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Podcast
[Un]Churned – The No. 1 Podcast for Customer Retention
Hosted by Gainsight · EN
If you're experimenting with automation, questioning the traditional post-sales model, or trying to drive more value with less headcount, you're in the right place. AI won’t fix churn, but these conversations might.
Retention is the new growth, AI is rewriting the rules. Hosted by Josh Schachter, SVP of Atlas at Gainsight, [Un]Churned—the No. 1 podcast for retention and Customer Success leaders—features real talk with the sharpest minds in the Customer Success space. We dig into how teams are scaling smarter, activating AI agents, and redesigning the customer journey for lasting impact.
49episodes
Episodes
Newest firstAll episodes
How to Stand Out in a Crowded CS Hiring Market (Without a CS Background) ft. Katy Bone (Gainsight)
1w ago00:18:15Tap to summarizeWant the playbook, not just the conversation? Subscribe for deep-dive, actionable breakdowns from every episode at unchurned.substack.com.She went from treating eating disorders to running a $5M enterprise book at the biggest name in Customer Success and she didn't take no for an answer. Katy Bone, Enterprise CSM at Gainsight joins Josh to share the bathroom-humor pitch email that got her noticed, why vulnerability beats polish on LinkedIn, and the nonprofit born from unimaginable loss that's now reached families in 45 states.Learn more or support the mission: https://www.blessingsforbarrett.com/ ---What You'll Learn- How a therapy background translates directly into churn prevention and relationship-building- The exact outreach tactics Katy used to break into a competitive CS hiring process with a non CS background- Why vulnerable, human LinkedIn content builds deeper trust with enterprise stakeholders than polished thought-leadership- How cross-functional collaboration skills transfer from healthcare advocacy to CS- The story behind Blessings for Barrett and how it's scaled using AI tools---Timestamps0:00 - Preview & Intro0:48 - Meet Katy Bone, Enterprise CSM at Gainsight1:27 - What an Enterprise CSM at GainSight actually does2:15 - The Career Switch5:02 - The parallel: fighting insurance denials vs. fighting churn6:28 - Standing out against experienced CS candidates7:47 - Sending a mock EBR prep before the interview9:00 - The bathroom reading pitch email10:28 - The LinkedIn banner that gets replies12:02 - Learning it's okay to be vulnerable online14:02 - What vulnerability has taught her about business15:15 - Barrett's story & Blessings for Barrett---Josh is writing a book on building customer relationships. Follow his journey and insights at www.joshschachter.com---Where to Find the GuestKaty Bone: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katy-bone-3b6334233/---Where to Find the Hosts: Josh's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jschachter/Unchurned Substack: https://unchurned.substack.com/
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Vibe Coding Is a Bandaid on a Bandaid ft. Saumyo Mukherjee (Braze)
2w ago00:22:24Tap to summarizeAI adoption feels chaotic right now. Saumyo Mukherjee calls it "good chaos."He's VP of Business Systems at Braze. 24-person team. Supports 2,000 employees. Sits between every GTM function using AI.This episode covers vibe coding sprawl. Duplicate automations. And a handoff automation that replaced 1.5 days of manual work.Plus his take on in-app intelligence, token budget and why tool-switching kills CSM productivity.Real tactics from inside a fast-scaling SaaS company.---Want the playbook, not just the conversation? Subscribe for deep-dive, actionable breakdowns from every episode at unchurned.substack.com.---What you'll learn- Why "good chaos" beats no chaos- How Braze runs quarterly AI hackathons- The sales-to-services handoff fix that saved days- Why token costs are the new budget battle- Why in-app intelligence beats tool-switching--- Timestamps0:00 - Preview & Introduction1:30 - Meet Saumyo Mukherjee, VP of Business Systems at Braze3:52 - Vibe coding sprawl problem7:53 - The AI idea box & Sales-to-services handoff fix11:52 - Balancing freedom and guardrails (Quarterly AI hackathons)14:32 - Anthropic, token costs, and budget strategy18:30 - Why in-app intelligence wins19:45 - Braze's return to Gainsight---Josh is writing a book on building customer relationships. Follow his journey and insights at www.joshschachter.com---Where to Find the GuestSaumyo Mukherjee: https://www.linkedin.com/in/saumyo/---Where to Find Josh:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jschachter/Unchurned Substack: https://unchurned.substack.com/
Transcribe →Why BCGx's Chief AI Officer thinks writing code by hand is a waste of time ft. Matthew Kropp (BCGx)
