What is Marketing? Part 2: Marketing is Poetry with Kory Marchisotto [Uncensored Renegades]

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Uncensored CMO – "What is Marketing? Part 2: Marketing is Poetry with Kory Marchisotto"

Host: Jon Evans
Guest: Kory Marchisotto
Date: February 23, 2026
Series: Uncensored Renegades
Main Theme: Reimagining Marketing as Poetry—The Power of Words, Vulnerability, and Pattern Disruption

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Episode Overview

In this insightful and energetic episode, Jon Evans and renowned marketer Kory Marchisotto unpack the provocative idea that "Marketing is Poetry." Kory shares her unique philosophy, connecting the creative, emotional, and strategic sides of marketing through her own history as a poet. Together, they explore how pattern disruption, vulnerability, and ownership are essential for both personal and brand success. A show highlight is Kory’s recital of her heartfelt and epic "Marketing is Poetry" poem, first shared at her induction into the American Marketing Hall of Fame.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining Marketing: "Marketing is Poetry" (00:35–02:52)

• Context: Building on their previous episode’s conclusion that “marketing is everything,” Jon asks Kory for the one word she associates with marketing.
• Kory’s Word: “My word is poetry." (01:02, Kory)
• Why Poetry?
  • Despite being highly data-driven, Kory finds marketing’s essence in poetry’s ability to distill truth, emotion, and storytelling.
• ChatGPT's Four-Part Definition of Poetry (01:16–02:37, Kory):
  1. Philosophical: “Poetry is truth in its most concentrated form.”
  2. Creative: “Poetry is painting with words.”
  3. Spiritual: “Poetry is the soul speaking aloud.”
  4. Functional: “Poetry is language that breaks its own rules to make us feel something.”

"Whether you look at it philosophically, creatively, spiritually, or functionally, marketing is poetry."
— Kory (02:43)

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2. The Origin of Kory’s Love for Poetry & Its Impact on Marketing (03:02–04:29)

• Background: Kory has been writing poetry since childhood, encouraged by her mother, using it to process and express complex emotions.
• Connection to Marketing: She links the poetic tradition of using “meaningful words” to the emotional resonance needed in effective marketing.

“If you use the power of meaningful words… the metrics will follow. So I love writing. It's my soul care.”
— Kory (04:16)

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3. Simplicity, Complexity, and the Divine (04:29–06:41)

• Jon’s Reflection: Known for making the complex appear simple, Jon relates this to poetry’s power to clarify and distill.
• Kory’s Brand Affirmation: From work with Alicia Keys’ Soul Care, “You are layered, complex, and divine.”

“Complex often takes people to a negative. I think the more layered and more complex, the more divine, because now you're getting into deeper levels of meaning that start to unearth truths.”
— Kory (04:56)

• Vulnerability in Career: Kory recounts delivering her acceptance speeches as poems—risking vulnerability for authenticity and memorability.

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4. Pattern Disruption & the Power of Surprise (07:29–09:27)

• Pattern Disruption as a Tool: Both hosts agree that breaking expectations—whether through poetry or unconventional acts—captures attention.
• Notable Study: Jon cites Murray S. Davis (1972): “The secret to something being interesting is it denies a firmly held assumption of the audience.” (08:26)
• Kory: “By any stretch of the definition… that’s how you make deep connections… you are disrupting the pattern.”

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5. Poetry as Expression of Shared Emotion (09:41–10:10)

• Brand Parallels: Poetry articulates emotions audiences struggle to express; successful brands do the same.

“You put into words what people are feeling that they can’t articulate. And that’s the other thing that a brand does, isn’t it?”
— Jon (09:41)

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6. Creativity, Inspiration, and Vulnerability (10:10–13:04)

• Kory shares how her best poetry emerges in vulnerable, unguarded moments—describing her "Marketing Hall of Fame" poem arriving at an ACDC concert.

"Clearly I let everything down at this ACDC concert... my guard came down and the words just started flowing."
— Kory (10:47)

• Creative breakthroughs often come when not forcing inspiration (e.g., "aha moments in the shower").

