Understood: Who Broke the Internet?
Bonus Episode Summary: Cory Doctorow Chats About His New Novel on Bookends with Mattea Roach
Release Date: June 9, 2025

Introduction to the Conversation

In this bonus episode of CBC's Understood: Who Broke the Internet?, host Mattea Roach engages in a deep and insightful conversation with renowned author and journalist Cory Doctorow. The discussion centers around Doctorow's latest novel, "Picks and Shovels," the third installment in his gripping series featuring Martin Hench, a forensic accountant battling financial crimes in Silicon Valley.

Cory's New Novel: "Picks and Shovels"

Mattea Roach introduces Doctorow’s new novel as part of his acclaimed crime series:

Mattea Roach [07:22]: "Can you tell us a bit more about [Martin Hench] as a character? Like, what is forensic accounting?"

Cory Doctorow elaborates on the protagonist:

Cory Doctorow [07:22]: "Forensic accounting is figuring out where the money went. Marty Hench spent 40 years unwinding every baroque scam that self-important tech bros designed, ensuring that financial crimes don't go unnoticed."

Doctorow explains the unique choice of a forensic accountant as the hero:

Cory Doctorow [08:42]: "Financial crime happens on an unimaginable scale, often abstracted away as millionaire or billionaire violence. Marty Hench represents the fight against the normies who suffer from wage theft and other financial deceptions."

Technology and Its Double-Edged Nature

The conversation delves into the dual nature of technology—its potential for both oppression and liberation. Doctorow emphasizes his concerns about the intertwined relationship between technology and societal issues:

Cory Doctorow [05:30]: "Technology is very intimately interwoven into all of this—incipient fascism, climate collapse, xenophobia, genocide. It's the medium through which both pathogenic views and resistance are transmitted."

San Francisco as a Setting

Mattea Roach and Cory Doctorow explore the rich and complex backdrop of San Francisco in the novel:

Cory Doctorow [15:58]: "San Francisco is built by successive gold rushes, each adding color and flavor. It's a hub for diverse cultures, military presence, and technological innovation, making it the perfect setting for Marty Hench's adventures."

Doctorow reflects on the city's historical and contemporary issues, including stark income inequality:

Cory Doctorow [18:21]: "San Francisco, much like New Delhi, has a visible population experiencing homelessness and addiction juxtaposed with extreme wealth—a contradiction that's both alarming and integral to the city's character."

Inshittification

A central theme discussed is "inshittification," a concept coined by Doctorow to describe the degradation of the internet:

Cory Doctorow [28:48]: "Inshittification describes how platforms initially serve users but become increasingly exploitative as they lock users in, withdraw value, and prioritize business interests over user experience."

Doctorow provides a vivid example using Facebook:

Cory Doctorow [28:48]: "Facebook started with a simple value proposition but evolved into a platform that exploits users through invasive advertising and data monetization, culminating in a toxic environment."

Policy and Regulation in Tech

The discussion moves to the impact of policies like the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) and the Right to Repair movement:

Cory Doctorow [22:46]: "The DMCA makes bypassing digital locks illegal, trapping consumers into expensive and restrictive ecosystems. This policy-driven lock-in inhibits competition and innovation."

Addressing the Canadian context, Doctorow criticizes the adoption of similar restrictive laws:

Cory Doctorow [25:11]: "In 2010, despite overwhelming public opposition, Canada adopted a law mirroring the DMCA, crippling industries from mechanics to healthcare by enforcing restrictive digital locks."

Hope and Solutions

Despite the grim landscape, Doctorow offers a hopeful perspective on combating the ensnarement of technology companies:

Cory Doctorow [33:20]: "Effective solutions lie in both regulation and market competition. Strong privacy laws and fostering new firms can counteract the monopolistic practices that lead to inshittification."

He emphasizes collective action and policy reform as essential to reclaiming technology for the public good:

Cory Doctorow [35:35]: "Solving issues like tech abuse requires collective political responses, akin to addressing climate change. Building coalitions and exporting liberatory technology are key steps forward."

Role of Fiction in Addressing Tech Issues

Doctorow highlights the importance of fiction in shaping societal perceptions and policies around technology:

Cory Doctorow [36:35]: "Science fiction serves as a warning, not a suggestion. It exposes the malleability of technological and social arrangements, urging readers to envision and strive for alternative futures."

He connects his writing to his activism, using fiction to process anxieties and inspire change:

Cory Doctorow [38:14]: "Fiction allows us to explore limitless possibilities and challenge the inevitability of current technological trajectories, fostering a mindset geared towards positive transformation."

Conclusion

The conversation concludes on an optimistic note, reiterating that change is possible through both individual actions and systemic reforms. Doctorow underscores the importance of narrative in motivating societal shifts:

Cory Doctorow [40:21]: "The forensic accountant in my novels symbolizes the unraveling of flawed systems, highlighting that heroes can emerge from those who confront and dismantle the injustices within technological landscapes."

Mattea Roach wraps up the episode, urging listeners to engage with Doctorow’s novel:

Mattea Roach [40:54]: "Go read Picks and Shovels, everyone. It was completely not the sort of thing I normally read, but so fun."

Notable Quotes

• Cory Doctorow [05:30]: "We are standing on the brink of incipient fascism and climate collapse... We need to make this digital nervous system fit for human civilization."
• Cory Doctorow [28:48]: "Inshittification is where platforms start good but become exploitative as they lock users in and prioritize business over user experience."
• Cory Doctorow [36:35]: "Fiction serves as a warning... It urges readers to envision and strive for alternative futures."

Final Thoughts

This bonus episode offers a profound exploration of how technology, policy, and narrative intertwine to shape our digital landscape. Cory Doctorow's insights not only illuminate the themes of his latest novel but also provide a roadmap for understanding and combating the systemic issues plaguing the modern internet. For listeners eager to delve deeper into the intersection of technology and society, Doctorow’s "Picks and Shovels" comes highly recommended.

Produced by:
Katie Swales

Associate Producer:
Eilee Yamamoto

Senior Producer:
Jacqueline Kirk

Executive Producer:
Erin Balser

Audio Technician:
Arande Williams

Special Thanks:
The entire CBC Books team

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