Podcast Summary: Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly

Episode: When You’ve Got It, Flaunt It: The George Lois Story
Host: Terry O’Reilly
Date: August 16, 2025

Overview

This episode explores the extraordinary life and career of George Lois, the audacious advertising icon whose larger-than-life personality and "good madness" revolutionized Madison Avenue. Terry O’Reilly traces Lois’s Greek heritage, his fierce creative spirit, and his fearless approach to both life and advertising. Through colorful anecdotes, O’Reilly shows how Lois's “flaunt it” philosophy shook up the conservative ad industry—and how his bold ideas transcended marketing to influence pop culture, politics, and even social justice.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Zorba Parallel: The Need for Creative Madness

• Opening Analogy (03:22): O’Reilly begins with a retelling of "Zorba the Greek", using the film's theme as a metaphor for creative living and risk-taking.
  • “Damn it, boss. I like it too much not to say it. You’ve got everything except one thing. Madness. A man needs a little madness or else he never dares cut the rope and be free.” (Terry O’Reilly quoting Zorba, 06:42)
• He introduces George Lois as the ad industry’s Zorba: loud, fearless, and disruptive at a time when Madison Avenue was “uptight, gray and boring”.

2. Formative Years: Fighting for Identity and Creativity

• Lois’s Youth (07:17):
  • Born in 1931 to Greek immigrants, raised in a tough Irish section of the Bronx.
  • Learned to fight—literally and metaphorically—because he was different.
  • Chose art over the family flower shop; left Pratt Institute to work in graphic design.
• First Lessons in Standing Up (08:46):
  • At CBS, under the legendary Bill Golden, Lois witnessed how you must “fight to sell good work.”
• Lois’s Approach to Ad Agency Work (11:13):
  • Early job at Lenin & Newell ended with Lois tipping the VP’s desk after a disrespectful meeting—a glimpse into his uncompromising spirit.

3. Creative Revolution: Working with the Greats

• Joining DDB (11:43):
  • Wrote to Bill Bernbach at Doyle Dane Bernbach (DDB), who fostered creative partnerships and respected art direction.
  • DDB’s culture of pairing writers and art directors empowered mavericks like Lois.

4. Breaking the Mold: Bold Stunts and Legendary Campaigns

• The Goodman's Matzos Story (14:51):

  • Lois insisted on pitching directly to the client. When his ad was rejected, he staged a mock-suicide by climbing out onto the window ledge and yelling, “You make the matzah, I'll make the ads!” (Terry O’Reilly as Lois, 16:13)
  • The client relented; the poster ran.

• Herald Tribune Campaign (17:13):

  • Ran TV ads that directly challenged CBS News’ coverage, resulting in a circulation jump for the Tribune and a furious response from CBS.

• Robert Kennedy Senate Campaign (18:23):

  • Combated "carpetbagger" perceptions with the slogan, “Let’s put Robert Kennedy to work for New York.”
  • Persuaded RFK to roll up his sleeves in photos—a symbol of hard work, now iconic.
  • “Rolled up sleeves were the symbol of a man hard at work. Look at almost any photo of Robert Kennedy from that period. His sleeves are rolled up in almost all of them.” (Terry O’Reilly, 19:00)

• Xerox 914 Campaign (20:27):

  • Demonstrated the copier’s ease by having a child—and later, a chimpanzee—operate it in front of skeptical FCC officials, winning national attention.
  • “You could impress clients with your work, but you can also impress them with your hustle and desire.” (Terry O’Reilly, 19:52)

5. Esquire Covers: Audacity as Art

• Audacious Design (24:40):
  • Lois designed 92 iconic covers over 10 years, fusing pop art with social critique.
  • Memorable covers:
    • Sonny Liston as a black Santa Claus (Civil Rights statement; cost Esquire $750,000 in lost ads)
    • Andy Warhol drowning in Campbell’s soup (Commentary on art and commerce)
    • Muhammad Ali posed as Saint Sebastian (Race, religion, and war conflated in one image)
  • “The New York Times called his covers: ‘an acid rain critique on society, race, politics and war.’” (Terry O’Reilly, 26:38)

