Unchained Podcast Summary

Episode: Sharplink CEO on Why ETH Will Soon See a Boom in Demand: Bits + Bips - Ep. 934

Host: Laura Shin
Date: October 29, 2025

1. Overview of the Episode

This episode of Unchained dives into the intersection of macroeconomic trends, regulatory developments, and crypto innovation—especially focusing on the factors driving demand for Ethereum (ETH) and stablecoins. Moderated by Austin Campbell (NYU Stern), the discussion features Joseph Shalom (CEO, Sharplink), Chris Perkins (President, CoinFund), Rahm Alawalia (Founder, Lumina Wealth), with additional reporting and analysis provided by Steve Ehrlich (Unchained Executive Editor).

Key themes include:

• How shifts in the labor market and AI adoption may shape Fed decisions
• The regulatory climate fostering crypto innovation
• The strategic rise of stablecoins (notably Japan’s yen-pegged stablecoin)
• Why institutions are rapidly embracing tokenized assets (especially ETH)
• Implications of major banks (Citi, JP Morgan) integrating stablecoins and crypto collateral
• The symbolic impact of regulatory actions (e.g., the pardon of Binance founder CZ)
• The future of asset tokenization and what that means for ETH demand

2. Key Discussion Points and Insights

[00:00–13:58] The Macro Backdrop: Fed Policy, Labor Markets, and AI Disruption

• Fed's Dilemma:
  • Joseph Shalom: Warns that AI disruption may cause a sudden downturn in white-collar labor, prompting a potentially preemptive move from the Fed. (00:00)
  • Austin Campbell: Notes the Fed is expected to cut rates and is focused on transforming financial infrastructure, not just monetary cycles. (00:25, 12:43)
  • Rahm Alawalia: Contrasts the prevailing narrative, calling the economy “Goldilocks” based on strong productivity (AI-enabled), resilient earnings, and low unemployment. Says, “I think I'm the only one saying this is a Goldilocks economy.” (05:44)
  • Debate: The group discusses whether the Fed is innovating for the first time, shifting from mere rate cycles to leading real transformation—and whether AI could trigger abrupt changes in employment needing swift monetary response.

Notable Quotes

• Joseph Shalom:

  "There's a fear that when AI starts to materially disrupt, potentially have once in a generation interruption of white collar markets...the Fed may want to get ahead of that labor market potential significant downturn." (00:00)

• Rahm Alawalia:

  "Fundamentally this is Goldilocks...people just don't feel like it's Goldilocks in their head. They feel bad because of headlines and geopolitical risk...but fundamentally this is Goldilocks." (05:44)

[13:58–24:32] Global Stablecoin Innovations and U.S. Dollar Dominance

• Japan's Yen Stablecoin Launch:
  • JPYC launches the first yen stablecoin backed by JGBs and domestic savings, aiming for $66B issuance in three years. All three mega banks participate; targeted initially for trade flows. (13:58)
  • Global Impact:
    • Joseph Shalom: Argues this is an effort to defend the yen’s status amid fears of USD stablecoin dominance, reinforcing U.S. treasury demand. “US dominance in tokenized assets if backed by USD stablecoins is a double positive.” (15:14)
    • Chris Perkins: Highlights stablecoins as a solution to FX settlement risk (“herstat risk”), and expects better, faster, more efficient markets as countries race to issue their own stablecoins. (17:37)
    • Austin Campbell: Points out that adopting stablecoins for payments will quickly become essential for countries wanting their currencies to remain relevant in global trade.
  • Europe & UK Lagging: Europe’s tough stablecoin regulations may cause them to fall behind on innovation.

Notable Quotes

• Chris Perkins:

  "With stable coins, [settlement] goes away...these stablecoins are literally going to solve the problem that brought [the BIS] into existence...we're going to eliminate settlement risk." (17:37)

• Austin Campbell:

  "If I was a smaller country...I would be existentially worried even about the continued existence of my currency right now." (21:33)

[24:32–35:34] Stablecoins, Banks, and a Digital-Native Generation

• Banks Embrace Stablecoins:
  • Citi partners with Coinbase for cross-border, on-chain payments; seeks to modernize its vast treasury/payments network. (26:25)
  • Chris Perkins: Sees tokenized bank deposits as mostly a niche, emphasizing the simplicity and utility of stablecoins for both institutions and retail.
  • Joseph Shalom: Predicts retail use of crypto wallets will leapfrog traditional banking, especially in developing economies (and among young heirs of wealth).
  • Generational Shift:
    • Younger generations, especially outside the US, may have a crypto wallet but not a bank account.
    • Chris Perkins & Joseph Shalom: Foresee a new, digital "post-retail" demographic: AI agents making autonomous micropayments, powered by new standards like ERC8004 and X402.

