Binance Listing Fee Fight: What's a Fair Price to List on the Top Crypto Exchange? - Ep. 925

Summary

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Unchained Episode 925 Summary

Podcast: Unchained
Host: Laura Shin
Episode: "Binance Listing Fee Fight: What's a Fair Price to List on the Top Crypto Exchange?"
Date: October 17, 2025

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Overview

In this episode, Laura Shin unpacks the recent controversy around Binance's token listing fees with guests CJ Hetherington, CEO and co-founder at Limitless Labs, and Nick Tomato, founder and general partner at OneConfirmation. The discussion centers on CJ's viral tweet revealing Binance’s confidential token listing fee proposal, the implications for builders and retail investors, and the broader conversation about token distribution, transparency, and the shifting dynamics between centralized and decentralized crypto ecosystems.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Binance Listing Fee Revelation

[00:49–02:14]

• CJ Hetherington publicly disclosed the terms Binance offered for listing Limitless’s token, which included:
  • 1% of tokens for an immediate airdrop (“Alpha listing”)
  • 3% for additional airdrops over 6 months
  • 1% for Binance’s marketing efforts (with full Binance discretion)
  • $250,000 security deposit
  • 3% for the BNB Holder program (where BNB holders get airdrops)
  • $200,000 of token value for affiliate marketers
  • $2 million BNB security deposit for spot listing
• Laura Shin highlights the significance and rarity of making such terms public, noting “It takes courage to reveal the terms that the world’s largest crypto exchange is offering you, since these deals are obviously meant to be confidential.” [01:42]

Notable Quote:

“How on earth does 8% of the entire network make sense if we’re talking about the next three, five, or even 10 years...but this cohort...they think about day one listing and dumping on day one. That changes the entire calculus.” — CJ Hetherington [03:16]

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2. Transparency vs. Consequences

[02:25–05:02]

• CJ’s rationale: No NDA was in place, so he felt it was important to bring truth and transparency into a space often clouded by backchannel deals.
• Fear of reprisals: Both guests discuss the risks, with Nick emphasizing that most founders are “afraid to tell the truth…you don’t want to piss [Binance] off.” [05:02]
• Nick praises CJ: “In real life, this dude’s a boxer…he’s just being himself…I just love to see that.”

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3. Reaction from Industry and Community

[07:06–09:41]

• Viral Impact: CJ describes underestimating the tweet’s reach but wanting to compare policies of different ecosystems for other builders.
• Community Support: He notes that, contrary to dire predictions, more teams and institutions have begun reaching out with partnership interests since the tweet.
  • “More people are reaching out than ever.” — CJ Hetherington [13:04]
• Not “orchestrated”: Both CJ and Nick deny the tweet was a calculated move aligned with others like Jesse Pollock’s anti-centralized exchange rhetoric.

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4. Macro Trends: The Shift On-chain

[11:35–13:04]

• Decentralized wave: Both guests agree this backlash represents a macro trend toward on-chain solutions and away from centralized exchanges (CEXs).
• Nick references Hal Finney:

  “The computer can be used as a tool to liberate and protect people rather than control them. That’s why I’m still in this space.” [11:35]

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5. Token Listings: Short-term Greed vs Long-Term Vision

[15:47–18:36]

• VCs and Founders: Nick emphasizes supporting founders who want to innovate, not those just chasing listings for a quick payday.
• Retail extraction:
  • “If you pay 8% of a token supply for listing, that’s not sustainable for most networks…hardworking people are just the exit liquidity.” — CJ Hetherington [18:36]
• CJ asserts most tokenomics sheets don’t reflect reality, as backroom deals carve out significant portions for listing teams and market makers.

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6. Is Binance’s Offer Fair? The Devil’s Advocate

[20:34–22:27]

• Laura plays devil’s advocate: Is the 8% fee justified by the reach and distribution Binance offers?
• CJ counters: It’s only “beneficial to them if they’re dumping on day one, but not if they want to build a long term, sustainable token network.” [22:07]
• Nick references data: Tokens launched via Binance often underperform for users but benefit Binance and dumping teams.

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7. Binance’s Public Response and Social Media Fallout

[23:40–28:44]

• CZ’s reaction:
  • Calls CJ a “loser,” accuses him of “clout chasing.” [24:16]
  • CJ responds, “CZ, you got played.”
• Legal threats: Binance tweets CJ’s disclosures were “false and defamatory,” then claims they were “illegal and unauthorized”—then deletes tweet, raising more questions about their consistency [24:28].
• Transparency in numbers:
  • Nick: “Let’s get some more transparency…on-chain, you can see the actual numbers…with Binance, inflows and outflows are opaque.” [25:39–28:44]

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8. On-Chain Liquidations and Data Discrepancies

[29:52–30:42]

• HyperLiquid DEX data: Full on-chain reporting revealed more about the true extent of liquidations, implying CEXs underreport their liquidations.
• CJ points out: This is another example where DeFi’s transparency outpaces centralized rivals.

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9. Are You Worried About Retaliation from Binance?

[30:42–33:48]

• CJ: Sees greater benefit in open, constructive feedback than tribal fighting; “We’d do better to help each other and not to try to fight against honest and open conversations.” [31:38]
• Nick: Acknowledges Binance’s power, but “truth rises to the top over time”; advocates for less tribal zero-sum thinking and more collaboration.

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10. Token Distribution Philosophy

[35:27–36:44]

• Binance claims: All project tokens go 100% to users through marketing, airdrops, trading events, and other campaigns; trading fees (not listings) are their revenue.

• CJ’s skepticism:

  “I would be willing to bet against that. I don’t believe these kind of supply distributions are a net positive for users and retail investors.” [36:06]

• Nick: Dismisses Binance’s narrative as largely irrelevant to product and user outcomes.

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11. Over-Focus on Tokens: Shifting To Product and Real User Ownership

[36:44–42:03]

• Nick: Urges the space to focus on product utility, not just tokenomics or speculative hype.
  • “Products are what matter...let’s focus on prediction markets.” [36:44]
• Advice for listeners: “Buy Bitcoin, buy some ETH. Most people spend too much energy trying to find the next thing, end up losing all their money. Put 90% in Bitcoin and ETH. Use products.” [39:37]
• Seeks “missionary” (aligned, long-term) customers, not “mercenary” (quick profit) ones.

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12. Limitless Strategy & Philosophy

[42:13–49:11]

• CJ’s vision: Onboarding millions through on-chain prediction markets, prioritizing organic growth and community co-ownership.
• Innovations:
  • Community sale via Kaido, where heavier users got priority allocation, often on better terms than VCs.

    “Skin in the game drives acquisition and activation for the product…but also gives people the opportunity to co-own the product and network.” [47:22]

  • Price discovery is better done on-chain for greater integrity and sustainability.

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13. Learning from Polymarket & Future of Prediction Markets

[50:34–53:43]

• Nick: Praises Shane from Polymarket’s organic, community-driven approach (“did it from the ground up, his own way”). Predicts prediction markets like Polymarket and Limitless are among the best on-ramps for bringing new users to crypto.
• Polymarket’s upcoming “poly” token could blur the lines between a decentralized protocol and a profitable Web3 company.

