Lessons from sh*tty moments (and bosses) [Uncensored Renegades]

Summary

Uncensored CMO – Uncensored Renegades: "Lessons from Sh*tty Moments (and Bosses)"

Host: Jon Evans
Guest: Corey Marchisotto
Date: March 9, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this candid, no-holds-barred episode, Jon Evans and Corey Marchisotto bravely tackle “sh*tty moments”—particularly those involving bosses, leadership, and the messy realities of professional life in marketing. Through personal stories, pointed reflections, and a few cathartic laughs, they examine how negative experiences—however painful—can fuel growth, resilience, and even better leadership. The pair dive deep into mutual accountability, the dangers of blame cultures, the vital art of de-escalation, the double-edged sword of high expectations, and the razor-thin line between disaster and breakthrough during crisis. The mood is playful but insightful, with both hosts sharing vulnerabilities and practical lessons for marketers and leaders alike.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Prompt: Why Talk About "Sh*tty Moments"?

• Both hosts agree that honest conversations about difficult workplace experiences are often missing from public discourse. Corey suggests:
  "Let's have the conversations that no one else is having." (00:29)

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2. Story One – The Boss Who Inspired Fight (Corey: LVMH, “J.R. Ewing”)

• Corey recalls her first corporate experience, where her boss (nicknamed “J.R. Ewing”) publicly barked orders and treated people like cattle.
  • Memorable Details:
    • The demeaning “ladies, ladies, front and center” call, the power-posing, and immediate sense of wanting to flee.
  • The Lesson:
    • Corey turned humiliation into motivation:

      "What would you say to J.R. Ewing now?... Thank you. That moment gave me fire... I'm gonna go as far as I can, as fast as I can... so women like me will never get treated like this on my watch." (03:17)

    • Harnessing negative experiences as fuel for leadership and change in workplace culture.

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3. Public Blame and the Dangers of Shame (Jon: Corporate Failure & Fall)

• Jon recounts a high-stakes product reformulation failure. The fallout resulted in the loss of 20% of the business and public shaming by a boss who declared, "We have a marketing problem." (05:50)
  • Despite collective decision-making at the executive level, Jon alone was publicly implicated.
  • Investigation later revealed the core problem was elsewhere (factory quality control).
  • Reflection:

    "It was just the opposite of [‘support in public, challenge in private’]... It just set an atmosphere of blame." (08:29)

  • Lessons Learned:
    • Having open conversations after the fact can clarify intentions and improve relationships (07:19).
    • Importance of mutual accountability and avoiding a culture of fear, which stifles innovation and personal growth.

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4. Dealing with Harsh Feedback: The Power of De-escalation (Corey: Shiseido)

• Corey describes a tense encounter with her French boss at Shiseido, who accused her work of being “poor.” (10:10)
  • She managed her instinct to react emotionally, instead inviting her boss to specify his concerns:

    "Poor doesn't help me. What specifically are you not happy about?" (12:29)

  • Outcome:
    • This led to a productive dialogue and set a new standard for feedback.
    • Turns a “shitty moment” into genuine learning and growth for both parties.
  • Corey’s de-escalation tip:

    "Don't feed hostility. Do not feed hostility. So if you are being faced with a hostile moment like that, you have to use the tools in your toolbox to de-escalate." (15:20)

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5. Impossible Expectations and Burnout (Jon: Brewdog & James Watt)

• Jon shares a story about working for a brilliant but unforgiving boss at Brewdog—James Watt—who thrived on setting "impossible and unreasonable expectations."
  • "This will only work if we can produce a beer 10 times quicker than anybody else... This will only work if... we can create a digital platform that reaches more people..." (16:52)
  • While these challenges can yield growth, failure trajectories led to immediate dismissal.
  • The boss forgave himself for missing expectations but not others, depleting the team and burning out leadership.
  • Reflection:

    "There is a line that you have to draw between the unreasonable expectation that drives thinking and action... and what is unrealistic and puts too much pressure..." (18:34)

