Is everything inflammation?

Summary

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Unexplainable (Vox)

Episode: Is everything inflammation?
Date: April 22, 2026
Host: Sally Helm
Guest: Dylan Scott, Health Reporter at Vox

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Main Theme & Purpose

This episode investigates the pervasive role of “inflammation” in health, exploring why the concept has become so central in popular culture and scientific discourse. Host Sally Helm speaks with Vox health reporter Dylan Scott about what inflammation actually is, the science behind it, and why it's so often blamed for almost every modern health concern—from heart disease to fatigue to aging. The episode aims to clarify truth from hype amid social media wellness trends and evolving medical understanding.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Inflammation in Popular Culture — The Ubiquitous Culprit

• Opening Context: Sally shares how searching for explanations for everyday feelings of malaise (like tiredness) on TikTok often leads to the answer: "inflammation."
  • Quote (01:33, Narrator/VO): “Inflammation is the root of all disease.”
  • Sally recounts the proliferation of "simple fixes" (turmeric, black pepper, intermittent fasting, etc.) and asks if this hype has any scientific basis.
• Dylan’s Take: While it's a serious research topic, inflammation has invaded wellness influencer circles as a “catch-all culprit” for many ills.
  • Quote (05:33, Dylan Scott): “People, they talk about it with such confidence... Here is the elixir, the solution that will help to reduce your chronic inflammation.”

2. What Is Inflammation, Really?

• The Fire Analogy (06:13–07:35):
  • The word evokes burning and destruction, but fire is both necessary and dangerous—a useful metaphor for inflammation.
  • Quote (06:39, Dylan Scott): “It's a very evocative term... But I think we have to remember that our relationship to fire is complicated.”
• Definition: It’s the immune system’s response to potential harm—sending immune cells and chemicals to defeat invaders (like viruses or bacteria) or heal injuries (07:44–08:31).
  • Acute inflammation is healthy and visible—think redness, swelling, fever.
  • Chronic inflammation is invisible and can be harmful.
• Invisible Types (09:49–11:40):
  • Homeostatic inflammation: “Routine maintenance” at the molecular level, e.g., muscle repair after exercise.
  • Chronic low-grade inflammation: Persists beyond normal needs. Associated with aging and many diseases.

3. Why Are We More Inflamed Now? Modernity’s Role

• Evolutionary Perspective (12:46–14:55):
  • Our immune systems evolved for shorter lifespans and high infection risk; today, we live longer and face new challenges.
  • Quote (12:46, Dylan Scott): “There is increasingly evidence that it is modernity itself, our industrialized lifestyles, that are at least contributing to this rise in chronic, low-grade inflammation...”
  • Chronic inflammation may just be the “tradeoff for a longer life.”
• Industrialization and Lifestyle Factors (15:07–19:36):
  • Pollution, synthetic chemicals, ultra-processed foods, and continual modern exposures “agitate” the immune system into a chronic, unresolved defensive state.
  • Quote (17:29, Dylan Scott): “You can't escape it. We live inside of modernity... There’s this constant exposure to things that your immune system doesn't recognize and doesn't know what to do with... an endless loop that continues to drive this inflammation over time and eventually does lead to tissue damage.”

4. Is Inflammation Behind Every Disease? Science Says...

• Which diseases are linked? (22:06–23:07)
  • Clearer links: Heart disease, cancer, diabetes, Alzheimer’s/dementia.
  • The evidence is sometimes murky—is inflammation causing the disease, or is it a symptom?
  • Quote (22:06, Dylan Scott): “With heart disease, there does seem to be a pretty clear relationship... But oftentimes, there is that question of: is inflammation causing this chronic health problem, or is it a symptom?”
• Boundaries of understanding:
  • We lack clear baselines for what is a “normal” level of inflammation.
  • New “immune monitoring programs” are trying to establish these (23:27–25:34).

5. The Future: Measuring and Managing Inflammation

• Inflammation Score (25:46–26:29):
  • Researchers envision a day when inflammation can be tracked like cholesterol or blood pressure, enabling early intervention.
  • For now, we're in the “number soup world”—we know certain biomarkers but can’t reliably interpret them.
  • Quote (26:29, Dylan Scott): “The hope is that this will become something almost like cholesterol, where you can go in, you can measure it... and maybe help prevent future health problems.”

