S31 E2: Time capsule | The Banned Teacher

Summary

Podcast Summary: “S31 E2: Time Capsule | The Banned Teacher” from Uncover

Introduction

In the gripping second episode of Season 31 titled “Time Capsule | The Banned Teacher,” CBC’s Uncover delves into the haunting journey of Ann Marie Robinson, a survivor seeking closure from her traumatic past. Hosted by award-winning podcaster Sam Mullins, this episode unravels the intricate layers of deception, abuse, and the relentless pursuit of justice surrounding Ann Marie's encounter with her former music teacher, Doug Walker.

Reconnecting with the Past

The story commences in 2014 when Ann Marie Robinson, striving to move past her high school memories, joins a community band in Ottawa. To her shock, she discovers that Doug Walker, her former music teacher and abuser, is also a member of the same band.

Ann Marie Robinson [01:10]: “I kind of went, oh, Doug Walker, trombone. And I thought, that's my high school teacher.”

Determined to confront her past, Ann Marie requests a meeting with Walker, hoping for an apology that would allow her to heal.

The Confrontation

During their scheduled coffee meeting, Ann Marie prepares a list of grievances to address Walker's past abuse. However, the confrontation takes an unexpected turn.

Ann Marie Robinson [03:08]: “When I was 16... I wanted him to realize what he had done was a terribly bad thing and it was really wrong.”

Instead of receiving the anticipated apology, Walker behaves inappropriately, expressing remorse in a manner that blindsides Ann Marie and leaves her feeling powerless.

Ann Marie Robinson [03:41]: “He started in the place where he left off. When I was 16... I couldn't say a thing. I couldn't get one single thing out. I was just like in shock.”

Realizing his intentions, Ann Marie swiftly ends the meeting, leaving both parties estranged.

Aftermath and Seeking Closure

The encounter reopens old wounds for Ann Marie, who finds herself unable to return to her deputy minister role in the Canadian government without grappling with the resurfaced trauma.

Doug Walker [05:22]: “I just had just done a parliamentary committee... I wanted him to acknowledge that he caused me pain... I quit high school... I just kind of floated away from school one day.”

For Walker, the confrontation triggers a severe emotional collapse, leading to panic attacks and a diagnosis of delayed-onset PTSD.

Doug Walker [06:16]: “I couldn't be that deputy minister and that teen girl, they couldn't coexist.”

The Investigation Begins

Determined to uncover the truth and find other potential victims, Ann Marie reaches out to Julie Ireton, the host, spearheading an investigation into Walker’s past. Their collaboration aims to shed light on the systemic failures that allowed Walker's abuse to go unchecked.

Revisiting the School

In a pivotal segment, Ann Marie and Julie visit Eastern High School of Commerce, where Ann Marie endured the abuse. The visit is emotionally charged, with Ann Marie confronting the physical space of her trauma.

Doug Walker [23:26]: “That's really what I remember most is the music room, because that's where my trauma took place.”

Their attempt to enter the school is met with resistance due to ongoing COVID-19 restrictions, but the symbolic act of visiting the site marks the beginning of their deeper investigation.

Uncovering More Truths

Julie Ireton’s investigation leads her to reconnect with Barry Hodgins, a former music teacher at the school, who provides firsthand insights into the dysfunctional environment that allowed Walker’s actions to persist.

Barry Hodgins [28:36]: “Things were different back in those days... I should have gone to the principal, but... I was the third teacher in the group.”

Hodgins reflects on his observations of Ann Marie and Walker, revealing a troubling awareness that was dismissed or overlooked at the time.

Barry Hodgins [28:57]: “I saw them together, other places... I was naive.”

These revelations prompt Ann Marie to question the extent of Walker’s deceit and the possibility of additional victims.

Confronting Societal Standards

The episode highlights the gendered nuances in how society perceives and addresses abuse. Ann Marie’s experience as a female victim reveals differing societal reactions compared to male survivors, underscoring the need for a more inclusive understanding of abuse.

