Unchained Podcast, Ep. 951 – Bits + Bips: Why the White House Says Crypto Must Grow in America

Date: November 19, 2025
Host: Laura Shin (Unchained), Panel: Austin Campbell, Chris (CoinFund), Rom (Luga),
Featured Guest: Patrick Witt (White House digital assets advisor)

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode of “Bits + Bips” focuses on Washington’s drive to ensure that the US leads in crypto innovation, discussing current legislative efforts, especially the new Senate market structure bill. Patrick Witt from the White House offers exclusive insight into the administration’s priorities, the interplay between innovation and regulation, and why they’re determined not to let crypto development go offshore. The panel also covers KYC/AML challenges, evolving attitudes in the Senate, privacy, the macro environment, and the pivotal convergence of AI, energy, and crypto as seen through recent industry events.

Key Segments & Discussion Points

1. The Senate Market Structure Bill: Progress and Difficulties

[04:39 – 11:46]

• The Senate draft bill expands CFTC’s authority and incorporates significant DeFi regulation.
• Collaboration between senators across parties, especially Senators Bozeman and Booker, has moved things forward.
• Still, “bracketed” areas are open for industry and agency feedback, especially on DeFi (Patrick Witt: [04:39]).
• The process is just beginning: "This is not the finishing line. This is the starting line." (Patrick Witt, [04:39])
• DeFi remains the trickiest part, but all parties are digging into details and are optimistic for a December markup, pending Senate calendar coordination.

Notable Quote:

"The cat's out of the bag. This industry is going to grow. It's just a question of whether or not it's going to grow here in America."
— Patrick Witt, [11:46]

2. DeFi, KYC, and Identity: Where’s the Line?

[11:46 – 24:28]

• DeFi is included in both the Senate’s Ag and Banking drafts, but remains the most controversial, technical challenge.
• Senators are trusted to draft and educate each other; champions like Senator Lummis and Haggerty are key.
• The issue of KYC/AML in tokenized assets is nuanced—protocol-level vs. token-level enforcement is debated.
• There’s a dual standard for stablecoins versus securities; why, and should that persist?
• Panelists highlight the potential for on-chain data and AI-driven oversight to actually improve enforcement beyond TradFi.

Notable Quotes:

"You can't bury your head in the sand and expect that crypto is just going to go away or that you're going to be able to kill it."
— Patrick Witt, [11:46]

"The technologies for privacy and the technologies for blockchain and oversight are going to run in parallel... it's going to be an issue that is going to develop over time as we try to appropriately balance individual liberties with the potential of this technology to be used for harm."
— Patrick Witt, [24:28]

3. The Administration’s Playbook & Institutional Perspective

[07:39 – 15:07]

• The White House now dedicates a full office to digital assets, highlighting their national importance.
• They’re following a comprehensive playbook: moves like the Genius Act, ending “Choke Point 2.0,” and now market structure via bipartisan, agency-coordinated steps.
• Balancing “disruption” to legacy finance: Institutional adoption is inevitable, but traditional players need runway and incentives to transition, not protectionist barriers.
• The administration aims for a technology-neutral approach: promotion of innovation, not crypto for crypto’s sake, but recognizing blockchain’s transformative potential in traditional finance.

Notable Quote:

"We want to make this the crypto capital of the world ... we want to make sure that we're maintaining our position in the financial system of the future."
— Patrick Witt, [11:46]

4. Bipartisan Engagement & The Path Forward in Congress

[25:35 – 29:54]

• Shutdowns ironically opened bandwidth for deeper bipartisan discussions among Senate staffers.
• Progressive Democrats like Senators Gillibrand and Booker have become leading voices.
• The challenge: Negotiating with a group—12 Democrats—rather than a single point person, means coalitions/subgroups may form on tough issues.
• Committees (Senate Banking & Ag) aim for concerted progress, with the White House lending input on red lines but not dictating Senate process.
• Timelines are hopeful but not guaranteed (December markup, possibly into next year).

Notable Quote:

"We want to be as technology neutral as possible ... [but] holding back a technology that holds so much promise because it's threatening to incumbents ... that's just not the American way."
— Patrick Witt, [29:54]

5. Macro & Market Sentiment: What’s Driving Asset Prices?

[34:09 – 42:38]

• Post-April, high beta assets (crypto, tech, uranium) rallied—which is now reversing amid Fed hawkishness and shift in rate expectations.
• Recent digital asset IPO bonanza created oversupply and profit-taking sentiment; market is now oversold, with fear dominant.
• Institutional investors are more methodical, with Cantor Fitzgerald emerging as a major capital formation hub.
• Structural advances in the industry (new products, DeFi, AI convergence) are happening, but the market remains cyclical and subject to regime shifts.

