Podcast Summary: Unexplainable – "The Vagina Voyages"

Date: September 15, 2025
Host: Julia Longoria (Vox, Unexplainable)
Guest Host: Hilary Frank (Longest Shortest Time)
Guest Expert: Rachel Gross – Science Writer, Author of Vagina Obscura: An Anatomical Voyage

Overview

In this episode, Unexplainable shares an interview from "The Longest Shortest Time" podcast, with Hilary Frank speaking to science writer Rachel Gross. Rachel, author of Vagina Obscura: An Anatomical Voyage, discusses the deep gaps in scientific and medical knowledge about the vagina and associated anatomy. The conversation is an eye-opening exploration of what science knows—and doesn’t—about female reproductive organs, why these gaps persist, and the cultural, medical, and scientific misconceptions that surround them.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Early Experiences with Sex Ed & The Stigma of Not Knowing

• Rachel recalls her fourth grade sex ed where asking a basic question about periods led to laughter from adults, discouraging future curiosity.

  “I was left with this impression that like, sex stuff was something you should already know and if not, you shouldn’t ask about it.” (Rachel Gross, 01:41)

2. The Structure and Mystery of the Clitoris

• Clitoral Anatomy:
  Misconceptions abound; many—including medical professionals—think of the clitoris as just a “nub.” Rachel explains it's a large, bird-like organ mostly hidden beneath the surface, with a structure similar to the penis.

  “That’s kind of like the beak of the clitoris. It’s the tip of the iceberg… There’s also a shaft that’s internal. And then from there, it kind of splits off...two arms that kind of arc out into the pelvis...and two bulbs that hug the vagina underneath.” (Rachel Gross, 05:01)

• Scientific Neglect:
  Historical anatomical studies were often incomplete, and naming conventions centered on shame (e.g., Greek “to adion” = shame part; Dutch “shamlippen” = shame lips).

  “If medicine had anything to say about the clitoris, it was that it was this small pea-sized structure…the nub idea, and that it was inappropriate to talk about.” (Rachel Gross, 07:26)

• Only for Pleasure:
  The clitoris is unique in the body for serving only pleasure.

  “The clitoris is very nerve dense. However, fun fact, actually, there’s more like 10,280 nerves...” (Rachel Gross, 08:42–09:42)

  • Recent research revised the classic “8,000 nerves” figure, previously estimated based on cow studies (!).
• Cultural Myths About Orgasms:
  Freud’s claims about “vaginal” versus clitoral orgasms led to generations of women believing they were “broken” if they didn’t orgasm during penetrative sex.

  “…it made me pretty enraged…how many generations were given the impression that their bodies were uniquely broken…” (Rachel Gross, 10:52)

3. The Marie Bonaparte Story: Science, Sex, and Self-Experimentation

• Marie Bonaparte, Napoleon’s grandniece, became Freud’s patient and collaborator, obsessed with understanding her inability to orgasm. She pioneered research correlating clitoral position with sexual pleasure—interviewing and measuring hundreds of women.

  “She was also taking measurements of the distance between the clitoris and the urethra…She published these in a medical journal under a pen name—a male pen name.” (Rachel Gross, 14:58–15:22)

• Bonaparte underwent experimental surgeries to move her clitoris closer to her vagina, hoping to fix her “problem”—with disastrous results.

  “Spoiler. That did not turn out well for her. She had it done a few times and it was not good…” (Rachel Gross, 15:57–16:19)

4. The Vagina: Science, Molds, and Animal Surprises

• Defining the Vagina:
  A stretchy, muscular tube connecting the vulva and uterus, with the cervix as a “muscular donut” (Rachel’s memorable phrasing). (19:02–19:32)

• Penis-Centric Science:
  Scientific fascination has favored easily visible organs, leading to elaborate descriptions of animal penises—but little on vaginas.

  “There are penises that can taste, smell, and sing…Penises kind of just hang out in contrast to the more internal female apparatus.” (Rachel Gross reading, 19:57–20:41)

• Why Are Vaginas Understudied?

  “We put a rover on Mars. You’re telling me we really can’t study vaginas?” (Rachel Gross, 20:54)

• Patricia Brennan and Vagina ‘Lollipops’:
  Dr. Patti Brennan pioneered making latex molds of animal vaginas (initially snakes)—to map their complex, non-uniform interiors.

  “She invited me to make vagina lollipops with her on snakes. And so snakes have two vaginas… The result was this two headed lollipop...” (Rachel Gross, 23:11–24:58)

• Wild Facts: Vaginal Diversity

  • Dolphins: clitorises the size of AA batteries
  • Bonobos: clitorises up to 2.5 inches
  • Kangaroos: three vaginas—two for sperm, one for birthing (Joey ejection, 25:58)

5. The Human Vagina’s Unknowns: Medical Gaps

• Even for humans, basic anatomical diversity is poorly mapped. The only serious study—a tampon mold project—was cut short by lack of funding. Medical devices and surgeries for vaginas are still designed with little knowledge of anatomical variation.

