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- [00:00]
Mark Stedman
The Encyclopedia Galactica defines productivity as the science and art of encouraging sentient beings to work harder under the illusion they are self starters. The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy defines productivity as a load of mindless bunk designed to sell books and find public speaking jobs for people who love spreadsheets. I'm Mark Stedman and this is Undo, where we investigate productivity and try and find a happy middle ground at Point Some, somewhere in between, all while remembering where our towel is. This week we're taking a bit of a detour instead of the usual deep dive into a productivity method, I wanted to share something some friends and I wrote back in 2021. Before Undo, I had a podcast about the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, which you can still find if you look hard enough. Once we discussed pretty much everything Douglas Adams had ever created, from Arthur to Zaphod, we started writing our own ENT for the Galactifamous guide with those friendly letters on the COVID This week I'm sharing the highlights of one of those episodes where each of us presented a piece of writing on the subject of productivity from the viewpoint of the Hitchhiker's Guide. We then spent a bit of time discussing each piece, so in order, you'll first hear my piece read by our friend Emma, followed by John Hickman's piece, then John Bounds, and finally Danny Smith. Together we make up the cult podcast Beware of the Leopard, and we are collectively responsible for trying to keep the seesaw of podcasting politics as firmly stuck on the left hand side as possible.
- [01:43]
John Hickman
This article was published in a brief period when the guide was under the ownership of the VAPS Media Group, who made a number of sweeping changes to the layout and structure of articles in the hopes that any unused space around, for example the words on the page could be taken up with targeted advertising. Ultimately, this effort to radically rethink the guide's monetization strategy didn't pay off, as most people found the guide became too uncomfortably hot to hold after a few minutes of reading due to the processing power required to tap into the reader's cerebral cortex to find out whether they prefer a meat based or meat free hamburger to be shown to them because they once looked up the definition of mustard. Whilst many of those articles have been superseded by the user editable Galactopedia, some inexplicably remain like this early draft of a Listicle on Productivity five Unbelievable Productivity hacks. You're an arsehole for not using number three will leave you screaming. The only way to fatten an Arcturan mega chicken is to keep feeding it vit vujigig. That quote doesn't have anything to do with the topic of this article, but lots of people search for it. We don't actually know if Veet ever said that, but it's the sort of thing he would say, so that's good enough for our purposes. Now for something general about how the pace of working life has got to be too fast, what with the house and the kids and the robot spouse and the sexually frustrated dog. In this era of sabitha cheese graters and microwavable DNA, it can be hard to fit it all in or something. Karen, get one of the juniors to fill this bit in with something their age group actually knows about. Ever wonder how those fat cats on Ursa Minor beta crush it 11 days a week and still make time for Brockian Ultra Cricket? We've got you. Here are the five productivity hacks those bastards don't want you to know about. Karen Is this too aggressive? Space for an ad Space for an ad. Space for an ad Delete your email. We all know about Grotem Dink's inbox Never strategy where all Sabita mail is forwarded straight from the sender's outbox into your trash, saving you the time and hassle of having to read or act upon any message that might come your way. But that's far too time consuming. And all that time watching emails get deleted is time that should be spent syncing Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters or recording a podcast. So now simply cut out the middleman and delete your email account. Hang on, just waiting for the next page to load. 2. Go to bed and never wake up. We all know meetings are toxic and the longer you're awake, the more of your precious calendar can be taken up discussing meetings, calendarizing meetings, and in some cases even attending meetings. That's why we recommend going to bed, preferably on a restacular mattress affiliate link here and only waking up to perform bodily functions. Number three Eliminate all bodily functions. Did you know the average sentient Lifeform spends between 2 and 39 hours every week ejecting water vapor, high performance petrol or other waste from their bodies. This is time that should be spent undermining your in laws or recording a podcast. The new Happy Tubes Excretia Erasure Device secures firmly to one or any of your body's points of egress and constantly milks you throughout the day. You will learn to love the gentle sucking motion of the Happy Tubes Excretia Erasure device, and after a while you won't even notice the searing pain or blood loss. But what you will notice is how many more hours in the day you have Related Articles Zaphod Beeble Brock's bites back at Cancel Culture Eccentrica Galumbits on her botched nipple reshaping Slaty Bartfast looks at Fjords fails to secure a second season four Take all the drugs Procrastinin, Duitol and Synapsalax are all widely available in most reputable chemists throughout the nether regions of the galaxy. But who hasn't been at a party and been offered a couple of lines of powdered Brochian Ultra Beans? While of course we at the Guide would never condone the taking of any illicit substances unless we're taken over by someone hip again, there's something to be said for that sharp kick in the brain stem that you can only get from a bump of Brocaine. Try it today. Own your calendar. Literally. Dr. Juven Stophammer, Timebender magazine's pinup of the Month and the best selling author of Take youe Time, is the pioneer of a new thought technology that essentially empowers people to reshape the fundamental nature of their time management. For Dr. Stophammer, time is simply not only an illusion illusion, but one which is seen differently by each observer. For a nominal fee of 268,000 Altarian dollars, you can attend a Stophammer Time refactoring seminar where you will learn how to create your own calendar. Divide months, weeks, and even days into arbitrary units of your choosing and avoid any potential work deadlines foisted on you by people with incompatible calendars. The fewer deadlines you have to meet, the more time you can spend scrolling through ads, picking wax out of your ear, or recording a podcast. Free webinars on calendar reframing run every weekday at 2600 stophammer time should we.