Ann Marie Robinson [30:01]: “My adult brain started kicking in and I had to kind of understand what it was and see it through my adult brain. And that was just such a painful experience.”

Conclusion and Ongoing Search

As the episode concludes, it becomes evident that Ann Marie’s quest for truth and justice is far from over. The investigation not only seeks to bring Walker to account but also aims to expose the systemic flaws that enabled his abuses.

Ann Marie Robinson [30:37]: “It took a good two years after I saw him for me to have to put things in order in my brain to go to the police.”

Uncover sets the stage for future episodes, promising deeper dives into the collective experiences of Walker’s victims and the broader implications for institutional accountability.

Final Thoughts

“S31 E2: Time Capsule | The Banned Teacher” is a compelling exploration of personal trauma intersecting with systemic failure. Through Ann Marie Robinson’s courageous journey, the episode sheds light on the pervasive impact of abuse and the enduring quest for recognition and healing.

Notable Quotes:

• Ann Marie Robinson [03:41]: “I couldn't say a thing. I couldn't get one single thing out. I was just like in shock.”

• Doug Walker [06:16]: “I couldn't be that deputy minister and that teen girl, they couldn't coexist.”

• Barry Hodgins [28:57]: “I saw them together, other places... I was naive.”

This episode masterfully intertwines personal narratives with investigative journalism, providing listeners with a profound understanding of the complexities surrounding abuse, memory, and justice.

Transcript

[Matt Galloway]

It is a wild time in the world right now, and sometimes it's actually hard to figure out what's what. The Current is here to help. My name is Matt Galloway, and we bring you conversations to expand your worldview solutions to some of the wicked problems of our time. Like is Canada underreacting to Trump's takeover threats? And our phones rewiring our brains. We'll also bring you great stories you might never heard of before, including, why are we suddenly obsessed with doppelgangers? The you can find the Current wherever you get your podcasts, including YouTube. I'll talk to you soon. This is a CBC podcast.

[Julie Ireton]

For years, Ann Marie Robinson had tried to forget her former music teacher. She stored those memories away like a time capsule in her mind, not to be opened in this century. Then she saw The Ghost. In 2014, she joined a community band in Ottawa. Not the place where she went to high school long, but where she lived happily with her husband and their teenage daughter. Mr. Walker joined that same community band the same night she did. What were the odds?

[Ann Marie Robinson]

I kind of went, oh, Doug Walker, trombone. And I thought, that's my high school teacher.

[Julie Ireton]

After practice, Ann Marie asked him if they could meet for coffee the following week.

[Ann Marie Robinson]

If I wanted to move forward in my life, this might be the only time in my life that I could say something to him. And so I basically spent the whole week deciding what I was going to say to him.

[Julie Ireton]

What she really wanted was an apology so she could move on and heal.

[Ann Marie Robinson]

Just wanting him to know that he had abused me, that he had affected my life. I wanted him to realize what he had done was a terribly bad thing and it was really wrong.

[Julie Ireton]

The band teacher. I'm Julie Ireton. This is season two of the Band Played On. Ann Marie Robinson is a survivor, and she's trying to regain control. She wants to know how many other girls went through the same thing she went through in high school.

[Doug Walker]

That's really what I remember most, is the music room, because that's where my trauma took place.

[Barry Hodgins]

And I, me and Anne Marie are in the music room, the music office. And I found that very strange. I thought it was something real, real off there.

[Doug Walker]

I want to be in the building.

[Ann Marie Robinson]

I want to walk through those hallways.

[Doug Walker]

And not feel powerless.

[Julie Ireton]

Ann Marie wants to return to what she remembers as the scene of the crime. She's seeking out others who might help our investigation. But first, she must confront the man she calls her abuser. Episode 2 Time Capsule.

[Ann Marie Robinson]

So the next week, we both showed up at rehearsal, and after we Walked up the street to the coffee shop.

[Julie Ireton]

There's little banter as Annemarie and the former teacher walk over. The cafe is just down the street from the old church where the band practices. But it's cramped. Not the perfect spot for a private conversation.