  • Corey warns:

    "Nothing good happens when fear is in the driver's seat. People are not going to perform at their best... as leaders, we have to make sure the energy field is inviting people to deliver their best work." (19:44)

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6. Professional Near-Misses and Humor as a Diffuser (Corey: The CEO Who Came Back)

• Corey recounts accepting a job offer to leave Shiseido, then changing her mind after speaking to a mentor who told her:

  "So far, all I've heard is your head talking. I want to hear from your heart." (23:13)

  • Staying put, she burned a bridge with the other CEO—until, months later, he became her new boss.
  • Corey broke the awkwardness on his first day with humor:

    "What, are you stalking me now?" (25:24)

  • The use of levity instantly defused the tension, restoring a workable relationship.

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7. The Razor-Edge of Crisis—COVID & Resilience (Jon: System1)

• Jon reflects on the early days of Covid when advertising spend collapsed and his company faced existential risks.
  • Weekly, they assessed survival scenarios, cutting costs, and preparing for layoffs.
  • He was open with contacts about the need for urgent business, prompting a collaborator to become a customer and “write a check,” saving jobs and turning the business around:

    "It got so tense because every week unless we can sell X, we're going to have to do Y... Just being vulnerable with somebody... you just don't know where the answer to a shitty situation is going to come." (28:11)

  • The crisis led to several years of growth and reinforced the value of openness, grit, and never ceasing to look for a solution:

    "There are certain moments where the gap between success and failure is just razor's edge thin... take however bad the situation, keep pushing and looking for the answer." (29:45)

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8. Final Reflections: Lessons from the Bottom

• Corey summarizes:

  "The greatest lessons come from the shittiest moments. They have the most to teach you... just go do hard things. That's where the lessons lie." (29:48)

• Jon echoes the importance of brutal honesty—with customers and oneself—especially under pressure, and how these moments force necessary conversations and growth. (30:30)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Corey: "Thank you. That moment gave me fire... so women like me will never get treated like this on my watch." (03:17)
• Jon: "We have a marketing problem." (05:50)
• Corey: "Don't feed hostility. Do not feed hostility." (15:20)
• Jon: "This will only work if..." (16:52)
• Corey (Mentor’s advice): "So far, all I've heard is your head talking. I want to hear from your heart." (23:13)
• Corey (to new boss): "What, are you stalking me now?" (25:24)
• Jon: "There are certain moments where the gap between success and failure is just razor's edge thin." (29:45)
• Corey: "The greatest lessons come from the shittiest moments. They have the most to teach you." (29:48)

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• 00:29 – Setting the tone: “Let’s have the conversations that no one else is having.”
• 01:24-04:10 – Corey’s LVMH “J.R. Ewing” sh*tty boss story and how it sparked ambition.
• 05:49-09:29 – Jon’s experience with public blame and lessons about collective accountability.
• 10:10-16:11 – Corey’s de-escalation story with French boss at Shiseido: feedback, conflict, and resolution.
• 16:28-20:51 – Jon details unreasonable expectations and burnout at Brewdog with James Watt.
• 21:00-25:36 – Corey’s awkward “boomerang CEO” story and humor as an olive branch.
• 25:52-29:45 – Jon’s Covid crisis, company at the brink, unexpected rescue, and growth comeback.
• 29:48-end – Final thoughts: why hard, “sh*tty” moments yield the most powerful professional growth.

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Takeaway

This episode delves fearlessly into uncomfortable territory to reveal how the worst moments—be it toxic bosses, public blame, or commercial crises—can spark the greatest insights, growth, and team culture improvements. Whether you're a leader or an aspiring marketer, these stories emphasize resilience, the art of honest communication, and turning adversity into opportunity.

