S34 EP1: Welcome to Squamish | Dirtbag Climber

Summary

---

Dirtbag Climber: S34 EP1 – "Welcome to Squamish"

Podcast: Dirtbag Climber from Uncover (CBC)
Host: Stephen Chua
Release Date: September 8, 2025

---

Overview: A Mysterious Murder in Squamish

The season premiere of Dirtbag Climber sets the stage for a true crime odyssey into the 2017 homicide of "Jesse James"—a mysterious rock climber found dead in Squamish, B.C. The episode introduces listeners to Jesse's enigmatic life, shifting identities, and the Squamish climbing community’s struggles with his memory and unresolved death. Local reporter Stephen Chua embarks on an investigation that promises to unravel not just a crime, but the complicated portrait of a victim who lived several lives.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Legend of Jesse James: A Climbing Enigma

• Opening Scene [00:39–01:29]:
  The episode begins with a vivid description of a YouTube video featuring Jesse free-soloing a daunting route—"Taking his life in his hands because if his hands give out, he'll fall 40 ft onto hard granite."
  Jesse embodied the ‘dirtbag climber’ lifestyle: living nomadically, sleeping in vehicles, working just enough to get by.

• Ambiguous Background [01:39–02:12]:
  Despite his presence in the climbing world, Jesse’s backstory was an open secret.
  "I didn't think James was his real name, I thought Jesse was his real name. Everybody knew that the full name probably wasn't real." — Jackie (Climbing Buddy), [02:05]

---

2. Discovery of the Crime

• The Scene at Cat Lake [03:19–05:50]:
  Rob Carrick, site manager at Cat Lake, describes finding Jesse’s burned-out SUV:
  "He'd hide his face with his hands and it was fairly obvious that he was deliberately trying to hide from me." — Rob Carrick, [03:51]
  Routine abandonment of torched vehicles was common, but this time there was a body inside.

• Police Investigation [05:50–06:54]:
  Corporal Frank Jang of the Integrated Homicide Investigation Team reveals: "The autopsy later confirmed that the victim died of a gunshot. It is obviously a homicide..." — Corporal Frank Jang, [06:47]
  The climbing community reels, and rumors fly about the killer and Jesse’s real identity.

---

3. Who Was Jesse James?

• Layers of Identity [07:33–08:22]:
  Jesse’s history was a puzzle, full of deliberate obfuscations and adopted personas.
  "He's a puzzle. He really is. It would take three years to figure that one out." — Stephen Chua, [07:35]

• Dirtbag Climber Culture & Community [08:52–10:45]:
  Stephen discusses his entry into the Squamish scene and the closed nature of climbing circles after a death. His own climbing experience helps him gain trust and access.

• Jesse, the Philosopher-King [12:26–13:15]:
  Friends recall Jesse’s intellectual bravado and online musings, including blogs (Whippers and Tears, Killer Strangelet) and poetry.

  "He tried to pretend he was some kind of philosopher king. Philosopher climbing king, if you want." — Jackie (Climbing Buddy), [12:26]

---

4. Jesse's Public and Private Lives

• Activist & Troll [14:06–15:35]:

  • Advocated for diversity in the climbing world: "He'll call out the companies, saying, 'They are hypocrisy...they don't have any diversity in their board or their sponsor athletes.'" — Zhou Wong (Climbing Friend), [14:37]
  • Wrote a self-published book, The Psychology of Seduction, listing improbable credentials: Israeli Defense Force officer, physicist, AI developer.

• Doubts & Tall Tales [16:22–16:42]:

  • Friends express skepticism about Jesse’s many claims: "If he was IDF special forces soldier, he'd be a lot bulkier..." — Jackie, [16:32]

• Partner’s Perspective [17:21–21:13]:

  • Eva McLennan (using the alias Abby Garbanzo), shares that Jesse was secretive, security-obsessed, and believed to possess vast crypto wealth:
    "Reports of his wealth are greatly underestimated. He was a crypto billionaire." — Eva McLennan, [20:55]
  • Their nomadic lifestyle and use of pseudonyms were, according to Eva, precautions stemming from his wealth.

---

5. Wealth, Paranoia, and Rumors

• Wads of Cash [22:14–23:54]:

  • Stories circulate of Jesse flashing piles of cash, but friends are unconvinced:
    "He sure didn't show any of it. He wasn't like giving away money to his friends... he never appeared rich or poor." — Jackie, [23:54]

• Online Infamy [24:15–27:35]:

  • Jesse’s abrasive online persona alternated between offering tips and trolling, sparking outrage and even threats.
    "He was a dick towards experienced climbers because I think he has a problem with authority." — Jackie, [25:20]
    Examples of his forum tirades and the anger they provoked are read aloud, highlighting his divisiveness.

