Seth Gins (3:04)

Thanks for having me, Laura.

Laura Shin (3:06)

This week the world went through the same kind of rollercoaster that crypto generally goes through on the regular. At the moment we're recording on Thursday and the markets are plunging for the second time this week. But on Wednesday they were surging. All of these gyrations got kicked off last week with Trump's announcement of imminent tariffs, though the full impact on the markets continue to play out early this week before he reversed course on at least some of the plans. So why don't you give us the recap of the events this week, how the market reacted and why you think Trump reversed his own stance from last week.

Seth Gins (3:42)

Yeah, thanks Laura. So I think if we start on Saturday. Saturday was the implementation of the first part of the tariffs that were announced in the Rose garden that was 10% across the board. And then Wednesday of this week was the announcement of when we were going to have the additional tariffs put on and we had a ratcheting up of tariffs that were put on China throughout the week. And come Wednesday we ended up having tariffs put on and then an announcement early in the day or actually midday east coast time that there was going to be a 90 day pause on the implementation of tariffs over the initial amount for everyone except for China. And for China we were going to have 125% tariffs put into place. And then actually on Thursday there was an amendment to that saying actually it's not 125, it's 145%. So now what did the market do through that whole process? The market as we approached midnight on Wednesday morning was showing more and more signs of stress. So as we were in the pre implementation period for the additional tariffs, you saw a bunch of market indicators showing that there was emerging stress across equities, across credit markets. And crypto markets were also showing that stress. And we had a big down day on Tuesday. On Wednesday we opened with what looked like a good amount of weakness. And part of what was driving that was again these stress indicators really showing flashing red and sending a signal to the administration that things were starting to to break. And we've gotten some recaps now of what was happening behind the scenes and they were watching the credit indicators very closely. This administration has talked about how they're very focused on getting the 10 year yield down. There's a lot of credit refinancing that we have to do as the US in the back half of this year, actually starting right about now. And we actually saw an immense amount of volatility in treasury yields as we approach the implementation deadline at midnight Wednesday morning. That caught the President's attention as well as advice from a number of people in business and within the administration around him that pointed to the need to drive negotiations rather than implement the full tariffs. And that was what was announced midday on Wednesday. And we got a big relief rally when the 90 day reprieve for negotiations was put in place.

Laura Shin (6:42)

Yeah, the whole thing was definitely just very head spinning. All of this chaos hit crypto prices as well, a little belatedly though initially on Liberation Day when Trump announced the tariffs, Bitcoin dropped from the high 80 thousands to the low 80 thousands, which a lot of people, you know, remarked it was holding up better than expected. On Monday though, it did finally plunge along with the rest of the market to below 75k at one point. Although after Trump announced the 90 day pause, it jumped back up above 80k. But at the time we're recording, it is now back below 80k at 79k. So. So why do you think this tariff news has affected crypto so much? Because there was this idea that, you know, tariff was crypto immune or, sorry, crypto was tariff immune. So like, why do you think it's, it's hitting crypto?

Seth Gins (7:34)

Yeah. The most straightforward answer is when, when you have equities and credit being affected by macro uncertainty, it's really hard for, for crypto to avoid it. There's a part of bitcoin's price that is driven by this idea of store of value gold. But there's also a part of it that reflects the fact that it's early in its life cycle, it's secular growth and it has periods of time and an element of its trading that's tied to the nasdaq, that's tied to risk on factors. And then broader crypto very much is early stage tech investing and high beta exposure to what's happening in tech equity. So that, that's why when you see an environment historically where bitcoin is holding up, but equities and credit are showing a lot of volatility, the odds on bet is that bitcoin will catch up. The time when that doesn't tend to happen is when you're deep into the drawdown and you might be seeing bitcoin signal that we're starting to hit an inflection point, but that's usually after we've had a bunch of stimulative announcements, not still relatively early in people assessing the risks in the market and relatively early in the drawdown.

Laura Shin (8:55)

And so at this point where we still have these 10% tariffs across the board, except for China, the steeper tariffs are paused for 90 days. What are you looking at to kind of forecast where the markets will go during that time? Are there any specific, I don't know, metrics or even political signs that you're going to be weighing?

