S34 EP5: Jesse James | Dirtbag Climber

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Dirtbag Climber – S34 EP5: Jesse James | Dirtbag Climber

Date: October 6, 2025 | Host: Stephen Chua (CBC)

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Episode Overview

The finale of "Dirtbag Climber" confronts the enduring mystery of "Jesse James"—the last alias of Britt Greenbaum/Davis Wolfgang Hawk—a notorious spammer, chameleon-like con artist, and murdered Squamish, BC climber. Host Stephen Chua and contributing CBC reporters attempt to piece together the twisted strands of Hawk’s multiple identities and their possible connection to his unsolved homicide. The episode explores his personal motivations, the many theories about his violent death, and the impact he left on those around him.

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Key Discussion Points

The Many Lives of Jesse James/Britt Greenbaum/Davis Hawk

• Family Ties & Early Days

  • Emails between Davis and his parents give an intimate look at his formative and criminal years ([00:36]).
  • Known to his parents as Britt, to others as Davis—and later, countless aliases—he was open about his illicit activities and ambitions to them.

• Turning to Outlaw Identity

  • Jesse’s fascination with legendary outlaws (Billy the Kid, Jesse James) foreshadowed his later life on the run and use of the “Jesse James” persona ([02:00]):

    "It was all of that—the nomadic nature of being on the run, surviving and thriving on the edges of society." —Stephen Chua

• Arrival in Squamish

  • No record of his crossing into Canada, but a 2009 Squamish forum post marks his presence—"Skill level is novice, just got into the sport last month" ([05:57]).

Hiding in Plain Sight and the Allure of Squamish

• The Place as Refuge

  • Chua describes Squamish's appeal for misfits and seekers of reinvention ([03:00]):

    “There's room for all sorts of beautiful weirdness. This place makes you feel like you're on an adventure.”

• Double Life in the Community

  • Built a reputation as a strong climber and smart man, yet rumors about wealth clashed with his dirtbag lifestyle ([04:10]).
  • His "outsider" status created both fascination and hostility.

Money, Crypto, and Motive

• From Spam Millions to Crypto Fortunes

  • Early 2000s: cashed in on spam, investing in gold and then moving into cryptocurrency ([08:00]).
  • Receipts for $350,000 in precious metals; suspected larger sums transferred to bitcoin after 2009.

• Cryptocurrency as a Motive

  • Theoretically a simple answer: someone could have killed Jesse for his bitcoin ([08:45], [09:16]).

    “Could have been somebody who was after his bitcoin.” —Hyman Greenbaum ([09:16])

  • His criminal evolution traced through the dark web, fake identities, and shell companies.

  • Claims of Jesse running large-scale laundering operations; up to $2.5 billion in Bitcoin may have passed through wallets linked to him ([15:32]).

• Enemies Made

  • Example: a radio announcer in California accused Jesse of stealing 125 bitcoins (~millions today) ([10:54]).
  • Fearful of both Russians and local grudges.

Who Killed Jesse James? Theories and Investigations

• Investigation Status

  • RCMP and homicide squad remain tight-lipped, no suspects named ([16:22]).

    “There are no suspects today.” —Yvette Brand ([17:30])

• Potential Motives Explored

  • International/Cybercrime: Retaliation from angry crypto investors or criminal associates (including the Russian mob).
  • Neo Nazi & Past Hate: Could his far-right past have caught up with him? Chua and interviewees find this unlikely, given Jesse’s ability to remain undetected for years ([20:50]–[21:32]).
  • Drug Trade: Brief speculation; denied by local friends ([21:41]).
  • Spam & Trolls: Possible revenge from those he harassed online, but considered unlikely to turn violent ([22:17]).
  • Plagiarism/Absurd Theories: Jesse allegedly plagiarized a Brazilian psychologist’s book; theory involves contract killings and a cover-up by Jeff Bezos ([23:14]). Treated as satirical and outlandish by participants.
  • Simple Local Grudge: Most recurring belief is a local, possibly from the climbing community, acted on animosity ([23:48], [24:24]).

    “I think that somebody who didn't like him, very likely a climber, took a gun out and shot him.” —Jackie, climbing friend ([23:48])

• Forensic Details

  • Chua and others walk through the scene and timeline:
    • Jesse seen at usual spot with partner Eva near Brome Creek on June 13, 2017.
    • Burnt remains found in his truck on June 14 ([28:30]).
    • Truck found in an unusual location; details about the murder weapon (possibly a rifle) are speculative ([30:04]).

• Alternative Theories

  • Some propose Jesse faked his death; friends and family largely dismiss this ([32:51]).

    “I think that if it was faked, he wouldn't be able to resist coming back out after a few years and saying, fuck you, suckers.” —Jackie ([33:42])

  • Another theory: a random robbery, as Jesse was known to carry cash ([34:05]).