- [07:37]
Danny Smith
Just pack it in? Because we're not. I'm not gonna be. We're not gonna beat that.
- [07:40]
John Bounds
I hadn't planned for this to be so good.
- [07:42]
Danny Smith
Is that where you wanted to go first? Is that a thing? You want to fucking blow us off the stage?
- [07:47]
Emma Wright
Well, usually what happens is we all get blisteringly drunk and then I'm the last one to record and everybody's already sleepy. So I thought I'd get mine in first while I was still able to vaguely see.
- [07:58]
Unknown
Oh, I mean, I was basically upset that it felt like I should have taken some sort of survey in order to be able to listen to that.
- [08:04]
Emma Wright
Please write and review the survey. It really helps the survey get discovered.
- [08:10]
John Hickman
The best book that was never written, the guide claims, was written by Mr. Peter Donaldson of number 27B Longdale Road, Reigate, Surrey, Earth. Donaldson lived for some 37 years until his house was demolished to make way for a hyperspace bypass, leaving his first novel thoroughly unstarted. We know this story only because the sheer emptiness of meaningful progress made on the which in fact would have been the first volume of a groundbreaking dyad created at the moment of his death, a quantum event that triggered observation equipment many millions of light years away in the research laboratory of productivity anthropologist Gurkhut Taktisi. Taktisi was so excited by the alarm that she immediately began to make plans to investigate. Within three years, and after just 1,137 to do lists, Tactisi realized she needed a bigger whiteboard to mind map the requirements for the trip. Four years after that, 2,391 to do lists, Tactisi had gathered many requirements and began working on a system to prioritise the work. Seven years later still, she had now delivered nine conference papers on the work, three of which she'd actually drafted as journal articles. Two of those had not been sent to publishers, but one had come back. The paper, entitled if Zaphod Beeblebrox Had a the Quantum Signature of Doing Nothing, had received warm praise from its first peer reviewer. However, reviewer number two pointed out that Taktisi's work was naive and dull beyond imagining and hasn't even cited my own paper, Zaphod Beeblebrok's 8 My Gebbs on Quantum Theory Applied to Brownian Motion in warm drinks. Years 8 and 9 were spent writing funding bids to give more time for Tactisi to plan her fieldwork to investigate the gaping void of action in space time. Years 10 to 12 went on outreach to engage stakeholders in the local community with this valuable work. During year 13, Tactisi took a sabbatical to work on a much delayed manuscript for an old project. In year 14, Tactisi was made a dean in recognition of her glowing career. Her first objective as senior management was to bring in workload modelling, as she felt there was a general lack of productivity amongst the faculty. Her model is yet to be implemented on this, the 4,000th anniversary of her death. Had she ever made the trip to the site of the quantum disruption, she would have eventually pieced together the following Mr. Peter Donaldson of no. 27B Longdale Road, Reigate, Surrey Earth, who never wrote a word of the most important book never written, died owing £1,867 in credit card debt. Run up at Ryman's stationery. His desktop PC contained 29 different distraction free writing programs, 28 unopened. And as his planet was vaporized, he held in his hand a copy of the book Getting Things Done.
- [11:25]
Emma Wright
That puts me in mind of a piece of technology that Mr. John Bounds owned and talked about in a very early episode of this particular podcast. John Bounds, would you like to tell us about that?
