S31 E6: The diaries | The Banned Teacher

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Sea of Lies from Uncover"
Episode: S31 E6: The Diaries | The Banned Teacher
Release Date: January 9, 2025
Host: Julie Ireton, CBC

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Introduction

In the gripping episode "The Diaries | The Banned Teacher," CBC's Julie Ireton delves into the harrowing experiences of several women who were subjected to inappropriate and abusive behavior by their high school music teacher, Doug Walker, during the late 1970s and early 1980s. Through personal diaries, interviews, and investigative reporting, the episode unravels the extent of Walker's misconduct and the failures of the educational institutions to protect the students.

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Background

Julie Ireton introduces the central figures of the story: Jackie Short, Jeannie McKay, Ann Marie Robinson, and Rita—all former students of Doug Walker at Markham District High School in the Greater Toronto Area. Walker, a charismatic and enthusiastic music teacher, was simultaneously teaching at seven different schools, where he engaged in inappropriate relationships with multiple teenage students.

Notable Quote:

"This is season two of The Band Teacher Survivors from across the country meet up for the first time and newly found victims tell us their stories."
— Julie Ireton [34:13]

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The Diaries: A Window into Abuse

Jackie Short emerges as a pivotal figure whose meticulous diary entries provide a candid glimpse into her tumultuous high school years under Walker's influence. Her diaries document everyday teenage experiences intertwined with the unsettling interactions with Walker.

Notable Quotes:

• "October 2, 1979 Mr. Walker kissed me for my birthday."
  — Jackie Short [01:58]

• "March 14, 1980. Before the concerts, Walker called me over. He explained that he was going to a country club tomorrow night with his billet. Free drinks, food, etc. But he needs a date. So he asked me if I wanted to accompany him and I said sure."
  — Jackie Short [10:42]

Jackie's diaries reveal Walker's manipulative behavior, including public displays of affection, gifting, and using his position to blur boundaries with his students.

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Testimonies: Personal Accounts of Abuse

The episode features heartfelt testimonies from Jeannie McKay, Ann Marie Robinson, and Rita, all of whom recount their experiences with Walker:

• Jeannie McKay:
  "I think he's a horrible person. And you know, I went into music despite him, not because of him."
  — Jeannie McKay [06:47]

• Ann Marie Robinson:
  "The talk of love and marriage was entirely a way to manipulate and groom me and make me feel some sort of obligation towards him."
  — Ann Marie Robinson [15:00]

• Rita:
  "He took me to a romantic dinner in a French restaurant in Toronto and we went back to his house and ended up in his bed."
  — Rita [14:41]

These testimonies highlight the emotional and psychological impact of Walker's actions, emphasizing the power imbalance and the manipulation he exerted over his young students.

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Confrontation and Aftermath

In a pivotal moment from the transcript, Jackie Short confronts an administrator during a band trip to Germany, bravely exposing Walker's misconduct:

Notable Quote:

"I told him about Jeannie. I told him about Rita, I mentioned other girls that I thought. I told him that he had propositioned me a couple of times that I just spilled it."
— Jeannie McKay [23:48]

Despite her bravery, the administrator's lackluster response leads to Walker's continued abuse. Walker ultimately left Markham High five years after Jackie blew the whistle, moving to different schools without facing significant repercussions.

Notable Quote:

"He was a big guy. He has already come to her home together, but it's meaningful for her for somethings he can do for her now."
— Jeannie McKay [27:25]

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Official Responses and Investigations

Julie Ireton's investigation uncovers the institutional failures that allowed Walker's abuse to persist. Attempts to contact the former administrator yielded no responses, and the York School Board denied the existence of relevant records. In 2001, Walker was found guilty of professional misconduct by the Ontario College of Teachers, but many believed this was insufficient given the breadth of his abuse.

Notable Quote:

"When Jeannie went to the Ontario College of Teachers to report Walker, her friends' diaries became evidence."
— Julie Ireton [19:44]

Walker’s eventual public apology, which acknowledged his inappropriate behavior without taking full responsibility, was met with skepticism and disappointment from the survivors.

Notable Quotes:

"There are no excuses and no justification for my behavior. I was irresponsible, immature and arrogant. I am so sorry to have involved these outstanding and courageous women in relationships with which were inappropriate in all ways."
— Doug Walker [28:05]

"I don't consider that an apology. I wanted. It's not taking responsibility."
— Ann Marie Robinson [28:57]

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Current Status and Continuing Impact

The episode illustrates the lasting scars left by Walker's actions on his victims. Survivors like Ann Marie and Jeannie continue to seek accountability and support, hoping that bringing these stories to light will prevent future abuses and provide closure.

