S33 E6: The Others | Calls From a Killer

Summary

Uncover: Calls From a Killer – Episode S33 E6: The Others

Podcast Information:

• Title: Uncover: Calls From a Killer
• Host/Author: CBC
• Episode: S33 E6: The Others
• Release Date: June 23, 2025
• Description: This episode delves into the chilling interactions between reporter Arlene Bynon and Clifford Olson, one of Canada's most notorious serial killers. Through secret jailhouse calls, Arlene uncovers buried secrets about Olson's crimes, police failures, and the lingering pain of his victims' families. Joined by Peter Worthington and Nathaniel Frum, the episode exposes hard truths about a forgotten tragedy and the manipulative mind of a killer.

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1. Introduction and Personal Connection

Nathaniel Frum’s Story: The episode begins with Nathaniel Frum recounting a personal encounter that profoundly impacted his life. At the age of 12 or 13, Nathaniel received a cold call from Clifford Olson, a convicted serial killer.

• [00:45] Nathaniel Frum: “I had just spoken for half an hour with a serial killer, a big one.”

This unexpected interaction left Nathaniel in a state of panic as he realized he had been communicating with someone capable of horrific crimes.

2. Arlene Bynon’s Jailhouse Calls with Clifford Olson

Secret Communications: Arlene Bynon, alongside Peter Worthington, conducted hundreds of hours of secret phone calls with Clifford Olson while he was incarcerated. These calls were kept hidden from prison guards as Olson was not permitted to speak to the media.

• [03:47] Arlene Bynon: “From the moment Clifford Olson was sentenced to life in prison, he started trying to cut a second cash for bodies deal.”

Olson’s Manipulation: Olson attempted to negotiate deals for information on additional murders, hinting at his involvement beyond the eleven convictions.

• [04:18] Clifford Olson: “We have to use logic. If I'm never gonna be released in Canada...then if I ever got out, they could extradite me.”

3. Connections to Other Murders

Olson and the Green River Killer: Olson suggested he was linked to the Green River Killer murders in Seattle, a claim that initially intrigued Arlene and Peter but was later dismissed by authorities.

• [05:04] Arlene Bynon: “He was betting that the Seattle Green River murders had no leads, which the Attorney General later confirmed was unlikely.”

Contradictory Statements: Throughout the calls, Olson’s stories often contradicted each other, casting doubt on his credibility regarding other murders.

• [08:25] Kathy Lamberton: “She was 30.”
• [08:53] Arlene Bynon: “Clifford Olson: I was down in the States after I got out.”

4. The Disappearance of Verna Bejerki

Kathy Lamberton’s Involvement: Kathy Lamberton, a friend of Verna Bejerki, becomes a pivotal figure in uncovering Olson’s potential involvement in Verna’s disappearance.

• [10:08] Kathy Lamberton: “Verna wanted to go see her boyfriend... and Verna got in the front and I got in the back.”

The Fateful Encounter: Two days before Verna went missing, she and Kathy hitchhiked and were picked up by Olson. Although they reached their destination safely, Kathy remained convinced that Verna became a victim.

• [14:11] Arlene Bynon: “Kathy recognized Olson, and the sight of him triggered a frightening memory.”

Olson’s Inconsistent Admissions: While speaking to Olson years later, Kathy felt validated by his hints, though he never directly admitted to Verna’s death.

• [22:03] Arlene Bynon: “She'd found out which prison was housing him and went through the process to mail an inmate.”
• [22:39] Kathy Lamberton: “I think maybe in some of his letters he hints at it and teases.”

5. Police Investigation and Cash for Bodies Deal

Public Backlash: Following Olson’s initial confession and the subsequent cash for bodies deal, public opinion turned against the police, limiting their willingness to engage further with Olson.

• [27:50] Arlene Bynon: “Authorities had been chastised by the public and had very little appetite to deal with Olson again.”

Ongoing Theories: Despite Olson’s retractions and apologies, Peter and Arlene continued to believe in his involvement in additional murders based on logic and behavior patterns.

• [28:13] Arlene Bynon: “Peter and I were operating on sheer logic. Olson was a diagnosed severe psychopath...”

6. Evidence and Behavioral Patterns

Olson’s Target Selection: Olson meticulously selected victims who were vulnerable, often from broken or lower-income families, making it easier for him to exploit and conceal their disappearances.

• [24:27] Nathaniel Frum: “He had an instinct for all this... Kathy is convinced that Olson had one final advantage.”

