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Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly
The Beatlology Interviews: Producer Mark Hudson
00:39:21
Mark has produced nine albums for Ringo. Before that, he was part of the Hudson Brothers. They had hit songs and the Hudson Brothers Razzle Dazzle TV show made them teen idols in the 70s. Mark is a…
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- [00:01]
Terry O'Reilly
Hey, you could be listening to next week's episode right now. Subscribers too. But wait, there's more. Get early access every week. They enjoy Ad Free episodes, Ad Free archives and they get bonus episodes every month. Just go to Apple Podcasts and enjoy your 7 day free trial now.
- [00:23]
Mark Hudson
My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for Career.
- [00:28]
Unknown
Day and said he was a big roas man.
- [00:30]
Mark Hudson
Then he told everyone how much he.
- [00:32]
Unknown
Loved calculating his return on ad spend.
- [00:35]
Mark Hudson
My friends still laugh at me to this day.
- [00:38]
Unknown
Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn you'll be able to reach people who do. Get a $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to LinkedIn.com results to claim your credit. That's LinkedIn.com results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn the place to Be To Be hey guys, have you heard of Gold Belly? It's this amazing site where they ship the most iconic famous foods from restaurants across the country, anywhere nationwide. I've never found a more perfect gift than food. They ship Chicago Deep dish pizza, New York bagels, Maine lobster rolls and even Ina Garten's famous cakes. So if you're looking for a gift for the food lover in your Life, head to goldbelly.com and get 20% off your first order with promo code Gift. This podcast is brought to you by Aura 2024 has seen a surge in high profile data breaches, raising serious concerns about the security of personal information. Dell's breach exposed 3.9 million customer records. That's why we're thrilled to partner with Aura. Aura monitors the dark web for users, phone numbers, emails and Social Security numbers, delivering real time alerts if any suspicious activity is detected. Additionally, Aura provides up to $5 million in identity theft insurance, offering a robust safety net in the event of a worst case scenario. For a limited time, Aura is offering our listeners a 14 day trial plus a check of your data to see if your personal information has been leaked online. All for free when you visit aura.comsafety that's aura.com safety to sign up for a 14 day free trial and start protecting you and your loved ones. That's aura.com safety. Certain terms apply, so be sure to check the site for details.
- [02:23]
Terry O'Reilly
This is an apostrophe podcast production.
- [02:45]
Mark Hudson
Beetleology.
- [02:50]
Terry O'Reilly
Back in the late 90s I was a co founder of a magazine called Beatology. It was a magazine dedicated to Beatle fans and collectors. We talked to top collectors around the world in auction houses as well as celebrity collectors and people who knew and worked with The Beatles. Those interviews stayed in my office drawer for 25 years. So we thought it would be interesting to dust them off. Mark Hudson first gained fame as part of the Hudson Brothers. Together with Brett Hudson and Bill Hudson, they had a hit television show in the early 70s, became teen idols and the Hudson brothers had several hit songs on the charts. After the group peaked, the brothers went their separate ways. Brett Hudson worked in television, Bill Hudson went on to produce movies including Father of the Bride starring Steve Martin and by the way, Bill is the father of Kate Hudson. And Mark went on to become an in demand songwriter and record producer. He was the bandleader for Joan Rivers late night Talk show. In 2004, Sharon Osbourne recruited him to be the vocal coach for for the British TV show the X Factor. And back in 1998, Mark produced Ringo Starr's solo album titled Vertical Man. Mark would go on to produce Ringo's records for the next 10 years. And that's how he came to meet Mark Hudson back in 1999. He's a fun interview. He has spent time with all four Beatles and not only is he a Beatles superfan, he can imitate them all effortlessly as you will hear. Like most of North America, Mark Hudson first saw the Beatles that famous night on February 9, 1964 on the Ed Sullivan Show.
- [04:57]
Mark Hudson
When they came to do the Ed Sullivan show, it truly was an event. I'm talking about like your grandmother was being coronated. There were people sitting in front of the tv like we would wait to go see a concert live. There were kids waiting in front of the television and parents as well. Truly a historic moment. It was kind of odd when I produced Ringo's record. I was sort of reluctant to get too beetle ish in my question. Even though I've known Ringo for a long time, it's really a sensitive area for him and for them because it was their life.
- [05:32]
Terry O'Reilly
Mark first started collecting Beatles memorabilia right after he saw the Beatles in concert in his hometown of Portland, Oregon on August 22, 1965. The Beatles performed twice that day, the only time the band would visit Oregon. They were paid $50,000 for each performance and ticket prices range from $4 to $6. And Mark held one of those tickets after he saw them live. He was hooked.
- [06:01]
Mark Hudson
You know something, I started collecting especially, you know, my Beatle collection started when I first saw them in concert. That was the 1965 tour, I think it was. I would have been 12, 13.
- [06:17]
Terry O'Reilly
Part of Mark's extensive Beatle collection comprises of outtakes from Beatles recording sessions.
