What Sherlock Holmes can teach us about productivity and our brains

Summary

Undo – How History's Outliers Got Stuff Done
Episode: What Sherlock Holmes Can Teach Us About Productivity and Our Brains
Release Date: April 20, 2025
Host: Mark Steadman
Guest: Matthew Bellringer, Neurodiversity and Innovation Specialist

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Introduction: The Sherlock Holmes Paradigm

In this compelling episode of Undo, host Mark Steadman delves into the enigmatic world of Sherlock Holmes to uncover timeless productivity lessons. By examining how history's outliers like Holmes achieved remarkable results, Steadman sets the stage for a deep exploration of productivity intertwined with neurodiversity.

Mark Steadman [00:16]: "Sherlock Holmes is the world's first and only consulting detective, and his mind has fascinated us for over 130 years."

Neurodiversity Unveiled

Steadman welcomes Matthew Bellringer, a neurodiversity and innovation specialist, who introduces the crucial distinction between neurodiversity and neurodivergence. This foundational understanding is essential for appreciating how unique cognitive profiles can enhance productivity.

Matthew Bellringer [04:08]: "Everyone is neurodiverse in the sense that we all differ in terms of our lived experience as a result of differences in neurology... Some people lie quite significantly outside of the cultural social expectations about how brains are supposed to work."

Sherlock Holmes as a Model for Neurodivergent Traits

The conversation transitions to Sherlock Holmes, portrayed as embodying traits associated with both autism and ADHD. Steadman emphasizes the value of recognizing these traits without necessarily seeking a formal diagnosis, highlighting Holmes' exceptional abilities paired with his interpersonal challenges.

Mark Steadman [05:22]: "Holmes, as written by Conan Doyle, exhibits traits of both autism and ADHD. Understanding how you behave and what you need can be really helpful."

Managing a Magpie Mind: ADHD and Productivity Systems

Steadman and Bellringer discuss the concept of the "magpie mind," often seen in individuals with ADHD who are drawn to novelty. They explore the allure of constantly switching productivity systems and the importance of maintaining focus to avoid hindering actual work.

Mark Steadman [07:12]: "If we have that kind of novelty seeking mind, we don't let playing with a new system get in the way of doing the actual work."

Matthew Bellringer [07:48]: "Having a magpie mind, having a high novelty-seeking need is a very common experience of ADHD."

Building Flexible Productivity Systems

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to the creation and maintenance of effective productivity systems. Steadman uses the analogy of a band’s rhythm section to illustrate how a system should underpin work without becoming overly rigid or intricate.

Mark Steadman [08:00]: "A productivity system should be like the rhythm section in a tight band. It keeps time and underpins everything else the band does without being the star."

Bellringer adds that systems must integrate seamlessly with one's workflow, requiring minimal maintenance to remain sustainable beyond the initial novelty.

Matthew Bellringer [09:23]: "How does it integrate? How little maintenance does it need?"

Experimentation and Personalization in Productivity

Steadman advocates for a scientific approach to productivity, urging listeners to conduct small experiments and test hypotheses about what works best for them. This method reflects Holmes' meticulous nature in solving cases, emphasizing personalized and adaptable strategies over one-size-fits-all solutions.

Mark Steadman [10:00]: "The key is to start with tiny experiments, begin with a hypothesis, and test it out over a period of time."

The Importance of Support Structures

Drawing parallels to Holmes' reliance on Watson, Steadman underscores the necessity of having supportive relationships to maintain and adapt productivity systems. He shares his personal experiences, highlighting how understanding one's neurodivergent traits can lead to better self-management and communication of needs.

Mark Steadman [14:28]: "Whatever you're undertaking in life, make sure you've got someone to lean on. Systems are flexible up to a point, but people will always provide more support."

Conclusion: Crafting Your Unique Productivity Method

In wrapping up, Steadman encourages listeners to embrace their unique cognitive profiles and build productivity systems that accommodate their strengths and challenges. By learning from Holmes and adopting a flexible, experimental mindset, individuals can enhance their productivity without succumbing to the rigidity of conventional systems.