3w ago00:47:11Tap to summarizeMost companies think they're ahead on AI. The data says otherwise. Even the most sophisticated firms are only about 5% of the way down the journey.In this episode of the [Un]Churned Podcast, Josh Schachter sits down with Matthew Kropp, Managing Director, Senior Partner, and Chief AI Officer at BCG, who's advised roughly 400 companies' boards and executive teams on AI strategy since ChatGPT launched. They unpack why most AI adoption stalls out at "1,000 chatbots and no value," the real psychological reasons people resist using these tools, and why the smartest company isn't the one winning anymore, it's the one using AI the most.Matthew also opens up about Jessica, his personal experiment building a fully AI-run company, no human employees, agents making the decisions, himself acting only as "the governor."They also dive into:- Why 80% of engineers use AI tools, but only 5% actually use them to write code- The four real reasons people don't adopt AI, and why "identity threat" is the biggest one- Why using AI more, and more productively, is becoming the new competitive edge- Why AI-native companies have a growing allergy to middle management- Whether consulting itself is under threat, and why demand for advice isn't going anywhere while the work itself changesIf you're leading AI adoption inside your company, worried about what AI means for your role, or just want a clear-eyed look at what's actually working right now, this episode is worth your full attention.Want the playbook, not just the conversation? Subscribe for deep-dive, actionable breakdowns from every episode at unchurned.substack.com.Chapters00:00 – Intro & Backstory03:33 – Biggest Shifts In How Executives Think About AI08:32 – The Four Reasons Companies Don't Adopt AI16:20 – Marketing, Sales & Insurance's AI Transformation18:59 – Token-Based Competition & "Token Maxing"23:28 – Inside BCG's 3,000-Person Engineering Org28:42 – AI Brain Fry: The Psychological Cost30:59 – What Happens To Middle Management33:17 – Is Consulting Under Threat?39:21 – Building Jessica: A Zero-Human CompanyJosh is writing a book on building customer relationships. Follow his journey and insights at www.joshschachter.comWhere to Find the Guest:Matthew's Linkedin : https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-kropp/Where to Find the Host:Josh's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jschachter/Unchurned Substack: https://unchurned.substack.com
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What a Chief AI Officer Actually Does ft. Ziv Peled (AppsFlyer)
3w ago00:24:12Tap to summarizeWant the playbook, not just the conversation? Subscribe for deep-dive, actionable breakdowns from every episode at unchurned.substack.com.He built the dashboards. Now he's questioning if they'll even exist in two years.Ziv Peled just added "Chief AI Officer" on top of Chief Customer Officer to his title at AppsFlyer. In this episode, he breaks down what that actually means: not a figurehead role, but hands-on rebuilding of workflows, architecture decisions, and the mindset of an entire org. Josh and Ziv chat about how AppsFlyer built their own $20/month AI pipeline on top of Gong instead of replacing it, why "build vs. buy" isn't the binary everyone thinks, what happens to your AI costs, and why "50x ROI" claims are mostly noise; plus the line that stopped the whole conversation: "When is the last dashboard?"---What You'll Learn- What a Chief AI Officer actually does day-to-day - Why AppsFlyer upsold into Gong instead of churning- Why most AI ROI metrics ("10x, 50x") don't hold up- What's changing with AI vendor pricing/consumption limits- How to think about AI security risk without a rulebook to follow yet---Timestamps0:00 - Preview & Intro1:30 - Meet Ziv Peled, CAIO at AppsFlyer 4:40 - How the CAIO role came to be6:50 - Build vs. buy: Salesforce, Gong, and AppsFlyer's own MCP9:25 - Why AppsFlyer isn't churning off Gong (they upsold)12:20 - What is Mythos? (and the quantum computing tangent)13:50 - The 90-minute video, 2-minute AI analysis story14:42 - How AI is changing competitive advantage16:10 - What it actually takes to become an AI-native company19:33 - Rapid fire: adoption, measurement, expense, security---Josh is writing a book on building customer relationships. Follow his journey and insights at www.joshschachter.com---Where to Find the GuestZiv Peled: https://www.linkedin.com/in/zivpeled---Where to Find the Hosts: Josh's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jschachter/Unchurned Substack: https://unchurned.substack.com/
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Claude Code Cut Dev Cycles 60% Then Forced an Org Redesign ft. Margo Martin & Jason Goldsmith (Deltek)