Seth Gins (9:17)

I think there are a few things to think about. I think what we're looking for in this type of environment is what are the big overarching dynamics, what are the messages that we're starting to see come together? And one of those I think is stimulus is coming. So when there was the ratcheting up of tariffs on China, we immediately started to see commentary out of the press in China about more stimulus. So obviously when China does stimulus, it has a big impact globally and we're seeing that start to roll out on a broader basis. We're not seeing it yet from the Fed, but the US Will be in on that game relatively quickly. So stimulus is coming is big point number one. And then number two is we weren't sure if there was a point where the Trump administration was going to step in and kind of change their positioning in order to protect the market. And, and we, we started to tease out what those contours are, what elements of markets breaking are top of mind for them and trigger a response. And what we saw was when treasury volatility really starts to, to pick up, that's kind of their line in the sand where, where they'll step in and start to, to, to try to drive policy changes that, that can cushion the market. So again, two key messages that, that we got out of the last few days. Stimulus is coming and, and there is a Trump put on the market. New information for both of those. And when we combine that with the fact that policy has been so positive for crypto year to date, obviously with macro clouds kind of not letting that positive policy shine through quite yet in prices and then fundamentals, institutional engagement and adoptions really starting to come together, I think we, we can kind of see the light at the end of the tunnel in the medium to long term. But you don't need to rush there, right? Let, let the dust settle, let the, the actual tariff implementation come into play play see what comes out of these bilateral negotiations. But, but we think the there's a little bit of a, the the what the end state looks like with stimulus, with a backstop that that's coming together. And it's very different from 22, where the Fed was very clear that they had one objective which was getting inflation down and they were willing to let the economy really go deep into a recession if needed to do that. We're seeing that the contours of this dynamic are different.

Laura Shin (12:10)

Okay, so in a moment we're going to talk a little bit about where we think that things will go for the rest of year in the markets. But first, a quick word for the sponsors who make this show possible. BitKey is the only Bitcoin wallet on Time magazine's best inventions list of 2024. Built by the team behind Square and Cash App, BitKey is a 2 of 3 multi signature wallet and the first hardware wallet with an innovative recovery suite that eliminates the need for seed phrases in self custody. Their new inheritance feature means BitKey's not just the easiest way to self custody your bitcoin. It's the easiest way to ensure it ends up in the hands of loved ones when it's time for it to leave yours. Learn more at BitKey World BitKey World use code UNCHAINED for 20% off the crypto market just got wrecked by billions in liquidations. You need to figure out what happened and what's next. But where do you even start? Meet Focal by Falcon X, your AI powered crypto analyst. It's like having a legion of experts at your fingertips ready to break down market moving events, Chart DeFi protocol TVL or explain why Solana Mindshare is rising. Get clarity in a world of noise with Focal. Learn more@askfocal.com we have another listener comment Responding to my interview with Arthur Hayes on Farcaster, Antar writes, quote, must admit I faded his strong conviction that Trump's inauguration was the top and that they would engineer a financial crisis. Those who acted on that hunch can now go on a shopping spree in the bargain basement again. If you want to hear your comment featured on the show, please write a review or leave a comment on an episode on YouTube X or Foraster. Back to my conversation with Seth so when you mentioned that there's stimulus coming, the way I hear that coded in crypto terms is a bull market's coming. You know, Arthur Hayes was recently on the show and he, you know, basically always talks about how he just looks at how much money there is really basically for what the crypto market's going to do so are you saying that like people should be bullish?

Seth Gins (14:26)

Well, I think in the short run people should be cautious. I don't think you want to be too aggressive right now. But yes, I think when you look at lead indicators and lead indicators can be global M2 so monetary base is showing that we, we should have a tailwind for crypto in the relative near term. When you look at the signs of stress in the market right now, and I'll throw out a bunch of different indicators, but whether it's the VIX which shows you the stress in the equities market, whether it's the move index which shows you the stress in the Treasury's market, when you look at forward returns on a 30, 60, 90 day basis from when, when those indicators are showing the level of stress that they're showing now, they're quite positive. And, and the same should flow through for, for bitcoin and probably broader crypto as well. So whether that's today, tomorrow, later this week, that that's something where there's a lot of volatility in the market right now and I don't think you want to make that short term of a call. But when you're looking out any meaningful amount of time, the setup actually looks quite strong. And then the question is from there, is it a high bitcoin dominance environment? So is it a rebound where bitcoin rebounds and the rest of crypto is still kind of lagging and waiting for a enough stimulus to, to start moving higher or do we really get into a full on altcoin season? And I'd say given where market stress is right now, the types of responses that we'll likely see from the Fed, from the administration and again from governments abroad, that would point to we're getting close to that transition where altcoins really start to take off. And it would be ironic because that's coming after a number of headlines just a month or two ago saying is this the crypto cycle with no altcoin cycle?

