Alison Mack (2:41)

Tina was on one side, my mom was on the other. And my attorneys were in front of us. And my friend Tina was singing a song to me like a hymn.

Narrator/Producer (2:48)

Tina Is singing a nice choral song in her ear, trying to calm her down. This is something Alison's friends have been doing to ground her for this day.

Alison Mack (2:58)

My friend Becca had sung me a song the day before they put her hand on my heart. And it was a song that was talking about how God is in the waiting. God is in the moments when you are just waiting, you know.

Narrator/Producer (3:12)

But the songs are no use. As soon as Allison gets out of the car onto the sidewalk, she's like a magnet. And the photographers are metal.

Alison Mack (3:21)

And then the paparazzi just like, you know, who came around and we couldn't move.

Narrator/Producer (3:27)

They stick to her, bearing down, moving as she moves, pushing towards the courthouse as one big mass. Allison gets jostled. Her hair swings forward.

Alison Mack (3:37)

I just put my head down and was like trying to listen to Tina, you know, and like, feel my mom. And like, my attorneys were like, you guys have to let us move.

Narrator/Producer (3:45)

Eventually, they push through. Alison enters the courtroom with her mom and older brother. Inside, the judge sits behind a tall wooden bench. He's got white hair and wears round rimless glasses that mirror the roundness of his face. He's here to sentence Allison for her crimes.

Alison Mack (4:04)

I had like 15 people sitting behind me in my sentencing hearing to support me. You know, I have 14 letters of recommendation from different people. Professors from my college, my pastor, the church I was going to.

Narrator/Producer (4:17)

Alison herself had written two letters to the judge explaining her actions.

Alison Mack (4:21)

There was this rallying sense of, like, where can I be able to convince the judge that she's not worthy of incarceration? I mean, my therapist, I think, wrote a letter that said that she hopes.

Narrator/Producer (4:33)

That she will receive no time. She's cooperated with prosecutors and other defendants in the case have received probation. But Allison's aren't the only letters. Before the judge sentences her, he must also hear victim impact statements, letters from people Allison has heard.

Natalie Robomed (4:52)

I was physically injured and it's a.

Alison Mack (4:54)

Scar that is very difficult. Alison criticized everything about cruelty of that.

Natalie Robomed (4:58)

Abuse of power and trust. Will be with you.

Alison Mack (5:01)

I have never felt so vulnerable and exposed.

Narrator/Producer (5:07)

One victim is here to read her statement in person. She gets up, she's pretty with long brown hair and almond brown eyes. She starts reading her letter directly to Allison.

Alison Mack (5:20)

She's like, I hope you rot in a cell for a long time. And while you're sitting at home in your comfortable house putting on lipstick, you have to know that you destroyed lives and you're a monster and very like, very angry, you know.

Natalie Robomed (5:36)

Alison sits stone faced in the courtroom.

Alison Mack (5:38)

Holding back tears I think that I was thinking, and I still was thinking about, like, oh, my God, my poor brother, you know, behind me, like, having.

Kristen Krug (5:47)

To hear this about his sister, you know, like, my poor mom. Like, I'm so sorry, you guys, you know, just like, it was more like, I can take it, like, you know, but like, fuck you guys. Like, I'm so sorry, you know, So I think that was hard. Like, just. I don't see myself as innocent, you know, and they were.

Natalie Robomed (6:16)

Alison tries to keep it together. She stands stock still, taking it in. And after the victim statements, the Judge reads his 10 page decision.

Alison Mack (6:26)

He pointed to the fact that I seemed callous and laughed at people's pain and led people in negative directions and that that was not acceptable.

Natalie Robomed (6:35)

He said you capitalized on your celebrity.

Alison Mack (6:38)

Yeah.

Natalie Robomed (6:39)

Do you think that's fair?

Alison Mack (6:41)

I think that I capitalized on the things I had and so the success I had as an actor, I think I did capitalize on that.

Narrator/Producer (6:48)

Yeah.

Alison Mack (6:49)

And it was a power tool that I had to get people to do what I wanted.

Natalie Robomed (6:53)

He says you were an essential accomplice. Do you think that's fair?

Alison Mack (6:58)

I think that I was very effective in moving Keith's vision forward.

Natalie Robomed (7:03)

And because of that effectiveness, the judge says Allison must serve three years in federal prison.

Narrator/Producer (7:10)

The former Smallville actress pleaded guilty to racketeering and racketeering conspiracy charges, acknowledging she manipulated women into becoming sex slaves for Keith Ranieri, NXIVM's leader.