[Ann Marie Robinson]

And so we sat down. I had this whole long list of things I wanted to say.

[Julie Ireton]

But then he spoke first.

[Ann Marie Robinson]

He started in the place where he left off. When I was 16, like the first thing that came out of his mouth was, I'm sorry for what it was and for what it wasn't. You were the love of my life. And I remember thinking like I was so. I can't tell you how shocked I was when he said that because it was just so immature. And then he started talking about how his wife was going out of town and did I want to have a drink sometimes. So I realized very quickly in. He was, I guess, hitting on me. I don't like that expression, but that's how it felt. And I was just like, so shut down. I mean, I couldn't say a thing. I couldn't get one single thing out. I was just like in shock. And like, I think I was like a block of ice. And then he switched right away. It was like switching on a dime. He started talking about how poor he was. He couldn't afford to buy lunch. He'd lost all of his teacher's pension in the stock market. We were there for all of 15 minutes. We just walked out and I said goodbye and he left. He went one way, I went the other way. And I never saw him again. And then he never came back to the band? No.

[Julie Ireton]

But that time capsule in her mind, all those high school memories was opened.

[Ann Marie Robinson]

It was like having a box that you put in the basement and you don't look in that box for years and years and years. And then suddenly you go down and you open the box and it explodes in your.

[Julie Ireton]

At that point in time, 2014, Ann Marie was at the peak of her career in a deputy minister level job in the Canadian government.

[Doug Walker]

I just had just done a parliamentary committee which for many of us in the public service, those are tough, hard challenges. And it gone well. And I thought, okay, I'm feeling good about myself. I'm going to sort of tackle this.

[Julie Ireton]

She would rise above it.

[Doug Walker]

I wanted him to acknowledge that he caused me pain and that he hurt me as a child, like I wanted him to. And to say what he did was wrong, that it was unbalanced. And you know that I quit high school like I It changed the trajectory of your life. It did. And there was no follow up from either the school board or him or anything. I just kind of floated away from school one day.

[Julie Ireton]

But after that meeting, it changed the trajectory again.

[Doug Walker]

A few months later, I had a complete emotional collapse and I walked out of my job at the Public Service Commission. That was the hardest thing in the world for me, honestly, because I. I loved my job.

[Ann Marie Robinson]

Yeah.

[Julie Ireton]

She just left work, no explanation. She says she couldn't be that deputy minister and that teen girl, they couldn't coexist.

[Doug Walker]

So then I started having panic attacks and anxiety. I was diagnosed with delayed onset ptsd. And so then I went on a long struggle to try to recover.

[Julie Ireton]

Ann Marie never went back to work. And she was still in recovery mode when she got in touch with me years later. But ready for investigation.

[Doug Walker]

There we go.

[Kathleen Goldhar]

So how are you this morning?

[Doug Walker]

Good.

[Christine]

I feel fine this morning.

[Doug Walker]

Just.

[Julie Ireton]

We catch up frequently by video call.

[Christine]

Yeah. It's this unsettling feeling when there's big pieces that are missing. You just feel like you need to know. You need to understand why this happened, what happened, what other people who were around at the time thought about and, you know, in terms of trying to find his other victim, I know he has at least one.

[Julie Ireton]

She knows because of that report she found several years ago. It was when she Googled the former teacher's name. The Ontario College of Teachers had found him guilty of professional misconduct, and that report revealed he had sex with another teen student at least 56 times. But the victim's name was blacked out.

[Christine]

I feel she's the only person in the world who can understand what I went through. And she happened after me. And so I really want to apologize to her. I know what happened was not my fault, but I just feel that's something I want to do, to have closure.

[Kathleen Goldhar]

But when we're Talking about the 70s and 80s, it's obviously more difficult because we just don't have that digital record of. Of everything. But I will, you know, I'll start digging.

[Christine]

Yeah, he. And he also told me himself that he was punched in the face by the father of another victim. But reflecting back on it, I wonder if it really did happen. And I believed it at the time, which seems ridiculous, but, you know, well.

