Unchained – Bits + Bips: "Why Bitcoin Isn't Acting as Digital Gold & International Stocks Are Winning"

Date: January 21, 2026
Host: Laura Shin
Guests: Chris Perkins (President, CoinFund), Rahm Alawalia (Illumina), David Dong (Global Head of Research, Coinbase), Austin

Episode Overview

This episode, hosted by Chris Perkins, gathers a panel of thought leaders from crypto and macro finance to explore why Bitcoin is not behaving as "digital gold" amid ongoing geopolitical tensions, and why international stocks are outperforming US equities. They contextualize these changes within major political moves (such as the Trump administration’s push to buy Greenland), regulatory developments in crypto, and technological advances like the NYSE’s move towards on-chain trading and 24/7 markets. The discussion is candid, at times irreverent and deeply analytical, blending market insights, policy debates, and historical analogies.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Crypto Market Structure Bill and Regulatory Uncertainty

[02:27-14:26]

• Coinbase’s Withdrawal from the Market Structure Bill:

  • Chris Perkins recaps Coinbase’s dramatic public withdrawal of support from the bill, criticizing its “unworkable” nature and highlighting the fragile political coalition around crypto regulation.
  • David Dong elaborates on Coinbase’s stance, citing six fundamental concerns around stablecoins, regulatory jurisdiction (SEC vs. CFTC), and overall consumer/investor protection.

    “We’re not going to compromise on what we think isn’t going to be good for our consumers, isn’t going to be good for the industry.” — David [06:41]

• Political & Structural Gridlock:

  • Austin stresses the complexity of the bill due to the intersection of interests from banks, crypto industry, regulators, retailers, and anti-financial crime advocates, and the consistent relitigation of previously settled issues.
  • Rahm points out entrenched opposition from small/community banks, who see stablecoins as threats (despite evidence to the contrary), and that political tiebreakers like Rep. French Hill tend to side with banking incumbents.

    “The small banks have convinced themselves that stablecoins are a significant threat to their deposit base. I'm going to be the first person to tell you that is factually false.” — Austin [08:31]

• Senate & Political Dynamics:

  • Chris is “bullish” on some progress, noting that the main obstacles are political rather than policy-based: Democrats’ association of crypto with Trump; fundamental regulatory questions; and whether enough flexibility will be granted to regulators post-Chevron deference.

    “From a policy perspective we can get there. I'm not sure we can get there from a political perspective.” — Chris Perkins [13:17]

• Market Impact of Regulatory Clarity:

  • David: Even if a bill passes, the market hasn’t priced in the possible winners and losers. There’s uncertainty about what sectors (DeFi, equity, tokens) will benefit.

    “Even if we do see a market structure bill...I think the market hasn’t priced it in yet.”— David [14:45]

  • Rahm: Skeptical of "a wall of institutional capital" waiting for clarity; sees rotation to new high-beta stocks (space, defense) over crypto.

  • Chris: Counters that large allocators (pensions, endowments) wait for regulatory certainty to commit significant capital.

    “There’s a lot of buyers that haven't been able to access these markets because they have risks that they're just not comfortable taking…” — Chris Perkins [17:35]

2. Geopolitics: Trump’s Push for Greenland & Impact on Markets

[24:07-39:03]

• Why Greenland?

  • Chris and Rahm assert that Trump is serious about acquiring Greenland as both a strategic and legacy move, with markets reacting negatively due to uncertainty over tariffs, EU retaliation, and global trade deals.
  • Rahm: Investors are all-in, positioning is long, and international stocks are expected to outperform US equities.

    “There's no one off the sidelines now. So the positioning is long. So I'd expect that international stocks will continue to outperform.” — Rahm [25:41]

• Bitcoin’s Behavior During Geopolitical Turmoil:

  • David: Bitcoin is not trading like digital gold amid uncertainty; gold continues upward while Bitcoin remains sluggish, reflecting a structural dislocation from last year’s market aberrations.

    “The digital gold narrative just didn’t look very convincing...Gold continues to swing better because of these geopolitical developments. And Bitcoin just can't catch up.” — David [28:02]

• US-Europe Alliance Fraying:

  • Austin and Rahm discuss how moves around Greenland reflect broader cracks in Europe-US alliances, especially as Europe courts China and criticizes the US.

    “Are we allies with Europe? And I think that is a question that was taken for granted for a long time, but has really started to fray recently.” — Austin [31:45]

• Stablecoin Dollarization vs. De-dollarization Trends:

  • Panelists agree stablecoin adoption is likely to accelerate, with individuals in countries like China and Europe opting for dollars, even if their governments seek alternatives.

    “You could have a world where the governments of nations are trying to get away from the US dollar. At the same time their citizens are opting into the US dollar.” — Austin [37:40]

3. International vs. US Equities: Rotations and Outperformance

[39:07-42:49]

• Rahm: International stocks, including those from Mexico, Brazil, Germany, France, South Korea, and Vietnam, are handily outperforming the S&P 500, with outperformance trends seen after previous tech busts.
• David: US equities aren’t “bad,” but sentiment and performance are overshadowed by international momentum and geopolitical stances (e.g., tariffs make it harder for non-US asset managers to justify US holdings).