Natalie Robomed (7:21)

Alison led women to be branded with Keith Ranieri's initials on the flesh of their body bodies. She was a, quote, master overseeing women who were her slaves. She had sex with Keith daily. She had threesomes with another member who was also having sex with him. She told women inside the cult that they would reach enlightenment if they did.

Narrator/Producer (7:43)

As she did and developed a relationship with Keith.

Natalie Robomed (7:48)

For this, she has been portrayed as.

Narrator/Producer (7:50)

A villain, as the person who acted as a pimp for. For Keith, to some, she appeared to have been a top lieutenant.

Natalie Robomed (7:59)

But who is Alison Mack really?

Narrator/Producer (8:02)

Is she a victim or someone who victimized others?

Natalie Robomed (8:13)

From Campside Media and CBC, this is Alison after Nexivm from CBC's Uncover. I'm Natalie Robomed.

Narrator/Producer (8:21)

This is episode one.

Natalie Robomed (8:23)

It started in Vancouver. I'm driving down the freeway from my house in LA to the satellite city of Long Beach, California. It's the day after Christmas in Southern California, which means it's light jacket weather. Where I grew up, back in Dubai with my British mom, I'd be lolling on the couch making leftover turkey Sandwiches. But not on this day because I'm on my way to interview Alison Mack. I'm feeling nervous. I've met Alison a few times, but this is our first full interview and I'm worried. I still don't know whether I can fully trust her.

Narrator/Producer (9:06)

The highway gives way to views of.

Natalie Robomed (9:08)

The sea, where oil rigs dot the horizon. Alison lives here, down by the shore of the Pacific Ocean. I park and walk into the hotel where I've arranged to meet my producing partner on this project, Vanessa Gregoriadis. Hello.

Alison Mack (9:23)

Good morning.

Narrator/Producer (9:26)

Here we are at this grand hotel lobby.

Natalie Robomed (9:29)

Vanessa has covered NXIVM for just under a decade. We work together a lot, but we live on opposite coasts, so it's always nice to see each other in person.

Alison Mack (9:37)

I love that room. Oh, thank you.

Natalie Robomed (9:40)

We're both kind of anxious, chattering to fill the time, we've been turned on to this story by Stephen Belber, a playwright, director and screenwriter. Steven has done a lot of projects about convicts and he thinks Allison has a story to tell, so he brought us on board. Vanessa also has some experience with Allison Mack. She actually wrote a story about nxivm Back in 2018, a story in which Allison lied to her. More on that later. We don't know which Alison we're going to get today. Will she tell the truth? We don't have much time to wander because right on the. At 9am, Alison arrives. Hi, how are you?

Kristen Krug (10:21)

Hello.

Alison Mack (10:22)

This is good to see you.

Narrator/Producer (10:23)

Alison has not spoken publicly since her incarceration. She's never told her story in a magazine or a book or a documentary. She's had lots of offers, but always said no until now. She wants to tell her story in podcast form because she loves podcasts and because she's no longer comfortable in front of cameras like she used to be.

Alison Mack (10:45)

How are you guys?

Natalie Robomed (10:46)

Holidays?

Alison Mack (10:47)

They were good. I mean, I have kids with. You are wearing today.

Natalie Robomed (10:51)

She's wearing a puffer vest, blue plaid shirt, black leopard print leggings, Doc Marten.

Narrator/Producer (10:56)

Boots and thick socks.

Natalie Robomed (10:57)

Her hair is in a messy ponytail with one of those curly hair ties that don't tangle your hair at night. She's smiling, her face beaming as she greets us. She's confident, she's turning it on. And we're being maybe overly friendly too. Everyone seems nervous. She talks about her dogs.

Alison Mack (11:18)

I'm so sorry. I really wanted this to be focused and serious and not be proud of dogs.

Narrator/Producer (11:24)

I have to say she appears younger than her 43 years. Looking at her, you would never guess that she was fresh off years in prison and three and a half years on house arrest. But that's how most scars are. You can't see them fully clothed. I have so many questions I want to ask. But as we settle in a hotel room, sitting opposite each other, the quiet thrum of the street below, I decide to start at the beginning, the beginning of her life.

Alison Mack (11:55)

So I was born in Europe, in Northern Germany. My dad was an opera singer. He's retired now, but he was singing in the opera houses over there. And then we moved to Southern California. My mom was from Southern California and I think was just, like, homesick for her parents, for sunshine and beach. Northern Germany doesn't really have a lot of that.

Natalie Robomed (12:18)

Alison moved back to Long beach at 2 years old and was raised in an artistic household just a few miles from where we are now with her musician dad and Montessori school mom teacher. She had one older brother and later on, a much younger sister.