[Julie Ireton]

It could have happened. You don't know.

[Christine]

Yeah, I think it may have happened. I mean, it makes sense now to me that he has a problem, that it did happen, and that's why he was. He changed schools.

[Kathleen Goldhar]

Any other big questions that you want answered?

[Christine]

I Mean that in terms of my personal experience, yes, that kind of encapsulates it. I want to know.

[Julie Ireton]

But in terms of systemic issues, she has additional priorities. In fact, she started doing research. Ann Marie has found inadequate protections for children and loopholes that still allow teachers to get away with abuse.

[Christine]

I've done a lot of reading. I've read, I read, I think I read. I read all the legislation in every province, plus I've spoken to experts.

[Julie Ireton]

The former policy wonk can't help herself. Besides, it's keeping her mind busy.

[Christine]

I want to know what other people knew at the time, you know, but going forward now to the present, it's really important to me to understand what. What's happening now and why this keeps happening. The system is very immature, even today, and so that. That bothers me a lot.

[Kathleen Goldhar]

Well, I'm. We're going to find some answers here, and I think you're ready for answers. And that's what I'm excited about too.

[Doug Walker]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Thank you.

[Julie Ireton]

Okay, Sounds good.

[Christine]

Okay, take care.

[Doug Walker]

Bye. Bye.

[Kathleen Goldhar]

Bye.

[Julie Ireton]

I did reach out to the former music teacher. As I mentioned, Doug Walker maintains he had a consensual relationship. Anne Marie Robinson. But he didn't want to do an interview. With few answers from him. Anne Marie and I plan a trip.

[Christine]

Please note that masks are required if.

[Doug Walker]

You are not actively eating or drinking during the service.

[Julie Ireton]

Thank you, Covid. Restrictions are still in force in the winter of 2022. Anne Marie and I and everyone around us are wearing masks. So we're heading. We're heading to Toronto. The train starts moving out of the Ottawa station. Our bags and down coats are stored above, but Annemarie hangs onto a heavy tote, leaves it between our seats. How do you feel about this trip?

[Doug Walker]

Good.

[Julie Ireton]

Yeah.

[Doug Walker]

It's kind of. For me, going back into the environment is a bit triggering. Yeah.

[Julie Ireton]

So we're gonna take care and we're going to, you know, you're going to let me know how. How you're doing and.

[Doug Walker]

Yeah, no, I'll be fine. It's. It's good to get it done and get it over with. Yeah. It's really weird from a time frame because for most of my life, when I wasn't dealing with it, I felt like this happened like 100 years ago. But now that I'm into it, it feels like it was literally yesterday morning. Yeah. It's kind of a strange feeling. It's good because I'm finally dealing with it. Because I didn't process it for 40 years, I still feel like I'm that 15 year old girl. And so I'm trying to reconcile those things.

[Julie Ireton]

For Ann Marie, it was another little girl who helped her come to terms with her past.

[Doug Walker]

One of the tipping points for me coming forward, I think I told you this was when I went to one of my daughter's band practices and I was setting up chairs. I was a stagehand for a grade 910 band when I was in grade 10 when he started to abuse me. And I just like, I couldn't. I just suddenly realized like really it was so stark. These little girls, I saw them as, you know, I was a woman in my 50s at that time and I just couldn't understand how he could not see us as children.

[Julie Ireton]

But did it make you better understand that you were a child and that you're not to blame and that this wasn't about something you did?

[Doug Walker]

Well, that took time because I think part of when predators groom children, they groom you to be silent. And I think one of the main mechanisms is to make you feel ashamed of it. And I felt very ashamed my whole life.

[Julie Ireton]

Ann Marie reaches for that heavy tote.

[Doug Walker]

Bag that's a school.

[Julie Ireton]

Pulls out yearbooks from her old high school. This is the Eastern High School of Commerce, but then it was called Eastern Commerce.

[Doug Walker]

Later I think it's always Eastern High School of Commerce, but everyone just called it Eastern Commerce.