4w ago00:36:32Tap to summarizeWant the playbook, not just the conversation? Subscribe for deep-dive, actionable breakdowns from every episode at unchurned.substack.com.Deltek's CCO Margo Martin and newly-appointed VP Customer Strategy & Services at Deltek Jason Goldsmith reveal how Claude turned three siloed post-sale teams into one AI-first machine and why they built a brand new executive role just to keep up.Deltek didn't just adopt AI. They restructured around it. After Claude and Claude Code cut documentation timelines by 80% and dev cycles by 50-60%, CCO Margo Martin realized her three post-sale orgs (implementation, CS, and support) were quietly duplicating AI work. Her fix? A brand-new "AI convergence" role . And she picked an internal boomerang employee to run it.In this episode, you'll hear exactly how they built the business case, picked the right leader, and what's next on the roadmap.---What You'll Learn- The tradeoff between touchless implementation and long-term customer stickiness- How Claude Code cut custom implementation timelines by 50-60%- Why Deltek reduced customer documentation & training time by 80%- How to spot "AI silos" forming across your org before they cost you- What it takes to build (and pitch) a brand-new AI strategy role internally- Deltek's build-vs-buy framework for AI tools- How CX leaders are using personal AI "chiefs of staff" day-to-day- Why Deltek is rebuilding its entire customer journey around AI- How to balance automation speed with customer stickiness ---Timestamps0:00 - Preview & Intro1:50 - Meet Margo Martin & Jason Goldsmith (Deltek)2:45 - What Deltek does & org structure6:40 - How Claude Code changed everything 10:23 - Duplicate AI efforts & the new VP of AI strategy role14:45 - Why Jason was the pick19:10 - Jason's 30/60/90 day plan24:10 - Predicting the first team to join Jason's org26:45 - Personal AI chiefs of staff28:28 - Build vs. buy: Deltek's AI tooling philosophy32:56 - KPIs and metrics for AI transformation---Josh is writing a book on building customer relationships. Follow his journey and insights at www.joshschachter.com---Where to Find the GuestMargo Martin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margomartin-/Jason Goldsmith: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jwgoldsmith/---Where to Find the Hosts: Josh's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jschachter/Unchurned Substack: https://unchurned.substack.com/
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The Old Playbook Is Obsolete. The New One Isn't Built. ft. Amanda Moran (Darktrace)
4w ago00:22:40Tap to summarizeSix months in, Amanda Moran, is rebuilding customer success from scratch.She spent eight years at LinkedIn mastering the old playbook: rules, workflows, perfectly timed emails. Now she's VP of Digital Customer Success at Darktrace, a cybersecurity company betting its future on securing AI itself.But she's stuck on the question keeping every CS leader up at night. Autonomous agents aren't here. You can feel them coming. So what do you build right now, without wasting months on work the agents will replace?Josh Schachter pushes into the hard parts: the data nobody connects, and why the next cybersecurity battle is the AI you're about to deploy.This one's for anyone building toward a future that hasn't arrived.---Want the playbook, not just the conversation? Subscribe for deep-dive, actionable breakdowns from every episode at unchurned.substack.com.---What you'll learn- Why rules-based outreach is on its way out, and what comes next- How to build CS today without locking in throwaway automation- The pooled support model behind 5 people serving 10,000 customers- Why agentic AI is cybersecurity's next frontier- The hidden signals in community and learning data- What CS leaders are all quietly trying to figure out--- Timestamps0:00 - Preview & Introduction1:42 - Meet Amanda Moran & Overview of Darktrace3:00 - Transitioning from LinkedIn to cybersecurity4:03 - Building AI-driven email engagement6:50 - The Digital CS org at Darktrace 9:20 - The pooled model11:39 - Renewals at Darktrace12:45 - Securing AI itself: the July launch14:17 - Internal AI enablement15:17 - Building CS before the agents take over17:50 - The data problem20:10 - The in-between phase nobody has cracked---Josh is writing a book on building customer relationships. Follow his journey and insights at www.joshschachter.com---Where to Find the GuestAmanda Moran: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandammoran/---Where to Find Josh:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jschachter/Unchurned Substack: https://unchurned.substack.com/
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He Created a Job Title 1,000+ People Now Have ft. Yash Tekriwal (Clay)