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14. Interoperability & Industry Maturity

[54:08–55:00]

• Coinbase listing BNB:
  • CJ: Applauds bridging between formerly walled-off ecosystems (BNB/BASE), reflects growing maturity and possibility for mutually beneficial collaboration.
  • Nick: “Coinbase does what it says…it will get done.”

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Notable Quotes

• “The revolution will not be centralized.” — CJ Hetherington [14:48]
• “Truth is not in the op, it’s in the comments.” — Nick Tomato [15:47]
• “It’s only beneficial [for Binance] if they’re dumping day one, but not if you want to build a sustainable network.” — CJ Hetherington [22:07]
• “If your goal is to generate exit liquidity and dump on those people on day one, then sure it will work out very well. It all depends what your goals are.” — CJ Hetherington [47:22]
• “Skin in the game... is a powerful thing... I don’t think a Binance listing will move you closer to that.” — CJ Hetherington [47:22]
• “Buy bitcoin, buy some ether, use products. That’s how you win in this space.” — Nick Tomato [39:37]
• “Let’s focus on products that push the space forward, not just shilling tokens.” — Nick Tomato [36:44]

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• [00:49–02:14] – CJ reads and discusses Binance’s listing fee offer.
• [03:16] – Sustainability and long-term impact of listing fees.
• [05:02] – Nick’s reaction to CJ’s disclosure and the culture of fear.
• [13:04] – Backlash and unexpected wave of support after the tweet.
• [18:36] – Institutionalized “exit liquidity” and criticism of the token game.
• [22:07] – Devil’s advocate: Is it just smart distribution?
• [24:16] – CZ’s social media response; accusations of “cloud chasing.”
• [25:39–28:44] – Calls for on-chain transparency about CEX inflows/outflows.
• [31:38] – Thoughts on possible Binance retaliation.
• [36:06] – CJ’s bet against benefits to token teams from Binance’s model.
• [39:37] – Nick’s financial advice and focus on fundamentals.
• [47:22] – CJ details Limitless’s user/investor alignment via Kaido sale.

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Memorable Moments

• CZ publicly calls CJ a “loser” and threatens legal action — then tweet is deleted. [24:16, 24:28]
• Marked difference between actual and reported CEX inflows/outflows, with host/live fact-checking on DefiLlama and Coinglass numbers. [27:32–28:44]
• The flip of traditional “cold start” thinking: tokens as a way to solve early network growth problems, but dangers of overfinancialization. [44:34–45:28]
• Limitless’s Kaido sale: aligning users and investors with priority for early, real users (not just VCs). [48:25–49:11]

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Conclusion

This episode offers an unfiltered, candid view inside the opaque world of CEX token listings, using Binance and Limitless Labs as the dominant case study. The conversation addresses power dynamics, the role of transparency, the importance of open, on-chain ecosystems, and the industry’s need to emphasize real product adoption and long-term thinking over immediate token profits.

Builders, investors, and users are encouraged to demand transparency, align incentives with actual users, embrace real ownership, and approach tokens as tools—rather than products—within the broader mission of decentralizing finance and information.

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Transcript

[CJ Hetherington]

This is like a general kind of macro trend and wave, which is happening. The revolution will not be centralized.

[Nick Tomato]

The whole idea of a centralized company charging for charging fees for a listing, getting some of the token and then dumping it on, like, retail. As CG said, it's antithetical to really why I care about this space and why I'm here.

[Laura Shin]

Hi, everyone.

[Unchained Host]

Welcome to Unchained, your no hype resource for all things crypto.

[Laura Shin]

Crypto.

[Unchained Host]

I'm your host, Laura Shin.

[Laura Shin]

Today's topic is Binance and token listings. Here to discuss are CJ Hetherington, CEO and co founder at Limitless Labs, and Nick Tomato, founder and general partner at OneConfirmation. Welcome, CJ and Nick.

[Nick Tomato]

What's up?

[Laura Shin]

So, CJ, you went viral on Tuesday with a tweet in which you revealed the terms that Binance offered to you to list your token on their exchange. I'm just going to read what you tweeted. 1% airdrop on day one alpha listing. 3% for the airdrops in six months. 1%. Sorry. So this is like 1% of your token for this airdrop, et cetera. So 3% for further airdrops in six months. 1% for marketing at Binance. Binance has full discretion. Yeah, they would provide 100% of TVL for the token pool and pancakeswap at $1 million. Plus you would have to put down a $250,000 security deposit. 3% of the tokens reserved for BNB holder program, which. Hodler program, which. This is like where BNB token holders earn airdrops from tokens that are soon to list on Binance.

[Unchained Host]

You'd also have to pay another 200k.

[Laura Shin]

Worth of tokens for Binance affiliate marketers. And then you would also have to pay $2 million in a BNB security deposit for the spot listing who. So it takes courage to reveal the terms that the world's largest crypto exchange is offering you, since these deals are.

[Unchained Host]

Obviously meant to be confidential. And so you know when you're doing.

[Laura Shin]

That that you're going to be burning that bridge, and that's the bridge to the number one most powerful centralized entity in crypto. So walk me through your pro. Your. Your thought process that led you to tweet that, because that. That takes balls. So explain how you came to that decision.

[CJ Hetherington]

Well, you know, I think it was a very unique case because there were no confidentiality agreements in place, so I wasn't actually obliged to necessarily keep any of that information secret. And, you know, I think that truth is a Very important thing and we need more of it in the world. And there's a lot of, you know, speculation and back and forth about how sex listings actually work and finance in particular. And I think that it was just my hope that by sharing this we can actually move the space forward and kind of rip off the bandit, have a very constructive yet productive discussion. And actually I think that something that people are maybe not that aware of is, is that there is like a large cohort of people, which some may call it cabal, right, which consists of not only centralized exchanges, but also founders and market makers. And when you're probably a long term investor or founder, you look at this kind of offer and you think like how on Earth does 8% of the entire network makes sense if we're talking about the next three, five or even 10 years of a new ecosystem. But this cohort of people, they don't think in three, five or 10 years, they think about day one listing and dumping on day one. And I guess that changes the entire calculus because they're really not thinking long term at all. And they're just trying to generate exit liquidity from retail who are like hard working, like ordinary people with skin in the game who believe in these tokens that are actually getting dumped on. And that's the thing that I want to change because we just literally, we won't last very long as a space if this is what we're doing because it's not sustainable, essentially crime, by the way. And yeah, I really respect Binance, I really respect CC for everything they've done for the space in general. But that said, I really believe it's important to have open and constructive conversations and feedback from the market and really change how we approach token launches and distributions and communities in general.

[Laura Shin]

So Nick, so I don't know if you knew in advance that C.J. was going to defeat that, did you?