6. What (If Anything) Can You Do About It?

• Hype vs. Reality (26:46–29:32):
  • There are evidence-based ways to reduce inflammation: healthy, whole-food diet, regular exercise, managing stress.
    • Quote (27:05, Dylan Scott): “It’s the old standby, Sally: eating a healthy diet, especially whole foods, vegetables, fruits, exercise... stress”
  • Beware unproven or overpromised “solutions” and supplement hypes marketed on social media.
  • The desire for quick answers and “miracle cures” outpaces what science reliably knows.
  • Quote (28:04, Dylan Scott): “There's a lot of unscrupulous people who are willing to sell those to you and who are presenting more confidence about what you can understand... than, like, actual scientists would say is appropriate.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Sally Helm, on the appeal of the inflammation narrative:
  • (12:10) “I can see why it’s a concept that people are gravitating towards because it’s just like, something in the world is leaving us in this constant state of being a little bit agitated and...overheated.”
• Dylan Scott, on wellness trends:
  • (05:33) “People, they talk about it with such confidence. Like, it’s quick...here is the elixir, the solution that will help to reduce your chronic inflammation.”
• On evolutionary mismatch:
  • (12:46) “There is increasingly evidence that it is modernity itself... contributing to this rise in chronic low-grade inflammation...”
• On uncertainty in measurement:
  • (25:34) “Right now...you’ll see them hawked on these social media feeds of like, inflammation tests...yes, we can measure certain proteins, but interpreting that...is much murkier as the science stands today.”
• On stress about inflammation:
  • (27:28, Sally Helm) “Do you think it’s possible that we’re causing more inflammation by stressing about inflammation?”
  • (27:28, Dylan Scott) “It would make sense, yes, it makes some sense...”

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:12–02:45: Sally discovers TikTok’s inflammation paranoia and supplement solutions.
• 06:13–07:35: Metaphor of inflammation as fire—necessary vs. destructive.
• 09:49–11:40: Types of inflammation—acute, homeostatic, chronic low-grade.
• 12:46–14:55: Modernity and evolutionary perspectives on chronic inflammation.
• 15:07–19:36: How changes in environment, food, and pollution drive chronic inflammation.
• 22:06–23:27: Which diseases are truly linked to inflammation.
• 23:27–25:34: Challenges of measuring and interpreting inflammation.
• 26:46–27:20: Evidence-based ways to reduce inflammation.
• 28:04–29:32: Cautions against overhyped treatments and measurement tools.

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Episode Takeaway

The idea that “everything is inflammation” is seductive—and not entirely groundless. Chronic low-grade inflammation, likely stoked by modern lifestyles (processed foods, pollution, longer lifespans), does seem connected to many chronic illnesses. However, science is still catching up: we lack clear ways to measure, diagnose, and intervene in chronic inflammation, despite what wellness influencers may promise. For now, the best advice is old advice: whole foods, exercise, stress management—and skepticism toward easy quick fixes. As Dylan Scott puts it, “People are kind of rushing in to provide answers that are beyond what science has actually learned and figured out yet” (29:07).

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Summary by Unexplainable Podcast Summarizer

Transcript

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[Sally Helm]

Sometimes I just wanna know what is wrong. Like why am I so tired? Why does life feel so hard? And I have come to learn that if you address that question not to your sister or your therapist, but instead to TikTok, you can get a blessedly simple answer.

[Narrator/Voiceover]

Inflammation is the root of all disease,

[Dylan Scott]

the root cause of almost all chronic illnesses and aging itself.

[Sally Helm]

To hear some people tell it, inflammation is the cause of basically everything. Like all of the problems with our health.

[Dylan Scott]

Heart disease, diabetes, Alzheimer's disease, even some

[Narrator/Voiceover]

forms of cancer, acne, eczema, hair loss, hormonal issues, pms, bloating, irregular bowel movements.

[Dylan Scott]

You can actually look better, look younger, feel better. Everything gets better when we lower inflammation.

[Sally Helm]

Are you worried? Because don't worry, there are also tips.

[Dylan Scott]

First is supplements. Curcumin is extremely anti inflammatory. Cinnamons, Very anti inflammatory. Tip number two, consider taking a break from food. Number three, more fit.