Jul 800:45:44Tap to summarizeMost companies think of education as a support function, the real shift is treating it as a go-to-market engine.In this episode of the UnChurned Podcast, Josh Schachter and Samantha Murray sit down with Yash Tekriwal, Head of Go-to-Market Engineering Ecosystem at Clay, to unpack how he became the company's first-ever GTM Engineer, why Clay rebranded its entire education team, and what it actually takes to build a learning ecosystem people don't just consume, but live inside of.Yash shares the origin story of the GTM Engineer role, why he believes "education" has become a dirty word in tech, and how Clay is rethinking everything from LMS platforms to certification to attribution.They also dive into:- The origin story behind the first-ever "GTM Engineer" title- Why Clay killed its education team and rebranded to a GTM engineering ecosystem- Why traditional LMS platforms get learning fundamentally wrong- The "control the environment, not the process" philosophy of learning- Why brand affinity and "vibes" matter more than marketing attribution- Rethinking certification and skill assessment in the age of AIIf you're building a GTM team, leading customer education, or trying to figure out how learning and community actually drive growth, this episode is a masterclass in building an ecosystem instead of a content library.Want the playbook, not just the conversation? Subscribe for deep-dive, actionable breakdowns from every episode at unchurned.substack.com.Chapters00:00 – Intro & Backstory01:03 – Yash's Pre-Clay Career and Failed Startups05:30 – Why He's More Of A Founder Than When He Was One06:32 – Becoming Clay's First-Ever GTM Engineer09:41 – Category Creation and Market Sizing13:42 – "We Killed The Education Team At Clay"15:36 – Why Education Became A Dirty Word In Tech21:08 – Yash's Path From Teacher To GTM Engineer24:54 – The Build vs. Buy Problem With LMS Platforms28:09 – Control The Environment, Not The Process32:37 – Why Attribution Doesn't Matter — It's All Vibes36:18 – Inside Clay's Six-Pod GTM Ecosystem42:16 – Yash's One-Year Goal: Rebuilding CertificationJosh is writing a book on building customer relationships. Follow his journey and insights at www.joshschachter.comWhere to Find the Guest:Yash's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/yashtekriwalWhere to Find the Hosts:Josh's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jschachter/Unchurned Substack: https://unchurned.substack.com/Samantha's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samantha-murray613/
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Your North Star Metric Is Wrong (and It's Killing Your Retention) ft. Mark Roberge (Stage 2 Capital)
Jul 600:39:40Tap to summarizeMost founders treat product-market fit like a feeling. Mark Roberge thinks that's as absurd as calling profit a feeling.The founding CRO of HubSpot, Harvard Business School lecturer, and Stage 2 Capital co-founder joins Josh to break down his new book, The Science of Scaling. The argument at the center of it - the decision of when and how fast to scale shouldn't be a gut call. It should be gated on retention.Mark shares the leading indicator of retention (the one metric that predicts churn in a customer's first month), the 5-50-500 playbook a Microsoft leader used to launch new products, why Drift's founder flew across the country to onboard $50/month customers, and what "AI-native sales team" should actually mean in 2026 (with numbers attached).If you work in Customer Success, this episode makes the case that you own the most strategic metric in the company. All proceeds from Mark's book go to McLean Hospital for mental health care.---Want the playbook, not just the conversation? Subscribe for deep-dive, actionable breakdowns from every episode at unchurned.substack.com.---What You'll Learn- Why we scale haphazardly, not scientifically- A quantitative definition of product-market fit - How to design a leading indicator of retention- Real LIR examples from Slack, Harvey, Facebook, and Gainsight - The three maturity levels of an LIR- How a Microsoft leader used the 5-50-500 rep model to de-risk new product launches- How to pick your threshold based on the blitzscale risk in your category- Why product-market fit and go-to-market fit must be sequenced, not pursued at once- How to know when to move past founder-led sales - How to bring unit economics into board meetings - Why blitzscaling fails more companies than it saves (and why VCs push it anyway)- The two metrics that define an AI-native sales team in 2026- Mark's four phases of the AI revolution in go-to-market ---Timestamps0:00 - Preview & Intro1:30 - Meet Mark Roberge3:07 - The Science of Scaling (All book proceeds go to McLean Hospital)7:30 - We scale haphazardly, not scientifically9:06 - Microsoft's 5-50-500 playbook13:19 - Is product-market fit a feeling?15:48 - The leading indicator of retention, explained17:30 - Time to value vs. recurring value19:42 - Designing your own LIR24:04 - Why go-to-market fit comes after PMF26:06 - Pitching this framework to VCs28:15 - How to know when you have go-to-market fit31:15 - Bringing the science to larger companies33:00 - When to move beyond founder-led sales35:51 - AI and the four phases of the GTM revolution37:20 - What "AI-native sales team" means in 2026---Josh is writing a book on building customer relationships. Follow his journey and insights at www.joshschachter.com---Where to Find the GuestMark Roberge: https://www.linkedin.com/in/markroberge/The Science of Scaling: https://a.co/d/0boDpDUcStage 2 Capital: https://www.stage2.capital/---Where to Find the Host: Josh's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jschachter/Unchurned Substack: https://unchurned.substack.com/