- [06:24]
Mark Hudson
I'll never forget when Jeff Lynn was doing his last solo album. I have all these vintage guitars. You know, speaking of collecting, you know, I've only sold one guitar in my life. And I been doing this really, since about 1963. 64. And even though I was extremely young, my first record deal, I was 15 years old. I remember that I've been collecting Beatles stuff for the longest time and over the years and stuff because I got to know John during the last weekend. Because, you know, Harry Nielsen was another really good friend. Yeah, I was producing Harry's last record from Time to. It was so weird because I had collected this stuff. And Yoko had given me outtakes of this and that. And over the years I'd collected the stuff. And I made a tape of them doing Can't Buy Me Love. And John writing Strawberry Fields. And when they were doing Help. And you know that part, Help me if you can I'm feeling down and won't you please that guitar goes doodle nana doodle. You know, the groovy guitar line. They were playing it live, like they were cutting the track. And when it got to that part, they stopped. And then George would say in this sort of quiet voice, I can't play that. It's too fast. John being the sort of cheerleader. Come on, man, you can do it. And he had the gun. It's not an argument, but sort of, come on, you can do it like this. And then help me go again. Okay, here we go. Help me if you can I'm feeling down Won't you play it? It's too fast. I'll put us on lights. So I was talking to Jeff Lynn, who was borrowing my guitars, and I made him this tape. And he was like, over the moon. Oh, my gosh. Because he's a beetle freak as well. And he said, oh, this is great. You're going to make a couple of copies. I said, look, the whole thing for me is I don't believe in the bootlegging guy, even though I participated in it, because I would be buying them and stuff. But I don't believe in guys making money off of stuff. You have to see who is my friend. And if you want to make one, I'll just make one for Petty. I'll make one for George. And he named some people that were way out of my league. So he ended up making it and everyone really, really enjoyed it. And he went to give George his copy. And when Jeff tells me the story, it's like he went to give George the copy of his things George, this is great. Mark Hudson has this Beatles stuff that, you know, no one's ever heard. And it's like you guys laughing and yelling and doing all that stuff. It's so great. I made you a copy. And George said, no, thanks. Well, why don't you want it, man? You know, I was there. You don't think about that, you know, being fans and stuff, we never think about it. But that, to them, was their life. So my Beetle Question thing, when I got to hang out with John, he would say, I had one Beetle question a day. So I would pick my moment and then say, she's well acquainted with the touch of a velvet hand. Like a lizard on a windowpane. That's so great. What does it mean? What it means nothing that comes off my mouth sounding good, man.
- [09:13]
Terry O'Reilly
The first record Mark Hudson ever bought wasn't a Beatles album.
- [09:18]
Mark Hudson
The first thing I ever got was Elvis Presley. And they were 45. Kind of cool because I grew up without a dad. But I never suffered from the generation gap, musically, that parents have had with their children. So my mom and my uncles and all my Italian family would be walking around the house singing I'm All Sugarcoat. So it wasn't like I had to go do something bad. Like, I get to go to the record store and sneak one of those under the Johnny Mathis cut. My mom was buying us Elvis.
- [09:50]
Terry O'Reilly
But when it came to the Beatles, Mark ran out and bought the first Fab Four album issued in America.
- [09:56]
Mark Hudson
I obviously meet the Beatles as soon as I knew that came out. At that point, I'd already had Beatlewigs, and they were made out of, like, you know, crepe paper. God forbid anyone was smoking, you'd go up.
- [10:06]
Terry O'Reilly
Mark started collecting Beatles memorabilia almost immediately. Before anyone knew that Beatles merch would become so valuable, you know, in those days.
- [10:15]
Mark Hudson
Once again, see, the cool thing is the power of merchandising. We didn't really know so much like they do now. Now they make more money in merchandising than they do in playing the concert. But there was some stuff. I have some buttons. I still have my Beetle wig from the concert. My mom, which I can't really get from her because she's the one that got it. But we still have our ticket stubs. That's pretty cool. See, it's all that kind of stuff.
- [10:38]
Terry O'Reilly
Most fans wouldn't know enough to keep all the tickets and the paper items and all the other small merchandise.
- [10:44]
Mark Hudson
You would, except for the fact that. See what ended up happening to me in this Case, there's a lot of my friends that have moved on, and I don't want to sound like Mr. Obsession, but Beatles became my reason for existing. They turned me on to music. I became a musician, I became a band, I became a Hudson brother, became a producer and a writer. And it's all directly related. Like, on the Ringo record, I got to work with Paul down at his house. He had heard the record. And there's one of the songs called what in the World, when we wrote it, I'm a Beatle freak so what in the world can I do? Living in a world without you to the minor chord, very Revolver. And Paul was going to play bass and sing on it. I was frightened enough, the fact that I had to be there and be a producer, as opposed to just hug him, you know, because part of me just wanted to do go like, you understand, because of who I am, you know, it's all that sort of stuff. I mean, not only that, though, I was a producer and the producer has to have some kind of respect. Imagine if Captain Kirk was walking around going, oh, you're so cute, you know, it doesn't work when you're Captain Kirk. You gotta fly the plane. And so I'm there trying to be a producer, but I'm working with all of these guys and George. And George Martin. The only Beatle that was missing was John, and he's somewhere inside of me, you know, his inspiration and all that stuff. It's like he is still there, just that he wasn't there physically.
