Unchained Podcast Ep. 927 Summary

Title: Aptos Is Betting Big on Transparency After Crypto’s Black Friday, Says CEO
Host: Laura Shin
Guest: Avery Chang, CEO of Aptos
Date: October 18, 2025

Overview

This episode features Laura Shin in conversation with Avery Chang, CEO of Aptos, a Layer 1 blockchain project. Recorded at the Aptos Experience event in New York City, the discussion centers on Aptos’ evolution, its vision for a transparent and decentralized trading infrastructure, newly launched and upcoming products, and the industry’s response to the recent “Crypto Black Friday” trading debacle. Avery emphasizes Aptos’s bets on trading transparency, decentralized infrastructure, performance, and partnerships across stablecoins and global enterprises.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Aptos Origins and Mission

[00:38 - 03:03]

• Aptos emerged from the Libra/Diem project at Meta (Facebook) with ambitions to build scalable, decentralized payments for billions.
• Lessons learned: “Being early is the same as being wrong. We were definitely too early for the space, and both the country and also the world wasn’t ready for that kind of a vision and product.” — Avery Chang [01:30]
• Subsequent independent fundraising fueled focus on “building the decentralized Internet for everyone,” with a new emphasis on fairness, democratization, and a “global trading engine.”

2. Positioning in the L1 Ecosystem

[03:03 - 04:16]

• Aptos distinguishes itself not as a generic blockchain, but with targeted “global trading engine” and decentralized cloud initiatives.
• Key partnerships have led to projects like Decibel (decentralized exchange) and Shelby (decentralized cloud storage).

3. The Future User Experience on Aptos

[04:16 - 06:08]

• Vision: Instant, automated crypto payments, AI-driven investments, seamless DeFi access, and on-chain financial ecosystems for everyday users.
• “My ideal state of the world is one in which the economy is having unchained... our entire economy, from the way we get paid to the way we borrow, the spend as well as invest is all happening on decentralized infrastructure that is fair and accessible to all.” — Avery Chang [04:56]

4. Avery Chang’s Journey

[06:08 - 08:02]

• Background in data infrastructure at Meta, moving into crypto via Libra/Diem.
• Pivoted to founding Aptos after Libra/Diem faced insurmountable regulatory challenges.

5. Leadership Shift and Strategic Reorientation

[08:02 - 10:10]

• Avery assumed CEO role after Moshe’s departure.
• Shift from just building infrastructure to prioritizing product use cases, especially decentralized trading and cloud.
• Recognized massive potential for transparent on-chain trading and decentralized cloud as a “$300 billion a year, growing 30% year over year” industry.

6. Shelby: Decentralized, High-Performance Storage

[10:10 - 12:22]

• Shelby enables real-time decentralized storage—vital for AI training, creator-generated content, and enterprise/cloud needs.
• “It’s the first decentralized real-time storage that can support almost anything you want to do out there... a perfect fit for AI.” — Avery Chang [10:23]

7. Watchy: Decentralized Media OS

[12:22 - 14:39]

• Collaboration with NBCUniversal to create a decentralized, content-centric platform on Aptos, powered by Shelby.
• Unifies identity, payments, and loyalty across NBCU’s diverse properties.
• Watchy offers content primitives: rights, encryption, sharing rules for cross-platform media.

8. Vision for Watchy and the Broader Decentralized Internet

[14:39 - 16:11]

• Moving beyond speculation to rearchitecture of the internet for low-latency, high-speed transactions and content access, driven by “namespaces”:
  • “Within those namespaces you will get 10 milliseconds of latency... and across namespaces you’ll get 50 milliseconds, which is fascinating blockchain out there.” — Avery Chang [15:27]
  • Envisions agent-driven economic activity: trading, bill payments, and AI-enabled automation.

9. Decibel: Fully Decentralized Full-Stack Exchange

[16:11 - 17:59]

• Designed to merge the performance of centralized exchanges with blockchain transparency, fairness, and composability.
• “It is the first fully decentralized full stack, spot and perps exchange that brings you the performance of centralized exchanges, but yet with the fairness, democratization and composability of blockchains.” — Avery Chang [16:43]

10. Response to “Crypto Black Friday” and the Importance of Transparency

[17:59 - 21:58]

• Black Friday: recent market incident revealing the lack of transparency in centralized and “pseudo-decentralized” exchanges.
• On-chain trading via Decibel would have enabled everyone to see and understand all market activity in real time.
• “If it was on chain, if the rules are well defined, people will be able to see exactly what happened... everything would be much, much better understood.” — Avery Chang [18:20]

11. What Fully On-Chain Decentralization Means

[20:30 - 21:58]

• Most current “decentralized” exchanges rely on centralized order-matching or hidden components.
• Decibel: Entire order flow—from submission to matching and results—is on-chain, open-source, and auditable, enabled by Aptos’s Move language.
• “...the results of [the order-matching] will be published on chain. And that’s really hard to do.” — Avery Chang [20:51]

12. Competitive Landscape in Decentralized Trading

[21:58 - 24:11]

