Unchained Podcast: The Chopping Block – OM’s Collapse, Vitalik’s Morality Test, & Tariff Chaos

Episode 819 | April 17, 2025
Host: Laura Shin
Panelists: Haseeb Qureshi, Tom Schmidt, Tarun Chitra, Robert Leshner

Overview

In this lively insider roundtable, Laura Shin is joined by four heavyweights in crypto investing and development to dissect three hot-button topics: the tumultuous Trump tariff regime and its ripple effects on crypto, the dramatic collapse of Mantra (OM) and what it reveals about token markets, and Vitalik Buterin’s recent “morality” claims that reignited culture wars across crypto Twitter. Expect candid takes, industry wit, and no-nonsense breakdowns of the latest crypto controversies.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Tariff Turmoil: Trump’s 90-Day Reversal and Crypto’s Place in Macro Turmoil

• Tariff “Show”: Haseeb breaks down Trump’s start-stop tariff policies: initial escalation (up to 145% tariffs on China), followed by a surprising 90-day pause. The result has been confusion, market volatility, and a wait-and-see mentality across asset classes—including crypto.
  • “It’s a human hurricane. It’s unpredictable.” — Tom (07:04)
• Market Impact: Global economic uncertainty has dented confidence everywhere. While crypto markets have rebounded off lows, confidence in alts remains weak.
• Bullish for Bitcoin?
  • Robert argues that distrust in the US monetary order is “generally bullish, Bitcoin as a neutral asset, that we've never really seen it play out in the midst of a global economic battle” (05:37).
  • Tom compares the volatility and uncertainty to the COVID market shock: “When there’s uncertainty, you want to take your chips off the table...” (06:12)
• Negotiation Analysis: Panelists riff on the poor “game theory” of the US’s trade war tactics and how lack of leveraged negotiation is backfiring.
  • Tarun: “We walked into this kind of like knife fight with a butter knife.” (10:11)
• Capital Flight & Policy Risks: Haseeb points out the U.S. is experiencing capital flight (declining stocks, Treasuries, and dollar). The uncertainty is freezing producers and may force the Fed to intervene with liquidity, which could be indirectly bullish for crypto. (12:27–13:35)

2. Mantra (OM) Implosion: Low Float, Shady Listings, and Market Manipulation

• What Happened? Mantra (OM), a relatively unknown token with an explosive rise, crashed 90% in 90 minutes, wiping billions in market cap. The collapse was traced to forced liquidations in a token with extremely low float and suspected self-dealing. (18:18–19:21)
• Opaque Tokenomics:
  • Haseeb explains CoinGecko/CoinMarketCap rely heavily on self-reported float figures, which OM appears to have abused by misrepresenting circulating supply and creating fake volume. (20:21–21:10)
  • “When CoinGecko or CoinMarketCap ask you, hey, how much of the tokens are currently circulating? They literally just ask you.” — Haseeb (19:32)
• Market Making & Manipulation: Tarun highly recommends the Coffeezilla interview with the OM founder: “Dude sounds hella guilty.” (21:17)
• Cosmos Caution: Tarun laments Cosmos’s ecosystem history with problematic projects: “Anytime people who are Cosmos devs are shilling a chain, I'm like, you should be shorting it...” (23:10)
• Red Flags for Retail: Tom: “You can also just look at the chain—thing has like no volume, no TVL, like, no use...and it's trading at like 10 billion FDV. Like, use your head.” (24:43)
• Ghost Chain Tickers: Panelists joke about “reverse takeovers” where dead tokens with Binance or Coinbase listings are resurrected by new teams looking for cheap listings. (25:27–26:28)
• Preventative Solutions:
  • Haseeb floats the idea: require public disclosure of all market making agreements for token listings to curb future market manipulation scandals. (29:29–30:10)
  • Robert: “The more information that's out there, the better because you'll get a better allocation of capital to the real projects…” (31:16)
  • Tarun plays devil’s advocate, warning about “market equilibrium” and potential for new bucket-shop exchanges to simply list shady tokens out of reach of these norms. (32:49–39:00)
• Regulation vs. Market Norms:
  • The panel debates if a disclosure regime should be industry self-regulation (led by Binance/Coinbase) or formal regulation. Consensus: a top exchange could force the shift; others believe true equilibrium needs regulatory force.
• Big Picture: Most agree this is not a problem with the top 100 tokens, but some “armageddon-level errors” in token listing practices could and should be fixed for overall industry health.