  • Violence Speculated as Motivation [26:59–27:35]:

    • "Somebody who didn't like him, really got to him... very likely a climber, took a gun out and shot him." — Jackie, [27:57]

---

6. The Outlaw Motif and Real Identity

• Jesse James, the Outlaw [28:13–29:13]:

  • The episode draws parallels between the legendary American outlaw and the Squamish climber, both chased by danger and living under assumed names.

• The Unmasking: Davis Wolfgang Hawke [30:31–31:04]:

  • After years of mystery, police confirm: "The victim's actual name remained unknown until recently, when it was confirmed as Davis Wolfgang Hawk." — Corporal Frank Jang, [30:41]
  • Hawk’s path: numerous aliases (Bo Decker, Johnny Durango, Dave Bridger), but originally born Andrew Britt Greenbaum.

• The Fallout [32:16–33:14]:

  • Discovery of Hawk’s past triggers a flood of mixed reactions, from outrage to rumors about motives spanning debts, betrayals, and international intrigue.
  • "A lot of people might want this person to be hurt." — Host/Interviewer, [32:16]
  • "He was fundamentally a Nazi." — Jackie, [33:11]

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The reason a lot of people climb is so that they could forget about things. Because when you're on the side of a cliff, you know, everything goes away. You're just trying not to die.” — Jackie (Climbing Buddy), [01:29]
• “Vehicle is a generous description of what he found.” — Stephen Chua, [04:23]
• “The autopsy later confirmed that the victim died of a gunshot. It is obviously a homicide...” — Corporal Frank Jang, [06:47]
• "I didn't think James was his real name ... Everybody knew that the full name probably wasn't real." — Jackie, [02:05]
• “He’d sleep somewhere else...she believed he did that because of security. And I kept saying to her, why do you think that he didn't sleep in the same place? And she said, security. Security.” — Host/Interviewer paraphrasing Eva, [19:25]
• “If he was IDF special forces soldier, he'd be a lot bulkier than what he was.” — Jackie, [16:32]
• “He has two Personas on social media...he jokes around and troll people and cause controversies, getting some people very mad.” — Zhou Wong, [25:00]
• “Jesse James equals Internet troll. If you see trolls, they grow and become more annoying. Everyone go easy on Jesse James, fellas. Probably been up all night fighting off women.” — Read from forums, [25:59]

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:39] Introduction to Jesse James and his free-soloing in Squamish
• [03:19] Discovery of the burned-out vehicle
• [05:50] Police confirm homicide; community reactions
• [07:35] Journalist's struggle to uncover Jesse’s identity
• [12:26] Jackie on Jesse’s “philosopher king” persona
• [14:37] Jesse’s advocacy for diversity in climbing
• [16:22] Implausibility of Jesse’s self-professed resume
• [17:21] Eva McLennan on Jesse’s secrecy and "security"
• [20:55] Eva’s claim of Jesse as a 'crypto billionaire'
• [23:54] Friends discuss the inconsistencies of Jesse’s supposed wealth
• [25:00–26:54] Jesse’s abrasive online presence and the resulting hostility
• [30:41] Police reveal Jesse’s true identity: Davis Wolfgang Hawk
• [32:16] Fallout and the growing suspect pool

---

Tone & Style

The episode alternates between the moody intimacy of a true crime probe and the rough camaraderie of the climbing world. Stephen Chua’s narration is personable and curious, blending skepticism with empathy as he teases out details from Jesse’s world.

---

Conclusion

This episode expertly sets up the mystery not just of a murder, but of a man with myriad personas—enigmatic, controversial, and polarizing. As Stephen Chua notes, "If at this point you're thinking this is a story about a rock climber who is murdered for his crypto fortune or because he rubbed the wrong climber the wrong way, well, you might be right, but you might also be totally wrong." [30:07]

The unmasking of Jesse as Davis Wolfgang Hawk—just one of many names—paves the way for a deeper dive into a story with roots far beyond the climbing cliffs of Squamish.

---

Next Episode Tease:
As more secrets unravel, the series promises to probe Hawk’s dark past and controversial legacy, hinting at even deeper and more sinister revelations.

---

Transcript

[Host/Interviewer]

Did you know most people only have three? Go to podcasts.

[Rob Carrick]

Well, we like a challenge. Here are three reasons World Report should be in your top three.

[Host/Interviewer]

One, we wake up early so you don't have to. Our producers are hard at work even before the sun rises.

[Rob Carrick]

Two, we cover all the news you.

[Stephen Chua]

Need from Canada and around the world.

[Host/Interviewer]

And three, the best part, it's just 10 minutes long. You can catch up quickly and still have time for your other favorites.

[Stephen Chua]

Follow World Report wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jackie (Climbing Buddy)]

This is a CBC podcast.

