Unchained Podcast: Bits + Bips – Reasons to Be Optimistic After Bitcoin Falls Toward $100K

Episode 938 | November 4, 2025
Host: Laura Shin
Panel: Austin Campbell (Moderator, Zero Knowledge Group/NYU Stern), Chris Perkins (CoinFund), Rahm (Founder, Luma Wealth), Teddy Faro (President, Bitwise)

Episode Overview

In the wake of Bitcoin’s dip below $106K and widespread outflows from spot Bitcoin ETFs, the panel dives into the current climate in crypto and capital markets: macro sentiment, institutional adoption, regulatory shifts, stablecoins, and emerging narratives for 2026. The tone is candid, lively, and occasionally irreverent, with deep dives, contrarian takes, and plenty of hot-seat moments.

Market Sentiment & Macro Backdrop

[03:01–12:53] “Uptober” Disappoints: Bitcoin, ETFs & Institutional Views

• Market Recap: October saw Bitcoin fall below $106K; spot Bitcoin ETFs had $800 million in outflows (10/27–10/31), with investor fear rising (Fear & Greed Index ~42). Sparse inflows in Ethereum and Solana ETFs (e.g., Solana pulled $421 million).
• Rahm: “Looking forward things are fairly constructive just on risk assets... Earnings growth is stellar. The Capex boom is still here... I’m fairly constructive looking forward.” [03:55]
• Chris Perkins: “It almost feels like this slingshot’s happening... liquidity is going to come moving back into the market very abruptly, and that’s done well in the past.” [06:03]
• Austin Campbell/Teddy: While sentiment on Crypto Twitter is negative, conversations with institutional allocators and wealth platforms are “the most positive” Bitwise has ever seen. Institutional pipes are opening, but take longer than retail. [09:18]
• Notable quote, Chris: “Aren’t you talking about a new flippening? ...going from retail to institutional?” [11:00]

Institutional vs. Retail – The Flippening

[09:18–16:24] A Paradigm Shift in Crypto Buyer Base?

• The panel observes a “flippening” as institutional capital overtakes retail in setting the tone and flow in crypto asset markets. ETFs (esp. spot BTC, ETH, now Solana) are institutional on-ramps.
• Austin Campbell: “In audiences that are a little bit away from ours, I think that there’s a real significant amount of excitement and momentum.” [10:32]
• Rahm: “Going from QT [quantitative tightening] to QE [quantitative easing] is a big deal… you’ve got a new Fed chief… probably going to see lower rates.” [11:12]
• Portfolio construction questions are now mainstream for BTC: “Does it come from a commodities bucket? Alternatives bucket? Inflation hedge bucket?” [14:12]

Ethereum & Solana: The “Next in Line” Narrative

[12:53–19:28] Solana ETF Splash & Institutional Interest

• Teddy (Bitwise) on Solana ETF (BSol) Launch:
  • First fully spot Solana ETF in the US, launched via a regulatory loophole (automatic effectiveness clause) during the government shutdown.
  • “BSol was the number one ETF launch of 2025 [by day one volume]. That’s a moment for the crypto community … pretty cool to see a crypto ETF taking that mantle.” [16:51]
• Ethereum: Slow uptake; “another educational journey” needed for institutions to get comfortable. [14:12]

Ripple: Capital, Ecosystem Building, and Skepticism

[21:20–28:48] Ripple Narrative Gets a Fresh Look

• Chris Perkins’ Contrarian View: “You really can’t sleep on Ripple. They have close to $130 billion in market cap … They're very much on the offense right now.” [21:30]
• Ripple is investing, acquiring (Hidden Road), launching a stablecoin (RLUSD) — potentially formidable if well-executed.
• Host/Austin: “If you’re looking at stablecoins that have succeeded… distribution has always been the winning thing… My biggest question is how much of the value accrues to the token versus elsewhere.” [23:10]
• Rahm: “The smartest thing Ripple ever did was buy Hidden Road... that's a real business.” [24:10]
• Ripple and Solana’s aggressive NYC marketing is noted—“I feel like I'm in an alternate timeline... it's a good timeline to me.” [24:25]
• Austin (re: Brad Garlinghouse): “He helped grow AOL, Yahoo… Seasoned executive team—wouldn’t be surprised to see them do more.” [25:28]
• Panel: Still lacks a clear “go-to-market,” especially with stablecoins and cross-border payments space now full of competition.