[Nick Tomato]

Or no, no, no, this is, this is the thing. I see some people saying this is some marketing thing to promote Limitless or something. That's not how I operate or really anyone in, in kind of our orbit operates. It's like we tell the truth. And when I think a lot of people in the space are afraid to tell the truth right about because if you're a founder and you know this giant is important, is perceived to be important for tokens, then you don't want to piss them off. Right? But in my career I've always been surprised to the upside of what happens when you actually just tweet the truth. And so I Think we need more people in the world, really. Founders in the space, people in the world, like C.J. and I know C.J. in real life. Right. There's so many people in crypto that are Twitter fingers focused on perception and not really doing anything. In real life, CJ is a young, hungry, tough kid. In real life, this dude's a boxer, okay? Like he. A real life boxer. Like, he's. And he's just being himself. So I just, I just love to see that. To me, Binance is really irrelevant. I've never used a Binance product. I don't really know anything about what they do. I, you know, I tried the product when it first came out in 2017. I logged in. I never traded, but I wanted to see how it worked. And it's never for me. I'm. I'm interested in bleeding edge crypto products that are pushing the space forward and respect to Binance for being a behemoth. Right. And being a fast follower on these things. But it's just, it's never interested me. And the story really isn't Binance. It's. We need more founders that are. That are willing to show some courage and be themselves. And that's what CJ did. And to me, really, the other interesting thing is just the response to it. Right. I think that the response on both sides is very interesting. And we can talk about that.

[Laura Shin]

Yeah, yeah. So before we get into that, because I do want to ask about that, cj. I just wanted to understand, you know, I asked you about, like, what led you to finally tweet that, and it sort of sounds like you had been noodling on these problems for a long time, and then you kind of had this moment where they sent you the terms and you hadn't signed an NDA and you were just like, I'm just going to run with this. Is that kind of how that happened? Like, because, like, like, they could, like you could have signed it and then. And like, sorry, they could have sent it to you in advance and, you know, made you sign it before revealing whatever the terms were. And so then, like, you wouldn't have been in this position, but like, somebody potentially would have had the opportunity that you had where they didn't sign it in advance, but, like, it wouldn't occur to them to reveal it. So, like, yeah, explain kind of just what happened in your head there.

[CJ Hetherington]

Yeah, sure. Well, I mean, I definitely didn't expect that it would get millions of views. I thought it would maybe get like a hundred thousand views. And honestly, like, I just wanted to compare the two ecosystems for other builders. Right. Because I get asked the question literally multiple times per week, why do you decide to build on base? Literally, I'm tired of being asked this question. And then when I was thinking about it, I was like, well, this is the approach of one ecosystem and this is the approach of the other. And I just wanted to share that with the world and be like, isn't it kind of obvious, guys? And yeah, truthfully, didn't expect that it would blow up as much as it did. Probably.

[Unchained Host]

Okay, but can you share why it.

[Laura Shin]

Is that you chose to build on base?

[CJ Hetherington]

Well, I mean, I think that it's very supportive builder ecosystem and doesn't have these kind of token supply grabs. And if you build something meaningful, I feel like you'll get supported not only by Climus, like as an entity, but by the broader community as well.

[Nick Tomato]

But I think the point is this wasn't like some super calculated thing, right? It's like you. And you've. You've tweeted other things kind of like this before. It's like, it's just how you feel and you posted it and this one in particular blew up. Right. I think when you're. You're telling the truth on Twitter, it's like, you know, a lot of, A lot of what you post really doesn't get any engagement at all, right? Because you're not chasing what the popular thing is or whatever. But sometimes it strikes a chord. And this one struck a chord, right?

[Laura Shin]

Huh? This is really interesting because honestly, one of the questions that I had written for you was if it was calculated. And the reason is last week, Jesse Pollock tweeted multiple times about centralized exchanges charging an arm and a leg for listings.

[Unchained Host]

He said, raise your hand if you.

[Laura Shin]

Are ready to go to war against sex listings that charge 2 to 9% of a token supply to be listed. And he tweeted this multiple times. So I kind of actually thought that maybe you guys had planned this out, but it sounds like it was much more spur of the moment.

[CJ Hetherington]

No, it definitely wasn't orchestrated. But I would say that, you know, like Jesse, like Jesse is, you know, not the determiner of public sentiment. Right. And I feel like a lot of people, you know, recently after this, you know, very kind of large scale cascading liquidation event which occurred, which is, in a way, it's almost kind of impossible to say that it wasn't pure market manipulation because you have cases where, you know, liquidity vanished from order books. And to me, it looked pretty obviously like an orchestrated attack on retail investors. Very much a drive by, on, on retail investors. And so I think that, you know, it's not only the kind of the listing, you know, that has created this like negative sentiment. I do believe that centralized exchange sentiment is at an all time low. I don't believe that's just because of Jesse or just because of Coinbase. I think that's because the on chain world is becoming much, much bigger and seeing a lot more adoption and attention and people are kind of waking up to these like extraction and manipulation games and they know that there is a better way.

[Nick Tomato]

Well, and if I can add, this is like a just long term macro trend. Okay. Like in 1992, Hal Finney wrote the the computer can be used as a tool to liberate and protect people rather than control them. Right. And that's why I'm still in this space and I care about it so much. And I think a lot of people look at the early cypherpunk movement as kind of anti government. Right. And the focus is on the, the government aspect of it and government control. And I think that's, that's very real. But if you look at the current administration in the U.S. okay, it's very much a pro freedom government now. And if you look at what the SEC is doing with the crypto task force and you know, the cftc and there's a lot of a big push really for, for more freedom, for more freedom for entrepreneurs and, and people generally. And when you have that, that opens the door for big companies to control people. Right. And so I think it's on the people. It's not on regulators, it's on the people to kind of rise up and, and call it out when it's happening. And it's not to say it's, it's evil or. But we need to talk, we need to have honest conversations about it more. And to me that's kind of some of the discussion that we're seeing post CJ's tweet.

[Laura Shin]

Yeah, well CJ, you also tweeted haters told me no one would want to work with us after such a tweet. The reality is more people are reaching out than ever. So tell us a little bit more about what happened behind the scenes after your tweet.

[CJ Hetherington]

Well, yeah, I mean like, you know, this was the kind of knee jerk reaction. There were two kind of men like FUDs towards limitless. The first one being that no one would want to work with us. And the second one being that no centralized exchanges Whatever list our token. And I can say with certainty that neither of those things are true. But also don't feel comfortable disclosing precise details about any of that right now because a lot of wheels are still in motion. But definitely we have a lot of exciting partnerships coming up from across the board, really from trading firms that are getting into prediction markets to decentralized exchanges, other on chain apps, more so like financial institutions. A lot of people are excited about Limitless and working with Limitless and the events of the last few days didn't change that at all. If anything, they, they, they kind of, they accelerated us.

[Laura Shin]

Wow.

[Unchained Host]

Okay.

[Laura Shin]

Like it almost sounds like what you're saying is that there was kind of general sentiment, you know, whether or not it was like, we don't have to say specifically it was against finance, but maybe it's just like interest in more things happening on chain and less interest in things happening in a centralized manner or something. And so like when they realized you were sort of part of that movement, they were like, hey, let's work together. Is that maybe how to characterize it?

