Unexplainable – "This episode is haunted and spooky"

Airdate: October 27, 2025
Host: Bert Pinkerton (Vox)
Guests: Matthias Claassen (English Department, Aarhus University), Mark Anderson (Cognitive Science, Aarhus University)

Overview

This episode of Unexplainable delves into the scientific mystery of why people are drawn to recreational fear—why we voluntarily seek out terrifying experiences like horror movies, haunted houses, and rollercoasters. Host Bert Pinkerton speaks with Matthias Claassen and Mark Anderson, co-directors of the Recreational Fear Lab at Aarhus University, who study the paradox of why humans sometimes delight in being scared out of their wits. The conversation blends playful banter with cutting-edge psychological and cognitive science, examining what happens in our brains and bodies when we scare ourselves for fun, what purpose it might serve, and if horror experiences can actually help us navigate real-world fears.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Paradox of Liking What We Don't Like

• Opening question: Why do some people pay to be terrified?
• Evolutionary contradiction: Fleeing fear makes sense for survival, yet we sometimes run toward frightening experiences.
  • “Why is it that we like stuff that we don't like?” — Mark Anderson [02:45]
• Personal experience: Matthias loves horror, but also gets spooked; Mark doesn’t love horror but is scientifically intrigued.

2. The Origins of the Recreational Fear Lab

• Interdisciplinary collaboration:

  • Matthias (literature/horror expert) + Mark (experiment/stats expert) make for a uniquely equipped team.
  • “Mark is really good at designing experiments and doing statistical analysis. And I like Stephen King novels.” — Matthias Claassen [03:33]

• Recreational Fear:

  • Defines the spectrum: peekaboo, scary movies, haunted houses, tourism, roller coasters.
  • Despite being everywhere, this phenomenon is surprisingly understudied.

3. Studying Fear at the Haunted House

• Dystopia Haunted House: The team conducts studies in an abandoned fish factory turned haunted maze.
  • “Guests buy a ticket… they’re chased by pig men with chainsaws and killer clowns and zombies.” — Matthias Claassen [05:08]
  • Hostile-to-science environment: “Trying to mount a surveillance camera and then some clown, a literal clown actor, will come and throw fake blood on us.” — Matthias Claassen [06:52]
• Scientific value: The immersive scary setting lets them observe real fear in action, which would be unethical to create in a lab setting.

4. Finding the 'Goldilocks Zone' of Fear and Fun

• Study methodology: Pre- and post-experience surveys, heart rate monitors, video-taped reactions.

• Core finding: The relationship between fear and fun forms an upside-down U:

  • Too little fear = boring
  • Too much fear = unpleasant
  • Just the right amount = most fun
  • “There seems to be sort of a middle way where participants report the highest levels of enjoyment.” — Mark Anderson [08:08]

• Physiology matches psychology:

  • Enjoyment peaks with moderate deviation from normal heart rate—not too mild, not panic-level.
  • “We seem to like being a little bit out of our comfort zone or a little bit out of our normal state.” — Mark Anderson [08:46]

5. Why Seek Fear? Play, Learning, and Coping

• Hypothesis: Fear as Play

  • Experiencing fear in controlled, playful environments might help people learn how their bodies react, and how to handle fear.
  • Parallel to curiosity: People are most curious about things that are unpredictable but not overwhelming.
    • “Maybe when people seek out a little fun fear, they're actually trying to learn through play...” — Bert Pinkerton [13:36]
  • “Recreational fear exposure allows you to learn about fear and handle it in a sort of more optimal way, you could say.” — Mark Anderson [14:11]

• Suppression & Desensitization

  • The brain suppresses stimuli it can predict, so repeated scare experiences diminish in intensity—this may be training.

6. The Real World: Pandemic as a Case Study

• Horror surge during COVID-19: Box office for horror films soared as the pandemic began.

  • “People became really, really interested in watching horror movies all of a sudden.” — Mark Anderson [15:06]

• Research study: Surveyed participants about horror movie habits and psychological distress during the pandemic lockdown.

  • People who watched more horror (and “prepper” movies) reported feeling less distress and more “prepared.”
  • “They had lived through similar scenarios in their imagination hundreds of times. So for them, you know, it wasn't just science fiction in an abstract sense.” — Matthias Claassen [16:28]

• Self-selection caution: The effect may be correlational. Perhaps people who seek horror are less prone to stress, rather than horror making them resilient.

  • “We can't say based on this study that watching a scary movie makes you better at keeping your stress levels down during a pandemic.” — Matthias Claassen [17:20]

7. Therapeutic Possibilities: Fighting Fear with Fear

• Future plans:
  • Test if 'recreational fear therapy' (rollercoasters, climbing, scary-but-safe experiences) could help kids with anxiety.
  • “Could you do roller coaster therapy?... Could we fight fear with fear?” — Bert Pinkerton [18:14]

8. Imagination as Survival Tool

• Central philosophical point:
  • Imagination, stories, and fiction allow us to 'practice' dangerous or unusual scenarios, preparing us for reality.
  • “It seems to be the case that stories and fiction are vital instruments for navigating the world. For humans, we rely on the imagination. The imagination might be our coolest asset.” — Matthias Claassen [19:07]

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• “Why is it that we like stuff that we don't like?”
  — Mark Anderson [02:45]

• “Mark is really good at designing experiments and doing statistical analysis. And I like Stephen King novels.”
  — Matthias Claassen [03:33]

• “Trying to mount a surveillance camera and then some clown, a literal clown actor, will come and throw fake blood on us.”
  — Matthias Claassen [06:52]

• “There seems to be sort of a middle way where participants report the highest levels of enjoyment.”
  — Mark Anderson [08:08]

• “Maybe when people seek out a little fun fear, they're actually trying to learn through play...”
  — Bert Pinkerton [13:36]

• “We can't say based on this study that watching a scary movie makes you better at keeping your stress levels down during a pandemic.”
  — Matthias Claassen [17:20]

• “Could you do roller coaster therapy?... Could we fight fear with fear?”
  — Bert Pinkerton [18:14]

• “The imagination might be our coolest asset.”
  — Matthias Claassen [19:07]

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:06 – Matthias describes his fascination with fear, and the “paradox of horror.”
• 02:33 – Mark and Matthias form their interdisciplinary research team.
• 05:08 – The team describes setting up a haunted house study.
• 08:08 – Discovery of the optimal (not too much, not too little) fear zone.
• 13:36 – Hypothesis: Fear-seeking as a form of learning through play.
• 15:06 – COVID-19 pandemic leads to a horror movie boom; research begins on fear and psychological resilience.
• 17:20 – Cautions about correlation, not causation, in horror’s real-world effect.
• 18:14 – Exploring fear-based ‘therapy’ for anxiety.
• 19:07 – The case for imagination as a central tool for survival and adaptation.

Conclusion & Further Reading

The episode ends by inviting listeners to check out the Recreational Fear Lab’s published studies and research for further spooky (and scientifically credible) Halloween reading. The hosts emphasize that while we don’t have all the answers, asking why fear is fun can reveal new things about our minds, bodies, and even how to cope with a scary world.

For more: Check out the Recreational Fear Lab at Aarhus University for papers on topics such as Stephen King, The Exorcist, and the psychology of peekaboo.