Notable Quote:

"He didn't have to list all the girls, but that would have been helpful."
— Ann Marie Robinson [30:36]

Additionally, new victims have begun to come forward, indicating a broader pattern of abuse that spans decades, suggesting that many more survivors remain silent.

Notable Quote:

"This is the reason Doug Walker was transferred from MDHS in 1987. I do not want my name published anywhere now. However, despite my lifelong shame about this incident, I would be happy to talk further to anyone involved in this case."
— Anonymous Former Student [34:46]

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Conclusion

"The Diaries | The Banned Teacher" serves as a powerful exposé on the systemic failures that allowed Doug Walker's abuse to persist unchecked for years. Through detailed personal accounts, diary excerpts, and investigative journalism, Julie Ireton sheds light on the emotional devastation wrought by institutional neglect and the resilience of survivors seeking justice. The episode underscores the importance of vigilance, accountability, and support systems in preventing and addressing abuse within educational environments.

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Resources and Further Listening

• Subscribe to CBC True Crime Premium on Apple Podcasts for full access to the series.
• Community Resources: If you or someone you know has been affected by sexual abuse, reach out to trusted individuals, sexual assault centers, or rape crisis centers in your area.
• Related Episodes: Listen to Season One of "The Band Played On" for more investigative stories.

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Produced by:
Julie Ireton, Allison Cook, Felice Chin, Ev St. Laurent
Special thanks to Maggie, Jennifer Chen, Amanda Pfeffer, Jen White, CBC Paul Podcasts, and Drake Fenton from CBC Ottawa.

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Disclaimer: The information presented in this summary is based on the provided transcript and aims to accurately reflect the content and tone of the original podcast episode.

Transcript

[Mattea Roach]

Hi, I'm Mattea Roach and I like to think that I know a little bit about a lot of different things. You know what's one thing I can never get enough of? Books. If you're anything like me, after you finish reading a great book, you probably have some burning questions for the author. You want to talk to all your friends about it. Every week I talk to the biggest, brightest and most interesting authors from Canada and around the world. You can find bookends wherever you get your podcasts.

[Julie Ireton]

This is a CBC podcast. I'm getting a bit of help to start this episode. Hi, this is my daughter. She knows all about my work. All about the rare times when adults cross the line with kids. Issues around boundaries, consent. I rattle on a bit about it.

[Jackie Short]

Yes, you do.

[Julie Ireton]

This kid will be 16 later this year. That's the same age as Anne Marie Robinson, Jeannie McKay and Jackie Short when they first had encounters with their music teacher. Jackie Short. We haven't met her yet, but we will soon. She's another band member. Jeannie's friend Jackie kept a diary throughout high school and she still has them all these years later. This is where my daughter is going to help me out reading those entries.

[Jackie Short]

Wednesday, September 26, 1979 Me, Jeannie, two other people with Mr. Walker went to Swiss Chalet for dinner. Mr. Walker brought up the subject of my new relationship.

[Julie Ireton]

16 year old Jackie Short wrote down just about everything that happened at school. She was in the Markham District High School band. It's in the Greater Toronto area. Same school, same band as Jeannie. Same teacher.

[Jackie Short]

October 2, 1979 Mr. Walker kissed me for my birthday.

[Julie Ireton]

She wrote in cursive, tidy looping letters with little circles instead of dots at the end of sentences.

[Jackie Short]

Thursday, November 15, 1979 Yesterday Mr. Walker told me that he told my boyfriend that he was damn lucky to have me and that if he hurts me, he'll kill him.

[Julie Ireton]

Jackie had red hair, tall and slim.

[Jackie Short]

Mr. Walker said to me today, I never noticed before, but you have great legs. Was I ever embarrassed?

[Julie Ireton]

Her daily passages describe unedited teenage experiences and her real time perceptions.

[Jackie Short]

Friday, March 9, 1980 Mr. Walker told me that he could easily get involved with me if I could handle it maturely and discreetly.

[Julie Ireton]

I'm afraid Jackie also witnessed something going on between her friend Rita and the teacher and her friend Genie. And there were also two others. One had brown hair, the other was a blonde. And then she worried about her sister who would start music soon.

[Jackie Short]

March 13, 1980 that's another thing Walker keeps hinting that if only he was younger, if only he wasn't a teacher. And the scary thing is that we could probably date.

[Julie Ireton]

It was a dilemma for this teen. She really liked her teacher, but was it right?

[Jackie Short]

Wednesday, May 14, 1980 Mr. Walker is coming on strong. He keeps saying stuff like, oh, you should hear about the dream I had about you. Or sometimes it's really hard to hold back.