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How to Sell Community to a CEO Who Doesn't Care About Community ft. Chris Catania (Esri)
Jul 100:39:12Tap to summarizeMost leaders treat community as a marketing channel. They're leaving the real advantage on the table.Chris Catania , Head of Community at Esri built community from a love of live music. Lately, he wrote the playbook. In this episode he joins Erica Kuhl, who scaled Salesforce's legendary Trailblazer community, and Josh Schachter to make the case that community isn't a nice-to-have. It's a strategic operating system competitors can't copy.From Lego's near-bankruptcy turnaround to Marc Benioff, CEO of Salesforce, demanding harsher feedback, this episode reframes what community can do for a business.---Want the playbook, not just the conversation? Subscribe for deep-dive, actionable breakdowns from every episode at unchurned.substack.com.---What You'll Learn- Why community is a service to every team, not a marketing channel- The importance of speaking each executive's language- The "fake flowers vs real flowers" test for authentic community- Why community-driven companies build an advantage rivals can't catch- The three E's: enablement, experience, evaluation- How to set a North Star while delivering ROI in small wins---Timestamps0:00 - Preview & Intro1:56 - Meet Chris Catania6:27 - Three founders, one music origin story10:17 - The Lego turnaround that saved the brand14:25 - Fake flowers vs real flowers17:28 - Why nobody likes the word "community"22:05 - The Marc Benioff feedback story (CEO of Salesforce)24:24 - Is Voice of the customer underleveraged?31:47 - Erica ran Salesforce's first Twitter handle33:22 - Community as a service and the unfair advantage37:20 — One takeaway: the three E's---Josh is writing a book on building customer relationships. Follow his journey and insights at www.joshschachter.com---Where to Find the GuestChris Catania: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christophercatania/Website: https://chriscatania.co/---Where to Find the Hosts: Erica's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ericakuhlJosh's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jschachter/Unchurned Substack: https://unchurned.substack.com/
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Ex-Microsoft AI Lead: Why Smart Teams With Big Budgets Still Fail at AI ft. Brian Evergreen (The Future Solving Company)
Jun 2900:23:10Tap to summarizeEveryone's racing to "do AI." Almost nobody can say what for.Brian Evergreen, Forbes AI thought leader, author of Autonomous Transformation, ex-Microsoft, Founder & CEO of The Future Solving Company joins Josh Schachter to flip the playbook.Start with a problem? That traps you in incrementalism. Be data-driven? There's no data about the future. The old industrial-era moves quietly sabotage every AI rollout.Brian's fix: solve for a future you can feel. Then reverse-engineer it with one question: what would have to be true?Inside: the reason-tree framework, the JFK moon test, and how to make renewal a panic-level no-brainer your champion fights for. You don't need the CEO's permission to start.---Want the playbook, not just the conversation? Subscribe for deep-dive, actionable breakdowns from every episode at unchurned.substack.com.---What you'll learn- Why "start with a problem" caps your upside- How "data-driven" quietly became unscientific- Why green scorecards hide a shrinking business- The JFK test for a visceral vision- The reason-tree mapping "what would have to be true"- Whether a revenue number can be a vision- Helping customers build their own vision- Starting all this without executive buy-in--- Timestamps0:00 - Preview & Introduction2:00 - Meet Brian Evergreen (Ex-Microsoft)4:30 - Why the digital-era playbook fails for AI5:25 - "Start with a problem" is an incrementalism trap6:00 - How "data-driven" turned unscientific7:19 - All green scorecards but shrinking market share8:40 - Netflix solved the same future twice9:35 - No value vision? Don't invest in AI yet12:40 - Getting over organizational inertia15:30 - The reason-tree: "what would have to be true?"18:25 - Can a vision be a number? (Replit's $1B ARR vision)19:50 - Why most "strategy" is just a SWOT board21:15 - You don't need the CEO's permission---Josh is writing a book on building customer relationships. Follow his journey and insights at www.joshschachter.com---Where to Find the GuestBrian Evergreen: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianevergreen/Brian's Substack: https://newsletter.brianevergreen.com/---Where to Find Josh:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jschachter/Unchurned Substack: https://unchurned.substack.com/
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