Laura Shin (16:32)

Wait. So you think there will be an altcoin season still?

Seth Gins (16:36)

I do. I think the question of whether the first move is just bitcoin or broad based, that's still yet to be settled. But I think the way things are breaking, the amount of pressure that we're seeing across the markets, equity, credit and on a global basis right now, I think it points to a condition that would allow for altcoins to do very well in the medium to long term.

Laura Shin (17:06)

And just because there, there can be different definitions of Altcoins of that term, you mean anything not bitcoin or how are you defining that?

Seth Gins (17:14)

So I'm defining it as Bitcoin dominance actually starting to go down. Oh, so that would be Bitcoin's. Bitcoin's percentage of the overall market cap coming down, which has been a hallmark of altcoin seasons, where you have really good breadth across the coins outside of bitcoin. So you have a number of fundamentally driven tokens that start to outperform Bitcoin. And we've had brief periods of time where that's happened most recently right after the election. But this cycle we haven't had a sustained period of time. And you typically have a year to two years within the cycle of that playing out.

Laura Shin (17:55)

Okay, so essentially that would include L ones. And so it's not even just kind of like whatever the latest craze is.

Seth Gins (18:03)

But okay, it would, it would be. It would be both. But there's a really interesting dynamic, which is now that we have policy coming into place for crypto in the US now that we have a market structure bill coming through Congress and the expectation that the rules of the road will be clarified sometime over the next year to 18 months, we're seeing tokens that have strong fundamentals. So that's revenue growth. That's if it's earlier stage, it can be daily active users. And then also in addition to that fundamental growth, clear value capture in the token. So either buybacks or expectations for buybacks down the road, where the team has been very clear that they want the token to accrue value. I think those two elements are going to be really important in differentiating the tokens that really start to see broader adoption versus the tokens that maybe are more of a flash in the pan. They can see a big run and then they fully retrace their run. So I think there's a maturation happening in the space. It's going to be a maturation that comes around real fundamental value capture. And I think that's a huge positive for the ecosystem.

Laura Shin (19:22)

Okay, yeah, this is super interesting. You know, one other thing that I wanted to ask about because you kind of briefly alluded to this, but there's always been this thesis about bitcoin being a hedge during times of volatility like this. But as you're probably aware, the thesis has not usually been vindicated. And I wondered if you feel like now we will start to see bitcoin emerge as this safe haven asset that it's built to be.

Seth Gins (19:48)

So I think over time as it matures, there's a good chance that it does take on that digital gold factor in a much heavier way. And in particular, I mean, gold serves a lot of purposes, but in particular, the one that you're talking about, which is a safe haven in periods of time where there's a lot of volatility, a lot of concerns and uncertainty. I think right now, because it's still early in its adoption, right? I mean, obviously it's much more mature than it was five years ago, but it's still relatively early in its adoption. I think we're not quite at the same level of safe haven status as more established. And what does that mean practically? It means the number of entities around the world, including central banks, that feel like they can use gold as a safe haven in times of uncertainty is still a much deeper market than what you have for a similar type of institution for bitcoin right now. But they're converging and eventually bitcoin will get there and the risk on dynamics of bitcoin will probably be more muted, will be minimalized, while that safe haven component will be more emphasized. But that's not where we are right now. That's still early in its growth and it has this more risk on factor as a component of how the market thinks about it. One other thing I'd say is if you look at bitcoin's price versus gold, and this is just a very rough analysis, but generally speaking, when gold spikes higher, bitcoin underperforms that spike higher. And we're in the midst of a pretty big spike higher in gold right now. But then as gold settles at that new level, that's when you have a big step up in bitcoin. And that kind of makes sense because right now gold is spiking higher because of all this uncertainty and fear. But what we're saying is the response to that uncertainty and fear is going to be stimulus and money printing. And that's really the tailwind as that uncertainty comes down and the certainty around the money printing comes up. That's really bitcoin and crypto's big tailwind, the. The market regime where it does quite well.