- [12:03]
Terry O'Reilly
Mark owns a lot of interesting Beatles memorabilia, but he has one particular piece that he, well, let's say, found at Abbey Road.
- [12:13]
Mark Hudson
You know, there's a story behind it. I'm admitting that I'm a thief, but it's a cool story. Steven Tyler had sung on the song Drift Away. We did a sort of, not a duet, but a triplet with Alanis Morissette and a groovy Canadian and a dear friend and so talented is scary. And Steven Tyler from Aerosmith is exactly the same. He's one of my dearest friends. And these guys came down to sing Drift Away. Well, then a political thing sort of happened where Stephen was no longer allowed to be on the record. So we had to replace Stephen. And I was in London at the time rehearsing with Ringo and all this happened. So Ringo calls up his friend Tom Petty and says, tom, we replaced Steven. And even though it's a complete different guy, it's still cool and groovy. So we had to do it over the ISDN line, meaning we recorded Tom Petty from California while I was in London. So I book Abbey Road, of course. And then Ringo, during rehearsal, says to me in the band, he goes, you know, well, if you go to Studio 2, here's what you also do. Go down the steps and go over to the corner. And he started saying where the Beatles recorded. He goes in. In the far corner on the right. He goes, you know, it's a huge studio, but we did most of our work in this little corner. And then there's. He started describing this, an exit sign. He goes, open those big doors and go in there and start yelling the stuff from Yellow Submarine. It will sound just like it, because that's where we did it. So he's saying all this great stuff, you know, I'm tattooing this all over my heart. And we go there and we're sitting in that room. It's just the vibe of it is incredible. It's completely unchanged. The little harmonium organ is there and the upright piano, like stuff that they played. Everyone played all of it. You know, I was doing them all, name it. I go, lady, me, I was doing a sexist every song. I could get it before they kicked me out, just to get the vibe. And so I went over to that corner and I just kind of sat there and hung out there because I do believe in aura and energy and all that sort of stuff. And I was sitting there and I looked in the corner. Now, the whole floor of Abbey Road is these little planks, these little wooden, like hardwood floor. But it's not like long bricks of floor. Each piece is roughly around maybe an 8 inch plank, 8 inch by just like 2 inches. It's the thin hardwood floor, 8 inch by 2 inches. And there in the corner you could see what they'd done now. They'd ripped up some of the floor so they could like cut a hole in the wall to put new tie lines and cords and all that sort of crap so they could like record from one room to another. So they ripped the floor up and just had cords going through. And I look in the corner and go, oh, my God. And it's in that corner. I just thought, dear me, I gotta get a piece of this. And I thought to myself, I've never stolen anything in my life, but there it was. My whole thing is, I've never bought a piece of art that I've sold. I've sold one guitar in my life because I had to eat. Outside of that, every painting that I've ever gotten or anything. I believe that art is to be passed on, not to be necessarily sold on unless completely necessary. So to me, I'm thinking this is not going to end up in Sotheby's ever. They're going to throw it out. It's a piece of wood. But to me, that's where Ringo's drums were. That's where John's Beetle boots were. Wow.
- [15:15]
Terry O'Reilly
So now that tiny piece of the Abbey Road flooring now hangs proudly on Mark's wall.
- [15:21]
Mark Hudson
Oh, yeah. I mean, it's been now been framed. And the weird thing was, is, you know, my own guilt. I thought to myself that when we left, I looked at some members in the band and I said, gosh, I think I'm having asthma, My heart beating fast. And I took one of the guy back and put his hand on my heart, but it was the wood and he looked at me like he didn't know. So we get into the cab and I went, look what I did. And I showed him this little piece of wood and they went, you bastard, aren't you going to give us a sliver? And then all of a sudden guy says, well, I have a confession. He took a screw from the crew, you know, like a little bolt, like each guy started pulling out. I have some corrugated cardboard, you know, if you were to look at this and just put it on the table, people would think that we were crazy. Now the only difference is, is I had to make my amends, at least with a beetle. So I called up Ringo and said, ringo, forgive me for I have sinned. He goes, oh, what's the matter? What have you done? And I just said, after you told us where to go, I said, there was a piece of wood there. He goes, good, I'll sign it. And that one happened. It was sort of like I got the blessing, you know, it kind of took the badness off of it.
- [16:23]
Terry O'Reilly
That signed piece of parquet flooring isn't the only valuable piece of Beatles memorabilia in the Hudson household.