Sophisticated Deception: Olson used fake business cards and checks to appear legitimate, enticing victims into his trap.

• [24:51] Clifford Olson: “I says, we're building construction company...”

7. Ongoing Efforts and Unresolved Cases

Kathy’s Search for Truth: Kathy has tirelessly pursued answers about Verna’s disappearance, organizing searches and consulting various experts, yet the case remains unresolved.

• [30:02] Kathy Lamberton: “I think somebody will stumble across them one day somewhere. If you feel strongly about something and the police aren't doing anything, just keep doing it yourself.”

Police Stance: The RCMP maintains that there is no evidence linking Olson to Verna’s disappearance, classifying her case as a runaway.

• [23:01] Arlene Bynon: “The investigation into her disappearance remains open and that... there is currently no evidence to link Verna's disappearance to Clifford Olson.”

8. Conclusion and Reflections

The Final Call: In the concluding moments of their interactions, Olson reveals his intentions to escape prison, signaling the end of any productive communication.

• [30:50] Clifford Olson: “I am leaving the Kingston Penitentiary on an escape...”

Unanswered Questions: The episode closes with lingering questions about the true extent of Olson’s crimes and the unresolved cases that may still haunt families like Kathy’s.

• [29:34] Clifford Olson: “We are not striking any deal with you, Clifford Robert.”

Call to Action: Kathy encourages others to persist in their search for truth, highlighting the importance of relentless pursuit even when official investigations falter.

• [30:02] Kathy Lamberton: “If you feel strongly about something and the police aren't doing anything, just keep doing it yourself. That's what I say. Just keep going.”

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Key Takeaways:

• Manipulative Nature of Clifford Olson: Olson's ability to manipulate and deceive was evident in his interactions, seeking personal gain through information on additional murders.
• Investigative Challenges: The cash for bodies deal and public backlash hindered effective investigation, potentially allowing Olson to obscure more of his crimes.
• Unresolved Cases: Personal stories like Kathy’s highlight the ongoing pain and uncertainty faced by victims’ families, emphasizing the need for continued vigilance and investigation.

Notable Quotes:

• Nathaniel Frum ([00:45]): “I had just spoken for half an hour with a serial killer, a big one.”
• Clifford Olson ([04:18]): “We have to use logic. If I'm never gonna be released in Canada...”
• Kathy Lamberton ([10:08]): “Verna wanted to go see her boyfriend...”
• Kathy Lamberton ([30:02]): “If you feel strongly about something and the police aren't doing anything, just keep doing it yourself.”

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Final Thoughts: “Calls From a Killer” offers a haunting exploration of Clifford Olson’s manipulative interactions with those seeking the truth. Through personal narratives and investigative journalism, the episode sheds light on the complexities of uncovering hidden crimes and the enduring quest for justice by the families affected.

Transcript

[Nathaniel Frum]

10 years ago I asked my partner Kelsey if she would marry me. I did that despite the fact that every living member of my family who had ever been married had also gotten divorced. Forever is a Long Time is a five part series in which I talk to those relatives about why they got divorced and why they got married. You can listen to it now on CBC's Personally. This is a CBC podcast.

[Arlene Bynon]

The following episode contains descriptions of violence and sexual assault. Please take care when listening.

[Nathaniel Frum]

When I was about 12 or 13 years old, I was staying at my grandparents house in Toronto. Pete was at work at the Toronto sun newspaper and my grandmother was out running errands with my sister. This would have been in 2005 or 2006. So my grandparents had a landline which rang constantly. I always answered, that was a house rule. You never knew who would be calling. This time it was a collect call from somewhere in Quebec. I accepted the charges and a man with a friendly voice and a thick Canadian accent was on the other end. He asked if I was Peter's grandson. I said yes and we started chatting. I remember him as really friendly and curious. He asked where I was from. I said Washington D.C. he said he knew it well. What part? I told him. We talked about what my parents did for a living, school, all sorts of stuff. He asked if he could talk to my grandfather. I told him Pete wasn't there but I could take a message. I wrote down his name on the message pad. Clifford Olson. I proceeded to doodle as he continued talking. Then as the call wound down, he said, oh, by the way, your grandpa might say I killed a bunch of people. Don't listen to that and hung up. I grabbed Pete's computer and googled Clifford Olsen and I started to freak out. I had just spoken for half an hour with a serial killer, a big one. My grandparents come home and my grandma is furious. Olson should be calling Pete at the office, not at home. She'd protested this before. Pete's sort of amused and asked what Clifford and I talked about. I'm still in the midst of panicking, but both of them assure me that Olson is locked up far away. He wouldn't be breaking out and coming to Toronto to me. But that's not why I was upset. As I lay in bed that night, I kept thinking of how that voice was the last voice so many children my age heard, how it would have twisted with anger. He sounded friendly as someone who grew up in America. His Canadian accent was disarming and a little funny to me. And he got so Much information out of me after making me feel he was harmless. He was a predator and he was good at it. Clifford Olson was cunning. He was excellent at sniffing out the vulnerabilities that made someone a good target. Understanding how he chose his victims can both tell us about how he was able to get away with it for so long and provide important clues. Because Clifford Olsen was only charged with 11 murders, but we believe there were many more. This is calls from a killer from CBC's Uncover. I'm Nathaniel Frum.

