Unchained Podcast, Ep. 905 — “Bits + Bips: Could a Base Token Be Coinbase's Key to a Super App?”

Date: September 17, 2025
Host: Laura Shin (with substitute host Steve Erlich for this episode)
Guests:

• Rahm Alwalia, CEO of Lumita
• Nick Cary, Co-founder & Vice Chairman, Blockchain.com
• Max (Deputy CIO, Franklin Templeton Solutions)

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the evolving intersection of crypto and traditional finance, focusing on Coinbase’s rumored launch of a Base token and the company’s ambitions for a “super app.” The panel explores regulatory shifts, token utility, the super app arms race, institutional adoption, asset valuation, and the importance of privacy in Web3. The discussion is rich with speculation, industry perspective, and practical commentary on the future of digital assets and macroeconomics.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Implications of a Base Token Launch

• Coinbase's Strategic Shift:

  • Coinbase is reportedly preparing to launch a Base token, reversing its longstanding reluctance, likely due to changing regulatory environments in the US.
  • The Base network is an Ethereum L2 utilizing optimistic rollups, allowing Coinbase to deepen its participation in the smart contract ecosystem.
  • Speculation Over Utility: The consensus is uncertainty over the token’s purpose if it lacks revenue-sharing or governance rights.
    • “If it doesn't offer governance, if it doesn't really give you anything, then what's the point to owning tokens? I think they're going to need to answer that question.” — Max (00:00, 10:58)

• Shareholder and Regulatory Considerations:

  • Shareholders don’t appear to have a say in the token launch; it’s entirely management’s call.
  • There’s high scrutiny on how the token will differentiate from existing products and whether it could cause shareholder dilution.
  • Regulatory clarity over the past year has encouraged innovation: “This is also evidence that the regulatory clarity that we've seen come out over the last 12 months is inviting innovation to come back onshore in the US…” — Nick Cary (10:16)

• Possible Motivations:

  • The need for new revenue streams as existing ones (like USDC interest income) come under pressure (08:13).
  • Speculated use as a growth and user acquisition tool for Coinbase’s planned super app (15:14).

2. Coinbase’s Super App Ambitions & Industry Landscape

• Super App Strategy:

  • Coinbase is revamping its wallet into a “super app,” aiming to integrate payments, crypto, and more—mirroring Asian models (like Alipay).
  • Token incentives may be central to bootstrapping adoption (15:14).
  • “Everyone wants to control the customer and they’re racing to integrate a complete product suite — crypto and equities and bank-like capabilities.” — Ram (23:59)

• Competition and Positioning:

  • Blockchain.com and Coinbase have taken opposite approaches: one as a native infrastructure provider, the other as a crypto bank.
  • The big opportunity is tying on-chain activity to off-chain APIs and real-world assets (20:58).

• Traditional Finance (TradFi) Integration:

  • Coinbase is uniquely positioned to bridge TradFi and crypto—offering off-chain/on-chain services, regulatory compliance, and fiat on/off ramps (19:31, 21:08).
  • The traditional financial institutions are shifting perspective: “Basically the big financial institutions will start to see Coinbase more as a traditional threat to them actually than this weird crypto thing that was just slowly finding its way into the US market.” — Nick (22:38)

3. How Institutions Evaluate L2 Tokens

• Valuation Approaches:

  • Institutions like Franklin Templeton are building multifactor models to evaluate digital assets:
    • DCF/cash flow models for some tokens.
    • Network effect models for assets like Ethereum.
    • Statistical methods and AI/natural language processing for sentiment and momentum factors.
    • “Momentum is a factor. It has to be a factor in digital assets right now, but it is one of six.” — Max (28:58)
  • There's a need for better diversified digital asset products, beyond BTC and ETH (12:03).

• Anecdotal Evidence of Maturity:

  • Institutional frameworks for evaluation have evolved dramatically since the 2017 bull run (28:58).
  • Major asset managers like BlackRock and NASDAQ are moving into tokenization, signaling adoption at scale (29:20).

4. Super App Arms Race and M&A

• Global Dynamics:

  • Telegram and its TON Coin as an example of a global super app with native layer-1 functionality, highlighting this as an international contest (30:32, 32:17).

• Potential for Consolidation:

  • Panelists see significant upcoming M&A activity, especially as banks and tech giants seek to “not be Blockbuster” (32:47, 35:12).
  • Acqui-hires and team purchases likely at smaller, more reasonably valued companies, but big names may still pay up for capability (35:12–36:00).
  • “At a certain price, everyone’s for sale.” — Rahm (36:00)

• Tech Giants’ Challenge:

  • Cultural differences and internal priorities (like AI) might prevent FAANG companies from fully winning in crypto (38:41).
  • The privacy-centric, decentralized ethos of crypto startups clashes with traditional, hierarchical tech company cultures (38:41–39:48).