- [11:38]
John Bounds
How's your Hemingway?
- [11:39]
Emma Wright
John Hemming. Right.
- [11:41]
Unknown
It was lovely. I flogged it, got almost all the money I spent on it back. It was basically a computer where they'd taken all the computer away. It was meant to be a nice typewriter. You know how some keyboards are a bit like pressing on like a slice of cheese. But it was like it was a good keyboard with all good action and all that. And it was portable and battery operated meant that last a long time and stuff. But it turned out it wasn't the access to the Internet that was lighting, it was the access to the rest of the world. Or at least that's what I thought until they did the whole lockdown thing and then it was became the access to something else.
- [12:26]
John Hickman
Motion without time is impossible. Time without motion is just decay. Time and motion is people looking at you, frowning and using a stopwatch on your piss breaks. Although it's beloved of certain types of business and is supposedly to improve productivity, time and motion is not to be confused with time is money as this is complete nonsense, only said by the kind of people who also say I enjoy a round of golf. People need to take personal responsibility. Responsibility or I wouldn't live in Birmingham itself. There are a few too many blacks. The concept behind a time and motion study is to benchmark how a task is carried out, how long each part of it takes, and to establish where productivity could be improved by changing practices. The practice of a time and motion study is for someone with a stopwatch to time how long it takes you to do a motion. Time and motion studies are part of what is called a Taylorist approach, based on the idea that most workers who are forced to perform repetitive tasks tend to work at the slowest rate that goes unpunished. The originator Frank Taylor suggested that time and motion studies combined with rational analysis could uncover one best method for performing any particular task and that prevailing methods would seldom equal to those best methods. By making a task more efficient, productivity increases and bosses can reduce the number of workers with a small increase in the number of management roles in most industries, it was found that you could reduce headcount by spending time counting the time taken to use their bottoms. Fordism named after Henry Ford, motor mogul and only American who Adolf Hitler complements by name in Mein Kampf, takes this concept and expands the automation and assembly line nature of the work. This in turn leads to alienation of the workers from their activity and eventual replacement by robots. Fordism named after the guide editor Ford Prefect, rejects much of this and posits that a worker should spend much of their time avoiding motion and recovery reclining with a large drink. This in turn leads to eventual replacement by robots across the universe. Time and motion studies are only carried out on the lowest paid manual workers if they are attempted in environments where any amount of creativity is allowed. A young Zaphod Beeblebrox, or species equivalent responds with something like if you've got the time, I've got the motion, baby. And a thrust of whatever passes for hips depending on the local reproductive system. When travelling, you may often need to take temporary employment of the kind where you'll be monitored and alienated. Unions will recommend you join them to pass motions in support of those needing to pass motions. The HitchHiker's Guide recommends one always crap on company time. Yes, get shit done.
- [15:30]
John Bounds
Oh, love a work poo. Oh God, love a work poo.
- [15:34]
Emma Wright
The sweetest Time Theft there's lots of.
- [15:37]
Danny Smith
Origin stories that I tell about me being a writer and like, learning to love to write. Like reading In Cold Blood like A levels, or realizing that I've got like a head full of memories and like I've never expressed them and never really took any photographs. I wanted to get them down. But one of the real reasons why I started writing was because when I worked at Compass, my friend would email me questions like why does Superman have stubble instead of a beard when he turned evil in Superman 2? And to which I would genuinely write two or three thousand words on the semiotics of facial hair during work time.
- [16:20]
Emma Wright
We have discussed this in a recent episode. Yes, but it's valid and I will.
- [16:25]
John Bounds
Continue to stand for it.
- [16:27]
Emma Wright
Oh, completely. I keep thinking about work poos and other forms of time theft.
- [16:31]
John Bounds
I mean, there's a delightful pun at the heart of it. I don't want to explain your joke too much, but it's Even if you don't work in a job now where you need to have a poo to have a break, we've all got a lovely story about having a poo.