[Arlene Bynon]

And I'm Arlene Bynon. This is episode six, the Others. From the moment Clifford Olson was sentenced to life in prison, he started trying to cut a second cash for bodies deal. And not just for murders he had committed. At times, Olson claimed to me he knew about murders all across the United States.

[Clifford Olson]

You gotta look at it this way. We have to use logic. If I'm never gonna be released in Canada, therefore, if I cop out to murders and everything I know in Seattle or again along down to California, down to Illinois and New York and Florida, then if I ever got out, they could extradite me. You follow me?

[Arlene Bynon]

He also suggested to me and Peter that he was responsible for multiple murders in the Seattle area committed by a then unknown suspect labeled the Green River Killer.

[Clifford Olson]

And I'm betting 100 to nothing that they haven't got a goddamn thing on the Seattle Green river murders or the other murders. No, no, they got nothing on that, right? Nothing gives a shit what they talk about 11 kids because they don't know nothing.

[Arlene Bynon]

And I'll be honest with you, I thought that was very possible. I knew from the BC Police investigation that Olson traveled the roads down the west coast, which aligned with the killings. But I'd later traveled to Seattle, driving those same roads with his lawyer, and visited the state Attorney general, Robert Keppel. After I put to him all that Olson had been saying, Keppel told me it was a dead end. It was highly improbable Olson was their guy. At other times, Olson switched tack and said he merely knew the identity of the murderer. This Green river fellow doesn't have any idea. He still thinks he's your friend.

[Clifford Olson]

Well, we are. We're pretty close, you know.

[Arlene Bynon]

In 2001, Washington police finally caught another man and charged him with the Green River Killer's crimes. His name was Gary Ridgeway, and he was convicted of 49 separate murders. He'd later claimed to have slain as many as 80 women throughout the 80s and 90s. Yeah, but you're gonna turn him in?

[Clifford Olson]

Well, if I can Get a deal. Yeah. You know, and who cares? I'm after the. Put some book money together in that and get a thing going, you know? Hey.

[Arlene Bynon]

During these calls, Ridgeway was still at large, half a continent away from where Olson was imprisoned. I found it unlikely that the two of them had ever crossed paths. Well, I mean, I thought you were doing it for the good of mankind. That's what you said.

[Clifford Olson]

It is the good of mankind, but it's going to be done to where I'm not going to give them something for nothing at what I'm getting at, you know, You're a reporter. Yes. You make money by selling articles.

[Arlene Bynon]

Olson was a greedy man and a gifted snitch. So even though he pulled off the hugely controversial payment deal over his own murders, a decade later, he was still angling to capitalize off the killings of others or comfortable confessing to murders he didn't commit.

[Clifford Olson]

But this way, if I can put a deal together and be cooperative and give them bodies and give them all this, then I can say, okay, this is what I've done. Maybe you can help me out for parole. That's what I'm doing. But what can I get out of the deal is what I'm saying. I don't mind pleading guilty to the B.C. murders, the Alberta murders and the Ontario murders. That's nothing, because it's concurrent time. You get what I'm getting at.

[Arlene Bynon]

But if the bottom line was knowledge of murders paid, even if it was false, how were Peter and I going to squeeze the truth out of him? So you were involved in other murders?

[Clifford Olson]

Yes.

[Arlene Bynon]

And that because of deals, we're not finding out about them.

[Clifford Olson]

Right.