Laura Shin (22:14)

And actually, one last question about what you were saying earlier about like, stimulus and stuff like that. Do you think that that's only going to happen in a world where the, the tariffs continue to be on the table or be implemented? Or do you feel like if, for whatever reason, because you know, Trump really could truly do literally anything, like, do you think if he completely backs off from his stance and everything goes back to how it was, you know, before January twent. Like, do you feel like the stimulus, what do you think would happen then? Would we still see stimulus? Or is that predicated on this notion that the tariffs will wreak havoc?

Seth Gins (22:51)

So it's a, it's a question of degree. So in the background, we have governments around the world running deficits. They're going to have to stimulate in order to so print money to fund those deficits over time. So that's the reason why there's this long term secular bull case for crypto for Bitcoin that doesn't involve tariffs and wrecking havoc globally and fear and uncertainty. But when we look at what's happening right now, there's a question of how, how much is this hurting risk appetite? And that's not just market risk appetite, but that's risk appetite from CEOs around the world to invest in their businesses. Is this driving us into a recession? Is this driving us into a depression? How long do the tariffs have to stay out there in order to drive us into a recession? Right, if, if they're all repealed quickly, the damage will probably be less severe than if they're kept in place longer. Obviously there are nuances to all of this. These are not reciprocal tariffs. They, they're more holistic negotiating tactics. So how do the, the different changes that will come into play in these trade relationships, how will they affect different economies globally? So I think the first question is how much pressure is going to be put on the global economy? The second question is, are we at a point where that pressure is likely to result in a response? And then from a policy perspective, and then the third really important question is, will that response be effective? Because if you remember in the global financial crisis in 07 08, we had a number of responses that were too early and not significant enough. And we got a little bit of a rally and then the market went down again. And when the market crashes again and you see stress indicate indicators increase, that's the market trying to elicit more of a stimulative response. So I think you have to ask, are we likely to get a response? I think the answer as of a few days ago is yes. We now are starting to see the contours of how we get that. Will it be enough? Well, that, that's really the what it will be. And will it be enough is really what we're trying to prosecute in the market today. Because the market is starting to say, I'm not sure that the response is enough yet. And that kind of gets to the heart of your question.

Laura Shin (25:28)

Okay, well, last question. The crypto industry was, at least financially, a huge factor in pushing the red wave in Congress. They definitely played a notable role in getting Trump himself elected. There were, you know, a bunch of notable people in crypto who, you know, were even switching sides. They said that they were longtime Democrats that were going to vote for him. When you take into account every, everything that Trump has done in crypto, you know, you mentioned, well, it's not, I guess it's not necessarily Trump, but you understand, like the new administration ranging from regulations, but even, of course, including things like his meme coins, the Trump family's involvement in World Liberty Financial. But then, you know, on the other hand, the things like the strategic bitcoin reserve, et cetera, do you feel like overall he has been a positive for the space or not?

Seth Gins (26:17)

So obviously the space right now is being hit really hard by the macro dynamics, and those are very much Trump policy. So. But let's set aside macro and just talk about the things that have happened for crypto. I would say the administration has delivered about 150% more than I would have expected. And I was fairly optimistic about the changes that we were going to see. So that's across changes in the executive branch. That's across what the SEC has done even before having the new commissioner, Paul Atkins, confirmed just a few days ago. But lots of momentum there, dropping cases that were against the good actors in the industry, very quickly pushing the legislative agenda, the initiation of discussions around a strategic bitcoin reserve. So I think a lot has been delivered in record time. But, but that's been overshadowed in the short run by what's happening with tariffs and macro. And that, that's one of the reasons why I think it's, it's reasonable to be very positive on the medium to long term because as these macro clouds part, you're left with a really powerful framework for a crypto industry that can thrive and be much bigger without the headwinds of government. Actually having government kind of be on the sidelines and letting traditional finance, traditional businesses be comfortable, engaging and really bringing a vibrant developer community back to the.

Laura Shin (28:01)

U.S. all right, great. Well, it has been a super fun unpacking this really wild week with you. Thank you so much for coming on.

Seth Gins (28:08)

And chained, thanks for having me.

Laura Shin (28:11)

Don't forget, next up is the weekly news recap today presented by WonderCraft AI stick around for this week in crypto after this short break. Mantle is revolutionizing its on chain financial hub powered by a $4 billion treasury and proven products like Mantle Network and Meath Protocol. Mantle is launching three Innovation Enhanced Index Fund for optimized crypto exposure, Mantle Banking for for blockchain powered banking and Mantle X for AI driven innovation. Experience the future of finance with Mantle and follow Mantle on X to stay tuned.