- [16:29]
Mark Hudson
Yes, I have other stuff. I have a Conte Abbey Road with three remaining Beatles signing it. It was all done in separate times. When I was at Paul's house, he did it in Ringo's and I'd had from a long time ago. And George, when he was doing music for it's kind of weird. Never in my life did I figure that I would seen them in concert did I ever think that I would ever meet them or even know them. And during John's last weekend, I really.
- [16:52]
Terry O'Reilly
Got to know him, by the way, When Lennon was separated from Yoko in the early 70s, he was dating May Pang and spending a lot of time in Los Angeles. He always referred to that period as his Lost Weekend, which was a play off the 1945 movie Lost Weekend starring Ray Milland, where Milan's character goes through a four day drinking binge. Mark was also with John Lennon. The infamous night when a tipsy Lennon was thrown out of the Troubadour club for heckling the Smothers Brothers.
- [17:26]
Mark Hudson
John was the first Beatle that my brothers and I got to hang out with him. And we had just signed to Elton John's Rocket record. Bernie Toppin was producing and John was real friends with Elton. And at that point the Beatles had broken up. It was on 1972 and I was at this party at Rocket Records and someone said, john Lennon, there's a beetle upstairs. And everyone in LA was being kind of cool, like, oh, you know they've broken up. Oh, there's a beetle. They're all trying to like be in their wine glasses with their cigarette holders. And I went crazy, ran upstairs and said, you don't understand something, you're the walrus. But not really I am. And because of you, I did this. And he's like looking at me like I was out of my mind. And he started laughing. He goes, come on, sit down, let's have a chat. And then I started talking to him. Then Elton came and he took a picture of the three of us with me in the middle. And as we were posing, I said, something's very wrong with this picture. And they both looked at me. I said, yeah, I know, it's me. John Lennon on one side, Elton John on the other. So the only thing wrong with the photograph is the fact that I was in it. But then because of that, it was sort of weird with Harry Nielsen, who my brothers and I knew. And we'd already recorded a Harry Nielsen song in 1969. And we kind of started hanging out at the Troubadour and we started doing all that sort of stuff and it was a wild time. But, you know, John was very sad then. Wasn't like he was, you know, finding his own manhood. He was in love with his wife and got booted out, probably rightfully so. And he wanted to go home. So therefore he was drinking a bit much and being a bit rowdy. It was just because he was sad. And he would say that. I'll never forget the one time Elton took us to a disco and we're sitting down there and all of a Sudden the song comes on. We're sitting at the table and everyone's drinking and John is doodling on this napkin. I looked at him, they went, oh, God, just say to Mark, love John. You know. But at that point in his life, it was weird. He needed friends more than he needed fans. So I let that one go. And it's always sort of been this bittersweet thing. That's the one signature I didn't get. And even though I knew him and all that sort of stuff, but I think at that point it would have destroyed the way that he liked my brothers and I like when we ended up doing our Saturday morning show from Toronto.
- [19:24]
Terry O'Reilly
Yep, the very popular Hudson's Brothers Razzle Dazzle show was produced in Toronto and ran on Saturday mornings from 1974-75.
- [19:34]
Mark Hudson
It's the Hudson Brothers Razzle Dazzle show starring Bill, Mark and Brett, the Hudson Brothers.
- [19:44]
Terry O'Reilly
Long before that, the brothers had been discovered by a promoter who had a contract with Chrysler. He got them a recording contract and named the band the New Yorkers, after the Chrysler automobile. The brothers released a single as the New Yorkers that reached number 30 on the charts. With the success of that record, they became an opening act for bands like the who, the Supremes in Herman's Hermits. That led to a guest spot on the popular Sonny and Cher Comedy Hour in 1974. The producers of the Sonny and Cher show were Canadians Chris Beard and Alan Bly, both of which had honed their skills at cbc. They thought the Hudson brothers were very funny on stage and asked them if they were interested in doing a TV show. The brothers said no, they were a rock and roll band. Beard offered them $5,000 a week and the brothers said, where do we sign? We love television. The Hudson Brothers show began as a summer replacement for Sonny and cher, running for five weeks in 1974. It was so popular the brothers became teen idols, gracing the COVID of magazines like Tiger Beat. They released several records and had four hits, the biggest of which was so youo Are a Star. That wild success led to their own Saturday morning comedy program, the Hudson Brothers Razzle Dazzle Show.
- [21:15]
Mark Hudson
And here they are, the Hudson Brothers.
- [21:18]
Terry O'Reilly
As I mentioned, it was filmed in Toronto and that's why it co starred Canadians like Billy Vann and Murray Langston. We're gonna razzle dazzle you.
