Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly

Episode: Bookmarks
Date: October 25, 2025
Host: Terry O'Reilly

Episode Overview

This special "Bookmarks" episode is Terry O’Reilly’s annual deep dive into fascinating stories and insights gathered from books he’s encountered while researching for "Under the Influence"—the kind of gems that don’t make the cut for regular episodes. With wit and warmth, O'Reilly dwells on themes of creativity, iteration, groupthink, storytelling, and the magic of music, weaving in anecdotes from children's classics to blockbuster films to rock legends, all to show how ideas are built, challenged, and ultimately brought to life.

Main Themes and Key Insights

1. The Quiet Revolution of "Goodnight Moon"

(03:10–07:40)

• Background and Cultural Impact
  • O’Reilly opens with a reflection on the beloved children’s book Goodnight Moon and author Margaret Wise Brown.
  • Describes the book’s soothing effect: “Our daughters loved that book. When they were young, we would read it to them and they would always whisper again.” (05:13)
  • Explains that Brown observed small children are drawn to “rhythm and sounds and patterns,” not plot.
  • Notes Brown’s unique writing process: first drafts in minutes, two years on polishing.
  • Touches on its initial rejection for lack of plot—NYC Library refused to carry it for 26 years.
  • Shares Brown’s tragic, quirky end, and her posthumous legacy: “At the time of her death, Goodnight Moon had only sold a few thousand copies. 75 years later it has sold over 48 million.” (06:44)

2. Iteration: The Real Creative Secret

(07:57–14:30)

• Key Book: How to Fly a Horse by Kevin Ashton
  • Creativity is not magic, it’s hard work and perseverance.
  • “There is no trick, there are no shortcuts, no alternatives to hard work. Imagination needs iteration.” (08:39)
  • George Shuba’s baseball practice: 600 swings/night, over 46,200 a winter, for 15 years—not a natural, but a practitioner.
    • “He wasn’t a natural. He was a great hitter because he put in the hard work.” (10:10)
  • Applies this lesson to music (The Beatles, Bowie, Einstein): success is cumulative, not a lightning bolt.

3. Fluidity and Friction Fuel Creative Teams

(12:36–17:28)

• Key Book: Dream Teams by Shane Snow
  • Creativity stagnates with “best practices” and sameness; friction is essential.
    • “Groupthink eliminates friction, and creativity requires friction.” (13:54)
    • Shares a personal anecdote about a team devil’s advocate whose disruptions sparked better ideas.
      • “It triggered not just debate, but productive debate.... The Devil’s advocate didn’t have the better idea, but his resistance... led us all down a fresher path.” (14:56)
  • Cites Mary Wells Lawrence: "Big wastepaper baskets are advertising’s most important accessory." (15:55)
  • John Hunt (The Art of the Idea): “If you want something new to emerge, you need sparks caused by the happy friction of two people thinking over a problem from opposing angles.” (16:24)
  • The necessity of “intellectual humility” and paying attention to outsiders and unorthodox ideas.

4. The Value of Hunches in Discovery and Storytelling

(18:55–22:50)

• Key Book: Where Good Ideas Come From by Steven Johnson

  • “Johnson’s point in his book is that hunches are valuable. Great ideas usually arrive half baked.... Never let a hunch grow cold. A hunch is creativity trying to tell you something.” (20:32)
  • The Phoenix Memo: Two separate FBI hunches could have changed history had they been connected.
    • "If those hunches had been taken seriously. It would have possibly changed the history of the early 21st century." (20:20)

• Key Book: Laughing Matters by Larry Gelbart

  • MAS*H was an antiwar show that unintentionally encouraged military enlistment.
  • Structure is vital: “A good story cannot go from A to C without having a B. Once a story misses a crucial beat, the audience won’t invest any more time in it.” (22:20)
  • Anecdote: MAS*H outlasted the Korean War’s real duration, but “the Korean war wasn’t only 30 minutes long once a week, and it didn’t have commercials.” (22:50)
  • O'Reilly's reflection: “What you say and what people hear are often two different things.” (21:55)

5. Music as Storytelling in Cinema and Advertising

(25:39–32:30)

• Key Book: 100 Greatest Film Scores by Matt Lawson & Lawrence MacDonald

  • Jaws' Score:

    • Spielberg’s shark malfunction turned into a masterclass of suggestion, with John Williams' theme:
      • “When John Williams played his ominous two-note motif to Spielberg for the first time, Spielberg laughed out loud and said, ‘You’re not serious.’ Thankfully, John Williams was deadly serious.” (27:14)
    • Williams’ music evokes the shark’s presence—“We feel it all because of William's visceral score.” (29:39)

  • The Magnificent Seven Score:

    • Elmer Bernstein’s theme gave energy to a slow-paced film and became the sound of Americana.
    • “Bernstein’s score is considered a landmark… until Jaws and Star Wars appeared in the 1970s. His score also caught the imagination of Madison Avenue when the Marlboro Man jumped from print to television.” (30:44)
    • Even the music’s instrumentation was innovative (tuba, not French horn).

  • The Power of Music in Messaging

    • “Music tells you how to feel. Listening to the work of John Williams and Elmer Bernstein, you understand that concept completely.” (31:12)

Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Iteration:
  • “All great discoveries are short hops, that creation comes from a succession of ordinary acts.” (08:24)
• On the cost of groupthink:
  • “Best practices is a form of groupthink. Groupthink eliminates friction, and creativity requires friction.” (13:54)
• On the importance of hunches:
  • “A hunch is creativity trying to tell you something.” (20:37)
• On storytelling and structure:
  • “Once the story springs a leak, the audience falls out of the boat.” (22:42)
• On creative persistence:
  • “One bad idea leads to a less bad idea. That leads to a good idea. That can lead to a brilliant idea.” (32:17)

Takeaways

• Creativity is work, not magic; success accumulates through repeated attempts and learning from failures.
• Friction and dissent within creative groups produce stronger, more innovative ideas than consensus ever could.
• Hunches and inklings are often the seeds for breakthrough moments; teams and systems must nurture them, not dismiss them.
• The structure of stories and the use of music shape how messages—be they in entertainment or advertising—are received and remembered.
• The best creators remain open and humble, recognizing when it’s time to change their minds or embrace “outsiders.”

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|---------------------------------------------| | 03:10 | Goodnight Moon & Margaret Wise Brown | | 07:57 | Iteration & Creativity; Kevin Ashton | | 12:36 | Friction in Teams; Shane Snow & Groupthink | | 18:55 | Hunches; Steven Johnson & Storytelling | | 25:39 | Music as Storytelling; Film Scores | | 32:17 | Episode Takeaways/Summary |

Closing Tone

Terry O’Reilly’s storytelling remains equal parts fascinating, conversational, and gently humorous. He brings warmth to the behind-the-scenes details, always reinforcing that, whether shaping a children’s classic, a rock persona, or an unforgettable film score, the alchemy of creativity lies in grind, open-mindedness, friction, and the courage to follow every promising hunch.

Memorable Outro Fact:
“David Bowie wrote the song ‘Golden Years’ for Elvis Presley, but Elvis didn’t like it. So Bowie recorded it himself and sang it like Elvis.” (32:54)