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Uncensored CMO
Jaguar relaunch - genius move or marketing madness with Rawdon Glover, Jaguar MD
00:48:34
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Transcript60 lines
- [00:00]
Rawdon Glover
Foreign.
- [00:06]
John Evans
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the uncensored cmo. Now, producer James and I have gone on a road trip up to Jaguar hq, courtesy of the out to meet none other than the managing director of Jaguar himself, Rawdon Glover. You won't be able to miss all the noise last year around the Jaguar relaunch. So I'm here to put the questions to Rawdon to find out what's going on and what to expect when the new Jaguar finally arrives. This is an amazing conversation. It was a real discovery. You're gonna love this. Rawdon Glubber, welcome to the show.
- [00:37]
Rawdon Glover
Thank you. Great to be here.
- [00:38]
John Evans
Now, I'm delighted that we're having this conversation because it seems that Jaguar has become a very hot topic of conversation in a way that maybe it wasn't before. So you've done a great job of getting it into our consciousness. But before we come and talk about the new campaign, the new car and that kind of thing, I'd love to find out a bit about how do you get into the automotive industry in the first place and what's been your journey?
- [00:58]
Rawdon Glover
I guess I like a lot of people who don't really know what they want to do. I studied business studies, then thought marketing. Sounds quite interesting. I started my career with the Disney Corporation, I then moved into gaming, actually, and worked, set up the UK National Lottery. And then after sort of some years there, I saw an interesting opportunity as the marketing director of Audi in the uk and I thought this would be interesting. I'll go and do that for a couple of years before I try and continue my, you know, ascent up the slippery pole of marketing sort of roles. And 25 years later or something like that, I'm still here in the automotive industry. It sort of gets in your blood a bit, really. But I've done lots of different things. I was lucky. When I worked for Volkswagen Group, I worked across lots of different brands. I actually got out of marketing and then got into operations and general management. I went to North America and worked over there for a few years and then joined jlr. So that was. Yeah, how long I've been here. Yeah, about 12 years. So this is my third role for JLR, running Jaguar, a huge honor. Prior to that, I was running the UK operation, which, again, for me was. Was probably my dream job. That was the kind of, if you think about, I guess, capabilities, things that I'd done, experiences I'd had it all felt it was kind of leading up to that point. And that is a. Yeah, that's one of the best jobs in this company, I think, is the domestic market and was great fun. I loved it. Went through Covid, went chip shortages, all sorts of interesting challenges in that. And then, yeah, then the Jaguar opportunity came up when I perhaps least expected it.
- [02:35]
John Evans
Now, you took this role a fairly interesting time, I guess, because you're coming out of COVID like you say, you know, shortages in the supply chain and also brand that sales were on the way down. So pretty challenging brief, I presume to, you know, pretty challenging time to be taking over the Jaguar brand.
- [02:50]
Rawdon Glover
Yeah, yeah. I think, as I said, the job I was doing, I loved and I was really happy doing it. But when I started, you know, when I was first approached about, you know, considering this job, it was just something about the scale of it, the scale of the ambition, the complexity of what we're doing. So there's no, There isn't really a playbook to say what we should do is we're going to cease production on all of our current vehicles and, you know, whether it's supply chain manufacturing, whatever else, we're going to stop. We're going to completely reset. We're going to reset at double the price point and we're going to completely reposition the brand in the process, and we're going to do it with kind of one of the industry's most sort of cherished icons. You know, it's probably overused in the car industry, but I think Jaguar is a cherished brand, probably why there's been so much interest in what we're doing in a positive way. So I think, yeah, the scale of that was really interesting to me, the size of the challenge and I think the, you know, the best bit of career advice I ever had was don't sit on the comfy chair.
- [03:56]
John Evans
Well, you've definitely not got the comfy chair now.
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Rawdon Glover
Right.
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John Evans
Brief, delivered.
- [04:01]
Rawdon Glover
That's how I got here. That's how I got here.
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John Evans
But he's a curious one to think about. How do you make a decision on a brand, as you say, that's loved by many, many people, amazing, rich heritage. How do you decide between the evolutionary path and revolution? Because if you take Range Rover, you've done a spectacular job of, know, updating it, modernizing it, but keeping effectively all the distinctive assets in place? Jaguar, you appear to have done something quite revolutionary. So how do you make that decision between, you know, evolution and revolution?