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7. "Marketing is Poetry" — Kory's Full-Length Poem (13:14–20:18)

• A highlight: Kory performs her poem, weaving her personal journey, brand stories, lessons learned, rejection, resilience, disruption, and possibility into a powerful narrative.
• Quote Excerpts:
  • “By any stretch of the definition, if you really take it down to its fundamental essence, that’s how you make deep connections. That’s also how you compel and captivate—because you’re disrupting the pattern.”
  • “Tis the possibleists that bind the brightest stars that shine. The genesis is you honing your truer view fiercely in the mirror, holding yourself nearer.”

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8. Lessons from the Poem: Opposing Forces, Rejection, and Growth (20:18–23:21)

• Jon’s Reflection: Finds “opposing forces” and growth through rejection compelling.
• Kory on Energy: The importance of channeling negative emotions productively (the 5Ps framework, first P = “pissed”).
• Jon’s Reference: Great by Choice study—success is not about luck, but how you respond to setbacks.

“All success is determined by how you responded to a bad luck event or took advantage of a good luck event—it was the response.”
— Jon (22:24)

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9. Emotional Regulation and Personal Accountability (23:21–27:16)

• Kory: Emotional regulation and fortitude are as critical in business as in sports, yet often overlooked.
• Friction: She advocates running into, not away from, creative/friction-filled environments for breakthrough results.

“If you can teach people how to walk into that [friction], because on the other side of it, you’re actually going to find something way more magical…”
— Kory (24:01)

• Accountability: Success is rooted in personal responsibility, not external factors.

“The person responsible for everything that happens in your life is you, 100%.”
— Kory (25:46)

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10. Curiosity, Innovation, and Embracing the Unknown (27:16–30:38)

• Jon: Recalls the maxim, “Jump and the net will appear.”
• Issey Miyake’s Influence: Kory recalls learning “seek out what you don’t know” from Miyake; success follows consistent curiosity (29:12).
• Expanding Horizons: Purposeful exposure to unfamiliar environments fuels innovation.

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11. The Poem’s Debut, Episode Wrap-Up, and What’s Next (30:38–End)

• Poem’s Debut: This podcast marks the poem’s first appearance beyond the AMA Hall of Fame.
• Jon: Praises its depth and universality; suggests it deserves wider sharing.
• Next Episode Teaser: Innovation will be the next "big question."

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Notable Quotes

• Kory Marchisotto:

  • "You say marketing, I say poetry." (01:02)
  • "If you use the power of meaningful words… the metrics will follow." (04:16)
  • "Pattern disruption can change the entire mood and energy of the room, and it's one of your most powerful assets." (07:50)
  • "I actually believe in the power of friction. And that is a place most people run away from, I run into. Because that is the place where the magic actually happens." (23:21)
  • "The genesis is you." (25:46)

• Jon Evans:

  • “The secret to something being interesting is it denies a firmly held assumption of the audience.” (08:28)
  • “You put into words what people are feeling that they can’t articulate. And that’s the other thing that a brand does, isn’t it?” (09:41)
  • “All success is determined by how you responded to a bad luck event or took advantage of a good luck event—it was the response.” (22:24)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:35–02:52: Kory defines marketing as poetry and explains her choice.
• 03:02–04:29: Kory’s personal history with poetry and connection to marketing.
• 04:29–06:41: Value of complexity, vulnerability, and art in career highlights.
• 07:29–09:27: Pattern disruption, surprise, and audience attention.
• 10:10–13:04: Spontaneity in creativity; ACDC concert inspiration; the role of vulnerability.
• 13:14–20:18: Kory’s “Marketing is Poetry” poem performance.
• 20:18–23:21: Lessons from hardship, rejection, and the mindset of success.
• 23:21–27:16: Emotional regulation and taking ownership of one’s path.
• 27:16–30:38: Innovation, curiosity, and seeking the unknown.
• 30:38–31:33: Poem’s debut, wrap-up, and next episode preview.