The Legacy of Exploitation

• A Pattern Set Early

  • Chua charts Jesse’s life-long appetite for power and manipulation:
    • From chess champion to white supremacist leader to spamming millionaire to dirtbag climber

    “He was an influencer before social media ever became a thing.” —Stephen Chua ([25:57]) “All we can say for sure is that it was because of his recurring pattern of hubris, influence and exploitation.” —Stephen Chua ([27:54])

• Self-Image and Narcissism

  • Jesse’s own words on ego:

    “I'm also a megalomaniac, okay? I'm an egomaniac and a megalomaniac. So it's hard for me to want to emulate anybody or want to be like anybody because I just, I think I'm like almost God.” ([27:54])

• Aftermath: Loss, Grief, and Moral Ambiguity

  • Family still awaits justice; father deeply grieves but is honest about his son's choices ([36:03]).
  • Friends and partner Eva grapple with the Jekyll-Hyde duality of Jesse/Davis/Britt ([36:20]).

    “He was certainly a positive influence in my life. He's with me for life.” —Eva ([38:12]) “I'm the other half of him that they didn't kill. And I will, he will be with me for life.” —Eva, via Yvette Brand ([37:53])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jesse’s Introspective Narcissism ([39:08])

  “All I care about is myself. I'm highly narcissistic. So that's the answer. The answer is I'm a positivist and I'm an extreme narcissist. I only care about things that impact me.” —Jesse James/Britt Greenbaum

• On His Changing Ideologies ([20:06]–[20:50])

  “Do you regret what you did? The answer to that is no. So those are your answers. Now you want me to elaborate? ... I now have philosophical objections to that viewpoint because I'm a positivist.”

• On Local Theory for the Murder ([30:34])

  “That just screams local. That's a totally different thing than somebody coming up to whack somebody.” —Yvette Brand

• On the Difficulty of Finding the Killer ([31:00])

  “If somebody hired a hitman to find him, you wouldn't think they'd use a rifle?” —Hyman Greenbaum

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Key Timestamps

• Early Family Correspondence: [00:36]–[02:00]
• Arrival in BC/Forum Post: [05:57]
• CBC Reporter Yvette Brand Investigation: [06:45]–[08:03]
• Crypto Motives and Transactions: [08:45]–[15:32]
• Police and Ongoing Investigation: [16:22]–[17:30]
• Theories Explored: [19:50]–[25:02]
• Personality and Psychological Analysis: [25:57]–[28:12]
• Layout of the Crime/Timeline: [28:30]–[29:44]
• Discussion of Gun/Weapon: [30:04]–[31:00]
• Faked Death Theories: [32:51]–[33:44]
• Aftermath for Family/Friends: [35:37]–[38:12]
• Jesse’s Final Reflection: [39:08]

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Conclusion

The episode closes without closure, but with clarity about the man at the story's center: Jesse James/Britt Greenbaum/Davis Hawk’s murder remains unsolved, clouded by his complex life, criminal activity, and alienation of so many. The strongest theory is a local killer driven by personal grudge rather than far-fetched international intrigue. Those closest to him—family, friends, partner—are left reckoning not just with his death, but with the enigma of who he truly was.

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For more information and related reporting, visit CBC Podcasts at cbc.ca/podcasts

Transcript

[Stephen Chua]

You're a guy who just wants to look nice. The kind of nice where you might get a nice compliment on the niceness of your nice new outfit. Good thing Men's Wearhouse has everything from polos to jeans and yes, suits. Plus a team to help you find the perfect fit to make sure you look nice nice. Love the way you look Men's Wearhouse this is a CBC podcast it's right before Christmas 2002. Davis Hawk's parents are still hearing from their 24 year old son on a regular basis, mostly through email.

[Jesse James / Britt Greenbaum (portrayed in interviews)]

Britt, your mother and I were wondering what you might like for Christmas besides a viper. Let us know if you have some ideas.

[Stephen Chua]