Mark Steadman [15:43]: "Find the best possible option or the least bad combination of options that works for you, and remember that life is going to rattle the bars of your system."

Additionally, Steadman invites listeners to engage further by joining the Patreon community, offering access to extended interviews and exclusive content for those interested in diving deeper into the topics discussed.

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Key Takeaways:

• Neurodiversity vs. Neurodivergence: Understanding the spectrum of cognitive differences helps tailor productivity methods.
• Flexible Systems: Productivity frameworks should support, not stifle, individual workflows.
• Support Structures: Having reliable support is crucial for maintaining effective productivity practices.
• Personal Experimentation: Adopting a scientific approach to finding what works best for individual needs enhances productivity.

This episode of Undo offers a nuanced look at productivity through the lens of neurodiversity, using the legendary Sherlock Holmes as a captivating case study. By blending historical insights with modern psychological understanding, Steadman provides listeners with actionable strategies to optimize their own work habits.

Transcript

[Sherlock Holmes]

Sherlock Holmes.

[Mark Stedman]

Your Holmes? The meddler? Holmes? The busybody Holmes. The Scotland Yard Jack in office. Holmes. Good afternoon, Dr. House.

[Matthew Bellringer]

You've caused me considerable mental distress.

[Sherlock Holmes]

Certainly hope so.

[Mark Stedman]

The name Sherlock Holmes and The address.

[Sherlock Holmes]

Is 221B Baker Street.

[Mark Stedman]

He's the world's first and only consulting detective, and his mind has fascinated us for over 130 years. His methods are mysterious and complex, but God damn it, he gets results. So what can Baker Street's most famous resident teach us about how we do our most important work? I'm Mark Stedman, and this is Undo. Packing the briar pipe of productivity. Taking a long pull and coughing our guts up all over the lino. Race the rudders. Race the sails. Race the sails. Captain, an unidentified ship is approaching. Over. Roger. Wait. Is that an enterprise sales solution?

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[Mark Stedman]

Foreign.

[Sherlock Holmes]

I'm Matthew Bellringer. I'm a neurodiversity and innovation specialist.

[Mark Stedman]

Matthew helps neurodivergent people work in ways that support them and their unique strengths. For Matthew, Sherlock is a great model for understanding both the gifts of a neurodivergent brain and the challenges that come with it.

[Sherlock Holmes]

Holmes is almost unfunctional without Watson. He can't talk to people properly without offending them. He can't. Like, he can't do half of the stuff he needs to do. He can't turn up in the right place very often. He's like, he needs Watson. And they understand that in their relationship. What I really like about the way that Holmes approaches The world is. He understands where he's strong and where he's weak, and he brings in other people to do that. And he's very willing. What I really enjoy is how clear that boundary is and how it's absolutely a no.

[Mark Stedman]

One of the first things Watson discovers about Holmes is the bizarre gaps in his knowledge. My favorite being that the great detective is completely unaware that the earth moves around the sun and not the other way around. And better still, that knowledge holds absolutely no interest to him because it's not relevant to his work. Now, two things are important to say at this junction. Firstly, Sherlock Holmes is not, no matter how many monuments, societies and walking tours that happen in his name, is not and never was a real person. So let's not dwell too much on whether or not a character who only existed in words that were typeset well over a century ago might or might not have certain neurological traits. But if we assume that he did, what do we really mean by neurodivergence? And what's the difference between neurodivergence and neurodiversity?

[Sherlock Holmes]

Everyone is neurodiverse in the sense that we all differ in terms of our lived experience as a result of differences in neurology. So all of us think and feel and experience the world somewhat differently. However, within that overall variation, some people lie quite significantly outside of the cultural social expectations about how brains are supposed to work or how brains do work. And we tend to call those groups neurodivergent, sometimes neuro, atypical as well, I've seen as well. And that might be associated with a specific diagnosis like adhd, autism, dyspraxia, dyslexia, Tourette's, but it also might not. I mean, it can also just mean fundamentally working from a very different experience. But that's the really important idea. The distinction is. So everyone is neurodiverse at a population level, but no individual can be neurodiverse. That doesn't make sense really. But some people are neurodivergent and have that really quite considerable difference in experience and thinking and feeling on an ongoing basis compared to the way that most people mostly think and feel.