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Memorable Moments

• Kory’s Poem Recital: An intimate, powerful performance of “Marketing is Poetry” (13:14–20:18)
• ACDC Concert Anecdote: Kory’s creative breakthrough comes at a rock concert, exemplifying inspiration through vulnerability and mental relaxation (10:47)
• Pattern Disruption Studies: Referencing the role of surprise and breaking expectations in creating memorable brand (and poetic) moments (08:09–09:27)
• Accountability & Mindset: Fierce dialogue on personal responsibility in career and life success (23:21–27:16)

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Tone and Delivery

Engaging, candid, and unfiltered—Jon and Kory blend professional insight with personal storytelling. The tone is energetic yet reflective, mixing lightness (banter, analogies) with depth (poetry, vulnerability, hard-won wisdom).

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Final Thoughts

This episode reframes marketing as not just business practice, but as an art—rooted in language, pattern disruption, vulnerability, friction, and the willingness to embrace the unknown. Kory’s poem is a testament to marketing’s power to inspire, connect, and elevate—reminding listeners that “the genesis is you.”

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Transcript

[A]

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Uncensored Renegades. This is the 20 minute podcast where Cory Marchisotto and myself tackle one big question every week. I hope you enjoy this. Now, if you are enjoying it, I got one request to make. We're putting this out on the current uncensored feed for a limited time only. So if you're enjoying it, go over to Uncensored Renegades, hit subscribe, and never miss an episode. Anyway, without further ado, let's get into it. So, K boss, we're back.

[B]

We're back.

[A]

We're back, baby. All right, so last time we were chatting about what is marketing and what is marketing anyway? Well, I think we conclude it's everything, but the problem is no one else realizes it's everything, so they're too busy doing the cutting, sticking and coloring in. That's basically the issue. We conclude it's everything. But I just wondered, right, what's your word? Right? If you had to pick a word, you were asking everyone else for their word, what was your word?

[B]

So my word is actually the only. Well, I was a lone soldier, Remember I told you we ticked off, like connection and influence and storytelling. These had multiples. My word is poetry.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And probably a surprising word to most, especially those that know me, because I'm a very data driven, financial driven marketer and I use a lot of data and insights in my storytelling. So not many people would associate that with poetry. And for me, it's an instant word association. I don't even have to think about it. You say marketing, I say poetry. And when I think about poetry. So I went to our friend chatgpt just to say, okay, does my definition track? So I want to see what you think. So ChatGPT did a beautiful job of breaking it down into four parts. The first one is the philosophical definition of poetry. Poetry is truth in its most concentrated form.

[A]

Pretty good.

[B]

I think that tracks with marketing. The creative definition is poetry is painting with words.

[A]

That's beautiful, isn't it?

[B]

I think that's marketing. The spiritual definition is poetry is the soul speaking aloud.

[A]

Oh, so nice.

[B]

And then the functional definition is poetry is language that breaks its own rules to make us feel something.

[A]

All so good. My word, like all four on fire, right?

[B]

So my summation is that whether you look at it philosophically, creatively, spiritually, or functionally, marketing is poetry.

[A]

That's amazing. I would never have got there, though. Like, that's, That's. I'm not surprised that didn't come up for anyone else. Like, I. Yeah, where did your love of poetry start then? What was the origin?

[B]

I've been writing poetry since I'm a kid. I'm sure my mother has a collection somewhere that maybe someday I'll put in a substack. The definition of your soul speaks. Speaking aloud is probably how it started for me. So, you know, when you're young and growing up and being exposed to a million things that you don't understand or know how to deal with, some people don't express themselves at all. Some people express themselves through anger or some sort of visible aggression, if you will. My way was to write, and especially to write in rhythm and rhyme. So I started doing that when I was really young, and my mother always encouraged it, and especially in difficult moments, I would find it's the only way I could actually express what I was feeling in a way that can connect, going back to our word connection with people on a more deeply visceral level. And when you think about marketing, it's the power of meaningful words. The metrics follow. If you use the power of meaningful words and translate that into also visual graphics and all the colors, codes, cues, and beautiful things that go along with your narrative, the metrics will follow. So I love writing. It's. It's my sole care.