He might be known as Davis to his colleagues at Amazing Internet Products, where together they are becoming one of the most prolific spammers in America. But he's always going to be Brit to his parents, a big kid who still wants a Dodge Viper from Santa. Hi non Fiction books are always good. We've read hundreds of emails between Hawk and his parents. They are all part of evidence compiled by America Online and make up a portion of their multi million dollar civil lawsuit against him. The emails offer a little glimpse into Hawk's personal life. They talk about chess and tennis and he's open with his parents about the spamming business. Business is going slow this month. By design, I'm saving all my efforts for Labor Day weekend when I'm going to send almost 1 million emails. I expect a return of 50 to $75,000. In other correspondence, his parents complain about the calls they are still getting about him. Some callers ask to speak to Davis. Others are about his student loans. College was a ripoff, taught me zero practical knowledge and I am never paying those loans back. But it was the email about what books he wanted for Christmas that stopped us in our tracks. Here are the topics I like to read about and the titles I already have. The FBI, the CIA and the nsa Hawk tells his parents that he's into books about theoretical astrophysics and that he already has all the books by Stephen Hawking and Julian Barber, but they're on this list made almost a decade before he fled to Squamish BC in he tells his parents what he's been reading about lately. Billy the Kid, a dynasty of Western outlaws, and Jesse James, the 19th century cowboy outlaw and the last pseudonym Hawk ever takes on. When we started this podcast, we wondered what Hawk saw in Jesse James. Why use that name with all the connotations it comes with? What romantic notions did Hawke connect with the outlaw life, the nomadic nature of being on the run, surviving and thriving on the edges of society. After all we've learned, the answer to this question seems very clear now. It was all of that in January 2016, the year before his death. Jesse James wrote this on Facebook. The most remarkable feature of our world is that night follows day. From this certain fact, we know that there was a beginning. And from this certain fact we know likewise, there will be an end. The question is, what kind of end? Stephen I'm Steven Chua, and this is the finale of dirtbag climber from CBC's Uncovered, episode five, Jesse James. Can you tell me where we are, what we're looking at right now? Okay, so we're in Squamish, downtown. There's Mount Garibaldi right north, right in the distance over there. We were passing by a sprinter van. Very Squamish here. I'm sure that there are like at least two people living in it, as one does during the high season, which we are in. I still live in Squamish. I never knew Jesse or Davis Hawk or Britt Greenbaum, but I do understand the pull this place had on him. It's got me too. You could take a five minute drive from your doorstep and suddenly be in the middle of a forest staring up a giant granite monolith. Nice, dude. Rapid development is making it feel more suburban, but there are still times when it feels wild and full of possibilities. You could meet old climbers who go by names that sound like the stuff of 80s action movies like King Canal or Heavy Duty. That person who quit his job to live in a van, who insists that everyone calls him Matthew McClimerhey. Totally normal here. There's room for all sorts of beautiful weirdness. This place makes you feel like you're on an adventure. And it has a history of accepting strange, colorful characters. I can totally understand how someone could arrive in town with the idea of writing a new chapter to their life. When I wanted to restart my career in journalism, it's where I wrote mine. And it's where Jesse wrote his last. In the years that Jesse called Squamish home, he built a reputation as a strong climber, a seriously smart man who rubbed certain people the wrong way. And while many heard that he was rich, he chose to live in his truck. It was in that truck that his life ended on June 14, 2017, off the highway up a logging road and burned so badly that police needed to use DNA to identify him. But there are a lot of things we don't know about Jesse's time in Squamish. We don't even know for sure when he moved to Canada because no one named Davis Hawk or Brit Greenbaum is listed as crossing the border. But sometime between 2006 and 2009, Jesse James set up his life in BC because he pops up on a Squamish rock climbing forum in August 2009. I'm in Squamish until October 1st and looking for a climbing partner asap. My skill level is novice, and I just got into the sport last month.

[Yvette Brand]

How was a guy able to come up from the US and hide himself in plain sight in Squamish, which isn't that remote? You know, there is an RCMP detachment there and never be found out?

[Stephen Chua]

Yvette Brand might just be one of CBC's most dogged and determined reporters. And when she heard about Jesse James life and death, she instinctively knew that there could be a lot to sink her teeth into.

[Yvette Brand]

So I became very intrigued and started digging around. Who knew this person? What were they doing in Squamish? You know, who were they as part of the climbing community? Every time I turn another page, he's such a chameleon. He's this person, he's that person. It just became more and more interesting, like, how did this happen? How who would want this person to be hurt? And then the more that I dug, the more I realized a lot of people might want this person to be hurt.

[Stephen Chua]

And I mean, in your estimation, at least from your experience, are there theories that you are hearing that seem to be more likely than others?

[Yvette Brand]

You know, I think when I first started looking into this, it seemed to me like everybody that first hears about this guy, someone was after his money because, as any journalist knows, follow the money, right?

[Stephen Chua]

And in Squamish, when it came to Jesse and his money, it was all about cryptocurrency.

[Yvette Brand]

But it's unclear how much information he ever shared with anybody about his keys or his crypto or if anybody was ever part of what he did down in the US that could have come back up.

[Stephen Chua]

From court records dealing with the AOL case against Hawk. We know that in the early 2000s, he started to buy gold and platinum bars with the money he made spamming. We have receipts that he purchased $350,000 worth, but we know he had more than that. And at some point, it's believed Jesse took that gold and maybe some of the sacks of cash he had buried over the years and moved it into crypto. Probably around the time he moved to.

[Yvette Brand]

Squamish, because crypto was only just opening up at that time, right?

[Stephen Chua]

Crypto was just opening up. Then. The first bitcoin was released in 2009, and Vancouver, just down the road from Squamish, was a burgeoning hotbed for cryptocurrencies, later home to the world's first bitcoin atm. And while today digital currency is fairly mainstream, back then it was very much the wild West. Cryptocurrency is something that Jesse's dad, Hyman Greenbaum, thinks a lot about, too.

[Hyman Greenbaum]

Could have been somebody who was after his bitcoin.

[Stephen Chua]

Hyman believes that when his son ran to Canada, he took his gold with him.

[Hyman Greenbaum]

I'm pretty sure he, at some point within a year or two after that, bought quite a bit of bitcoin, probably using money he got from the gold.