[CJ Hetherington]

Yeah, I think also what Nick said, this is like a general kind of macro trend and wave which is happening. The revolution will not be centralized.

[Laura Shin]

We're televised. Okay, I guess so Nick, as you mentioned, you have invested in CJ and I wondered for you over the years, I'm sure you've worked with so many different teams where there is this calculus about Binance has a lot of influence in the industry. They are the largest centralized exchange. They have users just in so many different jurisdictions all around the globe. And CZ himself is very influential. So over the years, how have you seen other founders try to grapple with this question of sort of the double edged sword of getting a Binance token listing?

[Nick Tomato]

Maybe some of our founders have gotten token Binance token listings in the past, but it's not never something I've focused on or care about. Like I want founders who want to push crypto forward to be themselves and build products that push the space forward. It's like that the token game in crypto has never really been my thing I guess. So I do think tokens are very important as a way to give ownership to users. And so I very much encourage teams to, you know, first build products and then do do token drops to users. Like I think that's a great thing. It's one of the biggest innovations of crypto. And then where that gets listed, you know, I think if there's demand for will, you know, it will get listed Places and you know, people, other people will own it. Like the whole idea of a centralized company charging for charging fees for a listing, getting some of the token and then dumping it on like retail sciji said, it's just, it's antithetical to really why I care about this space and why I'm here. So. And the thing that I just think you need to be mindful of is people and companies that are projecting themselves too strongly and projecting narratives that are deceptive. And you know, ftx, right? FTX was projecting their narrative super strongly. And it wasn't the regulators that took FTX down, right. It wasn't the mainstream media, it was the crypto community. And I think there's, to me the ethos of crypto is like more transparency, more truth. And for, for people watching that like, that care about truth. The, the truth is in the comments. Okay. It's not in the, the op. The, the know the people strongly projecting. You need to study the comments. And of course with you know, the, the, the AI and bots, it's it that can be hard now too. But I very strongly think that the, the truth is in the comments and that's kind of what you need to look out for.

[Laura Shin]

I did want to actually, just like Nick very briefly alluded to this and I know cj, you have a lot of comments on this. You know, Nick talked about how there are token teams and VCS who will dump tokens. It's sort of like a kind of get rich quick mentality with the tokens. And cj, you mentioned before we started recording that you have a lot to say about that. So like give us a little bit more color on, you know what you're talking about.

[CJ Hetherington]

Yeah. So you know, there is the, like, I mean as Nick said, right. Sometimes the truth is not in the op, it's in the comments. And sometimes the truth about the token supply is not necessarily in the tokenomics sheet which is published by a particular team. And what happens is there is very much kind of gray area within these supply distributions where people are willing to pay like 8% of token supply which can never be long term sustainable for the majority of networks, which ultimately just has really dire consequences for the hard working people that believe in this, buy into this. Right. Because ultimately they are like the exit liquidity and they're the ones getting dumped on. And so that's actually why we see a lot of this kind of listing fee structure actually being accepted is because people are not playing long term games. People are out for kind of very short term extraction and like dumping on retail. And there are actually a lot of bad actors that, you know, I'm calling out here. And you know, this is also what Nick mentioned. When you can look at the responses to this truth and transparency, you kind of clearly see two camps of people, right? And there are camps of people who are like, this is for sure bad. And it doesn't even make sense because they're thinking in three, five, ten year horizons. And from the perspective of not doing crime, then there is another, you know, kind of tribe of people who are like, you know, pushing back heavily against this level of transparency and potentially, you know, that's because they're on the wrong side of this and on the wrong side of history.

[Laura Shin]

Okay, so I do want to also just ask one other thing because, you know, everybody was talking about how their proposal to you was to take 8% of the tokens. And you know, if you look at the proposal, it was for specific purposes, you know, 1% for like this airdrop, 3% for further airdrops over six months, 1% for marketing, another 3% for their BNB Hodler program. So it wasn't like, you know, give us 8%. It was like, we're going to use it for these specific purposes. And as I'm sure you're very well aware, everybody is talking about how this sort of like phase that we're in right now with crypto is distribution. And that's why people are saying like, oh, like, you know, stripes, stablecoin efforts are going to be really strong because they have distribution. Or the reason why people want to build on base is because, you know, like, if you get your, you like any coins on any base, dexes immediately are tradable on coinbase. So again, it's like a distribution play. So the devil's advocate question to what happened this week when you tweeted their proposal is just they can do this because there is a benefit to reaching their huge number of users. So what do you say to that? That actually what they're doing is not only smart, but is beneficial to those token teams.

[CJ Hetherington]

It's beneficial to them if they're dumping on day one, but not if they want to build a long term sustainable token network.

[Laura Shin]

But even though like some of this is for like longer term, like, you know, 3% is like, for, you know, airdrops over several months, like, like you still feel like this is just more a get rich quick kind of offer.

[Nick Tomato]

I mean there, there's data for this, right? Like, I think we could look at I don't know it off the top of my head, but you can look at the, the performance of, of the Binance Launchpad or whatever their products called and how those tokens have performed. Right. And my guess is that they have not performed well for their user, for, for the people that are buying into those. But they, you know, it performed great for Binance and maybe even good for the token teams who, as C.J. said, could dump. So. And no one's. Binance is a great. They've to this date been a great business. No one's saying they don't have the right to do this and maybe it's even smart if they, if their goal is to accumulate as much money power as they possibly can. Right. Then, then maybe it's a good strategy. But I think to me, the, again, the interesting thing, which we haven't even talked about is the Binance response to this. Okay. Which was the Binance support court threatened to sue C.J. and then deleted it. And then CZ, you know, called C.J. a loser. Right. Like that's, that's a little weird, don't you think?

[Laura Shin]

Yeah. Yeah. So, okay, I'll fill everybody in on all those things. Okay. So basic. So there, so there was like a funny moment. You posted what I guess was like a fake screenshot saying that CZ had blocked you. He, quote, tweeted and was like, wow, this guy is really cloud chasing, but what a loser. I didn't even know who he was until he posted this fake image saying, I blocked him. I could make it real, but I will choose mute instead. Ignore is the best rejection. And then, and then you tweeted back something like, oh, I, I played you. Or what? What did you say? Something like, cz, you got played.

[Nick Tomato]

Played yourself. That was a me. Like, that was obvious. Anyone paying attention knows, like, that was a meme, right? Like, and CJ and CZ responded to it just with a complete lack of awareness.

[Laura Shin]

Yeah. Okay. So then there was another one where Binance said your post was false and defamatory, but then also said that your tweet contained illegal and unauthorized disclosure of confidential communications with finance. And people were pointing out, they were.

[Unchained Host]

Like, wait, it can't be both.