- [04:29]
Rawdon Glover
Yeah, I think it's a really good question, a really salient question for Jaguar, because if you think about most marketing jobs, I guess most people that listen to this podcast are interested or engaged in marketing. Brand management quite often is all about small incremental steps. You're a custodian in the brand. It's about evolving things very, very slowly over time. But I think there is a sets of circumstances that were at play for Jaguar. So the, you know, the, the technological landscape was changing massively. Whether it's autonomous driving, whether it's electrification, the competitive landscape was changing massively. We've seen a huge change in terms of competition coming across from Asia, you know, the dynamics of our brand, the age profile of our client base and I guess candidly, the commercial performance of the brand. If you kind of drew a Venn diagram of all of those things coming together, it really asked, you know, the answer clearly wasn't, okay, we just need to tweak here or tweak there. We needed to make a big change, we needed a complete reset. And perhaps what we'd been doing for the previous two decades was also further evidence of that. In terms of what we were trying to do, we were really trying to play in the, in the playground of the German premium brands. You know, all of our products lined up identically in terms of the product process, the attributes. It was all like, okay, how are we going to compete here, here and here? Very, very comparative sort of product and marketing approach. But the reality in that premium segment is it's, it's dominated by manufacturing and procurement efficiencies. And in that context it was just, it's brutally competitive. And what we'd seen is that wasn't a place where Jaguar was going to thrive. Probably more pointedly, if you then think, well, when was Jaguar thriving? If you think about when Jaguar was at its best, it was selling a lot less vehicles at elevated price points. It was renowned for making beautiful sedans and sports cars. And in that context, I think what we're doing is taking Jaguar back to its natural habitat. That's absolutely what we're doing. Because that was also probably the most recent time in history where it was a really commercially viable, profitable business. And that's, I guess in a nutshell, the job I've been given, the team that are working on it is we've got to make sure that Jaguar is here in another 90 years. We celebrate our 90 year history this year and we think the best way to do that is to, is to make vehicles that are going to be future icons, that are going to be things that people are talking about in 30 years time in the same way as they are about the xjs. And the E type and some of those iconic vehicles of our past. That's, you know, when in any strategy, you think about where do we want to play and how do we think we're going to win. If you look across our landscape, that's where we think Jaguar's got the best chance. There's a lot of parallels. You mentioned Range Rover. If we look at our business model as a relatively small manufacturer on the global scale, we make about half a million cars. Our business model works where you've got a really, really compelling product proposition, you've got a desirable brand and it's operating at a certain price point. And Range Rover is probably the best illustration of that. Defender is probably the next best.
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John Evans
Yeah.
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Rawdon Glover
And there are lots of parallels with Defender in terms of what we did with Defender, you know, not that long ago, six, six, seven years ago. I mean, I remember vividly, I was in. I was in Frankfurt when we unveiled the current Defender. I was running the UK at the time. I remember that sort of sense of anticipation, fear of, you know, what have you done to this iconic vehicle? But actually what the team had done, both from an engineering and design perspective, was exactly what we should. And it was a 21st century defender. It was clear a Defender, but it wasn't, you know, it wasn't a pastiche, it wasn't trying to, you know, go back, but it absolutely understood what is the DNA of a Defender. And in doing so, we were able to more than triple the volume and significant and probably more than triple the price point. So if I'm looking for sort of parallels of what Jaguar needs to do, because we're looking to double the price point from where we have traditionally been operating, about 55, $60,000, 55,000 UK sterling. That's the challenge that we've set ourselves. But when we look across what we've done with other brands, we think, well, actually, that's. That's where JLR does succeed.
- [09:06]
John Evans
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. I mean, one of the questions I think a lot of people had is, you know, the average age of a car buyer is, I think, 52. And I think something like 70% of the nation's wealth resides in the over 50s, rightly or wrongly. And traditionally, that's where new cars, you know, are mainly bought. Whereas actually, it appears you've made a conscious decision to. To kind of target younger than that. And I found this statistic which, which actually chatting to Rory Sutherland about this, which he mentioned to me the other day, which blew my mind, which is Rolls Royce.
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Rawdon Glover
Yeah.
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John Evans
Their average, across the range, the average buyer is 45. But the average buyer of their new Spectre 35, that really blew my mind because you think a classic British brand, super expensive, super luxury, very exclusive. What is it about that bra? What is it about car buyers that have allowed that brand goes so well?
- [09:56]
Rawdon Glover
I think young, I think they've done a. I think they've done a great job in. It's clearly a Rolls Royce, and they've done a great job in attracting a new audience. And a lot of the personalization that they do is definitely key to that. But I think it speaks a lot to. Wealth is changing. You know, wealth is definitely getting younger. You know, we see that, you know, the number of. The number of billionaires under 30 in China is. Is incredible. So. And that's a. That's a global trend that's only going to accelerate. So if we look at the amount of inherited wealth that's going to land in the next 20 years, that's just going to turbocharge that whole dynamic. So, yeah, as you rightly say, probably 20 years ago, premium or luxury cars were very much the reserve of a certain age group. I think that's gone. I think that's absolutely gone. And you see that in all sectors. You'll see it in watches, in luxury watches, you'll see it in clothing, and you absolutely see it in vehicles. So for us, that's definitely a macroeconomic trend that we're aware of and we wanted to tap into and I guess a key point for us. Yes, we want as many of our existing buyers to come on that journey with us, whether as fans, as enthusiasts, or would be great as buyers. But it was very clear from the demographics of our previous client base we needed to attract a new audience, changing people's perceptions about what you stand for. And I guess this will be a theme of our conversation today. I'm sure brain's quite lazy. It's like it pigeonholes things. I know what to think about brand X, brand Y, and to actually deconstruct that and get to rewire it and to get them to think differently about that brand is not easy. Even if you've got billions to spend on communications, rewiring is difficult. So that sense about how do I get somebody to change their perception. The best approach we felt we could take was to be disruptive, was to be, you know, and in terms of the, you know, our overall brand positioning of the vehicle, when we looked at the competitive context, we definitely thought there was a white space in terms of, yes, A more. A more disruptive brand, but without necessarily some of the sort of ostentation of some of the other brands that are disruptive in that space. So, in terms of the lines of the vehicles and the design, it's very clean, it's very, very, very pure. But actually, as a brand, yeah, we wanted to stand out, we wanted to cut, cut through. So, yeah, that was a key part of the strategy for us.