3. Vitalik’s Morality Test: Should L1s Have “Good Taste” in Apps?

• Vitalik’s Statement: In a Farcaster “cast,” Vitalik Buterin questioned whether blockchain L1s should possess and express “good” social philosophy in picking which apps to prioritize or celebrate. He provided examples:
  • Good: Railgun, Farcaster, Polymarket, Signal
  • Bad: Pump Fun, Terraftx
• Panel Reactions:
  • Tarun notes that Solana and BASE communities united in disagreeing with Vitalik’s denigration of “pump fun”-type applications, highlighting cultural divides.
  • “I don't think Vitalik has ever had good taste in apps. The stuff that he cites...are like generally bad.” — Tom (49:43)
  • Many panelists see this kerfuffle as a tempest in a teapot, since what succeeds on-chain hinges more on community culture and PMF than founder attitudes.
  • Robert: “As an app developer...the moralizing doesn't matter to me and I honestly don't pay that much attention to it. And I think it's a little bit irrelevant.” (51:42)
• Founders, Ideology & Legacy:
  • Haseeb offers perspective, praising Vitalik’s consistency as an “intellectual godfather,” not a CEO: “He would have said this five years ago. He would have said it today. He’ll say it again in five years.” (53:08)
  • “I'm going to respect that guy for as long as he's walking on this earth. But that doesn't mean I'm going to take product direction from him. And nor should you.” — Haseeb (55:36)
• Memorable Quote:
  • “I'm sure Tim Berners-Lee wasn't a huge Pornohub guy either. It's okay if Vitalik doesn't like pump.fun.” – Tom, relaying Bingy's tweet (55:56)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the OM Crash & Token Listings:

  • “This token, despite going all the way up to five bucks, crashed 90% in 90 minutes on Sunday...wiping out billions of dollars in market cap in the span of less than an hour.” — Haseeb (18:18)
  • “Dude sounds hella guilty. Dude sounds hella guilty.” — Tarun, re: OM founder post-mortem interview (21:17)

• On Tariff Madness:

  • “We walked into this kind of like knife fight with a butter knife.” — Tarun (10:11)
  • “It’s a human hurricane. It’s unpredictable.” — Tom (07:04)
  • “Some of the damage has already been done...Even if we completely reverted back to...tariffless trade with China… there's going to be lingering distrust.” — Robert (05:45)

• On Crypto Exchange Listing Reforms:

  • “The more information that's out there, the better because you'll get a better allocation of capital to the real projects and less capital allocated to the bad projects.” — Robert (31:16)
  • “The answer is Binance. If Binance does it, the whole industry will shift…” — Haseeb (41:14)

• On L1 Morality and Leader Influence:

  • “He’s the elder statesman in the industry. That doesn't mean he has to approve of your project....It’s totally fine with that.” — Haseeb (56:04)

• Final Words on Building in Crypto:

  • “If you went all in to go build a startup in crypto...you have much bigger problems than like, oh, Vitalik said something on Forecaster that maybe is mildly upsetting if you really think about it super hard.” — Haseeb (52:49)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:42] - Trump’s Tariff Reversal Breakdown
• [05:21] - Bullish Case for Bitcoin Amid Trade Wars
• [12:27] - Market Freeze and Capital Flight Warnings
• [17:11] - OM/Mantra: What the Hell Happened?
• [19:32] - How CMC & CoinGecko Are Fooled by Token Float
• [21:17] - Coffeezilla’s Interview with OM Founder
• [29:29] - Proposed Fix: Public Market Making Agreement Disclosures
• [44:40] - Vitalik’s Farcaster “Morality Test” Explained
• [49:43] - Tom on Vitalik's App Taste
• [51:42] - Builders' Perspective: Ignore the Moralizing
• [53:08] - Haseeb on Vitalik’s Consistency and Role in Ethereum

Conclusion

The episode featured deep dives into:

• Macro chaos and why Bitcoin might benefit from the loss of US monetary credibility
• How opaque token metrics, float manipulation, and tame listing standards undermine retail trust
• The ongoing struggle between pragmatic, culture-driven app development and L1 founders’ moral ambitions

Despite the circus around headlines, the core message was pragmatic—don’t get distracted by noise, seek disclosure and transparency, and don’t let a blockchain founder’s tweet cloud your own judgment or innovation.

Next Live Event:
Catch The Chopping Block live on April 25th at Cornell Tech, US Innovation in Crypto Conference. See show notes for details.