[Julie Ireton]

Flips to the band section.

[Doug Walker]

Yeah, there he is right there. He enjoys all kinds of sports and he likes jazz music. Mr. Walker also plays the trombone in the Royal Regiment Band. He feels a student's best qualities are warmth and friendliness. That's ironic.

[Julie Ireton]

There's a photo of Ann Marie and the music teacher from 1978. He's tall, a broad smile under a bushy mustache. He wears a wide necktie and plaid shirt. The teacher and Ann Marie stand together. He's about a head taller. She cradles the French horn he bought for for her.

[Doug Walker]

But yeah, my name's there. Yeah, this is where I first found the date for the Belleville trip, the one that I was sexually assaulted on. So there he is with the. A jazz band. So I'm not in this picture. Now, where's Christine?

[Julie Ireton]

There's Christine, an old high school friend. Someone we're going to meet in Toronto. The train comes into the station. We pack up the yearbooks, gather our things. Here we go.

[Anna Stubblefield]

When Derek Johnson was diagnosed with cerebral palsy, his family thought that he would never be able to speak. And then they met Professor Anna Stubblefield. And she believed that with the right technique he could say what was on his mind. But what began as an opportunity turned into accusations of sexual assault. I'm Kathleen Goldhar, and this week on Crime Story, we dive into the complicated questions surrounding the doc Tell Them youm Love Me. Find Crime Story wherever you get your podcasts.

[Julie Ireton]

Ann Marie and I arrive at the hotel bar at the Royal York. It's a Toronto landmark. Leather couches, dim lighting and old books on shelves. Annemarie checks the time on her phone, then peeks above her glasses to scan the room.

[Doug Walker]

There's Christine there. My hair looks nice. A little darker.

[Julie Ireton]

The women hug, then discreetly check each other out. There are changes since grade 11, like the tiny creases where blue eyeshadow used to shine. But one thing hasn't changed the place they are now.

[Unnamed Friend]

They used to take us here to the Royal York, to the jazz club. Do you remember that?

[Doug Walker]

I do.

[Unnamed Friend]

That's where those pictures are from the.

[Julie Ireton]

He is Mr. Walker. As students, they drink here with their teacher. The two women lurch down memory lane. It's been so many years. Christine sort of knew what was going on between Ann Marie and the teacher, but she sort of didn't.

[Unnamed Friend]

I kind of. I felt horrible, but I couldn't help you. You know what I mean? I could only be there for you. I could. I couldn't. I couldn't help you because what. What could I say or do? You were in love with him and he made you feel those feelings.

[Doug Walker]

Right.

[Unnamed Friend]

So how. How do you, as a 15 or 16 year old, make sense of that?

[Julie Ireton]

Christine's description comes straight from the romantic memory of a kid in grade 10. Back then, Ann Marie did think it was love with a man, but she soon saw it as manipulation, assault.

[Doug Walker]

He raped me and then he.

[Unnamed Friend]

Was it a hard rape?

[Doug Walker]

Was it.

[Ann Marie Robinson]

I mean, no.

[Doug Walker]

I didn't physically resist, but I didn't.

[Unnamed Friend]

It wasn't consensual, but you knew it was.

[Doug Walker]

No, I knew it was wrong. And he was my teacher and so I did what he asked me to do.

[Julie Ireton]

Christine also recalls the music teacher singling Anne Marie out for special attention.

[Unnamed Friend]

You were like the pet. That's what people felt.

[Ann Marie Robinson]

Do you remember that?

[Doug Walker]

He bought me a horn? Yes. That used like the entire band budget to buy me an instrument.

[Ann Marie Robinson]

I was.

[Julie Ireton]

Anne Marie wants to know how Christine played, perceived the teacher.

[Doug Walker]

Do you consider yourself a victim of him?

[Unnamed Friend]

Of him? A little bit, yeah.

[Ann Marie Robinson]

Yeah.

[Julie Ireton]

Christine says the music teacher would often make sexual comments. There were kisses and hugs, pinches on the bum.

