Podcast Summary: Unchained Ep. 898 – "Why Pokémon Cards Are Better Onchain (and How to Trade Them)"

Date: September 5, 2025
Host: Laura Shin
Guests: Tuan Pohlmberg (Founder, Collector Crypt) & Danny Nelson (Research Analyst, Bitwise)

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the emerging trend of trading physical collectibles, specifically Pokémon cards, on blockchain platforms. Laura Shin speaks first with Tuan Pohlmberg, founder of Collector Crypt, about how their on-chain marketplace transforms the Pokémon card ecosystem by solving issues around trust, liquidity, fraud, and high fees. Then, Danny Nelson from Bitwise Research contextualizes this "on-chain collectible rave" and explores why it may spearhead the mainstreaming of crypto-based real world assets (RWAs).

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Real World Problems of Collectible Trading Cards

[03:01–07:50]

• Old-School Trading: Collectors used to trade at card shops and shows, building community and trust face-to-face.

  "You'd be able to sit at a table across from somebody and talk to them about, you know, where they got the card...imprinted memory, imprinted nostalgia, imprinted childhood on these cards."
  — Tuan Pohlmberg (05:01)

• eBay & Centralized Platforms: While eBay enabled deeper liquidity, it introduced high fees (13%+), fraud risks, lack of meaningful buyer-seller interaction, and friction with international transactions.

• Fragmented Trust & Difficult Logistics: Shipping, customs, and authentication hurdles deter global trading.

2. Collector Crypt's On-Chain Solution

[07:52–23:38]

• How It Works:

  • Users send cards to vaults (no KYC, just email verification).
  • Collector Crypt authenticates cards and stores them in high-security, sales-tax-free vaults (Fanatics Collect, PSA Vault).
  • High-res scans are minted as NFTs to users' wallets; ownership can be transferred on-chain.
  • Physical card shipped to NFT owner on NFT burn/redemption.

  "We are holding this asset in escrow and authenticating it so that everybody knows that it is what it is. And then whenever somebody wants it, they burn the NFT... and we ship it out immediately."
  — Tuan (08:14)

• Trust & Security: Leveraging best-in-class vaults for custody and PSA for grading.

• No/Low Fees: Reduces traditional 13%+ transaction fees to essentially zero.

• Fraud Mitigation: Escrow model and authenticated vault custody eliminate the most common scams.

• Digital Trading Tools: Tools like the Sniper allow global crypto bidding (e.g., USDC bids sniping eBay auctions in low-liquidity regions).

  "We've done about $10 million worth of bids on eBay... winning about a million and a half dollars worth of cards for our users. That's been a really incredible piece."
  — Tuan (16:32)

• Gamified "Gotcha" Machine: A digital vending-machine where users pay (crypto) to open random card packs—modeled after popular “repack” experiences but with stronger expected value and lower cost due to crypto rails.

  "You could put $1,000 worth of funds, USDC, into the machine and probably walk away with $1,000 or even more of trading cards."
  — Tuan (21:17)

3. Intellectual Property Concerns & Legal Hygiene

[22:13–22:47]

• Collector Crypt only uses cards they own; scans are their IP. No Pokémon branding used or implied; strictly enhances collector experience.

4. The "Cards" Token and Pool Liquidity Vision

[23:38–29:33]

• Cards Token: Launched as a liquidity pool representing real card inventory, profits reinvested in acquiring more cards, supporting ecosystem growth.

• Token Utility: Potential to serve DeFi, games, lending, and even fuel partner front-ends.

• Company Model: Founders paid as developers; revenues largely reinvested; focus on decentralized network effects.

  "What we want to do is build up this liquidity pool and generate revenue... and allow people to build on top of it. You're going to see some amazing collaborations."
  — Tuan (24:10)

5. Platform & Chain Selection (Why Solana?)

[30:32–32:34]

• Chose Solana over Ethereum/Polygon due to performance, scalability, and strong NFT community.

6. Market Size & Growth Opportunity

[32:34–35:53]

• Market Size: Graded trading cards total ~$100B, with $25B–$30B/yr in turnover, exceeding volume of NFTs and meme coins.
• Growth Potential: Dramatic expansion expected as fees drop and liquidity increases—potential for asset class institutionalization and ETF-type products.

7. Roadmap & Future Features

[36:16–38:04]

• Sports Repack Machine launching soon.

• Global Pricing Oracle: Building AI-driven, robust price discovery systems to support global trading and lending.

• Aspirations: Become the central dashboard/marketplace for trading cards worldwide.

  "We want to become the global dashboard for trading cards... where people come to us first when they're searching for a price, searching for a card, or want to do gamified shopping."
  — Tuan (37:08)

Danny Nelson on Market Impact & Crypto Crossover Phenomena

[39:38–57:45]

1. Trading Cards as the "Polymarket Moment" for Crypto

[39:55–41:48]

• Comparative Framework: Like Polymarket's role for prediction markets, trading cards may be the "killer app" to cross crypto into the mainstream.
• Problems Solved: Card tokenization fixes inefficiencies in scaling, community engagement, and transfer risk.