- [12:25]
John Evans
And how did you make that decision on? Because I think a lot of the challenge that came back was that you discarded a lot of the sort of distinctive assets. I mean, I was wondering about the, you know, the leaping cat and the Jaguar on the front. How do you decide between what to keep and what to. What to discard?
- [12:40]
Rawdon Glover
Good question. Some things were quite straightforward. So if I think about the icons associated with Jaguar, one of them would be the growl, what's known as the growler. So it's the growling cat. Well, that's really got connotations with throbbing combustion engines, which, you know, for much of our history, over 90 years, that's exactly what it had. So it was entirely appropriate to have that on the front of the vehicle. Well, these next generation of vehicles are all electric. Does it make sense to have a growler for a car that doesn't growl? You know, for us, it didn't. Perhaps our most definitely our most treasured asset in terms of, you know, in terms of the icons associated with Jaguar, is the Leaper. So the leaper is retained, but it wouldn't be appropriate just to say, well, we've retained the Leaper and we're just going to put it on the front of a completely new design language. And, you know, as part of that process, I'm sure the team would have done that, but it wouldn't work. So what we needed to do is think about, right, how do we reinvent the Leaper to look appropriate in the context of that new design language? So actually, the way we'll use it, we've got this visual device, 18 horizontal lines, which we call the strikethrough, and it's in the negative space in the strikethrough. It's much. It's beautifully simplified. And also now importantly, leaping forward, because if you actually look at the tagorette, it's actually pointing to the left, whereas now, subtly, it'll now move forward. And where we're going to use that particular icon, we'll use it very sparingly and we'll use it on almost the most precious points within the vehicle. So think about Type 00. It's got that beautiful brass exterior plinth running just behind the front wheel arch and it's almost like a hallmark of authenticity on there. So it's not going to be used at massive scale. We're going to be very measured in terms of how we use it, because it is that most treasured asset. So as we went through, we needed a new typeface that was, you know, when you then look back and it said, okay, needs to be more modern. So the script, and effectively our device mark was then born and again we've again, slightly disruptive mixture of lower and uppercase vehicles. But that was more around how you get a beautiful symmetry and circular consistency of each of the languages. And we have this. And also then that actually opens up to all sorts of interesting artistic abstraction, probably for later on when it's a more established icon. But so we've looked at it and saying, what do we need to keep. Definitely the leaper. What perhaps we need to shed things like the growler. And then what are those new icons that we need to develop? So you'll see that monogram come into play, you'll see the strike through. So those are the horizontal lines that you see most vividly on the rear of the vehicle, but you also see them, for example, on the intersection of the bonnet and the windscreen and then into the vehicle, they flow through actually the inside of the vehicle as well. So, yeah, it's not just a branding device that we'll use in digital and other things, it's a physical, integral part of the vehicle design itself.
- [15:46]
John Evans
It's interesting you mentioned about, obviously, the move to electric, because if I think about my last experience with Jaguar, apart from Waymo, actually, which we'll come on to talk about in a minute, because big fan of that, but I remember doing a Jonathan Palmer race day, got to drive Porsches, Lotus xkr and I remember, like, going, thinking, I'm going to really love the Porsche, and leaving, going, I love the xkr, but the reason I love the XKR was just that it was the noise of the engine, it was the feeling of speed, it was the handling, just. It was very alive. And that's the kind of like feeling of Jaguars of old, isn't it? Whereas in the world of electrification, you don't have that same. You get performance, but it's delivered in a very different way. And. And I suppose we're in an age where that's now ubiquitous as a propulsion method of propulsion, isn't it? So how do you see you differentiating for the new age of electrification versus what might have been. All about performance and power and noise and emotion.
- [16:40]
Rawdon Glover
Yeah, I think the Jaguar story really is quite simple in some respects, in that we wanted the vehicle to look the way it looks and the best platform, the best powertrain for that, for us to enable. The design proportions that we'd drawn was electric. What that also gives you is certain characteristics that are important for Jaguar. Obviously, it will be the quickest, the most powerful Jaguar ever. We've worked really hard on for the production vehicle in terms of the dynamics, it has to drive like a Jaguar. So, yes, it's an EV, but actually many, you know, I've driven many EVs, I've owned many. I think I Pace is a great car to drive, but actually what we needed to do with, with this vehicle is make sure it drove like the very, very best Jaguar. So it needs to have power and reserve. It needs to be a really engaging drive. You need to be thoroughly involved with it, whether that's the, you know, the. The chassis setup or the way in which the power is delivered. You know, the. The team actually, that. That did all of the chassis work they started by. Let's spend time driving all of the classic Jaguars to find out what is the absolute essence, whether it's an F type or an XJC or an E type or a D type, kind of say, right, actually, yes, we now really understand what we're actually going for and how did we then deliver that with an electrified powertrain? And we're really excited about that, actually, in terms of, actually what they've been able to do, because, yeah, I think the car has all of the hallmarks of a Jaguar. They are great. Yet it won't be the noisy car that you've just talked about, but in terms of the engaging feeling, power and reserves, great speed. But also when you step out of the car, it's fine. You've had an incredibly engaging experience, but it's not drained you, it's not exhausting. It should be something that gets that right balance in terms of comfort and engagement. And we're really excited about. About the capability that we've got with this platform and this powertrain.
