When You've Got It, Flaunt It: The George Lois Story

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly

Episode: When You’ve Got It, Flaunt It: The George Lois Story
Host: Terry O’Reilly
Date: August 16, 2025

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Overview

This episode explores the extraordinary life and career of George Lois, the audacious advertising icon whose larger-than-life personality and "good madness" revolutionized Madison Avenue. Terry O’Reilly traces Lois’s Greek heritage, his fierce creative spirit, and his fearless approach to both life and advertising. Through colorful anecdotes, O’Reilly shows how Lois's “flaunt it” philosophy shook up the conservative ad industry—and how his bold ideas transcended marketing to influence pop culture, politics, and even social justice.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Zorba Parallel: The Need for Creative Madness

• Opening Analogy (03:22): O’Reilly begins with a retelling of "Zorba the Greek", using the film's theme as a metaphor for creative living and risk-taking.
  • “Damn it, boss. I like it too much not to say it. You’ve got everything except one thing. Madness. A man needs a little madness or else he never dares cut the rope and be free.” (Terry O’Reilly quoting Zorba, 06:42)
• He introduces George Lois as the ad industry’s Zorba: loud, fearless, and disruptive at a time when Madison Avenue was “uptight, gray and boring”.

2. Formative Years: Fighting for Identity and Creativity

• Lois’s Youth (07:17):
  • Born in 1931 to Greek immigrants, raised in a tough Irish section of the Bronx.
  • Learned to fight—literally and metaphorically—because he was different.
  • Chose art over the family flower shop; left Pratt Institute to work in graphic design.
• First Lessons in Standing Up (08:46):
  • At CBS, under the legendary Bill Golden, Lois witnessed how you must “fight to sell good work.”
• Lois’s Approach to Ad Agency Work (11:13):
  • Early job at Lenin & Newell ended with Lois tipping the VP’s desk after a disrespectful meeting—a glimpse into his uncompromising spirit.

3. Creative Revolution: Working with the Greats

• Joining DDB (11:43):
  • Wrote to Bill Bernbach at Doyle Dane Bernbach (DDB), who fostered creative partnerships and respected art direction.
  • DDB’s culture of pairing writers and art directors empowered mavericks like Lois.

4. Breaking the Mold: Bold Stunts and Legendary Campaigns

• The Goodman's Matzos Story (14:51):

  • Lois insisted on pitching directly to the client. When his ad was rejected, he staged a mock-suicide by climbing out onto the window ledge and yelling, “You make the matzah, I'll make the ads!” (Terry O’Reilly as Lois, 16:13)
  • The client relented; the poster ran.

• Herald Tribune Campaign (17:13):

  • Ran TV ads that directly challenged CBS News’ coverage, resulting in a circulation jump for the Tribune and a furious response from CBS.

• Robert Kennedy Senate Campaign (18:23):

  • Combated "carpetbagger" perceptions with the slogan, “Let’s put Robert Kennedy to work for New York.”
  • Persuaded RFK to roll up his sleeves in photos—a symbol of hard work, now iconic.
  • “Rolled up sleeves were the symbol of a man hard at work. Look at almost any photo of Robert Kennedy from that period. His sleeves are rolled up in almost all of them.” (Terry O’Reilly, 19:00)

• Xerox 914 Campaign (20:27):

  • Demonstrated the copier’s ease by having a child—and later, a chimpanzee—operate it in front of skeptical FCC officials, winning national attention.
  • “You could impress clients with your work, but you can also impress them with your hustle and desire.” (Terry O’Reilly, 19:52)

5. Esquire Covers: Audacity as Art

• Audacious Design (24:40):
  • Lois designed 92 iconic covers over 10 years, fusing pop art with social critique.
  • Memorable covers:
    • Sonny Liston as a black Santa Claus (Civil Rights statement; cost Esquire $750,000 in lost ads)
    • Andy Warhol drowning in Campbell’s soup (Commentary on art and commerce)
    • Muhammad Ali posed as Saint Sebastian (Race, religion, and war conflated in one image)
  • “The New York Times called his covers: ‘an acid rain critique on society, race, politics and war.’” (Terry O’Reilly, 26:38)