[Sally Helm]

Okay, and now I am confused because it sounds like I'm supposed to eat a lot of fish sprinkled with curcumin, which I don't actually know what that is.

[Dylan Scott]

The main active ingredient in turmeric is curcumin.

[Sally Helm]

Okay, great.

[Dylan Scott]

Which on its own is not easily absorbed by your body.

[Sally Helm]

Uh oh, enter black pepper.

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Specifically pepperine.

[Sally Helm]

Okay, check. But then I'm also supposed to not eat food.

[Narrator/Voiceover]

The ancient practice of intermittent fasting can

[Sally Helm]

also help lower inflammation in the body. And I'm probably also supposed to buy something. Together they really create this potent extract in this bottle. At this point, I'm like, as much as I wanted a nice, simple explanation, this just can't be real. Like, inflammation cannot be the root of all diseases. But then I came across a recent big piece by my colleague at Vox Health reporter Dylan Scott. And the science in this piece, it was really surprising to me because it sounds like there is something to the idea that chronic inflammation may be behind many of the diseases of modern life. But it also sounds like we've demonized inflammation without pausing to ask what it's good for. It's unexplainable. I'm Sally Helm and today I ask Dylan Scott, what is inflammation and what is it about the way we're living life that is causing something healthy and natural to creep further and further until it becomes bad for us? Dylan Scott. Hello.

[Dylan Scott]

Hi, Sally.

[Sally Helm]

All right, Dylan. I have seen many, many different TikToks about inflammation and how it's perhaps causing like every single health problem in our lives. And I am curious, like, before you started looking into this, did you see those, Is that what sent you on this journey?

[Dylan Scott]

Absolutely. Like, I, I love something that's sort of at the intersection of there is like a genuine scientific question underlying all of this. Like, this is a serious topic that a lot of, you know, well, credentialed researchers are spending their time looking into. But at the same time, it's sort of infiltrated the wellness influencer subculture that defines so much of how we talk about health these days. And it has become a catch all culprit for a lot of different health conditions. And you've also got people out there talking about, you know, diets or supplements or some kind of other interventions that you can take to try to reduce your quote unquote inflammation.

[Sally Helm]

Do you have any favorites or least favorites?

[Dylan Scott]

CMOS has become a fixation for some people. Like people on TikTok.

[Sally Helm]

It sounds so specific that I'm like, okay, let's do it. Maybe it works right well.

[Dylan Scott]

And people, they talk about it with such confidence. Like that is the weird, like, allure of, you know, a lot of this wellness content on social media is because, yeah, it's like, it's quick, it's, you know, whatever, a 90 second video, it's digestible. And they're like, here, here is the elixir, the solution that will help to reduce your chronic inflammation. I think any of us would be like, well, that, those, that sounds appealing, I'd like to try that out.

[Sally Helm]

But as you've already said, Dylan, like This is not just TikTok nonsense.

[Dylan Scott]

Right.

[Sally Helm]

Like, the thing about inflammation is that there is this real body of evidence suggesting that there's something important to think about here.

[Dylan Scott]

Yeah.

[Sally Helm]

So let's get into it. I actually want to start here in the realm of language, because this word inflammation, it's such a powerful word, maybe even a little too powerful, because it contains this feeling of fire within it. And I just want to start by asking you, like, is that the right metaphor for inflammation?

[Dylan Scott]

I completely agree with you. Like, it's a very evocative term that gives you this image of your body being ablaze. But I do think, like, fire is, I think, in some ways an appropriate metaphor for what inflammation does. But I think we have to remember that our relationship to fire is complicated. Like, fire is certainly a destructive force at times, but it can also be a cleansing force. Like, fire is natural. Even, like, you know, huge forests need fire sometimes to sweep through and clean things up and allow something new to grow on top of it. And I think it's similar with inflammation, where we have a complicated relationship to it. Some level of inflammation is absolutely necessary for our bodies to function as they should. But much like fire, too much of it can start to cause serious problems. Problems.

[Sally Helm]

I do feel like I need to ask a kind of basic question before we go much further here, which is, Dylan, what is inflammation?