[Stephen Chua]

This is the sound of a pixelated YouTube video from 2017. In it, a young man in a red long sleeve shirt and cowboy hat is climbing a rock face called Talking Holes. The wind is blowing. It's an overcast day. Small cedar trees lean over the sheer rock face. He's in Squamish, bc, considered the climbing capital of Canada, to be more specific. He's not just climbing, he's free soloing, which means he has no ropes. He is literally taking his life in his hands because if his hands give out, he'll fall 40ft onto hard granite. The climber's name is Jesse James.

[Jackie (Climbing Buddy)]

The reason a lot of people climb is so that they could forget about things. Because when you're on the side of a cliff, you know, everything goes away. You're just trying not to die.

[Stephen Chua]

This is Jackie, a friend of Jesse's. When you guys were climbing together, did he ever tell you anything about, like, where he came from, his background?

[Jackie (Climbing Buddy)]

No, no, he didn't. And the thing in climbing is that it's kind of a soft rule that you don't really ask. Put it this way, a lot of people climb, at least back then, to get away from stuff.

[Stephen Chua]

And Jackie was pretty sure Jesse James was getting away from stuff.

[Jackie (Climbing Buddy)]

I didn't think James was his real name. I thought Jesse was his real name. Everybody knew that the full name probably wasn't real.

[Stephen Chua]

But what was he hiding behind that name? And why have a fake name at all? Jackie didn't press that question too hard. All Jackie cared about was that Jesse was someone who wanted to climb just as much as he did.

[Jackie (Climbing Buddy)]

I remember once he would jump on a harder climb and he'd say, yep, yeah, I'll jump on this. If I break my legs, I'll break my legs.

[Actor/Voice Actor]

Yeah, you got it. Come on.

[Jackie (Climbing Buddy)]

So he'd always. He'd be pushing, pushing what he can do.

[Stephen Chua]

Jesse was a strict vegan. He was tall and very thin.

[Jackie (Climbing Buddy)]

He kind of almost like looked a bit anemic to Jackie.

[Stephen Chua]

Jesse was the embodiment of a dirt bag climber. Someone who lives to climb, sleeps anywhere. Nomadic, working only enough to live day to day.

[Jackie (Climbing Buddy)]

Every time I've seen him or I talk to him, he's always camping. Like I said, nomadic lifestyle. So he was living in, what do you call in Squamish. He was living in his van or truck or whatever vehicle he had at the time.

[Rob Carrick]

He'd park his vehicle right here.

[Stephen Chua]

I'm standing on the road that leads up to the Cat Lake recreation site. It's a beautiful stretch of forest, dense with cedar, hemlock, Douglas fir trees just north of Squamish. It's a spot where Jesse would often camp in his truck and he'd be.

[Rob Carrick]

Sitting here in his vehicle and yeah, he had a good outlook on any vehicle that was coming into the site.

[Stephen Chua]

My tour guide is former Cat Lake site manager Rob Carricko.

[Rob Carrick]

When I approached, he'd hide his face with his hands and it was fairly obvious that he was deliberately trying to hide from me. You know, I thought it was a bit suspicious for sure.

[Stephen Chua]

On the morning of June 14, 2017, Rob was there to unlock a gate for a student group.

[Rob Carrick]

And I was actually at an appointment later on, so I was in a bit of a hurry when I discovered the vehicle.

[Stephen Chua]

Vehicle is a generous description of what he found.

[Rob Carrick]

Yeah, I've got a picture of it somewhere.

[Jackie (Climbing Buddy)]

Let's see.

[Rob Carrick]

What time did I take this photo? 9:41am that was the morning of the. When I discovered the vehicle, they toasted.

[Stephen Chua]

The shit out of it. There in the photo under towering trees is the husk of a large suv. It's so charred that it's impossible to tell the color. The fire was so intense that black burn marks extend onto the ground and encircle the truck.

[Rob Carrick]

So anyway, I took a picture and that was it, left the scene.

[Stephen Chua]

And the truth is the scene wasn't all that surprising to Rob.

[Rob Carrick]

Over the years I've seen countless burned out vehicles.

[Stephen Chua]

What? What do you mean?

[Rob Carrick]

You know, basically insurance scams or stolen vehicles torched or, you know, I don't know.

[Stephen Chua]

So if you need a, if you need a vehicle torched, this is your spot.

[Rob Carrick]

One of them, yeah.

[Stephen Chua]

But a few hours later Rob would learn that this wasn't like the other cars he'd found before. This vehicle and his picture had something a lot more sinister hiding inside the body of Jesse James.

[Corporal Frank Jang]

On June 14th of 2017, at around 9:30 in the morning, the Sea to Sky RCMP received a report about burnt vehicle in a forest road in Squamish.

[Stephen Chua]

This is then Sergeant Frank Jang from the Integrated Homicide Investigation Team at a press conference explaining details from the case.

[Corporal Frank Jang]

Now, when they examined the vehicle, they found human remains inside the vehicle. Now, after speaking with the members of the Squamish community, we learned that our victim went by the name of Jesse James.

