Podcast Summary: Why Marketers Don’t Make the Boardroom

Podcast: Uncensored CMO
Host: Jon Evans
Guest: Thomas Barta
Date: February 18, 2026

Overview

In this energized and candid episode of Uncensored CMO, host Jon Evans delves into the persistent challenge of why marketers rarely make it to the boardroom with leadership expert and author Thomas Barta. Drawing on his extensive research—including over 68,000 leadership assessments—and practical boardroom experience, Barta shares actionable insights for marketers aiming to gain influence at the highest levels of business. The discussion surfaces the perennial tension between marketing’s creative ambitions and corporate reality, offering a blueprint for marketers to step up as genuine business leaders.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Journey to Board-Level Marketing

• Thomas Barta’s Background

  • Developed a fascination for advertising at age six ([00:46]).
  • Rose to European Marketing Director at Kimberly Clark before moving to McKinsey, helping CEOs understand marketing’s power.
  • Motivated to help marketers when he saw even skilled CMOs struggle to connect in management teams ([00:46]).

• Shocking Reality in the Boardroom

  • Marketing is often relegated to the final agenda item, with little focus from boards ([01:52]).
  • “The conversations around running a business are very different to the conversations you may have had before in your marketing team.” — Jon Evans ([02:11]).

2. What CEOs Want & Why Marketers Miss the Mark

• The CEO’s Simple Expectation

  • “Grow the business profitably, full stop.” — Thomas Barta ([03:58])
  • Despite clear expectations, Fortune 500 companies showed minimal growth (0.1% to 1.8% recently) ([03:58]).

• Why Marketers Aren’t Cutting Through

  • Few marketers present on boards; the numbers are “really shocking” ([04:39]).
  • Marketers focus too heavily on customer needs, neglecting alignment with overall company goals ([05:17]).

• The Value Creation Zone

  • The most powerful marketers operate in the “V Zone” where customer and company needs intersect ([05:17]).
  • “If you're in the V zone, they won’t cut your budgets because you're seen as relevant.” — Thomas Barta ([06:51]).

3. Language Matters: Speaking the Boardroom’s Dialect

• Communicating Growth, Not Jargon

  • Board discussions are not about segmentation and programmatics—they care about growth, revenue, customers ([08:48]).
  • “Sit down with the CFO and do it jointly. Just imagine—the CFO would present; your numbers standing would change.” — Thomas Barta ([09:35]).

• Cultivating CFO Relationships

  • Embedding the finance team in marketing conversations is critical.
  • “If your CFO is explaining why you should invest in marketing, you’ve done the job.” — Jon Evans ([10:31]).
  • “The CEO and CFO need to see that marketing is part of the same team... sometimes you gotta take one for the team.” — Thomas Barta ([11:30])

4. Role Clarity and the Downside of Title Inflation

• CMOs and Job Titles
  • Too much noise, too many new titles (“Chief Growth Officer,” etc.) signal underlying confusion ([14:43]).
  • “If marketing had a CMO, you’d almost need to replace that person...” — Thomas Barta ([15:43]).
  • The focus must return to the core purpose: driving growth ([16:38]).

5. Leadership: Upwards, Sideways, and with Courage

• The 12 Powers of a Market Leader

  • Success comes from understanding both the company and customer—spending as much time leading “upwards” as leading teams ([19:17]).
  • Marketers must also “mobilize sideways” across the organization—building coalitions, walking the halls, and being visible where decisions happen ([20:36]).

• Three Distinct Powers for Influence

  1. Have a compelling change story—“What’s the big idea that you want people to dream with you?” ([19:47])
  2. Mobilize—be present where decisions are made.
  3. Demonstrate seriousness—get hands-on in stores, with products, with people ([20:49]).