[Jeannie McKay]

Some of the stuff he says really.

[Julie Ireton]

Scares me though, because Jackie Short figured it was already happening with the others. Jackie is now in her late 50s.

[Jeannie McKay]

And I'm just so happy that I past Jackie kept those diaries, you know, because even now it's got dates and places and names.

[Julie Ireton]

The band teacher I'm Julie Ireton. This is season two of the Band played on A music teacher taught in seven different schools. He kissed, hugged, dated and had sex with teen students. Relationships he normalized but kept secret.

[Jeannie McKay]

I feel angry, maybe more so at the administration who saw it going on.

[Rita]

I was probably well into my 30s before I really realized that he had actually knew what he was doing. Like it wasn't a one off kind of thing.

[Ann Marie Robinson]

I think that's one of the many things I learned after finding other victims is how brazen everything was and how out in the open.

[Julie Ireton]

Ann Marie Robinson is braced for this next step of her journey. Episode 6 the Diaries moments after Ann Marie and I found Jeannie McKay, Jeannie told her husband. Then she called her longtime friend Jackie Short. The next day Jackie sent me a note.

[Jeannie McKay]

Julie, I'm besties with Jeannie McKay. I was not raped by Doug Walker. But it wasn't for lack of trying on his part. I have many, many diary entries of details. I would be more than happy to turn everything over to you and help in any way I can. I can't believe I still have my 16 year old self diaries, but I do. Until then. Jackie Short.

[Julie Ireton]

Soon after I get her note, we speak.

[Unknown Interviewer]

So let's start off. Tell me, tell me your name. Telling me where you live, where you're from.

[Jeannie McKay]

Okay.

[Rita]

Jackie Short.

[Jeannie McKay]

I was born in Kingston, Ontario. I grew up in Markham, Ontario. I went to Markham District High School. I was heavily involved in sports and music.

[Julie Ireton]

Jackie and Jeannie were friends in high school, but not the kind who share their deepest, darkest secrets. Jeannie didn't share those with anyone. In fact, she didn't get too close with anyone at Markham High except her music teacher.

[Jeannie McKay]

Jeannie was very, very closed off about the whole thing.

[Julie Ireton]

The two women are close now and they have been for many years. They're both in their late 50s. Jackie's long dangling earrings peek below her short ginger hair. From her first email, I can tell Jackie is a firecracker. Quick wit, no filter, and still angry. Angry as hell.

[Jeannie McKay]

I think he's a horrible person. And you know, I went into music despite him, not because of him.

[Julie Ireton]

And oh yeah. Jacqueline Short is also a professional opera singer, a soprano. This is her singing in the Rake's Progress by Stravinsky. The CBC recorded it for Saturday Afternoon at the Opera several years ago. She's performed internationally. She also teaches at Western University in London, Ontario. Not surprisingly, she was a favorite of the music teacher.

[Jeannie McKay]

I did the choir and then I did the musical and then I played in the band as well. I had always been interested in music. We were one of those families that sang in the car in four part harmony. And my dad played the guitar and sang in the Barber Shoppers for a long, long time. And my mom sang in a kind of semi professional choir.

[Julie Ireton]

Like Ann Marie Robinson, Jackie Short chose the French horn.

[Jeannie McKay]

It's a very hard instrument to play.

[Julie Ireton]

She met the music teacher in grade 10. He started working at her school in January 1979, right after he left Anne Marie school.

[Jeannie McKay]

He was an enthusiastic teacher. He was sort of charismatic. He was very sort of wanted to be in with the kids.

[Julie Ireton]

Jeannie and Ann Marie have both mentioned this already. Jackie remembers he got close to girls.

[Jeannie McKay]

It was my 16th birthday that he. Yeah, he gave me a big kiss on the lips. He'd have his arm around you a lot. He would come up close, you would sit on his lap. Like it was normalized as a kind of congenial. I don't know, brother, father figure may not father, but until it became. Until he was like kissing you on the lips. And I also have a photo of him holding me and dipping me in a lot in a big dance move.

[Julie Ireton]

Which I've seen that photo and others of kids and the music teacher at tables covered in wine glasses and beer bottles, raising a toast to the camera. Big smiles.

[Jeannie McKay]

We were 16 and smoking and drinking and stuff like that.

[Julie Ireton]

She says. While he acted like a kid, he also let them know who was in charge.

[Jeannie McKay]

And then as time went on, he began to realize that he was prone to fits of anger. He would yell, he would throw kids out of band, he would threaten to take them off trips. So then I remember being thankful I was on the good side of that because I was a very good student. I was a decent musician, I guess.