[Mark Stedman]

So the next time your uncle tells you over the dinner table that we're all a bit autistic, aren't we, you can kindly remind him that, no, we're not. But we exist on a spectrum and some people experience the world in some specific ways more than others. So we're not in the business of diagnosing other people. And we'll get onto that in a bit. But we can say that Holmes, as written by Conan Doyle, exhibits traits of both autism and adhd. And I'm going to stick with the word traits here because whether or not you're looking for a formal diagnosis of your own, understanding how you behave and what you need can be really helpful.

[Sherlock Holmes]

Your experience is valid. Your experience of the world is valid. Whether or not you have a diagnosis to back that up, that's the important thing. Whether or not you feel comfortable using the label and other people feel comfortable with you using the label is a slightly different matter. But the most important thing is to know that whatever anyone else says, your experience, the way you experience the world, is true.

[Mark Stedman]

If you find yourself flitting between interests, trying something for a few days or weeks, putting them down, and then looking for the next thing, you might have an experience that tallies with someone that has adhd. One of Holmes special interests for a time was cigarette ash. He wrote the equivalent of a long read blog post listing different types of tobacco ash and how to identify them. A piece of writing he'll mention about as often as a vegan tells you they're vegan. This sort of magpie mind is often drawn to the world of productivity as there's always a new system to try and we can tell ourselves that we're improving our efficiency or getting more organized. And that might be true, but we're also fueling our insatiable need for novelty. Back to Matthew One of the things.

[Sherlock Holmes]

Having a magpie mind having a high novelty seeking need is a very common experience of adhd. It's not a universal experience of adhd and it's not just people with ADHD who have high novelty seeking and that kind of magpie mind shiny thing. So it's useful to be able to kind of understand and I think talking about these as experiences, it's like understanding I experience the world this way is actually a more helpful way very often of working with this stuff than saying I have adhd. And therefore the thing we need to.

[Mark Stedman]

Watch out for if we have that kind of novelty seeking mind is that we don't let playing with a new system get in the way of doing the actual work. It's a refrain that goes back to our discussion on the Bullet Journal method. And if you'll permit me, I'd like to express it like this. A 1, 2, 3, 4. The system you use for organizing your work and your time should be like the rhythm section in a tight band. It literally keeps time and it underpins everything, everything else the band does. Without it, the piece turns to chaos. Rhythm is essential in most music, especially the kind people actually enjoy, rather than the stuff polo necks pretend to like in order to impress other polo necks. But it isn't the star. Occasionally, especially if you see a band live, you want to hear the drummer properly, let it rip all over the kit. But not every piece should sound like the movie Whiplash. Your work, the stuff you're actually on this earth to do, is the melody, and your life is the chords underneath. If you keep changing the tempo or the time signature, you disrupt the other musicians in the band. So sometimes what we have to do is find a system that works well enough for now, even if it's not absolutely perfect, because chances are it won't be. And throwing all your stuff into the newest app or the next trending method is going to leave you knackered. Also, not all systems are created equal.

[Sherlock Holmes]

You know, if I've got the greatest notation system in the world, if I have to copy and paste a ton of stuff every day into that, I'm never going to use that after the honeymoon period because that's going to be that. That's going to become tiresome very quickly. It's very low value work. So it's how does it integrate? How you know, how little maintenance does it need? Because when we start out, when things are fun and novel, the maintenance is fun, but as soon as it gets boring, the maintenance is a chore.