[Stephen Chua]

Squamish is a small town and the climbing community is even smaller. Everyone knew or knew of Jesse James. This press conference only amplified that recognition. Messages like thank you, Jesse, for being my friend, that big personality is gone. And Jesse was an inspiration in the climbing community poured in. People wondered whether this was some kind of freak accident. But then police revealed the truth.

[Corporal Frank Jang]

The autopsy later confirmed that the victim died of a gunshot. It is obviously a homicide that we.

[Stephen Chua]

Know Jesse James was murdered. And his death caused a big storm on social media. There's a killer on the loose in Squamish.

[Actor/Voice Actor]

There's a killer on the loose in Squamish. Someone hunting.

[Stephen Chua]

Was someone hunting him?

[Actor/Voice Actor]

I don't know what kind of forensics the police have, but knowing him very well, it would be extremely likely he would fake his own death somehow, especially if he thought his cover was blown.

[Stephen Chua]

Did anyone actually know his real name?

[Actor/Voice Actor]

Did anyone actually know his real name?

[Stephen Chua]

That was something the police wanted to know, too. Who was Jesse James?

[Corporal Frank Jang]

It was clear that this person lived a deliberately private life.

[Eva McLennan (Partner)]

Well, he had a lot of secrets.

[Stephen Chua]

He's a puzzle. He really is. It would take three years to figure that one out. And that would be just the beginning. Because Jesse's death and the discovery of his true identity would trigger a landslide, causing all of his secrets to come tumbling down.

[Rob Carrick]

His story is, if you read it as fiction, you'd consider it just to be too far fetched and unbelievable.

[Stephen Chua]

My name is Stephen chua and from CBC's uncover this is Dirtbag Climber, the story of the murder and many lives of Jesse James. Are you telling me that he's deceased? Yeah. So he was murdered. Well, I'm surprised it took that long. You know, very often people like that do wind up dead.

[Corporal Frank Jang]

It is truly a mystery. It is truly a case of who done it.

[Stephen Chua]

I bet he provoked lots of people. And whoever killed him was, you know, first in line. I only care about things that impact me. Chapter One. Welcome to Squamish. What a. What a Gong Show.

[Actor/Voice Actor]

This is a Gong Show?

[Stephen Chua]

Yeah, it's spring in Squamish and the climbers are out in force. Oh, my God. So, yeah, we're now we're at the smoke Bluffs. This is the most popular spot to climb in Squamish. And as you can see, it's a total shit show. My producer, Chris Kelly, and I are driving around trying to find a place to leave the car. I'm gonna have to park somewhere else. Located halfway between Vancouver and the mega ski resort of Whistler, Squamish is quaint. It's dotted with craft breweries, a disc golf course, a farmer's market. But the town wasn't always this way. For decades, it was a rugged logging town. But people have always been trying to get to the top of mountains. And if there is one place that says Squamish more than any other, it's the Squamish Chief. This is the Chief right here. Yeah, right there. Right off the highway as you drive into town is the Chief. Three giant granite peaks jutting out towards the sky. This would put Squamish on the map. And every climber or hiker who comes here wants to know what it feels like to stand on top. So when you moved here, though, were you a climber? No. Well, that's a fun. I think I'm like one of the only people I know that moved here not to climb or do any of the outdoor fun things here. I moved here for work. I moved here to work at the local newspaper, the Squamish Chief. Like all reporters at a local paper, I'd cover it all, from the school district to court cases to municipal hall to the latest search and rescue mission. But in my downtime, I found this small town, at least at first, pretty boring. And I realized if I didn't pick up something like rock climbing, I'd be miserable. Okay, you're on belay climbing. I'm on. Back at the smoke Bluffs, I'm halfway up a 20 foot wall. How you doing up there, Stephen? Having a ball. Over the years, I've gotten decent at this. But back in 2017, I was just learning the ropes. Little did I know it would help me land the biggest story of my life. Tell me about the day that you had to report out the murder. I was in the newsroom and all of a sudden, like this press release pops into our email inboxes and it says that the Integrated Homicide Investigation team is working on a case. There's been a murder. And it was definitely, maybe it was the point when I was just like, oh, this small town is not quite as sleepy as I thought it would be. After Jesse's death, the climbing community was not exactly rushing out to talk to the media. They were pretty tight lipped, but I had an advantage over some of the other reporters in town. I'd started to climb. It's happening. Okay. Do you have any questions before we start?

[Jackie (Climbing Buddy)]

Just go for it.

[Stephen Chua]

While I never met Jesse in the climbing scene, it is how I met Jackie.

[Jackie (Climbing Buddy)]

Well, the thing is, it's like, I think it's important to get the history out, whether it's good or bad. Either way, I mean, what comes. The chips fall where they may, right? Like, I mean, you can't hide the past, but you shouldn't hide whatever after the past either, right?