[Laura Shin]

It's either false and defamatory or it's like real, like a real offer. And then of course they had the, you know, veiled threat to take legal action against you, and that's what they deleted. And then the other thing is that CZ during this time posted the long story about how Binance made a Bunch of its ICO participants whole not from the Binance ICO, but from other ICOs back in the 2017 era. And how at that time it cost them $6 million, which was 40% of all the money that they had. And he like made it into the story about, you know, how like Binance always puts its users first or whatever. And then somebody quote, tweeted it and said, oh wow, CZ is like shitting his pants or I forget the language they use, but these were some of the things that happened in the aftermath. So I guess why don't you comment on, you know, how you are reading their response.

[Nick Tomato]

I don't know. I don't know what to make of it. I think, I think it's just, I think it's interesting and I think the response the other way is almost more interesting. Right. Again, if you're looking at the real organic human response and not bots, you can tell what side the truth is on. And there's a lot of people kind of organically and again, I don't know the specifics of, you know, all the things they're saying. There's experts on Binance but like you can tell that there's people that are increasingly questioning, you know, Binance's practices. And to me, one of the, a tweet that you didn't mention that is. Is quite interesting and I actually, I would love if there's anyone watching that's like a kind of an on chain sleuth that can actually get the true inflows and outflows numbers on Binance Exchange that would be, I think very useful because the, you know, the girl co founder, his girlfriend or whatever tweeted, you know, they're all tweeting these inflow and outflow numbers and I think she tweeted the, the defi llama ones. What, what, what is the true. And I, I don't know the answer. I think my point is let's have a discussion about it and let's get some more transparency because the, you know, the benefit of being on chain is you can see the actual numbers and there's no questions about what's the true. Inflows. Outflows. If you go to Uniswap and look at their TVL or AAVE or you know, any or, or aerodrome or any of these. Right. You can see the actual numbers. And I think in, in the case of Binance inflows and outflows, it'd be very interesting for someone to look and see what, what is, what are the True numbers. Because there's very conflicting numbers that I've seen.

[Laura Shin]

Yeah. So the Coin Glass.

[Unchained Host]

The tweet that.

[Laura Shin]

Spiked this discussion was so Coin Glass on Tuesday, basically. What is this? It's like a little over. It's like 15 hours, I think, after CJ's tweet tweeted that Binance had experienced $21.7 billion in outflows over the past seven days. But then when. So if I just look at Defi Defi Llama at the. At the moment, it's saying that Binance had $248 million in inflows over the last seven days. So it's not exactly the same because today is the 16th. But it's strange because, you know, obviously we had. There was like the liquidations there. There like, there's been a lot of kind of like negative news for Binance over the last seven days and it doesn't feel like, like more than $22 billion worth would have flipped in the last two days since the Coin Glass tweet. So, yeah, that's.

[Nick Tomato]

Why are the Defi llama and Coin Glass numbers so different? That's what I. That's what someone, maybe someone watching can.

[Laura Shin]

Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. No, no, no. But you guys, Wait, wait, this is interesting. Okay, on when I click on the Coin Glass link, which is current, so before I was just reading the tweet that they tweeted on Tuesday, but now when I click on the link, it actually says over the past seven days, Binance has had $356 million in inflows. So that's interesting. So their inflows changed. So if on Tuesday night it was almost $22 billion in outflows, but then this is Thursday at noon, so what is. It's not quite 14 hours, it's like 39ish hours. Suddenly it's at a positive 356 million, which is much closer to the DeFi llama 250 million. So that's interesting. I like, we're not going to figure it out right here, but I just wanted to note that.

[CJ Hetherington]

Another interesting thing just while we're on this topic, is that Hyper Liquid was ranked number one by liquidations when we had all of those liquidations a few days ago, like Hyper Liquid was ranked number one. But most probably centralized exchanges under report the true extent of liquidations. And the reason why Hyper Liquid was number one is just because their liquidations were like fully unchained.

[Laura Shin]

Huh. Right. So who. Yeah, who knows? I mean, yeah, I guess Binance their reimbursement was just limited to the ones involving those three assets, the usde, what was it? Bn, sol, and then wbe. So, yeah, so that's not really indicative of what happened on the chain. Kind of like in totality.

[Unchained Host]

I know.

[Laura Shin]

Let's talk about the tweet that I accidentally showed on screen a little bit earlier, which I didn't mean to do, but we're using a new platform that I'm not familiar with, which is why that happens. So you saw it, cj, I know you did. It said, cz going to bury this project. That's the one. So, like, I wanted to ask you about that because, like, you know, I don't know. So they, you know, you guys had this back and forth. They, you know, kind of made this veiled attempt at a legal threat and then they pulled it back by deleting the tweet. Clearly, sentiment is against them. Like, are you worried at all, like, at this, at this point, you know, obviously I'm sure your token probably isn't going to get listed there, but, like, is there anything that you worry about that they could do, you know, regardless, or. Or do you feel like, you know, it? Like, yeah, just what's done is done, but they can't hurt you otherwise. I'm just curious, you know, I think.

[CJ Hetherington]

That, like, as a space and like, as an industry, we still have a way to go, especially, like, for on chain apps. It's only, you know, pretty recently that on chain apps really start to break out. And I think there's still a long way to go from the current state of what are mostly centralized businesses that kind of build on top of crypto and make some integrations with that and have crypto deposits, but are still ultimately custodial products. And I really think we'd do better to help each other and not to try to fight against honest and open conversations, but actually to embrace them and to embrace kind of like constructive feedback and kind of help each other actually to build, like a better industry.

[Nick Tomato]

Yeah, I think that's well said. I just want to add. I mean, I get that sentiment because look, they buried ftx, right? And they're very powerful. So completely hear that. But as C.J. said, it's like, I think truth rises to the top over time, and having honest, transparent discussions rather than these kind of tribal wars is definitely what we need to move towards. So much of crypto is so tribal, and it's a great thing in a sense. Right? In some ways, it's why bitcoin is what it is and why the space has grown. But I think we get into these kind of mimetic battles that turn out to be zero sum. And what we really want to do is recognize that it's still a positive sum space. Right. Like us politics is zero sum. Right. Because there's no growth anymore. So it's just these kind of lame tribal battles. But like crypto is still growing and we want to basically have honest discussions and, and push forward. So.

[Laura Shin]

Okay, well, you know, just, I guess one last thing that I wanted to ask you about was, you know, their final word on this was this clarification tweet where they sort of described the listing process and you know, the purpose of kind of the different demands that they had. So they said, quote, binance does not make money from the listing process. All project Token allocations go 100% to users through marketing campaign including Alpha airdrops, launch pool, Hodler airdrops, trading events, earn APR campaigns and more. Our business model is simple. Small trading fees, not listing revenue. To protect users, Binance requires a refundable security deposit from projects. It acts as a safeguard against short term exploitation and ensures the project team stays committed. Post listing. Once a project meets its commitments, the full deposit is returned. If you're in the early stages of your project, Binance Alpha is the best go to market path. No listing fees, just visibility, education and growth, etc. Etc. So I was just curious like do you, you know, like everybody knows that in, in crypto incentives, farming, like all these things are kind of like tools that, that, you know, different teams use. And that's sort of what they're saying here is like we're using it, you know, to you know, have people like farm in these different ways. Like do you, do you. Yeah, just do you take them to.