Notable Quotes

• Joseph Shalom:

  "There's a massive generational shift...more likely, especially outside the US, to have a crypto wallet than...a deposit checking account at Citibank." (31:33)

• Chris Perkins:

  "There's a post retail demographic that's coming on the scene too. It's called AI Agents. I'm serious. That's the next one after this." (33:38)

[35:34–44:05] Institutional Embrace of Crypto as Collateral: JP Morgan’s Big Move

• JP Morgan to Accept BTC & ETH as Loan Collateral:
  • Symbolic shift: Jamie Dimon’s JP Morgan will accept Bitcoin and ETH as loan collateral by the end of 2025, cementing their legitimacy.
  • Chris Perkins: Notes the regulatory capital constraints that previously made crypto lending unattractive but sees this as "table stakes" for institutional finance now. (37:11)
  • Joseph Shalom: Calls it a “watershed moment.” Pledging BTC/ETH for loans gives massive liquidity to holders, mirroring how wealthy tech founders borrow against stock. Predicts ETH will be the backbone of “the next generation of finance.”
  • ETH Demand Set to Boom:
    • As institutions tokenize more assets and use Ethereum as a settlement layer, demand for ETH (and ETH-based assets) will escalate.
    • Rahm Alawalia: Notes that enabling lending against staked ETH will further differentiate it from Bitcoin.

Notable Quotes

• Joseph Shalom:

  "I think, I think that this is a watershed moment...all assets will be tokenized. Most of it is happening on Ethereum, over 80%." (38:38) "Wait till you see the largest financial firms in the world not only tokenize all equities, but tokenize the largest ETFs. You're going to see a boom for ETH and the Ethereum network." (40:15)

• Rahm Alawalia:

  "You have a couple trillion dollars that's now eligible for bank financing...you're going to have high net worth and ultra high net worth investors...get liquidity in their holdings without having to sell and pay tax less. Sell pressure." (41:16)

[44:05–55:55] Regulatory Signals, Binance, and Geopolitics

• Binance Founder CZ Pardoned:

  • Trump pardons Binance’s CZ, sparking debate on disparate treatment between crypto and TradFi execs. (44:05)
  • Rahm Alawalia: “He will go on history as one of the most incredible fintech entrepreneurs of all time...there's a disparate treatment here between him and what others did.” (45:36)
  • Austin Campbell: Criticizes the US for shutting down transparent, onshore stablecoins (Binance USD), benefiting less regulated offshore players instead. Calls for deeper AML and compliance reforms—“we can build a much better platform to stop the actual crime part.”
  • Chris Perkins: Draws attention to the seriousness of AML (anti-money laundering) by linking his military experience to the topic. Stresses the need for consistent rules across TradFi and crypto.

• The Future for Binance and U.S. Exchanges:

  • Expect Binance US to reenter the fray aggressively now that CZ is pardoned, challenging the regulatory moats of US-based exchanges (order book depth will matter).

Notable Quotes

• Chris Perkins:

  "We have much bigger issues than going after a CEO...why aren't the other CEOs thrown in jail? Double standard, for sure." (52:21)

• Austin Campbell:

  "I regard finance as a symptom of the problem rather than the problem itself...we can build a much better platform to stop the actual crime part of this from happening." (52:30)

[55:55–60:20] New Regulatory Leadership: CFTC Chair and Crypto Clarity

• Michael Selig Nominated as CFTC Chair:
  • Selig, a pro-crypto figure, expected to bring much-needed coordination between the SEC and CFTC, ending years of infighting.
  • Joseph Shalom: “You have to have a pro-crypto leader, but you can't abdicate the responsibility to enforce those clear laws.” (55:55)
  • Chris Perkins: Rejects criticism that Selig is “too close” to SEC Chair Atkins, arguing that inter-agency coordination is crucial. (57:04)
  • Austin Campbell/Rahm Alawalia: Emphasize the need for independent, pragmatic regulators and congressional action for taxonomy and clarity (e.g., Clarity Act).