[A]

It's funny, so feedback I got in my career, and it's a really odd thing to be kind of known for, but a lot of people said to me, you've got an ability to take the complex and make it appear simple. And I say, I didn't even know I did that. But I say, oh, that's interesting. But there's something about the world is complex, isn't it? But actually with poetry, you somehow distill it, and you kind of take the mist, you know, take the kind of mist away, and then suddenly you see something clearly that maybe you haven't seen before.

[B]

So there's a line that you're going to love. That's one of our affirmations. We have a brand called Key Soul Care that we created with Alicia Keys. Talk about a poet. And the affirmation on one of our products is, you are layered, complex, and divine. Complex often takes people to a negative. I think the more layered and the more complex, the more divine, because now you're getting into deeper levels of meaning that start to unearth truths. So the two probably biggest honors that I got in my career, the first one was a CEW Achiever Award. I wrote a poem for that. And it was one of those moments of, like, really digging in deep on what is my ambition? What is my motivation? And what can I give back to others? And I got a lot of signals back from that, which is how memorable it was because nobody else did an acceptance speech. As a poem, it's a very vulnerable act. You are putting almost your art form and your soul out there for people to dissect. Right. So it's a very vulnerable act. And most people don't like to be vulnerable. And so I took those signals. And more recently, I would say my second most honorable moment in my career was being indicted into the hall of fame, the Marketing hall of Fame, from the American Marketing Association. And writing a traditional speech would have been way easier. So I did what I often do,

[A]

which is take the hard road.

[B]

Yeah, take the hard road. Take the path of most resistance and find a way to bring something memorable to the audience. That would be a representation of what marketing means to me through these doors that we just shared. By any stretch of the definition, if you really take it down to its fundamental essence, that's how you make deep connections. That's also how you compel and captivate because you're disrupting the pattern. If everybody's getting up and doing a traditional speech, if you will, and then somebody else comes up and, you know, busts out in a poem, now that's a pattern disruption that gets people to stop and take notice.

[A]

Yeah, I'm just slightly obsessed with this, actually, because I think, like, surprise is like, the key to loads of success. We didn't really deconstruct it as surprise, but doing, like, breaking the pattern. Recognition is what captures attention because your mind suddenly goes, ah, something else going on here that I wasn't expecting.

[B]

Pattern disruption. We could do a whole episode.

[A]

I think we could. Yeah.

[B]

It's such a brilliant tool, especially if you're in an environment where things are getting heated. So imagine you're in a conference room and you're doing a strategy session and people don't agree and things get heated. Pattern disruption can change the entire mood and energy of the room, and it's one of your most powerful assets.

[A]

Yeah, I forget how many people have said this too, so you have to forgive me if I've already said this right, but there's this really old study from 1972, this guy, Murray S. Davis, that analyze what made something interesting. And the conclusion of it is it denies a key assumption of the audience. The key assumption.

[B]

Wait, wait, hold on, hold on. Say that one more time.

[A]

So the. The secret to something being interesting is it denies a firmly held assumption of the audience. The assumption of the audience is your audience is you're going to get up and give a speech. So everyone is, you know, looking for the same thing. They're kind of on autopilot. The moment you play some music, you know, break out the poetry, you're denying their assumption. And that in this study, was what made some art interesting and others are not. And you boil that down to. It's basically surprise. It's why you've put so much effort into doing something that's above and beyond what people expect or different to what they expect is that's what then got people's attention.

[B]

That is a brilliant quote. I love how just randomly you pull these quotes out. It's like you have a file cabinet in your brain of quotes that you can go to. The beauty of this is that's the part that people don't understand. And, you know, said another way, it's breaking with the status quo.

[A]

It is, exactly.

[B]

And when you are looking to break out as a brand, if you do the same thing as everybody else, either you have to do it a thousand times better than they do, or you need to take another path totally and

[A]

back to your poetry as well. The other powerful thing about poetry is you put into words what people are feeling that they can't articulate. And that's the other thing that a brand does, isn't it? Is you stand for something. And then people go, yeah, I've been feeling that, or, yeah, that I'm with them on that sort of thing. And I think that's what poetry does as well, is you go, yeah, that's what I was thinking. Because it's sometimes hard, isn't it? Because, you know, we're complex, emotions are complex. And then, you know, poetry just go, yeah, that's described perfectly what. What I was feeling at that time.