[Julie Ireton]

Jackie Short's diaries are a window into what was happening and how she was feeling, oh, my God.

[Jeannie McKay]

It's horrifying to read what stuff I wrote.

[Julie Ireton]

It's embarrassing for her now, but Jackie's words signal the conflict inside a maturing mind.

[Jeannie McKay]

My next door neighbor kept a diary, and I thought it was kind of cool. And so I started. Keeping a diary was one of those little brown ones with the teeny little key. And I wrote in it in my little pencil. But anyways, it was about boys I liked and how much I weighed and what I wore to school and what marks I got and how my best friend was mad at me and, you know, just teenage stuff. And then luckily, I wrote a lot about the culture of the band and what was happening and how Walker would take us out for dinner and buy us all drinks. And we were 15, 16, 17.

[Julie Ireton]

She has sent me pages and pages and at first glance, it's cute.

[Jeannie McKay]

And then I included a lot of these details about Walker.

[Julie Ireton]

Then it's disturbing.

[Jackie Short]

March 14, 1980. Before the concerts, Walker called me over.

[Julie Ireton]

This is an entry from a band trip to the UK. She was 16.

[Jackie Short]

He explained that he was going to a country club tomorrow night with his billet. Free drinks, food, etc. But he needs a date. So he asked me if I wanted to accompany him and I said sure. I just thought, well, he likes me better than anyone else. What a guy.

[Julie Ireton]

But Jackie decided not to go with him after all. We'll hear more about that in a bit. Instead, he took another girl, Rita. Jackie had noticed something was going on with her even before the trip.

[Jeannie McKay]

So I noticed personally that there was some sort of close relationship between them and that they would leave or come back together at lunchtime and seem to be inebriated. She and he sort of smelled of the alcohol. But you're in grade 10, beginning of 11. But yeah, it was very noticeable that he was with Rita. And I saw him kissing Rita when we were on our band trip to England.

[Jackie Short]

March 14, still 1980. It seems that for the past few nights, Walker has given Rita a kiss on the lips. Good night. I'm getting scared for her. We hope there's nothing going on between Walker and Rita, although we're sure there is.

[Julie Ireton]

There was.

[Rita]

Sat down, put his arm around me, and then he said to me, I don't care what anybody thinks. My name is Rita. I was in grade 12 then, so I would have been 17.

[Julie Ireton]

Rita was a year older and a year ahead of Jeannie and Jackie. At Markham District High School.

[Rita]

We went to England and I remember him coming over and sat down beside me. It was couches and stuff all over this place and kissed me in front of like all the rest of the band members that were there.

[Julie Ireton]

For decades after high school graduation, Rita had no contact with Jeannie or Jackie and she moved far away from Markham.

[Rita]

I live in British Columbia.

[Julie Ireton]

Rita lives in B.C. with her husband. She works in the long term care sector and she still sees Jeannie from time to time. She's also in bc. Rita is private shy. Her old friends remember a smart, pretty, pretty girl. A bit of a wallflower.

[Rita]

I was pretty quiet.

[Julie Ireton]

She now wears a page boy haircut and glasses. Rita's asked me to only use her first name. What happened between her and the music teacher is still painful. It took Rita several months to respond to my invitation to chat. More time passed before she decided to do an interview. I realize these are not easy decision. Rita first met the teacher in 1979, a year before that band trip to the UK where there were public displays of affection. It had all started when Rita was 16.

[Jeannie McKay]

You know, I mean I had not.

[Rita]

Had a boyfriend or anything at that point. So it was, it was, you know, I guess I'd never felt like that before. So yeah, it made me feel special.

[Julie Ireton]

In our timeline, Rita comes after Ann Marie and, and before Jeannie. At the same school as Jeannie. All three women lost their virginity to their teacher. The women now realize he was seeing both Rita and Jeannie at the same time.

[Rita]

I think that, you know, if we compared notes in any, any way we would have figured it out and I was already suspecting.

[Julie Ireton]

Rita says he drove a wedge between her and Jeannie and he would tell.

[Rita]

Me things about her, like really terrible things and like to stay away from her. He did the same thing to her, told her terrible things and to stay away from me.

[Julie Ireton]

Rita remembers how it all started.

[Rita]

He took me to a romantic dinner in a French restaurant in Toronto and we went back to his house and ended up in his bed. And he made me believe too that, you know, this was going to go somewhere like that he wanted to live with me and things like that.

[Julie Ireton]

Ann Marie Robinson recognizes the tactics all too well.