[Arlene Bynon]

Part of the reason I wanted to interview his wife, Joan, was that I'd be able to cross reference some of Olson's more outlandish claims. If Olson was on vacation with her in bc, for example, on the day he claims to have killed in California, it would be a good indication to save my energy through talking with Joan. I believed he was responsible for the murder of a sex worker who'd been hanging around their San Francisco hotel. The girl in California, she's about 16 years old.

[Kathy Lamberton]

Mm. She was 30.

[Arlene Bynon]

Once, during a particularly tedious phone call, Olson admitted to this killing, but he walked it back the very next day. As usual, one conversation would often contradict the next. We've established that Christine Wheeler was not the first murder.

[Clifford Olson]

Oh, no. The stage was.

[Arlene Bynon]

Yeah. When was that? Was that the. Was that the one with the. Seattle?

[Clifford Olson]

1978.

[Arlene Bynon]

1978. With the Seattle guy?

[Clifford Olson]

Yeah.

[Arlene Bynon]

Okay. But what about in 70? Wasn't there some connection?

[Clifford Olson]

Nothing in 73.

[Arlene Bynon]

73?

[Clifford Olson]

No, no. I was down in the States after I got out. I made many trips down there. But we didn't have no killings down there. No, no. 78 is the first killings on the big trip down there. Why did I have 73 down there?

[Arlene Bynon]

But despite Olson's constant attempts to muddy the waters, there is one name that emerges clearly in the tape many times.

[Clifford Olson]

You know who I'm talking about? Yes. Verna Bejerki. That's who I'm talking about.

[Arlene Bynon]

Verna Bejerki.

[Kathy Lamberton]

If she wanted to go somewhere, she would just go. She'd just get on a bus and go. But she always let somebody know where she was going.

[Arlene Bynon]

This is Kathy Lamberton. She's talking to me from her home in Hope, B.C. about her dear friend Verna from 40 years ago.

[Kathy Lamberton]

Verna was kind of like a wild child. She was like a free spirit. She loved partying. She was always happy, smiling, hazel eyes, blonde hair. She had a gap between her two front teeth, which is her most noticeable feature. I don't recall anyone disliking her ever. Yeah, she was just always on the go. She had a job at 16 working at the Godfather restaurant in Hope. Hope is a little town nestled amongst many mountains. It's just got one little main street, just regular everyday people. Everybody knows everybody. We never locked our doors. Kids were always out. It was literally like you came in when the street lights came on. One little tiny post office. It's like literally just a little, little town. But all highways connect here. You cannot go anywhere in B.C. without going through Hope.

[Arlene Bynon]

When's the last time you laid eyes on Verna?

[Kathy Lamberton]

She left my apartment the afternoon about one o' clock on May 2, 1981. She was going to see her boyfriend in Kamloops. She was wearing jeans, a light blue shirt and a pair of roller skates.

[Arlene Bynon]

Kathy was 19 at the time and Verna 16. Unlike most young people in the area, they treated hitchhiking like another mode of public transport, even if they understood it could have its dangers.

[Kathy Lamberton]

Before she left, I gave her a knife and I said, verna, get him in the eyes. And that's the last thing I said to her. That was Saturday and then Wednesday her mom came to the door and said verna never came home.

[Arlene Bynon]

A day later they reported her missing.

[Kathy Lamberton]

Her mom and I drove all the way to Kamloops and back, looking in the ditches, creeks, back roads. So we started right then.

[Arlene Bynon]

And in the decades since, Kathy hasn't stopped thinking about Verna, nor stopped trying to get to the bottom of her disappearance.

[Kathy Lamberton]

I've organized searches, like big searches. I've gone to see psychics, tons of stuff. I've had interviews with the coroner, the head investigator, judges. I've written letters to lots of people, including yourself, Peter Worthington.

[Arlene Bynon]

She'd read in one of Peter's articles that he and I had been interviewing Clifford Olson. Then she saw me on tv.

[Kathy Lamberton]

I thought maybe one of you could help. And you both actually at least had some answers. More than the police actually did.

[Arlene Bynon]

She wrote letters to me and Pete. Knowing we talked to Olson. She told us she suspected that he was involved in Verna's disappearance for good reason.

[Kathy Lamberton]

Well, he was right on the very front page of the province paper on August 13th. And I went, oh, my God, that's the guy that drove Verna. And I. I instantly knew that that was who had killed her or made her disappear. I don't know why, but I did. I knew.

