it. People are interacting with the brands 24, 7. It's an always on think. It's the way we operate as a commercial structure, as a brand structure has changed significantly over the last couple of years, right?

A (36:13)

Yeah.

B (36:14)

Then you add AI on top and all that. There's too much more to do.

A (36:19)

It multiplies the possibilities. So you're putting out a lot of creative work across a number of brands on high profile stages like the Super Bowl. It must be pretty important the relationship you have with your creative agencies to make sure you keep hitting that high, consistent standard.

B (36:33)

It's key. I really believe that as we are building brands and developing brand plans, it's a 50, 50 responsibility. In the end of the day, they are partners and they own the brand as much as we do. So I will connect this point back to the point you're bringing on consistency. I think the big thing we see nowadays is a lot of transactional relationships. And I think this doesn't help with consistency. I really believe that greatness comes from trust. Trust takes time to build. So we take very seriously the relationship we have with our agencies because they must be long term relationships. If we become transactional, I don't believe that greatness can come out of that because you don't have depth, you don't have trust. So our partners, they need to spend as much time as we do understanding the brands. We were just talking about the heritage, the history. They need to understand that as much as we do. They need to understand our business challenges as much as we do, our consumers as much as we do, so that our, our conversations can become leveled. Right. We all need to be at the same page. This takes time. This needs to be deep. And this is what builds trust, which gives us a chance to do greatness, to do great work. So that is I think, a very important philosophy we have. And this is why I think we need to treat them as they deserve. And in our case, we have a group, we created a group where we exactly to make sure that we would have a process to manage this relationship. And because we want them to feel like they're the superheroes, we call this group the Justice League. And so every one of the key representatives of these agencies, they have a nickname connected to a superhero. And they are the members of our Justice League. So we get together periodically and then we talk about what's good, what is bad, the gaps, the opportunities, the ratings we have in our work. Always looking to Looking forward to raising the bar. But it's always managed as a long term relationship.

A (38:55)

It's really interesting in the work we did on, we call it compound creativity. Looking at over many years brands that were successful by being consistent. We did also look at how often they change their agency and it really interesting. There was a penalty, we call it the penalty of change is that those that change their agencies regularly, it's almost like they rebase the work, you kind of drop back down to the bottom again, have to build it up. But those that were consistency, those that were consistent and had those long term relationships, there was a compounding effect where they saw the work get better and better. So it's all that knowledge they have, the relationship, the understanding of the brands and so on, and the partnership you have together. So there's evidence that that plays out.

B (39:33)

Exactly. And of course we don't have only good times. Right. But the important thing is to acknowledge that whenever you overcome a barrier, the relationship gets to the next level, it gets even stronger. And then by moving that way over and over again, you get to a point when you feel like you have someone that you can call at any time of the day, of the night. And the other way around also works. And by doing that, by understanding the business and understanding the consumers in an equal way, this is when you have the right environment to do great work, to take risks with confidence because you know what you're doing and why.

A (40:09)

Yeah. Well, it probably brings me a good question to close up on, which is like, so as, as a, as a leader in a very big organization, what advice would you give to CMOs in terms of managing the complexity, the changes in the future, multiple brands and markets. So what the kind of advice to be an effective cmo or probably I.

B (40:27)

Would say three things. You just said managing complexity. And I think everything tends to become complicated very fast. So point number one, I think it's our job to make complicated things become simple. Otherwise it's harder to be commercially integrated, it's harder to deliver a single message through different channels, so on and so forth. So turning complicated things into simple executions is a big piece of our jobs. Then I would say the other two things are connected to something that I really believe in. I think for marketers, I see our job as being a bridge between the business and consumers. And our job is to drive growth. It's to add value to both to consumers and therefore to the business. So the other two pieces of advice, and this is something that I've been learning throughout time and we should never stop learning is we need to deeply understand our business and we need to deeply understand our consumers. As we deeply understand both ends, we can do our jobs as being the bridge more effectively. So this is what I would say. Keep, keep things simple. Deeply understand your business, deeply understand your consumers.

A (41:47)

Brilliant. That is absolutely top advice, Marcel. I think I could talk for ages because there's so much to talk about.

B (41:52)

Me too. Very excited. We can keep having a couple of extra beers.

A (41:58)

I know exactly to keep the beers coming. It's been amazing. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom on the podcast and excited to see what's happening next.

B (42:06)

No, likewise. I think we're all excited. As a company, as a team, everything we do is as a big team of people that are passionate about what we do about the consumers we serve and the brands we have the privilege to represent. So thank you so much for the time and to be continued.

A (42:24)

My pleasure. Let's do it. Thank you.

B (42:26)

Thank you.

A (42:27)

Thank you very much for listening or watching Uncensored cmo. I hope you enjoyed that. If you did, please do hit the subscribe button wherever you get your podcast. If you're watching, hit subscribe there as well. I'd also love to get a review. Reviews make a big difference on other people discovering the show. So please do leave a review wherever you get your podcast. If you want to contact me, you can do I'm over on x uncensored CMO or on LinkedIn where I'm under my own name, John Evans. Thanks for listening and watching. I'll see you next.