• Other “decentralized” exchanges (Aster, Lighter, Hyperliquid) still hide centralized components or lack open-source transparency.
• Decibel’s differentiation: Full decentralization and centralized exchange-grade speed.
• “As far as we know, Decibel is the only one in this space which is kind of playing in the fully decentralized, but yet able to match the performance of centralized exchanges out there.” — Avery Chang [23:07]

13. Stablecoin Strategy and Partnerships

[24:11 - 28:47]

• Aptos hosts a variety of stablecoins (USDT, USDC, PYUSD, USD1) for distinct use cases and geographies.
• Partnership rationale: “...having met the World Libby team over and over again... their mission is really how do they bring crypto to America and to the masses...” — Avery Chang [25:14]
• Easy value proposition: Any stablecoin on Aptos gets “the fastest, most performant and cheapest version... across the world.” — Avery Chang [28:04]

14. Major Global Partnerships: Asia and Beyond

[28:47 - 32:01]

• Reliance Jio (India): Launching Geocoin for Jio’s 500 million users.
• Lotte (South Korea): Stablecoin payments and loyalty for retail and hospitality.
• General Asian expansion: Partnerships with large enterprises, supporting local regulatory climates, and blockchain adoption for real-world use cases.

15. Geography of Crypto Innovation

[32:01 - 32:59]

• US regulation clarifying, capital markets coming in, and New York now “the number one city for crypto in America.” — Avery Chang [32:58]

16. DeFi Culture and Collaboration

[32:59 - 34:37]

• Aptos was the first non-EVM chain to launch AAVE, focusing on mutual dedication to enterprise-grade security and user safety.
• “We care a lot about user funds. We want to make sure that the blockchain itself is extremely secure. It’s why we built Move.” — Avery Chang [33:58]

17. Multi-Token Ecosystem Philosophy

[34:37 - 36:10]

• Not a conscious multi-token strategy; Aptos (APT) remains the base layer, with ecosystem/project-specific tokens layered above.
• “A blockchain is very similar [to the US economy]: you want to have a very strong base, that’s Aptos, but also many strong industries built on top of it.” — Avery Chang [35:48]

18. Preventing Future Black Fridays: On-Chain Risk Management

[36:10 - 39:04]

• Building for complete on-chain risk visibility and management.
• “...a lot of that risk is very transparent... the best we can do is to really build for the future in which a lot of that risk is very transparent.” — Avery Chang [36:44]

19. The Industry’s Takeaways from Black Friday

[39:04 - 41:10]

• Lack of transparent data breeds conspiracy and harms trust.
• Regulation offers circuit breakers (pauses), but decentralized ecosystems must rely on transparency and clear, open rulesets.
• Working on regulatory advocacy to build responsible consumer protections.

20. Closing Vision: Real Value and Utility in Crypto

[41:24 - 42:19]

• Aptos’s goal is a safer, fairer internet—more utility and productivity for users, greater creator and user control over data, and a move away from speculation toward real-world value.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Being early is the same as being wrong. We were definitely too early for the space..."
  – Avery Chang [01:30]

• "My ideal state of the world is one in which the economy is having unchained..."
  – Avery Chang [04:56]

• "It is the first fully decentralized full stack, spot and perps exchange that brings you the performance of centralized exchanges, but yet with the fairness, democratization and composability of blockchains."
  – Avery Chang [16:43]

• "If it was on chain, if the rules are well defined, people will be able to see exactly what happened... everything would be much, much better understood."
  – Avery Chang [18:20]

• "As far as we know, Decibel is the only one in this space which is kind of playing in the fully decentralized, but yet able to match the performance of centralized exchanges out there."
  – Avery Chang [23:07]

• "A blockchain is very similar [to the US economy]: you want to have a very strong base, that’s Aptos, but also many strong industries built on top of it."
  – Avery Chang [35:48]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Aptos background & vision: [00:38–03:03]
• Distinguishing Aptos among L1s: [03:03–04:16]
• What Aptos success would look like in society: [04:16–06:08]
• Avery Chang’s career arc: [06:08–08:02]
• Strategic shift under Avery as CEO: [08:02–10:10]
• Shelby high-performance storage: [10:10–12:22]
• Watchy media OS & NBCU partnership: [12:22–14:39]
• Decibel’s decentralized exchange breakthrough: [16:11–17:59]
• Reflections on Crypto Black Friday: [17:59–21:58; 36:10–39:04]
• On-chain vs. “decentralized” trading realities: [20:30–21:58]
• Stablecoin partnership rationale: [24:11–28:47]
• Asia partnerships (Jio, Lotte): [28:47–32:01]
• Aptos & AAVE's partnership: [32:59–34:37]
• Approach to multi-token ecosystem: [34:37–36:10]
• Industry lessons and regulatory perspective: [39:04–41:10]
• Closing vision: [41:24–42:19]

Conclusion

Avery Chang and Laura Shin’s conversation reveals Aptos’s dual focus as both an infrastructure innovator and a product-centric blockchain, with an unflinching commitment to transparency after the industry’s latest failures. Expect Aptos to become increasingly visible through alliances with major enterprise players, aggressive product development like Decibel and Shelby, and a persistent drive to make on-chain trading as fast, fair, and accessible as the web itself.