Transcript

[A]

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Uncensored Renegades. This is the 20 minute podcast where Corey Marchisotto and myself tackle one big question every week. I hope you enjoy this. Now, if you are enjoying it, I've got one request to make. We're putting this out on the current uncensored feed for a limited time only. So if you're enjoying it, go over to Uncensored Renegades, hit subscribe and never miss an episode. Anyway, without further ado, if you. Let's get into it. K boss, we're back.

[B]

What's up?

[A]

What's up? Now? One of the things when we were thinking about this show, you said something which was let's have the conversations that no one else is having. I love that. And that should be our bar, shouldn't it? And then it, almost immediately after was there we said, why don't we talk about shitty moments?

[B]

Shitty moments brought to you by shitty bosses.

[A]

Exactly right. This seemed to be the immediate thing we went to after you said that. So why don't we do it? Right, I'm ready. Let's bring on the.

[B]

This might be an hour, John, I don't know.

[A]

And I recap in this 15 minute. Who's 15 minute? Whose idea is the 15 minutes?

[B]

This is gonna have to be a multi part series because the shitty moments are a giant pile.

[A]

They are a pile.

[B]

They are a pile.

[A]

And we're gonna attempt to count down our top threes here. This is gonna be interesting. Yeah, why don't you go first? Go on, give us your. Are we gonna count this down in order? Are we? Or just in any particular order?

[B]

I'll go first. It was my first corporate job. So imagine a bright eyed, bushy tailed, I went out and bought a beautiful pantsuit from Zara. This is my. The moment I've been waiting for my entire life. And I get into the office and they show me the way to my cubicle. I meet the women who are going to train me. I'm in sales operations at LVMH and life could not be better. And then all of a sudden I hear this. Ladies, ladies, front and center, front and center. And it felt like somebody punched me in the stomach. I was like, what is that? So I walk next door to the two girls who are training me and I'm like, what, what? What? What? What is happening? Somebody tell me what's happening. They're like, oh, that's the boss calling us into his office. And I was like, I spent my whole life driving to this moment so I could be Called in like cattle to J.R. ewing's office. And I will call him J.R. ewing. For those of you who've seen Dallas, he was definitely a Texan. And when we walked into his office, I shit you not, he. He leaned back on his chair, put his hands behind his head, put his feet up on the desk like this, and started barking orders at us. I wanted to quit. Every fiber of my being went, you know, fight or flight mode. This was flight mode. Just get out of this situation. This is absolutely. How is this humanly possible? And somebody asked me about this story not that long ago, like a couple of years ago. And they said, what would you say to J.R. ewing now? And it's the same two words, and you know what they are? Thank you. That moment gave me fire. It gave me all the fire I needed to say. You know what? I'm gonna go as far as I can, as fast as I can to. To be in the highest position I can get to. So women like me will never get treated like this on my watch. And that fire is really important because you can turn it into passion, which can drive progress. And that's exactly what I did. So, J.R. ewing, if you're out there and you know who you are, thank you.

[A]