  “...in their field, the vulva is basically like a small city in the Midwest and OB GYNs drive through it to get to their real destination, the uterus, where real medicine happens.” (Rachel Gross, 28:00)

• Vaginal microbiome: Still poorly understood, but linked to infections, STIs and reproductive health.
  (28:22)

6. Uterus and Ovaries: Powerhouses & Myths

• Functions Beyond Reproduction:
  Ovaries are hormone generators, impacting bones, blood, brain, and more.

  “They're these hormone powerhouses that help power almost every organ in the body for most of your life.” (Rachel Gross, 30:32)

• Wandering Womb & Hysteria:
  Myths from ancient Greece claimed the uterus wandered the body, causing illness and “female madness.” These lurked in medicine for centuries; unnecessary surgeries like ovary removal were common.

  “A very common surgery in the late 1800s was the removal of healthy ovaries in the thought that it would cure forms of insanity, including hysteria.” (Rachel Gross, 31:47)

• Endometriosis: For years, dismissed as “women’s pain” or hysteria. Extreme treatments—from forced pregnancy to hysterectomy—still get suggested.

  “Pregnancy is a bonkers prescription for any disease, but especially for endometriosis, where infertility is a known complication.” (Hilary Frank, 33:53)

7. Healthcare Misadventures: The Nuclear Option

• Both hosts share personal stories of doctors pushing drastic, misguided solutions for pelvic pain—including surgery, and, for Rachel, a memorable prescription:

  “When I was 29, I was once prescribed rat poison for my own vagina.” (Rachel Gross, 35:02)

  • Boric acid (used to treat persistent vaginal infections) led her to accidentally swallow it, resulting in an ER visit.

8. The High Cost of Ignorance & Hope for Change

• Scientific neglect means worse health, persistent myths (e.g., the “G spot” as a single button), and misunderstanding of pleasure and pain.

  “We’ve been studying female anatomy in a really narrow way …that really warps the kind of scientific knowledge you’re going to get and has actually resulted in worse health care for millions of people.” (Rachel Gross, 37:12–38:29)

• Rachel argues for a holistic, pleasure- and health-centered approach to pelvic anatomy, and for discarding “reproductive organ” as the sole descriptor—these organs influence overall health, mood, and wellbeing.

Notable Quotes

• On scientific priorities:

  “We put like a rover on Mars… you’re telling me we really can’t study vaginas?” (Rachel Gross, 20:54)

• On medical frustration:

  “The clitoris has 8,000 nerves and still isn’t as sensitive as a white man on the Internet.” (Quoted tweet by Rachel Gross, 08:42)

• On anatomical complexity:

  “She was kind of trying to find clitorises in almost every type of animal. So she was kind of, like, remapping the genital landscape of life on earth.” (Rachel Gross on Dr. Patti Brennan, 24:58)

• On misconceptions about female pleasure:

  “Every orgasm comes in some way from the clitoris, whether it’s like, internally or externally stimulated.” (Rachel Gross, 10:43)

• On enduring medical misogyny:

  “In their field, the vulva is basically like a small city in the Midwest—and OB/GYNs, they drive through it to get to their real destination, which is the uterus.” (Rachel Gross, 28:00)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Rachel’s Sex Ed Memory & Origins as a Science Writer: 01:36–02:45
• What is the Clitoris, Really?: 05:01–07:05
• Historical Scientific Neglect & Misconceptions: 07:26–09:42
• Freud, Marie Bonaparte, and the ‘Vaginal vs. Clitoral’ Orgasm Debate: 11:30–16:19
• The Vagina: Definition and Study Bias: 19:02–20:41
• Patricia Brennan’s Vagina ‘Lollipops’ and Kangaroo Fact: 23:11–25:58
• Medical Field’s Vagina Blindspots: 27:19–28:00
• Uterus, Ovaries, and Longstanding Myths: 30:32–31:47
• Stories of Medical Overreach & Rat Poison Incident: 35:02–36:28
• Call for More Research and Value Beyond Reproduction: 37:12–38:54

Memorable Moments

• Bird-like clitoris, snake vagina molds, and kangaroo triple vaginas established a mix of humor and scientific awe.
• Multiple personal stories showcased the emotional toll of misinformation, with both guests having faced dismissive or bizarre medical “solutions”.
• Rachel eating her “vagina rat poison” (boric acid) was both alarming and comically conveyed, demonstrating the real-world consequences of lack of research.

Conclusion

"The Vagina Voyages" is a spirited, deeply informative journey into the scientific, cultural, and personal mysteries surrounding the vagina, led by author Rachel Gross. The episode challenges the listener to confront their own assumptions, highlights the dire gaps in anatomical research, and issues a call for curiosity, compassion, and comprehensive study. It is part medical history, part cultural critique, and entirely unmissable for anyone interested in the untold science of half the human population.

For more on Rachel Gross’s work, including visual depictions of the “vagina and friends,” visit longestshortesttime.com.
Her book, Vagina Obscura, is available wherever books are sold.