[Stephen Chua]

It's not a stretch to imagine that someone like Jesse, who is both comfortable on the darker side of the Internet and a scammer at heart, would dive headfirst into the world of bitcoin. We've talked to people who have looked into Jesse's crypto activity. We discovered that he was using all the same moves that he learned while spamming, who would take on different aliases, create shell companies, and lie to get people's money.

[Jesse James / Britt Greenbaum (portrayed in interviews)]

You know, I was one of the few friends that maybe wasn't out for something from him.

[Stephen Chua]

One of the ways we know that Jesse had crypto is because he used it to buy something from this guy, Ward Jensen.

[Jesse James / Britt Greenbaum (portrayed in interviews)]

I had a rock drill, you know, for drilling holes in rocks, and, you know, we used them for building routes. I had one, and he was after one, so I sold it to him. At the time, you know, it was for. Oh, I think it was one bitcoin is what it was. Well, at that time, it was $800.

[Stephen Chua]

Unfortunately, Ward told us he doesn't have that bitcoin anymore, that he got scammed out of it a long time ago. Digital currency still has deep and dodgy ties to the dark web, to criminality, all things that Jesse was very used to dealing with.

[Jesse James / Britt Greenbaum (portrayed in interviews)]

I think he probably screwed the wrong people.

[Stephen Chua]

Hyman told us about one such person.

[Hyman Greenbaum]

There was a guy in California who was a radio announcer. I think my son was using the username of Michael Moriarty. After the Sherlock Holmes fell in, there was some guy who claimed that my son stole, like, I think it was 125 bitcoins or something like that from him. So, I mean, there was some pretty nasty tweets. It was on one of these Websites, bitcoin forum or something like that. But I would like to have seen that investigate a little more than it was.

[Stephen Chua]

Today. 125 Bitcoin is worth millions and millions of dollars. And this is just one instance in a crypto career that spanned almost a decade. So it's not a long shot to imagine someone who got screwed investing in one of Jesse's schemes. Someone who lost enough money that it led them to want to kill him.

[Hyman Greenbaum]

I found out after I learned of his death that he had been running some bitcoin websites. I mean, whether they were legitimate sites or not is questionable. Probably some of them were scams, I'm guessing.

[Jesse James / Britt Greenbaum (portrayed in interviews)]

He was clearly afraid of somebody, somebody coming for him. I asked him, you know, who he's afraid of, and it kind of came out to the effect that, you know, he's doing some transactions with these Russians.

[Hyman Greenbaum]

Yeah, I mean, my son had mentioned that he was fearful of the Russian mob.

[Stephen Chua]

The Russian mob might seem far fetched, but then again, so has so much of the story. As we've established throughout this series, Jesse acted like an asshole and that made him enemies in the real world. But if you are an asshole on the dark web, well, you can run into people who will push back really hard. A lot of people who get into doing crypto crimes, actually original started out doing the type of crimes that you've.

[Jesse James / Britt Greenbaum (portrayed in interviews)]

Already talked about, just other types of Internet fraud that can very easily lead.

[Stephen Chua]

You and down the path of doing more crypto crimes because they tend to give you a higher payout. This is Jameson Lopp, he works in digital security. But the one thing that I've learned from seeing a lot of stories of people who have been in that space is that it's dangerous. Especially if you become well known in.

[Jesse James / Britt Greenbaum (portrayed in interviews)]

The sort of criminal underworld and if you have, for example, some really big.

[Stephen Chua]

Scores, you, you may become known in.

[Jesse James / Britt Greenbaum (portrayed in interviews)]

Certain circles as an incredibly wealthy cyber criminal.

[Stephen Chua]

And then there's other types of people who roam in that criminal underworld, who.

[Jesse James / Britt Greenbaum (portrayed in interviews)]

Their preferred means of income is to.

[Stephen Chua]

Actually go and physically attack the, the criminals who have done very well because they know that those people are probably not going to go to law enforcement if you attack them. So it's just, it's a dangerous world to be in. So would being able to track Jesse's crypto activity be the key to figuring out who killed him? His dad, Hyman thinks it might just be.

[Hyman Greenbaum]

And what I really want is for somebody who has software to read the bitcoin blockchain to go through, make I Can give you a 10 hour window of when this death was likely occurred. I'd like a list of all the bitcoin transactions in that 10 hour window ordered by the magnitude of bitcoins that were transferred. And I'd like to know, were any of those accounts, any of those bitcoin wallets emptied at that time and have any of those been accessed or not accessed since that time?

[Stephen Chua]

A version of this kind of investigation is possible, but it's costly and very complicated because of the anonymous nature of bitcoin. In fact, Jesse may have also run a website that helped launder crypto, making the search even harder.

[Hyman Greenbaum]

Let's see. I think one of them was called Bitlonder.

[Stephen Chua]

We spoke to someone who has been working on tracking Jesse's online aliases and scams. They believe with a high degree of confidence, that throughout the course of his crypto career, $2.5 billion in Bitcoin was processed through wallets associated with businesses and aliases they think were Jesse James's, Although the true scale of his business operations is likely much higher. We tried to ask the RCMP about any possible links between his crypto business and his death.