Wow. That is. I don't think many people would have that response to it, but you're right. You know, use it. Use that to make change and be. Be the change you want to see. Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I got quite a long list, but I'll try and narrow it down. Yeah, but one of the. Just to pivot slightly to inspiring bosses. Just before I get into the. One of my favorite bosses, I'll give him a little name check. He does listen. Paul Ford, one of my very, very early bosses, he had this phrase which I learned, which was always challenge in private, but support in public. Because we used to turn up to meetings and, like, even if I was wrong, he would support me, and then he would give me the feedback in private. I love that as a value. And I discovered the opposite of it, where years, years later, I got to kind of senior position. I was managing a big energy brand in the uk, and we had this awful scenario where we reformulated. It spectacularly backfired. We lost about 20% of the business, you know, pretty much overnight. Everyone's missing bonuses. It was so bad that I think on the Tokyo Stock Exchange, it had to be announced. You know, it was a disaster. And the thing I remember was we had made the decision together as an executive. I was the marketing director. So I was the public face of the project. Right. But as an executive from the supply chain through to HR, through the finance, through sales, etc. We had, I remember the meeting, I remember literally he had said, right, if you want, if you agree with this decision, go and stand there. If you disagree, go and stand there. And if you're not sure, stand there. Everyone was huddled over the, yes, we're doing this. It was one of those hold hands, we're all going to jump together. Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Until it went wrong. And when it went wrong, the very first all hands company meeting, my boss stood on stage and I will never forget the words he used, he said to everybody, we have a marketing problem. Now, interestingly, I sort of know what he means because, you know, it is a marketing problem, right? The fact that you've reformulated and people are rejecting it and the fact that we need to win them back and we need to engage with them and all that sort of thing. He's right. And to some extent he's right. But that's not what people heard. What people heard is this is on John. That's literally what everyone heard. They went, wow, he is literally named and shamed. Now this also, by the way, was before we'd done the investigation to find out what gone wrong. And when we did the investigation, we actually identified that the thing that had gone wrong in the project turned out to be something to do with the factory and quality control and that kind of thing where they weren't making to the spec that we had signed off. So if you wanted to find the problem, that's where it was. But unfortunately, because publicly it was kind of merchandise as this is a marketing problem and it was just the opposite of that supporting public challenge in private moment.

[B]

Now you heard this is on John and you felt named and shamed. But did everybody hear that and was that the intention?

[A]

I don't honestly know. I don't think I've ever had that conversation with him because sometimes we hear,

[B]

right, it passes through the filter of our mind. You are obviously insecure and sensitive about this moment because this thing went wrong and nobody loves when things go wrong. So it could be that you heard that, but perhaps everybody didn't hear that and perhaps he actually wasn't naming and shaming and I think it's important to actually have the conversation. So when those kind of moments arise, to go to said individual after and say, could we talk about this for a minute? I heard this. Is that actually what you meant?

[A]

I that's a very, very, very, very good Point. And I mean, the other element to it which is interesting is in all the investigation we were doing, he almost said, right, that they are available options to you to investigate and those options are not open to you. So it was. There was such control over how the communication of what went wrong was gonna be, you know, how the story was going to be told, which I thought was interesting. So rather than just because. Actually, there's another lesson I've learned in my career is that when something goes wrong, you have to keep your mind open to the possibility of worse.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

I mean, I had a prior crisis a couple of years before this one where a new juice brand had failed, and actually we ended up making. I remember the number 96 different lessons, right. We'd done this massive investigation and what we hypothesized at the beginning, compared to what we actually learned by the time we'd gone through the proper process was completely different. And the same thing was happening here. I knew at that point that when we did the investigation, there are all manner of possibilities as to what had gone wrong. But to name it from the beginning. But again, I mean, look, I mean, being generous, I could say everything's marketing. So, yes, we have a marketing challenge. Even if you just said a marketing challenge might sound different to markets, it might even be the words that were used that, you know, shamed it. But it just set a kind of. I don't know, it just set an atmosphere of blame. Blame and. And publicly. So, yeah, to the extent that everybody was going, you're getting fired. I might dig nine months later. I did, but it took nine months. I'm like, geez, that was slow. You know, But. But there was literally a. You know, there was a.

[B]

There was a. I was not expecting

[A]

that there was a mark on my back for nine months. I mean, interestingly, in terms of. Actually, back to your first point, I chose in that moment to decide, you know what? I can either let this get to me or. Or I can go, you know what? I'm going to do the best ever relaunch of this brand and put everything I've got into it. So, yeah, if I get fired, when I get fired, it will not be down to marketing competence. And I remember, I remember then setting group KPIs for everybody and being very transparent about it and literally telling everyone, right, we're going to do this by then. I'm going to do that and that. And do we all agree that this is the way out of this crisis? Yes, we do. Okay, Right. So that by the End of it. If you fire me, you're not firing me for performance. You have to find another reason.