Alison Mack (12:33)

My brother is 16 months older than I am, but my brother is very shy and introverted. When I was born, my brother would, like, push me in front of him to talk, like, on our behalf, you know, like, I was very willing to be center of attention, and he was very willing to let me be the center of attention.

Natalie Robomed (12:52)

For a young girl who was willing to be the center of attention, there were a lot of opportunities in Hollywood. Just an hour or so away. Alison got into acting.

Alison Mack (13:02)

The first commercial I did was a German chocolate commercial, and they wouldn't let me eat the chocolate. I had to spit the chocolate out after every take because they didn't want me to get sick. And I remember being like, that's bunk, because I had to, you know, do multiple takes from multiple angles and things like that.

Natalie Robomed (13:17)

Yeah, I can just picture Alison, 4 years old, putting the chocolate in her mouth, chewing, wanting so badly to eat this delicious treat that every kid loves, and then having someone yell cut. And having to use all her willpower to spit it out over and over and over again. But she did it, and she was good at it.

Alison Mack (13:39)

I started going to acting class when I was 5, and I didn't know how to read yet, so a lot of my memorization was, like, auditory. My mom would read it to me and I would repeat it back.

Natalie Robomed (13:49)

Alison liked performing, but it was more than that.

Alison Mack (13:52)

I was from birth, like, I want you to be happy with me all the time, you know? And I think even before I started acting, I was like, what do you want me to do? Okay, I'll do that. Where do you want Me to go, okay, I'll go there. You know, like, I just was like, I was that kind of constitution.

Natalie Robomed (14:10)

For Alison, this behavior carried onto set, where she gained a reputation as a director's actor, someone who would do whatever the director wanted and help get the rest of the cast in line.

Alison Mack (14:21)

The whole value of me as a human being was around being an actor and being a good actor. And I was special at school because I was a good actor. And then I also, like, conflated love with acting and being good, you know.

Natalie Robomed (14:36)

And her peers, the girls she should have been playing dress up and making mud pies with, they were competition. Allison says she would walk into a room and instantly take stock of everyone else, placing herself in a hierarchy among them.

Alison Mack (14:50)

That's automatically what you do when you walk into an audition room. Like, you look around at all the girls that are in the auditions and then say, oh, I know that girl because I tested with her three years ago for that thing. So I know she's good. And so then there's this weird, like you're pitted against each other and you're competing with each other constantly.

Narrator/Producer (15:06)

And the competition Alison experienced at those auditions, she felt it at home too.

Alison Mack (15:12)

My sister was born when I was nine and a half. And that was complicated for me because I was the little girl and I was the center of the universe in my family's home. And then my sister was born and I was like, who is this, you know, taking my spot? And I was angry and jealous and I didn't know where to put those feelings. And those feelings contradicted the perception that I had in the world where people always looked at me and were like, oh, she's such a nice girl and she's so sweet. And I was always like the good girl in school and la, la, la. And then I had these like, dark feelings about my sister.

Narrator/Producer (15:51)

Competition with other women would come to haunt her. And Alison's time as a young actress left her feeling older than she was at the time.

Alison Mack (16:00)

I didn't feel like I was 14. I didn't feel like I was a kid.

Natalie Robomed (16:04)

Before long, Allison moved to la.

Alison Mack (16:06)

I moved out of my parents house when I was 16 because I got a TV show with Chris Evans actually called the Opposite Sex. Hey, Kate.

Narrator/Producer (16:13)

Okay, this isn't for class.

Alison Mack (16:14)

You like reading for pleasure in it.

Narrator/Producer (16:16)

Allyson played a high school nerd named Kate. Like most teen TV shows from the time, the nerd was also incredibly gorgeous.

Alison Mack (16:24)

So I like run these groups and I lead the discussions. It's just people. Some Lawyers, some professors, a couple of writers. Wait.

Narrator/Producer (16:33)

Her on screen character was precocious. And so was she. She was only 16, had graduated high school early and was living in LA without her parents. She says that was intentional.

Alison Mack (16:47)

I really distanced myself from my family. My parents was kind of going through, like, individuation and having a hard time with my mom's dad, dependence on me, and just kind of angry and a teenager, you know, with too much money and freedom, you know.

Natalie Robomed (17:02)

But the show didn't last.

Alison Mack (17:04)

We got canceled, which is what happens to most shows. And my skin started to break out because I was a teenager and I had a makeup artist tell me I should go on Accutane.