[Stephen Chua]

Jackie is not his real name. For the purposes of this podcast, he asked that we refer to him by a pseudonym. Because as you'll find out, being associated with Jesse can have its repercussions. What did you make of him? Did you like him? Did you. What did you get out of.

[Jackie (Climbing Buddy)]

I liked him. Yeah, I know I liked him. He would talk, he would argue about anything. He would argue about life, food, right? He tried to pretend he was. He was some kind of philosopher king. Philosopher climbing king or something, if you want.

[Stephen Chua]

Jesse would capture these big ideas on the blogs he operated. One he called Whippers and Tears. That's where he would write about his climbing experiences. And his other one, the Killer Strangelet, was filled with philosophical musings and poetry.

[Actor/Voice Actor]

On the dusty desert plains, a horseman rides alone. And in the evening redness, this horseman finds a home.

[Stephen Chua]

This is an actor reading one of Jesse's poems, a poem that speaks directly to his philosopher king Persona.

[Actor/Voice Actor]

I've come upon you in the night, but have you any fare? Step aside, the hermit says. My food and drink I share before the dawn. The hermit dies in a heap of blood and bone. A crimson sunrise in the east as the horseman rides alone.

[Stephen Chua]

Jesse was very, very online. He bought and sold websites. He was obsessed with chess and would play virtual games with players around the world.

[Jackie (Climbing Buddy)]

He actually, I heard him say to me, it's like he's a chess grandmaster or master or something.

[Stephen Chua]

He was also active on the Squamish Rock climbing forums and Facebook groups, posting his takes on the sport. And sometimes this included fighting for more representation of minorities in climbing, Something that after his death would gain a lot of attention.

[Jackie (Climbing Buddy)]

I think this was about seven or eight years ago. The sponsorship community, all their. All their ambassadors or sponsored athletes were white. All white. But he would say, like, you know, there's not enough minorities as sponsored climbers or athletes or why are they sponsoring all these other people?

[Stephen Chua]

Jackie wasn't the only Climbing friend of.

[Zhou Wong (Climbing Friend)]

Jesse's who noticed this, he's very focused on diversity.

[Stephen Chua]

Actually, this is Zhou Wong.

[Zhou Wong (Climbing Friend)]

He'll call out the companies saying, oh, they are hypocrisy. You know, they talk about diversity, but actually they don't have any diversity in their board or their sponsor athletes. So he's an advocate for minority.

[Jackie (Climbing Buddy)]

Actually.

[Stephen Chua]

Joe saw Jesse as a friendly guy to go climbing with, but remembers that he could also be pretty elusive.

[Zhou Wong (Climbing Friend)]

I asked him what does he do for work? He just brushed it off. He said he doesn't have to work, he has money already. He's very minimal. Talking about his past, he would say, in the past, I am from New York and I moved up here because I want to climb, you know. And he used to be no professional, but semi pro or high level amateur tennis player. And he also play chess and he do investment and that's why he already has enough money, he doesn't have to work. And he also told me he wrote a book too. He sent me a link.

[Stephen Chua]

The name of that book, Psychology of Seduction. Seduce Women using Evolutionary and Social Psychology. The Author, Jesse James, 4.2 stars, $26.18 on Amazon @ that time.

[Zhou Wong (Climbing Friend)]

You know, among the young people, a lot of young men climbing, of course, dating is a topic, you know, here's the book's description.

[Stephen Chua]

In the Psychology of Seduction, Jesse James merges the shady world of the pickup artist with modern science, unraveling the mystery of attraction. Jesse James is a Canadian rock climber, disruptive technology pioneer, artificial intelligence developer, author and adventurer. Jesse holds a theoretical physics PhD from Stanford and, and served as an officer in the Israeli Defense Force.

[Jackie (Climbing Buddy)]

I heard he'd brag about how he was an IDF Special forces soldier or stuff like that. Right now you laugh at that though.

[Stephen Chua]

But like, why do you laugh at that?

[Jackie (Climbing Buddy)]

It's like, you know, he's not you, you know, he's not. So it's just like, I mean, if he was IDF specialist force soldier, he'd be a lot bulkier than what he.

[Stephen Chua]

Was, AI developer, physicist, soldier, New Yorker, diversity warrior. Was Jesse any of these things and did they have anything to do with his murder? After his death, there was a rumor that a group of Israelis were staying at the campground on the night of the crime. He'd also made a big announcement on social media about selling some AI tech to a Silicon Valley firm. And that evening he was allegedly supposed to buy a website. Did any of this connect his climbing buddies? Couldn't say. But there is someone who is quite close to Jesse who might Know more. She was even with him on the night of his murder.

[Eva McLennan (Partner)]

I was camped not far away from where he was.

[Stephen Chua]

His partner, Eva.