- [16:47]
John Hickman
So you've accidentally caught a job. I get it. You're sitting at a desk in a row of identical desks in an office floor that is the same office floor stacked upon itself 30 or 40 times. You're almost certainly hungover and somehow wearing a shirt that is simultaneously too long at the tendrils and too tight across your chest. Stop. Read the large, friendly words on the front of the book until you can breathe again. We've all been there, whether shanghaied into service in the grimy space docks of the Grunt Chill seven, working off the gambling debts accrued on the pleasure planet Vargas, or simply made a massive lapse in judgment when faced with the decision to either sell some of your more precious fluids or get a real job at some point, most hitchhikers end up in office work. By the way, there is a virtual Vagas Gambler to Office Employee pipeline set up by the nearest drone planet 124124. So boring they named the it twice. This is when the chief suit of 124124 realised it would be cheaper to hire bookies and sex workers to help visitors run up massive debts than pay headhunters and employment specialists. A lot less sleazy, too, he's reported to have said, having now calmed down and accepted your lot, however temporarily. What can you do about it? The answer, of course, is as little as possible. Not only is this a matter of personal comfort, but a moral obligation to the swashbuckling ideal we hold so dear at Megadodo Publications. Here's how you do that, and this is a secret passed down through generations of hitchhikers. Guard it with your life, because if discovered, the jig is up. Or, in the case of the dancing offices of River Flatley, the jig is about to start. One word product Productivity. But isn't the point of productivity to do more work? We rhetorically hear you say, to which we say, aha. But is it? You're fundamentally looking at the problem wrong. The point of productivity is to do less. First thing you need to do is let your Intelligence Resources department know your home planet's religion is productivity. Productivity went from cult to fully fledged religion after one particularly fruitful afternoon's work, thanks to a devastatingly persuasive mind map presentation to the Galaxy's Office of Religion, Sports and Biscuits. IR will be delighted. Not only do they get to tick a diversity box on one of the many forms they pass to each other, but also they'll be excited to have such an invested member of the team. Now, as a member of a protected religion, it's against all sorts of codes, laws, guidelines, not to mention ethical boundaries to force you to do things that clash with the core of your religion. If you can't remember which codes, laws and guidelines, don't worry, just make them up. Nobody checks. But this won't be an issue to begin with. After all, you're making your job more productive and by extension, everybody's job easier, right? Nope. The first job is to analyze the workflow. Don't be afraid of these vague terms. Vague terms are now your sword and shield in your newfound lazy quest. Analyzing the workflow could take anything from an afternoon to three or four months, depending on how big a report you can bother to knock out on a Friday afternoon. Bullet Points Some comments sense suggestions every so often to guarantee that these will be all anyone will read anyway. Nothing groundbreaking here. A mixture of hyper focused and generally vague will work best. The new Tromatic drinks dispenser cups should be 25 mini quadlets bigger or smaller. The meeting should be more vertical. The instruction of despair pods go wild. Be sure amongst them to include all reports should include a bullet point summary in your bullet point summary. A decently worded email with these points can ensure the report is never opened.
- [20:44]
Danny Smith
In the place first.
- [20:46]
John Hickman
In fact, the larger the report, the more productive it would be to not actually read for those inclined Are you getting it yet? With the proper mindset, goofing off will be your main occupation. It's important to remember productivity is about doing less and achieving more. Luckily, it's never specified what that more is. At any point when your productivity guru status is threatened, a good chance chunk of time can be taken up with finding metrics that can be measured. And if you pick something that hasn't thus far been measured, you can be out the door before any success or lack of it can be discovered. All the members of the productivity religion call themselves gurus. It's one of the few organized religions where every member is a guru and none are followers.
- [21:34]
John Bounds
So is productivity in mlm Danny, because everyone's got an upstream guru, right?
- [21:40]
Emma Wright
Everyone's got an upstream guru.
- [21:41]
Danny Smith
I I think people that that are involved in productivity would be very resistant to that. But it is a dodge.
- [21:47]
Emma Wright
It like in many cases it is.
- [21:49]
Danny Smith
A dodge and I will go down like in many cases it is a dodge in many cases it's a mixture of common sense and new words and buzz phrases. And I think that the wheels of bureaucracy are greased by new words and buzz phrases because anyone that feels as if they're being stagnant won't make a good worker. So I think we like people that, that are involved in that particular machine have to fool themselves every so often into kind of into thinking that they are doing something different and exciting and, and better.
- [22:22]
Emma Wright
There's also a lot of stuff that gets lumped into what I think we call productivity because there's the sort of inbox zero that I was riffing on. There's this, that getting things done is a methodology. There's a point that I.
- [22:34]
Danny Smith
It a third thing.