2. What Makes Trading Cards Unique as RWAs

[42:06–43:45]

• Why Not Tokenize Stocks First? Traditional equities already have efficient rails; tokenizing trading cards is a bigger leap in efficiency for physical goods.

• Physical/Emotional Value: People's attachment to art, nostalgia, and collectibility is deeper with cards than with many stocks.

  "The reality is stocks already have a very robust trading platform... With trading cards... this is a medium that really is physical."
  — Danny (42:21)

3. "Exit Velocity" of Digital Markets

[44:11–45:22]

• Digital trading allows instant, global, frictionless trading—far greater velocity than physical markets.

• Digital experiences like the Gotcha machine successfully recreate pack opening “thrill.”

  "There was a sense of fun that could be had with the ripping of the digital packs... leads people to unboxing videos. People love that shared experience."
  — Danny (44:39)

4. Collector Crypt vs. Competitors & Community Effects

[45:22–47:55]

• Collector Crypt surged with token launch, but Courtyard is larger by total volume.
• The tech and process, not individual marketplaces, promise to revolutionize physical asset markets.

5. Revenue Models and Token Price Dynamics

[47:55–49:36]

• Current token price driven by speculation that platform revenue will eventually accrue to the token holders.
• Comparison to "Pump Fun" (Solana meme coin launchpad) where revenue buybacks impact token value.

6. ETFs, Institutionalization & Crypto Bridges

[49:36–52:19]

• While an ETF is possible, current models look more like on-chain asset-backed tokens.
• Projects like "Charizard Capital" experiment with pooling major collectible cards and tokenizing ownership.

7. Will Collectible Mania Go Mainstream—and Stay?

[52:19–54:03]

• Skeptical that Pokémon mania lasts forever, but convinced tokenization tech and liquidity will persist and expand to other assets.

• Expect more mainstream retail-facing RWA (real world asset) projects to emerge.

  “The technology that's allowing more people to trade these assets more quickly is going to stick even beyond this one moment.”
  — Danny (53:08)

8. Collateralization, DeFi, and Custody Risks

[54:03–56:09]

• Tokenized cards can become collateral for loans, enabling greater financialization (CeFi and DeFi).

• Risks: Physical custody is critical and introduces unique point-of-failure (theft, disaster).

  "With physical cards, you need to make sure they are physically safe. There's not too much of a risk of custody agents getting hacked... more about physical threat.”
  — Danny (56:09)

Notable Quotes

• "We're bringing back the tabletop, reducing the fees...and eliminating 99% of the way people defraud each other."
  — Tuan Pohlmberg (06:45)

• "We are seeing the very earliest scrape of extreme product market fit for crypto solving an issue that's been percolating in the real world for decades."
  — Tuan (07:45, 23:37, and at open)

• "If you're paying for a repack with a credit card, you're paying credit card fees, sales tax, all this stuff...all those fees get added in...with crypto, we eliminate all that."
  — Tuan (20:48)

• "There are just so many new possibilities when you bring physical assets on-chain...not just through buying and selling and speculating on it—but actually getting some value out of it while not losing it, for example using it as collateral in lending."
  — Danny Nelson (54:03)

• "The reality is that stocks already have a very robust trading platform... but with trading cards, this is a medium that really is physical..."
  — Danny (42:21)

Important Timestamps

• 03:01 – The personal, nostalgic history of collectibles & trading
• 07:52 – Collector Crypt's technical & security model
• 10:56 – Third-party vaults & authentication as backbone of trust
• 14:16 – How Collector Crypt scaled; community-first design
• 16:32 – "Sniper" tool and global USDC/eBay integration
• 18:54 – The Gotcha machine: gamification of digital trading
• 23:38 – The Card Token: liquidity pool and economic model
• 30:51 – Why Solana is Collector Crypt’s choice chain
• 32:34 – Trading card market size & economic promise
• 36:16 – Upcoming features: sports cards, price oracle
• 41:48 – Danny: Why on-chain trading cards are poised for “exit velocity”
• 44:39 – Gamifying digital collecting: the “unboxing” experience
• 47:55 – Tokens, revenue capture, and collector speculation
• 52:19 – The market’s staying power and mainstream adoption prospects
• 54:03 – RWA tokenization: Collateral, lending, and new financial primitives
• 56:09 – The security and physical custody challenge

Conclusion

By fusing airtight physical control with on-chain NFT representations and low-cost, high-velocity digital markets, Collector Crypt and similar platforms are solving the deep inefficiencies and trust issues that have slowed the trading of physical collectibles. The rise of their token models, liquidity pools, and gamified experiences could become the tipping point for mass "real world asset" adoption in crypto—ushering in new kinds of markets, financial products, and community liquidity that legacy platforms can’t match. Both guests see this as only the first of many waves, as collectibles and other physical assets finally get their "crypto moment."

For more detailed discussion, check:

• [03:01–07:50] Physical vs. digital trading origins and challenges
• [16:32] Digital repacks & Gotcha machine
• [23:38–30:51] Cards token model, network effects, Solana reasons
• [39:38–47:55] Danny Nelson on the RWA/crypto crossover, market structure
• [54:03–56:09] On-chain lending and custody risks