6. Selling Out vs. Sticking to Principle

• Growing and Leaving PKL (27:00):
  • As his first agency grew complacent, Lois walked away—even from success—to preserve his creative energy.
• Braniff Airlines “When You’ve Got It, Flaunt It” (28:35):
  • The slogan became a national catchphrase, going beyond just selling tickets.
• Social Justice Stance (29:35):
  • Lois refused to drop support for boxer Rubin “Hurricane” Carter, wrongly imprisoned, even when it cost his agency a $5 million account.
  • “He absolutely refused. The $5 million account walked out the door that day.” (Terry O’Reilly, 29:56)

7. Changing the Culture: The MTV Miracle

• MTV’s Launch (30:11):
  • With the cable channel failing, Lois created the "I want my MTV" campaign, enlisting Mick Jagger—pro bono—for a TV spot.
  • The campaign triggered a flood of calls and made MTV a must-buy for advertisers and record labels.
  • “Every time the ad aired, cable operators were flooded with calls from people saying, ‘I want my MTV.’ Within months, MTV was in 80% of households.” (Terry O’Reilly, 31:37)

8. Legacy: Lessons on Creativity and Courage

• A Personal Encounter (32:45):
  • O’Reilly recalls seeing Lois speak, struck by his tough, no-nonsense delivery.
  • Lois’s mantra:
    • “If you’re not willing to fight for your ideas, get the hell out of the business.”
    • “You can be cautious, or you can be creative, but you could never be a cautious creative.” (Terry O’Reilly quoting Lois, 33:08)
• Enduring Impact (33:16):
  • Lois’s slogans and visuals became embedded in culture; 32 Esquire covers are held by MoMA.
  • He never compromised on creativity, even at personal or financial cost.
  • “You’ll never find big ideas in a safe place. You’ll only find them out on the ledge when you’re under the influence.” (Terry O’Reilly, 33:28)

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Notable Quotes

• “You could never be a cautious creative.” – George Lois (quoted by Terry O’Reilly, 33:08)
• “You make the matzah, I’ll make the ads!” – George Lois (as recounted by Terry O’Reilly, 16:13)
• “You can impress clients with your work, but you can also impress them with your hustle and desire.” – Terry O’Reilly, 19:52
• “Every time the ad aired, cable operators were flooded with calls from people saying, ‘I want my MTV.’” – Terry O’Reilly, 31:37
• “You’ll never find big ideas in a safe place. You’ll only find them out on the ledge when you’re under the influence.” – Terry O’Reilly, 33:28

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Important Timestamps

• 03:22 – Zorba the Greek analogy introduces the “good madness” theme
• 07:17 – Lois’s upbringing and early struggles
• 11:43 – Moving to DDB and the creative revolution in advertising
• 14:51 – Goodman's Matzos pitch and the window ledge incident
• 18:23 – RFK Senate campaign and the invention of an enduring stylistic trope
• 20:27 – Xerox 914 campaign, chimpanzee demonstration
• 24:40 – Esquire covers and their cultural impact
• 28:35 – Braniff Airlines “When You’ve Got It, Flaunt It”
• 29:35 – Rubin "Hurricane" Carter and standing by principles
• 30:11 – Saving MTV with the “I want my MTV” campaign
• 32:45 – O’Reilly’s personal story of hearing Lois speak and Lois’s creative philosophy

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Memorable Moments

• Lois climbing onto a client’s window ledge to win approval for a matzos poster (16:13)
• Turning a national marketing challenge (Xerox ad skepticism) into a playful yet decisive moment with a live chimpanzee (21:54)
• Convincing Mick Jagger to appear in the MTV ad campaign for free (30:46)
• Flatly refusing to disavow Rubin Carter, sacrificing a major account rather than his ethics (29:56)
• O’Reilly’s reflection on “fighting for your ideas” and creative battle scars (32:45)

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Episode Takeaway

George Lois embodied the spirit of creative rebellion. He took risks, fought for what he believed in, broke the rules of the advertising establishment—often quite literally—and in doing so, left an indelible mark on the industry and culture at large. The episode ends with a call to action for all creatives: “You’ll never find big ideas in a safe place. You’ll only find them out on the ledge when you’re under the influence.”