- [18:48]
John Evans
I love your reference to, you know, Jaguars of old, of being the kind of heart and soul, you know, like the E type, for example, and. And kind of reinventing that classic. What process did you go through to get to this design? Because the design is pretty striking. I mean, I think anyone's not got an opinion on it, and it really does jump out at you, doesn't it? So what goes into creating something of that scale?
- [19:09]
Rawdon Glover
I think this is a great illustration of, I guess the whole process for us really, because what you would normally do in this process in the automotive world is the engineering team would have already decided what platform it's on and then you'd say you'd give to the design team. Well, okay, that's the platform and here's the brief. We didn't do any of that. What we started with is we started with a design competition where we basically split the resource of all of the JLR design team. So it's a really large pool of talent and we had a competitive process where effectively they were all given the same brief and they had three months to basically explore creatively in that process. We ended up with 17 full size vehicles, clays but painted for all the world, looked like a production vehicle, which were then with probably four different design languages. But the purpose of that really was to make sure there was tension in the process, needed to make sure that we really pushed the envelope in terms of we never go for a safe design. Well, I've got it. Okay. We needed to say, no, I've really got to push the beta, otherwise somebody else is going to win this bumming competition. So, yeah, we ended up with a huge array universally, this design language was chosen. So that's, that's kind of a different way and that's, I think it's important to understand why it looks like it looks. But then the next part of the process is, well, okay, what platform are you going to put that on? And there isn't a platform. It doesn't work on any of our platforms, doesn't work on the competitive platforms. So effectively we devised what we call Jea, the Jaguar electric architecture. Because what we felt is actually the best chance for Jaguar to succeed is to be really, really pure and really, really consistent with the design language that the design team had come up with. So that then led us to, as I say, a dedicated architecture which meant we could then deliver that. Because I think there's probably a lot of people that listening to this podcast will go, well, it's just, I've just seen a concept car and actually by the time the production car comes out, all the joy will be gone and all the fun will be going. Right. Obviously I'm really close to the production car. I don't think anybody's gonna be disappointed. There's such a strong link between the Type 00 car that we've previewed and the first production Car, the four door gt. And that's really a tribute to, I guess, yes, the design team, but also the engineers. So I think as we were chatting earlier on, one of the things that surprised me when I came in kind of two and a half years ago, I knew the design team were really passionate about. No, the purity and you've got to maintain the integrity. I'd seen that from my old job. But I was thinking, well, how are the engineers going to live in this space? What are they going to be like? Are they going to be so fed up of all of the challenges that that's going to bring? But it's quite the opposite. They were just as evangelical about now. Our job is to find innovative engineering solutions to make sure that we absolutely retain the purity of that design. So as I say, it was an evolution from we want a creative process, create intention. To get a really bold design, we then need to, okay, right, we need a dedicated platform and then the really hard yards of. Right, okay. That's the architecture and platform. How do we make sure it meets crash safety? How do we make sure for a car, for example, with a very flat front and, you know, certain proportions, has incredible aero? Because we do need, yes, it's got to look great, but it's got to perform well as well. Right. It's got to have great range and it does. And that's really been the story of the next, I guess, two or three years as the engineers have really got involved and that's, yeah, I'm really excited when we get to unveil the production car to really get into some of how they've done that because there's some, yeah, some credible stories that'll be very.
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John Evans
Very interesting to find out as well. But I think that was part of what stunned people because when the initial designs came out that they look so concept car, if you know what I mean. You know, they look kind of bit futuristic, not like a finished car. And then you did your Paris reveal with the actual car. People still thought it was like a concept car. No, no, this is the actual car. But you kind of followed that thing through very closely, haven't you? And, but I think that, I know we're chatting earlier, but I think the, like, the color choices, the finish, it all brings that kind of slight otherworldly feel to the car, doesn't it?
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Rawdon Glover
That's, Yeah, I think color is a really important part of the brand world in terms of we want to create, you know, we want Jaguar to be, you know, we want it to be exuberant. We want it to be visceral. We want it to be, you know, to really stand out. So color choice is important. We tend to show the car with satin paint, which actually, you know, it's. The lines are beautifully simple, but also in a satin paint, it absolutely accentuates that. So you're right, there is a kind of otherworldness about it. And it creates. I mean, it's. It's great, but it also creates some challenges because I think, particularly when you're looking on your phone, you don't really get a sense of the proportions, you don't really get a sense of the craftsmanship in terms of just how it's put together. So one of the key learnings for us, actually, the experiential part of how we market the car, making sure we get people to see it and get to see it physically, because I've seen that for myself so many times where people have kind of come in, I've already decided, I don't like it, I don't like the rear, I don't like this, I don't like that. And then they actually spend some time with it and stand back from it or, you know, and get some time to appreciate it. And actually, you know, more often than not, actually, it. It really changes the opinion.