- [21:29]
Mark Hudson
You'll never believe. Did the show at CFTO in Toronto and John became a fan of it. Now this is later on, like 1974, and we saw him at the Grammys in 75 or whatever. And he used to call us the kings of Saturday morning. I come on, hey, all the kings of Saturday morning Let's have a watch. And we were sitting down in this disco, so to back up. And all of a sudden this song comes on. When will I see you again? Are we in love or just friends? Is this the beginning? But yeah, when will I see you again? And John went, this is my favorite song ever. Like you couldn't believe you have all the Beatles. Being hearing a Beatles say that was shocking. And he said, you know, John Hudson, let's go have a dance. And he'd get up and the three of my brothers, I would go and we'd like dance on a dance floor. And he had that great sense of fun, even though he was saddened by his situation. And the cool part about it is, it's like, because they truly were, I could say Elvis to some extent, but the Beatles truly were my inspiration. You know, when I started out as a drummer, I only can play like Ringo. The last time we were together to do the Letterman show. And there were two drum sets there because we did. Back off, boogaloo. He goes, come on, let's see what you've got. And I sat down, I said, look, you're only going to hear yourself. And it was so cool. There I was, you know, and this is one of these things that I hold so true to my heart. And I go, I know every drum lick. And he goes, no, you don't. I go, I know every drum lick. He goes, you don't know me about. And I said, okay, play one. And he went. I said, it's beginning to glass onion. And he kind of looked at me real quick. I said, oh, please, a little help for my friends. He looked at me again and then he went, like I said, that's the end of rain. And he looked at me and said, all right. And he took his drumsticks and he signed them and gave them to me and said, here, just don't let him show up on Sotheby's. And they get very offended about stuff that belonged to them.
- [23:21]
Terry O'Reilly
A lot of Beatles owned merchandise shows up on auction sites to this day. And if you've ever wondered how it gets there, Ringo has a story.
- [23:31]
Mark Hudson
One time, Ringo was watching some show or something and he told the story that he looked at the Sotheby's auction and he saw his pants. And he called up and said, excuse me, would you like to make a bid? He goes, no, those are my pants. No, no, they're at auction. Now he goes, no, no, you don't understand. Those are my pants. Yeah, I want my pants. And to him, those were a pair of his pants that these guys like, took from him. He also said one of the early Beatle drum covers that said the Beatles, when they actually had the antennas coming out of it, showed up at auction.
- [24:00]
Terry O'Reilly
The earliest logo of the Beatles on Ringo's bass drum wasn't the famous drop T logo, but rather it had the words the Beatles with two insect antenna popping out of the B in Beatles to play off the inspiration for the band's name, which was Buddy Hollywood and the Crickets.
- [24:20]
Mark Hudson
And he goes, you know, I never gave that to anyone. And the thing is what everybody does now is they all say John gave it to him because then there's no way Trace passed away. So they have this sort of thing about that, and probably rightfully so.
- [24:36]
Terry O'Reilly
And we'll be right back.
- [24:43]
Unknown
Oh my God, it's the coolest thing ever. Hey guys, have you heard of Goldbelly? Well, check this out. It's this amazing where they ship the most iconic famous foods from restaurants across the country, anywhere nationwide. I've never found a more perfect gift than food. They ship Chicago deep dish pizza, New York bagels, Maine lobster rolls, and even Ina Garten's famous cakes. Seriously. So if you're looking for a gift for the food lover in your life, head to goldbelly.com and get 20% off your first order with promo code GIFT.
- [25:14]
Mark Hudson
My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career.
- [25:18]
Unknown
Day and said he was a big roas man.
- [25:20]
Mark Hudson
Then he told everyone how much he.
- [25:22]
Unknown
Loved calculating his return on ad spend.
- [25:25]
Mark Hudson
My friends still laugh at me to this day.
- [25:28]
Unknown
Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn you'll be able to reach people who do. Get a $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to LinkedIn.com results to claim your credit. That's LinkedIn.com results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn the place to be to be.
- [25:44]
Did you know that two out of three listeners say podcasts are the best way to learn about the things they care about most? That makes podcasts the perfect place to introduce your brand, where ads are more relevant and trusted than any other media channel. Want to learn more? Download the full podcast pulse 2024. Report now at podcastpulse2024.acast.com and see how you can make your brand part of the conversation. Trivia Question who was the last Beatle.
- [26:21]
To score a number one Solo hit.
- [26:24]
Mark Hudson
Answer after this Answer. John Lennon was the last Beatle to score a number one solo hit with Whatever Gets you Through the night in 1974. By that time, Paul had three number ones and George and Ringo each had two.
- [27:01]
Terry O'Reilly
Because Mark Hudson has such an interesting Beatles collection, we asked him what his most prized Beatle collectible was.
- [27:08]
Mark Hudson
There's actually a couple of things. The Abbey Road thing is a lot to me because it was so personalized. Like Paul actually, the note that he wrote was because of the music that I had done. And that was like, really, really cherished to me. I have a lithograph of the lyrics to Revolution. There's a few things. In fact, Bob Gruen, the guy who took all the pictures of John, he actually did an art show that I got invited to in Washington D.C. and I got the infamous John on the grass at the Statue of Liberty, giving the peace sign. But it's the original, not a copy. It's like he took it to one hour photo and I got it, but it's big. Ringo sends me faxes all the time of cartoons. And it's just like that. Like that almost means as much to me as other prized possessions in the album. There's this huge piece of artwork, this big poster with all these little squares with all these colors and everybody's picture on it. But, you know, the biggest joy for me was, you know, I produced a Beatle. Give me a break. In fact, on this storyteller's record, I'm on the COVID.