Narrator/Producer (17:14)

Accutane is a powerful prescription used to treat acne that can have side effects.

Alison Mack (17:18)

So I went on Accutane, which we now know causes severe depression. And I plummeted, like, so depressed. My emotions were all messed up. And I'm newly living on my own in la and I had gained weight and, like, it was just I wasn't.

Natalie Robomed (17:35)

Working by the time she turned 18. During this low period, Alison encountered the man who would go on to become her first boyfriend, a rocker she met at the famous LA bar, the Viper Room. She'd actually been planning to leave LA and go study at the Royal Academy of Dramatic Arts in London, a serious drama school. But then she met this guy and got an audition for a show called Smallville.

Alison Mack (18:00)

Yeah, so I went in and I read for them and David Nutter, who was our director, who cast the show, and I got the part.

Natalie Robomed (18:09)

Alison was cast as Chloe Sullivan, another nerdy girl next door.

Alison Mack (18:13)

I always got the smart girls and I think part of that was because of my, like, weird fear of sexuality. Like, I never felt comfortable or confident being like the ingenue girl. So I always, always sort of like the. His girl Friday, the smart, quirky, funny, quit sidekick.

Natalie Robomed (18:29)

The show was filmed in Vancouver, so Alison upped and moved to Hollywood North. And right away, it was a fantasy, going to set every day, doing what she loved to do, being young in a beautiful new city with a group of cool friends.

Alison Mack (18:43)

This was like 2000. It was when Smallville premiered. So we didn't have social media. We were just so homey. And continued to be that way throughout the whole process of the show. Like, none of us ever got caught in the fame bubble or very conscious of our fame.

Narrator/Producer (19:00)

Alison didn't understand she was famous and she also didn't understand money. She was just 19 when the show.

Alison Mack (19:06)

Started airing and I was making $40,000 a week out of the gate, I had a financial person that took care of all my money, a business manager, and I didn't want to know about anything. And so they didn't tell me about anything.

Natalie Robomed (19:19)

She's got a dream job, a rock star boyfriend, more money than she knows what to do with. But actually, not everything was quite as dreamy with the boyfriend, who Alison does not want to identify.

Alison Mack (19:31)

So I was living in Vancouver and he was living in la and he was spending money so fast. Like, he was spending so much of the money that I was making so money. But it was like, easier for me to just like give him a credit card and deal than it was for me to stand up to him. Because standing up to him would turn into like these big, violent, name calling, horrible things.

Natalie Robomed (19:58)

I ask Alison if he hid her.

Alison Mack (20:00)

Not until the very end of the relationship, but he hit himself, you know, and he would, like, cut his own face. He would say, like, look at what you're making me do and chop up his own face and things like that. Horrible, gnarly things. And that was the first time that I got someone's initials burned into my body. I got his initial tattooed on my chest when I was 20. He had gotten a big. A tattoo on his chest. And then it was like, if you loved me, you would get the same thing. If you loved me, you would do this. And so then to prove to him, you know, my love for him, to try and make it so that he didn't hurt himself again, you know, I got tattooed on my chest and all the while I'm on Smallville, you know, so it's like, it was crazy. Like when I'll never forget one time, I mean, it's so embarrassing because like, the crew, the casting crew of Smallville.

Kristen Krug (20:58)

Saw me just like, I'm such a mess, you know, but all the while trying to, like, keep it together, you know, like, be perfect on camera. But I will never forget one time we were doing a scene, I was doing a scene with Tom, and they.

Alison Mack (21:15)

Were setting up for my close up.

Natalie Robomed (21:17)

Tom Welling, the actor who played Clark Kent.

Alison Mack (21:19)

And I walked away and I was.

Natalie Robomed (21:22)

On the phone, she's taking a call.

Alison Mack (21:24)

From her boyfriend, and he was just railing on me for something, just calling me all kinds of names and saying all these horrible things about me to me. And I was just like, okay, okay. You know, just like trying to calm him down and taking it. And the ad was like, allison, we're ready for you. We're ready for you. And I was like, okay. I have to go. And we're ready for you, Alison. We're waiting for you. I was like, okay, I have to go. And I hung up the phone and I walked onto set and I. They said, rolling, you know, as I was walking onto set and the director said, action. And I took a deep breath and I looked at Tom and I just lost it. And I said my lines, you know what I mean? Like, I was still able to, like, perform the dialogue, but, like, tears are streaming down my face. And they said, cut, you know? And the cameraman, like, looked around at me and he was like, are you okay? And I was like, yeah, I'm good. I was like, was that too much emotion? Did you want me to do something less? Because that was too strong. And they were like, yeah, maybe it was a little too much for the scene. And I was like, okay, cool. Let's do it again. I can. I can pull it back, you know?