[Yvette Brand]

It was clear that this person lived a deliberately private life, like living off the grid, so to speak. So the investigative theories were wide open.

[Stephen Chua]

Sergeant Frida Fong, media relations for the Integrated Homicide Investigation Team in Vancouver, unsurprisingly, didn't tell us much.

[Yvette Brand]

And so part of that, well, firstly we had to verify the person's identity and then follow up on any motivation behind the individual's past because the investigation is ongoing. I can't really speak to what those theories were, but it was wide open.

[Stephen Chua]

Sergeant Fong told us that despite all these years of investigation, there are still no suspects. Jesse's dad isn't just disappointed that there are no suspects today, he's disappointed with the way the whole case is being handled.

[Hyman Greenbaum]

I mean, I've given the IHIT team quite a few tips. There was a tweet on Twitter that we found that was awfully suspicious, but they don't seem to follow through on investigating them.

[Yvette Brand]

There are no suspects today.

[Stephen Chua]

It's third down. Did you see the game last night? Of course you did, because you used Instacart to do your grocery restock. Plus you got snacks for the game, all without missing a single play. And that's on multitasking. So we're not saying that Instacart is a hack for game day, but it might be the ultimate play this football season. Enjoy. $0 delivery fees on your first three orders. Service fees apply for three orders in 14 days. Excludes restaurants. Instacart. We're here. All right. It is October. It is officially spooky season, which is great timing because there's a new Canadian thriller series out. It's called Wayward, and I think we should be talking about it. My name is Alameen Abdul Mahmoud, and I love pop culture. And this week on my podcast promotion, I called up some of my favorite critics to get into the show about a school for troubled teens. And then things start to go wrong. It's just wonderful, and it's bringing something new and interesting to the thriller genre. For that episode and a whole lot more, you can find and follow Commotion with El Amin Abdul Mahmoud on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. Throughout this series, we've painted a portrait of the many lives of Jesse James. And as we've shown, he was always ahead of the curve. Long before most of us even understood what the Internet was. Jesse was making a fortune off spam. Years before cryptocurrency became popular, he'd allegedly already stacked a bitcoin fortune. And before the far right found its way back into the mainstream, Jesse had figured out how to weaponize hate and how to profit from it. Each new identity put him a step ahead and created a new reason for someone to paint a target on his back. So if you're looking for a motive, there's no shortage of options. The question is, which, if any, of Jesse's past lives caught up to him? Let's start with the most dangerous chapter of all.

[Hyman Greenbaum]

Do you still hold the same views now that you did when you were.

[Stephen Chua]

You know, at Wofford College? By far, his most incendiary chapter was his time as a neo Nazi, one that he told journalist Brian McWilliams that he had let go.

[Jesse James / Britt Greenbaum (portrayed in interviews)]

The answer to that is no. No. Do I find those views? Why don't you ask another question? Okay, that question is no. Now you ask. Do you find those views reprehensible? The answer to that is no. Do you regret what you did? The answer to that is no. So those are your answers. Now you want me to elaborate? Yeah. I feel that my philosophy has matured. See, back then, I believed what I said, which was, the white race is superior and blah, blah, blah, and you should get rid of all the other races. But, see, I now have philosophical, serious, philosophical objections to that viewpoint because I'm a positivist.

[Stephen Chua]

Whether he believed his racist rhetoric or not, the question now is, did it lead to his murder? Did someone put two and two together and decide the world was better with one less Nazi in it? Or did a disgruntled neo Nazi, still angry about discovering that Davis Hawk was once Brit Greenbaum, find him on Facebook 18 years later and make the trip to Squamish? It took police three years to connect Jesse to Davis Wolfgang Hawk, and even we've had trouble finding photos of him online. So it seems pretty unlikely that after all these years, someone from that chapter would hunt him down. But what if Hawk was into something else?

[Jesse James / Britt Greenbaum (portrayed in interviews)]

She almost called him one time on a drop. I'm pretty sure he was getting money through the cocaine, powdered cocaine trade. I almost got him once.

[Stephen Chua]

Richard Banks, the cop from South Carolina, told us that he suspected that Jesse was dealing drugs. And Squamish and the neighboring ski town of Whistler have a very active drug scene. But, like, I've never seen him do drugs. This is Jackie, a friend of Jesse's. Like, I never even see him smoke marijuana, which is unusual, you know, in a climate community. In Squamish, Jesse was all about supplements, eating healthy, and living forever. And we've not been able to find anyone but Detective Banks who connected Hawk to the drug trade. So maybe it was a spammer that killed him.

[Hyman Greenbaum]

I mean, I know he pissed some.

[Stephen Chua]

People off, but under the alias Dave Bridger, Jesse would rip off people's website copy and steal email addresses. If he didn't like someone, he would redirect an avalanche of spam to their inbox. But I don't think it would ever.

[Hyman Greenbaum]

Rise to the level of anything that would, you know, require, you know, putting a gun to his head kind of thing.