Tether & Stablecoins: Profit, Distribution, and the $500B valuation question

[30:53–39:31] Tether as the Giant in the Room

• Host/Austin: “Tether … 10 billion year-to-date profits, 17th largest US treasury holder globally…probably the single biggest TradFi player in crypto.” [31:04]
• Rahm: “Isn’t the edge in their favor though?...Not only is it theirs to lose, they’re leading… Where’s the competition? So much US domestic competition…International — they own the roost.” [32:47]
• Tether USA’s push for regulatory clarity (Genius Act, USAT), political connections, and interoperability.
• But: Profit may get squeezed by distributors (e.g., Amazon, PayPal) who can auto-convert or favor whichever stablecoin offers better terms.
  • Austin: “I see a future for stablecoins where the distributors and the consumers are going to suck all of that profit out of Tether…” [35:59]
• Valuation head-scratching:
  • “The only question for Tether is if you’re looking at the equity, is $500 billion too high a price?... It’s like the meme of the two buttons.” — Rahm [34:02]
• Chris Perkins: “Tether has no desire or need to give away any of that interest. So that's going to their bottom line... war chest… formidable—distribution and utility.” [34:46]

Emerging Asset Structures: DATs vs. ETFs

[39:50–44:50] The Fight for “Modern Portfolio” Supremacy

• DATs (“Data Asset Trusts”) vs. ETFs:
  • DATs can actively manage, borrow, lend, hedge, and leverage—attractive to advanced investors.
  • ETFs provide “plain vanilla” exposure, are secure, and are preferred for estate planning and regulatory compliance.
  • Austin: “I think there are things interesting about DATs that are differentiated from ETFs… management team matters, their ability to be pragmatic about market cycles matters.” [40:08]
  • “I think ETFs are going to be the dominant form of holding crypto for most casual investors...you don’t have to worry about the private keys.” — Host [44:50]

Regulation: The Clarity Act, Genius Act, and Washington’s Eternal Thornbush

[46:49–58:26] The Tug-of-War in DC

• Clarity Act (House) & RFIA (Senate) — Market structure legislation; stalemated for now.
  • Chris Perkins: “Everyone you talk to...they all really want to get something done, it seems. But...if you’re a Democrat, it's really the conflicts with Trump...and national security is the vector of attack.” [47:21]
  • “My advice is...we’ve got conflicts in crypto for sure, but also in equities...so let’s have an overall conflicts discussion.” [47:21]
  • “I personally think it’s going to be really freaking hard to get done [this year].” [47:21]
  • Host: “It may be long-term bullish for the space for this not to happen [quickly]... fitting into a bigger revamp of US capital markets writ large probably increases the odds of success.” [50:20]
• Chevron Doctrine is gone: Regulators can no longer fill legislative gaps, making clarity harder but also reducing overreach.
  • Chris Perkins: “You have to get more prescriptive [writing into law]... makes it even harder.” [51:48]
• DeFi regulatory clarity is the industry's top ask:
  • Sandboxes for experimentation, clear paths for regulated participation, especially important for institutional and TradFi crossovers.
  • Austin: “We see every day a lot of our clients who are in this zone of crossing over between TradFi, fully regulated, etc., and having the understanding and the ability to do things in DeFi… the tools are out there, but what’s the way that you do that (legally)?” [56:29]

Final Notes & Notable Quotes

• On the Need for Permissionless Options:
  • “It might not even be the necessity of using those things at all times so much as the possibility to use them... the credible threat of ‘I’ll take my business elsewhere’... has the potential to greatly up the game of the traditional financial space.” — Host [58:26]
• On Systemic Financial Structure:
  • “If you think about it, I’d probably rather decentralize risk than centralize it. It probably makes a much more robust system.” — Chris Perkins [59:35]
• Panelist Camaraderie: Good-natured ribbing throughout. E.g., “Wow. We redpilled Rahm on DATs finally... only took like three episodes.” — Chris Perkins [39:31]

Key Timestamps

• [03:01] – Market sentiment recap and panel outlook after the October drop
• [09:18] – Institutional sentiment vs. retail (the “flippening”)
• [14:12] – Bitcoin’s portfolio role for institutions; Ethereum and Solana ETF status
• [16:51] – Bitwise’s launch of BSol (Spot Solana ETF)
• [21:30] – Ripple’s ecosystem moves; capital and competitive positioning
• [31:04] – The scale and strategy of Tether, stablecoin market landscape
• [39:50] – ETFs vs. DATs for portfolio exposure
• [46:49] – US regulation: Clarity Act challenges, national security, and the post-Chevron landscape
• [56:29] – What clarity would mean for DeFi and TradFi crossover

Summary Takeaway

Despite Bitcoin’s recent correction and skittish markets, sentiment behind the scenes is positive, especially among institutional allocators. The industry's evolution is highlighted by new products (like spot Solana ETFs), bolder moves by large players (Ripple, Tether), and an ongoing shift from retail to institutional dominance. Regulatory clarity remains elusive but is inescapably necessary for DeFi and broader adoption—and may actually benefit from a slower, more deliberate approach. The episode brims with cautious optimism for the industry's maturity and resilience.

Listener-friendly, rich, and fast-paced, this episode gives both a pulse-check on crypto’s present and a peek at its near future: mainstream progress, regulatory realities, and the shifting center of gravity from memes to real-world money flows.