Kristen Krug (22:28)

And it was like, I just, like, wrapped it into, like, what I was.

Alison Mack (22:31)

Doing, because that's just what you do, you know?

Kristen Krug (22:37)

And the embarrassing thing is, like, everybody.

Alison Mack (22:39)

Knew that, like, I was in a fucked up situation and that it wasn't healthy and that I wasn't well and whatever. But one of the people that was closest to me was like, allison, like, we love you, and you need to be with somebody that lifts you up.

Kristen Krug (22:55)

And he said, and that's all I'm.

Alison Mack (22:57)

Going to say, you know? So it took three years for me to get up from under that one.

Natalie Robomed (23:05)

It would take her 12 years to get away from the next man whose initials she got inscribed on her. But before then, she would have hurt a lot more people than just herself.

Ray Winstone (23:23)

Hello, it's Ray Winstone. I'm here to tell you about my podcast on BBC Radio 4 histories, Toughest Heroes. I got stories about the pioneers, the rebels, the outcasts who define tough. And that was the first time that anybody ever ran a car up that fast with no tires on. It almost feels like your eyeballs are going to come out of your head. Tough enough for you? Subscribe to History's Toughest Heroes wherever you get your podcast.

Narrator/Producer (24:03)

So while Allyson was living in Vancouver, she developed a really close friendship with another cast member on Smallville, Kristen Krug. Allyson was Clark Kent's best friend in this modern take on that very American story of Superman. And Kristen played Clark Kent's love interest on the show.

Kristen Krug (24:20)

That's the thing about Clark Kent.

Nancy Salzman (24:22)

He's not always there when you want.

Alison Mack (24:23)

Him, but he's always there when you need him.

Narrator/Producer (24:27)

Where Alison was the petite, perky blonde, Kristin was almost model beautiful. She's got these gorgeous light brown eyes and high, high cheekbones. And she's actually from Vancouver herself. But she and Alison started going far away from Vancouver together, taking exotic trips around the world.

Alison Mack (24:45)

We went to Syria and Turkey together. We went to Mongolia together. We went to Paris and we had so much fun. And that became kind of like a thing. Like, we went to Paris multiple times together and just shopped and saw art and sat at the. On the top of the Pompidou and had. And like, just like, lived this kind of like, dream thing. And we both were at the point where we were 25. We were in New York City together. It was our break, and we had rented an apartment in the same building in the West Village. And we both were like, why do we both. Why do we feel so unsatisfied? Like, we both had beautiful boyfriends and all the things. And yet both of us were talking about this weird ennui that we felt of like, just like, blech.

Natalie Robomed (25:26)

What is that?

Alison Mack (25:26)

You know? And I was like, I feel like this odd emptiness and it feels so wrong given the nature of my life, you know? And she was like, yeah, me too.

Natalie Robomed (25:42)

And there were people in Vancouver, in the actors circle there, who'd gotten into what seemed like a life coaching course. They wanted other local actors to join. It sounded light and fun. The name of the company giving the courses was nxivm.

Alison Mack (25:57)

It's the Science of Joy. It's the most amazing thing. It's made everything so much better in my life. You've gotta do this.

Natalie Robomed (26:03)

You've gotta do this. Alison says Kristen took a NXIVM course and came back and told her all about it.

Alison Mack (26:09)

It was like, all she could talk about. She was just, like, super excited about it. You know, she had a coach, and she was talking about Vanguard and Prefect, which are the names that you called Keith and Nancy at the time. But Kristin was like, there is an organization, Keith's Creative. It's just for women, and they're doing a weekend, and I think you should do it. And I think you'd really like it. And I was like, okay, well, if you think I should do it, I'll like it. Like, okay, like, I'll do it.

Natalie Robomed (26:37)

That first weekend course took place in a hotel conference room in Vancouver. I can picture it. Gray walls, strangely geometric tiled carpets, those long tablecloths that reach all the way to the floor. The course was taught by Nancy Salzman, a formidable woman with short, dark hair and a laser sharp focus. This is some archival video of Nancy explaining NXIVM's coursework.

Nancy Salzman (27:01)

Hello, I'm Nancy Salzman. Welcome to your first Origins class. Did you ever see the carnival game whack a Mole? There's this little mole, and he pops up, and he has this, like, little grassy hat on. So you take the sledgehammer and you knock down this mole, and you knock down this one, Knock one down, and another one pops up, and another one pops up and does this sound like your life?