[B]

Well, part of creating the cultural conditions necessary for innovation of any type to thrive is mutual accountability. If you're working in a company, you are, by definition, on a team. If you're an entrepreneur by yourself in your closet, in your home office, it's all on you. There's one person to blame it yourself, right? If you're in a company, by definition, you're part of a team. And if an organization doesn't have mutual accountability, and if it starts to get into blame, John, this is your fault. Then people take that around them, and then they become afraid to make a mistake. And then you start to see the decay set in or the rust set in. So I think what's really important as leaders is to recognize, first of all, own it. Right? Like, I do this all the time. I'll be like, I totally screwed this up. This is on me. Let me tell you how that happened, what I learned from it, and what I'm gonna do about it. And that's the kind of accountability we take for ourselves. And then as a group, we all know none of us are making decisions in a vacuum. I have a similar story in one of my shitty moments, which was a boss of mine. He was French. I was American. We were working in the U.S. division of Shiseido, and he came over to my office with a body language that felt very negative. His facial expression was dark. His body language was. And he was holding a group of paper in his hands. And he walks over to my office, and he just stood there, said nothing. Talk about human torture. I'm like, man, am I about to get fired? I have no idea what's going to come out of this guy's mouth. So I'm just waiting for him to say something because his body language is telling me that the tornado has arrived in doomsday is here. And he finally picks his head up, takes the paper, and throws it at me. And he said in a very heavy French accent, the marketing in this newsletter is poor. And he said poor in such a harsh French way that like. Like he spit. And I'm sitting at my desk. Here we go again. What happens to you in those moments? Fight or flight. And you have to learn how to override that. Because I could feel the fight or flight set in. I wanted to get up and leave the room. How dare you tell me my work is poor is what's happening in my head. You son of a bit. Like, all that all that's happening in my head, right? But instead of feeding into that, I took a deep breath and I looked at him and I said, why don't you have a seat? And he came in and he sat down and I said, poor doesn't help me. What specifically are you not happy about with my work? And then we had a very productive conversation. So what started as this really horrible moment through a very simple act of de escalation, like, let me invite you in, have a seat. And it was actually a really incredible moment. And he. He's one of my favorite bosses. So this was a shitty moment with, with a great boss is he understood very clearly that his feedback wasn't helpful. When you say to somebody, your work is poor. Yeah, what do you want me to do with that? I can't do anything with that. If you would like me to do better work, I need to know specifically what it is that you're not happy about. And then I can work to make it better. In the end, he was right. It was shitty work. And what he was actually upset about was that he knew I could do better. So this moment actually became this positive moment between him and I where he didn't know how to express it. So he basically was pissed off that I would turn in this kind of work because his expectation of me was so much higher.

[A]

I love that. I've had similar, actually. It's funny, isn't it? Sometimes when someone's clearly not capable, you. You actually try and encourage them because they got a confidence gap or whatever. And then someone who's really good and they usually have a star standards and they slip to an A. You tend to get upset because you're counting on them because you knew that you just. I'm going to Corey, because I know it's going to be gold dust, right? And then when it's just the gold, not the dust, if that's even a phrase, you know, it's true, isn't it? It's funny how that. It all comes back to expectations.

[B]

Expectations are a dangerous thing.

[A]

They are. I love the presence of mind you had though, because in. You quite rightly could feel emotional upset, anger at that point. But to have the presence of mind to turn that into. And I'm gonna learn here, you tell me what it is really. It's a good tool to have in the toolkit, isn't it?

[B]

The tool is the de escalation. And there's a very simple phrase. Don't feed hostility. Do not feed hostility. So if you are being faced With a hostile moment like that, you have to use the tools in your toolbox to de. Escalate. There's many ways to de escalate. Kindness, humor, pattern disruption. You have to find a way to switch out of this particular channel you're on in that moment. And again, that means first fighting against your own instinct. If I had given into my instinct, him and I would have been at war. We would have been screaming at each other, and where was that going to get us? So I think that taking that first moment to recognize what your actual instinct is and then working against it with the tools in your toolbox is the key takeaway here.