[B]

Yeah. It's not easy to write poetry. It's a. You have to find the place inside of you. And very often times, if you're digging too hard, you're not gonna find it. So you almost have to start the process, and then at some point it's gonna hit you when you don't expect it. And I know this is gonna sound crazy. This poem in particular that I was talking about for the Marketing hall of Fame and hit me like a ton of bricks at the ACDC concert in Las Vegas.

[A]

I love that. Now we're talking. Which song? Which song

[B]

in particular? It was clearly a moment where I had my guard down. I was so stressed out about this. Not so speech. Speech and the writing of this poem that I hadn't done. And time was passing and I knew it was coming. So it was just weighing on me every day that this thing wasn't done. So clearly I let everything down at this ACDC concert. And you're having a great time and there's just so much incredible eye candy and the spirit and the energy and all the. I mean, we could talk about AC DC as a brand. What an extraordinary brand with unbelievable codes and cues and ethos that people live and breathe and walk, talk about, story living. And in that moment, my guard came down and the words just started flowing. And now I'm like, shit, I'm at a concert, you know, standing up, jamming with my two nephews and my husband. And I took up my phone and I start. And my nephews are looking at me. They're like, are you texting? Are you working? I'm like, no, I'm writing a poem.

[A]

Love it.

[B]

So obviously that was a lot of mental. Just outpouring.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then you need to frame it and take the words and put them in something that's gonna be digestible and that's gonna tell a story. That's part of the arc of writing a narrative. But in that moment, I just felt this rush of words that needed to come out of me. So thank you, acdc.

[A]

I was gonna say, well done. But I mean, that does make sense because I think any creative act, it doesn't come when you press a button and go, right, I've got half an hour. Write something inspiring. Right. Does it? It's always when you're. Your brain is switched off to. In. In a different mode. You know, it's a bit like pattern recognition. You need to break the pattern of your, you know, your work to then have. Give room for the inspiration. Then your mind somehow kind of then joins all the dots together when you're in a different state, which is why

[B]

people have aha moments in the shower.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

It's a moment where you're actually vulnerable with yourself.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you're not thinking about anything else. And it's. It is a truism. I actually had the aha moment of Elf and Chipotle needed to do a collaboration in the shower.

[A]

So talking about this poem. Are we gonna hear it?

[B]

Do you wanna hear it?

[A]

I would love to hear it. Yeah.

[B]

So put your seatbelt on.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Buckle up. Relax, relax.

[A]

Get comfortable.

[B]