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Transcript

[Terry O'Reilly]

Did you know that if you subscribe to our But Wait, There's More option you get a bonus story in every episode of under the Influence. But wait, there's more. For the price of a cup of coffee every month, you get early access so you hear every episode a full week before everybody else. Plus you enjoy that episode ad free. Tsk tsk. And by subscribing you support our podcast. Just go to Apple Podcasts and subscribe to under the Influences. But Wait, There's More.

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[Terry O'Reilly]

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You're under the influence with Terry O'Reilly.

[Terry O'Reilly]

Back in 1964, a movie titled Zorba the Greek hit theaters. The story was about two men. Basil is an Englishman. He is an unhappy writer who leads a dull, uptight existence and finds no joy in life. He always says and does what is expected of him and his life is predictable. His future is gray. He discovers he has been left an inheritance that includes a small decrepit coal mine in Greece. Basil decides to sail to Greece to try and reopen it. While on the ship, he meets Zorba. Zorba is a Greek bear of a man with an extraordinary zest for life. He possesses a wall shaking laugh and and big appetites. When he asks Basil what he does for a living, Basil tells him he is a writer. Zoraba looks at him and says, so you think too much. He tells Basil that he used to be a miner and can help him restore the mine. Even though Basil and Zorba are polar opposites, Basil accepts his offer and an unexpected friendship begins to grow. Actor Alan Bates was cast as the shy, introverted Basil. Anthony Quinn turns in a career defining performance as Zorba. Throughout the entire film, Zorba tries to pull Basil out of his shell, But Basil resists saying I don't want any trouble. Zorba grabs him by the collar and says, life is trouble. To be alive is to look for trouble. Basil prefers his solitary life of books. Zorba bites into life like he is devouring a sumptuous meal. But Basil slowly begins to realize that Zorba really holds the key to life. And that begins to rub off on Basil. Zorba takes the shy Basil under his arm and teaches him how to deal with life's ups and downs. When Zorba is happy, he dances with wild abandonment. He tells Basil he also dances when he's sad because it takes the pain away. Soon, Zorba comes up with an elaborate plan to try and save the mine. But when he executes it, it is a complete and utter disaster. Everything comes tumbling down. In the last scene of the movie, Zorba and Basil sit in the rubble of the failed attempt and share some food and wine. That's when Zorba the Greek imparts some advice to his friend. Damn it, boss. I like it too much not to say it. You've got everything except one thing. Madness. A man needs a little madness or else. Or else he never dares cut the rope and be free. Today I want to tell you a story about another famous Greek. He was a legend in the advertising business. He was a bear of a man. He was big and loud and fearless. At a time when Madison Avenue was uptight, gray and boring. He shook it by the collar. His name was George Lois and he had more than a little of that good madness Zorba was talking about.

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[Terry O'Reilly]