- [28:11]
Terry O'Reilly
The Ringo Starr Storytellers act was recorded for the VH1 Storytellers TV series, where artists perform live in an intimate setting and tell the stories behind their hits. Ringo and Mark recorded that album in 1998.
- [28:27]
Mark Hudson
You see Ringo and you see with me, there I am. And sometimes when I look at that, I go back and think to myself, when I was this young guy starting out, pretending I was John, would I ever think that I would be turning around and my drummer would be Ringo?
- [28:45]
Terry O'Reilly
While Mark loved working with Ringo, it was another Beatle who originally influenced him.
- [28:52]
Mark Hudson
John John was the most inspirational. I mean, I loved them all. But I think John had a thing to him where there was sort of like angst. He had humor. He really was rock and rolling. But then again, you know, with Paul, I love the melodic I hear breaking each day of the year changing my. By the way, I can imitate. He was so cool. Ringo would come back and hear the background and say, I don't need the yellows, I've got you. And Only because, you know, I broke them down. I said to Ringo that I probably know their music better than they do. I could break it down and say, when you did this on that. And they said they really don't remember because they were just playing.
- [29:26]
Terry O'Reilly
Can I ask you something, Mark? Just on that very subject, you were saying that, you know, how the Beatles. That was their lives. So the memorabilia is probably not that important to them because that was just them doing their thing. Did you notice when you were at Ringo's house or at Paul's studio, is there any collectibles hanging around that were meaningful to them?
- [29:41]
Mark Hudson
Ringo has a Sgt. Pepper outfit and he has his first gold record. And they all do. It's like, you don't want to work with Paul and stuff. He goes like, you know, the coolest thing, we sang this song and here I am. And I'd always pretend that my brother Brett was Paul and I was John. And this time I'm singing background, oh, I'm doing the lower Lenin part. And I look over and 15 inches away from me is Paul. You know what I mean? It's just like surreal to me. And this one time in song La de Da before the guitar solo, we were doing this and Paul went up to the microphone to do one of those McCartney sort of ad lib, you know, goes, do, do do do. He walked up to the mic and I don't know what it was, God or the spirit of John came through me. And at the same time, I sang the exact same harmony part underneath him. And he actually, like stopped and like looked at me. They stopped taping. We had to take a break. He had this look on his face. It was like, well, and I don't know what it was. It just like he walked up to do this ad lib and I ad libbed underneath him as if we were in the same band for 20 years, which in one way we probably were, because that's how I felt, or we all felt.
- [30:50]
Terry O'Reilly
When Mark was working at Paul McCartney Studio in England, he took Mark on a little tour.
- [30:56]
Mark Hudson
It was so weird because when you watch the dynamic of them in the room together, it was like, you say it was like Hard Day's Night with Crow's Feet. Because their relationship is still the same. They were still like, hey. We sang the song and Paul kind of looked at Ringo and said, you know, Rich, it's kind of beetleish. And Ringo got insecure, goes, I know. I told Mark it was kind of beetle ish. And then Paul stopped him and goes, yeah, but you're a freaking beetle. And everybody starts laughing. And then Paul looks at me, goes, you're a beetle freak, aren't you, man? I went, yeah. He goes, come on, I'll give you the private tour. Take me out in this studio. He goes, here, let's tune up. And he gives me John's acoustic Gibson and he puts on his Hoffner. And I'm just thinking to myself, please, someone take a picture, please. And then he goes, here's the Mellotron. We walk over to the Mellotron and he plays the beginning to Strawberry Field. And we sang a bit of it together. And then he goes over and goes. And he has the Tubular Bells that were on Penny Lane.
- [31:47]
Terry O'Reilly
And he started.
- [31:47]
Mark Hudson
And he goes, and this is the harpsichord that was on because. And in my life. Then you look at some stuff on the wall. There's like an early Beatle picture. That's my favorite one. It was an earlier photograph, I would probably think it was around the 65. Violet judged them by their hair. It looked like the Help period. And that was probably just pre Revolver, when they really started getting so musical. It was frightening. There's stuff around, like an odd tapestry on the wall. He goes, I had that one in my apartment in London. They have stuff like that that's around. Ringo has, like, the first German record. You know, the German version. They've got odd stuff. But, you know, it's weird because I've worked with so many acts now, from Aerosmith, Bon Jovi to Celine Dion. You can see that so many other people have so much of themselves around them. And you know what the cool thing is, and no one really believes this, is that they really were just four guys in a rock and roll band. And even though they were the biggest thing ever, they still sort of have that mentality, very grounded, very sort of like we just were guys in a van playing our music. You think about how they changed the world. I've seen a lot of other guys that have had a lot more attitude, that have sold a lot less records.