It's gonna be a few minutes. Marketing is poetry. A craft of fluidity. So, John, are you ready to Flow with me already shaped by the tension of opposites. My very being is a composite, the power of friction between a bull and a unicorn. The ignition of those sparks is where I was born. My father a bull, a realist of no nonsense, his feet on the ground to charge at this life thrust upon us. My mother a unicorn, a halo of fairy dust, her head in the stars in magic she trusts. My feet on the ground, a herd of bull's thunder My head in the stars A parade of unicorns wander prancing in dreams A spirit of abundance bellowing upstreams A force of resistance within those clashing currents A silent sway shimmers weaving the dynamic fabric of my nomadic we are all made up of stars. We collect along our journeys the foundation for exploration, the vibration of creation. The festival of imagination is a constellation in the making. My collection of stars I shine at full wattage the raw energy of a celestial body glowing, reveling in the knowing of its growing. A compilation of stories needs not an interpreter, but rather a marketer, an enchanting storyteller. Come ride through the stars with me on the rocket ship of my career journey. It all begins at Givenchy. My amuse bouche in the beauty industry. A business in the dealings of meanings. Breaking ceilings by appealing to feelings. Far more than any lipstick or lotion in is our devotion to the art of emotion. Jean Paul Gaultier attuned his purity, praying at the altar of anti conformity. And why not? The infant terrible proclaims. There is nothing tame in the fire of his flame. Issey Miyake, an innovator's innovator, taught me to seek that which I do not know. For infinite curiosity is the pathway to audacity. Narciso Rodriguez quoted Mies van der Rohe. Less is more is what he had to say. I follow his rigor to this very day. Orange blood in my veins from Hermes. What reigns whimsical storytelling with a poetic aesthetic Encounters, explorations and celebrations of sensations is how you capture hearts for seven generations. Digital domination Falling words like a flurry not synonymous with luxury. Unless you work at Burberry, don't miss a beat on the Runway replete. Harness the power of technology, embedding it as an ideology, scaling one to one relationships. Leslie Blodgett created bare minerals founded on the very principles of community signals. It is she who emblazoned the encyclopedia as the OG Viru Social media. Now six years in, I can say for myself there really is no place like ELF is E L F anything if not the acronym of everything. Endless lines flow as we bestow what we know. Equality, liberty, freedom hath no spaces between them. Our legacy prevails by empowering legendary females. Now some call me the wizard of Elf or the Chief Mother Elfyr. As a bold disruptor with a kind heart, I alone play but a small part in the rhythm of the art we impart. Expanding limits fearlessly is the perspective of our renegade collective that inspires the imperative to make this world a better place for every eye, lip and face. Now please make no mistake While I speak in stories and stars it's really elfing hard, this creation of a constellation. No star is waiting from afar for the doubters and the naysayers, the stars gleamer for the believer and the dreamer, the magic making bar raising relentlessly restless rule breaking. Tis the possibleists that bind the brightest stars that shine. The genesis is you honing your truer view fiercely in the mirror, holding yourself nearer. How bad do you want it really? And will you pay for it sincerely? How many hours is it worth on your phone? How many nights away from home? How many airplanes will you roam? How many cities will you comb alone? How many rejections can you ache? How many smiles can you fake? How many trees will you shake and how many what's up, app groups can you take? How many knocks will you take at your crown? How many times can you fall down and rise again in the burn and the churn? Unlearning to learn, Twisting to conform, hiding to perform Breaking the shaking to unlock the shock and unearth the rebirth? Do you have conviction in this contradiction that we are living in? Or is it simply too much or is it not enough? All this fuss, does it make you blush or is it a rush? The words we write, the blurbs we recite Distilling it tight till it fits just right Our fame to claim is what we're living, what we're giving, who we're being and what we're scheming Optimizers, maximizers, fortune tellers, sales propellers Our haste traced in zero waste I live for the opposing forces, Their sources and discourses mostly Would quickly toss what I use for polish and gloss A fighter, a uniter, an unwavering unsubscriber Isn't it remarkable? That sparkle that ignites your lights, your constellation is a golden flag Fleece your own magnificent masterpiece. And now my final advice to entice your next roll of the dice toward the horizon runneth and when the tornado cometh, grab your surfboard and ride it. For anyone in marketing, I salute you and the very making of your constellation.

[A]

Wow. That is epic. Absolutely epic. Well done. That's beautiful. Absolutely beautiful. And deep and true as well. Yeah. So much in that.

[B]

So much is in that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Tell me your. The. Well, what beauty of anything is, especially in any form of art, is the interpretation of the receiver.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. I put. I wrote a lot down actually. I think the. The things that hit me were in no particular order, like the opposing forces. I don't know, we think in kind of linear terms that, like, you know, we just go in this direction. But actually the different forces that kind of collide, that shape kind of where we're going, I think I thought that was really interesting. And the rejection, the, the. The sort of. I mean, so much of what propels us forward is actually born in the difficulty. And we don't give that enough credit, do we? Or the respect it's due. We tend to sort of either gloss over it or let it, you know, get to us. But I just, I mean, so much. I mean, I think way more for me personally have I achieved has been through difficulty, not through success. You know, that's the thing that's like propelled you and, you know, made you learn or made you think differently, that kind of thing.