5. The Enduring Issue of Privacy in Crypto

• Panel Reflections:

  • Despite crypto's potential for privacy, actual adoption of privacy features remains low (45:35–47:49).
    • “If people really cared about [privacy], I would see at least one of those projects really take off. And I haven’t yet, so it’s upsetting to me, honestly.” — Steve (45:35, 47:49)

• Regulatory Headwinds:

  • Post-9/11 regulations have put intense KYC/AML burdens, eroding real financial privacy even in Switzerland (43:51–45:35).
  • Privacy advocates are outnumbered by users willing to trade privacy for convenience.
  • Blockchain and smart contracts theoretically enable user-controlled consent and remuneration for data sharing, but real-world usage lags.

• The Cultural Paradox:

  • “You need transparency for privacy… That’s where [certain projects] show the transparency and thereby actually give me privacy.” — Max (47:49)

6. Macroeconomic Backdrop and Crypto

• FOMC Rate Cuts:

  • Anticipation of a 25 bip Fed rate cut; panelists explore implications for risk assets, particularly crypto (50:40–51:52).
  • Some suggest the rate cut is unnecessary; demographic shifts and productivity increases are the real drivers (53:33–54:53).

• Q4 Seasonality:

  • “Q4 has seasonality effects for crypto. I’d love to spend more time digging into why those things happen, but it’s algorithmic, it’s seasonal… Every holiday season, people talk about that kid they know that bought some Bitcoin in 2013.” — Nick (60:24)

• Inflation and Tariffs:

  • Tariffs are biting small businesses more than large caps, and any moves to remove tariffs will be influenced by the political cycle (57:45–59:57).
  • “Upsetting Trump is more dangerous than upsetting your constituents.” — Max (59:57)

• Crypto’s Decoupling and Maturity:

  • Notable that FOMC cuts are now part of crypto asset allocation calculus, signaling how mainstream the industry has become (60:24).
  • Multiple strong tailwinds for the space: ETF inflows, regulatory clarity, proliferation of new products (stablecoins, L2s, etc.) (62:38).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Token Utility:

  • “If it doesn't offer governance, if it doesn't really give you anything, then what's the point to owning tokens? I think they're going to need to answer that question.” — Max (00:00, also restated at 10:58)

• Regulatory Environment as Innovation Driver:

  • “This is also evidence that the regulatory clarity that we've seen come out over the last 12 months is inviting innovation to come back onshore in the US and for whatever that's worth, I think that is probably a good thing.” — Nick Cary (10:16)

• On Coinbase’s Uniqueness:

  • “Coinbase is one of the few institutions that straddles this bridge between the traditional finance world and the digital asset world.” — Rahm (19:31)

• On the Rise of Super App Competition:

  • “Everyone wants to control the customer and they're racing to integrate a complete product suite, crypto and equities and bank like capabilities.” — Rahm (23:59)
  • “Telegram is the social media app that people in digital assets use globally…For one of the first times we’re going to have this competition between the Silicon Valley greats and I think this emerging markets leader and really about building a user experience that covers all kinds of things, messaging, wealth, gaming, artwork, culture…” — Nick (30:32)

• On Privacy:

  • “If you don’t have privacy by design in the first place, the whole thing’s compromised.” — Nick (40:29)
  • “You need transparency for privacy…if I’m using a VPN, how do I really know that my data is private…that’s where I can’t validate what happens to my data end to end. I can validate that with certain L2 projects.” — Max (47:49)

• On Institutionalization of Crypto:

  • “It’s amazing how far along these types of frameworks have come. By the way, if you considered how people were thinking about these kind of things… in 2017.” — Nick (28:58)
  • “NASDQ announced last week they’re focusing on tokenization…BlackRock…leading banks trying to figure out what they’re going to do. The banks don’t know what they’re going to do yet.” — Rahm (29:20)

• On Macro & Crypto Convergence:

  • “We didn’t used to talk about FOMC rate cuts and crypto calls, so this is new territory for some of us.” — Nick (60:24)

Key Timestamps

• Base Token Utility & Governance Concerns — 00:00, 10:58
• Regulatory Environment and Coinbase’s Strategy — 08:29 – 13:25
• Coinbase’s Super App Play, User Incentives — 15:14 – 17:02
• Valuing L2 Tokens: Institutional Approach — 26:32 – 29:20
• Global Super App Competition: TON & Telegram — 30:32 – 32:17
• M&A Activity, Big Tech vs. Crypto Startups — 32:47 – 39:48
• Privacy: Tech, Regulation, and User Apathy — 40:29 – 48:49
• Macro Backdrop: FOMC Rates, Tariffs, Crypto Flows — 50:40 – 63:28

Conclusion

This episode wove together highly technical crypto topics, real-world market strategy, regulatory analysis, and macroeconomic context. The main takeaway is that the lines between crypto and traditional finance are blurring rapidly. The imminent Base token will test how exchanges, institutions, and users perceive utility and value in a changing regulatory era. Meanwhile, the next big contest may be not just for protocol dominance, but for control of the “super app” experience—across borders, industries, and technologies. Privacy, regulation, and institutional integration remain core themes, and crypto’s future seems poised for both explosive growth and ongoing tension with legacy systems.