[Stephen Chua]

No way. Then there is the theory that has to do with his book on picking up women, Psychology of Seduction, that was brought up to us by AOL lawyer Jennifer Archie. Plagiarist. Jesse James was murdered by Brazilian psychologists. You haven't heard.

[Yvette Brand]

You haven't heard this?

[Stephen Chua]

Never heard that.

[Jesse James / Britt Greenbaum (portrayed in interviews)]

The Brazilian thing?

[Stephen Chua]

No, I've never heard that. Oh, yeah, He.

[Yvette Brand]

He published this book, the Psychology of Seduction.

[Jesse James / Britt Greenbaum (portrayed in interviews)]

Master.

[Stephen Chua]

Yeah, right.

[Jesse James / Britt Greenbaum (portrayed in interviews)]

Okay.

[Yvette Brand]

Yeah, this relates to a copyright. He stole all of that, like, on the.

[Stephen Chua]

On the Internet. It's a long, complicated and truthfully absurd theory, but the story goes that allegedly Jesse plagiarized the book from a Brazilian psychologist that made them so mad that they put out a hit on Jesse. The theory also involves a fake literary award, an individual named Professor X, and according to this unbelievable account, Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos covered the whole thing up with a life like Jesse's it's easy to dream up a multiverse of theories as to who might have killed him. But what if the answer is a lot less sexy and a lot closer to home? I think that somebody who didn't like him, very likely a climber, took a gun out and shot him. This again is Jesse's climbing friend, Jackie. He's the one that told me about the online pushback against Jesse's trolling, a behavior that Jesse indulged his whole life. They got angry at him and there are some people who were very angry at him even before all this stuff came out and they shot him. That's my theory. And I think it was. I think it was a climber, right? Or somebody not a professional climber, somebody who climbs and knew him in the climbing community at that time. We heard this simple theory time and time again from his high school classmate, Michael DeLuca. No, it absolutely doesn't surprise me that he provoked someone to murder. I bet he provoked lots of people. And whoever killed him was, you know, first in line to anti racism journalist Mark Potok.

[Jesse James / Britt Greenbaum (portrayed in interviews)]

You know, very often people like that do wind up dead.

[Stephen Chua]

Throughout this series, we've cataloged the many ways Jesse James was a self centered asshole. From big things like propagating racist ideas to smaller things like harassing a teacher with robocalls. And when you add it all up, we think it points to what happened on the night of June 14, 2017.

[Jesse James / Britt Greenbaum (portrayed in interviews)]

You know, the thing is, I don't believe that strong characters can be heavily influenced. A lot of people tried to influence me when I was a kid. Obviously you want parents, you know, try to influence you, correct? Mm. The police, government tries to influence you. Media tries to influence you. I'm pretty resistant to it and always have been. You asked me if I had a role model or somebody that, you know, shaped me into what I am, and the answer is no. I shaped myself.

[Stephen Chua]

Probably sometime around high school, Andrew Britt Greenbaum started cultivating a skill that would serve him well throughout the rest of his life, but it would also be his eventual downfall. He would find ways to influence people and exploit their vulnerabilities for his personal gain. He was an influencer before social media ever became a thing. First, as Britt Greenbaum, he became the top dog at the chess club. He relished his ability to dominate people with his intellect. I played for fun and he played for something else. As Davis Hawk, he made himself something of a leader among a fringe group of white supremacists. And he used his position to suck money out of their pockets. I can practically hear him laughing at his way to the bank. Then as Dave Bridger, thanks to the dawn of spam email, he made millions exploiting the insecurities of men. But no one was exempt from this. He scammed everyone.

[Hyman Greenbaum]

So who tried to sue you?

[Jesse James / Britt Greenbaum (portrayed in interviews)]

Oh, I don't know. I've been served so many lawsuits over my career it's hard to count.

[Stephen Chua]

Finally, as Jesse James, he tried to fashion himself as a dirtbag climber, philosopher, king. At this point, he could have lived a happy, quiet life as a climbing bum, but his need to be the top dog always got the better of him. He was a gigantic Internet troll who rubbed people the wrong way with his shitposting, getting some people very mad when people questioned his claims of wealth. He threw wads of cash around.

[Jesse James / Britt Greenbaum (portrayed in interviews)]

The next day he came in with hundred dollar bills.

[Stephen Chua]

That may have attracted a lot of attention from, from the wrong kind of people. So yes, someone certainly did kill Jesse James. But what made it possible? All we can say for sure is that it was because of his recurring pattern of hubris, influence and exploitation.

[Jesse James / Britt Greenbaum (portrayed in interviews)]

I'm also a megalomaniac, okay? I'm an egomaniac and a megalomaniac. So it's hard for me to want to emulate anybody or want to be like anybody because I just, I think I'm like almost God. So it's hard for someone to have any influence over me because I don't want to be like anybody else.

[Stephen Chua]

The South Carolina cop Richard Banks, who'd investigated a lot of stuff over his career, knew that this kind of behavior has an expiration date.