[Unchained Host]

Task for that or do you feel.

[Laura Shin]

Like that is sort of a legitimate reason or you know, what do you think of this way that they're framing these offers that they're making?

[CJ Hetherington]

I would willing to be the counterparty for this bet.

[Laura Shin]

Meaning that you would. That your token will succeed without all that?

[CJ Hetherington]

No, I mean I would like to. I mean like if this was a prediction market and you would quote me some odds that this is true, I would be willing to bet against you.

[Laura Shin]

Okay, so you feel like this is just extraction and their users will dump and it won't help the projects that take this deal.

[CJ Hetherington]

Yeah, I don't believe that these kind of supply distributions are a net positive thing for users and for retail investors. And I would be willing to bet against that. And as Nick said, you can just look at the data. We can just like, we can just look at the chart for, for, you know, like finance alpha listings. And the kind of, the proof is there.

[Laura Shin]

Okay. And Nick, what, what do you think of what they said?

[Nick Tomato]

I don't even, I don't. It didn't register with me, honestly. Like, I, I think at this point I, I think we're talking way too much about tokens. And it's like prediction markets are taking crypto mainstream in a way that like no other product has. And, and it's ultimately the products that matter. Right. We need, it's like there's so much like inward nonsense that we focus on in crypto and it's like, let's focus on the products that are pushing the space forward. Let's forget about what tribe we're on, forget about, you know, this token, that token. It's like, let's focus on prediction markets. And you know, Limitless is one of the leading on chain prediction markets. Right. That is, I think, has a chance to really onboard new users, crypto. And that's kind of, that's what I care about.

[Laura Shin]

So talk about that. When you said like, we're too focused on tokens, do you feel like it's almost like crypto is trying to use tokens to resolve problems that are better resolved in other ways or something?

[Nick Tomato]

Oh, well, look, I get it. Everyone, the initial use case for me, for pretty much everyone in crypto when I was, you know, in my early 20s, it's like, you don't have a lot of money, you want to make money any way you can. And, and tokens, meme coins, token listings, you know, whatever hype narrative is, looks like a way to make money for young people. Right? And it's, it's not necessarily a bad thing either. I think like as, as much as you can try to be paternalistic and tell people not to, to do that stuff, it's like people are going to do it. And for me, like, I did it, I was a degen, I lost a bunch of money. I, I leveled up and so, and then I learned that you actually, you know, you need to be curious, you need to think long term, you need to use products and that's how to really, you know, make money and change your life in crypto. And I think there's companies out there that their business is tokens and they're trying to make as much money as possible doing, you know, selling tokens to retail and they invest a Lot of marketing dollars in doing that. And it becomes too part of the discussion. So that's all. It's like, you know, token, it's like an insider game that also can bring in new people, but then most new people end up losing money from it and having to learn and level up. And so I hope that, you know, we can get past that and start talking about useful products. That's all.

[Laura Shin]

Okay, so let's talk about that for Limitless. Like, what's your plan here? And it can involve your token and your tge, but like, generally, how are you thinking about how to make this project a successful?

[Nick Tomato]

One thing I want to add too, by the way, is like, I don't want to be shilling this product or token like too hard. Like, you know, let's talk truthful about it. But like, the, the reality is 99 of people that come on this show are just shilling their narrative. And it's like, it's tiring, like, and it's, it's people that have made a ton of money too. I don't know why they keep doing it. It's like there's something soulless about it to me. And I think if you're someone watching this, it's like, buy bitcoin, buy some eth. Most people, they spend way too much time and energy trying to find the next big thing and they end up losing all their money. So put 90% in Bitcoin and ETH. And then use products. And if you want to try Limitless, use limitless. I wouldn't even advise anyone to buy Limitless, you know, right away unless you really use and understand and love the product. I think that's, that's kind of just the reality. I don't know, cj.

[Laura Shin]

Like, you're looking for, like when it comes to that mercenary versus missionary customer, you're, you're, you're saying that you are looking for the missionary customer.

[Nick Tomato]

Yeah, I mean, look, long term, we want to make this thing, you know, one of the most impactful trading products for people, right? And if people buy into that and believe the long term vision, then buy the token. But the problem is 99 of people that are jumping into tokens, they don't believe in anything. It's like, believe in something. It can be this kind of stupid saying that people use that. Some, some people that say it don't even. There's a project out there called Believe that actually believes in nothing. So it's like you need to be skeptical of the people that are saying things blatantly and be skeptical of me too. But I think what I'm really saying is, like, believe in the mission of Limitless, right? Which is bringing more truth to the world on chain transparency through prediction markets. And if you buy into that, then, you know, use the product and maybe get airdrop some tokens and maybe even buy some tokens. But I don't want to be shilling any token to any young person watching this. I just think we need to move past that as an industry.

[Unchained Host]

Okay, C.J.

[Laura Shin]

So answer the question. I asked about how you plan to make Limitless a success, whether or not you plan to use the token. You can mention any strategy.

[CJ Hetherington]

Yeah, well, I mean, fundamentally, I believe that all markets will move on chain. And of course, the kind of markets that we are most excited about right now is prediction markets. And we see huge potential and we believe we can onboard millions of net new customers into the space through prediction markets. And that's what Limitless is focused on. And especially right now in global markets and making it super easy for people to get onboarded and start trading in just a couple of tabs.

[Laura Shin]

Well, so, so basically your focus is like, just get people interested in this product and like, more like a product market fits type of strategy.

[CJ Hetherington]

Yeah, for sure.

[Laura Shin]

Okay, well, so I know the fact.

[Nick Tomato]

That you even have to ask that question. I mean, isn't that what we're trying to do? We're not trying to just shill narratives and tokens to people. Right. We're trying to get people to use products. And the, the token can be rocket fuel on a product that's successful. And we want a team to be aligned with users. So we want to, you know, create tokens to give ownership of the product to users. But it's like there's, there's just. We're not trying to. And, and we will. One of the interesting things about Limitless, okay, polymarket, of course, is the, is the pioneer and the giant. And you, if you, if people watching, want to look at a founder to like to model yourself after, really, I think it's Shane, right? Because Shane is someone that has willed this thing to one of the biggest things in crypto. And he, he plays the game his own way. He's just a, a real person. Okay. And so, but he's in. In term. And, you know, there may be a token there in the future as well. But I think one of the different things about Limitless is. Well, there's many different things, but one is we're kind of, you know, giving token ownership to Users earlier. Right. And so, you know, I, I think it's, it's product first, but the token is a part of it. But we don't want to be, you know, aggressively shilling this token to anyone that, that's listening.