[Ann Marie Robinson]

The talk of love and marriage was entirely a way to manipulate and groom me and make me feel some sort of obligation towards him.

[Julie Ireton]

In the late 1970s and early 80s, the music teacher was having sexual encounters with teens. Ann Marie, Rita, Jeannie and others. But he was also living with a woman, an adult, and she was a teacher. Walker was a busy man.

[Kathleen Goldhar]

When Derek Johnson was diagnosed with cerebral palsy, his family thought that he would never be able to speak. And then they met Professor Anna Stubblefield. And she believed that with the right technique, he could say what was on his mind. But what began as an opportunity turned into accusations of sexual assault. I'm Kathleen Goldhar, and this week on Crime Story, we dive into the complicated questions surrounding the doc. Tell them you love me. Find Crime Story wherever you get your podcasts.

[Julie Ireton]

And then there was a wedding. Jeannie McKay was there.

[Unknown Interviewee]

Well, he was getting married, and he. He got a bunch of us to be his free help. I guess we all went to the wedding and then went back and served drinks and served appetizers and picked up glasses and things. We felt like we were part of the party and we knew a bunch of the folks there.

[Julie Ireton]

At the music teacher's wedding, it was at his modest one and a half story home in Toronto. Jackie Short was there, too.

[Jeannie McKay]

He invited a number of students to go down. I think we were in grade 12.

[Unknown Interviewee]

I don't remember if any. I don't think any of the teachers from Markham High were at the wedding. Yeah, but we were sort of. It just felt like a big family.

[Jeannie McKay]

And we, you know, served alcohol, drank alcohol, and leader. I didn't know this at the time, but later Jeannie told me the details of that evening for her.

[Unknown Interviewee]

We fooled around in the basement at his reception.

[Jeannie McKay]

She and he were downstairs in the basement making out.

[Ann Marie Robinson]

I guess I'm just shocked at how brazen everything was and how Anne Marie.

[Julie Ireton]

Has now heard all these stories. A few times. She's come to know Jeannie, Jackie, and Rita, but every new detail makes her more sad, disgusted.

[Ann Marie Robinson]

I think that's one of the many things I learned after finding other victims, is how out in the open it was and how every time you talk to someone, everybody knew everything that was going on, but nobody did anything. Teachers knew in the 70s that you don't invite students to serve alcohol at your wedding. And then all kinds of other things happened there. It was just an unbelievable situation, and.

[Julie Ireton]

Jackie Short wrote it all in her diaries. Jackie sees maybe better than anyone the insidious nature of what went on and how it's wrongly interpreted.

[Jeannie McKay]

I think a lot of the problem is that people won't see this as rape with Jeannie and Anne Marie because it wasn't violent, but it didn't need to be violent because it was emotionally violent. You know, it was like a drop of water on an ice cube. It just slowly wore away at it. Right. And. And it. So it wasn't a smash because it didn't need to be. That wasn't his M.O. so that's what I think people think. Oh well, she wasn't raped. She consented. Well, she didn't consent. She was slowly led to having sex with a man who was double her age and her teacher.

[Julie Ireton]

And she says she witnessed that pattern repeat.

[Jeannie McKay]

Besides Jeannie and Rita, I also remember him being very. A similar vibe was given off with.

[Julie Ireton]

I'm not naming the three other girls Jackie mentions, just similar, similar vibes. These women did not consent to be part of the story, but I have verified there was similar inappropriate sexual behavior with them and also with others. Jeannie McKay is so glad Jackie has a record of these indiscretions thanks to.

[Unknown Interviewee]

Her amazing little diaries. Her little high school diaries that she cringes at now. You know we have a bunch of proof of dates and things she said.

[Julie Ireton]

Jeanne didn't feel free to keep diaries, but Jackie didn't need to keep it.

[Unknown Interviewee]

Secret and she knew that he was being despicable.

[Julie Ireton]

When Jeannie went to the Ontario College of Teachers to report Walker, her friends diaries became evidence. The college found him guilty of professional misconduct in 2001. Of course that's when the teacher said what happened with Jeannie was a blip.

[Unknown Interviewee]

Except it turns out I'm at least blip four and who knows if there's going to be blip 10, 15, 20. God forbid.

[Jeannie McKay]

Yeah, yeah. I think his whole teaching career was blippity blip, blip, blip after another. Right?

[Julie Ireton]

Jackie isn't sure why she held on to these journals for decades.

[Jeannie McKay]

I have no idea why. And yeah, they're excellent evidence because even though, because I'm not a so called victim, I do feel like this man has taken up more of my life than I need him to take up.