[Dylan Scott]

In essence, inflammation is your immune system going into attack mode and either sending, like, immunity cells or other kinds of chemicals that your body can release to try to get rid of some outside invader that your body perceives as having infiltrated it and wants to get rid of to keep you healthy. And so, obviously, if that outside invader is a cold virus or the influenza virus or some bacteria or something like that, like, that's what we call acute inflammation. And that's, you know, that's something that we've known about for ages. Even, like, ancient doctors knew that, like, the body goes into some kind of response when you get sick, and it's

[Sally Helm]

like, okay, great, yes, get it gone. I don't want that in there.

[Dylan Scott]

That's exactly. I mean, yeah, for this kind of acute, acute inflammation that we're talking about in response to a virus or a bacteria or a wound, you know, back in the ancient times that you might have gotten on the battlefield or something, you know, the red skin or puffy skin that can surround a wound and, like, it can be painful, it can feel hot, but at the same time, that is like your body responding to a problem and trying to fix it. And so, I mean my sense is that like the word developed because like it has these literal associations with heat. But I do think it, it, it's created this problem unintentionally where it just sounds like something negative. Inflammation sounds like something that you want to get rid of. And it certainly like put me in a different mind space when I learned that like, oh no, like inflammation is, you know, it's your body repairing itself. Like that sounds positive, but it's not maybe like where your mind naturally goes when you hear the word inflammation.

[Sally Helm]

I mean, and what you're saying like cold, virus, wound, we've like felt and seen that. Like I can imagine my throat being swollen if I have a cold. But the scary thing is that it sounds like there's this secret other inflammation that can happen where it's just like invisible, microscopic, in your whole body. Tell me about that. Is that the bad one?

[Dylan Scott]

So as one of the scientists I talked to for my story put it, like every cell in your body can experience inflammation.

[Sally Helm]

Oh God.

[Dylan Scott]

And a lot of that inflammation to your point, is happen at the molecular level that we're never going to be able to perceive with our own eyes. But even there, even with this invisible type of inflammation, there's a good kind and there's a bad kind. So once again, it's more complicated than you might think. There's first like what scientists call homeostatic inflammation. And this is basically like your body doing routine maintenance. Like your cells, we don't like to stop and think about this, but like, you know, they're degrading slowly over time. Your body's stepping in all the time, make repairs.

[Sally Helm]

And I'm even thinking like, I guess if you like lift weights or work out or something, like, do you.

[Dylan Scott]

Exactly.

[Sally Helm]

Well, we want that. I mean, we need that type of thing.

[Dylan Scott]

Yes, exactly. When you work out, when you lift weights, your muscles tear, they're injured basically. And part of the reason that you get stronger is because then inflammation takes hold. It repairs those muscles and it repairs them back stronger than they were before. I mean, that's the essence of strength training. So that is exactly that kind of inflammation at the invisible level that's desirable. That's just a part of your body functioning as it's supposed to. The third kind of inflammation and this other kind of invisible inflammation is what we're concerned about. And I've come to think of it as this like chronic low grade inflammation that is above those routine maintenance levels that is not like sort of your body's normal homeostatic state of being. And that kind of inflammation, which can persist over a long period of time, is the kind of inflammation that scientists and physicians are worried about, that we're beginning to realize can be associated with a wide range of health problems.

[Sally Helm]

All right, so I'm just recapping.

[Dylan Scott]

Sure.

[Sally Helm]

Inflammation happens when your body goes into like defense mode and your immune system sends blood containing like chemicals to help fight pathogens or heal a wound. And I can imagine why blood flowing to an area could lead to redness and swelling and heat and all those things. But it sounds like the concern is that being in constant defense mode like this can actually cause its own problems.

[Dylan Scott]

Yeah.

[Sally Helm]

And that is chronic inflammation. And okay, honestly Dylan, I can see why it is a concept that people are gravitating towards because it's just like something in the world is leaving us in this constant state of being a little bit agitated and like a little bit overheated. And that just kind of feels true to me. But I want to dig in on whether it is true. Like what, what is going on here? So tell me first, like, what causes chronic inflammation?