[B]

Or ignites your fire.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Gives you the. Well, we'll one day Talk about the 5p's, but the first p in the 5p framework is pissed. And if something pisses you off, either you can just sit in your anger and aggression and that's gonna take you absolutely nowhere, or it's gonna take you to the bottom of the rabbit hole, or you can learn how to channel that energy into something good, better, brighter, on the road ahead.

[A]

Totally, absolutely. I mean, even bring it back to theory for just a moment before going back into the emotion of this. But I think it was. What was the study from Great by Choice. I think they. They looked at. I think I'm right in saying. Looked at the most successful 20 companies in the US over 20 years. Something like that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And the hypothesis was, are they just lucky? So somebody actually went and looked at good luck events versus bad luck events. Right. And categorize them for the most successful and the least successful companies. Turns out luck happens to everyone, both good and bad in equal measure. There was no difference. Right. Again, you could have worked that out. Right. But they ruled out that luck. What they concluded is it entirely came down to the response to either good or bad luck. All success is determined by how you responded to a bad luck event or took advantage of A good luck. Eventually it was the response. And this is what, what you said that struck me is like you can allow circumstances to break you, get you down, tell you that you're not good enough and you can, you know, it can destroy you, right? Or you can choose. And it is a choice. It is a choice to go. This is not going to be the end. This is going to be beginning and I'm going to learn from this. I'm going to turn it around. So I'm going to, you know, do what I was always.

[B]

Which takes a lot of mental fortitude, it takes a lot of emotional regulation. And I think this is the stuff that people don't spend enough time on. And when you think about people who train for sports, they understand the power of mental fortitude. That is part of the training, it is part of the journey. This is not just physical, it's also mental. I don't know why we don't train that enough in business. Because emotional regulation is so key. No matter what situation you're in, you're automatic switch is going to be fight or flight. Either I'm going to sit here and I'm going to fight and this thing's going to escalate or I'm going to run. Well, what if you did neither? What if you took a deep breath, calm the room down, did something like pattern disruption and got everybody to a place where you could actually walk through the friction to get to higher ground? And I love what you said about the opposing forces, because I actually believe in the power of friction. And that is a place most people run away from, I run into. Because that is the place where the magic actually happens. You want magic to happen, you have to be in a zone of friction. It has to be high intensity. It cannot be rainbows and butterflies. So there is a tendency for people to walk away from that, to feel that tension and like. Like an electroshock. No, I can't go back there. I can't touch that again. But if you can teach people how to walk into that, because on the other side of it, you're actually going to find something way more magical than you ever imagined, then they become more attuned to being able to walk through that space.

[A]

Yeah, totally. And is it, you know, you reference a lot of hard things and naysayers as well, is something I picked up on and I think you described the proper possibilist. Possibleists. Sorry, Possible. The possibilities, love, because it's, it's the old phrase, whether you think you can or you can't you're right. Exactly. And, and I think that mindset, when you said the genesis is you, that's so spot on because it's, it's so easy, isn't it, to kind of go to, well, basically to blame, right? Oh, it didn't work out because this circumstance or that personal, this, this, this, you know, this scenario. But pretty much everything is down to

[B]

you, all of it. 100%. People don't like to hear that. So you and I are going to maybe be a little bit controversial in this episode, because everybody thinks the person who's responsible for their promotion and their raise and their career is their boss. The person responsible for everything that happens in your life is you, 100%. And that if you can take that ownership and accountability on yourself, which includes how you speak to yourself, what you pour into yourself, if you are speaking negatively to yourself, people will speak negatively to you. That's an invitation. So if you pour into yourself possibilities, positive energy, optimism, confidence, then that's how you're going to show up in the world, and then that's the energy you're going to get back. And when you think about how many times, and I'm sure you've heard this a million times in your career, you know, my boss won't give me a promotion. My boss won't give me a raise. Well, let's unpack that for a second, Sit down, look in the mirror, tell, explain to me why it is that you deserve a raise. Have you stepped into the position? Are you acting in the frame of the position that you want? And when you start to dissect that and people start to take their own personal accountability, then they can actually accelerate way faster on the path that they want.