[A]

That's. That's so helpful. I'm personally going to take a lot away from that because I think that particular tool is. Is really helpful in defusing situations and also getting to what the insight is, because sometimes it's surprising, it's not what you think. And you also don't know how they're feeling and what's going on for them as well.

[B]

What's the second one on your list?

[A]

Well, the next one is gonna be actually. So I was at Brewdog for about three months before getting fired. So you get the pattern here.

[B]

I'm sensing a pattern.

[A]

There is a pattern. I know, I know, I know, I know. And I have to say in the spirit. Cause he's coming on the show soon, so. And you know, I'm sure, I'm sure we'll have this conversation.

[B]

That's great.

[A]

He's equally the most brilliant person I've worked for and equally the most challenging person I've worked for. He had this phrase, which I loved, which is like, this will only work if. Right. So he said it will say, this will only work if we can produce a beer 10 times quicker than anybody else. This will only work if we can create a digital platform that reaches more people than anybody else, basically all the time. He's kind of setting these impossible and unreasonable expectations. Now, to the extent that. Which impossible and unreasonable expectations drive you to do things you never thought possible, great. But then there's this line that tips into the consequences of not meeting that then basically get fired. Right. So the moment I didn't deliver on the impossible and unreasonable expectation, I got fired. Because he took it literally, right? He said, you've got. You got to do this. Yeah. In three weeks. If you don't, you're out. Right. And it was as simple as that. But what I noticed about that is for him, and I'll have this conversation with him, is that he was able to forgive himself when he didn't meet those standards, but he wasn't able to forgive other people when they didn't meet those standards. So I even wrote a presentation for him the day I got fired, which was our relationship will only work if. And I'd actually thought through the permission to fail, the fact that I could learn from it, the responsibility taking, ownership for things, etc. Etc. But yeah, the ability to draw the line between the unreasonable expectation that drives thinking and action and, and, and performance. But there is a line that you have to draw between then what is unrealistic and puts too much pressure and too much stress on the system that it actually collapses. And I think that balance can be hard.

[B]

So I can listen to this episode. When you have him on who, who are we referring. Who should I be looking for in the uncensored?

[A]

No, exactly. So look out for James Watt, who as, as I was saying is, is just, I mean what he's probably created actually from a UK point of view, probably the standout startup scale up of the last decade, I think valued at over 2 billion, a global craft beer brand, insanely successful. But the, the pace of growth to achieve that just leaves so many, so many people burned. You know, and it's this. I always found the challenge within was this balance between incredible ambition to move 10 times quicker, break things, do things amazingly, but when things break, the zero opportunity for a second chance. So you just get, you just basically burn people all the time. And I mean, I think he went through an entire leadership team.

[B]

I was going to say that doesn't sound like a place where you're going to have longevity.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. And I think there's, there's got to be some kind of balance between being able to learn from failure, put in place the right approach and then, and then build sustainably rather than just going right, I'm going to put an impossible task in the moment, it doesn't go boom, you're out.

[B]

That feels a bit like a fear tactic if people are walking around on eggshells. If I don't deliver this in the unreasonable expectation in an unreasonable amount of time, I'm going to get fired. That doesn't sound like the conditions are quite ripe for long range success. And again, if you go back to what needs to be true, what are the conditions that need to be true for innovation to thrive in a long run that is going to allow companies to thrive? I don't, I wouldn't put fear in that bucket. Nothing happened. Nothing good happens when fear is in the driver's seat. People are not going to perform at their best. The organization is not going to be in thrival mode. It's just going to create that really intense environment where people are just waiting for the shoe to drop. And that takes energy. You want people's energy focused on great work. So as leaders, we have to figure out, how do I make sure the energy field is inviting people to deliver their best work? You're not going to do that if you're afraid of getting fired or afraid of failing.

[A]

100. Well, that's a perfect place to start.

[B]

We now have another story, so we're going to have to push it.