[Julie Ireton]

We've heard Jackie describe the teacher's kisses, hugs and come ons, but she says the sexual encounters with her teacher didn't go further than that.

[Jeannie McKay]

Jeannie didn't have any boyfriends in high school. I don't know if Anne Marie did, but I always had a boyfriend pretty much throughout high school, so maybe that was my luck. I think I was pulled into that path and somehow ran the other way. The stars did not align, or they did align and I wasn't a victim.

[Unknown Interviewer]

I appreciate that you say that you weren't a victim and I know that it wasn't at all in the same way that Jeannie was. But kissing a student on the lips.

[Julie Ireton]

Is, is actually sexual assault.

[Jeannie McKay]

Well, don't we know that now?

[Julie Ireton]

A teacher propositioning a kid is also against the law. Now, that's according to Canada's criminal code. There are laws against sexual assault, interference and exploitation. And buying students alcohol, dinner, special gifts, talking to kids about sex and their boyfriends would all be considered grooming behavior now. Now, these kinds of warnings are now featured in new training modules for teachers and coaches in some jurisdictions. But was it not at least considered inappropriate, if not plain wrong back then? It seems 16 year old Jackie certainly thought it was. She says so in her diary.

[Jeannie McKay]

Yeah.

[Julie Ireton]

Let'S go back to that passage she wrote in March 1980. I mentioned it earlier. The teacher invited her to accompany him to an event. At first she's flattered. Then the 16 year old writes.

[Jackie Short]

Then I sat down and thought, oh, what does this mean? It's a date. A rush of horror, sickness and fear went through me like I can't describe. I really didn't know what to think.

[Julie Ireton]

And in another passage, she and other students talked about what was going on with Rita.

[Jackie Short]

March 16, 1980. We don't care if he walks with her, sits with her on the bus, but that's not the end of it. He cuddles her and kisses her and it's just not right. No one respects Walker anymore because of Rita. I was talking to and she said he could lose his job for this.

[Julie Ireton]

So kids knew something was wrong. Where were the adults in high school after two years of this kind of drama? Jackie didn't care if he did lose his job. In the spring of 1982, the Markham District high school band was on another trip, this time in Germany. Jackie decided to do more than tell her diary.

[Jeannie McKay]

Well, I actually remember that conversation very, very well.

[Julie Ireton]

The band was on a boat tour on the Elbe river, some sort of river cruise. At that time, the river still separated east and west Germany. But all Jackie cared about was what she was witnessing between her friends and the music teacher. An administrator from her school was a chaperone on the trip.

[Jeannie McKay]

And I saw him standing by himself and I talked to him and I thought, well, this is my chance. Because this was late in the year I was going off to university. I figured, well, this is the time for me to say something.

[Julie Ireton]

She blurted it all out and I.

[Jeannie McKay]

Told him, I said, I know that Doug Walker has been carrying on with students. I probably at the time thought I knew for sure that he was involved with Jeannie. But I. We had never discussed it. So I told him about Jeannie. I told him about Rita, I mentioned other girls that I thought. I told him that he had propositioned Me a couple of times that I just spilled it. I said, he always was buying drinks for all the students.

[Julie Ireton]

She stopped so the administrator could react.

[Jeannie McKay]

Did the old. Well, well, yes. Oh, I see. Yeah, that was his reaction. And I guess we'll have to do some. You know.

[Julie Ireton]

What?

[Jeannie McKay]

Do something about this. And then there was. I was shaking. Like, I don't know if I was red or white. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know if I was heightened or drained. But at the end of it, I thought. I felt very brave. And I thought, oh, my God, I finally did something. And nothing was done. And my sister was in the band. And I remember thinking, something needs to be done because I don't want my.

[Rita]

Sister to be a victim.

[Jeannie McKay]

And then nothing was done. And that was horrifying. How could nothing be done? You know, shame on him, shame on Walker, but shame on that administrator.

[Julie Ireton]

I try phoning and emailing the former administrator. No luck. I even send him a letter by post. No response so far. And my questions and freedom of information requests to the school board have provided no answers. The board's response on official letterhead says no records exist. But we do know the music teacher left Markham High five years later.

[Jeannie McKay]

Were you able to find out eventually. Why? Like, who was the catalyst who got Walker out of Markham?

[Unknown Interviewer]

Don't know.

[Jeannie McKay]

Yeah, some girl. Maybe someone will come forward when all this hits a fan.

[Julie Ireton]

Maybe. Maybe we'll get answers. Why did he leave Markham High five years after Jackie Short blew the whistle? And why did he move schools four more times after that? Jeannie McKay has other concerns.