[A]

Yeah, completely agree. Completely. I mean, the other thing I've noticed as well is that you don't have to have all the answers as well, because it, because I think, you know, success follows when you back to the magic thing. In a way, we like to have it all mapped out, don't we? We like to think this leads to, that leads to the following sort of thing, but actually you discover it as you go. I mean, sorry, quite another phrase. But the jump in the net will appear type thing.

[B]

The jump in the net will appear.

[A]

Have you heard that one?

[B]

No, tell me.

[A]

It's like jump in the net will appear sort of thing. But because we're so full of our reasons why something's not gonna work right, we're full of like, oh, this could go wrong, that could go wrong, and you have to jump. Not knowing all the answers.

[B]

Okay, hold on. Tie it. Jump and the net will appear.

[A]

Jump and the net will appear. Yes.

[B]

Okay. I thought you said jump in the net with a pear.

[A]

Jump in the net with. This isn't. This could be amazing, the power of pairs.

[B]

Right?

[A]

I mean, this is a new thing.

[B]

I literally saw it. I'm like, jump in the net with a pear. I'm like, what? Okay. Jump and the net will appear. I got where you're going now. Okay.

[A]

Yeah. Yes. It's just this thing around naysayers, right? Because worrying about what other people are gonna think is, I think, one of the most limiting things that happen, because we sit there and we're more worried about what people think than whether or not we're gonna be successful. And you will. You will not be successful if we're worried about is what people think. You know, the other thing that struck me, and you have to remind me who said this, but seek out what you don't know.

[B]

Issey Miyake.

[A]

Yeah. That's good. Because I. If I. If I were to collect the one trait that I think I see in every successful cmo, it's probably that constant curiosity about the customer, about the business, about culture, and. And, you know, it doesn't matter how much you know. You just have this constant striving to kind of find out what you don't know. And I think it's something very interesting,

[B]

and that includes really dissecting where and how you spend your time. Who are you in a zoom room with? Who are you around in the evenings? What are you doing on the weekends? If you are spending your time more often than not with things that are foreign to you, you're going to be able to expand your horizons and increase your wingspan every time. So that simple line. And Issey Miyake was an exceptional innovator's innovator. He also created something called the 2121 Design Studio in Tokyo. And the idea of that is 2020 is perfect vision. And your role as an innovator and a visionary is to see beyond that. And that's why he created 2121. And that philosophy of spending your time consciously in the things you don't know is also something people run away from. Right. We fall in the pattern of the familiar, which is why things start to become a pattern, and then you have to break the pattern to step into the things you don't know. So that was an exceptional lesson, and it's really important that you don't just say the words Right. I'm curious. Well, what does that mean? Show me your curiosity in action.

[A]

Now, where has your poem appeared? Is it a LinkedIn post?

[B]

It hasn't.

[A]

Has it been printed? Where's it gonna appear?

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

Is this the debut of the poem?

[B]

This is not the. I mean, I did deliver the poem at.

[A]

This is your AMA hall of Fame.

[B]

Yes, I did deliver the poem that evening as my not so Speech Speech. And that's it. That's. This is the debut to the outside world.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

And then we'll figure out where it goes from there.

[A]

It's amazing. It deserves to live everywhere. It's incredible and very inspiring and, like, what a way to talk about what we do as well. And the depth and nuances and contradictions and life lessons all wrapped in as well. It's amazing. We've massively failed to stick to our 15 minutes, by the way.

[B]

That's another beautiful failure. And we're going to keep trying.

[A]

We're going to keep trying.

[B]

We're going to make progress with a capital P, not a lowercase P next time.

[A]

But I do have an idea for our next episode. You just talked about innovation. Let's talk about innovation next time. Wouldn't that be amazing? So, from Corey Marchesoto, myself, thank you so much for listening and watching to Unsense and Renegades. We do genuinely, genuinely hope that you enjoyed this conversation. Now, we do have one little request. We would love it if you could leave us a review. Reviews are so important to other people discovering this show. So wherever you get your podcast from, go and drop us a review. We would really appreciate it. Thank you.