[A]

We're going to go for the third.

[B]

We're going to do it.

[A]

All right. All right. We're going to do it. Okay. We're going to go to the third.

[B]

So I have a really shitty moment.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

So I was at Shiseido for about 15 years when I got an incredible proposition from another company. And I got courted by the CEO of an incredible company with this big, beautiful, sexy offer. And it was really tough because, you know, I grew up in Shiseido. I loved this job. I love this company. I love these people. And there was so much more that I wanted to do. And it was a really tough moment for me where I was actually contemplating leaving for the first time. I had been propositioned before, but I'd never contemplated leaving. I really contemplated leaving. And I thought about it. I thought about it. I thought about it. I walked into my boss's office on Friday morning, and I resigned, and I accepted the job offer, Called the other CEO, accepted the job offer. My boss at the current job went into an absolute panic storm for the rest of the day. It was like meetings with hr. What can we do? How can we counter? You can't leave trying to convince all the things, right? So end of day Friday, I am now schizophrenic. I have no idea. Did I make the right choice? Did I not make the right choice? What the hell am I supposed to do? I never felt so lost. So I was like, listen, it's Friday, end of day. I really appreciate how much work you're putting in to try and get me to stay here. Just give me the weekend to think about it. By Monday morning, we have to be done here. So now I can't sleep this whole weekend, and I am just in a crazy spiral in my mind about what am I doing? What's the right choice? And there is no right or wrong answer, which is really the hardest part. So I called somebody on my personal board of directors and said, I really need advice. And she said one line to me that stopped me in my tracks. And that line was, so far, all I've heard is your head talking. I want to hear from your heart. And my heart said I should stay at the job that I had. So now I'm like, shit. So. So come Sunday night, I'm like, God damn it. She's right. So now, Monday morning, first thing, I call the CEO that I accepted the job offer from to tell him I'm very sorry. Turns out I'm not gonna be taking the job. He is so rip roaring angry that he hangs up on me. Pounds the phone down, hangs up on me, and I'm like, there's a bridge burned. I go back to my office, tell them I'm staying. Life is beautiful. Life moves on. Here's where it gets interesting. About eight months later, there's an announcement that we have a new CEO. And then the new CEO is the guy who hung up on me. Oh, no.

[A]

Awkward.

[B]

Oh, talk about awkward. So now all I'm thinking about is how am I going to handle this?

[A]

And you've not spoken, communicated at all in that word. Last thing that happened was.

[B]

Last thing that happened was he hung up on me on the phone. And because we're in the same industry, I saw him at a couple of events and he turned his back on me on purpose. And this is now my boss. So I thought about it for a while and I said, well, what is the best way to diffuse an emotional situation? Humor. I gotta come up with something funny and something clever that is just gonna break the ice and get us past this moment. So on his first day, we organized a welcome breakfast for him. Comes in the room, you have the table set up with orange juice and all the beautiful things and very happy, excited moment. And the vibes are vi and life is beautiful. And he's walking toward me as he, you know, he's shaking hands, meeting people, and he gets to me and he looks at me and I go, what, are you stalking me now? And that was it.

[A]

That's brilliant.

[B]

It landed.

[A]

Brilliant.

[B]

He started laughing, and I knew that we were. We were past the moment. So, yeah, that's my shitty moment.

[A]

The humor, like, can diffuse almost any situation like that.

[B]

That was really a shitty moment.

[A]

And you also opened the door for him to then, you know, kind of welcome you back, as it were. You know, be open to that. Yeah, I love that story.

[B]

All right, finish your third.