[Laura Shin]

Yeah, I mean, like listening to you guys talk, it sort of reminds me of how, you know, back in the day when Fred Erson was like writing blog posts about how like an ICO was sort of the way the, like a solution to the cold start problem for any kind of network, right. That like it would allow you to attract users early, which is like an issue that a lot of networks have. But then it almost feels like you're saying like it swung too far to the other end where people only care just about the token and they don't care about the project. They just want to make money quickly and they're not like focused on the long term. So like in this day and age when you know you, you have things that have swung too far to the other end, like how do you think about kind of how to use this in a way that doesn't create additional problems for yourself?

[Nick Tomato]

Well, and C.J. can elaborate on this, but one thing, you know, in, in 2017, you remember Lara, you know, ICOs went crazy and we had, you know, these teams raising way too much money and it was all vaporware. They didn't have any real products. I think, you know, we've, we've seen good token launches, things like Uniswap, which raised, you know, venture capital, had an amazing product and then, you know, airdropped that token to users and you know, that worked pretty well. I think one thing about Limitless is we just invested in a round and, and people that care about Limitless, not vcs, but just like users, people that are interested in the product, got in on the same terms that we did. Okay. And that was through Kaido. And CJ can tell you more about that. But, but again I, to, to me it's about getting users and people that care involved and aligned because you know the problem, Airdrops are great too, but the problem when you have hundred million dollar VC rounds plus an airdrop, you can get a misalignment between like team and investors and users. And so I think, you know, doing something like we did here, where it's a much smaller round, it's not really for fundraising. It, you know, CJ could have raised a lot more from private investors, but it's more to get users that are aligned and that are missionary, not mercenary. Right. Like I Think the more we can think about how to use tokens but make it more missionary. That's a good thing for the space for sure.

[CJ Hetherington]

Yeah, it's like skin in the game driving acquisition and activation for the product but also giving people the opportunity to have skin in the game and co owning the product and the network is a very powerful thing. And if that is your intention and your goal, then I don't think a day one binance listing is going to move you much closer to that. But if your goal is to generate a bunch of exit liquidity and dump on those people on their one, then sure it will work out very well. It all depends actually what your goals are and how you're actually approaching things and also in what kind of time frames you're thinking. Right. And so yeah, I think with Limitless there is huge opportunity to kind of have an army of token holders who love the product and use the product every day. And this kind of puts fuel on the fire and supercharges the whole ecosystem and community.

[Laura Shin]

Okay, and tell us about the Kaito investment thing that you did. What was that?

[CJ Hetherington]

Yeah, it was basically just community sale so that users who love the product and they got priority allocation based on actually how much they use the product could, you know, as Nick said, invest at the same terms of other investors. I think, Sorry. I think the terms were maybe even a little bit better for the community with the vesting and all of that. But the allocation was kept like very small not to create a lot of cell pressure. And yeah, it was mostly just to give this opportunity to the community so that they can like have skin in the game from very early days and like build and grow this thing with us.

[Laura Shin]

Okay. And I heard you talking on Bankless about how you think that it's better to do price discovery on chain. So talk a little bit about that. Like how do you think about how to you know, create that with Limitless?

[CJ Hetherington]

So yeah, I mean like market makers are another, you know, set of factors that if you don't actually know what you're doing in terms of like liquid market, this is another kind of banana skin or I would say a kind of really dangerous time in a network's life cycle is actually the deals that they make with market makers. But you don't necessarily need market makers to have on chain token launch and price to discovery because of a lot of innovation that was made there. And so I think it's also better for the long term sustainability and health of the network not to have long options and a Lot of supply manipulation and price suppression from the market maker side, but actually to have a much more organic kind of price discovery on chain. And I think that's a model that Limitless is going to set like a very good example with and I believe that many others will follow.

[Laura Shin]

Okay. And Nick, I wanted to ask you because obviously you have watched the rise of Polymarket from day one. And you know, as you mentioned, like Shane really, he just willed it into existence. So talk a little bit about like, what you learned from watching that. Like, you know, how you think about how to get these projects off the ground and like what kind of takeaways, you know, you feel Limitless should, should use for, for its own strategy.

[Nick Tomato]

I mean, it's inspiring to me honestly. Like, and you can see the, the human response to Shane's success too. Like, I, I think, I think it could have ripple effect and it maybe it already has. Like, I think, you know, for, for cj. It's, it's, it's inspiring, right? Like, Shane is like a real human who is not. Who is playing the game like his own way. And people can tell that, right? You can see it's not bots, it's not, it's just, you know, a human response. So the main thing, takeaways or is like be yourself. Don't play the game that everyone thinks you need to play. Like, do it your way. And if you have belief in yourself and belief in the mission, you can do amazing things. And it's, it's pretty cool, right? It's awesome to see. I think it's, and it's great for, to, you know, I'm obviously an investor, so I'm excited about it from that perspective. But I mean, I'm excited about it for, for crypto broadly because I think we need more of that. And again, back to the token. It's like there's no token Shane. There's really. Shane was just focused on building this thing in real life and making a real life impact. He wasn't focused on, you know, crypto, Twitter. He wasn't focused on launching a token and getting, you know, getting it hyped. He, he did it from the ground up his, his way. And it's, I think it's, it's just starting too. Like, I think, you know, polymarket can be one of the biggest, the, the biggest company ever to come out of crypto, I think.

[Laura Shin]

And obviously Shane did kind of hint that there would be this poly token coming up. Can you talk at all about what that would be used for? Or, yeah, I don't want it to.

[Nick Tomato]

It's. I don't want to talk out of turn and talk too much about it. But look, anyone paying attention can tell that Shane gets it right? Like he, he understands the power of giving ownership of the product to users. And there, you know, I think that's the main thing. I think all the, you know, another thing is that to date, okay, in crypto, you've either gone the Coinbase route of being a public company or the Uniswap route of, you know, being kind of an on chain token project. And there is the opportunity for polymarket to do both.

[CJ Hetherington]

Right.

[Nick Tomato]

There's the potential for a decentralized Oracle type token and a massively valuable company. And again, that's just potential. I'm not saying that's exactly what will happen, but, you know, it's possible and people are definitely excited about Poly, so.

[Laura Shin]

Okay. All right, well, so we've covered a lot of topics. The only last bit of, like, news that we didn't touch on was the fact that now Coinbase is saying that it's going to. Or, sorry, that it has put BNB on its roadmap for listings. What did you make of that, cj?

[CJ Hetherington]

I think it's great. I think that this is how we all win when we help each other and collaborate. And I would love to see more base projects on Binance. And I would love to see more Binance projects on base. So, yeah, very happy to see this news.

[Laura Shin]

All right. Yeah, we'll have to see if they actually do it. And yeah, anyway, Coinbase does what it.

[Nick Tomato]

What Coinbase will do it. Coinbase does. It's in the history of crypto. Coinbase does what it says. Right. So they'll definitely do it.

[Laura Shin]

All right, well, thank you both so much for coming on on change and yeah, we'll have to see how everything goes and see how the limitless launch goes. Do you know when your TG can you announce that when that will happen?

[CJ Hetherington]

I would turn on post notifications because it's imminent.

[Laura Shin]

Okay. Okay. All right. Some Alpha right there, you guys. Okay, thanks everyone for joining and we'll catch you all later.