[Arlene Bynon]

Kathy recognized Olson, and the sight of him triggered a frightening memory. She and Verna had gotten into his car while hitchhiking just two days before Verna went missing.

[Kathy Lamberton]

Verna wanted to go see her boyfriend. He worked on the trains and they were stationed in Kamloops. It was like a little green, like an olive green Rebel. I don't know if you remember those cars, but me too. Yeah, it was like that. And Verna got in the front and I got in the back. He just looked like a middle aged, very chubby man. Just a regular middle aged man. So we kind of felt safe, I guess. I had a knife in my hand open in the back seat the whole time. Yeah. First he started trying to push beer on us, make us drink beer. And then he just kept asking, are you sure? Are you sure? Sure you want a beer? Come on, girls, stuff like that. Anyway, I refused. And I wouldn't allow Verna to take it either.

[Arlene Bynon]

But you thought she might. Was she reaching for it?

[Kathy Lamberton]

She was going to. So I said, no, no, you're not doing that. Verna. We're not here to drink beer. We're here to go to Kamloops. Then he had a big bag of peanuts in the middle of the front seat.

[Arlene Bynon]

Alarm bells start ringing for Kathy louder and louder.

[Kathy Lamberton]

He was just creepy. He just kept talking about how his wife wouldn't have sex with him because of the baby and was ruining his life and just weird stuff he was talking about.

[Arlene Bynon]

At some point along the journey, traffic is halted by road construction.

[Kathy Lamberton]

We sat for about 30 minutes and then he got out of the car because he was getting angry that we were stopped. And so he walked up a ways, I guess, to see what was going on. And that's when me and Verna were talking, and that's when she said she was scared. And we. We were gonna get out of the car, but we were in the middle of nowhere. Anyway, we ended up staying in the car, and he did drop us off in Kamloops.

[Arlene Bynon]

The fact that two girls eventually made it to their destination is one of the reasons why Kathy is so sure Verna became a victim. If he offered her another lift from the same spot in Hope only two.

[Kathy Lamberton]

Days later, yeah, she probably would have thought, well, he let us out, so he's okay. She probably thought he was a little bit of a weirdo, but he let us out.

[Arlene Bynon]

So when you went to the police and you saw the picture and you said, hey, my girlfriend's missing, is he this man that you believe is connected with these killings? We were in that car, yeah. How long did it take for them to follow up after you said those things to them?

[Kathy Lamberton]

I don't even know if they've still followed up on that. I've never heard. Another thing.

[Arlene Bynon]

Taylor Jenkins Reid is a literary superstar. You might know her from her previous books, the Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo or Daisy Jones and the six. On my podcast, Bookends, Taylor told me all about her new space thriller and also got into how she deals with being a celebrity author.

[Kathy Lamberton]

That's what I've been working on lately.

[Arlene Bynon]

Is understanding that there's a person named Taylor Jenkins Reid and they talk about her, and sometimes she has things in.

[Kathy Lamberton]

Common with me, and other times, someone's.

[Arlene Bynon]

Perception of me is different than the real me. If you want to hear more of that conversation, check out bookends with Mattea Roach. Wherever you get your podcasts. Verna's case remains open. In October 1981, police found some of her belongings about five miles outside of Hope on the north side of the Fraser river, but no remains before he was arrested in the same year. It's quite possible Olson saw or read something about Verna's disappearance in the news. It's also very possible he knew and couldn't help uttering her name for other reasons. After being apprehended for murder, Olson teases this to RCMP Corporal Fred Malee during questioning.

[Nathaniel Frum]

This bejerky thing just bugs the shit out of me.

[Clifford Olson]

Why?

[Nathaniel Frum]

Because you can't have done it according to what I know.

[Clifford Olson]

I mean, why don't you know what.

[Nathaniel Frum]

Well, Joan says that you're with her all day.

[Clifford Olson]

And you know, Joan could be all wet, too.

[Arlene Bynon]

I mean, it's not as simple as. So you didn't do it?

[Nathaniel Frum]

From my point of view, I don't know.

[Clifford Olson]

Joan can be mistaken.

[Arlene Bynon]

But during his first psychiatric interview, Olsen changes his story yet again.

[Clifford Olson]

Do you know of Bejerky? Bejerki? Yes, I know of her, yes. Of what I've read in the. The paper. She's a girl from Hope. Yes. What did you have anything to do with. No, I don't know her at all. She went missing on May 1st. That night I was at Jones mom's place. Her brother was with us. But you did not kill her. No, I never met the girl. Never met her? No.

