Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly: Interview with Max Kerman

Podcast Information:

• Title: Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly
• Host/Author: Apostrophe Podcast Network
• Episode: Interview with Author & Arkells Frontman Max Kerman
• Release Date: April 22, 2025

Introduction and Background

In this episode of Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly, Terry engages in an insightful conversation with Max Kerman, the lead singer and frontman of the Canadian band Arkells. Max recently authored his first book, "Try Hard Creative Work in Progress," which delves into the intricacies of songwriting, collaboration, managing a band, and marketing music. The book is praised for its humorous and conversational tone, offering a practical framework to enhance creativity in one's work.

Motivation Behind the Book

Max begins by addressing the common trope of rock 'n' roll autobiographies that focus on the glamorized aspects of a musician's life, such as touring adventures, sex, and drugs. Instead, he expresses his disinterest in these narratives, preferring to explore the "nuts and bolts" of being a musician.

[04:29] Max Kerman: "People have said you should write a book because people like rock and roll autobiographies. But I don't particularly like those kinds of books."

Max's passion lies in the everyday realities of managing a band, from financial considerations to the logistics of starting shows and improving performances. This shift in focus stems from conversations where Max noticed listeners were more intrigued by the day-to-day aspects of his life rather than sensationalized stories.

Analyzing the Creative Process

Max emphasizes the importance of dissecting the creative process to understand what works and what doesn't, rather than relying on the notion of "magic" in creativity.

[05:35] Max Kerman: "I'm constantly analyzing what is working and what is feeling good and what's not feeling good anymore."

He shares his experience of collaborating with producer John Fields, which taught him that vocal performances don't always need to be confined to traditional settings like vocal booths. This revelation pushed Max to continuously evolve and adapt his creative methods.

Collaboration and Teamwork

Drawing parallels between his experience in advertising and band dynamics, Max discusses the significance of collaboration. Unlike static pairings in advertising agencies, bands often face the challenge of working with new members without established relationships. Max attributes his ability to collaborate with new individuals to his openness and willingness to be vulnerable.

[08:22] Max Kerman: "I'm just able to let my guard down a little bit and be vulnerable."

He underscores the value of collective intelligence and continuous learning within a team, highlighting how his band's manager, Ash, contributes fresh perspectives that keep their creativity dynamic.

Writing Process and Flow State

Max reveals his preference for writing in bustling environments like coffee shops, where the surrounding stimuli fuel his creativity. He values the feedback loop with his partner, Ash, which helps refine his ideas and maintain creative momentum.

[10:13] Max Kerman: "I like the hustle and bustle. I like that it provides just a little bit of distraction."

He likens the feeling of being in a "flow state" to that of writing ads or engaging in intensive creative tasks, where time seems to disappear, allowing ideas to flow seamlessly.

Flow State and Enjoying Work

The concept of flow is pivotal in Max's creative process. He distinguishes between the immersive act of creating and the meticulous nature of editing, emphasizing that enjoying the creative process leads to more productive and meaningful work.

[12:07] Max Kerman: "There's nothing like it. The experience of educating yourself as you write down your own ideas is incredibly valuable."

Max encourages readers to find enjoyment in their work, positing that passion and fascination with the process result in better outcomes and a more fulfilling creative journey.

Entrepreneurial Aspects of Being in a Band

Max discusses the entrepreneurial side of being a band member, where discipline and self-motivation are crucial. He expresses gratitude for the unique opportunity to pursue his passion full-time, acknowledging that many creatives juggle their artistic endeavors alongside conventional jobs.

[18:37] Max Kerman: "I recognize how precious the job is and how unique it is. We have to work hard to hold onto it."

This perspective fosters a deep sense of purpose and drives the band to continuously produce and perform, ensuring they remain dedicated to their craft.

Success Stories and the Role of Hard Work

Max shares the story of how their song "Knocking at the Door" gained prominence. Despite initial setbacks, including selling only six EPs, persistent hard work and seizing opportunities led to the song being featured in a Budweiser commercial, ultimately becoming a number one hit in Canada for 14 weeks.