6. The Paradox of Fitting In: Safe is Risky

• Fitting In vs. Standing Out

  • “Fitting in is the safest way to fail.” — Jon Evans, quoting Thomas Barta ([21:08])
  • Research: “Companies are not made for growth... the resistance has won when HR is adding another box to make sure everyone fits.” — Thomas Barta ([22:00])
  • Four types of leaders identified: Flowkeepers, Implementers, Dreamers, Growth Rebels ([25:06]).
  • The goal: Be a Growth Rebel—combine big ideas with organizational mobilization.

• Courage as a Success Multiplier

  • 60% of growth comes down to bravery.
  • “Standing out is also a little negative... nobody wants to work with a smart ass. You want to work with people who take you along.” — Thomas Barta ([25:27])

7. Bravery Formula and Practical Steps

• “Bravery = Purpose – Fear”
  • Having a big enough reason (“purpose”) reduces the impact of fear ([28:18]).
  • “If you really believe in something, fear will play a smaller role.” — Thomas Barta ([29:09])
  • Progress comes from a series of small brave acts, not one grand gesture ([30:40]).

8. The Realities of CMO Life: “Confessions” and Coping

• Honest CMO Confessions

  • “You're hired for your vision, but then questioned for your execution.” ([31:09])
  • “Sometimes my job feels 10% strategy and 90% justifying the 10%.” ([34:10])
  • “I was labeled difficult because I wouldn’t conform. That’s why I was hired in the first place…” ([34:27])
  • Barta: If you spend 90% of your time justifying, you haven’t connected well enough ([34:18]).
  • Comfort today often leads to discomfort tomorrow; lean into discomfort now for future comfort ([29:46]).

• Setting & Managing Expectations

  • “Satisfaction is the difference between expectation and reality. You can over deliver or set expectations—and both will create satisfaction.” — Thomas Barta ([36:19])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Boardroom Language:
  “Nobody cares about segmentation and programmatic… The question is: Are you able to connect?”
  — Thomas Barta ([08:48])

• On Marketer’s Role:
  “There’s only two choices. You’re either cost or you’re revenue. People don’t put you in between.”
  — Thomas Barta ([07:56])

• On Leadership Courage:
  “Fitting in is negative for growth. Standing out is also a little negative…The rebel challenge is you gotta find a big idea, and you need to bring the organization along. That’s the bravery that will create growth.”
  — Thomas Barta ([25:27])

• On Setting the Stage for Success:
  “Connect what you’re doing with the company mission, position it in the language of the boardroom and the CFO, and then get other people to tell the story and kind of share the vision with you…”
  — Jon Evans ([12:36])

• On Purpose and Fear:
  “Bravery is purpose minus fear.”
  — Thomas Barta ([28:18])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Barta's Marketing Origin Story: [00:46]
• Marketing's Place in the Boardroom: [01:52]–[02:32]
• What CEOs Expect from Marketing: [03:58]
• Why Marketers Are Absent in Boardrooms: [04:39]–[05:17]
• The Critical 'V Zone': [05:17]–[06:51]
• Language Shift—Boardroom Communication: [08:48]–[10:01]
• Building Relations with CFOs: [10:01]–[12:36]
• Job Titles and the CMO Identity Crisis: [14:43]–[17:26]
• The 12 Powers/Value Creation Zone: [19:17]–[21:08]
• Fitting in vs. Standing Out: [21:08]–[26:00]
• Formulas: Bravery and Satisfaction: [28:18], [36:19]
• CMO Confessions and Boardroom Realities: [31:09]–[36:31]

Conclusion

This episode is an absolute masterclass for marketers aspiring for greater business influence. Thomas Barta pulls no punches: true marketing leadership means aligning passionately with company strategy, speaking the boardroom’s language, challenging the status quo, and cultivating courage to push big ideas. Marketers must become as fluent in growth and organizational mobilization as they are in consumer insight and creativity. “Fitting in is the safest way to fail.” Instead, become a Growth Rebel—be brave, purpose-driven, and collaborative.

For more on Thomas Barta’s research, check out his book The 12 Powers of a Market Leader. A new edition is on the way, promising expanded insights on AI, leadership, and the future of marketing.