Natalie Robomed (27:23)

Nancy's daughter Lauren was there too. Lauren's got the same dark hair as her mother and eyebrows that have also been tweezed to a very fine point, like a comma turned on its side.

Alison Mack (27:34)

I'm the head of the education division for the company. I love the curriculum, and I think I know better than anybody besides Keith and P how this stuff works and.

Narrator/Producer (27:42)

What to do with it.

Natalie Robomed (27:43)

Nancy's sermons focused on honesty, a core tenet of NXIVM's teachings, which emphasize each person being radically honest with themselves and taking accountability for their own actions.

Alison Mack (27:55)

We were learning about what's the purpose of mankind? And we were learning about, like, how does that relate to gender differences and relationships?

Natalie Robomed (28:04)

After Nancy's presentations, they'd split into breakout groups to dig deeper. It was empowering to Allison to spend a weekend hanging out with women, examining their selves and their role in society.

Alison Mack (28:15)

I liked the curriculum. Like, I liked what we were learning. We were learning about honesty and what does it mean to be honest? And we were.

Natalie Robomed (28:22)

After the weekend in Vancouver ended, Alison says they went to Kristin Krug's house with Nancy and some of the people.

Alison Mack (28:29)

From the course, and Nancy did, like, an EM demo. EM is like an exploration of meaning. And it was like this, like, amazing, therapeutic thing for people in nxivm. It was like the panacea kind of a thing. And you would bring an issue that you had to Nancy, and then Nancy would have this conversation with you where she would explore the meaning that you made around this concept or this problem that you have.

Natalie Robomed (28:55)

An EM is sort of a therapy session, but it almost sounds like something out of Scientology. It helps you destroy the problem almost instantly. Helps you go clear.

Alison Mack (29:05)

And then by the end of the conversation, you would be better and, like, you would feel different and everything would be better. So we all watched this person get their em, and it was like, whoa. That seemed to really help that person. So I was like, I want one of those. I want an em. And Nancy said, you know, What? We have an extra seat on our private plane. Does anybody want to come back to Albany with us tonight and meet Keith?

Natalie Robomed (29:33)

Keith Ranieri, the guy who everyone in NXIVM was talking about constantly. He didn't come to Vancouver, but everyone said that he was the guy who'd birthed all of NXIVM himself. They say he's the world's smartest and most ethical man. He is the guru.

Alison Mack (29:48)

And I was like, well, I got nothing to do for the next couple of days. I don't have to shoot anything until the end of next week. Like, yeah, I want to go.

Narrator/Producer (29:58)

The private plane they were taking belonged to Claire Bronfman, the mega rich Seagram Air and Nexium devotee. Her grandfather grew present day Seagram into a giant conglomerate from a distillery in Montreal in the 1920s. On the tarmac outside the jet, Allison walks up the steps and into paradise.

Alison Mack (30:20)

It was my first time ever on a private plan. Clean. It's like what you see on tv. Like, it's, you know, there's like several chairs. You know, a pilot. And he was like, do you want to watch the takeoff? And like, I sat up in the front with him as we took off.

Natalie Robomed (30:33)

I can imagine Allison looking out through the cockpit, seeing the horizon broaden before her. Not only is she a successful actor with lots of money and the ability to travel wherever she wants, now she's literally seeing the world in a new way.

Narrator/Producer (30:47)

Way.

Natalie Robomed (30:48)

Opening her eyes and mind to new possibilities.

Alison Mack (30:52)

I remember we didn't have to sit in the chair. We could sit on the floor. Which I was like, what? I'm on the floor in the plane? That's weird.

Natalie Robomed (30:58)

Up here in a private plane, the rules didn't apply. So Allison settles down cross legged with all the spiritual seekers from Nexium. Nancy Salzman, Lauren Salzman, and Claire Bronfman. These amazing, powerful women who seem to be so deep and have all the answers for the ennui she'd been feeling. They land in Albany, a small city in upstate New York nestled on the Hudson River. From the airport, they pile into cars. Nexium members, as a rule, drove BMWs because Keith thought they were the best made cars. And Allison heads to Nancy's house in the suburb of Clifton park, about 25 minutes from the city. But pretty much as soon as they arrive, Nancy disappears. And Allison is told to hang tight. Someone would come get her so she can go to volleyball. Yes, volleyball.

Alison Mack (31:53)

And I was like, okay, cool. And they were like, but it's gonna be, like, late like, middle of the night. Cause they play volleyball. They start playing volleyball at midnight. And I was like, that's weird. And they were like, well, Keith is not on a regular person's schedule, and they like to have privacy when they play volleyball. So that's why they play in the middle of the night. So I was like, all right. Okay.