[Dylan Scott]

So I do think that your idea of sort of our bodies being agitated is really appropriate because there is increasingly evidence that it is modernity itself are industrialized lifestyles that are at least contributing to this rise in chronic low grade inflammation that leads to chronic health problems over time. It was easily the most interesting thing that I learned in reporting out this story. I mean, if you think about human beings and our immune system, like those are things that develop over these really long timelines, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of years. And when you think back to, you know, hundreds of thousands of years ago, when modern humans were developing and their immune systems were evolving, we didn't live very long. And so like any kind of problem of like, you know, well, your inflammation is starting to slowly increase over time. Like had a pretty finite and point, if you're not living past 40, it's not really going to become that much of a concern. And at the same time, we were living in a world where there are all kind of pathogens out there, there are viruses and bacterias as well as like, you know, physical risks that our body is confronting all of the time. And we didn't have any kind of medical interventions to try to address it. So basically like our immune systems evolved for pretty short lifespans compared to how long we live today. And, and a really high infection risk compared to what we face today. An unfortunate byproduct of our longevity is that our bodies do experience more inflammation over time.

[Sally Helm]

I mean, and that's interesting just to pause you quickly, Dylan, because that is kind of another example of like, it sounds bad, but maybe it's good. Like in that explanation of chronic inflammation, it's like, well, it's a trade off for a longer life.

[Dylan Scott]

Yeah, there's a lot of these things all kind. Honestly, Sally, like all kinds of chronic health conditions are at least in part, a byproduct of the fact that we live longer and our bodies just have more time for these problems to develop.

[Sally Helm]

Okay, I am hearing you that aging is a part of what's going on here. But can you go back to what you were saying at the beginning about the role that modernity might be playing here?

[Dylan Scott]

So there does seem to be this role of industrialization, pollution, changes to our food production that is also playing a role in driving this chronic inflammation problem. In addition to aging, we don't face nearly as many infection risks from like viruses or bacterias as we used to because we have modern sanitation and modern hygiene. But we are still being like exposed to all kinds of stuff like pollution and synthetic chemicals in our clothes. And our immune system's natural response to that is to kick in the inflammation and try to respond to it. But the thing is like, it's not necessarily that there's like a virus or bacteria or this sort of like short term health problem that our inflammation is able to respond to and then resolve. Instead it's just this, you know, this, this miasma that we're living inside of that we're being exposed to all the time. And I do think it kind of not just agitates our immune system, but it's causes our immune system to go a little bit haywire.

[Sally Helm]

Wow. Okay, so this is getting complicated, Dylan, because I think what you're saying to me is that we already talked about those two types of kind of systemic inflammation. One helps us stay at homeostasis. It like helps us kind of just respond to the stuff that's coming at us all the time and heal and move on. And one is like chronic inflammation. This like slightly elevated, but it doesn't need to be type of inflammation. And that one can cause disease, can cause all kinds of trouble. And it sounds like what you're saying to me is that like, maybe in the evolutionary past it would have been one, and now it's the other. Like in the evolutionary past this type of inflammation would have been necessary. Like we would have been fighting all these pathogens. So heating up a little would have killed the Bacteria and we would have moved on, but now it's almost like we're heating up a little bit. But it doesn't kill the plastic piece or whatever that's floating in our body. The plastic piece or whatever is just in our body.

[Dylan Scott]

And you're continually being exposed to it, right?

[Sally Helm]

Yeah. So it doesn't solve a problem. It just leaves us in a sort of slightly agitated, inflamed state. And then that causes other problems. That's what's going on.

[Dylan Scott]

Right?

[Sally Helm]

Whoa.

[Dylan Scott]

And I mean, I think like thinking about the food supply in particular is maybe helpful here. Like to simplify a very complicated story. Like our food production has come completely changed, like within the last century. Like if we're talking about these long evolutionary timelines for our immune system to adjust and adapt like we have, we have sent a shock to the system just in like the last hundred years with the advent of, you know, mass agriculture and things like ultra processed foods. And when you think about the ways that this kind of chronic low grade inflammation continues to persist, like every day you're eating some kind of, you know, maybe even despite our best efforts, you're eating some kind of new ultra processed food, or you're eating more sugar than is naturally healthy, or maybe more fat, especially if you live in the United States. And so your body goes into this response to try to do something about it. But like, how can. There's nothing to resolve. The next day you're gonna eat something again that's once again gonna continue to perturb your immune system and start these up inflammatory responses. And so, yeah, it's like you can't escape it. Like we live inside of modernity. Like you step outside and there is like air pollution. You know, like, look at our clothes and they have these new synthetic chemicals that do inevitably seep into our skin and into our bodies a little bit. And then especially with food and food processing, like there's just this constant exposure to things that your immune system doesn't recognize and doesn't know what to do with and thinks that it wants to get rid of, but it never can because that exposure is continual and constantly renewed. And so I think that's, I hope that's sort of a, a helpful way of thinking about how like your body is doing something that's natural in response to these unnatural exposures. But it's sort of an endless cycle, an endless loop that continues to drive this inflammation over time and eventually does lead to tissue damage and some of the more serious health problems that we worry about.