- [24:45]
John Evans
So have you shown this to the Jaguar Owners Club? Right, so let's take it to the. The toughest audience here. Come on. How did they react?
- [24:52]
Rawdon Glover
Yeah, we did. We did. I was. It was hot for me. I've done. I've done quite a few of these sort of things, but that was one of the most sort of heart in mouth. We had all of. We had a number of the various enthusiast clubs who were probably the most pure, the most passionate about the brand and its heritage and its history and prominence. And we had lots of kind of executives, so previous CEOs from Jaguar and all sorts of, you know, people that know their stuff that really understand the Jaguar brand. And we. We brought them into one of our locations. We had about 150 people, and it was like, cracky. Here we go. That's like, you know, this is. This is going to be interesting. And actually, a lot of them came in a little bit, arms folded a bit like, actually, you know, what have you done? And. And I would say pretty much, you know, to, you know, everybody that I spoke to that night said, you know, what, actually seeing it and also hearing a little bit of the narrative, some of the stuff we're talking about today, just explain why. Why is that gone why has that stayed? Why this? Why not that? When you get a chance to lay that out, people go, okay, I do get it. And I also get how that sort of harks back to. Well, that's what Jaguar used to do. You know, we talk, you know, we, everybody talks about the E type, you know, when. And I think, you know, the E type was a controversial car when it first, when we, when that was unveiled in 1961 in, in Geneva, people had never seen anything like it. It looked like it landed from space. But that's, that's Jaguar at its very best. That's what Jaguar should do. So it shouldn't. A new Jaguar shouldn't land. And everybody goes, yeah, that's nice. It should be, wow. And we should be. And we are fine with polarizing. You know, if, if, if Jerry McGovern were here, you know, chief creative officer, he'd say, look, you know, some people are going to get it straight away. Some people, it may never be for them. For others, it might take a bit more time. That's fine. But what we shouldn't do is try and be loved by everybody, because great design is not. You'll end up with vanilla. 6, 7 out of 10. And we also know this from our clinics. We've done a lot of clinics with the vehicle, as you expect, as we went through the process. And we see, yeah, we do see a number of people saying, that's just not for me. But we see the highest proportion of people saying, it's a nine or a 10. Yes. People put it on a scale of one to 10. And that's the right thing for us because we're not going to be a mass market vehicle. We want to. We're going to sell in relatively small numbers at elevated price points. And yeah, that sense around polarization is actually okay for us.
- [27:29]
John Evans
Yeah, it's funny, actually, because I did a bit of research last year that we released a can called the Extraordinary Cost of Being Dull. And basically, you know, working on the hypothesis that the biggest risk you can take is to be ignored. And it was based on some data that we, System one, where I work, where the biggest emotional response to advertising today is nothing at all. And actually that's who you're up against is, you know, so, you know, even if you polarize, it's better to kind of get, you know, get a response than nothing at all. Which brings me nicely on to your teaser. Teaser video, because I think that's what got everyone's attention quite a while before. I know. Exactly. So apologies for Asking the question that I'm sure we've been asked a gazillion times, but what was the thinking or the brief behind that, you know, behind the teaser video and then did you expect the reaction?
- [28:16]
Rawdon Glover
Okay, two part question. So first part of the question, we had a very deliberate strategy. So if you go back to where we are, I said earlier, people have a view about what Jaguar stands for. And we needed to really challenge that. So the strategy was in a number of phases. And the first phase of the strategy was to get people saying almost like, what is going on at Jaguar? If that was a reaction that, that we got, that's the bullseye reaction because we just wanted people to acknowledge that Jaguar was doing something that was different, that was, that was not what I expect. And it was bold. If we achieve those three things, actually, that's job done. Because what we then wanted to do, the whole purpose of that sort of two week build up was to get as many eyeballs as possible on the unveiling of the new design language. So, you know, think of that tease phase of we wanted to get people talking about Jaguar because, you know, part of the problem, people went, you know, and as you're researching, there's only one thing worse than being talked about and it's not being talked about. And that's where we were. So the pre phase was all about getting interest and awareness and the fact that it's a signpost that what's a tease camp, a teaser is saying that something is landing. Then on December 3, when we unveiled the car in Miami, and then the phase after that was then around, okay, we now need to basically sort of peel back the sort of the layers of design and curation and, you know, the craftsmanship that's gone into it, which is really the sort of the imagery. As we went through the next phase of the campaign, then we went into, okay, we now need to, we need to see the vehicle on the road. So we took the car, you know, we didn't want to go in a very traditional sense. So we went to Paris, to Paris Fashion Week and arrived in style. And, you know, that's that sort of sense of, okay, this is a brand that should be woven into popular culture. And, you know, where better to be than somewhere like Paris Fashion Week? Then onto a whole series of activations in North America. We were at the NBA All Stars, which again is for us is a great sort of sort of conversion of culture, sport, fashion. It's probably kind of a good area for us to be. So we took the car there got great reaction. We took the car to Monaco, which is the home of probably more traditional luxury, you know, in, in Europe. We activated in, in, in. In Japan through. We had an artist collaboration in Japan, something similar in Munich, where we were, you know, a very, very sort of prestigious but also accessible kind of, you know, art location for us. So it's then about taking the car and showing up in places perhaps that you wouldn't expect a car brand to be at, but a brand that places us in popular culture, which is, which is really an important part of the job that we need to do between now and actually, I guess, going on sale and taking our first orders. It's. I'm chipping away. We're chipping away as a team. This sense of, I know what Jaguar stands for, because we've got to elevate people's perception about what a Jaguar stands for. Otherwise, I guess the risk is, yes, they might like the car, but the brand has got to carry, you know, that sensor, you know, the vehicle design as well. It can't just be. And that was. Yeah, you know, I guess there's an important point there that was a really important part of the marketing strategy is this is not a product launch, this is a brand relaunch. So, you know, you talked before, you know, Elon Musk tweeting, where's the car? Well, actually, for me, that's, that's great because a brand should be able to talk about itself without actually the physical manifestation of it. So that was, for me, prove positive that it's, you know, we were on the right track and this whole period is about just trying to reset the brand before we unveil the first production car and then go into order taken and mass production. So, yeah, that's, I guess, a series of very measured, very strategic kind of points in the campaign.