[El Amin Abdul Mahmoud]

Okay, so how come a film about a Canadian icon, John Candy, produced by a Canadian star, Ryan Reynolds, kicking off Canada's biggest film festival still doesn't count as a Canadian movie? Well, to understand weird little nuances like that, you just have to listen to commotion. We're doing TIFF and 12 every single weekday during the Toronto International Film Festival, and we have our best critics in town explaining stuff like this all in under 12 minutes. Find commotion with me, El Amin, Abdul Mahmoud, wherever you get your podcasts, including YouTube.

[Eva McLennan (Partner)]

I knew he was smart. I knew he was rich, and that we'd get along like a house on fire.

[Stephen Chua]

There was so much about Jesse James that was mysterious. Even his partner, Eva McLennan, had to accept that she didn't know everything about him.

[Eva McLennan (Partner)]

Well, he had a lot of secrets, and I was evidently shielded from a lot of. But I can't say what drives somebody to murder.

[Stephen Chua]

Yeah. Eva declined to be interviewed for this podcast. So all we have are the statements she made to the press in 2021. But Yvette Brend is a CBC journalist who spent time with her after Jesse's death.

[Host/Interviewer]

Eva is utterly fascinating. She met Jesse James at a climbing gym in Victoria. She was very young and met this very charismatic, as she described it, intelligent man who fascinated her. She ended up moving to Squamish and living out near Cat Lake with Jesse. She had changed her name. She'd taken on a pseudonym, Abby Garbanzo. She was clearly very in love with him and had great admiration for this older man.

[Stephen Chua]

You mentioned her alias, Abby Garbanzo. Maybe you could tell me a little bit more about why she took one.

[Host/Interviewer]

She said that that was something that Jesse had encouraged her to do. He was very concerned about security for some reason. She described how when they would go to bed at night when they lived out at Cat Lake, they had a sort of a routine, and they'd say goodnight, and they. She would go sleep and he would sleep somewhere else. Sometimes in his truck, sometimes somewhere else. But she believed he did that because of security. And I kept saying to her, why do you think that he didn't sleep in the same place? And she said, security. Security. I said, well, what do you mean, security? And she said, oh, he thought people were gonna kill him. You know, he knew he was in danger.

[Stephen Chua]

Where was she on the night of the murder? She was sleeping.

[Host/Interviewer]

She woke up a little bit late, didn't understand why she hadn't heard from Jesse because that wasn't their routine. So she wandered down the road.

[Stephen Chua]

Jesse's SUV wasn't where he usually slept.

[Host/Interviewer]

And couldn't find him and became concerned.

[Stephen Chua]

It was parked or potentially moved about a kilometer from his usual spot.

[Host/Interviewer]

And of course the burned out vehicle was found that day. And she said she was kind of in a dissonant state. And then the police took her and told her, and she had to accept.

[Stephen Chua]

Wasn'T unusual in Squamish, that Jesse and Eva slept out in the woods and spent their days climbing. But there were questions about how Jesse was able to maintain even his meager lifestyle and never have to work.

[Eva McLennan (Partner)]

Reports of his wealth are greatly underestimated. He was a crypto billionaire.

[Stephen Chua]

Eva believed that he had made hundreds of millions from crypto and people were after it. She even talked about his wealth after he died to a reporter at a local CTV news station.

[Eva McLennan (Partner)]

This is somebody who lived with extensive anonymity. And the reason for that explained to me is just the fact of his large wealth in cryptocurrency putting him at potential risk.

[Host/Interviewer]

You know, I think when I first started looking into this, it seemed to me like everybody that first hears about this guy, someone was after his money because as any journalist knows, follow the money. Right? But it's unclear how much information he ever shared with anybody about his keys or his crypto.

[Stephen Chua]

What have the RCMP said?

[Host/Interviewer]

Well, that's where it gets muddy, right. Because the police have never said much what, what's been done to investigate that crypto. What's been done to, to look into everybody that knew him. I know that people were telling them and feeding them suspects and saying, look into this person. This person was in his life. This person didn't like him. How many of them they followed up on. Kind of unclear.

[Stephen Chua]

In the absence of information from the police, rumors of Jesse's wealth circulated throughout town, including one that involved a local cafe.

[Rob Carrick]

He was a regular customer at a cafe and he got talking to the owner.

[Stephen Chua]

This is Rob Carrick again, the guy who found Jesse's burned out truck.

[Rob Carrick]

He was going on about all his exploits and fabulous wealth and whatnot. But the cafe owner was sort of thinking, you know, he's got all this millions of dollars and he's living in a truck by the side of the road. That doesn't seem right. And I guess he gave him the sort of look that he wasn't believing his story. The next day he came in with two shopping bags full of cash wads of American I think it's American hundred dollar bills as far as I recall, and plunked them on the counter just to, you know, establish his veracity, you know, as a credence.

[Stephen Chua]

Yeah, so Rob has this kind of Right. We actually checked with a cafe owner and he said that Jesse was often paying with $100 Canadian bills. And one day he pulled out a huge wad of cash and threw it on the counter. He described it this. Open your hand like you are trying to grab two pop cans. That's how big these rolls of money were. Jesse told him that he kept at least $15,000 on him at all times. But if Jesse was a crypto billionaire, Jackie, Jesse's climbing buddy, never saw it.