[Unchained Host]

Welcome to this week's crypto recap. Let's begin. Binance unveils relief plan after flash crash and token depegs. Binance has launched a sweeping compensation effort after a flash crash last week caused several major tokens, including usde, BNSOL and WBETH to lose their pegs and triggered widespread liquidations across the market. The exchange said it has already paid $283 million to affected Binance Earn users and rolled out a $400 million Together initiative to help traders recover from losses tied to forced liquidations. The plan includes up to $300 million for users who lost over 30% of their portfolios, along with a $100 million loan fund for institutional participants. Quote when we fall short, we take responsibility. There are no excuses or justifications, binance co founder Yeehe said. Separately, BNB chain launched a $45 million quote reload airdrop to reimburse 160,000 meme coin traders impacted by the crash. Analysts cited internal Oracle issues and liquidity strains as factors that intensified the deeps. DOJ seizes $15 billion in Bitcoin from global quote Pig butchering scam network the US Department of Justice has seized approximately $15 billion worth of Bitcoin tied to a massive QUOTE pig butchering fraud ring operating out of Cambodia, marking the largest cryptocurrency forfeiture in the department's history. Federal prosecutors charged 38 year old Chen Xi, also known as Vincent, with wire fraud and money laundering conspiracy for allegedly overseeing the scheme through his conglomerate Prince Holding Group. The company is accused of running forced labor scam compounds that trafficked victims and coerced them into executing crypto investment frauds that targeted users worldwide. Quote Prince Group's investment scams have caused billions of dollars in losses and untold misery to victims around the world, said Brooklyn U.S. attorney Joseph Nisella. The Treasury Department simultaneously designated the Prince Group as a transnational criminal organization and sanctioned more than 100 individuals and entities linked to Xi. The defendant remains at large while the seized Bitcoin totaling 127,271 BTC is now in US government custody. BlackRock, Citi and Global banks accelerate push into tokenized finance Major financial institutions are deepening their move into digital assets, with BlackRock leading a new wave of blockchain adoption across Wall Street. CEO Larry Fink revealed that the firm is developing its own tokenization technology to convert traditional assets like ETFs and real estate into blockchain based tokens. We need to be tokenizing all assets, especially those with multiple levels of intermediaries, fink said, describing the effort as key to reducing costs and expanding access to capital markets. BlackRock already manages the world's largest Bitcoin and Ethereum ETFs worth $93 billion and $17 billion, respectively, and operates its $2.8 billion tokenized Biddle Fund through Securitize. Meanwhile, Citibank plans to launch a crypto custody service in 2026, and JP Morgan is preparing to roll out crypto trading operations. In a parallel initiative, a consortium of major banks including Goldman Sachs, Citi and Bank of America is exploring a stablecoin like digital money backed one to one by Fiat Reserves, marking a coordinated effort to integrate blockchain into global payment systems. Bankman Fried claims arrest was meant to block his testimony on crypto bill Former FTX CEO Sam Bankman Fried has resurfaced on social media, alleging that his 2022 arrest was politically motivated and timed to prevent him from testifying before Congress on a major cryptocurrency bill. Posting through a friend on the social platform Getter, Bankman Fried accused the Biden administration's regulators of targeting him for political reasons. Quote, they had me arrested weeks before the crypto bill I was working on was set for a vote and the night before I was set to testify before Congress, he wrote. The Post also claimed that then SEC chair Gary Gensler, quote, conveniently lost end quote communications Republicans had requested around the time of his arrest. The former exchange founder, who is serving a 25 year prison sentence for fraud and misappropriation of funds, has been increasingly vocal ahead of his Nov. 3 appeal hearing. Critics argue his renewed activity is part of a broader campaign to seek clemency from President Trump. Bankman Fried has not publicly responded to those claims. Nobel Peace Prize betting surge investigation into possible leak Norwegian officials are investigating whether confidential information about this year's Nobel Peace Prize winner was leaked after a spike in online bets predicted the outcome hours before the official announcement. Data from the crypto based prediction platform Polymarket showed that wagers on Venezuelan opposition leader Maria Carina Machado surged shortly after midnight in Norway ahead of her selection as the 2025 laureate. One trader using the handle DirtyCup reportedly bet $70,000 on Machado and earned about $30,000 in profit, while three accounts collectively gained around $90,000 from similar bets. We take this very seriously, said Christian Berg Harpviken, director of the Norwegian Nobel Institute. It seems we have been prey to a criminal actor who wants to earn money on our information. Officials said they are investigating whether anyone, quote, managed to steal information, end quote from the secretive selection process. Hyperliquid activates upgrade to enable decentralized perpetual trading Decentralized exchange Hyperliquid has activated its latest upgrade, HIP3, aiming to decentralize the perpetual futures market. The new system allows qualified deployers to launch their own perpetual dexes on HyperCore by staking 500,000 HYPE tokens. According to project administrators, HIP3 will be enabled during this network upgrade. There is no immediate change for users, but deployers can begin launching new markets once ready. The proposal, known as Hyper Liquid Improvement Proposal 3, integrates with HYPEREVM to support smart contracts and governance, while introducing safeguards like validator slashing and open interest limits to maintain market stability. Celsius wins $300 million settlement from tether in bankruptcy case Celsius Network has secured a $299.5 million settlement from stablecoin issuer Tether, ending a year long legal battle over the liquidation of Bitcoin collateral during the lender's 2022 collapse. The dispute centered on 39542 BTC that Tether allegedly liquidated before a required 10 hour notice period expired, a move Celsius claimed worsened its insolvency. Tether maintained the actions were contractually justified, arguing Celsius had failed to meet margin calls. The settlement, about 7% of Celsius's original $4.3 billion claim, was approved by the U.S. bankruptcy Court for the Southern District of New York and confirmed by the Blockchain Recovery Investment Consortium, which manages Celsius's estate. Quote Tether is pleased to have reached a settlement of all issues related to the Celsius bankruptcy, said Tether CEO Paolo Ardoino. Fun Bits Paxos mints all the money, then deletes it In a move that briefly made PayPal the richest company in the universe, Paxos accidentally minted $300 trillion worth of PayPal's stablecoin PyUSD. That's trillion with a T. The glitch caused by a misplaced decimal turned what was supposed to be a $300,000 transfer into the digital equivalent of printing all the world's money and then some. Quote Paxos just minted the entirety of global debt, quipped analytics firm Arkham. As traders collectively spit out their coffee. The company quickly burned the excess tokens, assuring everyone quote no funds lost, just our dignity. It's not Paxos's first fat finger fumble. Back in 2023, they paid $500,000 in fees for a $2,000 Bitcoin transaction. Some lessons, it seems, cost a fortune. These guys took the idea of the trillion dollar coin a little too literally. Unchained is produced by Laura Shin, with help from Matt Pilchard, Juan Aranovich, Margaret Curia, and Pam Majumdar. The weekly recap was written by Juan Aranovich and edited by Stephen Ehrlich. Thanks for listening.