- [32:28]
John Evans
I mean, it's pretty stunning to be able to get so many people in the world paying, you know, waiting in anticipation for your car launch. I think the campaign was a good couple of weeks, wasn't it, before?
- [32:36]
Rawdon Glover
It was two weeks.
- [32:37]
John Evans
Two weeks before. And the amount of people talking about this is going to be special. Right. You know, and then, and then you still got. When's the actual car available to buy? So there's a big gap between then.
- [32:47]
Rawdon Glover
Yeah, so we'll, yeah, we'll be on sale next year. Yeah, so. So there's a, there is a long gap and that. But that was, that was also considered. We could have, you know, we could have waited too much closer to when actually the vehicle will be on sale. But actually what we, what we want to do is that sense around. Well, if you've got, you've got, we've got time, as our friend, we need to spend this time to sort of tell people that actually Jaguar isn't perhaps what they perceive it to be and reposition the brand. So that's, that's why we went as early as we did.
- [33:17]
John Evans
Now, I think it's fair to say there was quite a lot of criticism at the time. I mean, there are a few, I think few kind of, you know. Well, it wasn't even campaign, was it a teaser video rather than the core camera. But I don't think I've seen quite so much of visceral reaction, including getting quite personal with you and other people in the team as well. It got pretty hard. How do you cope with that personally and how did the team cope with that? Because it's a, it's a tough place to be.
- [33:40]
Rawdon Glover
Yeah, I think firstly in terms of the results. So, yeah, I mean in terms of coverage, I think we got about 1.1 billion OTS opportunities to see. So huge. I mean, just.
- [33:51]
John Evans
And this is without any media, isn't it? This is just.
- [33:53]
Rawdon Glover
That's purely press coverage. We had about 500 million social media impressions. So just in terms of the scale of that and for a period of about three or four days, I think we were the most talked about thing on social media anywhere on the planet. So did we expect that? Absolutely not. But was it part of the strategy? Well, yeah, in terms of, I guess the reaction, it tells us that people care. One level, people care about Jaguar and that's much better than if it just went unnoticed and we'd done all this stuff and just people completely. That would be so much worse for me personally. I guess as we went through was a bit surreal at times, to be honest. It was a bit surreal, but I guess you just remind yourself that, okay, what is the strategy? It's not random. There's a clear purpose for what we're doing. We're doing this for this reason and then when we get to here, we do this and then when we get to here. And I guess the bit that always gave me confidence through, particularly that two week period post teas, pre unveil of the design language, we'd done a whole series of media briefings actually here in Gaydon. We had like 120 of the world's most sort of influential motoring journalists, business journalists, and we spent a whole week basically presenting the Brand strategy, the vehicle, the brand world, everything we were going to do. And you know, some of that. That's a tough crowd. You know, they've seen everything. They've heard it all before from other OEMs. But we got, we got a really, you know, you know, when the message is landing. And actually they. But they were all embargoed until December 3rd because it was all. It was all kind of done in confidence. But we knew that the majority of that coverage was going to be positive. So that sort of sense of, okay, hold your nerve, you know, the tease campaign is just that it isn't the brand. It's just to get people interested. And actually in the knowledge that when the coverage came, and again, when we evaluated the sentiments of the coverage from that point onwards, actually, certainly in the media, that that was much more balanced and again. And many, many, just very, very positive.
- [36:07]
John Evans
Yeah, with a few people in the comments actually on my LinkedIn just saying, please can you buy Rawdon a pint, because he probably needs one by now. There is a beer o' clock now, so we can go do that. But there is a lot of understanding for the position you find yourself in, what happens next in the process of launching a car. So you talk about available next year. So I've noticed there's some spy shots out there at the moment, you know, in the usual zebra. But is there any logic to why zebra paints? Is that just a tradition in the car industry?