[Unnamed Friend]

Because years later I still. Yeah, for sure. Because I Was still affected by it. I still had memories of feeling hurt. It hurt me by growing, by building that relationship, that friendship, that weird friendship that we should. Yeah, it was not normal.

[Doug Walker]

Yeah, I'll. I'll have the steak print or called something else.

[Julie Ireton]

We order food. Anne Marie and Christine order wine. There's confusion about some recollections, experiences lived so long ago. This is the first stop on our fact finding mission. Anne Marie hoped Christine would have insight, maybe even names, clues. Could there have been other girls at their school who had the same experience? But Christine doesn't provide those leads. Instead she tries to get Annemarie to see it through Walker's eyes.

[Unnamed Friend]

So, you know, you have to look at two sides. You look at your side, which is a horrendous experience compared to his side. He did nothing wrong. You know, as far as he's concerned, you were okay with it. But I'm saying you've got to put yourself on the other side. And what is okay with him?

[Doug Walker]

I mean, we're playing psychology here, but yeah, we have to be friends again. We do.

[Ann Marie Robinson]

Yeah.

[Julie Ireton]

Later that night, I find myself tossing and turning over that conversation at the Royal York bar. I think Ann Marie expected unqualified support, solidarity, but it kind of fell short of that. I could see disappointment in Ann Marie's eyes. In the last season of the Band played on, many of the survivors I spoke to were men. They were teen boys. When they were propositions, touched or assaulted by male teachers, I documented horrible, inexcusable crimes. No one ever questioned whether those boys consented. The come ons from men to boys were always considered wrong, inappropriate and illegal. Anne Marie was 16. She says she was groomed, felt trapped, couldn't say anything. But in this case, she was a girl. And it appears society applies a different set of standards. There are assumptions made. It's the natural order of things, that the man may not be entirely at fault. I make a mental note. I need to investigate this further. My gut tells me there's a bigger story here with implications going way beyond Ann Marie. I finally managed to get some sleep before our next big day in Toronto. I hope Ann Marie does too.

[Christine]

The next station is Broadview.

[Doug Walker]

Broadview Station.

[Julie Ireton]

How did you sleep last night?

[Ann Marie Robinson]

I slept fine because the night before.

[Doug Walker]

I didn't sleep, so that helped. But yeah, no, I was. I woke up this morning and I. Yeah, I had like a knot in my stomach and can't eat. You know, it's kind of. I just.

[Julie Ireton]

Yeah, we're gonna take it slow.

[Doug Walker]

Yeah, we're Gonna see how it goes.

[Julie Ireton]

Day two in Toronto, and Annemarie seems robotic, going through the motions. Her dark bangs hang over her eyelids and a mandatory mask covers the other half of her face. So do you want to tell me where we're heading?

[Doug Walker]

Oh, we're going on the subway. Yeah. What? I used to take to school every day to Eastern Commerce, which was where I went to high school and was abused by Doug Walker. So it's kind of nerve wracking for me.

[Julie Ireton]

What stop are we getting on? We're going to Easter Commerce. So we're stopping at Donlands.

[Ann Marie Robinson]

Yeah.

[Doug Walker]

The next station is Don Lands. Don Lands. Let's just go out to see where we are.

[Julie Ireton]

I'm gonna take my mask.

[Doug Walker]

Honey, I don't want to take my mask off. I feel safer being hidden.

[Julie Ireton]

Well, it's up to you.

[Doug Walker]

Yeah, I don't mean from COVID I mean from Doug.

[Julie Ireton]

Oh, okay.

[Doug Walker]

In a weird way, that's the Danforth there.

[Julie Ireton]

There's the school right there. I see the sign.

[Doug Walker]

Oh, yeah.

[Julie Ireton]

Wow.

[Doug Walker]

I wasn't expecting that. It feels so close.

[Julie Ireton]

Yeah.

[Doug Walker]

And when you're a kid, everything feels further away.

[Julie Ireton]

Yeah.

[Ann Marie Robinson]

Slushy day it is.