- [33:01]
Terry O'Reilly
For Ringo's Vertical man album, which Mark produced, he chose to record it in his small studio with all the musicians standing shoulder to shoulder, mirroring the way the Beatles used to record, standing close together, squeezed into a corner of Studio 2 at Abbey Road.
- [33:20]
Mark Hudson
And the whole thing was working with Ringos over the whole period, making the record, because we made it in my office to this little room, he brings the original symbols. There's a cymbal and a hi hat that was on all the Beatle records. That he brings and he plays and when he plays as a record and you see like little marks that George had written something. There's a thing there with George Martin and put something, you know, where they've done stuff like play it here, do it there, hit it here. And Paul wrote something to him. Love you Rich. And just like a band would do.
- [33:47]
Terry O'Reilly
On Vertical Man, Ringo does a cover version of Love Me Do. He has an odd history with that first Beatles single. When the Beatles recorded the song Originally in 1962, George Martin didn't like Ringo's drumming so he brought in a session drummer instead. And Ringo wasn't happy about it.
- [34:09]
Mark Hudson
Ringo said he was crushed. In those days it wasn't about lawyers and none of us knew about lawyers and publishing and that we had this piece of vinyl that to us was like what we had dreamed of all of our lives. And that to him was a big thing. And there he is saying that he couldn't play on it. Just joined the band that he loved, you know, he always said that, even when he was with Rory and stuff. He goes in Hamburg, he goes, I'd always go watch the Beatles because I loved them. And that's really what it was.
- [34:34]
Terry O'Reilly
So it was interesting that Ringo chose to re record Love Me Do.
- [34:41]
Mark Hudson
It was actually Ringo's idea. It was the one Beatles song he didn't get to play on. I mean, he played on the album version, but not on the single. And he said, bach, what do you think about us doing Love Me Do? And I thought he was joking and I went, really? And he went, yeah, it's the one song I never got to play on. He goes, you know, now I'll show the bastards. And I said, well, yeah, he goes. Then he said, I kind of want to do it like this. And he sat down at the drum and started playing that beat. And then we fell and I got my Hoffner bass and we fell into place. And then I called up Steven Tyler, who was in Amsterdam at the time, and they said, hey, Steven, we're recutting Love Me Do. And he went, oh, that's great. They said, you want to come and play the harmonica? He goes, when? Friday. He got on a plane and flew to. And the cool thing is there's a couple jam sessions that I actually possess now where we did come together. We did a version of youf can't do that with him singing it and a great one of what Goes on. What Goes on am I. But a lot of that, once again, that's just my collection But I'm very proud of the record. It was a big thing for me. You know, I wanted to surround him. He's a Beatle, and I thought that some of the records he was making later sort of got away from what he was. This was all done with him sitting in a room playing the drums with three guys. And that's where he felt the most comfortable.
- [35:58]
Terry O'Reilly
There were a lot of superstars who sang on Ringo's Vertical man record. And Mark tells us they were all huge, huge Beatles fans.
- [36:07]
Mark Hudson
I mean, there wasn't anyone, because everyone came to my studio to work. Alanis was there. In fact, she loved it so much she wanted to come back. And she came back and sang on two other songs. And everyone wanted a picture behind his drums. I started charging $5.
- [36:19]
Terry O'Reilly
Go sit there.
- [36:20]
Mark Hudson
Because there was that. That Pearl, the black and white Pearl kit just was sitting there. And like, I swear to God, everybody that was there said, do you mind taking a picture? And there's Brian Wilson, there's Alanis behind it, and there's Steven Tyler and Scott Whelan from Stone Temple Pilots. I mean, everybody wanted to sit behind this kit. And it was kind of cute because when Brian Wilson came and sang, he goes, ringo, I love this song. Can I get a copy? And Ringo was very protective, went, no, I'll send you one, but I'll give you this instead. And he signed everyone who wouldn't listen. Most of the people that are huge, you know, Steven Tyler is a Beatle freak. They all are. And most of them don't admit it. They're lying.
- [36:57]
Terry O'Reilly
As they say, there are rock stars and then there are the Beatles. We asked Mark if Ringo was aware of the effect he has on a room.