George Lois was born in New York in 1931. His parents had emigrated from Greece years earlier. His father ran a florist shop and young George would work in the store and make deliveries. Lois was raised in a very Irish area of the West Bronx. Being the only Greek family in the neighborhood, he was picked on a lot. So George, Lois learned to fight. He won some and he lost some. His nose got rearranged, but he never backed down. In school, a teacher noticed that Lois had a talent for drawing and encouraged him. Even though Lois was athletic and was offered a basketball scholarship in 1949, he chose to study graphic design at the Pratt Institute in Brooklyn instead. That was a big decision. Not between basketball and graphic design, but whether to break from the Greek tradition of staying in the family business. George's father expected him to become a florist and eventually take over the store. But art was in George's veins, not Gladiola's. In the middle of the second year at the Pratt Institute, two things happened. He met a woman he would stay married to for the rest of his life, and his teacher told him he should be working in advertising. He sent George to interview at a graphic design studio. They liked George's work and offered to hire him as an artist for $35 a week. So George decided to quit college and take the full time job. He couldn't believe he was being paid to create artwork. It was a dream come true, except for one problem. Quitting college meant he no longer qualified for a deferment and was immediately drafted into the Korean War. Lois saw action in Korea, where he suffered a shrapnel injury. He also had a knack for insubordination. When he was finally discharged, he returned to New York to resume his career in graphic design. He managed to land a job at CBS to work under the legendary Bill Golden. Golden was a renowned designer who had created the famous CBS eye logo. He also oversaw the advertising for all CBS programs. It was there Lois learned you had to fight to sell good work because Bill golden was fearless. One day, Lois watched Golden present ideas to the CBS brass. They turned them all down. Golden took the ads, tore them to pieces, threw the confetti at them and slammed the boardroom door so hard the handle came off in his hand. The feisty Lois had found a kindred spirit when golden sent one of his designers to present an ad to TV star Jackie Gleason. Gleason threw the designer out of his office. When golden heard, he marched over to Gleason's office and the two nearly got into a fist fight. Gleason approved the Ad. It was a lesson that would completely inform Lois's career. George Lois dream was to find a job on Madison Avenue. So he quit CBS and took a job at an advertising agency called Lennon and Newell. One day, George was given an assignment for American Airlines and he sketched up two dozen potential ads. He presented them to the ad agency's vice president by spreading the ads on the floor of the executive's office. The VP turned his nose up at the work and proceeded to walk all over the layouts. Lois was incensed. He quietly rolled up all the ads, then grabbed the edge of the VP's desk and tipped it over, then calmly walked back to his office. George soon quit and got a job at another agency. But he still wasn't happy. That's when he sent a letter to Bill Bernback. Bill Burnback was the co founder and creative boss of Doyle Dane Birnback or DDB as it was known. As I've said many times, DDB was leading a creative revolution on Madison Avenue. Bernbach emphasized stunning visuals and simple truthful writing. He brought wit to advertising, perfectly showcased in his agency's ads for Volkswagen. It was that revolutionary work that prompted Lois to send a letter to Bill Bernbach. That letter would land Lois a job at the fabled ad agency. Previous to ddb, ad writers were valued and art directors weren't. Writers wrote the ads, then sent them to a bullpen of art directors to do the layout. But Bill Bernbach valued art directors and revolutionized the ad business by pairing art directors with writers to work together. That thinking appealed to George Lois because he wanted respect for his ideas. He would get that from Burnback. The clients were another story.

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[Terry O'Reilly]

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[Terry O'Reilly]

