Podcast Summary: Uncensored CMO – Forbes Guide to Being an Influential CMO with Seth Matlins

Episode Information:

• Title: Forbes Guide to Being an Influential CMO
• Host: Jon Evans
• Guest: Seth Matlins, Managing Director for the Forbes CMO Network
• Release Date: March 26, 2025

Introduction

In this insightful episode of Uncensored CMO, host Jon Evans engages in a deep conversation with Seth Matlins, the Managing Director for the Forbes CMO Network. Seth is renowned for producing influential lists such as the World's Most Influential CMOs and the Most Entrepreneurial CMOs. The discussion delves into the essential qualities that define a great Chief Marketing Officer (CMO), the challenges CMOs face within corporate structures, and strategies to enhance their influence both internally and in the broader marketing community.

The Role and Challenges of CMOs

Jon Evans initiates the conversation by highlighting the critical role of CMOs and their often-underappreciated challenges. Seth Matlins responds by addressing the disparity between CEOs and CMOs, noting that "90% of the CEOs of the world's largest companies have no marketing background or experience whatsoever" (02:00). This lack of understanding from top executives often results in suboptimal resource allocation and diminished growth prospects for companies globally.

Seth emphasizes, "The CMO's job is really the hardest job in the C-suite" (02:15), underscoring the immense pressure CMOs face to drive sustainable, profitable growth amidst limited support and understanding from other executive roles.

CMOs Transitioning to CEO Roles

Jon raises a pertinent question regarding the scarcity of CMOs ascending to CEO positions. Seth agrees that the system is "broken" (03:35) and attributes this to several factors, including a lack of financial acumen among CMOs and their insufficient focus on driving financial metrics. He stresses the importance of CMOs understanding that their primary objective is to influence "sustainable, profitable growth" (04:00), which is ultimately measured by financial outcomes.

Seth also points out that CMOs often fail to communicate the true value of marketing to CEOs and CFOs, who may "undervalue it because they don't understand it" (04:23). This disconnect leads to a self-perpetuating cycle where marketing remains undervalued and underfunded.

Building Influence as a CMO

The conversation shifts to the strategies CMOs can employ to build and maintain influence within their organizations and the marketing community. Seth shares his philosophy, "There’s nothing more influential than a job brilliantly done" (29:46). He emphasizes that influence stems from consistently delivering exceptional results and being perceived as such by peers and stakeholders.

Jon adds that effective CMOs are "obsessed with the execution of what they're doing" (43:45), highlighting the importance of hands-on involvement in both strategic planning and tactical execution. Seth concurs, stating that CMOs must "earn the permission to have your expertise trusted" (07:36), which involves managing internal relationships and setting clear expectations.

Creating and Sustaining Influence Through Leadership

Seth discusses the significance of representing the customer in decision-making processes. He references the idea of leaving an "empty chair" for the customer in boardrooms, a practice inspired by Jeff Cottrell, CMO at Topgolf. This metaphor underscores the necessity of keeping the customer’s perspective at the forefront of strategic discussions.

Further, Seth elaborates on the balance between short-term achievements and long-term strategies. He notes, "Today's CMO faces having long-term strategies measured by short-term results, which is not particularly sensical" (32:57). To navigate this, CMOs must implement robust metrics and milestones that allow for iterative progress and adaptability.

Forbes’ Lists: Influential and Entrepreneurial CMOs

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around Seth's work with Forbes in creating the lists of the World's Most Influential CMOs and the Most Entrepreneurial CMOs. Seth explains the complexities involved in measuring influence, stating, "It's incredibly difficult to measure influence" (21:15). The methodology involves analyzing over "8 billion data points" to create proxies for influence, ensuring a balanced evaluation that goes beyond mere popularity metrics like social media following.

For the Most Entrepreneurial CMOs, Seth describes the list as "100% qualitative" (35:30), focusing on CMOs who "embrace failure as opportunities to learn and get better". These CMOs are characterized by their innovative mindset, willingness to take strategic risks, and ability to apply creativity across their business operations.

Advice for Aspiring Influential CMOs

When asked about tips for CMOs to enhance their influence, Seth offers pragmatic advice:

1. Do Your Job Brilliantly: Excellence in execution naturally leads to increased influence.
2. Manage Internal Relationships: Building trust and understanding within the C-suite is crucial.
3. Be Visible and Hands-On: Active participation in key projects ensures that CMOs leave their mark.
4. Balance Short-Term Wins with Long-Term Vision: Developing strategies that account for both immediate results and future growth.
5. Represent the Customer: Always advocate for the customer’s perspective in strategic decisions.

Seth encapsulates this philosophy by stating, "If you are not marketing internally, the odds of your success are much less" (06:43).

The Unchanging Fundamentals of Marketing

In addressing the future of marketing, Seth asserts that despite rapid changes, the core responsibilities of marketing remain constant. "Marketing's job remains fundamentally about capturing attention and influencing attitudes and behaviors to drive sustainable, profitable growth" (48:25). He draws on timeless principles such as Maslow’s hierarchy of needs and behavioral economics to emphasize that human motivations are enduring, even as marketing tools and platforms evolve.

Conclusion

The episode concludes with Seth and Jon reflecting on the enduring principles of marketing and the essential qualities that make CMOs influential and entrepreneurial. Seth’s insights highlight the importance of adaptability, creativity, and strategic thinking in navigating the complexities of modern marketing landscapes.

Notable Quotes:

• Seth Matlins: "The CMO's job is really the hardest job in the C-suite." (02:15)
• Seth Matlins: "If you are not marketing internally, the odds of your success are much less." (06:43)
• Jon Evans: "Ritson said, your primary job is to be the voice of the customer in the room where decisions get made." (19:11)
• Seth Matlins: "Marketing needs much better marketing." (05:43)
• Seth Matlins: "If you don't have that, then it's the Alice in Wonderland quote. If you don't know where you're going, all roads lead there." (30:29)
• Jon Evans: "What would you do if you weren't afraid?" (40:10)

This episode offers valuable perspectives for current and aspiring CMOs, emphasizing the need for strategic influence, internal advocacy, and a balanced approach to short-term and long-term objectives. Seth Matlins’ experiences and insights provide a roadmap for enhancing the role of CMOs within their organizations and the broader marketing community.