[Mark Stedman]

As someone who keeps trying to move his entire life into notion, I can wholeheartedly agree. I love the idea of the Everything app that can act as my second brain and store all the stuff I need to know and think about. But you'll prime my to do app from my cold dead hands. One of the reasons you might find yourself jumping between different systems is that no one system quite covers all your needs or reflects the way your brain works. So for that we want to create our own individual productivity method. And that's where we start getting all scientific. When Sherlock Holmes approached a new case, he went in curious. He studied the scene of the crime in as much detail as he could. He asked questions of everyone who was there and used his method of deductive reasoning to get to a conclusion. When we read a book like Getting Things Done or Building a Second Brain, we can be tempted to think, right, this is the way forwards. Let's get everything into this system. And then something crops up that doesn't fit that system and gradually things start to fall apart. These self help books are great at showing us just how marvelous and miraculous it can be to organize our lives into these narrative neat little boxes. But if you've ever tried to take a cat to the vet, you'll know just how dangerous it is to try and force a physics defying object into a finite space. So the key is to start with tiny experiments, begin with a hypothesis, a reckon, if you will, and test it out over a period of time.

[Sherlock Holmes]

A lot of services have free trial because they understand you put a ton of effort in, you set it all up how you like it, you're committed, then you're going to pay the subscription fee. So being really, really careful with your experiments, also being clear up front as possible about what it is you're trying.

[Mark Stedman]

To find out, that's the key here. If you're going to try out a new system, what are you hoping to get out of it? Is it meant for you to save time? Is it meant to help you stop forgetting stuff? Is it to help you stick to commitments you've made? If you find after a bit of time that the system you're trying isn't meeting those needs, or it has its own set of needs which get in the way, then you can either discard it entirely or see if there's a little bit you can cherry pick from it and move on. So earlier we talked about diagnosis and whether it's something you want to seek out. And while I'm really glad a lot of people are sharing their experiences online and encouraging others to learn more about themselves, there's a teeny little red flag we need to watch out for. And it turns out that one of.

[Sherlock Holmes]

The main symptoms of ADHD is the.

[Mark Stedman]

Ability to diagnose it in friends and family. So ADHD is working as a pyramid scheme where, yeah, everyone who finds out they've got it, they tell seven to eight people that they've got it. Thank you, Sarah Pascoe. Now, we've talked mostly about ADHD here, but before we crack on, I just wanted to acknowledge that autism has also been in the news in America these past few days. I started work on this episode before RFK Jr, the US health secretary, took to the podium to tell us that autism is a disease caused by an environmental toxin. These are kids who will never pay taxes, they'll never hold a job, they'll never play baseball, they'll never write a poem, they'll never go out on a date, many of them will never use a toilet unassisted. I promise I'm not going to dwell on this or make a whole big thing of It. I just wanted to put it out there as it was in the zeitgeist. Autism isn't the result of some sort of magic gas that's in the air or in vaccines that stop us getting common communicable diseases. We know more people are diagnosed with autism because we've improved our diagnostic criteria, not because there's fluoride in the water or whatever other crackpot theory the Secretary of Health has overheard from someone misremembering a study they found on a Reddit thread. Oh my God, there is so much more I could say, but we're a few minutes from the last time I did a joke. So let's get back on track. As Matthew suggested right at the top of this episode, Holmes was not necessarily the most functional of people, and the intricate workings of those meat sacks didn't come easy to him. Now, I've talked before about the importance of, of other people in our productivity methods, because while it's all well and good protecting your time, we don't exist in a vacuum.

[Sherlock Holmes]

For example, I work to time bounding, but I have a system that is flexible up until all the time is used, and it arranges things so that I've got specific things that I need to do. I don't have a very strong sense of, well, like, yeah, maybe I want to do that one in the afternoon and that one in the morning, but each one of those takes an hour. So it kind of doesn't matter when people book in, as long as I get those done within bounds. So having a system with a bit of flex in it is really, really helpful because that then allows other people to flex a bit. And this is one of the risks of really complicated systems is they can be quite brittle if yet they encounter something unexpected for you as well. And I've seen people fall out of entire systems because they had one. You know, they're like, if you, if it feels like it's all going to break, if you miss one day and you're going to be irrecoverable, that's going to happen at some point. At some point the day is going to get beyond your control. That's just life. So if the system can't deal with that kind of, with your own needs and flexibility as well, and it all falls to pieces, then that system is over complicated and too brittle.