[Jackie (Climbing Buddy)]

Then people said he had a lot of bitcoin because if he did, he sure didn't show any of it. He wasn't like giving away money to his friends, you know, his girlfriends at the time weren't, you know, spending massive amounts of money, you know, or, you know, doing stuff. And he never appeared rich or poor, like he was just standard climber.

[Stephen Chua]

And while Jackie saw Jesse as a standard climber, that doesn't mean he didn't see a different side, a darker side.

[Jackie (Climbing Buddy)]

It's like that character from Batman, the two faced guy or jerky and Hyde.

[Stephen Chua]

Right?

[Jackie (Climbing Buddy)]

That's what it is.

[Actor/Voice Actor]

If I disagree with beliefs you hold, I will ridicule the shit out of you.

[Stephen Chua]

This is an actor reading from some of Jesse's posts to climbing forums.

[Actor/Voice Actor]

Some people are just plain stupid and would be better off bolting single pitch sport.

[Stephen Chua]

In person, Jesse might have been a charming philosopher king, but online his true unfiltered self came out fat.

[Actor/Voice Actor]

Slobs who think burgers and fries is a concession stand will be waddling up to the stadium glacier.

[Zhou Wong (Climbing Friend)]

He has two Personas on social media. He has a good side where he show people the tips on climbing. And then he had another side that he jokes around and troll people and cause controversies, getting some people very mad.

[Stephen Chua]

And there is one group in particular that was often the target for his venom.

[Jackie (Climbing Buddy)]

He was a dick towards experienced climbers because I think he has a problem with authority.

[Actor/Voice Actor]

Climbing companies don't sponsor minorities because they want to portray the white hard man image. Rock climbers who accept sponsorships from defense disreputable companies like Red Bull embarrass themselves and the sport they represent.

[Stephen Chua]

He called sponsored climbers a lot of horrible names, including things like genetic mutants.

[Actor/Voice Actor]

They should be ashamed of themselves.

[Jackie (Climbing Buddy)]

People got really mad at him, like there were people threatening him and Just attacking him left, right and center.

[Actor/Voice Actor]

Jesse James, you've been on here spouting bullshit on several. Jesse James equals Internet troll. If you see trolls, they grow and become more annoying. Everyone go easy on Jesse James, fellas. Probably been up all night fighting off women.

[Stephen Chua]

Jesus, man. It must be hard for you to journey through life with such an enormous ego.

[Actor/Voice Actor]

Jesse James, you continue to come across as a bit of a meth head. I am looking forward to telling you this to your face someday.

[Jackie (Climbing Buddy)]

You gotta remember, there's a certain subset of climbers, like, most people are pretty chill, right? But there's a subset of climbers which are very hard on what they perceive to be right and wrong. And then there's a very small subset who get very angry and violent about it, right? They'll go out, they'll destroy other people's climbs. They'll, you know, they'll rip everything out. They'll, you know, they'll do all type of stuff, right?

[Stephen Chua]

But could one of them really get angry enough to kill?

[Jackie (Climbing Buddy)]

My first thought is that somebody who didn't like him really got to him. Like they just, you know, went out there and killed him. That's my first thought.

[Stephen Chua]

Your first thought. That's interesting. I mean, yeah, he was a shitposter, but you think someone would kill him over something like that?

[Jackie (Climbing Buddy)]

I think somebody would kill him over some stuff like that.

[Stephen Chua]

Well, you think? Sorry, I think I really.

[Jackie (Climbing Buddy)]

Yeah, I think because there are a lot of people in Squamish. Well, I wouldn't say a lot of people. There's like quite a. Like a decent amount of people who didn't like him. And some didn't like him very vehemently.

[Stephen Chua]

Just days before Jesse was murdered, someone left him a message on his truck. Eva took to Facebook. She wrote, whoever inscribed douche king on our vehicle forgot to add and queens anonymous. Coronation is a funny business. It certainly gave us a laugh. Climbing royalty already.

[Jackie (Climbing Buddy)]

I think that somebody who didn't like him, very likely a climber, took a gun out and shot him.

[Stephen Chua]

What's your name, sister? Zerelda Cobb. And your son?

[Actor/Voice Actor]

Jesse Woodson James.

[Stephen Chua]

Jesse James. In the final years of the original Jesse James life, he was backed into a corner after a life of robbing trains and moving from town to town. His gang had fallen apart and he was considering giving up crime for good. At least that's how the story goes. In the 1939 movie Jesse James, there were only two groups he trusted. His family and two friends, Charlie and Robert Ford. In fact, he asked the Ford brothers To move in with him and protect him as the law crept closer. And then one day, with his back turned, he was shot dead. A single shot. Robert Ford, betrayed him for the $10,000 reward. Jesse.

