Uncensored CMO Podcast Summary

Title: Live episode: Prof G vs Kory Marchisotto vs Rory Sutherland, a debate on brand, risk & the future of the CMO
Host: Jon Evans
Release Date: June 23, 2025

Introduction and Panelists

In this live episode of Uncensored CMO, host Jon Evans introduces a distinguished panel comprising Scott Galloway, Corey Marchisotto (CMO of ELF), Kay Boss, and Rory Sutherland. The discussion centers around the evolving landscape of branding, risk management in marketing, and the future role of the Chief Marketing Officer (CMO).

The Brand Era: Scott Galloway vs Corey Marchisotto

Scott Galloway opens the debate by challenging the traditional notion of the "brand era." He argues that the effectiveness of traditional brand-building strategies has waned in the digital age. Galloway states:

“Produce a mediocre product and create 30 cents of peanut butter paste into $3 of maternal love... the era's done.”
[00:37]

He emphasizes the shift from brand-centric to product-centric value creation, highlighting that modern digital tools allow consumers to make informed decisions without relying solely on brand shorthand.

In contrast, Corey Marchisotto defends the enduring relevance of brand building. Drawing from his 10-year experience at Hermès, Corey asserts that storytelling and brand investment remain crucial:

“If your brand has a compelling story that can be told in a compelling way... we did it through brand investment.”
[06:28]

Corey illustrates how ELF has achieved remarkable growth by increasing its marketing and digital investment, leading to sustained revenue and market share gains:

“Now we're at 24% of net sales goes into marketing and digital. And we have delivered 25 consecutive quarters of net sales growth...”
[07:34]

Rory Sutherland on Brand Building and R&D

Rory Sutherland offers a nuanced perspective on the state of brand building. He highlights the necessity of courage and innovation in restoring faith in traditional branding:

“It's difficult to know whether the age of brand building is dead or not until we have more people with the courage to try again.”
[08:36]

Rory draws parallels between marketing and other disciplines like R&D and filmmaking, emphasizing the "treasure hunting" aspect of marketing:

“If you want to do great marketing, it's treasure hunting. You're better digging in the right place with a trowel than you are digging up a whole field with an excavator.”
[20:15]

He criticizes the current deterministic and cost-focused mindset in marketing, advocating for a more probabilistic approach that embraces experimentation and innovation.

Risk-Taking in Marketing Organizations

The panel delves into the theme of risk management within marketing departments. Scott Galloway shares his personal approach to risk, linking it to broader economic success:

“Risk is a big fulcrum in terms of understanding the economic success of America relative to Europe.”
[22:29]

He contrasts the American propensity for risk-taking with European caution, attributing America's economic dynamism to its willingness to embrace uncertainty and take bold initiatives.

Corey Marchisotto complements this by emphasizing the importance of aligning risk tolerance with organizational culture:

“If you're working in a conservative organization whose annual goal is to deliver 1 to 2% growth, don't take any risks... high growth companies, they're compelled to take high risk.”
[27:00]

He underscores the necessity for companies to foster cultures that support experimentation and discovery to achieve significant growth.

The Demise and Evolution of the CMO Role

The discussion shifts to the future of the CMO role. Scott Galloway suggests rebranding the title to better reflect the strategic and advisory functions CMOs should embody:

“Change your title... CMO is like second lieutenant of Vietnam and your life expectancy was 18 months.”
[31:03]

He advocates for CMOs to position themselves as Chief Strategy Officers, focusing on high emotional intelligence (EQ), building strong client relationships, and acting as trusted advisors within organizations.

Corey Marchisotto echoes the sentiment by emphasizing impact over title and the power of storytelling in establishing the CMO's value:

“The CMO's biggest problem is they don't know how to advocate for themselves... what story are you telling, what mark are you leaving in every room you enter.”
[36:02]

Rory Sutherland adds to the conversation by highlighting the conflation of marketing with communications and critiquing the traditional agency model for failing to invest in valuable partnerships.

Conclusion

The episode concludes with Jon Evans thanking the panelists and audience, while highlighting the importance of continued dialogue on evolving marketing practices. The debate underscores a pivotal moment in marketing, where traditional branding, strategic risk-taking, and the redefinition of the CMO role converge to shape the future of the discipline.

Key Takeaways:

• Shift in Branding: The traditional brand era is evolving due to digital advancements, requiring a balance between brand storytelling and product quality.
• Importance of Storytelling: Compelling narratives remain central to building and sustaining brand equity.
• Risk Management: Organizations must align their risk tolerance with their growth objectives, fostering cultures that support innovation.
• Evolving CMO Role: CMOs should transition towards strategic advisory roles, emphasizing impact and storytelling over traditional titles.
• Marketing as Treasure Hunting: Embracing a probabilistic approach to marketing can lead to significant breakthroughs and sustained success.

Notable Quotes:

• Scott Galloway: “Produce a mediocre product and create 30 cents of peanut butter paste into $3 of maternal love... the era's done.”
  [00:37]

• Corey Marchisoto: “If your brand has a compelling story that can be told in a compelling way... we did it through brand investment.”
  [06:28]

• Rory Sutherland: “It's difficult to know whether the age of brand building is dead or not until we have more people with the courage to try again.”
  [08:36]

• Scott Galloway: “Change your title... CMO is like second lieutenant of Vietnam and your life expectancy was 18 months.”
  [31:03]

• Corey Marchisoto: “What story are you telling, what mark are you leaving in every room you enter.”
  [36:02]

This comprehensive summary encapsulates the robust discussion among marketing leaders, providing valuable insights into the current state and future trajectory of marketing, branding, and the CMO role.