Notable Quotes

• Joseph Shalom:

  "You're not going to have that internecine warfare that we've seen between the SEC and the cftc. They can essentially coordinate." (55:55)

• Chris Perkins:

  "I think the big question now is how fast can we get them confirmed? Who are going to be the other commissioners? And then let's get to work guys. We're running out of time." (57:04)

3. Steve Ehrlich's Deep Dive: Locked Tokens in DATs & Bitcoin Mining ([60:59–80:00])

Locked Tokens and DAT Innovation

• Locked vs Vested Tokens: Locked tokens often misunderstood—while viewed as out of circulation, they can often be moved or staked, just not traded on open markets. (61:20)
• DATs (Decentralized Asset Trusts):
  • VC firms and insiders deposit locked tokens into DATs (at steep discounts), receive liquid DAD shares, and can cash out ahead of lock-up schedules, occasionally reducing their long-term alignment with the protocol/community. (63:46, 65:46)
• Downside: This can lead to misaligned incentives—insiders get liquidity faster, potentially reducing motivation to keep building.

Notable Quotes

• Steve Ehrlich:

  "Not only were they buying the locked tokens, they were able to...issue shares that would become liquid much sooner...They got the benefit of buying in bulk at a discount, but then were able to basically sell these shares at a premium..." (63:46)

• Lara Shin:

  "They're kind of like cashing out early and it might decrease their incentive to keep working on the project." (69:30)

Bitcoin Miners Pivoting to AI/HPC

• AI-fueled HPC Boom:
  • Bitcoin miners are converting to high-performance computing (HPC), supplying server space for AI (not just BTC mining).
  • Mining stocks soaring, but this may portend a decline in U.S.-based mining as HPC is more profitable and infrastructure-intensive, favoring the US for now. (70:43–77:16)
• Long-Term Risk: If the AI bubble bursts, some miners could be left in debt with expensive infrastructure but no profitable contracts.

Notable Quotes

• Steve Ehrlich:

  "Among all the major public bitcoin miners...there's not a single one that's a pure play bitcoin miner anymore...there is no...facilities will not be able to turn back to bitcoin even if they wanted to for a decade..." (74:43)

4. Conclusion

This episode offers essential context for anyone interested in crypto’s macro future:

• Rate cuts and regulatory clarity are bullish for risk assets—particularly for ETH, which is positioned as crypto’s financial backbone.
• The global stablecoin race is reinforcing USD (and soon, yen) dominance; regulatory frameworks are becoming more permissive.
• Retail adoption will be driven by digital-native generations and soon, AI agents—pushing crypto wallets ahead of traditional bank accounts.
• Institutional adoption is legitimated by JP Morgan and Citi—driving new demand for tokenized assets, especially on ETH.
• Shifting mining economics and creative asset structuring (in DATs) show the complexity of incentive alignment and industry adaptation.

5. Most Memorable Moments & Quotes

• On the macro cycle:
  "You can kind of take whatever you want from the picture that's being painted right now..."
  — Austin Campbell (10:15)

• On Ethereum’s future:
  "You're going to see a boom for ETH and the Ethereum network. And that's why we're very bullish in gathering as much of this as we can at its current prices."
  — Joseph Shalom (40:15)

• On stablecoin’s global impact:
  "It's pretty ironic...these stablecoins are literally going to solve the problem that brought [the BIS] into existence."
  — Chris Perkins (17:37)

• On regulatory coordination:
  "You have to have a pro crypto leader, but you can't abdicate the responsibility to enforce those clear laws."
  — Joseph Shalom (55:55)

6. Recommended Timestamps for Key Segments

• Macro backdrop, labor & AI, the Fed: 00:00–13:58
• Yen stablecoin, global competition, stablecoin as UST demand: 13:58–24:32
• Banks & stablecoins, generational/AI shift: 24:32–35:34
• JP Morgan, ETH as collateral, asset tokenization mega-trend: 35:34–44:05
• CZ/Binance regulatory lens: 44:05–55:55
• New CFTC Chair, regulatory clarity: 55:55–60:20
• DATs & locked tokens: 60:59–70:36
• Bitcoin miners pivot to AI/HPC: 70:43–80:00

7. Tone and Language

The episode maintains a conversational but highly analytical tone, balancing Wall Street experience, technical acumen, regulatory insight, and market realism. The hosts and guests present insights with both bullish optimism (especially on innovative tech and asset tokenization) and clear-eyed caution about structural challenges, regulatory politics, and incentive mismatches.

Final Takeaway:
The crypto space stands at an inflection point—poised for rapid institutional adoption, global competition for monetary rails, and a new era of programmable, agentic money. ETH and stablecoins are at the center of this transformation. The building blocks are being set: now it’s a race between innovation, regulation, and adoption.