[Eva McLennan (Partner)]

Jessie.

[Stephen Chua]

After his death, Jesse James legend grew morphing through dime store novels, radio plays, and films. At times, he was portrayed as a villain. At others, an Old West Robin Hood. And then one day in the early 2000s, a guy with a newly found passion for rock climbing who was also running from something, picked up the name and put it on. Why he picked that name, we'll never know. Maybe he saw himself as an outlaw. But the RCMP didn't care about the name Jesse James. They were looking for the person behind it.

[Corporal Frank Jang]

This case truly is a mystery, and we're hoping that somebody out there has information now that.

[Stephen Chua]

This is Corporal Frank Jang from the Integrated Homicide Investigation Team speaking to reporters about their investigation. If at this point you're thinking this is a story about a rock climber who is murdered for his crypto fortune or because he rubbed the wrong climber the wrong way, well, you might be right, but you might also be totally wrong.

[Corporal Frank Jang]

The victim's real name was never known until recently.

[Stephen Chua]

It took three years to finally, finally get that answer.

[Corporal Frank Jang]

Now, the victim's actual name remained unknown until recently, when it was confirmed as Davis Wolfgang Hawk.

[Stephen Chua]

Davis Wolfgang Hawk.

[Corporal Frank Jang]

Mr. Hawk was 38 years old at the time of his death. We were able to confirm his identity through DNA. He was reported missing from his family by his family in the United States, and that's how we were able to confirm his identity.

[Stephen Chua]

But if the police had hopes that the case would bust open once they had a name, they couldn't have been farther from the truth.

[Corporal Frank Jang]

In this case, it's actually opened up more questions. We have a name. We have an age. We have a photograph. We've spoken with some people in the Squamish community that recognize him, that knew him especially as an avid climber. But aside from that, there's a lot of question marks on this case.

[Stephen Chua]

Because once investigators identified Hawk, they discovered that Jesse James wasn't the first first name he'd made up and put on. There was Commander Bo Decker, Walter Cross, Johnny Durango, Dave Bridger. He even made up the name Davis Wolfgang Hawk because he was actually born Andrew Britt Greenbaum. And behind each name, a different bizarre story. And behind those stories, there were lots of people who might very well have wanted him dead.

[Host/Interviewer]

And then the more that I dug, the more I realized a lot of people might want this person to be hurt.

[Stephen Chua]

The mere fact that he could get into Canada and spend years living there avoiding this multi million dollar lawsuit.

[Eva McLennan (Partner)]

It was sickening to learn of his past.

[Jackie (Climbing Buddy)]

People were sending messages, you know, saying, oh, you know, this guy was evil, this guy should be dead.

[Host/Interviewer]

Plagiaris Jesse James was murdered by Brazilian psychologists.

[Stephen Chua]

You haven't heard, you haven't heard this?

[Corporal Frank Jang]

Never heard the Brazilian thing?

[Stephen Chua]

No, never. Over the course of this series, I'm going to try to find out who was Jesse James. He would say things like, you know, I think the CIA is listening into our phone call. Or Davis, Wolfgang Hawk, there's a lot of gang activity in the Carolinas, in Georgia. Or Andrew Brit Greenbaum. For a while they were about talking, talking about him. You know, maybe he would become like a world famous chess champion. And I am hoping we will get closer to figuring out who killed him.

[Jackie (Climbing Buddy)]

You know, he was fundamentally a Nazi.

[Stephen Chua]

That's next time on Dirtbag Climber. Tune in next week for an all new episode of Dirtbag Climber. Or you can listen ahead to the full series now by subscribing to CBC True Crime Premium on Apple Podcasts or by subscribing to the CBC True crime channel on YouTube. Links in the description Dirtbag Climber is a production of Lark Productions and Kelly and Kelly for CBC Podcasts. The show is hosted by me, Stephen Chua. It's written and produced by Kathleen Goldar and Chris Kelly. The showrunner is Kathleen Goldhar. Producers are Karen Bracken and Tina Apostolopoulos. Moniz associate producer Hadil Abdel Nabi Sound design by Paul Tedeschini and Chris Kelly. Tamara Black is our coordinating producer. Original music by Chris Kelly. Our senior producer is Jeff Turner. Our digital producer is Roshni Nair. The series was developed by Ainslie Vogel, Gene Parsons and Kristin Boichuk. Additional reporting by Yvette Brand, Verkellian Kelly Executive producer Chris Kelly executive producer Pat Kelly business affairs producer Lauren Berkovich Verlark Productions Executive producer Aaron Haskett vp Business affairs Tex Antonucci for CBC Executive producers are Cecil Fernandez and Chris Oak. Tanya Springer is the senior manager and Arif Narani is the director of CBC Podcasts.

[Jackie (Climbing Buddy)]

For more CBC Podcasts go to CBC CA Podcasts.