- [22:35]
Emma Wright
There's a third thing because the comedy rule of threes. But no, I'm sorry, I haven't, I, I thought I had a point but.
- [22:41]
Mark Stedman
I've reached a pothole.
- [22:42]
John Bounds
I was saying earlier on, for productivity purposes, just put in there, just put joke here and then move on to the next thing.
- [22:48]
Emma Wright
Yeah, that's fine. But productivity does mean a lot to different people and I think the gurus will, I don't know it like there are, there are people on the good side of this and then on the bad side of this there's also the whole thing of the fetishize, fetishization of, of productivity. Like some people will call bullet journaling productive. Whereas it's actually one of the least productive things you can do because you're spending all your time making a book look pretty and yes, you've got all these beautiful looking tick boxes of things that you're going to do and you cross them off from the day before and you write them in the next day. You have a beautifully hand ruled calendar where you write in all the diary entries for the day. And it's. Do you know what's quicker than doing all of that? Like any notepad document, just any plain text document is quicker than all of that. It's not about the productivity, it's about.
- [23:36]
John Bounds
Being seen doing any work.
- [23:38]
Emma Wright
Yeah, it's not about doing any work, it's about being seen to be doing that kind of productivity.
- [23:42]
Danny Smith
What I generally love recently is that all the studies and all the empirical evidence is pointing to if you don't constantly monitor people, they'll do more work than ever before. They'll do more work than if they were in the office. They'll do more work if like it's a four day week than if it's a five day week. If you leave people to do their own shit and do it in their own time and find their own fucking level, they tend to get more done naturally, which I don't know, I maybe I should write a productivity book which is, I don't know, fucking. If it works for you, do it. If it works for you, do it. Is the great of a productivity book that genuinely is.
- [24:20]
Emma Wright
And that is the best rule for productivity because. And it like, it will change as well. Sometimes it's like going back to your frog thing genuinely in that you're a different frog on different days. And for some weeks, I feel like I'm more productive with this particular task management system. On other days, I want to reorganize everything into something else. And part of the work of productivity is to actually not bow to those whims and just go, you know what? I can use the same task manager that I've used for the last three years. Because the important thing is actually doing the work. This impulse is just about either procrastination or just the need to want to do anything different. Like I did a podcast episode on. On ways to procrastinate. And it is remarkable the things that I can do and. And I think anyone, any of us can do. If you ever need me to reorganize my photo collection, just put any form of work in front of me that I actually need to do and I will organize that. Some bitch. I will talk about that.
- [25:17]
John Bounds
Mark's saying that like it's a bit. But like yesterday we were having a conversation and he said, oh, here's a photograph of me, age 8, in Florida. I don't know that what were you singing?
- [25:28]
Emma Wright
Wasn't the greatest level of all. Yep. It was a video. It was a still from a video. I opened the video and took the still for you.
- [25:33]
John Bounds
Yes. And then he found that in about 27 seconds. So his productivity is very high. Danny, your book that you've just pitched to me as a major publisher on us and minor beta, I am going to commission it because here's how you write a book about productivity. Here's how you write a book about anything to do with modern business that will be placed in the top 10 section in the WHSmiths. In the airport, when you get airside, what you do is you have a title that is something like this. Stop procrastinating colon. Find your inner frog. Okay, that's your title. And in the first four pages, you tell me exactly what you're going to do and then you just repeat that in various ways. 250 pages.
- [26:15]
Emma Wright
You're missing the bit. You're missing the crucial bit, which I think is actually a lot of the bulk of the first third of the book. Which is you need to collate lots of examples of people that have done the same thing that you've spoken to. Yeah. And they should all for some reason be pastors. Apparently productivity and business books would like just tell you about church leaders. Like they're really interested in about what you do in your local church. So if you can make sure that you make the book really Christian, you've cornered that market as well because for some reason people love it when you talk about churches.
- [26:48]
John Bounds
So long as I 100% know what the argument is by the fifth page and I got the idea, just riff off.
- [26:56]
Emma Wright
If you can get the idea of the book whilst you're still in Waterstones without the manager coming over to you and saying, sir, this is not a library, then you've written the book in the right way.
- [27:05]
Danny Smith
So that, fuck it, do it in your own time kind of book that I would write comes from what I'm learning is like an ADHD brain and I don't know what comes first. Do I procrastinate because I know that I work best, like leaving it to the last minute and then pulling a hyper focus and then doing eight hours straight without going for a pee break or do I procrastinate because I'm ADHD and then at the last minute have to pull the eight hours of non stop work because that's all my brain knows how to do. Like I know that I could do an all nighter. I could work for pretty much solid 12 hours and knock something out. I like I've done that a lot.