- [37:07]
Mark Hudson
You know, it's weird, because in one way he does, and then it's like he knows he's a beetle. And when we went to the record store one time, he goes, come on, let's go get a code across the street, because there's a huge record store across the street from my studio. Let's go get a plug. And he knew that when he walked in there, it was like one of those bad commercials when everything stopped. It was virtually like a pin could drop. And then he just was, like, swamped. And then there's other times when we got into a van, he goes, oh, this is great. Remember when we used to lay in the van and we had to stack on top of each other so that we could stay warm? And he started telling all these stories, and he would forget the fact that he was this thing. I don't know who I was sitting down with, was writing, you know, because I also songwriting. I was either writing with a new artist. It might have been Bon Jovi or someone. I'm sitting in my studio playing. Often the phone rings and I don't get it. When I'm in the middle of, like, writing a middle eight. And all of a sudden I hear this voice. Hello. Hello. Peace, Love. Peace, love. Hello, Mark, It's Ring calling from London. We give me a call, yeah, Bastard. And he starts doing his jokes and like a beetle on my answering machine. So, you know, hello, Mark, we're having a little suare, and if you'd like to come with your girlfriend Barbara, come over, you bastard. You get a beetle on my answering machine. One time during the Christmas time when we were doing Love Me Do, I actually used him as my outgoing message. I save stuff because I do. So I have the answering machines of him going, you know, Mark, I just want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for making the record of me. Never in my life would I even imagine that. And he loved sitting in a room with four guys and playing. And that's really how we did it. He would always say, you know, the biggest compliment. One time he said that he thought that I played acoustic guitar like John. He goes, you have no sense of time, but you play like it's your last day on the planet. And he goes, that's really, really cool. And I think that he said, you know, when we did the White Album, he goes, sometimes we did stuff like youe Blues and Helter Skelter was cut in a little space, just like what we did.
- [38:54]
Terry O'Reilly
Speaking of great albums, we were curious to know what Mark's favorite Beatle album was.
- [39:00]
Mark Hudson
That's such a tough call for me because, you know, it's weird because I always refer to Revolver, because I think that was the first one when they really started, like, keeping an eye on the world going by my window I'm only sleeping and it just packs, man. And here, there and everywhere, it just became this, like, such a huge jump for me. But then again, you know, then all of a sudden I'll be sitting there going, wow, I think that was my favorite. And I go reversal with Norwegian Wood and all the acoustic guitars and it's only Love. And that is all. Give me a break. But, you know, it's so weird. I love the White Album because I think the White Album, to me, really shows them as a songwriting band. It sort of just sat there and could go from Helter Skelter to Good Night or Honey Pie to Savoy Truffle, that, to me, they sounded more like a band band where the polish wasn't really on. But then again, you know, Jeff Emmerich, who mixed the Ring record, they played me version of sergeant Pepper. That blew me away. That stands up to anything I've ever heard. Present day. Sonically, it was that good, you know, it just blows your mind.
- [40:06]
Terry O'Reilly
Mark became a very in demand songwriter and producer, working, as he said, with artists like Aerosmith, Bon Jovi, Alanis Morissette and Celine Dion, to name a few. But it wasn't always that way.
- [40:19]
Mark Hudson
I spent a lot of my life with nobody calling me. Then when I wrote Living on the Edge and you win a Grammy, you become a genius in your own pants.
- [40:25]
Terry O'Reilly
Living on the Edge won a Grammy for Aerosmith in 1993.
- [40:29]
Mark Hudson
You know, the Hudson Brothers sort of became a negative because we did television, and at that point, television ruined your musical career.
- [40:36]
Terry O'Reilly
In an interview, Mark's brother Brett said that because the Hudson brothers were so funny on tv, people stopped taking their music seriously, even though they were serious musicians. The humor got in the way of the music.
- [40:51]
Mark Hudson
It was a great experience because it was fun. It was the 70s, and I mean before disco, so it still had that rock and roll big thing to it. We were on television, we were a family. So therefore we were a bit more grounded than a lot of other bands. It's tough to break up a family. I look back at it really as fun. It was musically frustrating because I thought we were doing really, really good music that no one listened to because the comedy got in the way of what we were doing musically. And I think that that was sort of an unfortunate that I kind of look back at, but I sort of made up for lost time now. So it was one of those things where I never quit. And because I didn't quit, it seems to be paying off. And now, finally, in my life, if nothing else, I have beetle credibility. You know, all my friends say to me, well, Mark, now you've done it, your whole career can be over with and you can, like, die a happy man. And so, you know, with that, I'm not going to stop. I still love doing what I'm doing. That's the cool part.
- [41:53]
Terry O'Reilly
Years later, I was on a flight from Los Angeles, flying back to Toronto and found myself sitting across from Mark Hudson. He was flying to Toronto to be a guest at the Canadian Music Week event. We had a nice long chat. It was nice to see him in person. He was still producing Ringo's records at the time and would eventually go on to produce a total of nine albums and over 80 songs with Ringo. He and Ringo even had a record label together for a couple of years. Recently, I was reading that the Hudson Brothers were in the early stages of planning a reunion show. This time, they say, the humor won't get in the way. I'm Terry O'Reilly. This special bonus episode was recorded in the Tearstream Mobile recording studio. Director Callie O'Reilly Producer Debbie O'Reilly Chief Sound Engineer Jeff Devine tunes provided by APM Music. Follow me on Social at terryoinfluence. This podcast is powered by Acast and stay tuned for more Beatles interviews coming up.
- [43:18]
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