[Mark Stedman]

Holmes had his mind palace, Watson his notebook. Each of us has a way of keeping track and keeping time. And the key is to find the best possible option or the least bad combination of options that works for us, and to remember that life is going to rattle the bars of your system. When Holmes wasn't occupied with a case, he took recreational drugs because he just needed that altered state. His mind was a terrifying hall of mirrors as much as it was a palace, but thankfully he had Watson as his support structure. Whatever you're undertaking in life, whatever your big work is, or the work you'd rather be doing than paying the bills, make sure you've got someone to lean on. Systems are flexible up to a point, but people will always provide more support. Undo is written and produced by me, Mark Stedman. My special guest this week is Matthew Bellringer and you can check check out their [e-mail] a link is in the show notes. Also, I spoke with Matthew for about an hour so you can hear the full interview if you sign up to become a member of if you sign up to become a member of our [e-mail] undo podcast, you can stop off here and go about your day, or stay after this brief break to hear me talk about my relationship with Sherlock Holmes and his many incarnations.

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[Mark Stedman]

So as is, you know, possibly becoming apparent here, neurodivergence is something that I'm increasingly interested in and have been interested in for the last few years, both, you know, for myself and for others and those around me. I think it's interesting to look at at this through the world of traits, though I think one of the things I really appreciate about the conversation with Matthew is how we talked about traits and so you don't necessarily have to go and seek a diagnosis in Order for you to say, well, my experience of the world tallies in certain ways with this set of experiences that these people seem to have. And that may be all that's useful to you. If you then find that there's medication or there's other support that you want to access, then, yeah, a diagnosis can help if you want the. You know, there's talk of how labels can be problematic, but sometimes labels can be useful because it can give you a context, not an excuse for your behavior. Because we all, you know, we all as people want to take responsibility for our behavior, but it's a way at least of contextualizing it and understanding it. I seem to really react in this way because perhaps this particular need is not met. That's one of the things that I found really helpful. You know, I don't work in an office anymore. Well, I work in a co working space. And even then I know when I'm getting frustrated. I know when that loud person is being way too loud. I know that's me. That's me having the problem. And previously when I, when I had a day job and I worked in an office, I would get so wound up and so frustrated because to me, the outside world was the problem. It wasn't the way that I was processing. It doesn't mean it's my fault, but it was my processing of the outside stimulus. You know, I'm trying to work on a particular problem. I can't have music because it's too distracting. But these conversations over here, these several meetings that are happening in this open plan office that's lovely and cool. It's just too difficult and jarring a thing to be able to actually get any real work done. And there were a couple of times where I kind of like blew up a little bit. And that's because I didn't have the language to say I need to go elsewhere or I need to be somewhere else, or I need to figure this out because other people seem to be fine and that's great, they're doing their thing. But I'm having a really bad time of it here. And instead of me thinking like, I need to change, it's just saying, well, I have certain needs. In order for me to, to get my work done, I need to meet those needs. And it's on me to do that, or it's on me to have a conversation with my boss or whoever's around to say, in order for me to work at my best, this is the sort of thing I need and to hope that people are going to be understanding. And I think, you know, in the year of our Lord 2025, we are a lot better at that. RFK junior discourse aside. So one of the things that I'm kind of interested in doing is, so I have a little company that I'm in the process of spinning up at the moment. And one of the things that we're looking to do is run some community projects. And one of those that I'm really keen to run is a little group, a little support group of people who are either seeking diagnosis for a neurodivergence condition, whether it's adhd, ADHD or possibly dyspraxia, dyslexia maybe, certainly autism, those kinds of things, where there is an experience of the world that maybe for a while they've been thinking, am I the only one who feels like this, or is it weird that I feel like this? So that if they're in that