Natalie Robomed (32:19)

Allison waits and waits. And then late at night, as the sleep is threatening to push at the corners of Alison's eyes, a woman arrives.

Narrator/Producer (32:28)

To pick her up.

Alison Mack (32:29)

She's in a BMW suv. And we go to the volleyball court, and there's, like, a whole bunch of people there. It's like the middle of the night, and there's, like, tons of people. I was like, whoa. Okay.

Natalie Robomed (32:42)

If you've seen HBO's the Vow, you know the scene. Alison's talking about brightly lit volleyball courts, the sound of sneakers squeaking on the floor, dozens of shorts wearing NXIVM men vaulting volleyballs back and forth while throngs of women watch from the sidelines.

Alison Mack (32:58)

And I go walking into the gym, and I just went and sat down, and I was like, watching them play volleyball and just kind of waiting. And they finished a set, and Keith came over, and they introduced him to me.

Natalie Robomed (33:12)

Keith's short.

Narrator/Producer (33:13)

He's wearing a black T shirt, shorts, knee pads, and he's got his long hair pulled back in a ponytail with a sweatband on top.

Alison Mack (33:21)

I wasn't expecting, like, some big, studly. Like, I didn't think, like, whoa, he's so hot. Like, I thought, he's an old, geeky dude. He looked like somebody that my dad did an opera with when I was in Germany. Like, he just looked like a normal white dude. And, I mean, yes, he's a total geek with his headband and his glasses and his volleyball thing, whatever. And he said, it's nice to meet you. Do you have a question for me? And I was like, a question? And he said, yeah. I said, I didn't know I was supposed to prepare a question. And he said, well, you didn't have to prepare a question, but some people like to ask me questions. And I was like, oh, I don't have a question. I just thought I'd come and smile and cheer you guys on and it would be okay. And he went, oh, is that how you do life?

Narrator/Producer (34:13)

Is that how you do life? He says, this is Alison's first time meeting Keith. And now Alison, the successful young actress, is already being put on her back foot. She feels as though she's done something wrong, which, for a People pleaser like Allison throws her into a tailspin.

Alison Mack (34:32)

When he said, oh, is that how you do life? I was like, I don't think so. I don't think I just stand on the sidelines and smile. But, like, maybe. I don't know.

Natalie Robomed (34:41)

After this interaction, Alison's ride asks her if she wants to head out.

Alison Mack (34:45)

And I was like, okay, yeah. I mean, I'm getting kind of tired, so let's go. So we get in the car to go home, and I said, nobody told me I had to prepare a question. And she said, you didn't have to prepare a question. And I said, but Keith asked me if I had a question, and I didn't know that he was going to ask me that. And she was like, well, some people have questions for him. And I was like, well, why? And she was like, well, he's like the smartest man in the world. So usually when people meet the smartest man in the world, they may have questions for him. And I was like, so I can ask him anything? And she said, yeah, you can ask him anything. And I was like, oh. And I thought, well, then I do have a question. And she was like, do you want to go back? And I said, yeah. And so we turned around and we went back. And by this point, it was like 3 o' clock in the morning. And I walk into the gym and I said, I thought of a question. And he said, oh, okay. And I sat down and he made me wait till they finished the whole game.

Natalie Robomed (35:43)

On set. Allison's the talent. She's the person people wait for. But with Keith, it was the other way around.

Alison Mack (35:50)

So I waited for, like, probably an hour.

Natalie Robomed (35:54)

Eventually, Keith DS to come talk to her again.

Alison Mack (35:58)

He came over and sat next to me. And the whole room came and sat down, like, around us. It was so bizarre. And I was like, okay, this is weird, but, like, I'm a performer. And like, I. Okay, like, sure. You guys want to sit and watch us? Like, sure. And Mark was there with the camera filming us.

Natalie Robomed (36:17)

Mark Vicente, another prominent NXIVM member and filmmaker.

Alison Mack (36:21)

And I think somebody even said, like, we film everything Keith says, because he's so brilliant, we don't want to miss anything. And I was like, okay. And he said, what's your question?

Natalie Robomed (36:32)

The question Alison has for Keith is, what is art?

Alison Mack (36:36)

And he took me on this really wild exploration of art, and essentially at the end said, like, art itself is nothing, but what you make of art is everything. So essentially, art is a reflection of whoever you are and whatever you are. Inside. And no one had ever said anything like that to me. Like, no one had ever turned anything around. I was so externally focused and my parents were so externally focused that the idea that what I was seeing outside that I thought was so beautiful was a reflection of me inside was like. Like blew my mind, you know?