[Doug Walker]

Yeah.

[Julie Ireton]

It's imposing red brick, what's called collegiate Gothic style. Old.

[Doug Walker]

My mom went to this school.

[Julie Ireton]

Really?

[Doug Walker]

Yeah. She went here in, wow, goodness, 1940s. And both my siblings graduated from here.

[Julie Ireton]

The main doors are dwarfed by a grand stone archway high above. Ahead of you.

[Christine]

Right.

[Doug Walker]

Yeah. See here? Right here. Here's the parking lot. I get angry when I look at the parking lot because he used to always leave, like. Like, I don't know, half an hour after school. And I used to get in the car with him all the time. And all the other teachers were around. I don't know why they didn't. Alarm bells didn't go off in their heads. But.

[Julie Ireton]

Anyway, we walk around to the back of the school. Ann Marie wanted to come here just to see the outside, not go in.

[Doug Walker]

And the school looks exactly the same. And music room's right there.

[Julie Ireton]

She points to the almost floor to ceiling windows up on the second floor, a hallway.

[Doug Walker]

That's really what I remember most is the music room, because that's where my trauma took place. And I. Yeah, and he assaulted me once in the music room in a closet where he followed me in. And I think in many ways that was the absolute worst because I knew that students were in and out of the room, and I was just so terrified of, how do I get out of here without.

[Ann Marie Robinson]

Yeah.

[Julie Ireton]

Her teenage trauma caused Deep damage. It's never left her. Intellectually, she knows the guilt and shame are misplaced, but they're still there. I see anger, frustration, yet never a tear. Maybe she's numb, or maybe it's the one thing she can control. Annemarie is smart. No one gets to the highest levels of a country's bureaucracy without being resourceful. In this moment, she's going to do what she needs to do. Annemarie hurries through the snow and slush on the sidewalk to the main entrance. Plans have changed. She wants to go inside.

[Doug Walker]

I want to get my power back. So I've never walked these halls without being terrified.

[Julie Ireton]

All of a sudden, there's a determination in her steps. This isn't even the same person I started out with on the subway. Being back at the school has ignited something. So where we're walking is the front of the school? Basically.

[Doug Walker]

Okay.

[Julie Ireton]

Yeah.

[Doug Walker]

Yeah.

[Julie Ireton]

I don't think they're gonna let us.

[Ann Marie Robinson]

I don't think so either.

[Julie Ireton]

Emry pushes the buzzer at the door under the archway. But it's the height of COVID and we're uninvited guests trying to get in.

[Doug Walker]

Hi. I'm a former student at this from the 1970s, and I just wondered if I could do a really quick walk. I'm well masked.

[Julie Ireton]

The receptionist tells Ann Marie to hold on. She's coming to the door. Then Ann Marie pretty much vomits out her story to this unsuspecting, kind stranger.

[Doug Walker]

I was actually sexually assaulted at this school by my teacher in the 1970s.

[Unnamed Friend]

Oh, dear.

[Julie Ireton]

The receptionist is patient. She gives a sympathetic ear to Ann Marie's request. The woman tells Ann Marie to send an email to the administrator. Maybe next time she can get in with an appointment. We walk to a nearby cafe, grab coffees, warm up.

[Doug Walker]

I want to be in the building.

[Ann Marie Robinson]

I want to walk through those hallways.

[Doug Walker]

And not feel powerless. Yeah. And that. It means a lot to me. I didn't realize that until this moment.

[Ann Marie Robinson]

Yeah.

[Julie Ireton]

She's smiling, cupping her mug with both hands.

[Doug Walker]

Suddenly, a little bit of my deputy minister brain came back and thought, yeah, I'm going to take charge here.

[Julie Ireton]

She's not just here to help herself. She wants to see institutional change.

[Doug Walker]

How did this stay hidden? Like, how does this stay hidden? What was. Like, what did he do to my mind, my psyche, my sense of self that I couldn't come after him sooner? Like, I just.

[Julie Ireton]

Ann Marie needs to get into that music room and the instrument closet where she says she was raped. She wants to picture herself there as a girl and understand what really happened through her adult eyes.