[Jesse James / Britt Greenbaum (portrayed in interviews)]

Well, I'm surprised it took that long.

[Stephen Chua]

All right, well, this is the Brome Creek. And yeah, this is the, this is where the vehicle was parked. The police have been tight lipped about their investigation, but here's what we do know. We know that Jesse's death is classified as a homicide. We know that days earlier, Jesse's truck had been inscribed with the words douche king on it. That on the evening of June 13, 2017, Jesse and his partner Eva saw each other at their usual spot at Brome Creek near Cat Lake campground in Squamish. And then went their separate ways, as they always did. And at some point later that night, or maybe in the early morning hours, Jesse was shot and killed. His badly burned remains were found early on the morning of the the 14th inside his destroyed truck. I think he might have been shot.

[Jesse James / Britt Greenbaum (portrayed in interviews)]

Down there and they drove the vehicle.

[Stephen Chua]

Up here and torched it. We also know that the truck was found not near Brome Creek where he usually camped, but in another location. He wasn't camped here?

[Jesse James / Britt Greenbaum (portrayed in interviews)]

No, he never camped here.

[Stephen Chua]

He was always camped there, but that's about all we know. We don't know if where he was found was where he was killed. We don't know what else was found in the truck or if anything was missing. We don't even know if his body was in the front or back seat. We don't know what kind of gun he was killed with.

[Hyman Greenbaum]

I don't know if you've heard this, and I probably shouldn't spread it around, but I heard that they. I mean, they have. They did do some ballistics. He was shot with a rifle.

[Stephen Chua]

This information from Hyman is new to us and we can't confirm it. The police have never been forthcoming about these sorts of details. We can only treat this information as Hyman's speculation. But when we mentioned a rifle to CBC's Yvette brand, she found it insightful.

[Yvette Brand]

That just screams local. That's a totally different thing than somebody coming up to whack somebody.

[Stephen Chua]

A dumb question, but, like, is there. Is there a reason for that? Is. Are there?

[Yvette Brand]

That's just my theory. I mean, that would be something people would have in Squamish really easily. And why, if you were some kind of professional hit person, would you like. It's just so messy and noisy and big and heavy to carry.

[Stephen Chua]

I don't know.

[Yvette Brand]

I'm not a cop, but it wouldn't be how I do hits.

[Stephen Chua]

Hyman has the same theory.

[Hyman Greenbaum]

If somebody hired a hitman to find him, you wouldn't think they'd use a rifle?

[Jesse James / Britt Greenbaum (portrayed in interviews)]

No.

[Hyman Greenbaum]

So it could have been somebody with a grudge against him. As I mentioned, I think some of these websites he was running may have been scams and he may have scammed people.

[Stephen Chua]

Does this help us get any closer to figuring out who or why someone might have killed Jesse? Was the killer not some international hitman, but a local who Jesse had scammed or pissed off? Maybe it was an open secret in the climbing community that Jesse slept alone in a remote spot. In the end, whoever killed him proved they could shoot him and get away with it. Like Yvette, I'm not a cop, but from what we've heard, there appears to be a strong possibility the killer was someone from Squamish, or at least someone with local knowledge. It's an unsettling thought. Squamish is growing, but it's still a small community. You can run into the Mayor at the grocery store. You can take a walk anywhere and there's a good chance you'll bump into someone you know. It's disturbing to think the person you pass by on the sidewalk might be the one who did it. But there is one more thread I need to tug on. I mean, there's also another crazy theory where people actually think he faked his own death. No, that's one, too. Like some people thought he faked his own death. Friends and colleagues of Jesse's from his spamming days have talked about this idea since his death was first reported. They've said he spoke about disappearing, about running to a faraway place where he could really hide.

[Hyman Greenbaum]

You know, he said he was going to disappear. He left a book here, I think, called Hide youe Assets and Disappear.

[Stephen Chua]

A place like Vanuatu, A string of white sand archipelagos in the southwestern Pacific Ocean. Vanuatu is remote, mountainous, and it came up a few times in our reporting. It's perfect for climbing, covered with tropical rainforests, and is a hub for money laundering. Not everyone believes this, obviously. His dad told us that Jesse hated the heat and that the climate in Squamish was more his speed. And his old climbing friend Jackie totally dismisses the idea. No, not after, like, you know, it's. It's. I think that if it was faked, he wouldn't be able to resist coming back out after a few years and saying, fuck you, suckers.

[Jesse James / Britt Greenbaum (portrayed in interviews)]

That's.

[Stephen Chua]

That's the character. That's the character. Right? And then he'd have a big laugh. There's another, less exotic but plausible explanation for Jesse's murder, and it doesn't involve the Internet. It just comes down to cold hard cash.

[Hyman Greenbaum]

Could have been a random robbery type of event. Eva said that, you know, he might have kept a couple of thousand or so in the GMC Yukon that he was living out of. So it could have been just some sort of random robbery attempt.