Notable Quotes:

"The institutions are definitely here. They just don't move so fast."
— Chris, [02:22] & [38:27]

"When you've seen levels of fear that we've had and you haven't seen the bounce ... then it's evidence that you do have a regime shift."
— Rom, [36:02]

6. Cantor Conference Insights: Convergence of Crypto, AI, and Energy

[40:36 – 45:23]

• Cantor’s Digital Assets AI and Energy Conference: Key players from all relevant sectors, signaling convergence.
• Tether, Polymarket, Ripple all headlined, with Tether positioning itself as an extension of dollarization in emerging markets.
• The boom in digital asset treasuries, event/prediction markets, and increasing institutionalization were all major themes.
• Panelists saw both positive foundational advances—and signs of hype cycle excesses typical near cycle tops.

7. Winners & Value Accrual: Long-Term Uncertainty

[45:58 – 52:24]

• Investment banking revenues and crypto VC proliferation are cyclical—hype may outpace substance for now.
• Picking eventual winners is much harder in crypto/payments than it was (e.g. with Amazon in e-commerce).
• Tokenization’s promise is large, but delivering utility and identifying where value accrues (i.e., to tokens or protocols) remains an open challenge.

Notable Quote:

"I don't know if you guys see winners. It's an incredibly competitive market. It's a well-financed market, high valuation, so ... I don't know that I have an edge in picking the emerging winner."
— Rom, [50:48]

8. Regulatory Double Standards, Compliance, and Mainstreaming

[56:25 – 63:29]

• Panelists debate the fairness and media portrayal of regulatory punishments (e.g. comparing Binance’s CZ and banking scandals).
• The media (e.g. 60 Minutes) is now differentiating between bad actors and the crypto industry as a whole—a sign of maturation.
• “Any press is good press” at this stage; crypto is now firmly in mainstream discourse.

Notable Quotes:

"The fact that crypto is part of the mainstream narrative is not bad for our space. And I think its brand is cleaning up in time. So we're becoming less and less fringe by the day."
— Chris, [61:00]

"There was unfair double standards between CZ being sent to jail and bank executives not being sent to jail. But I have pretty firmly been on the side of yes, and we should send those bank executives to jail."
— Austin Campbell, [61:43]

Memorable Moments & Quotes

• On the White House’s Stance:
  “The President sets the tone and he’s made clear that this administration is going to be pro innovation, pro technology development ... We want to be a leader in the future financial system.”
  — Patrick Witt, [32:47]
• On Regulating vs. Driving Offshore:
  "What we don't want to happen is ... to not pass something, that then causes ... crypto ... to happen offshore. The previous administration drove this innovation offshore. That's the filter we apply to any legislation."
  — Patrick Witt, [11:46]
• On Macro Market Structure:
  "This used to make me crazy ... Why isn't BCBS pushing and encouraging public blockchain use and elimination of hearstat risk rather than trying to protect the old system?"
  — Chris, [13:34]
• On Regulatory Technology Potential:
  "There's an opportunity here to modernize enforcement supervision ... The opportunity to algorithmically do ... tracking ... with all this data."
  — Patrick Witt, [21:38]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [04:39] Senate market structure bill progress
• [06:37] DEFI’s inclusion and negotiation complexity
• [07:39] White House’s digital assets mission
• [09:36] The educational challenge in the Senate
• [11:46] Debate: Modularizing legislation if DeFi proves too difficult
• [13:15] Disruption to legacy finance; fiduciary perspective
• [15:07] Historical arguments against stablecoins and lessons from money market funds
• [17:08] KYC/AML, identity, and compliance debates
• [21:38] Tech enabling modernized (and potentially better) oversight
• [24:28] Privacy versus enforcement balancing act
• [25:35] Democratic leadership and bipartisanship
• [29:54] Preventing a repeat of “Operation Choke Point”; neutrality
• [31:42] AI and its growing intersection with blockchain
• [34:09] Bitcoin market sentiment, macro factors (rates/Fed)
• [40:36] Cantor Conference – convergence, trends, takeaways
• [45:23] Investment banking cycles, picking winners, hype vs. substance
• [49:26] Market timing and value accrual
• [53:24] Prediction markets, adoption, and mainstreaming
• [56:25] Regulatory double standards, media narrative
• [61:31 et seq.] Final debate: criminal punishment, fairness, and precedent

Tone & Language

The tone is frank, witty, conversational, and frequently self-referential. There’s directness in assessment (“protect our business model”, “the cat’s out of the bag”), an undercurrent of optimism about innovation, and sharp awareness of the political and market realities facing crypto as it seeks mainstream and regulatory acceptance.

Summary Takeaway

America’s leadership in crypto is at stake—and the White House is determined not to let the opportunity slip away. The complex, bipartisan market structure bill in the Senate targets both industry and consumer protections, with a heavy focus on not stifling innovation or losing DeFi and development to foreign markets. Meanwhile, institutional adoption, regulatory technology, media maturity, and the convergence of AI, finance, and crypto all shape a dynamic and uncertain landscape. It’s early, outcomes are wide open, and while some hype is surely ahead of substance, the foundational progress is real.