[Doug Walker]

It would mean a lot to me. It sounds crazy, but it's just relieving that burden and not being afraid to go in there, I think, is really what it's about.

[Julie Ireton]

It doesn't sound crazy at all. We leave her old neighborhood, and eventually we leave Toronto for home. But Annemarie is determined she will get into that music room. This trip wasn't a waste of time. It lays the groundwork for a visit sometime in the future. Back at home, I work the phones. I keep searching for that other victim, the girl, now woman, whose name was blacked out. It was on that official report after the teacher was found guilty of professional misconduct. Julie Ireton calling. I also find contacts for musicians who played with the Royals. Some say they weren't aware of anything inappropriate going on. Others don't want to comment. Then I tracked down a talker.

[Barry Hodgins]

Hi, Julie, how are you?

[Julie Ireton]

Barry Hodgins used to teach music. He's happy to chat.

[Doug Walker]

I'm good.

[Julie Ireton]

How are you doing?

[Barry Hodgins]

Good. I know it's been so busy, and I apologize that I've.

[Julie Ireton]

He taught music at Eastern Commerce. He remembers Anne Marie.

[Barry Hodgins]

She was a very popular girl. Not loud, but very, very popular.

[Julie Ireton]

And he worked with Doug Walker. It was a long time ago, but Barry recalls Anne Marie and Walker spending a lot of time alone together.

[Barry Hodgins]

He and Anne Marie are in a. In the music room, the music office. And I found that very strange. Thought it was something real, real off there. And then when I saw them together, you know, other places, I thought. But I had, you know, I guess the naive. And I was naive.

[Julie Ireton]

He's surprisingly frank about what he was thinking back then.

[Barry Hodgins]

I mean, things were different back in those days than what they are now. I should have gone to the principal, but. But then it sounds selfish, and I don't mean to be selfish, but I was in the position where I was the third teacher in the group.

[Julie Ireton]

In other words, he was outranked.

[Barry Hodgins]

So Vivian was the head. Doug was the assistant head, and I was teaching English and music.

[Julie Ireton]

But none of them checked in on their talented French horn player. When she suddenly quit school, I felt.

[Barry Hodgins]

It was very, very strange. Like, Anne Marie didn't come to me at all. And I understand why, because she was probably very embarrassed. And I can only understand that. And I never knew what went on in that room because never anybody say anything.

[Julie Ireton]

Ann Marie is glad Barry Hodgins is so open, but she's still angry about what adults knew and how they reacted. She now sees it all differently.

[Ann Marie Robinson]

My adult brain started kicking in and I had to kind of understand what it was and see it through my adult brain. And that was just such a painful experience.

[Julie Ireton]

It makes her wonder about that other woman, the one who reported the music teacher to the Ontario College of Teachers. Their story seem so similar. Could there be others? She figures there's one way to find out. Next time on the Band teacher We're in 55 division.

[Barry Hodgins]

Could you just say your name for the camera?

[Ann Marie Robinson]

It took a good two years after I saw him for me to have to put things in order in my brain to go to the police.

[Julie Ireton]

And still to come this season, I knew she existed. I knew someone existed from the other school. There's more of us. The Band Teacher is investigated, reported, written and hosted by me. Julie Ireton. Allison Cook is the story and script editor, producer, sound designer and mixer. Felice Chin is our executive producer and story editor. Eve St. Laurent is our legal advisor. Jennifer Chen, Amanda Pfeffer and Jen White provided valuable production advice. Special thanks to the folks at CBC Podcasts for their support. The Managing editor of CBC Ottawa is Drake Fenton. If you want to binge the whole series, subscribe to CBC True Crime Premium on Apple Podcasts. Just click on the link in the show description or binge listen for free by logging in to CBC Listen. If you or someone you know has been sexually abused, community resources can help. Reach out to a trusted person, sexual assault centre or rape crisis center in your area. For more CBC Podcasts, go to CBC CA Podcasts.