[A]

Okay. Definitely not shitty boss, but shitty moment, I think. And loads of people are going to relate to this because everyone, you know, Covid, everything was a disaster. And so at System One, where I work, we do advertising testing. So we measure the potential effects of advertising, you know, pre testing, post testing, all that kind of thing. Obviously, the one thing that's happening in Covid is people are stopping advertising right, immediately. So our entire business is, is a, is literally. I remember watching the weekly sales go down and down and down and down, kind of in front of us going, where is the bottom going to be? And we've obviously got a lot of staff to pay. And I remember we decided as a team, we'd plotted every scenario and we decided, I think there were seven scenarios. We decided each level what we're going to do. So first everyone took a 20 pay cuts, then we kind of took all benefits out and then, you know, literally went through them. We did cost saving through it. You know, there was a point where half the team were going to go. Interestingly, actually, I worked out I was apparently going to be the last person in the office right at the end because, you know, I could take the orders. I remember the CEO going, you can take the orders. Yeah, we'll leave you last person's name. Which is quite nice to know. But anyway, but it got, it got so tense because literally every single week it was a case of, unless we can sell X, we're going to have to do Y. And it was because at that point, it's down to letting people go, cutting people's salaries. It was just getting devastating. And back to what we saw about constraints before as well. The thing it does is it really makes you focus and think differently. And I remember I was on the phone to somebody who I was doing some free work for. We were going to write a report together, doing some kind of joint report. And I thought to myself, I can't spend any time doing anything that's not going to deliver dollars by the end of this week. And anyway, I was just sharing this problem with him and he said, well, what if I become a customer rather than, you know, do. And I remember saying to him, I told him the amount of money we had to make that week. Yeah, yeah, well, if you become a customer for this amount of money by Friday.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he turned around and said, yes. And he said, right, well, it's our year end, I'll write you a check for this much and we'll order this many things and we'll do these things.

[B]

Okay, where did this fairy brand father come from.

[A]

I know, it's just, I mean, we've been working together for about, I remember maybe six months on this industry report we're going to collaborate on. And I had to tell him that I can't do this thing. And he was really hoping I was going to do it. I said, I'm going to have to pull the plug on this at the last minute because I. I got business to attend to. And it just, it was a real lesson in a way, being open with people, but also, you just don't know where the answer to a shitty situation is going to come.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And just being vulnerable with somebody. And then I had no idea the ability to drop a check for what he did and went on to become one of our biggest customers in the business. And.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah, it's been amazing, but it's just, I mean, so that, that was kind of probably the. The nice shitty moment, because it was a proper shitty moment. But it just struck me as probably one of the toughest positions I've been in because that week, had that not happened, we were going to trigger some quite severe actions on the business. And interestingly, the trajectory from that week went up and up and up and we ended up hitting growth, getting back into growth, and then we ended up having about three or three or four years of 25, 30% growth and done really, really well. But had we done the other route of what we were going to do, we. Without that, we would have probably been half the size as a company and we'd lost momentum and, you know, all that kind of thing. So it's just one of those. You look back and go, there are certain moments where the gap between success and failure is just razor's edge. Thin, isn't it? Wafer thin. And you've just got to take however bad the situation. You've just got to keep on pushing and looking for, Looking for the answer. And then you.

[B]

Yeah. And you know, it's funny because people want to take the path of least resistance. And the reality is the greatest lessons come from the shittiest moments. They have the most to teach you. And I say to people all the time, just go do hard things. That's where the lessons lie. And in those hard things, you learn then how to do great things more often. So I think that's the key lesson, is people should spend time in these shitty moments. There's a lot of lessons to learn. Look at. We just unpacked so much of it in three. I think we're gonna have to make this another episode your favorite.

[A]

You know about distance from the customer. Shitty Moments force you to pick up the phone to every single customer. Go, how can I help? You know, and also be open and honest about what you know, what you're up against as well. I totally agree. I think shitty moments have got a lot to teach us. To teach us. If only we were open to them. So, from Corey Marchisoto, myself, thank you so much for listening and watching Twinsense and Renegades. We genuinely, genuinely hope that you enjoyed this conversation. Now, we do have one little request. We would love it if you could leave us a review. Reviews are so important to other people discovering this show. So wherever you get your podcast from, go and drop us a review. We would really appreciate it. Thank you.