One of George's first assignments at DDB was to create a subway poster for Goodman's Matzos. The unleavened flatbread is an integral part of Passover, so the poster was to advertise the matzos in time for the Jewish celebration. So Lois came up with an idea he liked. When a DDB account executive came back from the presentation, he told Lois that the CEO of Goodman's had turned his poster idea down. When Lois asked why, the account guy just shrugged his shoulders. That didn't fly with Lois, so he insisted on going to see the client himself. The account man warned Lois that he was poking his crooked nose into a buzz saw. The owner of Goodman's Matzos was a tyrant. Lois was undaunted. When George walked into the office of the Goodman's owner, he began his pitch. When he unraveled the poster, the owner immediately said, I don't like it. Lois said, wait. This is a gorgeous poster that will capture people's attention on the subway. I don't like it. Look, replied Lois, people are in a hurry in the subway. This poster will catch their attention quickly. I don't like it. The bushy eyebrowed Matzah King just sat there with his arms crossed. I don't like it and I don't want to talk about it anymore. Neither do I, said Lois. Then he rolled up his poster, walked over to the window, opened it, and began to climb out onto the ledge high above the New York traffic. The matzo owner said, you going someplace? Lois said, yeah, climbed out onto the ledge, then screamed at the top of his lungs, you make the matzah, I'll make the adze. Stop. Yelled the old man. We'll run it, we'll run it. Lois climbed back in, said thank you, and calmly walked out of the office. Somewhere, Bill golden was smiling. That year, Dedeb won four of the 12 gold trophies at the big advertising award show. Lois had Done three of them. But after only one year at ddb, Lois and two other colleagues, an account guy named Fred Papert and writer Julian Koenig, decided to go out on their own. They felt there was room for one more hotshot creative agency on conservative Madison Avenue. The year was 1960. Paper Koenig, Lois, or PKL as it became known, started to win business immediately. One of the first accounts was for the Herald Tribune newspaper. Lois And Koenig produced TV commercials for the paper with a bold strategy. Four days a week at 1 minute before the CBS 11pm television news program, PKL ran a commercial that featured the newspaper's headline and a voiceover that said, there's more to the news than this headline and there's more to it than you're going to hear on this program, read the Herald Tribune. Amazingly, CBS ran that put down night after night until CBS chairman William Paley saw the ad. He was furious and called PKL to get the ads off the air immediately. Lois just smiled. By that time, the Herald Tribune circulation had taken a big jump. Mission accomplished. In 1964, Robert Kennedy's organization asked PKL to create an advertising campaign for Kennedy's run for Senator of New York. At that time, Robert Kennedy was thought to be a carpetbagger, someone who was running in a state where he had no local connections. So Lois and Koenig developed the campaign theme line to counter that perception that said, lets put Robert Kennedy to work for New York. And Lois gave Kennedy one persuasive piece of advice. He told him to be photographed as much as possible with his suit jacket off and his sleeves rolled up. Lois said rolled up sleeves were the symbol of a man hard at work. Look at almost any photo of Robert Kennedy from that period. His sleeves are rolled up in almost all of them. RFK won the election. When the Quaker Oats Company was looking for a new ad agency, they were impressed with PKL's work. Except they had one problem. Quaker was based in Chicago and PKL was in New York. They wanted to hire Lois's agency, but decided to hire a local firm instead because they wanted the ability to call meetings at short notice. After hanging up the phone, Lois jumped in a taxi, got on a plane to Chicago and raced over to Quaker's offices. When the Quaker clients returned from lunch, they couldn't believe Lois was sitting in their lobby. Lois got the business he knew. You could impress clients with your work, but you can also impress them with your hustle and desire. One day, a new tech Company called Haloid Xerox knocked on Lois door. The company made a new fangled machine called a photocopier. First order of business was the company's name. Lois agency recommended shop shortening it to Xerox. The Xerox 914 photocopier made duplicating simple and easy. Just put the original on the glass, press two buttons and the copy would come out the other end. So Lois & Co. Created a commercial where a businessman is sitting at his desk and hands a sheet of paper to his young daughter. Debbie, will you please go make a copy of this? Okay, daddy. Little Debbie skips to the Xerox machine, puts the paper on the glass, presses two buttons. The copy comes out the other end, then gives it to her father who asks which one is the original. Overnight, Xerox became famous. But the commercial generated complaints. Competitors said no photocopier could work that easy or that fast. They said the ad exaggerated the speed of the machine. The FCC got involved and told Xerox to pull the commercial off the air. Lois then offered to produce a new commercial and invited the FCC to attend the actual filming. Lois had a plan. He wanted to film the exact same commercial again shot by shot in front of the fcc. Except this time they wouldn't cast a little girl. They would cast a chimpanzee. As the camera rolled, the FCC watched as a chimp grabbed the paper. Sam, will you please go make a copy of this? He then waddled over to the photocopier, pressed two buttons, made a copy and brought it back to the businessman in real time. You have just seen how easy it is to make copies with the Xerox 914 office copier. For a personal demonstration, simply call your nearest Xerox office now. Lois had an even stronger commercial proving the copier was so simple to use even a monkey could do it. The country went ape for zero.

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[Terry O'Reilly]

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[Terry O'Reilly]