- [36:39]
Rawdon Glover
No, it's, it's. I mean, as part of the production process, you know, you have to. Obviously we have to put the car through its paces and some of that requires us to be on public roads. And actually, what you don't want to do is to. Is to just go out and say, here's the car, before you've actually done your global launch and everything else. So camouflage is required for that because of the very distinctive shape of the vehicle. Actually, there's lots of physical camouflage as well as actually the zebra. The zebra stuff that's actually on the, on the surfacing as well, which over time, actually, you have to. You have to basically gradually reduce that because you want to make sure that, you know, whether it's wind noise or fit and finish, whatever else, you're. You're getting closer and closer. So as we go through the process, the level of camouflage will reduce as we get closer to the unveil. But this is really all about the testing process. So we are in that stage of we're building prototypes, we're putting lots of literal miles on Them we're doing lots of testing rigs. We're really just putting the vehicle through its paces to make sure that when it comes it's absolutely optimized. And that's really the period we're in now from an engineering and a manufacturing perspective. From a brand lens really say it's, it's about, you know, this phase is about brand interest. What we've got about 35, 000 people globally. That said, look, I'm really interested, keep me informed. So we talk to them on a, on a monthly basis about just behind the scenes stuff, what's going on, make them feel like they're on the inside. And then the next phase we're right, okay, here's the production car, here are all the specs, here are the prices. And the specs will then get into a series of preview events where people get to see the car physically. That'll be, as I said, that'd be really important for us to see the car in the flesh so to speak as we then really then just try and build an order bank ahead of our sort of delivery date. So those are the phases for us. If you think about it in terms of okay, yeah, build awareness and interest in Jaguar, right, That's the car now allow people to really luxuriate, spend time on the car and then you've still got time then to build the order bank. Because in the price points we want to be in, we really want to be a brand that's in the main actually built to order. I don't really want people coming to a Jaguar retailer and saying there's 25 here, which one do you want? That's not a luxury experience. Now clearly in some markets, North America, we want, it's more of a market that's sort of a buy from stock. But even then, example, if you look at Range Rovers, you know, they don't tend to have a lot of stock. That's. It should be something that's part of the, part of the desire and part of the process to think actually there's a little bit of waiting. I want to get exactly the one I want in terms of colors, interiors, trim, etc.
- [39:31]
John Evans
Well that's interesting in terms of what does that mean for dealerships? Because the dealerships obviously can't sell Jaguars now, can they? How will that change in terms of how you, how you sell?
- [39:40]
Rawdon Glover
Yeah, I mean with, with different markets are, we call it sun setting. So effectively the, the end of our current product range at different times. So UK's already finished. Europe has Largely finished. Other markets will go on for a bit longer. China and the US will gone for a bit longer. So it's different in different markets. But, yeah, effectively for markets like the uk, where we have. We finished sale in retail in November of last year, effectively, you know, fortunately we've got up, we've got other brands in the stable and they will be focusing on Discovery and Defender and Range Rover. And then as we get further down the track, it'll then be about, okay, how are they engaging their black books, their client base, to preview and to showcase the Jaguar product to then feed into that order bank? So it's not straightforward. I think if we had standalone distribution, it was just Jaguar, clearly it would be an awful lot more problematic. But the very, very fact that we've got three very healthy other brands that actually the retailers can focus on is really the strategy in that interim period, while we have this sort of fallow period between.
- [40:46]
John Evans
Well, it's a really, really good point because I should congratulate you on your financial results from last year. Best in a decade. Despite all the, despite all the drama surrounding your announcement, you managed to turn a decent profit and increase your margin.
- [40:58]
Rawdon Glover
Yeah. So, yeah, record ebit and yeah, for us, in terms of just managing, managing our debt to a point of exactly on target, where we wanted to be in terms of liquidity, which, yeah, in the current climate is really powerful, really strong. And at the same time, as you know, at the moment we are continue, we are investing significantly in the new product ranges that are coming for all of the brands. So that's unrelenting. So we have to keep generating the revenues to, to ensure that we can.
- [41:29]
John Evans
Continue investing, but makes a lot of sense. And one thing I wanted to ask you about as well, only because I spend quite a bit of time in LA and sometimes San Francisco, and producer James here has kind of got me into the habit of taking Waymos everywhere, which of course is a great partnership with you guys. It's a phenomenal way to experience the brand. I mean, I have to say, and I'm not saying this because you're here, but I was really pleasantly surprised that the quality of experience that you get in the I pace, you know, the comfort, the leather, the interior, the music, everything was a light. And a couple of things occurred to me. One was I was really surprised at how quickly I adjusted to autonomous driving. It was really. It was a surprise that I was like, within a few seconds, I'm like, oh, this is the way to go now. And then the second thing that I noticed was how many people outside were taking photos and videos of the, of the driverless car. But I just wondered from your point of view, from a Jaguar perspective, is that a partnership that we can expect to continue and does that have a role in how you kind of market the car?
- [42:27]
Rawdon Glover
Not currently, no. So not beyond. I pace. There's no, there's no plan to continue with, with Rome in that context. I think also the type of products that we'll, we're selling is, may not.
- [42:36]
John Evans
Suit the kind of, doesn't transportation.