[Arlene Bynon]

Ten years after this tape, Olsen told me and Peter he was responsible for Verna's death. He was trying to put together a second cash for bodies deal offering information on more killings and the location of more bodies.

[Clifford Olson]

So you have Jameson's body, you have Darlington's bodies, you have ways body, but Journey Berkeley, you haven't got hers. Okay, well, I'm not saying which order we're going to go in, but these are. Okay, we'll put burn up jerky.

[Arlene Bynon]

Unfortunately, we could never ourselves get much further on this case. As you've heard, Olson's side of the conversation was 95% bluster, evasion and lies. But there were a number of reasons why she could reasonably have been another of Olson's victims, and that we still find Kathie's theory compelling today. Verna disappeared on May 2, 1981, when Olson wasn't recorded to be in custody for drunk driving or something or other. She was known to hitchhike, and that day her route would cut right through Olson's old hunting ground. I learned from Joan that Olson loves snacking on peanuts when driving. A detail Kathy couldn't have known when she and I first spoke. We also know now that Olson often selected victims he'd interacted with before. Kathy has also done an impressive amount of research on Olson's movements leading up to Verna's disappearance. She believes that he was at a bank and a campground in the area just days before Verna went missing. But perhaps the biggest step forward for Kathy in her quest for confirmation is Olson's own words to her.

[Kathy Lamberton]

And then, in 1996, I started writing Olson.

[Arlene Bynon]

She'd found out which prison was housing him and went through the process to mail an inmate.

[Kathy Lamberton]

I asked him why he did not kill the two of us that day. He Picked us up in the car. And his answer was because I'd never killed two people before at once. When I actually heard it from him, I started bawling because that's when I realized that I could have been dead that night too.

[Arlene Bynon]

Did he admit he killed Vernon to you in those?

[Kathy Lamberton]

No, he does not admit it. I think maybe in some of his letters he hints at it and teases.

[Arlene Bynon]

Kind of typical for Olson.

[Kathy Lamberton]

It just validated what I already knew. But it didn't validate for the police, I guess.

[Arlene Bynon]

We recently reached out to the RCMP to get an update on Verna's case. They told us that the investigation into her disappearance remains open and that, quote, there is currently no evidence to link Verna's disappearance to Clifford Olson. Back then. The theory they gave Kathy is that Verna was a runaway. Something she's never accepted. Why? You know, what was it about Verna that you think made them feel that way? Did they look at her family? What were the criteria, do you know?

[Kathy Lamberton]

Well, probably because she was only 16. She was living at home, but she was living at my house also.

[Arlene Bynon]

You called her a wild child. Did they believe that as well? Was that a factor, do you think?

[Kathy Lamberton]

I have no idea. She was just fun. She was a fun person.

[Arlene Bynon]

The reason I asked this was because we'd seen this pattern so many times before. Olson could smell any kind of vulnerability in a potential victim. Or at least he could sense what would make them a less prioritized case of for an eventual police investigation. Lower income parents who were divorced or separated kids in so called broken homes.

[Nathaniel Frum]

That was the selection of targets. But how he'd get them into the car, lower their guard and keep them comfortable before attacking. That was expertly thought out too. In my grandfather Pete's boxes, I found phony business cards and checks for a fake construction business. Olson would use those to try to prove to his victims that he was legit.

[Clifford Olson]

That's when I spotted Louise. So I picked her up. She wasn't hitchhiking, she was walking around. So I picked her up and I says, you're working. She told me, she's working at Vino's. I says, yeah. And I says, well, listen, do you want to work for me? I says, we're building construction company. I says, here.

[Nathaniel Frum]

I says, if the potential victim took him up on a menial job offer, it was a sign they came from a family that needed cash, which would lead to the next check. He'd ask if they wanted to call their parents or guardian and tell them where they were going.

[Clifford Olson]

I then told her that she could work for me tomorrow morning, that I would like to meet her grandma that night so she knows where she was at. She said she was 13 years old. Well, she says we should wait till tomorrow to meet her grandma because it was late at night.

[Nathaniel Frum]

If the child replied that there was no need, it meant no one would be looking for them. Once he had them in the car, he would offer some convoluted reason to go elsewhere.