  “It's not just...‘Hey, what the hell's going on in the US, Maybe I want to just buy back home.’ There's also probably a sentiment issue of like how do you justify to your...investor base when [the] US is putting on large tariffs?” — David [41:14]

4. Wall Street Goes On-Chain: NYSE’s Tokenization Push

[43:56-53:42]

• NYSE Develops On-Chain Platform:

  • Austin highlights NYSE's collaboration with ICE to build an on-chain settlement platform for equities and ETFs, with potential for 24/7 trading.

    “All of this of course is pending regulatory approval. But I can tell you the SEC is actually working in good faith to approve these kinds of things.” — Austin [43:56]

• Fintech and Incumbent Co-option:

  • Rahm laments that legacy institutions are co-opting digital asset technology, “taking the cherry” after crypto startups did the heavy lifting.

    “Digital assets was about how do you shake up legacy financial institutions? We're not seeing that. We're seeing legacy financial institutions adopt blockchain technology.” — Rahm [47:07]

• Customer Relationship Is Everything:

  • Austin: Crypto failed by not building for mass users; now incumbents with existing customer bases can reap the benefits.

    “The single most important thing in business, period, full stop, is who controls the customer relationship.” — Austin [48:18]

• Optimism for On-Chain Future:

  • David calls this a “legitimizing moment,” seeing on-chain trading, even by traditional players, as validation of blockchain’s promise.

    “This is another kind of watershed moment...future of finance will be on chain.” — David [49:38]

• Opportunities Still Exist:

  • Rahm and Austin discuss the importance of focusing on underserved markets (small business capital, creator economy, payment modernization) instead of battling incumbents head-on.

    “The opportunity isn't to say, let me go do what BlackRock does better...the opportunities [are] around the underserved niche markets.” — Rahm [53:46]

5. Fed Chair Drama, Rate Cuts, and Macro Policy

[59:15-67:43]

• Fed Leadership Uncertainty:

  • Trump administration’s indecisive Fed nominations (Hassett vs. Warsh) are unsettling markets.
  • Rahm: Markets expected dovish Hassett, but now face the possibility of a hawkish Warsh, leading to further uncertainty.

    “Now you rug pull me and tell me Kevin Warsh is going to be the new Fed chair. It doesn't make sense.” — Rahm [59:59]

• Disconnection Between Economy & Fed Policy:

  • David notes the labor market is weakening, productivity is up due to AI and efficiency, and the Fed's dual mandate makes its job uniquely hard.

    “Companies in our economy are doing a lot better than most people in the labor market...That’s also contributing to a disinflationary trend that we haven’t recognized.” — David [60:26]

• Interest Rates & US Debt:

  • Austin articulates that rate mechanics have changed with high US debt levels:

    “A variable that nobody currently discusses much is the outstanding amount of current government debt...There are frameworks in which it's very possible that rate cuts are disinflationary and rate increases are inflationary.” — Austin [64:11]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Austin on Crypto's Narrow User Focus:

  “Nobody stopped to ask, hey, can normal people use our stuff? ...The reason that you could have a company like NYSE...step into this space and dominate, is that nobody... went out into the world and got people to use it.” [48:18]

• David on Market Structure Bill Unrealized Impact:

  “If a bill does get passed, markets still have an even reckoning with who does this actually benefit, which tokens does this benefit...I think the market hasn’t priced it in yet.” [14:45]

• Rahm on International Rotation:

  “The last time we saw emerging market outperformance versus United States... was in the aftermath of the dot com bust and when it leads US stocks by a year it continues.” [40:20]

• Chris on Regulatory Uncertainty:

  “It’s Max uncertainty right now. We have no idea what's going to happen with tariffs in the Supreme Court. We've got Greenland going on. We've got all types of craziness happening.” [63:33]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Coinbase Market Structure Bill Withdrawal & Political Gridlock — [02:27-14:26]
• Does Regulatory Clarity Unlock Institutional Capital? — [14:45-21:32]
• Trump, Greenland, and Risks for Global Markets — [24:07-39:03]
• Why Isn’t Bitcoin Acting Like Digital Gold? — [27:49-30:17]
• US-Europe Fractures and Stablecoin Dollarization — [31:45-39:03]
• International vs US Equities: The New Rotation — [39:07-42:49]
• NYSE Tokenization and Wall Street On-Chain — [43:56-53:42]
• Opportunities in Fintech and Crypto — [54:57-58:03]
• Fed Chair, Rate Drama, & Macro Policy — [59:15-67:43]

Conclusion

This episode packs a panoramic analysis of crypto’s uneasy marriage with traditional finance and global macro. It ranges from the arcana of legislative infighting and regulatory risk to sweeping observations about the future of money and capital markets. Throughout, the hosts blend skepticism, optimism, and hard data, offering listeners a nuanced map of macro+crypto’s evolving terrain — from stablecoins’ dual-use paradox to the global rotation away from US assets, and from Bitcoin’s gold bug woes to the mass adoption struggles Blockchain still faces.

Who should listen: Anyone trying to understand the intersection of crypto, policy, and global finance, and why the next big moves in markets might not be where you expect.