[Unknown Interviewee]

The fact that administration knew out and out knew anyone after me. Markham High School was a failure at protecting kids. The York School Board a failure at protecting kids. Yeah. So anyone that comes after me, it's so sad.

[Julie Ireton]

But Jeannie's never been prouder of her bestie. Jackie did the right thing when she was just a teen.

[Unknown Interviewee]

Jackie had the guts. She's always been this really amazing, ballsy lady, smart woman. And she knew that it was tearing friendships apart. And she knew it was wrong.

[Julie Ireton]

In the spring of 2022, I reached out to J. Doug Walker himself. I was about to produce an investigative series for cbc. My stories focused on what happened to Ann Marie Robinson and Jeannie McKay in high school. They hoped going public with me would prompt others to come forward. Walker responded to my inquiry. I get Ann Marie and Jeannie on a video call, and I fill them in about what their former teacher said.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Okay. So, as you know, I got in touch with him first. To see if he would talk to me. And then he said that he thought about it, he did some soul searching, and he decided he wouldn't do an interview because he's been through enough already.

[Unknown Interviewee]

Really?

[Ann Marie Robinson]

He. He's still avoiding responsibility? Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewee]

Yeah.

[Julie Ireton]

So I sent him a series of questions. Various allegations from the women, Starting with the night in Belleville in 1977 when Anne Marie says she was raped. I asked about the many sexual encounters with both Anne Marie and Jeannie in cars, hotel rooms, a music room closet. I ask him about propositioning and kissing Jackie. I ask about Rita and two other girls at Markham High.

[Ann Marie Robinson]

Okay, so now, Julie, tell us what he did. Okay.

[Unknown Interviewer]

This is the note I got last night, which I wasn't expecting quite so quickly because I only sent this to him yesterday afternoon.

[Julie Ireton]

Walker asked me not to publish his responses, but generally speaking, he insisted the encounters were consensual. He contested some details, and he didn't answer all my questions. There is one part. He said I could publish an apology quote. There are no excuses and no justification for my behavior. I was irresponsible, immature and arrogant. I am so sorry to have involved these outstanding and courageous women in relationships with which were inappropriate in all ways. I understand the negative effect this has had on them. Unquote.

[Unknown Interviewee]

It's nice that he's written that in words to you. He has not apologized to me. That is not an apology to me.

[Ann Marie Robinson]

I don't consider that an apology. I wanted. It's not taking responsibility.

[Unknown Interviewee]

Yeah. None of this actually takes responsibility. I'm not expecting an apology because it would. It would have come years ago if it was real. It would be from his heart and out of nowhere. I've been trying to find you for 14 years or whatever. I am so sorry. Right. That's an apology. This is not an apology. He's not sorry that he hurt us.

[Ann Marie Robinson]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewee]

He's sorry that he did it because he was going to get caught. And he eventually knew he was going to get caught. And that sort of democracy has been hanging over his head and it's been hanging there for all these years. It does not give us our childhood back. It doesn't give us our virginity back. It doesn't give us our. Our high school, healthy, high school, joyful experience back. Doesn't give us back the nights that we were awake with anguish or shame. I don't. It's just a statement, and I just don't care. I don't. I don't want to be in touch with him. I don't want his Apology. I don't want money from him. I'm so over him. My concern is my healthy life with my family. My new sister.

[Julie Ireton]

She means Annemarie. And there is something that sister wants from the teacher.

[Unknown Interviewee]

Anne.

[Julie Ireton]

Annemarie brushes the hair from her eyes.

[Ann Marie Robinson]

I would love to know. I would love.

[Julie Ireton]

She's out of the shadows. Her sister is with her. She knows exactly what the teacher can do for all of them.

[Ann Marie Robinson]

I would love him to systematically list all of these victims. And I would like the school board to take whatever steps are reasonable to now have restitution for those victims, whether. Whatever kind of support. I don't know what shape they're in. I know this had such a profound impact on both Jeannie and I. So I suspect that there's people in trouble and I haven't. We have no idea how many, but I think there's a lot.

[Julie Ireton]

The deputy minister is back. Walker doesn't provide a list, but maybe he doesn't need to. My initial stories about Ann Marie and Jeannie go to air and online in the spring of 2022.

[Jeannie McKay]

This is World Report. Good morning. It is Monday, May 9, from CBC News.

[Julie Ireton]

CBC uncovers a dark history of alleged sexual abuse involving an Ottawa man who taught music in the Toronto area. The story is seen and heard across Canada.

[Jeannie McKay]

The allegations date back to the 1970s and 80s. Those coming forward say their cases were either missed.