[Sally Helm]

Yes, I mean, I have heard of absolutely 1 million things that seem to be caused or worsened by inflammation. Like, the range is huge. So what do we actually know about whether inflammation is contributing to all of these diseases and health problems?

[Dylan Scott]

Yeah, so there's, I do think this is, it's important to pause and say like, this is where a lot of science is happening, like right now.

[Sally Helm]

After the break, Dylan tells me about the work that is happening to find the line where healthy cleansing fire turns dangerous. Girl.

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[Sally Helm]

All right, so Dylan Scott told me the science on this is evolving. But some serious health conditions do seem to be at least associated with chronic inflammation.

[Dylan Scott]

There's heart disease, cancer, diabetes, Alzheimer's and dementia. Those are, I think, the most, the most studied and the most commonly cited ones. And with something like heart disease, there does seem to be a pretty clear, you know, relationship. But this picture is still, still coming into focus. And oftentimes there is like a question of is inflammation causing this chronic health problem or is inflammation a symptom of this chronic health problem that's being driven by other factors? You know, mechanistically, which direction are things moving? Is, is at times something that scientists are still in the midst of Figuring out and, and can be murky to them even. So I, I want to be clear about that, but on a variety of things, be a pretty strong relationship. And I do think that's why, for totally natural reasons, people hear that and they're like, okay, what can I do to prevent that and get rid of this thing that's gonna cause me all of these problems.

[Sally Helm]

But it's interesting, I mean, we're back in the quagmire we've been in the whole time. Cause you're also saying we still don't totally know when it's a symptom of disease and when it might be tipping into this chronic inflammation that causes disease. I mean, Dylan, how can I sort that out? Like, how can I know when it becomes chronic inflammation?

[Dylan Scott]

Look, it's a great question and we know at certain extremes, like if you have, you know, an enormous amount of some kind of inflammation related biomarker, like that probably means there's an underlying problem. But we're still in the process of establishing baselines for what's normal. There's something called immune monitoring programs at major health systems around the country. And basically what they are trying to do is establish, establish those baselines, collecting samples from all kinds of different people, collecting them from people over time, from people, you know, before they got sick, while they got sick, after they got sick, to try to just figure out at the most basic level, like what is normal and what is normal for different kinds of people. Like, you know, if you went into your primary care doctor right now and said, like, what's my inflammation? I think they would just sort of like look at you like, huh, what are you talking about? And you probably wouldn't even necessarily think to ask that because all of this is so new in a lot of ways. But it does seem possible that we're working towards a future where we figured out the right things to measure to gauge your chronic inflammation. We've figured out the right baselines against which to judge whatever we're able to measure. And it could be that in the future you get an inflammation score that, that's similar to like your blood pressure reading or your cholesterol level or your blood sugar or something like that. Like the folks who are working on those programs today, like that's the future they're envisioning and trying to, you know, work towards, but the work is still in progress. Like we aren't there yet right now. A lot of, you know, with a lot of these, and you'll see them hawked sometimes in these on these social media feeds of like inflammation tests or something like that. Like, yes, we have gotten to the point now where it's if certain kind of proteins are associated with inflammation, but being able to interpret that information and saying whether this is good, whether this is bad, and what we do about it, that's much murkier as the science stands today. But trying to sharpen our understanding is the work that a lot of inflammation scientists are doing right now.

[Sally Helm]

Wow, that's so interesting. So it sounds like we're kind of in number soup world, where it's like we can measure some stuff, we can know what the proteins are and whether they're elevated, but we don't necessarily know what that.

[Dylan Scott]

I do think, like one of the, one of the things that a scientist said to me was like, I can see a future where like, measuring your inflammation is a way to get ahead of health problems that are sort of asymptomatic, at least for a long time, you know, before they get really serious. And so that, to your point, sounds super appealing to me. If it's like we can now have this indirect measure of things that are going wrong in your body before you ever sort of feel or notice them, you know, naturally going about your day like that seems like the ideal for early intervention, which we know usually leads to better outcomes, but we're still in the process of refining our understanding to be able to do that.