[Stephen Chua]

We have at least two sources who describe Jesse flaunting cash in public. What if someone knew about that cash and knew where Jesse parked, knew that he was alone? And the cars running by the highway would muffle the sound of a gun going off. However it ended, and whoever ended it, Jesse's life, and of course his death has left its mark. Those like me, who only knew him by reputation, we're left with mostly questions. Not just about who ultimately killed him, but also, who was he? A man who shapeshifted so often it's easy to get caught up in the chase. But for those who were close to him, Those who loved him, they are left with just a hole. His parents, who knew very well that their son lived a shady life, loved him and waited for years to hear from him again.

[Jesse James / Britt Greenbaum (portrayed in interviews)]

We haven't seen Britt in months, so I'm answering the phone now in hopes that it's Britt.

[Stephen Chua]

Even Jesse was aware that he'd made life hard on them.

[Jesse James / Britt Greenbaum (portrayed in interviews)]

I think they'd prefer if I was a doctor or a lawyer, but I think they're happy I made a little bit of fucking scratch. I'm sure they think it's a hell of a lot better than what I was doing before today.

[Stephen Chua]

His father still waits for justice. What did you think when you heard about how he had, how his life ended?

[Hyman Greenbaum]

Well, I mean, I wanted to know how and who. I mean, I still want to know who.

[Stephen Chua]

His climbing friends who never knew Davis Hock, the far right neo Nazi who spewed hate. They're left to wonder if they can truly mourn a man like that. Can they miss Jesse James while at the same time turn their backs on Davis Hawke and his partner Eva McLennan? Yvette Brand is one of the few reporters to get Eva to talk about Jesse on the record. This is from one of her reports for CBC News. Well, he had a lot of secrets and I was evidently shielded from a lot. But I can't say what drives somebody to murder. During their time together, Jesse only showed Eva certain parts of his past. She didn't know that he was a neo Nazi. She didn't know he was a world class spammer. All she knew was that he made a lot of money in the crypto world and that together they lived to climb and that she loved him. It was sickening to learn of his past as a hate monger, but overall.

[Yvette Brand]

A blessing to connect with his father.

[Stephen Chua]

And with some of his old time friends.

[Yvette Brand]

So I'm glad for the truth to come out.

[Stephen Chua]

In the interview with Yvette, Eva is wearing a raccoon hat like the one Davy Crockett wore.

[Yvette Brand]

And I said, did he leave you? You know, you say he has millions. Did he leave you any money? Did he take care of you? And she laughed and she touched her raccoon hat and she said, he left me this hat. She kept saying over and over to me, I'm the other half of him that they didn't kill. And I will, he will be with me for life.

[Stephen Chua]

He was certainly a positive influence in my life. He's with me for life.

[Jesse James / Britt Greenbaum (portrayed in interviews)]

Yeah.

[Stephen Chua]

A year and a half before his death, Jesse James wrote this on Facebook. I've been a very lucky, lucky boy in all areas of my life. Hope I haven't used up all my luck because I'm going to need a lot more of it to make these big dreams happen. So the question we're all left with is, did Jesse's luck run out or was it ever about luck at all? Because as Jesse or Britt or Davis, he had a choice about the way he walked through the world and how he treated people and the choices he made or the choices he lived with and most likely caused his death.

[Jesse James / Britt Greenbaum (portrayed in interviews)]

All I care about is myself. I'm highly narcissistic. So that's the answer. The answer is I'm a positivist and I'm an extreme narcissist. I only care about things that impact me.

[Stephen Chua]

Dirtbag Climber is a production of Lark Productions and Kelly and Kelly for CBC Podcasts. The show is hosted by me, Stephen Chua. It's written and produced by Kathleen Goldhar and Chris Kelly, with additional writing from me, Steven Chua. The showrunner is Kathleen Goldhar. Producers are Karen Bracken and Tina Apostolopoulos Moniz associate producer Hadil Abdel Nabi Sound design by Paul Tedeschini and Chris Kelly. Tamara Black is our coordinating producer. Original music by Chris Kelly. Our senior producer is Jeff Turner. Our digital producer is Roshni Nair. The series was developed by Ainslie Vogel, Gene Parsons and Kristin Boychuk. Additional reporting by Yvette Brand. Our podcast art was designed by Good Tape Studio. Our cross promo producer is Amanda Cox. Our video producers are Evan Agard, Tamina Aziz and John Lee. Production support from Dave Shumka Research by Sally Webster and Olivia Fellowes Fact checking by Alexis Green and Nicki Manfredi. Additional voices by David Patrick Fleming, Pippa Johnstone, Nathan Howe, Ryan Beal, Mark Chavez, Chris Kelly, Kathleen Goldhar for Kelly and Kelly Executive Producer Chris Kelly executive producer Pat Kelly Business affairs producer Lauren Berkovich for Lark Productions Executive producer Aaron Haskett vp Business Affairs Tex Antonucci for cbc. Executive producers are Cecil Fernandez and Chris Oak. Tanya Springer is the Senior manager and Arif Narrani is the director and Leslie Merklinger is the Executive Director of CBC Podcasts. For more CBC Podcasts go to CBC CA Podcasts.