6. Selling Out vs. Sticking to Principle

• Growing and Leaving PKL (27:00):
  • As his first agency grew complacent, Lois walked away—even from success—to preserve his creative energy.
• Braniff Airlines “When You’ve Got It, Flaunt It” (28:35):
  • The slogan became a national catchphrase, going beyond just selling tickets.
• Social Justice Stance (29:35):
  • Lois refused to drop support for boxer Rubin “Hurricane” Carter, wrongly imprisoned, even when it cost his agency a $5 million account.
  • “He absolutely refused. The $5 million account walked out the door that day.” (Terry O’Reilly, 29:56)

7. Changing the Culture: The MTV Miracle

• MTV’s Launch (30:11):
  • With the cable channel failing, Lois created the "I want my MTV" campaign, enlisting Mick Jagger—pro bono—for a TV spot.
  • The campaign triggered a flood of calls and made MTV a must-buy for advertisers and record labels.
  • “Every time the ad aired, cable operators were flooded with calls from people saying, ‘I want my MTV.’ Within months, MTV was in 80% of households.” (Terry O’Reilly, 31:37)

8. Legacy: Lessons on Creativity and Courage

• A Personal Encounter (32:45):
  • O’Reilly recalls seeing Lois speak, struck by his tough, no-nonsense delivery.
  • Lois’s mantra:
    • “If you’re not willing to fight for your ideas, get the hell out of the business.”
    • “You can be cautious, or you can be creative, but you could never be a cautious creative.” (Terry O’Reilly quoting Lois, 33:08)
• Enduring Impact (33:16):
  • Lois’s slogans and visuals became embedded in culture; 32 Esquire covers are held by MoMA.
  • He never compromised on creativity, even at personal or financial cost.
  • “You’ll never find big ideas in a safe place. You’ll only find them out on the ledge when you’re under the influence.” (Terry O’Reilly, 33:28)

Notable Quotes

• “You could never be a cautious creative.” – George Lois (quoted by Terry O’Reilly, 33:08)
• “You make the matzah, I’ll make the ads!” – George Lois (as recounted by Terry O’Reilly, 16:13)
• “You can impress clients with your work, but you can also impress them with your hustle and desire.” – Terry O’Reilly, 19:52
• “Every time the ad aired, cable operators were flooded with calls from people saying, ‘I want my MTV.’” – Terry O’Reilly, 31:37
• “You’ll never find big ideas in a safe place. You’ll only find them out on the ledge when you’re under the influence.” – Terry O’Reilly, 33:28

Important Timestamps

• 03:22 – Zorba the Greek analogy introduces the “good madness” theme
• 07:17 – Lois’s upbringing and early struggles
• 11:43 – Moving to DDB and the creative revolution in advertising
• 14:51 – Goodman's Matzos pitch and the window ledge incident
• 18:23 – RFK Senate campaign and the invention of an enduring stylistic trope
• 20:27 – Xerox 914 campaign, chimpanzee demonstration
• 24:40 – Esquire covers and their cultural impact
• 28:35 – Braniff Airlines “When You’ve Got It, Flaunt It”
• 29:35 – Rubin "Hurricane" Carter and standing by principles
• 30:11 – Saving MTV with the “I want my MTV” campaign
• 32:45 – O’Reilly’s personal story of hearing Lois speak and Lois’s creative philosophy

Memorable Moments

• Lois climbing onto a client’s window ledge to win approval for a matzos poster (16:13)
• Turning a national marketing challenge (Xerox ad skepticism) into a playful yet decisive moment with a live chimpanzee (21:54)
• Convincing Mick Jagger to appear in the MTV ad campaign for free (30:46)
• Flatly refusing to disavow Rubin Carter, sacrificing a major account rather than his ethics (29:56)
• O’Reilly’s reflection on “fighting for your ideas” and creative battle scars (32:45)

Episode Takeaway

George Lois embodied the spirit of creative rebellion. He took risks, fought for what he believed in, broke the rules of the advertising establishment—often quite literally—and in doing so, left an indelible mark on the industry and culture at large. The episode ends with a call to action for all creatives: “You’ll never find big ideas in a safe place. You’ll only find them out on the ledge when you’re under the influence.”