[21:26] Max Kerman: "It was an interesting combination of a creative spark and a deadline conversation."

This narrative underscores the synergy between relentless effort and serendipitous moments, illustrating how hard work can create opportunities that might seem like luck.

Lessons from Bruce Springsteen

Attending a Bruce Springsteen concert provided Max with invaluable lessons in performance and audience engagement. He observes Springsteen's meticulous preparation and genuine connection with the audience, which transforms a concert into a magical experience.

[24:31] Max Kerman: "It's about being prepared and these little gestures that show to the audience that you care."

Max applies these insights to his own performances, striving to create authentic and engaging experiences for their fans.

Courage in Creativity

Max emphasizes the importance of being brave, even if just for a short period. He recounts an anecdote where miscommunication led to unforeseen opportunities, highlighting that fears about others' perceptions often unfounded.

[27:14] Max Kerman: "Summoning the courage to be brave for five minutes is always a good idea because it leads to opportunities."

This philosophy encourages creatives to take risks and embrace the unknown, fostering growth and unexpected successes.

Dealing with Negative Feedback

Navigating negative feedback, especially in the age of social media, is a challenge Max addresses thoughtfully. He advises maintaining a balanced perspective by limiting online engagements and focusing on genuine connections outside the creative sphere.

[35:50] Max Kerman: "This is a good lesson: play for the crowd and not for anybody else."

By prioritizing the audience's needs over critics' opinions, Max ensures that their creative output remains authentic and audience-focused.

The 'What If' Method

Max advocates for the "What If" approach to creativity, encouraging continuous idea exploration without fear of judgment. He credits this method for generating innovative concepts and fostering a collaborative environment.

[38:49] Max Kerman: "Bad ideas can generate really good ideas quickly."

This strategy promotes an open-minded and iterative creative process, essential for sustained innovation and artistic evolution.

Protecting Your Brand

Max underscores the importance of maintaining brand integrity when collaborating with external entities. He recounts their collaboration with Mazda, where they ensured the partnership aligned with their values and provided authentic experiences for their fans.

[40:30] Max Kerman: "We have to do it on our own terms to maintain the authenticity and trust we've built with our audience."

By safeguarding their brand, Max ensures that all collaborations enhance rather than dilute their artistic identity.

Using Creativity to Be Useful

Highlighting the impact of their music on listeners' lives, Max emphasizes the responsibility that comes with being creative. He shares a poignant story of a band performance that provided solace to a family facing hardship, illustrating how art can offer meaningful support.

[46:47] Max Kerman: "It's our duty to be useful because what else are we doing in this world here if we're not looking out for each other."

This ethos of utility reinforces the band's commitment to creating music that resonates deeply and supports their community.

Key Takeaways

Max Kerman's "Try Hard Creative Work in Progress" encapsulates his belief that creativity is accessible and grounded in continuous effort and enjoyment. He encourages creatives to:

1. Analyze the Creative Process: Understand what works and evolve accordingly.
2. Embrace Collaboration: Value diverse skills within a team.
3. Maintain Momentum: Find ways to enjoy the work to sustain productivity.
4. Be Entrepreneurial: Discipline and self-motivation are essential.
5. Take Risks: Courage leads to unforeseen opportunities.
6. Focus on the Audience: Prioritize genuine connection over critics' opinions.
7. Protect Your Brand: Ensure collaborations align with your values.
8. Use Creativity to Serve Others: Create with the intent to support and impact positively.

[49:22] Max Kerman: "How do you enjoy this work? Because if you enjoy it, you will do more of it and your life will be more fun."

Max's overarching message is to integrate enjoyment into the creative process, transforming hard work into a fulfilling journey rather than a burdensome task.

Conclusion

This episode offers a comprehensive exploration of Max Kerman's approach to creativity, emphasizing the blend of hard work, collaboration, and purpose-driven artistry. Max's insights provide valuable lessons for anyone navigating the creative landscape, highlighting that success is a culmination of persistent effort, meaningful connections, and the joy derived from one's work.