[Sally Helm]

So the hope is that this will become something almost like cholesterol or something where you can go in, you can measure it, you can get a number, and then you can take some sane and reasonable steps to address that number, and maybe that helps you prevent future health problems. Yes, that sounds great.

[Dylan Scott]

And I should say we do know things now that can help to improve your inflammation. It's just like the most basic health advice in the world.

[Sally Helm]

Cut through the fog for me. Like, what can I actually do? Do I need to wrap a turmeric supplement in CMOs and then intermittently fast while I only eat that? Like, what should I be doing here?

[Dylan Scott]

Look, it's the old standby Sally of eating a healthy diet, and especially eating a diet of whole foods, vegetables, fruits, things like that, exercise, stress, things like that, you know, that that can perturb your, your immune system.

[Sally Helm]

You know, it's funny, Dylan, that makes me think, do you think it's possible that we're causing more inflammation by stressing about inflammation?

[Dylan Scott]

I, I, it would make sense, yes, it makes some sense. I mean, I'm not a doctor, but yeah, I mean, there's it's this funny thing where it's like. I think that brings us back to the top of our conversation where it's like there are, you know, there are these tests, there are these measures that you can take to try to assess the state of your inflammation. And there's a lot of unscrupulous people who are willing to sell those to you and who are presenting more confidence about what you can understand from those measures than, like, actual scientists who work on this would say is appropriate. And so I do think just the whole universe of inflammation testing of inflammatory interventions or tonics like CMOs, that's, I think, what arises in this gap between we know there's something going on here and we're understanding it more by the day and, like, people wanting, like, an answer right now. And I think what these scientists worry about is, like, people either trying out these approaches that are unproven and may just be pointless and not lead to anything, or obviously, God forbid, like you have some kind of other health problems arise from whatever you're trying to do to address your inflammation. Like, this is, in a way, I think one of the more underappreciated stories about modern medicine in general, which is, like, our ability to detect things often outpaces our ability to interpret them. And that's true not just for inflammation, but for all kinds of things, because we have developed these amazing technologies that can, you know, detect things at the cellular or subcellular level. But, you know, you have to detect things before you can then kind of create a working understanding of what's going on with them. And that often, obviously takes a time and failure and refinement. And so we're in the middle. We're in the middle of that story right now where it's like people are kind of rushing in to provide answers that are beyond what science has actually learned and figured out yet.

[Sally Helm]

I thought what I was doing when I looked at all those inflammation tiktoks was seeking out a simple answer in a complicated world. And I thought Dylan would probably school me on that, like, remind me that there are no quick fixes here. And he did. But after our conversation, I also realized that another thing I was doing and that I think those tiktokers are actually doing is nurturing a very legitimate hope that chronic inflammation really does have a lot to teach us about why we sometimes feel so bad living in this very weird world that we've built. It's a mistake to think that one supplement will solve all our problems, but I think it's also a mistake to ignore the promise here. We just gotta make sure that our legitimate hope doesn't make us try to leap too quickly to the end of the story. We are actually still in the middle and we need to stick it out so that we can really earn whatever revelations are coming at the end. This episode was produced by me, Sally Helm. It was edited by Lissa Soep with help from Joanna Solotaroff Mixing and sound design from Christian Ayala fact checking from Melissa Hirsch, Meredith Hodnot runs the show, Amy Padula and Noam Hassenfeld are Curcumin and Piperine and Bird Pinkerton listened to the beak beeper as it started beeping more and more and then she noticed something off about the overhead lights. One of them was facing the wrong way.

[Narrator/Voiceover]

Foreign

[Sally Helm]

thanks as always to Brian Resnick for co creating the show along with Bird and Noam. If you have thoughts about the show, please send us an email. We are@ unexplainableox.com we really do read every single email and we love hearing from you, so please write to us. You can also leave us a review or a rating wherever you listen. Or you can just tell people in your life about the show. If you're into supporting the show and all of VOX in general, join our membership program. You can go to vox.commembers to sign up. Unexplainable is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network and we'll see you next time.