[Arlene Bynon]

And when the journey was extended a little while longer, he'd offer a beer, which was almost always laced with chloral hydrate pills that Olson got from his doctor. Mixed with alcohol, they would knock you out. That's when the attack would begin. Olson was not a highly intelligent man, but he had an instinct for all this. Maybe it was all the years he spent being churned through the justice system and behind bars with other offenders. Kathy is convinced that Olson had one final advantage. She believes that Verna would have been added to the list of Olson's victims. But because the RCMP had already settled on the payment and they knew they'd secure a conviction, they felt no need to up the already substantial figure.

[Kathy Lamberton]

They could have added another 10,000 for Verna. I believe once they had those children found and everything, they felt that the problem was solved. He was in jail. It was over. And they were rude to her mom about the whole thing, too.

[Arlene Bynon]

In what way?

[Kathy Lamberton]

They told her they do not absolutely. For the last time, they do not believe Olson killed Verna. And she's probably in the river somewhere.

[Arlene Bynon]

Besides Verna, Peter and I felt that Olson should have been the key suspect for the disappearances of several other young people in the years leading up to 1981. When Olson tried to put together a second cash for bodies deal in 1982, he had the additional victims names ready to go. He even shared them in a letter he wrote from prison to then Prime Minister Brian Mulroney.

[Clifford Olson]

The complete files of the murders and rapes of the following named persons in the province of British Columbia are Carmen Robinson from Victoria, B.C. marnie Jamison from Gibson, B.C. gil Ann Wiese, w e y s from Canal, B.C. verna Bergerki from B.C. helen Hopcraft from B.C. pamela Darlington.

[Arlene Bynon]

But by January the next year, he'd retracted those claims in a letter to the Toronto Star newspaper and apologized. The police said they doubted he'd ever been involved in most of those cases. What Peter and I were operating on was sheer logic. Olson was a diagnosed severe psychopath who derived extreme pleasure from torturing sexually Assaulting and killing young people. He had had a criminal history dating back to his teens. Yet the first murder he confessed to was committed just before he turned 40 years old, which is delayed for an offender of his kind. Olson also traveled constantly, driving hours away from home, often crossing the border into the US and back again. It didn't make sense to Peter and me that he'd only kill on Canadian territory. Then there was the backlash to the cash for bodies deal, which acted like a shield. Authorities had been chastised by the public and had very little appetite to deal with Olson again, even if he was coming to them with names of potential victims, a fact he acknowledged. And you're saying they said, we're not striking any deal with you, Clifford Robert.

[Clifford Olson]

Olson, at this time? Yes. Okay.

[Arlene Bynon]

Do you think that's because they were gun shy, because of everything?

[Clifford Olson]

Oh, definitely, Definitely. My God.

[Arlene Bynon]

The only reasonable conclusion we could come to, and that I still maintain, was that there were more victims and that Verna Bergery was one of them. Have you given up, Kathy, or do you think Verna's remains will ever be found?

[Kathy Lamberton]

I think so. I think somebody will stumble across them one day somewhere. If you feel strongly about something and the police aren't doing anything, just keep doing it yourself. That's what I say. Just keep going.

[Arlene Bynon]

After years talking to Olson, years of picking up the phone only to hear admissions and retractions, lies and deception, I was increasingly feeling that I had gotten all I could out of him. But it wasn't until what he told me next that I was finally done with Clifford Robert Olson.

[Clifford Olson]

But to make things perfectly clear to you, and I don't want to alarm the public, and I'm not doing this for Norah, as people say, but I am leaving the Kingston Penitentiary on an escape. Sooner or later, I'm making my plans and they can do what they want, but they're not. But to be able to hold me.

[Nathaniel Frum]

That's coming up on the final episode of Calls From a Killer. Calls From a Killer was written and produced by me, Nathaniel Frum, Arlene Bynon, and senior producers Ashley Mack and. And Andrew Friesen. Mixing and sound design by Evan Kelly. Emily Connell is our digital producer. Executive producers are Cecil Fernandez and Chris Oak. Tanya Springer is the senior manager, and Arif Nurani is the director of CBC Podcasts. If you are appreciating Calls from a killer from CBC's uncover and want to hear more stories like this one, be sure to follow our feed so you never miss. Miss another season. There are over 30 seasons for you to check out right now. If you're already a follower, thank you. Tune in next week for an all new episode of Calls from a killer from CBC's uncover. Or you can binge the whole series by subscribing to our True Crime Premium channel on Apple Podcasts. Just click on the link in the show description. For more CBC Podcasts, go to CBC CA Podcasts.