- [27:48]
Unknown
And it still doesn't help you sleep.
- [27:50]
Emma Wright
Does it help you sleep?
- [27:52]
Danny Smith
Oh, you've got to milk yourself a disgrace before you start a good work. You got to really milk yourself so there's no distraction there. Like you don't want to catch yourself.
- [27:59]
Emma Wright
Before you build yourself.
- [28:00]
John Bounds
Well, you've got to kill your darlings.
- [28:01]
Mark Stedman
Yeah, you don't want to.
- [28:02]
Danny Smith
You don't want to catch a glimpse of ankle while you're researching and just be veered off track.
- [28:07]
Emma Wright
Cover up that table leg, madam. You're in full flaming meadow.
- [28:09]
Danny Smith
So yeah, maybe that's a chapter. Like really pound one out before you get stuck into work. Drink a pint.
- [28:16]
Emma Wright
Working for me.
- [28:18]
Unknown
Productivity Secrets of the Unemployed Anarcho Syndicalist Hippie.
- [28:22]
Emma Wright
We danced around the idea of productivity as a religion and I. My problem is I'm. I'm definitely a sect in there. I'm a sectarian of some sort. I don't exactly know. I might float between a few different dioceses or a few different interpretations. I'm not sure if if I preach to sent St. David Allen or to St. Merlin, man, I don't know. But I definitely know that I've got a few gods.
- [28:48]
Danny Smith
I was raised getting things done, but you know, I've moved from that.
- [28:53]
Emma Wright
I'm lapsed getting things done.
- [28:55]
John Bounds
I like the idea about sectarian violence in the productivity arena. I like the fact that it's very costed and very.
- [29:02]
Mark Stedman
Yeah.
- [29:03]
Emma Wright
Yet the violence is clever.
- [29:05]
John Bounds
Ryan. Let's budget for it.
- [29:06]
Unknown
It never kick off and spend too much time planning it. The whole point is that productivity methods are a form of procrastination.
- [29:14]
Emma Wright
Oh yeah. Not always. They can be. They absolutely can be. And that is a trap you can fall into. And that is what that is the sexy seductress. That is the siren call that is constantly luring you and you have to go, no, I will not listen to you new app or new methodology. No, I've got to do the things. And it's there going, no, if you do this, you will get so many hours in your life and you will feel so much better. You will have a clearer mind, you know. No, I'm not reading your audiobook.
- [29:40]
Danny Smith
But I think it's more insidious than that though, because with procrastination, it's procrastination, you know. You know, falling down a YouTube pole with the greatest Muppets guest stars is completely bad. But when you fall into a like a getting things done or a productivity.
- [29:55]
Emma Wright
You can completely lie to yourself.
- [29:57]
Danny Smith
Absolutely justifying it to yourself. It's like, well, this is working like that. At the end of this, I'm going to be.
- [30:01]
John Bounds
It's amazing how ahead of this the. The Red Dwarf boys were with Rimmers revision timetables. Like they absolutely wrote the best gag about the productivity vibe or for I don't know what the word is. I'm looking for the productivity cult. They absolutely wrote that. Like G was the guy who is self improvement to the max.
- [30:27]
Emma Wright
Yeah.
- [30:28]
John Bounds
But he focuses too much on process and not on actually doing it a thing. And he was incredible. And that's a really good way to get into something that I really did want to actually make sure we buttoned before we leave for the night. I think there's a bit of an elephant in the room that we haven't spoken about all night, which is our patron saint, which is Douglas Adams, a renowned procrastinator. A renowned.
- [30:50]
Emma Wright
We actually don't know if he was a procrastinator. We just knew that he didn't deal very well with deadlines. That doesn't necessarily mean he procrastinated. He just might have been really slow.
- [31:01]
Mark Stedman
You heard the voices of John Hickman, John Bounds, Danny Smith, Emma Wright and me, Mark Stedman. I'll be back with you again next week, but until then, if you'd like to help keep the show running, you can become a patron of the show and get bonus stuff from just $3 a month. Patreon.com undo podcast is where you can go for details. Thanks for listening and until next week, share and enjoy.