Crypto News Host (28:46)

Welcome to this week's Crypto roundup. In today's recap, we cover Circle's possible IPO delay amid market turbulence, Tether's plans for a US Only stablecoin and Paul Atkins confirmation as SEC chair. We'll also look at the DOJ's surprise crypto enforcement rollback, a congressional probe in Argentina over the Libra MEM Coin scandal and Galaxy Digital's push to list on NASDAQ. Plus Ripple makes a $1.25 billion move into prime brokerage world Liberty Financial dumps ETH at a loss and Conor McGregor's meme coin fails to land thanks for tuning in to the weekly news recap. Let's begin. Circle may delay IPO Circle, the company behind the $60 billion USDC stablecoin, is reportedly reconsidering the timing of its public offering amid growing market instability triggered by policy. Just days after filing an S1 registration with the SEC, sources told the Wall Street Journal that Circle is closely monitoring conditions and may postpone the listing depending on how markets respond to escalating tariffs introduced by the Trump administration. The filing disclosed $1.68 billion in revenue for 2024, alongside $156 million in net income. Analysts also noted that Coinbase, its largest distribution partner, likely earns more from USDC than Circle itself. What I found was a business with real reach but also deep fragility, wrote former Coinbase product director Rishi Dean. Circle isn't alone. Firms like the online brokerage Etoro is said to be reevaluating IPO plans as uncertainty across public markets continues to grow. The company has not officially commented on any delay. Additionally, ticket broker StubHub and buy now Pay later pioneer Klarna have officially delayed their planned IPOs this year. Tetherise US only stablecoin Tether is exploring the creation of a US exclusive stablecoin, signaling a potential pivot in strategy as American regulators push for stricter oversight of foreign crypto issuers. CEO Paolo Arduino said the company has been involved in policy talks and may develop a dollar pegged token designed specifically for domestic use. If new rules support stablecoin innovation, such a product would act as a transaction focused settlement currency aligned with evolving federal standards, Arduino noted. The Trump administration views stablecoins as a key financial tool within the US System. Meanwhile, Binance is expanding its product line with ldusdt, a new asset allowing users to trade crypto futures while earning yield on previously locked usdt. This dual purpose token builds on the platform's prior release of BFUSD and aims to boost flexibility for over 10 million binary finance earn participants. LDUSDT increases capital efficiency, said VP Jeff Lee, highlighting the benefit of merging liquidity with passive rewards. Paul Atkins confirmed as SEC Chair the US Senate confirmed Paul Atkins as chairman of the securities and Exchange Commission in a 52:44 vote, largely along party lines on Wednesday evening. A former SEC commissioner under President George W. Bush, Atkins was nominated by President Trump and is widely seen as a proponent of reducing regulatory friction, particularly in the digital asset space. Atkins is expected to formalize several crypto policy changes already underway during the Trump administration's interim leadership. These include narrowing the SEC's oversight of areas like stablecoins, meme coins, and proof of work mining. I sat down with Mr. Atkins to discuss digital asset legislation. I'm confident his leadership will bring positive changes, sen. Cynthia Lummis posted on X following the confirmation. Adkins takes over from Marcujeda, who led a sweeping overhaul in early 2025 that rolled back many high profile enforcement actions. He begins his term with an incomplete commission as two Democratic seats remain vacant. DOJ dismantles cryptounit the U.S. department of justice is halting enforcement actions against crypto platforms such as mixers and wallets, marking a major policy shift under the Trump administration. In a memo titled Ending Regulation by Prosecution, deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche stated that services like Tornado Cash would no longer be held liable for how users employ them, even in cases of illicit activity. The department will now focus solely on pursuing individuals and groups directly involved in unlawful financing. Investigations inconsistent with this new guidance should be closed, blanche wrote, adding that all conflicting policies were rescinded effective immediately. As part of the same directive, the DOJ has also disbanded the National Cryptocurrency Enforcement Team, a unit formed in 2021 to tackle crypto related crimes. The move aligns with President Trump's January executive order promoting regulatory clarity and a lighter federal approach to digital assets. DOJ prosecutors were told the agency is not a digital assets regulator. This news comes approximately two weeks after Unchained reported that the DOJ was a holdout among government regulatory bodies such as the sec, FDIC and OCC in not changing its policies