Natalie Robomed (37:08)

Alison starts to cry. This is what she's been searching for, meaning. And now she's found it here in Albany in an amazing group that so many of her friends are a part of, run by a principled man called Keith Ranieri. It's a lot for her to take in, overwhelming even.

Alison Mack (37:27)

And I felt, like, discombobulated and disoriented about what he was saying to me. It almost felt like the ground was, like, shift. It was bizarre experience. And he said, are you okay? And I was like, yeah, yeah, I'm okay. I'm just feeling a little disoriented. That was a lot.

Narrator/Producer (37:47)

Alison seems so earnest, so desperate to please. She reminds me of all the musical theater girls in high school who I found performative. And her question, to me, a snobby Ivy League grad, seems like a sort of elementary one. Philosophy of Art 101. But it's easier to laugh at someone than wonder where they're coming from. That's part of what I'm trying to do here. Push past my gut reactions to understand how and why Alison got sucked into NXIVM and what drove her to do the things she did. Because it didn't happen overnight. 12 years is a long time. Alison would leave Vancouver and leave LA and move to Albany. She would become one of Keith's top students. All of these threads of her childhood. People pleasing, wanting desperately to be liked by authority figures, competing with other women would start weaving together, pushing her to become the best NXIVM pupil, the best workshop leader, the best cult member. A person capable of doing horrible things.

Natalie Robomed (38:59)

And one of those awful things was being part of the group of women who helped dozens of other women get a body modification under questionable circumstances. In many ways, it was an eerie echo of what had happened to Alison so many years earlier when she had that initial of a boyfriend tattooed on herself. In a quiet house, one woman lays on a massage table. The lights are off. The smell of singed human flesh is in the air. These women are getting the initials of Alison's. You could say boyfriend, Keith Ranieri inscribed on them. But she's not telling them that. And what they're getting is not a tattoo, of course. It's something much, much worse.

Narrator/Producer (39:52)

A brand Burned into the delicate skin above the hip bone with a cauterizing iron.

Natalie Robomed (39:58)

The fine point of the searing hot pen comes in contact with flesh.

Narrator/Producer (40:04)

It sizzles. This woman is one of her slaves, someone Allison has made an oath to help and protect. But she hasn't protected them. She's been telling some of them to seduce Keith sexually. Allison doesn't want to talk about this part of the story, and especially not the branding I can feel bothers her that she's associated with this horrific graphic mark of the cult.

Natalie Robomed (40:32)

But she's so associated with it.

Narrator/Producer (40:34)

Some of these women would come to believe the brand actually contained Alison's initials. It wasn't true, but it was a rumor that would catch on like wildfire. And now Alison must talk about it.

Natalie Robomed (40:47)

She must take responsibility.

Alison Mack (40:55)

People think the sorority was kind of like your hunting ground or something.

Narrator/Producer (40:59)

I have at least one polyamorous partner.

Alison Mack (41:03)

That is in the sorority. He's flirting with somebody younger, prettier, more famous, more popular, you know, whatever, than you. And you start to realize you aged out before you were even 30. He said, in order for me to help you with that, we're gonna have to be physically intimate. I'm nervous about putting every asset that.

Narrator/Producer (41:22)

We have on the line.

Alison Mack (41:24)

When I'm not sure that her allegiance is to us and not Keith, I go into his suite and I lock it down, and I'm like, get the fuck out of here. Like, go out the window. And all I can think of is just protect Keith.

Natalie Robomed (41:35)

How do you feel about having been involved in bringing sexual trauma to other people?

Alison Mack (41:43)

I mean, I don't even know how to answer that question.

Natalie Robomed (41:55)

You've been listening to Uncover Alison after nxivm from CBC and Campside Media. It's hosted by me, Natalie Robomed. Our executive producers are myself and Vanessa Gregoriadis at Campside and Stephen Belver. Our senior producer is Lily Houston Smith. Smith. And our associate producer is Emma Siminoff. Sound design, mix and Engineering by Mark McAdam and Ewin Lai Trimuin. Thank you to Colin Campbell at cbc. Our story editor is Derek John. And our senior producer is Kate Evans. Our coordinating producer is Emily Kinnell. Our executive producers are Cecil Fernandez and Chris Oak. Tonya Springer is the senior manager. Arif Nuran is the director. If you enjoyed Allison after nxivm, please rate and review the show wherever you get your podcasts.

Alison Mack (42:44)

Thanks for listening.

Natalie Robomed (42:51)

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