Store or sleepnumber.com today rocks By 1963, Lois's ad agency was a $20 million company 200 million in today's dollars. With that success papered Koenig Lois became the first advertising agency to go public since 1929. At 31 years of age, George Lois was a millionaire. It wasn't just the stock market that was noticing Lois Bold work. One day, the editor of Esquire asked George to bring his bold design work to the covers of the magazine, and thus began a long relationship. Lois would go on to design 92 covers over the next 10 years. Every Esquire cover was audacious. As Lois said, he loved simple images with a shot of vinegar to burn the senses. When the civil rights movement was gaining steam in 1963, Lois put boxer Sonny Liston on the COVID wearing a Santa hat. It shocked readers, and the magazine lost over $750,000 worth of advertising. But Esquire loved the COVID When the magazine asked if pop art was dead, Lois showed artist Andy Warhol drowning in a giant can of Campbell's tomato soup. And in maybe his most famous cover, when Muhammad Ali was stripped of his heavyweight title for refusing induction into the army because of his religious views, Lois photographed Ali posing as the martyr Saint Sebastian with six bloody arrows sticking out of his body. The image stopped people in their tracks because it tackled three issues at the Vietnam War, race and religion. The New York Times called his covers, quote, an acid rain critique on society, race, politics and war. Sales of the magazine increased 400%. Meanwhile, back on Madison Avenue papered Koenig Lois was billing over $40 million by 1967330 million by today's dollars. But George Lois wasn't Happy his agency was getting fat and comfortable. Instead of hitting home runs, the agency had started to bunt. George Lois was restless, then stunned Madison Avenue by resigning from the ad agency he co founded to start all over again. Two years later. His new agency, called Lois Holland Calloway, was billing $20 million. One of the biggest accounts Lois landed was Braniff Airlines. He came up with a great slogan. When you've got it flaunt was a fun, unexpected line, and it allowed Lois to flaunt every feature of the airline. Ranif International. When you got it, flaunt it. That line became a national catchphrase. It was used in movies, comic routines and in everyday life. I remember hearing when you've got it flaunted all the time back in the 70s, which was amazing because Braniff didn't fly to Canada yet. George Lois line had even reached my hometown of Sudbury, Ontario in 1975. When Lois heard that boxer Reuben Hurricane Carter was in jail for a crime he didn't commit, he rallied behind Carter to get him freedom. When one of his biggest clients learned of it, he told Lois to drop his support of the black man or he would fire him. Lois absolutely refused the $5 million account. Walked out the door that day. Hard to believe, but in MTV's first year of operation, it was an abject failure. No one believed a 24 hour rock channel could ever work. Record companies had no interest in supplying free music videos. And more importantly, no cable operators were adding the channel to their schedule. So MTV asked Lois to create an advertising campaign aimed at cable companies. But Lois decided the solution was to advertise not to cable operators, but straight to the kids. And he wanted to arm them with a line that would turn the fledgling channel around. With typical bravado, Lois managed to convince Mick Jagger to appear in his launch commercial for free. The clincher in ichat, was a voiceover that said, if you don't get MTV where you live, call your cable operator and say, I want my mtv. Every time the ad aired, cable operators were flooded with calls from people saying, I want my MTV. Within months, MTV was in 80% of households. Record companies lined up to have their videos played and advertisers considered MTV a must buy. George Lois had done it again. He had helped usher in the cutting edge era of music videos. And he did it all at the cutting edge age of 51. The legendary George Lois passed away in 2022. He was 91. I went to hear him speak once. I had only ever read about him, but had never heard him talk I was amazed that he sounded like he was right out of the Sopranos. Tough and profane and utterly inspiring. His message to us that day was, if you're not willing to fight for your ideas, get the hell out of the business. He said. You can't be cautious or you can be creative, but you could never be a cautious creative. That's what I admired about Lois. He might have been too loud. He had a big ego. He sometimes took too much credit for his agency's work, but he never backed down from a fight. In corporate boardrooms, he was willing to lose an account rather than compromise his principles. He was willing to walk away from a $300 million company he co founded in order to preserve his creative spark. Some would say he had too much acid in his battery. But I say this. I know what it takes to fight for good ideas every day. You come away with a lot of scar tissue. But Lois was willing to grab Madison Avenue by the collar and shake it up. For six astonishing decades, he created slogans that became part of the culture. 32 of his Esquire covers are in the permanent collection of the Museum of Modern Art. And he saved MT TV from oblivion. @ the end of the day, George Lois understood the one critical thing about creativity. You'll never find big ideas in a safe place. You'll only find them out on the ledge when you're under the influence. I'm Terry O'Reilly. This episode was recorded in the Tear Stream Mobile recording studio. Producer Debbie O'Reilly sound engineer Jeff Devine under the Influence theme by Ari Posner and Ian Lefever. Music provided by APM Music. Follow me on social @terry oinfluence. If you're enjoying this episode, you might also like There's Something About Mary Mad Woman Mary Wells, Season 10, Episode 18. She worked with George Lois. You'll find it in our archives wherever you listen to the show. And you can now find our podcasts on the Apostrophe YouTube channel. See you next week. Fun fact, when Haloid Xerox simplified its name to just Xerox, there was a worry the public would pronounce it Xrox, which was the name of a laxative at the time.

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[Terry O'Reilly]

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