toward crypto. Argentina launches congressional probe into Libra scandal Argentina's Chamber of Deputies has approved three draft resolutions to investigate government officials tied to the controversial Libra meme coin project, which collapsed shortly after receiving public support from President Javier Milei. The resolutions call for a formal inquiry commission, the summoning of senior executive officials, including the chief of staff and ministers of Economy and justice, and an official report on the matter from the government. The Solana based Libra token launched in February and briefly surged to a $2 billion valuation after Milei promoted it online, claiming it would support small businesses. The token later crashed by over 90%, prompting accusations of fraud and calls for Miley's impeachment. Kelsier Ventures CEO Hayden Davis, who claimed to advise Milei on the project, is also under scrutiny. Davis is reportedly also linked to the Melania meme coin, which recently saw $30 million in community funds moved without explanation. An Argentine prosecutor has requested an Interpol red notice for Davis. Galaxy Digital prepares for Nasdaq listing Galaxy Digital is set to become the latest crypto firm to list on NASDAQ following U.S. regulatory clearance of its registration documents. The SEC declared effective the company's reorganization filing, paving the way for a shareholder vote on May 9. If approved, Galaxy will shift its corporate headquarters from the Cayman Islands to Delaware and list under the ticker symbol glxy. The move comes as other crypto firms such as Circle and eToro pause IPO plans due to ongoing market volatility tied to trade policy uncertainty. Galaxy, however, is pushing ahead, buoyed by strong 2024 financials. The company reported $346 million in profit and nearly 44 billion in trading volume, though its revenue calculation includes the full value of all crypto transactions Trump linked. Defi project dumps World Liberty Financial, the decentralized finance initiative supported by the Trump family, has begun offloading its ether holdings after sustaining significant losses on chain. Data from Arkham reveals that a wallet tied to the project sold 5471 ETH, worth approximately $8 million at a price of $1,465 per token. The assets were originally acquired at $3,259, translating into a realized loss exceeding 125 million. Despite the sell off, the wallet still retains about $98 million in digital assets, including $11.7 million in remaining ETH. The move comes just two months after Eric Trump publicly endorsed Ethan, calling it a great time to buy, when the asset traded near 2000 and 80s on the same day as the recent sale. Donald Trump echoed that sentiment on Truth Social, stating it was a great time to buy while traditional markets reeled under the strain of escalating trade tensions. Moreover, World Liberty Financial on Monday proposed a live airdrop test of its new USD1 stablecoin to the firm's early supporters on Ethereum as part of efforts to showcase the token's on chain functionality ahead of full deployment. Ripple moves into Prime Brokerage Ripple has announced a $1.25 billion agreement to acquire Hidden Road, a prime brokerage firm serving over 300 institutional clients and clearing more than 3 trillion in annual volume. The acquisition marks one of the largest in Ripple's history and further integrates the company into traditional financial infrastructure. As part of the deal, Hidden Road's operations will transition to Ripple's XRP ledger, which is expected to streamline settlement processes and reduce transaction costs. Ripple's RL USD stablecoin will also take on a central role, serving as collateral for Hidden Roads brokerage services and enabling cross margining between crypto and traditional assets. This truly brings the worlds of traditional and decentralized finance together, said Ripple CEO Brad Garlinghouse. The deal is expected to close in the coming months. Fun Bits McGregor's crypto punch misses the mark Conor McGregor may know how to land a knockout in the octagon, but his real token face planted before the bell even rang. Despite flexing it to 57 million followers between X and Instagram, the crypto project raised just 39% of its $1 million goal in a 28 hour presale. The would be meme coin, backed by Real World Gaming Dao, aimed to have a $120 million fully diluted valuation. Instead, only 668 brave souls showed up. We didn't hit our minimum, the team admitted. On X Refunds are inbound and apparently so is a comeback. Guess even in crypto you can't win em all with trash talk. And that's all. Thanks so much for joining us today. If you enjoyed this recap, go to unchained crypto.com newsletter that is unchained crypto.com newsletter and sign up for our free newsletter so that you can stay up to date with the latest in crypto. Unchained is produced by Laura Shin with help from Matt Pilchard, Juan Aranovich, Megan Gavis, Pama Joumdar and Margaret Correa. The weekly recap was written by Juan Aronovich and edited by Stephen Ehrlich.

Seth Gins (39:34)

Thanks for listening.