- [42:38]
Rawdon Glover
Yeah, I think you're right. That whole experience has been fascinating, but it's been a really, really interesting partnership for, for both of us. I think the, you know, but I think what's interesting there about you say people are people taking photographs, people stopping, because obviously the, the novelty of not having a driver in the car is, is noteworthy at the moment. I, I, there's almost a parallel there for me. You know, going back to the new design language is so different and I guess that's probably the thing I'm looking forward to most, you know, I'm looking forward to driving along the motorway and being overtaken by one of our cars and just seeing everybody else's reaction to it because I, I genuinely, you know, I think that's going to be just such an exciting moment because it does look like nothing else. And I, you know, there's been a few, lots of moments along the way. We talk, you know, talk about the ups and downs of car development. I remember vividly we did some, we did a clinic which is in itself not particularly unique. We had, we had some of our products, we had lots of competitor rights and really good capable vehicles and we had them here in the design studio. And I was up on the mezzanine floor just, you know, just before all of the, all of the clients came in and got to crawl all over them. And it was just the moment of sight. I just looked at our cars. I thought, okay, there's some great cars here, some of the competitive set, but nothing, nothing looks like ours. Really distinctive, really differentiated and that just sort of cents around. Actually that's, yeah, that keeps the fire burning and just reminds you that it's the, it's the right thing for Jaguar to be doing. And again, whether it's going back to the, you know, the history of the E Type or the XJS or the SK220, this is, this is what Jaguar should be doing. This is in the DNA of the brand and that's, and we talk about, you may have heard the expression, you know, your listeners may have heard the expression, this copy of nothing. What, what is copy nothing mean? Well, our founders, William Lyons, had, this is a really inspirational individual. He had this expression that a Jaguar should be a copy of nothing. And by that what he meant was, you know, when everybody else is kind of going this way, Jaguar has got to have the strength of its convictions to do something completely different. I think in many ways the, the essence of that, the spirit of what we're doing with, with this, you know, pre. Imagination of Jaguar is entirely in keeping with, with that philosophy. With that philosophy and that. And I think when you see them on the road, it's just, it is going to be incredible. It's gonna have a room.
- [45:08]
John Evans
Well, talking about seeing them on the road, question here from Mr. R. Sutherland, which is how do you get your name on the list to be first in the country to get hold of one? Is there, is there anyone we can speak to?
- [45:18]
Rawdon Glover
It's. Well, I, I think, I, I think, I think Ferrari definitely, he can come straight through to me.
- [45:26]
John Evans
He'll be very happy.
- [45:27]
Rawdon Glover
So I, I, I. Well, we go on sale next year and actually that will be an important part of the elevation of the brand is not just your product proposition or even the marketing, actually the client service. One of the things we also know is that there will be a lot of people that will want to feel like they've got a direct relationship with the brand. However they purchase the vehicle, they want to feel like they're absolutely on the inside. So things like our preview events, who we get into the car early on, who are those early, you know, big, you know, sort of, you know, influences in the, in the broadest sense of the world. That will be opinion forms is a really important thing for us. And I think that will, you know, particularly in some markets. You know, I was, we were critiquing our approach for markets. You know, to treat Asia as a generic is probably folly. So what we do in, I think Japan will probably all about craftsmanship and form, whereas I think somewhere like South Korea, which is a market which is probably much more about fashion and, you know, who's driving it, there'll be different things that we'll need to dial up and down in different markets, but I think everywhere, who are the first people that are going to be seen in Jaguars is going to be super important for us. So, yeah, that's definitely, definitely an R.
- [46:44]
John Evans
To do part of the plan. Brilliant. Well, I think it's fair to say you've definitely captured everyone's attention and built up a lot of anticipation. So I personally, I'm very excited to see what happens next. I mean, massive congratulations on what you've done. I think it's superb. And personally, I'm just, you know, can't wait to see the next chapter as it, as it hits the market. Exciting.
- [47:05]
Rawdon Glover
It's. I mean, it's genuinely. There's a huge team of people, whether it's the designers, the engineers, the marketing folk that have been involved in this and I'm, yeah, just privileged to be able to be the one that's talking to you. But there are so many people for whom this reimagination of Jaguar is deeply personal. And I didn't.
- [47:24]
John Evans
Well, that. That's what you uncovered, isn't it? I mean, you know, whether by design or accident, it's, it's. And that's a lot to work with, I think, as a, you know, as a marketer.
- [47:33]
Rawdon Glover
So. And I think that, yeah, that sort of custodianship, it's a really fine balance, maybe is the final point, because the gravity of what we're doing should never be lost on you when you're managing and reinventing a brand. But if it weighs too heavily on your shoulders as well, it's going to stop you doing when your very first question about why such a big move. So that's the balance we're really trying to get right.
- [47:58]
John Evans
Yeah. Brilliantly said. Thank you. Okay, Ran, that was wonderful. Really appreciate it.
- [48:02]
Rawdon Glover
You're welcome.
- [48:02]
John Evans
Thank you very much for listening or watching uncensored. I hope you enjoyed that. If you did, please do hit the subscribe button wherever you get your podcast. If you're watching, hit subscribe there as well. I'd also love to get a review. Reviews make a big difference on other people discovering the show, so please do leave a review wherever you get your podcast. If you want to contact me, you can do I'm over on X UncensoredCMO or on LinkedIn where I'm under my own name, John Evans. Thanks for listening and watching. I'll see you next time.