limbo of diagnosis, which I think I had a lovely conversation about this with a friend a couple of days ago, actually, that sort of diagnosis, limbo, and I think also whether you're not necessarily seeking diagnosis, but you feel like your experience is tally with other people having a space to have those conversations, to, you know, to actually ask the questions like, is it weird that? Or just to vent, you know, the frustration of this is what life is like at the moment. And. And, you know, I've put my paperwork in and it could be years before I hear anything or get any kind of formal support. So it's one of the things that I'm keen to do and I'd love to know if that's anything you've encountered. Hellondo FM is the. Is the email address. Do feel free to drop me a note on that one. Completely coincidentally, to my conversation with Matthew, I've been reading Sherlock Holmes books at the moment, so it was so lovely when they sort of said that, that the Sherlock was. Was someone that. That they not necessarily emulate, but sort of hold in some esteem as a character because of the way their brain works. And it just so happened that recently I've gone on a real Sherlock kick because I'm like, I think I probably really enjoy the stories, honestly, if I'm, you know, if I'm completely honest. The Hound of the Baskervilles is the only story of Holmes as I really knew. And Having watched the TV show as well, the 2010 sort of modernization of it, with the, with the bomba, with the bomber snatch, you know, that was kind of my own. My only real relationship with, with Holmes. And so I've started on the, on the definitive collection and I'm having a great old time. And it's, it's interesting to me how the character is very different. So the 2010 Sherlock, which I think is such a great adaptation, he's played as a sociopath and really it's a very different character from the Holmes that we know in the original books. The Holmes in the original books is actually often quite kind and he's not the. Yes, he's like fascinated by puzzles and wants to solve all the puzzles and stuff, but he's also empathetic and he's like, he's, he's kind to people, which is kind of at odds with what we think about the, the trope of the autistic detective. Right. And I think that kind of trope, that's been the thing for the last 15 years of sort of, you know, Scandi drama and kind of noir things. You know, Girl with a Dragon Tattoo doesn't actually have any detectives. Well, it does, but they're not vocal. But, you know, all those, the Killing and all those kinds of dramas, the Bridge, like, they're all that same kind of idea. And so it's, you know, it's interesting that actually the sort of original consulting detective, as you read him in the books, yes, he's got his character flaws and his faults, but actually he's a good deal more empathetic and like I said, kind of decent and moral and kind to the people, if not sometimes a little condescending in a sort of 19th century way, but a lot more. He has a lot more of those traits than, you know, the high functioning sociopath that we get in the adaptations from 2010. But I'm having fun with it. I'm also having fun with sort of tiny experiments at the moment and trying a few things out myself and trying to. And I think I may have mentioned this last week, just not getting too attached to things, just checking a few things out, seeing what happens if I lift this lid, if I press this button, pull this lever. And it's quite fun to sort of knock around like that rather than really hope for a specific outcome. So listen, I tend to wang on too much in these, in these segments, so I'm going to leave it there. I am going to thank you so much for listening and to suggest if you. Since you've made it this far and if you haven't already, do sign up for, for our patreon patreon.com undo podcast. You get ad free episodes of the podcast, but you also get extra stuff like the full interview with Matthew Bellringer and some other bits and pieces that go on. You know, I post questions and little thoughts. We've got a little community space there where you can come and hang out and have a chat. If you want to suggest episode titles, things that we should discuss, then you can do all of that over on patreon.com undo podcast. You can support the show for as little as $3 a month, and that just helps helps me recoup some of my time. I enjoy doing this immensely and it's, it's also a way that you and I can hang out a bit more should that interest you. Right. I will let you go on about your week. Have a marvelous week and I will chat to you again next Monday. Hey everyone, this is Cory and Carly, the hosts of the surviving Sister Wives podcast.

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[Mark Stedman]

And after all the joy and drama, they hit the hot seat and answer the questions we've been begging to know. Sister Wives all new Sunday at 10 on TLC.

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