Unexplainable (Vox)

Episode: How to Change Your Personality

Air Date: September 29, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode of Unexplainable dives into the scientific mysteries behind personality change, featuring a crossover interview from Vox’s The Gray Area hosted by John Iley. The guest, Olga Hazan – staff writer at The Atlantic and author of "Me, But Better: The Science and Promise of Personality Change" – discusses her year-long quest to actively change aspects of her own personality, blending personal anecdotes with the latest research on the Big Five traits, the psychology of self-improvement, and the realistic limits of transformation.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining Personality

• Personality: Defined by Hazan as “the consistent thoughts and behaviors that you have every day” (04:05).
• Personality traits are tendencies; while we may ‘perform’ different traits situationally, most people have underlying patterns that are relatively stable (04:52).
• Big Five Model: The episode centers on the Big Five: neuroticism, extraversion, agreeableness, openness to experience, and conscientiousness (06:11).

2. The Performance vs. Core Nature of Personality

• Hazan explains how people often “perform” traits (e.g., acting extroverted in a job interview despite being an introvert), yet fall back to their natural patterns unless intentionally trying to change (04:52–06:11).

3. Why Change?

• Hazan sought to adjust her “high neuroticism” and deepen social connections, emphasizing that self-love and self-improvement can coexist (07:39).
• Catalyzing moment: a series of minor frustrations (bad haircut, traffic) led to a meltdown, highlighting how her reactions undermined her ability to enjoy life (08:05).

4. The Nature of Neuroticism & Catastrophizing

• Catastrophizing—seeing threats everywhere—is a signature pattern of neuroticism, often leading to chronic anxiety and dissatisfaction (09:55).
• Quote: “The reason you’re catastrophizing is not because … you’re silly or … not realistic, but because you kind of can see the threats coming from every direction” – Hazan (09:55).

5. Agreeableness and Boundaries

• Too much agreeableness can lead to people-pleasing and poor boundaries; personal growth can involve learning to say no as much as it involves increasing warmth and empathy (12:52).

6. Challenges in Changing Traits

• Hazan found neuroticism the hardest to change; meditation and mindfulness help, but can feel unnatural or even threatening to those who see anxiety as motivational (13:56–14:44).
• “I think that like anxiety is protective, at least for me. Like it … is like the fire under me.” – Hazan (14:44)

7. Does Personality Change With Age or Effort?

• Personality is not “set like plaster” at 30—research shows that people change naturally over time, often becoming less neurotic and open as they age (23:03).
• Intentional change: interventions can prompt personality shifts beyond natural drift (23:03–24:20).

8. Limits and Possibilities of Change

• Genetic baseline is real, but “tinkering at the margins” can lead to significant improvements—a la Dan Harris’s “10% Happier” (26:04–26:06).
• Behavioral traits (e.g., conscientiousness) are easiest to change by acting the part—“fake it till you make it” (28:41–28:55).

9. Interventions for Change

• Extroversion: Signing up for structured social activities (e.g., improv) provides accountability and effectively pushes comfort zones (29:54–30:08).
• Conscientiousness: Start by decluttering before creating new organizational systems (36:55).
• Neuroticism: Meditation and mindfulness courses, even when difficult, proved helpful in reducing depression and anxiety (15:14–16:58).
• “The class that I took … had a lot of Buddhist teachings … that was, weirdly, very helpful to me.” – Hazan (15:24)
• The ACT acronym: Accept your negative feelings, Commit to your values, Take action—a useful, practical approach for long-term change (37:49–38:35).

10. Knowing When to Stop Trying to Change

• Persistence is good, but knowing when a change isn’t authentic or valuable is crucial. Hazan quit running a foreign film meetup when it brought no joy, contrasting with the positive discomfort of improv (33:29–34:35).

11. Value of Negative Traits

• Some degree of neuroticism or anxiety can be adaptive—e.g., motivating careful parenting or driving preparation (35:06).

12. Agency, Belief, and the Motivation to Change

• Belief in your own capacity to change is a “fundamental precondition.” If you don’t believe change is possible, you’re unlikely to try (39:13–39:28).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Neuroticism:

  “The reason you’re catastrophizing is not because ... you're silly or ... not realistic, but because you kind of can see the threats coming from every direction.”
  – Olga Hazan (09:55)

• On Change:

  “A lot of therapy is basically just tinkering at the margins.”
  – Olga Hazan (25:14)

• On Faking It:

  “Fake it till you make it is a reasonable way to do personality change.”
  – Olga Hazan, paraphrasing researcher Nate Hudson (28:55)

• On the Role of Anxiety:

  “Anxiety is in some ways a way of caring.”
  – Olga Hazan (35:06)

• On Agency:

  “If that’s truly what you think, you probably aren’t going to try to change and you probably won’t change. There does have to be ... some fundamental openness to ... change in order to even ... embark on something like this.”
  – Olga Hazan (39:28)

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Topic | Timestamp | |--------------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------|------------| | Definition of personality| Hazan describes “consistent thoughts and behaviors” | 04:05 | | Performance vs true self | How much is “performed,” how much is innate | 04:52 | | Big Five overview | The five key personality traits outlined | 06:11 | | Hazan’s motivation | Why she sought to change, key triggering anecdote | 07:39–09:35| | Nature of neuroticism | Catastrophizing, threat perception explained | 09:55 | | Limits of agreeableness | Warmth vs boundaries discussion | 12:52 | | Most difficult to change | Hazan on neuroticism, mindfulness struggle | 13:56 | | How personality changes | Age, intention, margin improvements | 23:03–26:06| | Behavior change tactics | “Fake it till you make it,” improv anecdote | 28:41–30:08| | When not to change | Quitting the film club example | 33:29–34:35| | Value in negative traits | The usefulness of anxiety, personal and professional | 35:06 | | Agency and change | Need for belief in the possibility of change | 39:13–39:28|

Practical Takeaways

• Action precedes identity: Acting in new ways (joining improv, decluttering) can drive internal change.
• Accountability matters: Structured, time-bound commitments outperform vague intentions for behavioral shifts.
• Mindfulness helps, but isn’t a cure-all: Particularly valuable for reducing reactivity, but may feel unnatural to high-anxiety individuals.
• Aim for progress, not perfection: Small “margin” changes can drastically improve well-being.
• Both acceptance and effort: Self-acceptance and improvement are not mutually exclusive.
• Belief and openness are prerequisites: You must believe change is possible to initiate it.

Episode Tone

The conversation is candid, self-reflective, and gently humorous—with Hazan’s vulnerability and honesty contrasting with John Iley’s self-deprecating remarks about his own neuroticism. The tone is neither dryly scientific nor oversold with self-help enthusiasm, instead keeping the focus on evidence-based optimism and realism about what can—and can’t—be changed.

For further exploration, see: "Me, But Better: The Science and Promise of Personality Change" by Olga Hazan [Referenced multiple times, 40:03].