[Unknown Interviewee]

He taught music for a quarter century in the Toronto area. And victims allege the crimes were missed, ignored or minimized by school administrators, the military and even the police.

[Julie Ireton]

The response is immediate. I hear from former students, now men and women, and I'm not the only one getting feedback. I check in with Jeannie and Annemarie.

[Ann Marie Robinson]

I feel great. I mean, when it came out, I was like, it was kind of like a slow feeling of feeling good and a little bit trepidatious and all of that, but feeling good, oh, my God.

[Unknown Interviewee]

Like, I. I went to bed thinking, that's it. I don't have to think about them. It's done. I'm done. And then in my. In the morning, there's the. You're in the inbox. And other people are in my inbox.

[Julie Ireton]

I read them some of the emails I received during those five years.

[Unknown Interviewer]

I played the trumpet in multiple bands under the direction of Doug Walker. I just read your article. It left me reeling. I was witness to the drinking and the sexual innuendo. I was never comfortable around Mr. Walker. And I believe he knew that I was not a victim of his abuse. My heart breaks for those who who were, I am gutted. Thank you for bringing these stories to light. I hope more people come forward and those who let this happen are held accountable.

[Julie Ireton]

And then Jeie reads us some Facebook posts from a group she's part of.

[Unknown Interviewee]

I remember him taking us to the Howard Johnson bar on Markham Road at the hotel. And he took me to the hotel room there once. And this other gal, I don't know her, Denise Cable, she says, I was told one time for a test, I could either play the music piece or neck with him. He says, shocked, I just stood there and began playing. He used to take the students into the storage room to have us play our test. But obviously there was another reason.

[Julie Ireton]

Wow.

[Ann Marie Robinson]

The full, full story has to keep coming out. So what are you going to do now, Julie, with this?

[Unknown Interviewer]

I'm hoping that we hear from the.

[Julie Ireton]

Port Credit Credit person. I'm referring to the alleged punch at Port Credit Secondary School. It's a story Anne Marie has repeated since I met her. Walker told her the father of a music student hit him. The father alleged something had gone on between his daughter and the teacher. It happened in Walker's first year of teaching. But we don't even know if this story is true.

[Unknown Interviewee]

And then we're going to talk with.

[Julie Ireton]

Our new girl tonight, another woman who alleges she was abused as a teen.

[Ann Marie Robinson]

She said she wanted to talk to us and she was so happy to know she wasn't the only one.

[Julie Ireton]

Anne Marie was right. There are other women out there, others they can help. This new survivor also went to Markham High, where Jeannie, Jackie, and Rita went. Her experience happened five years after Jackie told the administrator.

[Ann Marie Robinson]

He reported him after Eugenie and. And then this woman we're going to meet tonight, like, it's unbelievable. But then when I got that email this morning, it was so just finding her, and she was so clear and articulate.

[Julie Ireton]

The email reads, I am the reason Doug Walker was transferred from MDHS in 1987. I do not want my name published anywhere now. However, despite my lifelong shame about this incident, I would be happy to talk further to anyone involved in this case. Best regards. Next time on the Band Teacher survivors from across the country meet up for the first time and newly found victims tell us their stories.

[Unknown Interviewee]

He said to me, you know, it.

[Jeannie McKay]

Wouldn'T take much for me to lose control.

[Unknown Interviewee]

Sometimes it's hard for me to remember.

[Jeannie McKay]

That I'm 39 years old.

[Ann Marie Robinson]

And your teacher, all he cared about was himself. Like, his whole reaction. Yeah, his whole reaction was, well, what about my life? What about my family? Like no empathy, no sympathy.

[Julie Ireton]

The Band Teacher is Investigated Report recorded, written and hosted by me, Julie Ireton. Allison Cook is the story and script editor, producer, sound designer and mixer. Felice Chin is our Executive Producer and story editor. Ev St. Laurent is our legal advisor. Thank you to Maggie for lending your voice for this episode. Jennifer Chen, Amanda Pfeffer and Jen White provided valuable production advice. Special thanks to the folks at CBC Paul Podcasts for their support and the Managing Editor of CBC Ottawa is Drake Fenton. If you want to binge the whole series, subscribe to CBC True Crime Premium on Apple Podcasts. Just click on the link in the show description or binge listen for free by logging in to CBC Listen. If you like this podcast, I have another original investigation that might interest you. That's the band played on Season one. All episodes are available right now. Wherever you get your podcasts. If you or someone you know has been sexually abused, community resources can help. Reach out to a trusted person sexual assault center or rape crisis centre in your area. For more CBC Podcasts, go to CBC CA Podcasts.